Natalee Case Discussion #762 6/30 - 7/6/08

[Lala'sMom]

Thank you Kermit.   

[San]

[caesu]

this hit-and-run of Hendrik Croes was reported in Dutch newspapers.
there was said that Rudy and Hendrik are brothers.
also in the Aruban papers.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/article514116.ece/Oud-minister_Aruba_vast_om_aanrijden_agent?service=Print

but i am still unsure about when Hendrik was exactly justice minister.
at least from 1989. but i don't know when Rudy took over from him. in 2005? i doubt that now.
but in more other articles i read that Rudy was already justice minister before 2004, already in 1993 even.

Rudy's initials are H. R. (Hyacinto Rudolf or Rudolfus).
and Hendrik's are H. S.

here my earlier research on Hendrik:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367294#msg367294

and on Rudy:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367223#msg367223


here article about the Croes family:
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article191211.ece

also mentioned is Glenbert Croes, a son of Betico.
he started his own party. let to a family feud. a fight for Betico's legacy.

Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know the name of said party? TIA

Glenbert Croes party is Aruban Liberal Organization ALO.
no seats in parliament currently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aruban_Liberal_Organization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Aruba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Aruba

[caesu]

Now, what do we know about Deutekom?  I just learned to spell his name correctly, so don't anyone think I know more details...I have been confused about Frans since March. 

i am also eager to know more about him.
all i know is that he is public prosecutor on Aruba and helped write the new lawbook of the Antilles and Aruba in 1997.

[Destiny]

Caps
Please drop in and tell us more about Deutekom.  You know I have tons of questions...does he have influence over the judges also?  As in Judge Witt?  Who are his friends?  Why is he so behind the scenes?  I have wanted to know forever about this particular Shango post concerning Dirty Hand.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy
Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house,
and so DirtyHand was discovered
But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings
He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous

Excerpt from this link...

http://www.minbuza.nl/en/news/speeches_and_articles,2007/05/Introductory-Statement.html

I am happy to note, though, that all three constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands – that is: the Netherlands, the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba - are represented in our delegation. Let me introduce the members of the delegation:

   1. Martin Kuijer, senior legal adviser on human rights at the Legislation Department of the Ministry of Justice
   2. Jeroen de Jong, senior legal adviser at the Custodial Institutions Agency of the Ministry of Justice
   3. Taetske van der Reijt, senior legal adviser at the Police Department of the Ministry of the Interior and Kingdom Relations
   4. Femma Pais, legislative lawyer at the Legislation and Legal Affairs Department of the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport
   5. Frans Clabbers, senior policy adviser on mental health care at the Curative Care Department of the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport
   6. Pieter Ramaer, counsellor at the Permanent Mission of the Netherlands to the United Nations, Geneva
   7. Fabio Rossi, policy adviser at the UN Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Those are the delegation members of the European part of the Kingdom. Then:

   1. Joan Theodora-Brewster, head of the Prevention, Juvenile Protection and Judicial Facilities Section, and Deputy Director of the Justice Directorate, Netherlands Antilles
   2. Gilbert Benita, Assistant Director of Housing at Curaçao Prison in the Netherlands Antilles
  3. Frans van Deutekom, public prosecutor in Aruba
   4. Angelique Peterson, head of the Legal Affairs and Treaties Division, Foreign Relations Department in Aruba.

And I am Piet de Klerk, Human Rights Ambassador, heading the delegation.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I found this page and even though I don't understand a word of it...it does mention TWO Deutekom people....2 different ones I think.
Let's see if it copies over correctly.Yikes....you only need the first page below but the rest looks interesting also....this is most of the way down on that website(link below)

Dia 12 di Juni: Seguridad di nos muchanan!Orador: Sr. Ricardo Muller (Inspector di Polis)Mr. Frans van Deutekom (Officier van Justitie) 7.00 – 8.30 p.mDia 13 di Juni:Preveni maleza y promove salud!;Orador: Sra. Russine van Deutekom (Mondhygieniste)Sra. Arnalda Els (Verpleegkundige)Sra. Monica Nuboer (Arts) 7.00 – 8.30 p.mDia 14 di Juni: Ser Profesional y ta un Bon Mayor!Orador: Sr. Rene Leander (Consultant)Sra. Cheryl Arendsz (International Business) 7.00 – 8.30 p.mNos ta spera cu mayornan por cuminza na reserva e anochinan aki, ya cu tur ta di suma interes pa cu desaroyo di nos muchanan. Pa motibonan organisatorio nos lo desea si, pa avisa cuanto mayor lo ta presente. Y keda pendiente pa nos Gala Party “A Touch of Sapphire”.CharlanaImeldaKleuterschool
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Pagina 18dialuna 11 Juni, 2007Nos ta anuncia na tur nos clientenan cu nos ta cera for di 6 di Juni 2007 definitivamente. For di 7 di Juni 2007 nos sucursal Sun & Shade Optica Bubali lo tuma over tur servicio, reparacion, buscamento di bril, etc. Pa mas informacion tuma contacto cu : Sun & Shade Optica Bubali na Bubali 69, Telefoon: 587-3311.STA. CRUZ -- Durante e tratamento di e presupuesto di Ministerio di Salubridad Publico, fraccion di RED a presenta un mocion cu ta bisa lo siguiente: Tumando na cuenta cu e situacion financiero di Pais Aruba ta hopi precario, tumando na cuenta cu mester haci algo na e situacion actual di e hospital existente, tumando na cuenta cu e concentracion mas grandi di poblacion local y turistico ta pabao di brug.Tumando na cuenta diferente rapport traha door di expertonan local cu ta recomenda pa renova y amplia e hospital existente, ta urgi Gobierno pa renova y amplia Hospital Dr. Horacio E. Oduber na Eagle. E mocion lamentablemente no por a conta cu sosten di e fraccion di MEP. Historia ta bay ripiti asina mescos cu e proyecto di airport Gobierno di AVP/OLA a scoge pa un deal cu ta dos vez mas caro, asina Gobierno di MEPta scoge pa e proyecto di hospital nobo cu ta sali dos vez mas caro cu e proyecto alternativa di renovacion/ampliacion di e hospital existente. Di e proyecto di airport nos sa ken a sali beneficia, hasta nan a bay cera despues di a haci mescos na Trinidad, di esun di e hospital nobo ta keda un gran pregunta ta ken lo sali beneficia cune.E vision aki di amplia e hospital na Eagle y e Centro Medico na San Nicolas ta implica cu fraccion di RED ta sostene pa bin dos centro pa cuido diabetico, uno na pariba di brug y otro na pabao di brug. Pesey fraccion di RED a haci diferente pregunta na Minister di Salubridad Publico. Pakico kier bin cu un centro diabetico so? Si ta conoci cu e concentracion di diabetici pabao di brug ta hopi mas halto, dicon no un centro eynan? Fraccion di RED ta sostene pa bin cu un centro diabetico tambe na Centro Medico, na San Nicolas. Otro preguntanan ta, si tur stakeholders ta involucra den e iniciativa aki? Pa cuminza tal centronan tin experticio na Aruba mes. Segun sr. Lampe kier busca experticio di afor, pesey e pregunta ta di con no ta haci uso di experticio local? Si esaki no ta cuadra cu e pensamento di minister cu nos mediconan local semper mester haya preferencia? Nos tin suficiente experticio presente riba nos isla, y fraccion di RED ta dispuesto di nombra nomber di expertonan local. Si e centronan ta bira manera cu ta riba e otro islanan den Caribe cu ta di top calidad? Ta aki ta sinta e reto principal. No mester warda te na acumulacion di complicacionnan a causa di diabetes. Ta urgente pa atende di un manera profesional e maleza di diabetes. Cuido diabetico mester ta den man di experto. Dokternan na Aruba tin mucho poco tempo pa duna e cuido necesario y tin ta maneha poco conocimento al respecto. A la vez AZV no ta cubri gasto pa dietistenzorg. E parti educativo (Gezondheidseducatie) no ta efectivo. E cantidad di complicacionnan ta hopi halto na Aruba 150 caso di amputacion, di cual 90% ta ocasiona door di diabetes, 70% di paciente di nierdialyse ta diabetico, 90% di e paciente na wondenpoli ta diabetico. Paciente di stroke, paciente di curazon, esnan ciego, hopi ta a causa di diabetes aunke nos no sa e cantidad exacto. Un percentahe halto di diferente tipo di atake ta a consecuencia di diabetes. E problema na Aruba ta serio, 15% di nos poblacion ta diabetico, compara cu na Europa ta 6%, na Merca ta 6%, na Africa ta 2%. Mientras cu e cuido diabetico na Aruba ta bao di nivel, cu tur consecuencia negativo esta cu gastonan pa AZV lo por subi di 20 te cu 50%. Pesey fraccion di RED ta sostene pa bin cu dos centro diabetico, uno pariba di brug y otro pabao di brug.Sr. Rudy Lampe di RED:FracciondiREDapresentamocionduranteedebatecuMinisterWever
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dialuna 11 Juni, 2007Pagina 19STA. CRUZ -- Tin diferente forma di Abuso di mucha;• maltrato (fisico, verbal, emocional), • abuso sexual (rape, incest),• mishimento na nan parti intimo, • “ stalking” ( persigi un mucha /hoben of mande mensajenan cu tono sexual),• pornografia (laga muchanan wak pelicula di sex of saca nan potret sunu y pone esaki ariba p.e. internet), • Presencia y mira violencia• Un adulto cu tin relacion cu un mucha / hoben (sugar daddy’s).Abuso di mucha ta pasa den henter nos comunidad. Sea publicamente of den esfera priva di un cas. Den publico nos por pensa ariba caya of den parke pero tambe por ehempel na-of rond di school, den supermercado, negoshi etc. Den esfera priva bo por pensa den cas di famia of na cas di un familiar. Tur hende por bira victima di abuso/ violencia, mucha muher, mucha homber, homber y muher. Telefon Pa Hubentud tur dia di ta ricibi diferente yamada di mucha y hoben. E problema of inquietudnan cu e mucha tin ta varia di problema na cas, cu amigo/anan, school , abuso ect. Ta asina si cu muchanan no ta conta asina facilmente kico nan ta pasando aden na cas, tin diferente motibo pa cu esaki, talvez nan no ta durf di conta o nan no ta consciente cu locual cu nan ta pasando aden ta abuso, hopi di nan ta wordo menaza tambe o tin di nan tin berguenza di conta. Na TPH via e hotline 131 ta ricibi yamada di mucha cu ta presencia violencia na cas, pero e no ta un grupo grandi, pero esey no Kier meen cu e No ta pasando na gran escala, pasobra manera a wordo splica anteriormente tin hopi motibo pakico nan no ta durf di conta. Tambe den analisis haci na otro paisnan esaki tambe ta tuma lugar, pues den hopi caso despues di varios aña of tempo ta bin sali na cla e trauma kico muchanan ta pasa adenBayendo schoolnan pa duna charla tambe TPH ta haya informacion cu tin varios mucha ta presencia violencia na cas, sea cu mayornan ta bringa -, insulta otro y unda abuso di alcohol of otro substancia ta hunga un rol. E ta un problema masha subtiel mes y tin ora difícil pa señala, pasobra e ta sosode cu personanan hopi cerca di nan, mayornan, esnan cu tin cuido di nan etc. Na 2006 TPH a registra 142 yamada di Abuso di mucha, unda e yamado ta busca ayudo o kier informacion. Bao di Abuso emocional, a ricibi 88 yamada. Pues nos por bisa 10% di e cifra aki TPH a ricibi yamada di mucha y hoben cu a presencia of mira violencia. Pa preveni cu abuso /violencia tuma lugar no ta facil, pasobra hopi di e caso nan aki ta pasa den scondi. Den hopi caso e victima di un o otro forma ta depende di esun cu ta abusa di dje. Victimanan di abuso ta haya tambe masha dificil pa bay busca ayudo na instancianan concerni. Dor cu nan ta chikito nan tin miedo of berguenza, nan no tin e confianza pa conta un otro persona y asina por menciona un scala di motibonan mas.E factornan aki ta haci cu e drempel pa bay busca ayudo ta bira mas halto ainda. Ta pesey ta importante pa personanan cercano (famia , maestro/a , amistadnan, bisiña etc) pa tuma e iniciativa pa señala, yama pa busca informacion y ayudo pa e muchanan aki cu ta victima di nan propio sernan keri of persona hopi conoci. Aki ta sigui algun instancia unda bo por yama pa haya mas informacion:• Bureau Sostenemi tel: 5882984 • Directie Voogdijraad tel. 5821262• Directie Sociale Zaken tel: 5823145 (playa) / 5841112 (San Nicolaas)• Jeugd-en Zedenpolitie </nob
http://solodipueblo.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=119

[San]

[Lala'sMom]

I am still confused over this public prosecutor designation in Aruba.  How many are there in Aruba? 

Karen Janssen
Hans Mos
Franz Duetekom

If DH is a designation for the public prosecutors then this makes sense...sort of.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame.
The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys.
They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe!
He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten.
But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed.
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
….without the loot


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries…


Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable
DirtyHand is well known
there will be a sacrifice
the gods have been talking
the fires have been lit
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot
that is why they are preparing the sacrifice
All fear DirtyHand
Arawaks and babylon
I must go feed the messengers

[Lala'sMom]

I kinda know how Lampe feels some days...I keep hoping my questions will get answered too. 

[GBMW]

GBMW:
.to see / hear a few quotes from someone and label him - her as a cheat / liar / .





Well, IMHO... for you to be assuming that a person on the American end has only seen
a few quotes, and can't comprehend the full scope of what Patrick Van der eem is
saying in his many media interviews, in his book, and on his blog, seems a bit
presumptuous to me.

However, I think it is great that you think you have a better grasp
on the full Patrick Van der eem picture due to your language knowledge
and position. Thanks for sharing.

I was talking about people / judgement in general and not about Patrick per se.....missed the she part in the sentence perhaps? Or you don't think I'm aware of the fact Patrick is male?

[Kermit]

Kermit - can you turn left onto LG Smith at that intersection?

I am not positive on that.

BTW, I was looking through last holiday photos and didn't remember this being taken..

Slueth,

Yes, that was US last year, remember? We had a great time!
You really are a super slueth!

 

[Rob]

guys - this is the guy from the marijuana gang - the one with the scorpion tattoo on his neck.


This is a new robbery suspect




It looks like it could be the same guy

++++++++++++++

E CONOCIDO JOJO ATROBE TA METI DEN KIEBRO Y LADRONICIA, DI SIMAN PASA CABA ELA HORTA Y DIADOMINGO AINDA E TA CANA LIBER
PERO DIADOMINGO MADRUGA SI POLIS A CAPTURE DESPUES DI A DESTRUI VITRINA DI UN PACUS DEN CAYA G.F. BETICO CROES

http://www.awe24.com/

[Kermit]

Thank you Kermit.   

You are most welcome Ms. Lala.

[Helen Back]

Now, what do we know about Deutekom?  I just learned to spell his name correctly, so don't anyone think I know more details...I have been confused about Frans since March. 

i am also eager to know more about him.
all i know is that he is public prosecutor on Aruba and helped write the new lawbook of the Antilles and Aruba in 1997.

What CAPS has told us is that he is "behind the scenes", can fabricate a case against you and get you convicted, or can make sure that you walk, even if guilty.  Doesn't like to be photographed, and mention of him by name is almost non-existent in the newspapers.  Considering all the work and investigation done here by many monkeys over the course of three years, it's fascinating to me that we never heard of this guy til CAPS told us about him. 

Very shadowy character indeed.  Don't you all find it remarkable that with all the contacts some of you have, and all our interviews with Jossy, etc., no one has ever mentioned this guy? 

The fact that monkeys have scrutinized this island from top to bottom, and were unaware of Deutekom until now, piqued my interest right away!  The sheer anonymity of one so powerful makes me sure that CAPS is on the right track. 

Since Deutekom doesn't care for the limelight, the best thing we can do is shine a big spotlight on him and find out all that we can.
Perhaps he will not be so powerful in the daylight.

[GBMW]

Things are usually black and white to me.  Either I believe the person or I don't.  That's how I am when I view things.  I feel the same way as ******* does about Patrick.  There are people who don't.  We all have different thoughts about the subject.

This has gone on since yesterday and I'm tired of reading about it and I don't want to see fighting.  I say let's move on a drop the subject.

That's your right...and nothing wrong with that at all.

It's easy for you to say drop the subject though...you're not the one that's been called a stupid, crazy, lying wheasel for no reason by a mod.

It is not easy for me to say drop the subject.  I said it after you defended yourself in a post. I'm tired of reading about this drama between you and *******.

I'm the one that's being called a liar etc. by a mod for no reason. I have every right to stand up for myself. If you don't like it....skip the posts. TIA

[GBMW]

But no matter where I work: I'm able to watch complete interviews sometimes; not a couple of quotes here and there. And I see reactions from people / lawyers / ALE in our agenda when something is up in this case.
Interviews / reactions / quotes don't change because of the channel / programme that does the interview BTW; the person stays the same.

PLEASE STOP WITH THIS BLA BLA

You were the one starting with this bladiebladiebla Johan. You picked one little tiny thing and made it an issue....I only responded. Can't take the heat then don't start the fire.

Have a good day.

[San]

I kinda know how Lampe feels some days...I keep hoping my questions will get answered too. 

 

[Buckeye]

Lots of political history here:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.historiadiaruba.aw/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D46%26Itemid%3D57&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=8&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2B%2522Gilberto%2BFrancois%2BCroes%2522%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

[Kermit]

this hit-and-run of Hendrik Croes was reported in Dutch newspapers.
there was said that Rudy and Hendrik are brothers.
also in the Aruban papers.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/article514116.ece/Oud-minister_Aruba_vast_om_aanrijden_agent?service=Print

but i am still unsure about when Hendrik was exactly justice minister.
at least from 1989. but i don't know when Rudy took over from him. in 2005? i doubt that now.
but in more other articles i read that Rudy was already justice minister before 2004, already in 1993 even.

Rudy's initials are H. R. (Hyacinto Rudolf or Rudolfus).
and Hendrik's are H. S.

here my earlier research on Hendrik:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367294#msg367294

and on Rudy:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367223#msg367223


here article about the Croes family:
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article191211.ece

also mentioned is Glenbert Croes, a son of Betico.
he started his own party. let to a family feud. a fight for Betico's legacy.

Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know the name of said party? TIA

Glenbert Croes party is Aruban Liberal Organization ALO.
no seats in parliament currently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aruban_Liberal_Organization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Aruba
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Aruba

Wasn't Rudy Minister in the earlie 90s?
Around the time that Paulus came from Holland to Aruba and worked for the gov't as an attorney.

[San]

Things are usually black and white to me.  Either I believe the person or I don't.  That's how I am when I view things.  I feel the same way as ******* does about Patrick.  There are people who don't.  We all have different thoughts about the subject.

This has gone on since yesterday and I'm tired of reading about it and I don't want to see fighting.  I say let's move on a drop the subject.

That's your right...and nothing wrong with that at all.

It's easy for you to say drop the subject though...you're not the one that's been called a stupid, crazy, lying wheasel for no reason by a mod.

It is not easy for me to say drop the subject.  I said it after you defended yourself in a post. I'm tired of reading about this drama between you and *******.

I'm the one that's being called a liar etc. by a mod for no reason. I have every right to stand up for myself. If you don't like it....skip the posts. TIA

And you made it clear in your last post and you did stand up for yourself.  Don't tell me what to do.

This is becoming boring.  Contribute to the case or start a different thread and you can discuss your disagreement there.