Natalee Case Discussion #736 2/27 - 2/29/08

[Bladerunner]

Are these the latest developments:

Persistance is out of funds and search will end in a few days?

The underwater photos were authentic but there were no remains inside the cage?

Joran is either in hiding or hospitalized?

Mos is doing nothing but PR?

No breaks in the case since PDV show?

That's about the gist of it.

1. I'm believing God will provide the funds
2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's
3. Yes
4.Yes
5. There could be,we just don't know about them,yet..

2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's

Well....now that's just not possible.  Did not the esteemed Hans Mos tell us that all killings in Aruba were solved?  Oops, on second thought, maybe you are right.  It's probably just some fool who didn't have the guts to gut himelf and set itself on fire that killed himself by crawling into a crab trap and dropping himself into the ocean.

Well, at the risk of making Ocean Explorer angry ( no disrespect intended - I GREATLY admire, respect, and appreciate this unbelievable crew, et al) -- my own opinion is that they INTENDED for this discovery to remain "under wraps" until all "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed. They shared the evidence with Dave/Robin -- and it got distributed BEFORE they were ready. I for one THINK the contents of that cage are exactly what we are all hoping for.

If this were true wreck,then why would they still be accepting donations to continue looking?Why would Tim Miller say calling Dave and Beth back to tell them no it wasn't what they were looking for,the hardest call he ever had to make?These are two of the haunting questions though I must admit that there was a very troublesome spot for me in the Dateline piece that I still don't understand.When the divers went down and looked in,they immediatly put two thumbs down to the camera.Ok,they saw in there what we saw later,correct?So,why the thumbs down?Why not thumbs up?We can see the remains of a body in there which is clear on the still photo's.Wasn't there also an Aruban diver down there with a member of the Persistence? Questions and more questions...

My opinion is that they are "continuing" to look until 100% DNA verification test is complete and also (my conjecture only) is to continue to try to get those involved to "trip up." They are looking to convict the "guilty" parties and still lack the final slam dunk evidence. If they report their findings now -- they may lose that "upper hand."  I've felt this way for about a week and a half.

I realize they are not going to be happy with my conjecture -- but it is only that -- my conjecture at this point.

Your conjecture is just as good as anyone elses wreck!!! I for one hope you are right as it does seem plausible...Thanks for answering me..

There is something really odd and strange about this entire underwater camera activity, dateline, the pics, their distribution and now the "anger" that they are out in the public domain. If Persistence didn't want ANY images of the search mission revealed why have a Dateline special at all? And if they had something back then couldn't they have legally blocked Dateline from airing "evidence" rel,ated to the case now?  So confusing!

[Tater]

Are these the latest developments:

Persistance is out of funds and search will end in a few days?

The underwater photos were authentic but there were no remains inside the cage?

Joran is either in hiding or hospitalized?

Mos is doing nothing but PR?

No breaks in the case since PDV show?

That's about the gist of it.

1. I'm believing God will provide the funds
2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's
3. Yes
4.Yes
5. There could be,we just don't know about them,yet..

2. I believe there were remains,just not Natalee's

Well....now that's just not possible.  Did not the esteemed Hans Mos tell us that all killings in Aruba were solved?  Oops, on second thought, maybe you are right.  It's probably just some fool who didn't have the guts to gut himelf and set itself on fire that killed himself by crawling into a crab trap and dropping himself into the ocean.

Well, at the risk of making Ocean Explorer angry ( no disrespect intended - I GREATLY admire, respect, and appreciate this unbelievable crew, et al) -- my own opinion is that they INTENDED for this discovery to remain "under wraps" until all "i's" are dotted and "t's" crossed. They shared the evidence with Dave/Robin -- and it got distributed BEFORE they were ready. I for one THINK the contents of that cage are exactly what we are all hoping for.

If this were true wreck,then why would they still be accepting donations to continue looking?Why would Tim Miller say calling Dave and Beth back to tell them no it wasn't what they were looking for,the hardest call he ever had to make?These are two of the haunting questions though I must admit that there was a very troublesome spot for me in the Dateline piece that I still don't understand.When the divers went down and looked in,they immediatly put two thumbs down to the camera.Ok,they saw in there what we saw later,correct?So,why the thumbs down?Why not thumbs up?We can see the remains of a body in there which is clear on the still photo's.Wasn't there also an Aruban diver down there with a member of the Persistence? Questions and more questions...

My opinion is that they are "continuing" to look until 100% DNA verification test is complete and also (my conjecture only) is to continue to try to get those involved to "trip up." They are looking to convict the "guilty" parties and still lack the final slam dunk evidence. If they report their findings now -- they may lose that "upper hand."  I've felt this way for about a week and a half.

I realize they are not going to be happy with my conjecture -- but it is only that -- my conjecture at this point.

Your conjecture is just as good as anyone elses wreck!!! I for one hope you are right as it does seem plausible...Thanks for answering me..

There is something really odd and strange about this entire underwater camera activity, dateline, the pics, their distribution and now the "anger" that they are out in the public domain. If Persistence didn't want ANY images of the search mission revealed why have a Dateline special at all? And if they had something back then couldn't they have legally blocked Dateline from airing "evidence" rel,ated to the case now?  So confusing!

I hear ya loud and clear!!!

[Tater]

FYI - Dugga has temporarily turned off avatars again.  Seems the server was getting overloaded.  Wonder if there's some kind of breaking news we aren't aware of?

And here I was thinking I got thrown out for asking to many questions...

[Spock]

Quick Note:

Cut Persistance a break. The have their opinions based on a "fresh look" and experiences we dont have. If they say ALE is helpful, I believe them. If they say, the internet hurt the case in some ways, ok, I can agree with that. These people are our friends and allies, respect their opinions and move on. Put the Persistance debate aside and lets talk about Natalee.

[Dihannah1]

Fellow Primates,

I don't post much.  Just try to stay out of the way.  Lately, I should say 'fray.'  Anyway, I feel the need to speak. 

Red, much respect and admiration for all you have done for Natalee, her family, their plight.  Indeed you know so much more than any of us here, including those on the Persistence.  Likewise, there are people, good people, on that ship that no doubt know things you do not know.  In fact, there is good reason for each to know aspects of this case the other party is not privy to.  That is not cause for attack.  The Persistence has spent alot of money in their quest for answers, just as you have, as well as many others.  Some have given only time, for that is all they have.  Some have given only money because they have no extra time.  Some have only offered prayers, for that is all they can currently provide.  The respective gifts each have brought are no less valuable than the gifts others have contributed.  God has a master plan.  Will we all get to see it in our lifetime?  We don't know that yet.  But He brought us all together, each with our own unique contributions, for His purpose.  Let's not get down and dirty and feel like what one has done is more important than what someone else has done.  Yes, the internet has been instrumental in keeping this case on the forefront, but it is also a double edged sword that has hindered aspects of it too.  No doubt Beth has had to keep from throwing up when she has had to cozy up to some of the press to keep the story out there.  We do what we have to.

OceanExplorer, you as well as everyone on the Persistence are invaluable to say the very least.  Men willing to donate time, services, boats, personal fortunes, my goodness - the list is endless.  For more than a year I prayed for someone to come forward to do, to provide, what each of you have willingly offered.  Again, God has brought us all together for his purpose.  While I am thrilled Dateline had their show, I had hoped nothing would have been televised until after y'all were done with God's work and had safely returned home.  But He apparently had another plan.  We still don't know that plan, but it is exciting to see his handiwork. 

Clearly Aruba has done some terrible things, but I don't think we should make blanket assumptions that everyone on the island is vile.  Evil comes in all sizes, shapes and colors.  Evil does not discriminate. 

As for racism, it is a concept I have never been able to wrap my head around.  I have never been able to understand it.  I have never been able to be a party to it.  We all want and have the same goals for our families, our loved ones.  We want and need safety, security, housing, clothes, food, education, etc.  Please don't ever look at the color of one's skin and decide their intentions based on shade, or say, "remember when" . . . just try to look at people like a pack of Juicy Fruit gum.  All those colorful sticks and flavors happily wrapped in one package and lo and behold - they all taste great!

I don't know any of you personally, but I can honestly say that because God loves me and Christ died for me and has forgiven me, I love all of you.  No exceptions!

WOW!  Very powerful message Scarlett!  You just put into words, what I was unable to write myself so eloquently!   EVERY word you wrote is 100% correct in my mind and I thank you for that!    We ALL are important in our own ways and no better, nor worse than another.  Let's stick with our joint purpose!  NATALEE!

[Tater]

Quick Note:

Cut Persistance a break. The have their opinions based on a "fresh look" and experiences we dont have. If they say ALE is helpful, I believe them. If they say, the internet hurt the case in some ways, ok, I can agree with that. These people are our friends and allies, respect their opinions and move on. Put the Persistance debate aside and lets talk about Natalee.

I think somehow the two go together Spock..I'm certainly not dissing the Persistence in any way shape or form..

[Lala'sMom]

Hall Monitor here...let's all calm down and get back to business.  Natalee needs us right now to be united more than ever.  One thing I can say about the monkeys is they may get mad and sulk off into a corner but there is one shining light guiding us to the end and it is Natalee.  Not only are we like family in here, sometimes we all get irritated...I was irritated the other night and then a few weeks ago someone was irritated with me about Shango.  Heck!  If I can tolerate some of the hate spewed my way over Shango and Simian and still be in that thread day in and day out all the while being laughed at...then we can all get tougher skins and carry on. 

There are good people in Aruba...I would never have said that 3 months ago...I felt there was no one that cared about anything but tourism dollars and the fun that comes with the party happy island.  That is until I met a person named Capslockwizard.  Yes, I was skeptical, just ask Klaas.  Even through my apparent skepticsim and apprehension that things were taking a wrong turn...I kept on listening to him.  I kept on thinking...could this be a break...could this be an answered prayer? 

I stuck with it...although we still have few answers I am making connections to all those dots I have chased for over 2 years.  Not clear connections, but in here what is clear?  But little by little I have come to see there are good people  in Aruba...people that given the chance will do the right thing.  Fear is the word that permeates the culture there...fear of retribution...I understand it more than ever and I am so skeptical at times I want to slap myself. 

I also, believe there are good Dutch people too.  They have families and just want the best for them and their world..just as we do here in America.  Cultural differences are hard to overcome...some impossible and have to remain that way.  Also, let's not forget the times suspicions have surfaced concerning many things on Aruba.  I know there are some new people that do not understand this and I see no way to get them up to speed at this moment.  I guess what I am asking is...let's not lose sight of the reason we are here....that is what is most important about all of us that reach from one corner of the earth to the other...Natalee Holloway...who is standing with me?

[Nut44x4]

I know anything is possible in this case.............

Does anyone entertain the fact that Aruba would send a dive team into water (if that is where Natalee was originally placed) to get her body for purposes of making sure it would not be found by anyone, after knowing that water searches were going to be conducted?

Just wondering as nothing would surprise me in this case.........

I know I am way behind today, but had to say ....yes, this thought crossed my mind before the Persistence ever left stateside.

[Tater]

I've been standing there all along Lala'sMom ..

[sb]

I agree with the poster who said some pages back that IF Natalee's remains had been found, there would not be such a sense of urgency about new funding and the like. The job is NOT yet done, but obviously they are on to something that makes it imperative that they keep on doing the search.

BTW, if that IS a body in the cage, and it isn't Natalee... who is it?

Like ala_gunslinger said, the Persistence may have found the dumping ground for all the silenced ones of Aruba. Joran may not be the only one who is stressed out right now, maybe Rudy Croes will be NEXT to be signed in to a place where he can get "help" LOL.

[Tater]

I know anything is possible in this case.............

Does anyone entertain the fact that Aruba would send a dive team into water (if that is where Natalee was originally placed) to get her body for purposes of making sure it would not be found by anyone, after knowing that water searches were going to be conducted?

Just wondering as nothing would surprise me in this case.........

I know I am way behind today, but had to say ....yes, this thought crossed my mind before the Persistence ever left stateside.

I would say no,not after this amount of time.They would have needed the equipment to locate her and I don't think they have it.Just my opinion of course..

[hotping]

I'm standing with You Lala's! I Stand with the Girl Also! 

[Rob]

BTW, if that IS a body in the cage, and it isn't Natalee... who is it?

that really is the question, isn't it?

Hi sb 

[Rooscrew]

Lala's~
I've been and I always will continue to stand with you. I will always stand with the girl, Natalee!! May God Bless Beth, Dave, Jug, Matt and the rest of their family & friends!!

Destiny & Hotshot~
Please don't lurk.
We need each and every monkey for Natalee. We've been here over 2 1/2 years and there's no backing us down. We've got to continue to fight for Truth & Justice for Natalee, we are her voice. We've got to not let the enemies of Beth/Natalee tear us apart. We are stronger when we are fighting together instead of against each other. Love has no colors, no race, it's unconditional.

Red & Klaas~
YOU ROCK!!!!   Thanks to both of you for all you've done!!!!  MOO

Roos~

[Magnolia]

Hall Monitor here...let's all calm down and get back to business.  Natalee needs us right now to be united more than ever.  One thing I can say about the monkeys is they may get mad and sulk off into a corner but there is one shining light guiding us to the end and it is Natalee.  Not only are we like family in here, sometimes we all get irritated...I was irritated the other night and then a few weeks ago someone was irritated with me about Shango.  Heck!  If I can tolerate some of the hate spewed my way over Shango and Simian and still be in that thread day in and day out all the while being laughed at...then we can all get tougher skins and carry on. 

There are good people in Aruba...I would never have said that 3 months ago...I felt there was no one that cared about anything but tourism dollars and the fun that comes with the party happy island.  That is until I met a person named Capslockwizard.  Yes, I was skeptical, just ask Klaas.  Even through my apparent skepticsim and apprehension that things were taking a wrong turn...I kept on listening to him.  I kept on thinking...could this be a break...could this be an answered prayer? 

I stuck with it...although we still have few answers I am making connections to all those dots I have chased for over 2 years.  Not clear connections, but in here what is clear?  But little by little I have come to see there are good people  in Aruba...people that given the chance will do the right thing.  Fear is the word that permeates the culture there...fear of retribution...I understand it more than ever and I am so skeptical at times I want to slap myself. 

I also, believe there are good Dutch people too.  They have families and just want the best for them and their world..just as we do here in America.  Cultural differences are hard to overcome...some impossible and have to remain that way.  Also, let's not forget the times suspicions have surfaced concerning many things on Aruba.  I know there are some new people that do not understand this and I see no way to get them up to speed at this moment.  I guess what I am asking is...let's not lose sight of the reason we are here....that is what is most important about all of us that reach from one corner of the earth to the other...Natalee Holloway...who is standing with me?

Me.

[Peaches]

I've been reading here during my lunch break at work, trying to catch up on any news in the case. There seems to be a lot of discussion today about race and national origin. IMO, none of that really matters. There are good people and bad people of every race, religion, national origin, etc. When you think about it, the body is sort of like clothes for the soul, and each individual soul is unique. Let's stop beating up each other over the stuff that no one can change and concentrate on the stuff that people can do something about - like finding justice for Natalee and her family.

Amen and Amen!

Smoochies to you BT - you can always say what I can't find words for.

I stand with the girl.  Justice for Natalee!!!!!!!!

Amen.  Me too.

[Magnolia]

BTW, if that IS a body in the cage, and it isn't Natalee... who is it?

that really is the question, isn't it?

Hi sb 

I believe that is why Mos made his little statement yesterday or the day before.....
That all murder's in Aruba in the last five years had been solved.
He was not defending the Police Dept he was accounting for bodies.

[Destiny]

Standing with the Girl....and Lala's

[klaasend]

Hall Monitor here...let's all calm down and get back to business.  Natalee needs us right now to be united more than ever.  One thing I can say about the monkeys is they may get mad and sulk off into a corner but there is one shining light guiding us to the end and it is Natalee.  Not only are we like family in here, sometimes we all get irritated...I was irritated the other night and then a few weeks ago someone was irritated with me about Shango.  Heck!  If I can tolerate some of the hate spewed my way over Shango and Simian and still be in that thread day in and day out all the while being laughed at...then we can all get tougher skins and carry on. 

There are good people in Aruba...I would never have said that 3 months ago...I felt there was no one that cared about anything but tourism dollars and the fun that comes with the party happy island.  That is until I met a person named Capslockwizard.  Yes, I was skeptical, just ask Klaas.  Even through my apparent skepticsim and apprehension that things were taking a wrong turn...I kept on listening to him.  I kept on thinking...could this be a break...could this be an answered prayer? 

I stuck with it...although we still have few answers I am making connections to all those dots I have chased for over 2 years.  Not clear connections, but in here what is clear?  But little by little I have come to see there are good people  in Aruba...people that given the chance will do the right thing.  Fear is the word that permeates the culture there...fear of retribution...I understand it more than ever and I am so skeptical at times I want to slap myself. 

I also, believe there are good Dutch people too.  They have families and just want the best for them and their world..just as we do here in America.  Cultural differences are hard to overcome...some impossible and have to remain that way.  Also, let's not forget the times suspicions have surfaced concerning many things on Aruba.  I know there are some new people that do not understand this and I see no way to get them up to speed at this moment.  I guess what I am asking is...let's not lose sight of the reason we are here....that is what is most important about all of us that reach from one corner of the earth to the other...Natalee Holloway...who is standing with me?

Just got back from store to read this.....

THANK YOU!  Post of the day, IMO

[Destiny]

Lala's~
I've been and I always will continue to stand with you. I will always stand with the girl, Natalee!! May God Bless Beth, Dave, Jug, Matt and the rest of their family & friends!!

Destiny & Hotshot~
Please don't lurk.
We need each and every monkey for Natalee. We've been here over 2 1/2 years and there's no backing us down. We've got to continue to fight for Truth & Justice for Natalee, we are her voice. We've got to not let the enemies of Beth/Natalee tear us apart. We are stronger when we are fighting together instead of against each other. Love has no colors, no race, it's unconditional.

Red & Klaas~
YOU ROCK!!!!   Thanks to both of you for all you've done!!!!  MOO

Roos~

Not lurking....some pretty smart Monkeys *showed me the light*...bad grammer I know...slaps own paw...