Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #40

[anothermonkey]

It seems like there was a plethora of items in the skanks trunk.....something like 30+ items sent to the lab for analysis

The list of items in the trunk.. that list that was posted over at WS, I believe.. was bogus.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I was unaware that anyone searched for Zenaida Gonzalez prior to July 15th

Do you mean June 15th? I believe the searches started in June, IIRC.

sorry, yes I meant June, but my point was, I was unaware any zanaida searches were done prior to the date of caylee's death....

That's correct, as far as I know.  I think before that point, the babysitter (Xanax=Zanny) didn't have a person to go with the nickname.. she had to find somebody, get the dirt on them, and use that in her story of what happened to Caylee.

Wasn't Casey telling Tony(the fired ex cop)about a nanny back in May 2008?I'm not sure she mentioned zanny the nanny but she did mention a nanny.

[Katysmom]

About the chloroform –

Someone with insider info (HH or Des) dropped a hint here a while back that LE thinks that Caylee died in the pool because of the presence of the chloroform – apparently when chlorinated water mixes with the ammonia in a dirty diaper, chloroform can be produced and so that’s their theory.  (I did some quick searches and found yes this can happen with chlorine and ammonia) -

See.. this is what doesn't make any sense.  We're being told that the body farm air samples  prove the chloroform was pure... NOT produced from a reaction of different chemicals. So I'd like to know which it really is? 

Body Farm associate Lab/research facility...said...pure...Des

NG had some dr on her show.. has his own laboratory. I want to say his name is Dr Lemon but that's probably WAY off.    He was the one that stated if the air samples sniffed the chloroform, it would have been pure.. not a chemical reaction.  LE has not said anything either way...  I would assume that the lab guy knows what he's talking about..   which  means that the chloroform had nothing to do with Caylee being in a pool.   (Sound about right, Des?)

I fear that the quote regarding Dr. Lemon or whatever his name is, is sadly incorrect or is misquoted.  There is a question of expected concentrations, but the usual methodology does not allow for that.  If chloroform was found, it IS there.  Makes no difference where it came from.  Never does.  One feeds an air sample to the gas chromatograph which separates out and frectionates the various gaseous substances present.  The chromatograph can care less how the chloroform got there, whether through this bottle, or that bottle, or a pair of diapers soaked in chlorinated water.  If there is chloroform, it will be found.  It absolutely does not have to be in a "pure" form, whatever that means.  (No chemical substance is absolutely "pure" save in extraordinary conditions).  There's no mystery to this puzzle which has been presented.  The chromatograph can only detect the substance, but cannot give a history of that substance.  The substance cannot  lie.

I believe whoever ws on NG was misinterpreted either in the context of the question he was answering (which is not given here), or in his answer.  I do know that some of NG's experts have not been in the lab for decades and have trouble with some questions.
WAS

What if the chromatograph did not find any other drugs; would that be how they deducted it was "pure" chloroform?

[BooMonkey]

This is a CNN Transcript:

GRACE: And what happened on that day?

ANTHONY: I found out that she wasn`t where she said she was. I found out that Caylee was not in the city that she said she was and so when I found her and Caylee wasn`t with her like she had told me she was with her for the last month, then, you know, I asked her, "Well, let`s go get her because I miss her. I want to go see her. I want to bring her home so she can sleep in her bed."

And when she told me that, you know, it was to late to go because she was already sleeping at the babysitter`s house and, you know, why disrupt her because, you know, wake her up and then have to bring her home and then she`ll be up all night, let`s just go pick her up in the morning, and, you know, I said, no, I`m selfish, I want to see my granddaughter, I haven`t seen her in a month.

And I guess a little bit of tone in Casey`s voice, "no, mom," you know, she was pretty persistent and insistent, and then I got a gut feeling that -- I just knew something was wrong and Casey couldn`t tell me.

So I told her, you know, to either take me to her or I`m going to bring someone that could take me to her and so I told her that I was going to call the sheriff`s department if I didn`t.

GRACE: What did she say when you told her you were calling the sheriff?

ANTHONY: She said go ahead and call them. She said, you know, I know why where she`s at, I`ll tell them where she`s at. So, you know, I called them and by the time they got there, she was -- had told us that Caylee had been kidnapped. And Caylee was.

[higherhopes]

It seems like there was a plethora of items in the skanks trunk.....something like 30+ items sent to the lab for analysis

The list of items in the trunk.. that list that was posted over at WS, I believe.. was bogus.

Yea.....at one time someone over there put up a fake list.....I remember seeeing it discussed here!!!

[m2kfl]

Orlando is out of the question for trial. I don't know of any state that doesn't know about or country for that matter. In Toronto a lot of people are following this including LE. But there is a lot of people that don't read the paper or watch the news. They can get a jury, maybe they will send out 500 questionaires like they did for OJ.

There was a high profile case that was tried in Florida. It was the case of Jessica Lundsford. This case recieved even more publicity than the Caylee Anthony case is getting at this point.

Due to the tainted Jury pool in Lake County where the trial was first scheduled, it was changed to Miami where the sentence of Death was handed down to her murderer.

MURT

I don't care what county you live in.  You can't just kill a child and expect to walk away

I agree. Our form of justice operates on the assumption of innocence until guilt is proven. It is common in a high profile case such as this one to have a change of venue within the state in order to assure as an unbiased jury as possible. In the Lundsford case, the Miami Dade juristiction was chosed due to the high population and the startling revelation that a fairly low percentage of the potental jury pool followed the Lundsford case closely enough to be of concern to either the defense or prosecution.

I remember that I was one of those called for Jury duty in Lake county for the Lundsford trial and had to disqualify myself due to the extent I was posting about the case. The county soon  realized that there was not going to be a sufficent jury pool to try the case and chose to have the venue changed.

MURT

[KarmaRoundUp]

FYI
I found this on a U of F website....
This is about Jose's Daughter
http://grove.ufl.edu/~prssa/board.html
(Crossing my fingers the pictures are not too big)

Excellent find Misi! 

[m2kfl]

]Maybe if she was sent to the area that housed all the child offenders.  Other than that I am not quite sure what the circumstances would be.

Thank you for your opinion. 

Don't you think other child offenders would even be disgusted by her? Or not really?

That would be a serious case of the pot calling the kettle black...but you never know!  I say lets throw her in and see what happens..shall we!  LOL

Well, maybe it would be.. but that hasn't stopped many people from being murdered in prison for what they've done.   What about Jeffrey Dahmer? The guy who beat him to death killed his wife and blamed two young Black factory workers.

Dahmer was killed due to a break down in security where he was being held. His case actually led to some of the confinement restrictions that would be in place for such inmates as Casey.

MURT

[Katysmom]

Orlando is out of the question for trial. I don't know of any state that doesn't know about or country for that matter. In Toronto a lot of people are following this including LE. But there is a lot of people that don't read the paper or watch the news. They can get a jury, maybe they will send out 500 questionaires like they did for OJ.

There was a high profile case that was tried in Florida. It was the case of Jessica Lundsford. This case recieved even more publicity than the Caylee Anthony case is getting at this point.

Due to the tainted Jury pool in Lake County where the trial was first scheduled, it was changed to Miami where the sentence of Death was handed down to her murderer.

MURT

I don't care what county you live in.  You can't just kill a child and expect to walk away

I agree. Our form of justice operates on the assumption of innocence until guilt is proven. It is common in a high profile case such as this one to have a change of venue within the state in order to assure as an unbiased jury as possible. In the Lundsford case, the Miami Dade juristiction was chosed due to the high population and the startling revelation that a fairly low percentage of the potental jury pool followed the Lundsford case closely enough to be of concern to either the defense or prosecution.

I remember that I was one of those called for Jury duty in Lake county for the Lundsford trial and had to disqualify myself due to the extent I was posting about the case. The county soon  realized that there was not going to be a sufficent jury pool to try the case and chose to have the venue changed.

MURT

That case was a heart breaker

[strayze]

About the chloroform –

Someone with insider info (HH or Des) dropped a hint here a while back that LE thinks that Caylee died in the pool because of the presence of the chloroform – apparently when chlorinated water mixes with the ammonia in a dirty diaper, chloroform can be produced and so that’s their theory.  (I did some quick searches and found yes this can happen with chlorine and ammonia) -

See.. this is what doesn't make any sense.  We're being told that the body farm air samples  prove the chloroform was pure... NOT produced from a reaction of different chemicals. So I'd like to know which it really is? 

Body Farm associate Lab/research facility...said...pure...Des

NG had some dr on her show.. has his own laboratory. I want to say his name is Dr Lemon but that's probably WAY off.    He was the one that stated if the air samples sniffed the chloroform, it would have been pure.. not a chemical reaction.  LE has not said anything either way...  I would assume that the lab guy knows what he's talking about..   which  means that the chloroform had nothing to do with Caylee being in a pool.   (Sound about right, Des?)

I fear that the quote regarding Dr. Lemon or whatever his name is, is sadly incorrect or is misquoted.  There is a question of expected concentrations, but the usual methodology does not allow for that.  If chloroform was found, it IS there.  Makes no difference where it came from.  Never does.  One feeds an air sample to the gas chromatograph which separates out and frectionates the various gaseous substances present.  The chromatograph can care less how the chloroform got there, whether through this bottle, or that bottle, or a pair of diapers soaked in chlorinated water.  If there is chloroform, it will be found.  It absolutely does not have to be in a "pure" form, whatever that means.  (No chemical substance is absolutely "pure" save in extraordinary conditions).  There's no mystery to this puzzle which has been presented.  The chromatograph can only detect the substance, but cannot give a history of that substance.  The substance cannot  lie.

I believe whoever ws on NG was misinterpreted either in the context of the question he was answering (which is not given here), or in his answer.  I do know that some of NG's experts have not been in the lab for decades and have trouble with some questions.
WAS

What if the chromatograph did not find any other drugs; would that be how they deducted it was "pure" chloroform?

No.  The only thing that gas testing tells us is that chloroform IS present.  It does not give us a history of those chloroform molecules found.  There is no way to mark the chloroform molecules so that they can be discerned from other chloroform molecules.  The air sampling and testing simply identifies those gaseous substances present.

[Orchidwmn]

Murt,
Could you take a look at this website? http://www.rcfp.org/secretjustice/grandjuries/pg1.html

I read this (no expert) to mean that if there was anything turned over to the defense then it could become public record? Am I just trying to read that.

Also, do you expect there will be another document dump after Thursday when Baez gets the information from this last hearing?

TIA and Welcome to the cage!

This may be a repeat post, I seem to be having issues today, Sorry if so.

[SweetMorgan]

Ok here is the link to the other Zenaida Gonzalez. It is Brevard County Moms . I have no idea how close Brevard County is to Orlando. I know she was broken into or at least her office. Then when this case broke she wrote she was not that Zenaida.

http://brevardcounty.momslikeme.com/members/viewprofile.aspx?u=ZenaidaGonzalez

Brevard County would be about 60 miles from Orlando.

[misitx5]

FYI
I found this on a U of F website....
This is about Jose's Daughter
http://grove.ufl.edu/~prssa/board.html
(Crossing my fingers the pictures are not too big)

Excellent find Misi! 

Thank You and BooMonkey I just thought it would give some info on Baez' daughter...

[Katysmom]

FYI
I found this on a U of F website....
This is about Jose's Daughter
http://grove.ufl.edu/~prssa/board.html
(Crossing my fingers the pictures are not too big)

Excellent find Misi! 

Thank You and BooMonkey I just thought it would give some info on Baez' daughter...

I'm not so sure I would admit or put on a resume that "my dad" hired me.  And, she may regret being involved in this case later

[islandmonkey]

I thought it was pure chloroform also, and here is the link and brief message:
Local Chemist Calls Chloroform In Anthony's Car 'Definitive'

Sources with knowledge of the investigation told WESH 2 that air samples from Casey Anthony's car came back positive for vaporized chloroform.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," chemist Jeff Flowers said.

Flowers has testified in state and federal court as an expert and said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from cleaning products, human body fluids or a mixture of anything else. Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible. That solvent could knock out the driver of the car. It's a very dangerous thing to have that material in your car," Flowers said.

He also said that these kinds of tests to detect vaporized chloroform are very common and admissible in court.

"I can name 30 labs in Florida that are absolutely scientifically inrefutable on that test. It's a very common test," Flowers said.
 
http://www.wesh.com/news/17392699/detail.html

[AZLady]

FYI
I found this on a U of F website....
This is about Jose's Daughter
http://grove.ufl.edu/~prssa/board.html
(Crossing my fingers the pictures are not too big)

Excellent find Misi! 

Thank You and BooMonkey I just thought it would give some info on Baez' daughter...

I'm not so sure I would admit or put on a resume that "my dad" hired me.  And, she may regret being involved in this case later

I think I'm missing something.  I don't see anything about Baez's daughter at that link.  What is the relevance of the linked material?

[higherhopes]

Ok here is the link to the other Zenaida Gonzalez. It is Brevard County Moms . I have no idea how close Brevard County is to Orlando. I know she was broken into or at least her office. Then when this case broke she wrote she was not that Zenaida.

http://brevardcounty.momslikeme.com/members/viewprofile.aspx?u=ZenaidaGonzalez

Brevard County would be about 60 miles from Orlando.

Yes this is a town called Melborne and it is a beach town that neighbors Orlando......

[m2kfl]

Orlando is out of the question for trial. I don't know of any state that doesn't know about or country for that matter. In Toronto a lot of people are following this including LE. But there is a lot of people that don't read the paper or watch the news. They can get a jury, maybe they will send out 500 questionaires like they did for OJ.

There was a high profile case that was tried in Florida. It was the case of Jessica Lundsford. This case recieved even more publicity than the Caylee Anthony case is getting at this point.

Due to the tainted Jury pool in Lake County where the trial was first scheduled, it was changed to Miami where the sentence of Death was handed down to her murderer.

MURT

Signing in for one post. Welcome Murt. I have been reading your site as well as many others.
 So glad you mentioned Jessica Lunsford. Another child who did not deserve what fate brought her and her family. I try very hard not to say negative things about Caylee's family. I do not always succeed. I just remember how Mark Lunsford and his parent and even a niece and her hubby were treated while Jessica was missing.

I also have been thinking Mark Lunsford is now a very admired person. He might be a good person for Tim Miller to get involved in the search for Caylee. I know he also has a lot of biker friends.

Mark Lundsford was crucified by the blogs and the media for quite some time until the truth finally came out. All the rampant rumors we see here were made about him as well. All kinds of sorted accusations about him and his family circulated until, finally, Jessica was found.

We have not learned the lessons of that case. The plight of a missing child releases emotions that are hard to control. This case is a testiment to that fact.

MURT

[klaasend]

Welcome SweetMorgan!

[anothermonkey]

I thought it was pure chloroform also, and here is the link and brief message:
Local Chemist Calls Chloroform In Anthony's Car 'Definitive'

Sources with knowledge of the investigation told WESH 2 that air samples from Casey Anthony's car came back positive for vaporized chloroform.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," chemist Jeff Flowers said.

Flowers has testified in state and federal court as an expert and said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from cleaning products, human body fluids or a mixture of anything else. Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible. That solvent could knock out the driver of the car. It's a very dangerous thing to have that material in your car," Flowers said.

He also said that these kinds of tests to detect vaporized chloroform are very common and admissible in court.

"I can name 30 labs in Florida that are absolutely scientifically inrefutable on that test. It's a very common test," Flowers said.
 
http://www.wesh.com/news/17392699/detail.html

  (laughing that I thought the guy's name was Lemon. I did remember it was something "different", though. )

Thank you for posting that!!