Natalee Case Discussion #783 12/6/08 - 12/8/08

[Tamikosmom]

Pita, ldstlou, and Hotshot

Hugs.

The Persistence undertaking should be open to scrutiny.  There is an expression ... "Along with sheckles comes shackles."  In other words ... accountability is where it is at.

Those who donated to the search effort through TES were under the impression that the finding of Natalee Holloway's remains was the objective but ... that objective had an outcome ... justice for Natalee and ... a measure of closure for her family.

Without ... justice for Natalee and ... a measure of closure for her family ... being the motive for the undertaking ... the entire effort was futile.  It was better that the trap and its contents stayed at the bottom of the ocean ... waiting to be discovered by someone who would take the appropriate avenues to protect the evidence from the enemy ... protect the evidence from those who had an agenda to destory it.

When I read one of Kyle's first posts on SM ... I had a gut feeling the family were on another ride on the roller coaster from H---.  The ride up was hope but ... the ride down would be despair ... despair that is derived from deception.

Janet

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457


DR. PHIL
January 29, 2006

BETH: There are times when we're thinking that we need to continue, and of course we're still searching for answers, but it's this rollercoaster ride. And it makes me so angry, Dr. Phil, when I let myself fall for information coming out of an official who represents the island of Aruba. If somebody presents you with false hope and false information, it's devastating.
http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=1&slide=3&null=null

 

[crazybabyborg]

Whatever is shaking in this box next to me is about to get the stuffing knocked out of it. lol

I'm on the edge I tell ya.  lol

Gotcha covered, Snoopy:

[klaasend]

Thanks Caesu

[Helen Back]

Thanks, Caesu.

I'll take it as a good sign as well.  All the political posturing makes it difficult to understand what's really going on, and where the power lies.

Here's hoping.

[MuffyBee]

Whatever is shaking in this box next to me is about to get the stuffing knocked out of it. lol

I'm on the edge I tell ya.  lol

Gotcha covered, Snoopy:

Oh, look! It's a pinanta! 

[Pita]

Kermit I asked this:

who are experts

would you prefer not to answer?

Sorry johann I was trying my best to answer the other questions from way back and still can't get to them.
BUT to answer YOUR question, at this time, the FBI does have the information as well as Beth and Dave and John Q. Kelly.

The information about the experts (names etc .)  or what there was in the cage ?

ALL INFORMATION was handed over to the individuals I listed.

So the fbi, Dave and Beth know more than we know?
Or am i wrong ?

The information was not given to Beth nor Dave nor the FBI by Kyle. He admitted he withheld it.
FOR MONTHS after his return from the search in Aruba wherein he had photos and information.

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

Recently, the information has been given to Beth, Dave and the FBI.

Kermit, this is what confuses me.  According to private eye's (Beth's brother) post of March 20, 2008, he was aware of the alledged blue denim, so this indicates the family knew about the pictures in March.  Was private eye a member of the private site?  Could this be a reason Kyle felt comfortable discussing the pictures since a family member was privy to the discussion?   According to his post, he did bring it to Beth's attention at that time.   

private eye Reply #448 on: March 20, 2008, 02:18:50 PM  :
snipped...

Kyle- I emailed Beth your concerns and have suggested to her that she contact the appropriate people on the Persistence, including yourself, and attempt to reconcile as best they can the material the crew saw recovered from the cage versus what they received. I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made, and reminded her that the press release said that the material did not match her blouse. I also pointed out that in the December 30 photo there appeared to be a skull and in the January 7, it did not look at all like a skull. But I did think I noticed a second object in one of the zip lock bags that could possibly be the object that resembled a skull, possibly. I am a little amazed that the denim looks remarkably NOT deteriorated. Mostly I was trying to pique her interest to get her to contact the appropriate people. I think Dave worked closely with the owner of the boat, so he may well have already done this. But I know Beth appreciates the heads up, as do I. You are a good man. I did tell her my main concern was that you were concerned, and that I respect and trust your judgment enough for her to investigate this. Thanks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367178#msg367178

Pita ... does that following words of Kyle and Beth's brother imply to your that the Persistence search effort was about locating Natalee Holloways remains to bring about closure for the family or ... does it imply the undertaking was all about assisting in the Aruban ongoing agenda to destory all evidence that implicate Joran and Paulus van der Sloot in the happenings in the wee hours of May 30, 2005.

Janet

_____


ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy.  The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

Janet, IMO, I would say a little bit of both.  They were in Aruban waters and had to comply with Aruban law.  Once Kyle realized their hands were tied due to chain of custody, it appears Kyle did not trust them.  This is why he covertly took the pictures with the ROV to have some proof of what was in the trap in the event the Arubans were not forthright with the evidence (which it appears they weren't.)  What if he didn't take the pictures?  The family would have nothing.  This scenario was about finding Natalee.

On the other hand, being that the Arubans possessed all finds, private eye was correct in saying the effort was superb, but the game was fixed.  It was that way from the beginning.  Remember how the FBI was invited, then uninvited, when it came to interrogations of suspects and review of evidence.  Same thing with the Persistence endeavor.

I wish they would have sent a diver down to sample the evidence before the Aruban team came in to remove it.  Who knows, maybe they did.

[snoopy]

Oh my goodness!!  I bout fell outta my chair CBB.  How funny!!

Now if I could take that stick and hit my baby boy over the noggin a few times to keep studying for his finals tomm.  I'd be in good shape.  That boy's driving me outta my mind. lol

Having a 19 yr old male in the house is very weird ya'll. lol  He's gonna be the death of me yet. lol  And I caught him snooping in the Christmas presents.  He doesn't know I switched the name tags. lol

Oh I really shoulda went to church this morning. lol

[Keepthefaith]

Hotshot???

Why should Kermit post it?Kyle is welcome to post here anytime correct?"If" the FBI,as well as Dave and Beth were given ALL stuff by Kyle before anyone else did.Who cares what Kermit is posting??So either Kyle is punishing SM by not posting the TRUTH,and or he's concerned with what is being brought forth.The need to not speak for oneself personally is typically a legal one.I'll be the first to eat crow when necessary!!

[Helen Back]

You're right Frank.

What did Paulus and Uncle Jan do?  Why did they need a 10 day head start?

Why did Paulus lie about meeting Natalee in the casino?  and everything else that happened that night?

Maybe if someone would drag in Uncle Jan and Paulus and ask them, they would tell us.

Hans Mos could do it, but he's pretty busy golfing and packing for his trip home.

Maybe Rudy could ask them.

[Keepthefaith]

You're right Frank.

What did Paulus and Uncle Jan do?  Why did they need a 10 day head start?

Why did Paulus lie about meeting Natalee in the casino?  and everything else that happened that night?

Maybe if someone would drag in Uncle Jan and Paulus and ask them, they would tell us.

Hans Mos could do it, but he's pretty busy golfing and packing for his trip home.

Maybe Rudy could ask them.

Maybe Hans doesn't want the cage treatment????

[Pita]

Okay, Pita, ldstlou, and Hotshot--you all have detention after school today.  The lesson will be on the characteristics of OBFUSCATION.  Please read back for a definition and examples.  You will all write the word and its definition 100 times on the chalk board.  Please do not notify us when you are finished.  Carry on, now.
 

I'm not here to obfuscate the truth.  Just trying to make sense of it.  I don't appreciate your sarcasm.   Carry on.....

[Tamikosmom]

Pita, ldstlou, and Hotshot

Hugs.

The Persistence undertaking should be open to scrutiny.  There is an expression ... "Along with sheckles comes shackles."  In other words ... accountability is where it is at.

Those who donated to the search effort through TES were under the impression that the finding of Natalee Holloway's remains was the objective but ... that objective had an outcome ... justice for Natalee and ... a measure of closure for her family.

Without ... justice for Natalee and ... a measure of closure for her family ... being the motive for the undertaking ... the entire effort was futile.  It was better that the trap and its contents stayed at the bottom of the ocean ... waiting to be discovered by someone who would take the appropriate avenues to protect the evidence from the enemy ... protect the evidence from those who had an agenda to destory it.

When I read one of Kyle's first posts on SM ... I had a gut feeling the family were on another ride on the roller coaster from H---.  The ride up was hope but ... the ride down would be despair ... despair that is derived from deception.

Janet

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457


DR. PHIL
January 29, 2006

BETH: There are times when we're thinking that we need to continue, and of course we're still searching for answers, but it's this rollercoaster ride. And it makes me so angry, Dr. Phil, when I let myself fall for information coming out of an official who represents the island of Aruba. If somebody presents you with false hope and false information, it's devastating.
http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=1&slide=3&null=null

 

The Persistence may have found Natalee remains but ... we will never know because somehow ... protecting those remains from destruction by the enemy was not a priority.

The following are the words from someone who was aboard the Persistence throughout the entire search effort ... someone who observed ... someone who listened.

Janet

++++++

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763

[Keepthefaith]

Okay, Pita, ldstlou, and Hotshot--you all have detention after school today.  The lesson will be on the characteristics of OBFUSCATION.  Please read back for a definition and examples.  You will all write the word and its definition 100 times on the chalk board.  Please do not notify us when you are finished.  Carry on, now.
 

I'm not here to obfuscate the truth.  Just trying to make sense of it.  I don't appreciate your sarcasm.   Carry on.....

Kyle(OE) apparently could bring some of that here.NO????Maybe not??We'll never know unless he speaks for himself which,to this point,he's been unwilling to do.At SM anyways.Monkey's are inquisitive and do ask tough questions from time to time..

[Pita]

Pita,
According to what PI said, Beth was reluctant to look at
the pictures.  I can only imagine why she was reluctant.
I can only surmise, from what I have observed, that Beth
had sense enough to know where the pictures originated.

Yes, I certainly can understand her reluctance.

[Lifesong]

So the fbi, Dave and Beth know more than we know?
Or am i wrong ?

The information was not given to Beth nor Dave nor the FBI by Kyle. He admitted he withheld it.
FOR MONTHS after his return from the search in Aruba wherein he had photos and information.

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

Recently, the information has been given to Beth, Dave and the FBI.

Kermit, this is what confuses me.  According to private eye's (Beth's brother) post of March 20, 2008, he was aware of the alledged blue denim, so this indicates the family knew about the pictures in March.  Was private eye a member of the private site?  Could this be a reason Kyle felt comfortable discussing the pictures since a family member was privy to the discussion?   According to his post, he did bring it to Beth's attention at that time.   

private eye Reply #448 on: March 20, 2008, 02:18:50 PM  :
snipped...

Kyle- I emailed Beth your concerns and have suggested to her that she contact the appropriate people on the Persistence, including yourself, and attempt to reconcile as best they can the material the crew saw recovered from the cage versus what they received. I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made, and reminded her that the press release said that the material did not match her blouse. I also pointed out that in the December 30 photo there appeared to be a skull and in the January 7, it did not look at all like a skull. But I did think I noticed a second object in one of the zip lock bags that could possibly be the object that resembled a skull, possibly. I am a little amazed that the denim looks remarkably NOT deteriorated. Mostly I was trying to pique her interest to get her to contact the appropriate people. I think Dave worked closely with the owner of the boat, so he may well have already done this. But I know Beth appreciates the heads up, as do I. You are a good man. I did tell her my main concern was that you were concerned, and that I respect and trust your judgment enough for her to investigate this. Thanks.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg367178#msg367178

Pita ... does that following words of Kyle and Beth's brother imply to your that the Persistence search effort was about locating Natalee Holloways remains to bring about closure for the family or ... does it imply the undertaking was all about assisting in the Aruban ongoing agenda to destory all evidence that implicate Joran and Paulus van der Sloot in the happenings in the wee hours of May 30, 2005.

Janet

_____


ocean exploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857#msg366857

private eye (Beth Holloway's Brother)
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy.  The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

Janet, IMO, I would say a little bit of both.  They were in Aruban waters and had to comply with Aruban law.  Once Kyle realized their hands were tied due to chain of custody, it appears Kyle did not trust them.  This is why he covertly took the pictures with the ROV to have some proof of what was in the trap in the event the Arubans were not forthright with the evidence (which it appears they weren't.)  What if he didn't take the pictures?  The family would have nothing.  This scenario was about finding Natalee.

On the other hand, being that the Arubans possessed all finds, private eye was correct in saying the effort was superb, but the game was fixed.  It was that way from the beginning.  Remember how the FBI was invited, then uninvited, when it came to interrogations of suspects and review of evidence.  Same thing with the Persistence endeavor.

I wish they would have sent a diver down to sample the evidence before the Aruban team came in to remove it.  Who knows, maybe they did.

Pita,

With all due respect, the Aruban authorities themselves do not obey Aruban law, the crew of the Persistence didn't have to either if their real mission was to bring Natalee home.

Also, do the specially selected smart people solving the case in their secret forum really believe that the FBI only goes where they are invited? 

Why have undercover agents then? 

We're all over the globe where we're not invited.  Come on....don't expect us to believe that. 

If they didn't plan on getting any evidence before ALE could get it, then Silvetti & Shaefer could and should have worked with the FBI/State Dept/CIA before ever leaving American shores to get an undercover agent on that boat.  I hope they did and none of us know that.  If not, then I think it perhaps was not their sole purpose in going.

Furthermore, I can't imagine anyone with thinking abilities would actually believe that Kyle didn't know what to do with the pictures/footage and was helplessly frustrated.  Even if he didn't want to go to the FBI and didn't know how to contact Beth, he could have contacted JQK.  Doesn't take an oceanographer to figure that out.

JMO

[Keepthefaith]

Pita, ldstlou, and Hotshot

Hugs.

The Persistence undertaking should be open to scrutiny.  There is an expression ... "Along with sheckles comes shackles."  In other words ... accountability is where it is at.

Those who donated to the search effort through TES were under the impression that the finding of Natalee Holloway's remains was the objective but ... that objective had an outcome ... justice for Natalee and ... a measure of closure for her family.

Without ... justice for Natalee and ... a measure of closure for her family ... being the motive for the undertaking ... the entire effort was futile.  It was better that the trap and its contents stayed at the bottom of the ocean ... waiting to be discovered by someone who would take the appropriate avenues to protect the evidence from the enemy ... protect the evidence from those who had an agenda to destory it.

When I read one of Kyle's first posts on SM ... I had a gut feeling the family were on another ride on the roller coaster from H---.  The ride up was hope but ... the ride down would be despair ... despair that is derived from deception.

Janet

++++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal. 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457


DR. PHIL
January 29, 2006

BETH: There are times when we're thinking that we need to continue, and of course we're still searching for answers, but it's this rollercoaster ride. And it makes me so angry, Dr. Phil, when I let myself fall for information coming out of an official who represents the island of Aruba. If somebody presents you with false hope and false information, it's devastating.
http://www.drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/3041/?id=1&slide=3&null=null

 

The Persistence may have found Natalee remains but ... we will never know because somehow ... protecting those remains from destruction by the enemy was not a priority.

The following are the words from someone who was aboard the Persistence throughout the entire search effort ... someone who observed ... someone who listened.

Janet

++++++

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Klye stated: " We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

Kyle stated: "neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge."

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763

Answers.We need answers........

[Helen Back]

You're right Frank.

What did Paulus and Uncle Jan do?  Why did they need a 10 day head start?

Why did Paulus lie about meeting Natalee in the casino?  and everything else that happened that night?

Maybe if someone would drag in Uncle Jan and Paulus and ask them, they would tell us.

Hans Mos could do it, but he's pretty busy golfing and packing for his trip home.

Maybe Rudy could ask them.

Maybe Hans doesn't want the cage treatment????

Or the Pitbull, suicide treatment?

[Pita]

Okay, Pita, ldstlou, and Hotshot--you all have detention after school today.  The lesson will be on the characteristics of OBFUSCATION.  Please read back for a definition and examples.  You will all write the word and its definition 100 times on the chalk board.  Please do not notify us when you are finished.  Carry on, now.
 

I'm not here to obfuscate the truth.  Just trying to make sense of it.  I don't appreciate your sarcasm.   Carry on.....

Kyle(OE) apparently could bring some of that here.NO????Maybe not??We'll never know unless he speaks for himself which,to this point,he's been unwilling to do.At SM anyways.Monkey's are inquisitive and do ask tough questions from time to time..

Maybe in time he will.  But I did read a post of his where he was asked by the FBI not to comment on confidential information.  I'm guessing this is why the silence. 

[Buckeye]

Personally, I don't understand why anyone or any group is keeping anything quiet.

The bit about an ongoing investigation, and someone hurting it, is laughable.

The only "investigation" is Aruban....by law....not even the FBI can or will act autonomously.

The only hope is that the everyday person raises enough objection/noise that it attracts attention....be it media, congressmen...whatever.  Then there might be a chance of an international (interpol?) body looking into things.  Posting, discussing, disseminating info is not going to shut down or change the chance of an investigation.  Keeping quiet might.

I applaud FreeBirds collection, but I always believe a lot of everyday, concerned citizens contributed (maybe not compiled) to it's contents.

If you have an issue with an individual, that you were involved with, in a secret hidey hole, my guess is you have his/her contact info.  Please send them hateful, challenging messages directly.  If you feel the need to clarify a post then post a link or a copy....that's what the rest of us "normal" posters do.  If you don't want to then take it back to the hole.  IMO

[Helen Back]

LIfesong,

I'm starting to like you a lot!