Lively Case Discussion #522 9/10 - 9/12/2006

[Atlmetroguy]

Hey everybody who said hello!! I'm having a really rare slow afternoon with this new job..I've been a busy monkey!!

[Ono]

Deepak: Off the Reservation on 6/11

Deepak comes out w/ the beach drop-off story on 6/11 in his "suspect statement" -- breaking the party line on the HI story and "officially" goes off the reservation...

WHY?

After all, he has lied as a "witness" in a capital crime case, he has perjured himself and is open to numerous additional charges.  His attorney learns that there is no "relevant" jvds "witness" statement on 6/9. (And this TRUE, whether a jvds witness statement exists or not.) And within 48 hours, deepak is singing a completely different tune.

Makes total sense.  I am now thinking that those photos of Satish at the Sloot Compound pool party may actually have been taken way PRIOR to Joran's release, and only posted on the date of/right after his release for PR  appearances' sake?

I believe deepak and his attorneys correctly surmised and deduced they were being set up.  And this would be wholly keeping w/ Paulus method of having a "plan B" if the arrest of the guards failed to produce desired outcome.  The longer k2 sticks with HI lie, the worse the perjury gets, the worse the potential obstruction charges get.

To protect himself and his brother, he goes off the reservation.  He tells the "truth" on 6/11 -- directly implicating jvds as last person w/ Natalee.  He does so because he is threatened and exposed.

The stated "IRRELEVANCE" of the jvd witness statement by k2 attorney is clear signal, during 6/9-6/11 w/ security guard/HI story collapsing, the sloots will try to pin k2, and their own FALSE WITNESS statements are Exhibit 1.

  My comments were the third paragraph ! ??

I started out by saying: "Makes total sense".....oi vey ~

[klaasend]

Ono - check the bottom of page 27, think I've fixed it now.  I deleted the first post where it was mixed in the middle.

[Shizaru]

Added to timeline from Bubali statments:


Sunday

Deepak observes that Natalee dances beautifully and does not appear unsteady on her feet when she steps off the stage, altho he initially tells polis he could tell she was drunk from how she was dancing and that she swayed on her feet when she walked. She walks up to Joran and Deepak hears her say "Hi, how's it going? Why didn't you dance with me?" Deepak hears Joran laugh hard but can't hear his answer, Natalee again asks him to dance and Joran declines.  Deepak then sees Natalee walk over to some of her friends, three girls and two boys. Deepak speaks to a friend for 5-10 minutes, then can't find Satish and Joran so he goes outside to wait in the car (D 5/31, 6/9, 6/11)

Natalee tells Deepak that he has beautiful car and she wants to drive around. (D 5/31, 6/9)

Natalee calls a boy's name, which Deepak can't remember  (D 5/31)  

Tuesday

3:30 pm: Deepak gives his witness statement at Bubali station, in which he describes the trip to the lighthouse, and the fictional HI dropoff with the security guard. Polis ask Deepak if Joran and Natalee had gotten out of the car and walked by the sea at the Fisherman's Huts, and he says no.

7:20 pm: Satish gives his witness statement at Bubali station, in which he describes the trip to the lighthouse, and the fictional HI dropoff with the security guard. Satish claims that while in the car he saw Joran both kissing and fingering Natalee, altho his 6/11 statement only mentions kissing.  In this statement, Satish seems to contradict Joran and Deepak on several points regarding the events at CnCs: He says that Joran danced with Natalee, and that he then left Joran and Deepak and walked around inside CnCs,  and he implies that the four of them walked out of CnCs together. Polis ask Satish if Joran and Natalee had gotten out of the car and walked by the sea at the Fisherman's Huts, and he says no.

June 11: Deepak and Satish give statements in which they admit having lied about leaving Natalee at the HI, and say that Joran and Natalee got out at the beach near the Marriott.  Deepak says he thinks that Joran raped Natalee, but did not murder her. Satish's description of events at CnCs is now consistent with that of Joran and Deepak.

http://blogsfornatalee.com/forums/index.php?topic=4590.msg146617#msg146617

[klaasend]

Thanks Shizaru!

[sharon]

Hiya Monkeys

Anna, Holland America is no longer owned by the Dutch. They along with
Princess Cruises, Cunard Line, Costa Cruises, Windstar Cruises and the Yachts of Seabourn are owned by Carnival Cruise Lines now.

Yapperz,
Thanks!  Aha!  Carnival lies when they say they no longer go to Aruba then!  

  No. They don't.

Carnival Cruise Lines -- is a cruise line BRAND owned by Carnival Corp.

Holland America is a cruise line BRAND owned by Carnival Corp.

Cunard is cruise line BRAND owned by Carnival Corp.

Seabourn is a cruise line BRAND owned by Carnival Corp.

And the list goes on.......

I do not believe I have ever seen a statement about Aruba from Carnival Corp -- which owns Holland America.

The statement you are referring to was from Carnival Cruise Line.

[sharon]

Anna, technically yes they do. They are taking the "Carnival" ships out of Aruba but Holland America will still be visiting. I have been writing them about this too.

Hiya Metro!!!!

yapperz1 -- I have never seen a statement from Corporate. Just CCL.

If you are writing Corporate -- and can convince them -- that's alot of cruise lines that won't call on Aruba. Carnival Corp pretty much owns everything but RCL and NCL.

But each of the brands has it's own headquarters and president.

If I can help you with any names or addresses, please let me know. Carnival Corp and Canrival Cruise are both home based here in Miami.

[Hotshot]

.
Hotshot,
I think the paint is why I couldn't find the Gottenbos home last night.  So it is one of the ones listed for over a million dollars then?  That does seem too high and you may be right that they do not really want to sell it.  Maybe they are just hiding out until this problem passes and have no idea that we are not going away.

This may also be a form of denial that tourism is down and the boycott has had any effect for many do seem to think the opposite is happening in Aruba.

.

LOL, it was close to a million (875,000) I do believe.  So sad isn't it?  I personally want to see the VDS's house go up for sale.

[yapperz1]

Thanks Sharon. It is the CCL ships which won't be going to Aruba. I am writing corporate hq as a frequent passenger of CCL & Holland America.

[Ono]

HELLO, YA'LL!!!!!!!!!!!  I've just read the last few posts here, and I've something to contribute:  I doubt that Wonderwoman is a real Republican.  I don't know where she is, but she probably isn't really out fund-raising for the Republican Party.     I did not see her in Europe, either.    (Which doesn't mean she wasn't there.)

I'll see ya'll the next time I have anything to contribute.     Wishing everyone well!

 Yo Darleen ! How are you ?  
I doubt seriously that Wonderwoman is even an American, much less a Republican...!

[Spock]

Janssen can not only charge and prosecute Deepak and Satish for giving false statements as a witness in a murder investigation, there is a greater charge to be filed and prosecuted:

Conspiracy to Obstruct a Murder Investigation

The two did not act individually to implicate the security guards, they worked up the story together to have the SGs arrested. Remember what Micky John said he heard Deepak say while they both were in custody:

"He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story".

[NM]

Deepak: Off the Reservation on 6/11

Deepak comes out w/ the beach drop-off story on 6/11 in his "suspect statement" -- breaking the party line on the HI story and "officially" goes off the reservation...

WHY?

After all, he has lied as a "witness" in a capital crime case, he has perjured himself and is open to numerous additional charges.  His attorney learns that there is no "relevant" jvds "witness" statement on 6/9. (And this TRUE, whether a jvds witness statement exists or not.) And within 48 hours, deepak is singing a completely different tune.

I believe deepak and his attorneys correctly surmised and deduced they were being set up.  And this would be wholly keeping w/ Paulus method of having a "plan B" if the arrest of the guards failed to produce desired outcome.  The longer k2 sticks with HI lie, the worse the perjury gets, the worse the potential obstruction charges get.


To protect himself and his brother, he goes off the reservation.  He tells the "truth" on 6/11 -- directly implicating jvds as last person w/ Natalee.  He does so because he is threatened and exposed.

The stated "IRRELEVANCE" of the jvd witness statement by k2 attorney is clear signal, during 6/9-6/11 w/ security guard/HI story collapsing, the sloots will try to pin k2, and their own FALSE WITNESS statements are Exhibit 1.

Makes total sense.  I am now thinking that those photos of Satish at the Sloot Compound pool party may actually have been taken way PRIOR to Joran's release, and only posted on the date of/right after his release for PR  appearances' sake?




  My comments were the third paragraph ! ??

Edit - is this correct?

Hey Monks!!
Hi Hammer,
Check this out dk spills the HI is a lie and the pow-wow around the pool to Mikey sometime June9-10. when jurin finds out he panics and confesses to everything during the late hrs of June 10, the confession is reported then retracted in the press from June 10 11PM-June 11 1AM, then dk give the fish.hut story June11.

Hi Ono,
Linda posted on FP #67 of the dk 5-31 statement that those photos were taking before jurin was detained.

[klaasend]

NM - I know Linda said that about that photo but I don't believe her.  I don't think she really knows.  If you look at Flor, Joran and Freddy it looks like it was taken in September 2005 not way before, IMO.

[the big hammer]

Conspiracy

A felony crime

From Black's Law Dictionary (granted addresses offenses under the US Code):

CONSPIRACY
A conspiracy is "an agreement by two or more persons to commit an unlawful act, coupled with an intent to achieve the agreement's objective, and [often] action or conduct that furthers the agreement; a combination for an unlawful purpose." Black's Law Dictionary 329 (8th ed. 2005). Conspiracy always involves two or more people, because a person cannot conspire with himself. United States v. Moss, 591 F.2d 428, 434 (8th Cir. 1979). It is a separate offense from the crime that is the object of the conspiracy, and the conspiracy ends when either the unlawful act has been committed or when the agreement has been abandoned. Id. It does not automatically end if the object of the conspiracy is defeated. Id. The statute that deals primarily with conspiracy is 18 U.S.C. § 371 (2005), but there are some statutes that deal with conspiracies for specific unlawful acts, the most common being 18 U.S.C. § 1956(h) (2005) (money laundering), and 21 U.S.C. § 846 (2005) (controlled substances). Many times, a defendant will be charged with conspiracy along with the actual crime the defendant is accused of committing. For example, see United States v. Walsh, 75 F.3d 1 (1st Cir. 1996) (defendant charged with conspiracy, bank fraud, and making false statements); Huff v. United States, 301 F.2d 760 (5th Cir. 1962) (defendants charged with conspiracy, and wire fraud); United States v. Buschman, 386 F. Supp. 822 (E.D. Wis. 1975) (defendant charged with conspiracy, and interstate transportation of stolen goods). Other times, the defendant will be charged with only one count of conspiracy. See, for example, Coluccio v. United States, 313 F. Supp. 2d 150 (E.D.N.Y. 2004) (defendant charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States government); United States v. Fantin, 130 F. Supp. 2d 385 (W.D.N.Y. 2000) (defendant charged with one count of conspiracy to commit wire and mail fraud).

18 U.S.C. § 371 (2005)

The Crime
It is a violation of section 371 for "two or more persons" to conspire
to commit any offense against the United States, or
" to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, if one or more of such persons does any act to effect the object of the conspiracy. 18 U.S.C. § 371 (2005).

The Punishment
The punishment for a violation of section 371 is

a fine,
imprisonment for not more than five years,
or both. 18 U.S.C. § 371 (2005).

If the offense contemplated is a misdemeanor, the punishment shall not exceed the maximum punishment provided for such misdemeanor. Id.

[Carnut]

.
Hotshot,
I think the paint is why I couldn't find the Gottenbos home last night.  So it is one of the ones listed for over a million dollars then?  That does seem too high and you may be right that they do not really want to sell it.  Maybe they are just hiding out until this problem passes and have no idea that we are not going away.

This may also be a form of denial that tourism is down and the boycott has had any effect for many do seem to think the opposite is happening in Aruba.

.

LOL, it was close to a million (875,000) I do believe.  So sad isn't it?  I personally want to see the VDS's house go up for sale.

Isn't that just a drop in the bucket for drug money?

[NM]

NM - I know Linda said that about that photo but I don't believe her.  I don't think she really knows.  If you look at Flor, Joran and Freddy it looks like it was taken in September 2005 not way before, IMO.

Hey Klaas, Thank you!. I feel like you just pulled me up from a crack in the ground to hell! Thank you!

urgh! fooled again by a big aruba "people"!  This time b/c she is one of the few still around posting.  And seems congenial, which is their M.O.

I will repeat to myself 1,000 times. do not trust arubans, do not trust arubans.....

PS you mean Sept 2006

Sorry to my fellow Monkeys for spreading the bs. It was not intentional. Just stupid.

[klaasend]

NM - I know Linda said that about that photo but I don't believe her.  I don't think she really knows.  If you look at Flor, Joran and Freddy it looks like it was taken in September 2005 not way before, IMO.

Hey Klaas, Thank you!. I feel like you just pulled me up from a crack in the ground to hell! Thank you!

urgh! fooled again by a big aruba "people"!  This time b/c she is one of the few still around posting.  And seems congenial, which is their M.O.

I will repeat to myself 1,000 times. do not trust arubans, do not trust arubans.....

PS you mean Sept 2006

Sorry to my fellow Monkeys for spreading the bs. It was not intentional. Just stupid.

No, I mean September 2005 when Joran was released from detention.

[Ono]

Deepak: Off the Reservation on 6/11

Deepak comes out w/ the beach drop-off story on 6/11 in his "suspect statement" -- breaking the party line on the HI story and "officially" goes off the reservation...

WHY?

After all, he has lied as a "witness" in a capital crime case, he has perjured himself and is open to numerous additional charges.  His attorney learns that there is no "relevant" jvds "witness" statement on 6/9. (And this TRUE, whether a jvds witness statement exists or not.) And within 48 hours, deepak is singing a completely different tune.

I believe deepak and his attorneys correctly surmised and deduced they were being set up.  And this would be wholly keeping w/ Paulus method of having a "plan B" if the arrest of the guards failed to produce desired outcome.  The longer k2 sticks with HI lie, the worse the perjury gets, the worse the potential obstruction charges get.


To protect himself and his brother, he goes off the reservation.  He tells the "truth" on 6/11 -- directly implicating jvds as last person w/ Natalee.  He does so because he is threatened and exposed.

The stated "IRRELEVANCE" of the jvd witness statement by k2 attorney is clear signal, during 6/9-6/11 w/ security guard/HI story collapsing, the sloots will try to pin k2, and their own FALSE WITNESS statements are Exhibit 1.

Makes total sense.  I am now thinking that those photos of Satish at the Sloot Compound pool party may actually have been taken way PRIOR to Joran's release, and only posted on the date of/right after his release for PR  appearances' sake?




  My comments were the third paragraph ! ??

Edit - is this correct?

Yes! Thanks Klass! You're good ~

[the big hammer]

deepak 6/11: The "truth" OR another cover story?

NM writes: "...Check this out dk spills the HI is a lie and the pow-wow around the pool to Mikey sometime June9-10. when jurin finds out he panics and confesses to everything during the late hrs of June 10, the confession is reported then retracted in the press from June 10 11PM-June 11 1AM, then dk give the fish.hut story June11..."


On 6/11, all of them are telling the beach drop off story.  Has everybody been brought back to the reservation OR is this a "Mexican" standoff?

Could be a little of both.

1.  Through false witness statement and perjury charges, k2 are in trouble based on their witness statements.  
2.  The false witness statements implicates k2 directly, maing them much more suspicious than jvds.
3.  jvds has not provided a "witness statement" and k2 lawyer says she has been told (by prosecution?) that jvds statement is not "relevant" and presumably not provided...
4.  See how guilty k2 looks at this stage?

But on 6/10 jvds confesses, and retracts, and on 6/11 everyone is saying the fisherman's huts and beach drop off story.

Maybe deepak said: "You are try to frame me, and I'm going to spill it all" panicking jvds, until Paulus came in as "cat wrangler" and got everyone back in the cage.  

And there it sits: a failed frame up of k2, but k2 w/ criminal behavior on record (perjury, obstruction, contempt, conspiracy) and knowledge of what happened (polis car tape) can put jvds on trial for murder.  

So no prosecution of k2. And no accurate "witness" statement (from k2) to nail the sloots.

[Ono]

Ono - check the bottom of page 27, think I've fixed it now.  I deleted the first post where it was mixed in the middle.

  Klass: You are the best! Thanks!!