Natalee Case Discussion #726 2/7 - 2/8/08

[Tylergal]

question for america:

why doesn't the us state departement put a serious travel warning out about aruba?
like they do for war zones, other corrupt regions in s-america and elsewhere.

i am saying this because then the dutch government has to respond.

the dutch politics have been very eerie quiet this week.
the whole county is confused maybe a bit in turmoil but we hear nothing from the parlaiment or government.

our prime minister will be very shocked if the us state departement put such a strong travel warning out.
(he likes to be bush his little puppy like tony blair was bush lap dog)

i've been emailling members of parlaiment but i am getting standard responses or responses like: it is a case for aruban OM back.

or did only de secretary of state of alabama put such a warning out?

Hi caesu,

Actually I want him in Holland where the Authorities would have to adhere to any extradition treaties in force. Aruba would just ignore a request for extradition. Holland has no choice but to comply.

We're legally better situated for an extradition with him there.

EXACTLY.

[cubbeegirl]

From GretaWire

R Producer Tim Silfies is in Aruba….timsilfies.jpg

….and he just emailed me this press release from the Public Prosecutor…pay particular attention to the remarks about the media and then POST YOUR THOUGHT about it right here…should the media put some more distance? or continue to report aggressively? What do you think?

press release

Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba ,

Havenstraat 2

Oranjestad, Aruba
To all media
From the Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date February 8, 2008
Pages 1

J.v.d.S. interrogated at Police Station in Rotterdam

This morning, between 10:00 – 12:30 hours (Netherlands time) the police interrogated J.v.d.S. at a police station in Rotterdam. J.v.d.S. was interrogated by police officers of the Aruban Police Department and the Netherlands National Police Department. His lawyer was present during the interrogation, which lasted about two hours.

During the interrogation J.v.d.S. indicated that during the conversations he had in the car he was under the influence of marihuana. Furthermore, he sticks to his statements made earlier during the investigation. He denies to have anything to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

The decision of the Court of Appeal of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba is crucial to the possibility of further interrogations of J.v.d.S.

As already stated on February 5, 2008, the Public Prosecutor’s Office lodged an appeal against the decision of the investigating judge to deny the re-detention of J.v.d.S.. The decision of the Court of Appeal is not expected until after the weekend.

Under the direction of the Public Prosecutor’s Office, the Aruban Police Department is still investigating this case. In the interest of the investigation, the Public Prosecutor’s Office appeals to the press to please refrain from a witch-hunt or private investigations or fishing expeditions (all this in the broadest sense of the word),

The Public Prosecutor’s Office doesn’t fail to notice that the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway draws a lot of interest from media and general public. However, this interest seems to be turning into a witch-hunt in which several persons are being harassed.

The Public Prosecutor’s Office regards this as not acceptable. In the first place, without any confirmation persons are being labeled as a suspect, and harassed as such. In the second place, journalistic investigations and the subsequent reporting thereof, at a time the investigative team is still busy trying to get an answer to many questions, can seriously harm the criminal investigation. Not only does it cause a lot of unrest, or may generate misinformation, it may also harm the outcome of the investigation itself, e.g. when witnesses questioned by the judge at trial can’t be sure if they witnessed something themselves or they know a fact from the media.

Without questioning the value of freedom of the press, it would be desirable if the press would act a little distantly for aforementioned reasons.

For any further information, you can call:

Why didn't they leave the number? I sure woulda called..

[Pita]

Joran:  Nee, hij heeft wel een arubaanse moeder no

Need a translation, I think he is saying the Boat friend is half aruban half dutch. We heard that before. My best guess is SG had the boat parked at the Marriot dock after his late afternoon-evening cruise. Joran was invited but declined to go on the boat party that night saying he had to be at C&C instead.

So the boat friend could be (1) SG or KG, (2) SC who was supposed to be watching the Tattoo off Marriot Beach, and (3) LVR, probably too far way to fit the timeline.

I think that there was a big invitation only party on the Tatoo that night due to
the Soul Beach Festival.  It was something like the Nassau Crab party.
 At least there was the name of another island in the name of the party.

I'm trying to catch up.  Not sure if this has been posted. 


Festival Stars
EN-TWINE BACK STAGE WITH JAMAICA ME KRAZY.  

Hey good looking ask them what’s cooking at Jamaica Me Krazy, why its so Crowded? It must be soul beach musical festival. The over crowded restaurant could not accommodate all their guest some were feed on a special charter on Aruba’s #1 party boat Tattoo, the crowd did not prevent the M.C. Doug E. Fresh and Janell Snowden of VH1, to visit this favorite spot as they sat down and had some Ackee and salt fish, curry shrimp, and some ital stewed vegetable rundown with Danny Wilson, the stars of the event; had to order take out for their favorite dishes. By popular demand the organizers had, Jamaica Me Krazy catered for all their line up, of their stars for the three day festival sound check and nightly performance, by comedians Mike Epps, Alex Thomas, Horace HB Sanders, Brandon Jackson, super stars Wyclef Jean, United WE Funk and the Dazz Band, Lakeside and Confunkshun, Boyz 11 Men and Grammy award singer Lauryn Hill.

http://www.jamaicamekrazy.com/soul_beach2005.html

[Frank]

This whole this is absurd.

They said nothing new, they had dropped the case!!!

The press release is only about not bothering them, they're working?

What?

Again, prosecutors working for the van der sloot defense team.

It was Joran who brought up the name, not the press.

Should devries not have done what he did?

He is chiding "private investigators."

The corruption continues....

[klaasend]

Joran:  Nee, hij heeft wel een arubaanse moeder no

Need a translation, I think he is saying the Boat friend is half aruban half dutch. We heard that before. My best guess is SG had the boat parked at the Marriot dock after his late afternoon-evening cruise. Joran was invited but declined to go on the boat party that night saying he had to be at C&C instead.

So the boat friend could be (1) SG or KG, (2) SC who was supposed to be watching the Tattoo off Marriot Beach, and (3) LVR, probably too far way to fit the timeline.

I think that there was a big invitation only party on the Tatoo that night due to
the Soul Beach Festival.  It was something like the Nassau Crab party.
 At least there was the name of another island in the name of the party.

I'm trying to catch up.  Not sure if this has been posted. 


Festival Stars
EN-TWINE BACK STAGE WITH JAMAICA ME KRAZY.  

Hey good looking ask them what’s cooking at Jamaica Me Krazy, why its so Crowded? It must be soul beach musical festival. The over crowded restaurant could not accommodate all their guest some were feed on a special charter on Aruba’s #1 party boat Tattoo, the crowd did not prevent the M.C. Doug E. Fresh and Janell Snowden of VH1, to visit this favorite spot as they sat down and had some Ackee and salt fish, curry shrimp, and some ital stewed vegetable rundown with Danny Wilson, the stars of the event; had to order take out for their favorite dishes. By popular demand the organizers had, Jamaica Me Krazy catered for all their line up, of their stars for the three day festival sound check and nightly performance, by comedians Mike Epps, Alex Thomas, Horace HB Sanders, Brandon Jackson, super stars Wyclef Jean, United WE Funk and the Dazz Band, Lakeside and Confunkshun, Boyz 11 Men and Grammy award singer Lauryn Hill.

http://www.jamaicamekrazy.com/soul_beach2005.html

I believe that was Saturday night and not Sunday night.

[Miss Scarlet]

question for america:

why doesn't the us state departement put a serious travel warning out about aruba?
like they do for war zones, other corrupt regions in s-america and elsewhere.

i am saying this because then the dutch government has to respond.

the dutch politics have been very eerie quiet this week.
the whole county is confused maybe a bit in turmoil but we hear nothing from the parlaiment or government.

our prime minister will be very shocked if the us state departement put such a strong travel warning out.
(he likes to be bush his little puppy like tony blair was bush lap dog)

i've been emailling members of parlaiment but i am getting standard responses or responses like: it is a case for aruban OM back.

or did only de secretary of state of alabama put such a warning out?

Hi caesu....my guess and it's an area I don't understand very well...politics-global.....the big picture

and murders in aruba are deemed suicides....so the 'murder' rate is very low....rape is called 'consensual' sex...women are given GHB so they never know for SURE exactly what happened or who did what.....

Aruba:

SAFETY AND SECURITY: There are no known extremist groups, areas of instability or organized crime on Aruba, although drug trafficking rings do operate on the island.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1153.html

serious warnings:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

the us state department should not rely on the crime statistics provided be the government of the countries.
of course they want to paint a nice picture. especially of economy is centered around tourism.

i am stating the obvious i know.

So drug trafficking is not considered organized crime in Aruba.  Unbelievable.  A small window into the mindset of that small country.  I guess they consider drug trafficking their 'crop.'  Nothing wrong with that, as far as they are concerned.

 

[EURobert]

I run all my search engines and this is what I come up with 

http://joran.ytmnd.com/

http://joranownshimself.ytmnd.com/

http://wutangster.ytmnd.com/  Warning!

http://inandoutof.ytmnd.com/

http://joranevilwoman.ytmnd.com/

http://healsoappearstohaveparkinsons.ytmnd.com/

Here's another funny one: http://www.jibjab.com/sendables/view/bIcGYKDMKWX9nWwtFVVaWbs8
It's a becoming a real hype now in the NL's: http://www.dumpert.nl/search/ALL/joran/

[Buckeye]

Someone posted the other day.....'ask Sambo' could this be Sambo?

Comment reporting officer: At 20.05 hours the assistent district attorney, inspector first class J.C. SAMBO informed the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT that he would be held for questioning at the police station in Noord on which the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT responded that he would resist the incarceration because it was a completely insane and absurd action.

Actually, someone on 24ora, had posted "ask Campo".  He was one of the HI night guards, named by the other night guard Solvert Reneska's  PV.

On your question if I was approached on Monday, May 30, 2005, in the night time hours, by a couple who were also staying in the Holiday Inn Hotel, with a story about two men and a drunk girl were on the sand north of the hotel stumbling or falling, answer I you no. Nobody approached me with this story.

The couple must specifically say who they had reported this to. You must ask this also of the other guards. I did not hear it from the other guards either. The guards names are  "Ramon", "Campo", “Arroyo", “Perez Ramirez”, "Stewart" and "Canchano“ had night shift at the Holiday Inn Hotel.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=365.0

[KYcat]

C on February 8th, 2008 1:05 pm
Correct me if I am wrong, but way back a long time ago, when Joran was in jail for an extended time, wasn’t there a monkey who stated that they could see Joran playing a game online, or logged into some account? The talk back then was how he could be logged in if he was in jail without computer or phone access? I even recall a screen shot showing him active. Could this PROVE that he had access to a cell phone while in jail? Does ANYONE remember this???

Did anyone else see this? 

Can it be found?

 

[Tylergal]

Adoronron, you have not weighed in on the latest as far as I have read.  What do you opine regards the tape, etc?

Tylergal,
I've just been pondering is all, and reading the posts.
Regards the tape - It showed the world the real joran, but not much fact. Although I believe the seizure happened, I'm not so sure it happened on the beach and I don't think it just happened without provocation ("We,ve done this 20 times before and nothing bad happened"). She could have been in a frenzied fight for her life, ("when we dropped her off at the HI she feel and hit her head"). A fight along with the substances in her could have brought on the seizure. For all I know the head trauma may have been the only cause of the seizure.
Other than that, I think joran if isn't whisked away and hidden very soon he will soon no longer be around. Not by the hands of one of the millions who watched the tape and saw the real joran for the first time, but by those who fear his mouth is going to cause the Aruban cover up to implode.

My opinion only.
I have some other opinions but they always seem to get ROBOTS out of joint. (we'll see if these few opinions I've just conveyed bring him back in here)
Ado

Something bad happened because they had to subdue her and those licks to the head will cause seizures.  Your thoughts are similar to mine.  I am not sure who the boatsman was but I think he was called by Paulus and he and Paulus took a comatose Natalee out to sea.  I believe there is someone who did it that we are completely unaware of, that has never been questioned but whose identity threatens Aruba worse than Joran's identity.

[Observer]

Friday, February 8, 2008
XVII. Support the Effort

Special Notice:
The dedicated ocean search for Natalee Holloway has been underway since mid-November, 2007. What began in Louisiana during mobilization now culminating in Aruba, the search has utilized some of the best search equipment and personnel in the world. To date, approximately 900 miles of sonar data has been collected covering a geographic area 80% the size of Aruba. The search has required a painstakingly slow approach which in the end leaves no stone unturned.

Although slow, this approach is extremely effective in marine search and recovery. Since the beginning, the search has been privately funded by Louis Schaefer Jr. of Underwater Expeditions who remarkably and gracefully accepted the financial burden when requested by Texas Equusearch and Natalee's parents. John Silvetti of Marine Surveys, Greg Landry of Offshore Innovative Solutions, Erik McGuire of Seatronics, along with Agiosat and Wilkens Weather Service came beside Louis to conduct this humanitarian effort. To put this search effort in financial perspective, an equivalent search conducted for industry would involve costs well exceeding several million dollars. This project has been conducted for about 35 cents on the dollar, with costs still exceeding a million dollars.

Although we have searched and ruled out an extensive portion of the original planned search area, a substantial portion of the high-probability area yet remains to be explored. Now, following a publicly confirmed admission that Natalee Holloway was disposed at sea, we are confident that completing the focused search area will bring closure. We therefore formally invite and request anyone who this humanitarian effort has touched to get involved and to help support the remaining search efforts. Donations are being handled by Texas Equusearch, a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization. Please come beside those who have already given so much to help ensure a proper funeral in Alabama for Natalee Holloway. Please make all donations marked as: "Holloway search".

To learn more about Texas Equusearch and to help support the search for Natalee Holloway, check out: http://www.texasequusearch.org/donate.html

Texas EquuSearch Office:
4013 FM 517, Suite B
Dickinson, Texas 77539
P. O. Box 395, Dickinson, Texas 77539

Office: (281) 309-9500
Fax: (281) 534-6719
Toll Free: (877) 270-9500
Email: donate@texasequusearch.org

Posted by Kyle Kingman at 4:44 PM

[crazybabyborg]

excerpt:
Under the direction of the Public Prosecutor’s Office, the Aruban Police Department is still investigating this case. In the interest of the investigation, the Public Prosecutor’s Office appeals to the press to please refrain from a witch-hunt or private investigations or fishing expeditions (all this in the broadest sense of the word),
The Public Prosecutor’s Office doesn’t fail to notice that the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway draws a lot of interest from media and general public. However, this interest seems to be turning into a witch-hunt in which several persons are being harassed.

The Public Prosecutor’s Office regards this as not acceptable. In the first place, without any confirmation persons are being labeled as a suspect, and harassed as such. In the second place, journalistic investigations and the subsequent reporting thereof, at a time the investigative team is still busy trying to get an answer to many questions, can seriously harm the criminal investigation. Not only does it cause a lot of unrest, or may generate misinformation, it may also harm the outcome of the investigation itself, e.g. when witnesses questioned by the judge at trial can’t be sure if they witnessed something themselves or they know a fact from the media.

Without questioning the value of freedom of the press, it would be desirable if the press would act a little distantly for aforementioned reasons.
********************************************************
Oh REALLY???
If everyone had "refrained" from journalistic investigations, this case would be exactly where it was at the end of December: C-L-O-S-E-D!!! I contend that the REAL reason the Public Prosecutor's Office is begging restraint from further journalistic investigation is because it's getting hard as crap to sweep the growing pile of SH*T under the rug and out of sight!

They find the "witch hunt" UNACCEPTABLE???  EVERY FAIR-MINDED PERSON ON THIS PLANET FINDS THEIR INVESTIGATION AND LEGAL RULINGS UNACCEPTABLE! So, stick THAT where the sun don't shine and TWIRL!!!

[Pita]

Does anyone know how the bank teller who waited on Paulus died?  Just reading some old stuff and she couldn't be called to testify in 2005 because she died two weeks after Paulus had gone to the bank, re: Joran's winnings from night before.  Her name was Rita Dj------???  Just curious.

Sorry guys...I am still catching up. This has prob. already been posted.
http://www.mementomori.net/05148.html


Same name as the Sloot maid, my spelling is terrible, but something like Djikoff. But wasn't she Ruth? I believe in her fifties and died in the Netherlands. I just read about her this morning in Paulus PVs. Do you have the date she died? His PV's start on 6/18 and the others may be 6/23 and 6/24.   TIA

Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann???   06/18/05

Ruth Gisela Dijkhoff-Holtmann
17 May 1955 - 18 Jun 2005
Funeral took place in Germany

http://www.mementomori.net/05148.html

[caesu]

FYI

the harshest sentence one can get under dutch law is a prison sentence combined with TBS
TBS is could mean in theory a life sentence.
a person gets TBS if he as diagnosed as a danger to society.

from time to time he will be re-diagnosed and if the danger to society fear has disappeared he can be released.

as you expect TBS goes wrong (recently very often, but even more recently it is getting better) sometimes and rapist, child molester get released and cause havoc.

i can't find much about it in english.

in my opinion Joran is a very large danger to society. so i would give him TBS.

16. The system operates roughly as follows. When a person accused of a serious offence is thought to have been suffering from some form of defective development and/or pathological disturbance of mind at the time of the alleged crime such that he cannot be regarded as wholly responsible for that crime, if proved, a judge can request an assessment of his mental condition to be carried out. The purpose of this assessment is, first, to assess whether the person has a disorder, and to what extent he can be held responsible for his actions; and, second, if a disorder is present, how strongly that disorder is linked to the offence. This leads to a recommendation as to the degree of responsibility the defendand should bear for the crime, if proved, on a sliding scale from "fully responsible" to "not responsible", and a judgement as to whether this person would be likely to commit another crime on the basis of diminished responsibility.

17. When a person is found to have diminished responsibility and to be dangerous a TBS order (roughly equivalent to a "hospital order") may be ordered. Assuming the defendant is found guilty he is sentenced to a particular term, depending on the nature of the offence and the degree to which he is regarded as responsible, and to a TBS order. After serving his sentence he is then sent to be assessed at the Meijers Institute in Utrecht, which determines which of the TBS clinics he should be treated at. He then goes on to a clinic. The staff in TBS Clinics are predominantly social therapists rather than trained psychiatric nurses, reflecting the emphasis on "resocializing" the TBS patient.

18. The TBS order is reviewed every two years, if possible by the same judge who originally imposed the TBS order. The judge can order release from the order against the hospital's advice. In principle a TBS order can last for life, although the average is around five or six years.

http://www.archive.official-documents.co.uk/document/cm41/4194/ash-ap8.htm
 

[snoopy]

WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED!!  NEVER!!

"WE STAND WITH THE GIRL"

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE

[Observer]

Dutch PM Jan Peter Balkenende will speak with Oduber about the Holloway case when he will visit the island soon.

He says he can not interfere in a case that lays in the hands of judges, but he will discuss the matter with Oduber.

This is the first time our PM speaks about the case after the PdV show. He says he found the show bizar, emotional and surreal.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3252303/_Balkenende_praat_over_zaak-Holloway__.html

[/quote]

Joran persona non grata on Aruba. Secretary Croes says Joran is no longer welcome on the island anymore.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3251966/__Joran_persona_non_grata_op_Aruba___.html?p=4,1

[snoopy]

Here's a thought.......Why doesn't Aruba help fund the search for Natalee.

I personally wouldn't want a stinkin dime from them.  They can keep their blood money.

My check is on the way.

[klaasend]

C on February 8th, 2008 1:05 pm
Correct me if I am wrong, but way back a long time ago, when Joran was in jail for an extended time, wasn’t there a monkey who stated that they could see Joran playing a game online, or logged into some account? The talk back then was how he could be logged in if he was in jail without computer or phone access? I even recall a screen shot showing him active. Could this PROVE that he had access to a cell phone while in jail? Does ANYONE remember this???

Did anyone else see this? 

Can it be found?

 

We have it and it was posted yesterday.  Let me look for it.

[Ono]

Arubans,

Perhaps you will read this, perhaps not; but if you should, please try to understand that as this case began, many Arubans were invited to post here. 

As time passed, it was obvious those posters were here to misinform.  They deceived us and they mocked Natalee, her family and SM.  They hacked our computers.  They called us vile names, made a mockery of your government, not dissimilar to the way Joran speaks of Natalee, only because Natalee is unable to defend herself and they had hoped their concerted efforts would impede her family's efforts to seek justice and speak the truth. 

Anita, it was your own “countrymen” who interjected the name of Lorenzo and spread the rumors of Paulus’ paternity of Lorenzo to keep the light of guilt off Joran vanderSloot.  If Lorenzo could or would take the fall, then your prodigal son, Joran, would be off the hook.  If I recall correctly, the first time I heard about Lorenzo's relationship was from Arubagirl.
 
Natalee was everybody’s girl next door, Beth was everyone’s mom.  Beth went to Aruba with the intention of finding her daughter and taking her home.  Instead of helping, you, the Arubans held demonstrations against her, threatened her life, spat in her food, and your own ALE threatened her with arrest.

We do not hear praise from the average Aruban; the only good words have come from Jossy, who your competitive media have continued to denigrate.  We have tried to love Aruba, yet you continued to send out your troglodytes like Julia Renfro, Ruben Trappenberg, Charles Croes, Gerald Dompig, vanderStratten, Arleen Schipper, who destroyed any goodwill Jossy had built, through lies and misrepresentations via Bon Dia, Aruba Today, Amoges, etc.  These are the people who represented Aruba, so we assumed since AHATA, ALE, the justice ministry, etc., are your representatives, that you chose to spit in the face of justice and the Americans who invested our hard-earned dollars to build Aruba out of the ruins of a gold rush, a desert filled with cactus, forlorn animals and a sinking oil industry (which Chavez is eyeing as his own as he further encroaches on your shores). 

Yes, it was American money that made your island a vacation paradise, but it was your own people from Bon Dia, Aruba Today, ALE and Setar and particularly AHATA, etc., in conjunction with vanderSloot and his cronies who chose to destroy your island.  Truth would have served much better than the plethora of lies meant to cover up the truth.  Does that spell corrupt? C-o-r-r-u-p-t.  It was not Scared Monkeys, but the likes of the odious Julia characters including Renfro, Scubajap, Mark Purcell, Tito Lacle, Ruben Trappenberg, Arleen Schippers whose interest were the almighty dollar, not the welfare of your island or the integrity of Aruba. 

It is your court/legal systems under the direction of Rudy Croes and Mr. Oduber who continued to obscure and obfuscate, rather than take measures to see that Natalee receives justice, the reason the cruise ships limited their stopovers and American dollars started going to Bahamas, Bermuda, Mexico, Virgin Islands and our own beautiful Florida and Alabama gulf shores. How your justice system handles these latest revelations will determine how, when and if the American dollar will return to Aruba.     

We stretched our hand across the water long before the 21st century to help Aruba.  You slapped our hands when we asked for little, only to be fair and just with our tourists and our countrymen.

If justice is not forthcoming, it might be time for you to get busy boarding up your business before the looter of Venezuela comes knocking.  I already hear footsteps, do you?

The happiness of every country depends upon the character of its people, rather than the form of its government.


 

Bump.

[Kermit]

BIRTHDAYS
Joran van der Sloot born August 6, 1987 in Arnhem, HOlland
Paul A.P.J. van der Sloot, born  02/15/52 in Netherlands
Anita van der Sloot: birthday: 08/19/56
Val (15)in 2005  born 1990 in Netherlands
Sebastian van der Sloot Feb. 6, 1995
speaks of his youngest brothers that was born in 1995 and a true Aruban. He is a sweetheart according to Joran
(pg. 5 Joran's book)