Natalee Case Discussion #755 5/31 - 6/5/08

[Blue Moon]

Posted at BFN:

Controversial post ahead!

I was reading again through the transcript of the car conversations between Joran and Patrick (on:
http://hollowaycase.com/archive/media/devriestape.htm)

Maybe this has been posted before, but I suddenly got the very strong feeling that Joran is possibly schizophrenic and this "Daury" character is an imaginary friend who acts as his (bad) conscience (ref. John Nash in the movie A Beautiful mind).

Just try to read the transcript with this in mind and I think you'll be surprised. Could it be that Joran justifies his acts by having an alter ego that tells him what to do in times of trouble and also acts as the referee who decides whether his actions are right or wrong?

If this is the case, then all the conversations between Joran and "Daury" were just happening in his own head. He was basically talking to himself (about f.i. "you need to go to school" and "yes, she's really dead" and "that evening we talked at my house", etc.). The whole boat disposal scenario could therefore be a complete bogus. Joran might have disposed off the body all by himself (e.g. by burying her), but cleverly shifted the disposal accountability towards his alter ego.

This also could imply that all the other events he describes, i.e. those without Daury being present, are a bit closer to the truth (i.e. that he walked home, that he did throw away his shoes, that K2 are indeed innocent and were slickly seduced into the HI-lie).

Quite possible BUT the Kalpoes are still not totally off the hook.  They helped kidnap her and possibly helped drug her.  (MO)  They will never get a pass from me on there actions in all this.  Cowards knew how crazy that guy was and they walk away leaving an innocent girl with him.  Don't by it.  They were involved in a gang rape and then something  "bad happened". (MO)

[bleachedblack]

Not sure about the schizophrenia. Maybe what you are describing is closer to a multiple personality disorder? ...but I will say this, it is a proven medical fact that psychological illness is exacerbated by drinking alcohol and/or taking drugs.  Joran needs to lay off the weed.

[Observer]

Who was the AG in Aruba in 2002?
----------------------------
20 december 2002



APPOINTMENTS COMMON COURT OF THE DUTCH ANTILLES AND ARUBA


The Rijksministerraad has on a proposal by Minister Remkes of the Interior and Kingdom agreed to a two appointments.


Mr. mr G.E.M. Polkamp (52) is nominated for appointment as a member of the Common Court of Justice of the Dutch Antilles and Aruba. Currently, Mr Polkamp alternate member of the Court. The appointment is effective from January 1, 2003.

Mr. mr P.A.P.J. van der Sloot (50) is nominated for appointment as alternate member of the Common Court of Justice of the Dutch Antilles and Aruba. Mr. van der Sloot now works as Private Secretary to the Attorney-General of Aruba. The appointment is effective from January 1, 2003 for a period of three years.


RVD, 20.12.2002

2002 -Zwinkels
2002- Rudd Rosingh

Thanks Kermit! Never heard of either of them.. This Remkes reccomended him to be a Judge after being a private Secretary for the AG and a failed lawyer for the Aruban Govt. Maybe PVDS did such a great job writing contracts for the Aruban Govt and working for the AG? This David Dick moved Van Der Straten to Bonaire with the same title after his obvious hatchet job for his friend PVDS. It is quite clear that the Dutch are up to there eyeballs in all of this as well. I sure would like to know what questions Mr.Hero Brinkman asked Mr. David Dick.
==================================
Bonaire still without corps leader

KRALENDIJK – Since Jan van Straten left late January, Bonaire is still without a chief of police.  His contract ran out per February 1.  Justice-minister David Dick (PAR) regrets the fact that the Netherlands didn’t cooperate and let Van der Straten stay a little longer until a new chief of police was appointed.

Van der Straten works for the Dutch police and they decided that he had to go back. The council of ministers would decide on a new chief of police this month in anticipation of the application committee.
------------------------------

Amigoe.com, 20 julie 2005
Van der Straten sounded for police Bonaire(Translation)

Friday is the last working day of Commissioner Jan van der Straten. The Police confirmed that he was approached by the Antillean Justice Minister David Dick (PAR) to Bonaire to work. Or he addresses this request van der Straten not say. "I go to talk to him."
Van der Straten remain optimistic about solving the case of missing American. "I still assume that the matter is resolved."

http://bonaire.web-log.nl/bonaire/2005/07/van_der_straten.html

[Buckeye]

Posted at BFN:

Controversial post ahead!

I was reading again through the transcript of the car conversations between Joran and Patrick (on:
http://hollowaycase.com/archive/media/devriestape.htm)

Maybe this has been posted before, but I suddenly got the very strong feeling that Joran is possibly schizophrenic and this "Daury" character is an imaginary friend who acts as his (bad) conscience (ref. John Nash in the movie A Beautiful mind).

Just try to read the transcript with this in mind and I think you'll be surprised. Could it be that Joran justifies his acts by having an alter ego that tells him what to do in times of trouble and also acts as the referee who decides whether his actions are right or wrong?

If this is the case, then all the conversations between Joran and "Daury" were just happening in his own head. He was basically talking to himself (about f.i. "you need to go to school" and "yes, she's really dead" and "that evening we talked at my house", etc.). The whole boat disposal scenario could therefore be a complete bogus. Joran might have disposed off the body all by himself (e.g. by burying her), but cleverly shifted the disposal accountability towards his alter ego.

This also could imply that all the other events he describes, i.e. those without Daury being present, are a bit closer to the truth (i.e. that he walked home, that he did throw away his shoes, that K2 are indeed innocent and were slickly seduced into the HI-lie).

I know what he is saying, but there are specific criteria for a diagnosis of schizophrenia.

Joran has been interviewed often enough, I think we would have seen (or reporters would have reported) evidence of hallucinations, incoherence. ..etc.  Now he might display some delusions of grandeur....but so far his "superior" attitude has been right on the money.  We were the ones that were deluded.

I think Joran is a liar (and sociopath) that is inventing the next lie, in his head, as he gives the current one.  He is gifted at reading people and situations and playing/manipulating them to his benefit.  He doesn't display breaks from reality.  He manipulates reality....and takes joy in every win....

[San]

Hi Monkeys...been busy today going hmmmmmmm again. LOL

I need someone to clarify a few things I think I know the answers to, but need someone to agree.  I know they make no sense, but they are a jumble of thoughts and questions all rolled into one. Thanks!

1. Freddy was from Venezuela?  So we've been told
2. Freddy is Ernesto's younger brother? So we've been told, but I don't think thay look alike
3. Ernesto speaks Papiamento? ( I really want to know this one)
4.Ernesto is gay...bi...or whatever it's called? I saw one of his MySpace pages where he identified himself as gay5. Freddy has a business that involves video equipment?
6. Jossy's relatives are Luis, Eric (which was/is in KIA and was the person that Deepak was in the cell with) and a Jossy has a daughter named Damilice?  Doesn't he also have a niece who is married to Rudy Croes?
7. Jossy's son or nephew or a relative attended the same school as someone in Jug Twitty's family?  I think it was a military academy in Tennessee, VA, or Ky.
8. Freddy was working at Champions June 2005?
9. Champions is at the Marrriott and within in walking distance of the HI?
10. Kalpoe's were friends of Freddy for some time? That's what I thought.

I am with you on the Freddy issue.  He is in the center of this entire thing.  I think it was his creative video exploits that were the reason why girls were being drugged and brought to the parties.  Locoman pimp is a key.

The entire Freddy issue is nothing new to me.  It has always been about Freddy from the first week when Paulus hired an attorney for him.  Freddy is like teflon nothing sticks to him.

I don't understand why all of a sudden there is interest in Freddy.  I have always said the top five suspects are Joran, Paulus, Deepak, Satish and Freddy.  JMO.

[klaasend]

Hi Monkeys...been busy today going hmmmmmmm again. LOL

I need someone to clarify a few things I think I know the answers to, but need someone to agree.  I know they make no sense, but they are a jumble of thoughts and questions all rolled into one. Thanks!

1. Freddy was from Venezuela?  So we've been told
2. Freddy is Ernesto's younger brother? So we've been told, but I don't think thay look alike
3. Ernesto speaks Papiamento? ( I really want to know this one)
4.Ernesto is gay...bi...or whatever it's called? I saw one of his MySpace pages where he identified himself as gay5. Freddy has a business that involves video equipment?
6. Jossy's relatives are Luis, Eric (which was/is in KIA and was the person that Deepak was in the cell with) and a Jossy has a daughter named Damilice?  Doesn't he also have a niece who is married to Rudy Croes?
7. Jossy's son or nephew or a relative attended the same school as someone in Jug Twitty's family?  I think it was a military academy in Tennessee, VA, or Ky.
8. Freddy was working at Champions June 2005?
9. Champions is at the Marrriott and within in walking distance of the HI?
10. Kalpoe's were friends of Freddy for some time? That's what I thought.

I am with you on the Freddy issue.  He is in the center of this entire thing.  I think it was his creative video exploits that were the reason why girls were being drugged and brought to the parties.  Locoman pimp is a key.

The entire Freddy issue is nothing new to me.  It has always been about Freddy from the first week when Paulus hired an attorney for him.  Freddy is like teflon nothing sticks to him.

I don't understand why all of a sudden there is interest in Freddy.  I have always said the top five suspects are Joran, Paulus, Deepak, Satish and Freddy.  JMO.

Exactly San.  Why else would PVDS need to hire an attorney immediatelly for Freddy?

[San]

Hi Monkeys...been busy today going hmmmmmmm again. LOL

I need someone to clarify a few things I think I know the answers to, but need someone to agree.  I know they make no sense, but they are a jumble of thoughts and questions all rolled into one. Thanks!

1. Freddy was from Venezuela?  So we've been told
2. Freddy is Ernesto's younger brother? So we've been told, but I don't think thay look alike
3. Ernesto speaks Papiamento? ( I really want to know this one)
4.Ernesto is gay...bi...or whatever it's called? I saw one of his MySpace pages where he identified himself as gay5. Freddy has a business that involves video equipment?
6. Jossy's relatives are Luis, Eric (which was/is in KIA and was the person that Deepak was in the cell with) and a Jossy has a daughter named Damilice?  Doesn't he also have a niece who is married to Rudy Croes?
7. Jossy's son or nephew or a relative attended the same school as someone in Jug Twitty's family?  I think it was a military academy in Tennessee, VA, or Ky.
8. Freddy was working at Champions June 2005?
9. Champions is at the Marrriott and within in walking distance of the HI?
10. Kalpoe's were friends of Freddy for some time? That's what I thought.

I am with you on the Freddy issue.  He is in the center of this entire thing.  I think it was his creative video exploits that were the reason why girls were being drugged and brought to the parties.  Locoman pimp is a key.

The entire Freddy issue is nothing new to me.  It has always been about Freddy from the first week when Paulus hired an attorney for him.  Freddy is like teflon nothing sticks to him.

I don't understand why all of a sudden there is interest in Freddy.  I have always said the top five suspects are Joran, Paulus, Deepak, Satish and Freddy.  JMO.

Exactly San.  Why else would PVDS need to hire an attorney immediatelly for Freddy?

Paulus hired an attorney for the top four suspects excluding himself because he didn't think he would get implicated.  They swept Freddy under the rug because no one saw Freddy with Natalee that night.  Either Freddy was at the house already setting up the camera or he was at another location waiting for them.

[klaasend]

Refresher - from Joran's book:

Statement Freddy Zedan, June 12th 2005 (Translated from Joran's Book by Rammstein)

I am the best friend and neighbor of Joran. We got to know each other about two years ago. Joran and myself are both really into sports and that is how we became good friends. Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house. He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together. After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her. They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba. The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves. After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away. (....)

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish. On the evening of June the third, I met Joran at his house. (....) He told met that during this period, he could not remember if they had bought something to eat or did anything else. 

[Destiny]

KLAAS...HOTMAIL!KLAAS...HOTMAIL!

TIA...Destiny

[Buckeye]

Hi Monkeys...been busy today going hmmmmmmm again. LOL

I need someone to clarify a few things I think I know the answers to, but need someone to agree.  I know they make no sense, but they are a jumble of thoughts and questions all rolled into one. Thanks!

1. Freddy was from Venezuela?  So we've been told
2. Freddy is Ernesto's younger brother? So we've been told, but I don't think thay look alike
3. Ernesto speaks Papiamento? ( I really want to know this one)
4.Ernesto is gay...bi...or whatever it's called? I saw one of his MySpace pages where he identified himself as gay5. Freddy has a business that involves video equipment?
6. Jossy's relatives are Luis, Eric (which was/is in KIA and was the person that Deepak was in the cell with) and a Jossy has a daughter named Damilice?  Doesn't he also have a niece who is married to Rudy Croes?
7. Jossy's son or nephew or a relative attended the same school as someone in Jug Twitty's family?  I think it was a military academy in Tennessee, VA, or Ky.
8. Freddy was working at Champions June 2005?
9. Champions is at the Marrriott and within in walking distance of the HI?
10. Kalpoe's were friends of Freddy for some time? That's what I thought.

I am with you on the Freddy issue.  He is in the center of this entire thing.  I think it was his creative video exploits that were the reason why girls were being drugged and brought to the parties.  Locoman pimp is a key.

The entire Freddy issue is nothing new to me.  It has always been about Freddy from the first week when Paulus hired an attorney for him.  Freddy is like teflon nothing sticks to him.

I don't understand why all of a sudden there is interest in Freddy.  I have always said the top five suspects are Joran, Paulus, Deepak, Satish and Freddy.  JMO.

Exactly San.  Why else would PVDS need to hire an attorney immediatelly for Freddy?

Paulus hired an attorney for the top four suspects excluding himself because he didn't think he would get implicated.  They swept Freddy under the rug because no one saw Freddy with Natalee that night.  Either Freddy was at the house already setting up the camera or he was at another location waiting for them.

I agree. Freddy is big.

I do have to keep Guido in mind.  Paulus did call him....and no way do I believe it was to check up on Joran's winnings.  Perhaps he offered legal advise and Guido's dad told Paulus...no...we got our own man.

[carpe noctem]

They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba

Sounds to me like they are trying to hide Honda tire tracks, on that one.

[SS]

Mayan Moons - #46 - Rudy is married to a Mansur (Jossy’s niece or cousin or something). Despite him (Rudy) being a devout catholic, he thought it was okay to get divorced and marry again… but he doesn’t want afford the people of Aruba those same choices.

Either way, the man is an idiot. Those of you wondering why no one (or very few people) on the island are reacting? He’s an idiot. There’s probably no reason to react. He’s crazy (oh, and by the way - in case this was confused along the way: he is soooo not considered Dutch).
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/04/more-fall-out-from-rudy-croes-commentsbreaks-off-with-the-netherlands/


Alcazar's Revenge

Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:44 am Post subject: Jossy and Diario
________________________________________
You should take Jossy Mansur for what he is. The owner and publisher of a newspaper.

That he has his own agenda. Sure. That he is an opinionated man. Damn sure. Did you know Jossy's niece is married to the Minister of Justice. Everybody meets for drinks and BBQ.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.msg367560



Lala's, I can't find the article that talked about Jossy's niece.  I did see these two references to the niece being married to Rudy.  When I am not looking for it, I will find the article.

[carpe noctem]

The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves.


out of sequence.


none of their "slave story" sequencing has ever matched up.

[friend of monkeys]

Has anyone figured out why CAPS was looking for Gay Royal from Kentucky?   

Not sure but I think we found the info he was looking for.

I do know that when you type in "gay royal" in a google search you come up with some interresting hits, lol 

KLASS

i bet u do...lol...still i am fraid to go there...lol

U are an amazing and BRAVE  MONKEY!!!

God bless......

[Buckeye]

They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba

Sounds to me like they are trying to hide Honda tire tracks, on that one.

or they would have denied going in that direction all together but someone saw them on the road there.....so it turned into...but they never went passed where the witness saw them...

[Destiny]

KLAAS...MORE INCOMING...HOTMAIL!!!

TIA...Destiny

[carpe noctem]

yup, good thought!

[carpe noctem]

> Buckeye.

[klaasend]

FYI - Just got confirmation that JOSSY will be on tomorrow nights DANA PRETZER show!

[carpe noctem]

I also just love how Freddy-rico has miraculous recall on the smallest
of things that happened, and he wasn't there.


Give me a rest.