Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 - 10/17/10

[Rob]

In my opinion,

The MFH had probable cause. You have two people tied to each other through electronic records. That gets it off the ground.

However, with the sting - it was still in the investigative stage.

The investigation fizzled out. The MFH began and ENDED there.

As NRCG said - he said / she said.

[Rob]

re the MFH.  I had a neighbor who did that.  The guy who was asked to do the deed went to LE .  LE wired him and they got the goods on my neighbor.  Until that point, all it was was an interesting story to LE.  Same with TH.  No goods on her; consequently no arrest.

Of course Kaine wants to know where the $350,000 came from.  He said that she was spending money like water.  What if she was stashing money over the years and it in fact is partially his.  I would want my $175,000 back.  No, I would not want to gift it to her.

If Terri has done nothing, what's the big deal about incriminating herself?  Obviously, she has something that she has done that is incriminating and criminal.

with all due respect - where does it end?

Can they question her about events before she married Kaine, and any crimes that may have taken place then?

Can the government bring up a case that they suspected her of 10 years ago? but has no relevance to this issue?

There are safe guards in place for a reason.

- with all due respect -

[Puzzler]

Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.

The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.

The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.

I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.

The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.

One absolutely did cause the other IMO

I concur. However, what evidence cause the MFH investigation / sting. That would need to be revealed and COULD PLACE the government is a compromising situation. There were no arrests, and Terri call the police. It's tricky.

If the government has to admit they had no evidence, or evidence to the contrary and took the word of an "illegal" alien, or it is revealed that RS has harassed Terri - that case goes out the window along with all their credibility.

It's a dangerous legal situation - in my opinion.

If there is truly evidence in the MFH plot - the police may have acted inappropriately in NOT arresting her, charging her, and trying her.

If they had any of that - they would have moved on an arrest - not a sting.

in my opinion. 

I agree.  IMO, LE set up the sting "because" there was not enough evidence for an arrest.  The sting failed.  It appears now that it's he said/she said.  LE told Kaine about the MFH plot while Terri was taking a LDT.  IMO, LE did this to put more pressure on Terri  - they really wanted to get proof that she did it and they wanted to put pressure on her and make her break (interrogations, LDT's, Kaine leaving house, taking Kiara)...however, that failed, too.
It seems like LE has been very energetic and single-focused on putting all the pressure to bear on Terri and I totally understand that if they thinks she's guilty; however, to use the MFH plot so aggressively without proof, to put Kaine under the stress that his wife wants him dead when he's alreadly has a missing son, to put that information out to the public - all based on the word of a know liar, Rudy.  Somehow that just doesn't seem like a logical thing to do.  Looking back, it's not working out so well and maybe would have been better up front to get some conrete facts first.

Fruit of the poisoneous tree coming back to bite them.

 

[klaasend]

Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.

The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.

The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.

I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.

The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.

One absolutely did cause the other IMO

I concur. However, what evidence cause the MFH investigation / sting. That would need to be revealed and COULD PLACE the government is a compromising situation. There were no arrests, and Terri call the police. It's tricky.

If the government has to admit they had no evidence, or evidence to the contrary and took the word of an "illegal" alien, or it is revealed that RS has harassed Terri - that case goes out the window along with all their credibility.

It's a dangerous legal situation - in my opinion.

If there is truly evidence in the MFH plot - the police may have acted inappropriately in NOT arresting her, charging her, and trying her.

If they had any of that - they would have moved on an arrest - not a sting.

in my opinion.  

WHAT IF - at that time they had a small hope that Kyron was still alive.  Their main focus was/is Kyron and the MFH, sexting, divorce are all peripheral to Kyron missing.  They want to prosecute for what was done to Kyron and the prosecution for any attempt to harm Kaine can wait.

That said, we have no way of knowing if any indictments have already been handed down.

[klaasend]

I would like to add one more thing...

I bet Terri is sweating bullets right now with the continued searches on Sauvie Island.  The longer it takes to find Kyron's body the more evidence gets denigrated by the elements. 

Yes, I believe Kyron is dead and Terri is responsible.  Whether by her hands or someone elses hands, Terri is responsible.  MOO

[Gypsy DD]

Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.

The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.

The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.

I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.

The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.

One absolutely did cause the other IMO

I concur. However, what evidence cause the MFH investigation / sting. That would need to be revealed and COULD PLACE the government is a compromising situation. There were no arrests, and Terri call the police. It's tricky.

If the government has to admit they had no evidence, or evidence to the contrary and took the word of an "illegal" alien, or it is revealed that RS has harassed Terri - that case goes out the window along with all their credibility.

It's a dangerous legal situation - in my opinion.

If there is truly evidence in the MFH plot - the police may have acted inappropriately in NOT arresting her, charging her, and trying her.

If they had any of that - they would have moved on an arrest - not a sting.

in my opinion.  

WHAT IF - at that time they had a small hope that Kyron was still alive.  Their main focus was/is Kyron and the MFH, sexting, divorce are all peripheral to Kyron missing.  They want to prosecute for what was done to Kyron and the prosecution for any attempt to harm Kaine can wait.

That said, we have no way of knowing if any indictments have already been handed down.

ITA Klaas.

They may have evidence , be waiting on results and also be somewhat hog tied by another concurrent investigation that was already ongoing.

Suppose that they were investigating another criminal investigation..ICE, DEA AND FBI.  Suppose RS (or his associates) was already in their sights on that investigation.

If they arrest Terri tomorrow and can prove her role in any of this..as well as RS..but by doing that they tip their hand and miss the opportunity to catch a group of people who are the upper echelon of this group..then they may have won a small battle ..but they lost the war..and possibly that is why they are taking their time.  They want all the ducks..not just in a row but in jail.

I trust LE in this..Kaine, Desiree and Tony seem to be trusting them and they have more info at this point then we do.

I have to say in Desiree's last presser, before the weekend search..I felt her resolve to Kyron being alive had changed .  Even her wording of he is in God's hands now..or something like that..and then but he needs to be brought home.  Many times that is the language of a parent starting to realize their child maybe passed away.

[Puzzler]

Gypsy DD - your post is interesting - if I'm comprehending it correctly, you think that this is much bigger than just Terri/Rudy - that there's a group possibly involved.  Do you think it's drugs or maybe human trafficking?

[Gypsy DD]

Gypsy DD - your post is interesting - if I'm comprehending it correctly, you think that this is much bigger than just Terri/Rudy - that there's a group possibly involved.  Do you think it's drugs or maybe human trafficking?

I am not sure..I just think it is bigger then just Terri and LS.  LS must of had some criminal associations and Terri had to know that.  You just don't ask your friendly yard guy to off your husband..and you don't just randomly sext them either.  There seems to be something bigger involved here..just not clear on what.

Maybe Monkeys can follow a trail from RS to why he would have been in LE's sights prior to Jun 4th?

[no rose colored glasses]

Gypsy DD - your post is interesting - if I'm comprehending it correctly, you think that this is much bigger than just Terri/Rudy - that there's a group possibly involved.  Do you think it's drugs or maybe human trafficking?

What if Terri was involved with this Rudy or whatever his name is and some other people, and what ever they were up to was illegal. What if Terri wanted to break it off and stop being involved, and because of this Rudy and whoever took Kyron to get back. My question would be, because Terri got involved with something illegal, and because of revenge and Rudy took Kyron, I'm lost when it comes to legal issues with Terri. She may not have done anything with Kyron, but because she was involved with criminals and her connection made it to where Kyron was taken, if this might have happened, how does this get prosecuted as far as Terri goes?  Just something I was thinking about for a couple days.

[Gypsy DD]

Gypsy DD - your post is interesting - if I'm comprehending it correctly, you think that this is much bigger than just Terri/Rudy - that there's a group possibly involved.  Do you think it's drugs or maybe human trafficking?

What if Terri was involved with this Rudy or whatever his name is and some other people, and what ever they were up to was illegal. What if Terri wanted to break it off and stop being involved, and because of this Rudy and whoever took Kyron to get back. My question would be, because Terri got involved with something illegal, and because of revenge and Rudy took Kyron, I'm lost when it comes to legal issues with Terri. She may not have done anything with Kyron, but because she was involved with criminals and her connection made it to where Kyron was taken, if this might have happened, how does this get prosecuted as far as Terri goes?  Just something I was thinking about for a couple days.

IDK..NRCG.

I guess this is part of inviting the vampire into the house..you never know when they may come back to bite you.  I would be surprised if she wasn't somewhat aware that something like Kyron being kidnapped might happen..thus sending James away in January to her parents.

And the partof this I can't shake is the fact it looks like she was almost setting Kyron up to be kidnapped...the docs appt, the listen to all adults in a school setting, ..is that all just coincidence or did those things add up to her helping pave the way for this.

[melancholygirl]

Just out of curiosity, do we know if LE was aware of the MFH plot PRIOR to Kyron going missing?  I've always been under the impression that LE knew of this plot before he disappeared and it seemed to me to be a pretty big liability on the part of LE for not informing Kaine before his son's disappearance. 

Anyway - I'm a little confused about the MFH plot and think the timeline on that is kind of important.

[Puzzler]

Just out of curiosity, do we know if LE was aware of the MFH plot PRIOR to Kyron going missing?  I've always been under the impression that LE knew of this plot before he disappeared and it seemed to me to be a pretty big liability on the part of LE for not informing Kaine before his son's disappearance. 

Anyway - I'm a little confused about the MFH plot and think the timeline on that is kind of important.

All I know is that when Kyron went missing, LE checked Teri's phone records and found Rudy's number and tracked him down.  At that time is when I believe we're led to believe that Rudy talked about MFH.

Now...IF...I said "if"...Rudy did something with Kyron, he might have surmised that LE would check into immediate family (as LE always does in these types of cases) and he might have surmised LE would track him down because Rudy knew his number would come to light in an LE investigation.  If Rudy did something with Kyron, he could have had the MFH plot ready for LE to get the focus off him and onto Terri - because - we know that Rudy was angry with Terri.

[no rose colored glasses]

Gypsy DD - your post is interesting - if I'm comprehending it correctly, you think that this is much bigger than just Terri/Rudy - that there's a group possibly involved.  Do you think it's drugs or maybe human trafficking?

What if Terri was involved with this Rudy or whatever his name is and some other people, and what ever they were up to was illegal. What if Terri wanted to break it off and stop being involved, and because of this Rudy and whoever took Kyron to get back. My question would be, because Terri got involved with something illegal, and because of revenge and Rudy took Kyron, I'm lost when it comes to legal issues with Terri. She may not have done anything with Kyron, but because she was involved with criminals and her connection made it to where Kyron was taken, if this might have happened, how does this get prosecuted as far as Terri goes?  Just something I was thinking about for a couple days.

IDK..NRCG.

I guess this is part of inviting the vampire into the house..you never know when they may come back to bite you.  I would be surprised if she wasn't somewhat aware that something like Kyron being kidnapped might happen..thus sending James away in January to her parents.

And the partof this I can't shake is the fact it looks like she was almost setting Kyron up to be kidnapped...the docs appt, the listen to all adults in a school setting, ..is that all just coincidence or did those things add up to her helping pave the way for this.

Way more then what meets the eye. I don't know what to say, all coincidence or things set up to pave the way. Someday I'm sure we will know.

[no rose colored glasses]

Just out of curiosity, do we know if LE was aware of the MFH plot PRIOR to Kyron going missing?  I've always been under the impression that LE knew of this plot before he disappeared and it seemed to me to be a pretty big liability on the part of LE for not informing Kaine before his son's disappearance. 

Anyway - I'm a little confused about the MFH plot and think the timeline on that is kind of important.

All I know is that when Kyron went missing, LE checked Teri's phone records and found Rudy's number and tracked him down.  At that time is when I believe we're led to believe that Rudy talked about MFH.

Now...IF...I said "if"...Rudy did something with Kyron, he might have surmised that LE would check into immediate family (as LE always does in these types of cases) and he might have surmised LE would track him down because Rudy knew his number would come to light in an LE investigation.  If Rudy did something with Kyron, he could have had the MFH plot ready for LE to get the focus off him and onto Terri - because - we know that Rudy was angry with Terri.

Very possible, and I also believe the MFH plot came to light after Kyron went missing.

[fatcatlurker]

I would like to add one more thing...

I bet Terri is sweating bullets right now with the continued searches on Sauvie Island.  The longer it takes to find Kyron's body the more evidence gets denigrated by the elements. 

Yes, I believe Kyron is dead and Terri is responsible.  Whether by her hands or someone elses hands, Terri is responsible.  MOO

ITA and thank you for bringing back into focus why we are here...KYRON.

I still would love to know where this case would be if the roles were reversed here.  I just have a hunch this case would of bearly made the news if we were looking at Kaine as the "De facto Suspect" in the same circumstances.  JMO.

[no rose colored glasses]

I would like to add one more thing...

I bet Terri is sweating bullets right now with the continued searches on Sauvie Island.  The longer it takes to find Kyron's body the more evidence gets denigrated by the elements. 

Yes, I believe Kyron is dead and Terri is responsible.  Whether by her hands or someone elses hands, Terri is responsible.  MOO

ITA and thank you for bringing back into focus why we are here...KYRON.

I still would love to know where this case would be if the roles were reversed here.  I just have a hunch this case would of bearly made the news if we were looking at Kaine as the "De facto Suspect" in the same circumstances.  JMO.

I believe this case would have barely made the news if Kyron didn't go missing from a school, imo, it wouldn't of mattered if the stepmom or dad was suspect.

[Lazydog1]

If we are looking at RS being the one who in fact did something to or with Kyron. Also the possibility that he was already being investigated for something else and this is bigger than Kyron. Maybe the bigger than could include the other two missing children and their mother.
What if they were the first to go and then Kyron after that. A situation like that would certainly be a little  harder to pull together as they would now be looking for four (4) missing not just one. Then again maybe it was RS but someone he and TH have been involved in and still again a total for four missing not just one.

Then we can move on to the question of what did Kyron hear. Was it RS warning TH about what he had done to the others and threatening TH also thereby Kyron making the statement that his SM was dead. So he had to be gotten rid of also.

Just throwing it out there.

Praying Kyron is found and they are able to get the evidence they are looking for to continue into the justice phase of this case.

JMO

[no rose colored glasses]

If we are looking at RS being the one who in fact did something to or with Kyron. Also the possibility that he was already being investigated for something else and this is bigger than Kyron. Maybe the bigger than could include the other two missing children and their mother.
What if they were the first to go and then Kyron after that. A situation like that would certainly be a little  harder to pull together as they would now be looking for four (4) missing not just one. Then again maybe it was RS but someone he and TH have been involved in and still again a total for four missing not just one.

Then we can move on to the question of what did Kyron hear. Was it RS warning TH about what he had done to the others and threatening TH also thereby Kyron making the statement that his SM was dead. So he had to be gotten rid of also.

Just throwing it out there.

Praying Kyron is found and they are able to get the evidence they are looking for to continue into the justice phase of this case.

JMO

Thank-you for throwing that out there, interesting.

[Scatty]

I would like to add one more thing...

I bet Terri is sweating bullets right now with the continued searches on Sauvie Island.  The longer it takes to find Kyron's body the more evidence gets denigrated by the elements. 

Yes, I believe Kyron is dead and Terri is responsible.  Whether by her hands or someone elses hands, Terri is responsible.  MOO

I too now think Kyron is dead. It's very hard to take because for once in a missing person case, I had such a strong belief that he was alive. I can only imagine what Desiree must going through. I think by the last presser she held, Kaine had started to believe Kyron is not coming back and so didn't think upping the reward would help. I hope she turns out to be right in the end, and the rest of us are wrong.

[klaasend]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/searchers_continue_to_comb_sau.html

Searchers continue to comb Sauvie Island today in Kyron investigation despite rain
Published: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 10:13 AM     Updated: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 10:40 AM


A total of 80 searchers returned to Sauvie Island today for the second day of the second consecutive weekend in the search for Kyron Horman, the missing boy who disappeared four months ago.

Multnomah County Sheriff's Department spokeswoman Lt. Mary Lindstrand said searchers on the ground, horseback and with dogs were on the island despite the wet weather.