Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[Desdemona]

Oh Kat G, what foresight you had!  After seeing this am's Today show and hearing that TH hated Kyron and asked DY to take him back I am 100% TH did away with this child.  I had kinda defended her and just didn't want the main caregiver for little Ky to want him gone.  I see (IMO!!!) that KH's controlling ways might have led to what happened to Kyron now.  If my spouse hated my child that much do you think that I would ask that person to be his caregiver?  WTF????!!!  Was it all about winning to you Kaine?  Didn't want to pay child support?  <snipped>

BBM

  Whoa.  I realize you said "IMO," but where are we getting this assumption that Kaine KNEW that Terri "hated Kyron that much"??  I mean, Kaine obviously wasn't even aware that his dear wife hated HIM "that much" either -- secretly hated him so much that she would try to manipulate someone into murdering him for her ... y'know?

Respectfully, I believe the secret extent of Terri's pathology is only now coming to light, and I believe that Kaine will forever, for the rest of his life, punish himself quite sufficiently for real and perceived failings on his part that may have contributed to what happened to his little Kyron.  May others learn from Kaine's situation; perhaps some other little girl or boy may one day be spared a horrific end, because of the lessons learned in public cases like Kyron's. 

However, I believe the invective, public stigma, and blame for the harm that came to Kyron should be brought solely and squarely to the doorstep of the redheaded pathological nutter-butter-eater who harmed this precious little boy.  JMO.

[sassifrass]

Oh Kat G, what foresight you had!  After seeing this am's Today show and hearing that TH hated Kyron and asked DY to take him back I am 100% TH did away with this child.  I had kinda defended her and just didn't want the main caregiver for little Ky to want him gone.  I see (IMO!!!) that KH's controlling ways might have led to what happened to Kyron now.  If my spouse hated my child that much do you think that I would ask that person to be his caregiver?  WTF????!!!  Was it all about winning to you Kaine?  Didn't want to pay child support?  <snipped>

BBM

  Whoa.  I realize you said "IMO," but where are we getting this assumption that Kaine KNEW that Terri "hated Kyron that much"??  I mean, Kaine obviously wasn't even aware that his dear wife hated HIM "that much" either -- secretly hated him so much that she would try to manipulate someone into murdering him for her ... y'know?

Respectfully, I believe the secret extent of Terri's pathology is only now coming to light, and I believe that Kaine will forever, for the rest of his life, punish himself quite sufficiently for real and perceived failings on his part that may have contributed to what happened to his little Kyron.  May others learn from Kaine's situation; perhaps some other little girl or boy may one day be spared a horrific end, because of the lessons learned in public cases like Kyron's. 

However, I believe the invective, public stigma, and blame for the harm that came to Kyron should be brought solely and squarely to the doorstep of the redheaded pathological nutter-butter-eater who harmed this precious little boy.  JMO.

Excellent insight to your response Des, and I agree with you. There is no way that Kaine is responsible for what the squirrel may have done to Kyron, or have any idea that Kaine had prior knowledge to her hatred towards Kyron.

I just don't feel, IMO, that there should be angry words towards either Kaine or Desiree. They are both hurting very much and without a doubt, both of them clearly adored this sweet boy.

[Curly]

He may not have had prior knowledge of TH hatred towards his son, however, he was irresponsible by allowing someone with drinking problems to be the caretaker of his children. I'm sure this will haunt him for the rest of his life.

[no rose colored glasses]

If Terri had hatred towards Kyron, did nobody notice this at all? Maybe the teachers or someone? When I don't like someone it is very hard for me to hide my feelings and pretend that I like the person. Even James said she was good with Kyron, so she must be really good at hiding her feelings.

[mompalm]

Would anyone care to comment on why they think LE has shown Desiree those emails on Friday?  At least that's how I read it.  ICBW - tia

Can, I think they are just keeping her in the loop. It's possible that they had just received them from TH's friends although that would be a bit disconcerting if they held on to them that long before turning them over to LE.

I hadn't thought of that Sassi.  Thank you.  I assumed LE had them all along.
Indeed concerting if friends held on to that kind of email from a person who cannot account for 90 minutes of her time that fateful morning.

Wondering if this is why they searched houses of Terri's friends and possibly this is when the emails were obtained? Just seems odd if such an important piece of info was withheld from LE by Terri's friends until now.

Also, we don't know whether Kaine knew about the emails until today. However, seems logical that once LE decided to mention them to KH and DY, they might approach KH first just to find out if he had any idea about Terri's feelings about Kyron, since it was happening in his home? 

[sassifrass]

If Terri had hatred towards Kyron, did nobody notice this at all? Maybe the teachers or someone? When I don't like someone it is very hard for me to hide my feelings and pretend that I like the person. Even James said she was good with Kyron, so she must be really good at hiding her feelings.

Apparently the friends who received the emails knew. Why didn't they say something to Kaine about this? 

[no rose colored glasses]

If Terri had hatred towards Kyron, did nobody notice this at all? Maybe the teachers or someone? When I don't like someone it is very hard for me to hide my feelings and pretend that I like the person. Even James said she was good with Kyron, so she must be really good at hiding her feelings.

Apparently the friends who received the emails knew. Why didn't they say something to Kaine about this? 

That is what I'm not understanding?  And even people that she didn't send emails to, wonder if they saw a hatred directed towards Kyron?

[sassifrass]

If Terri had hatred towards Kyron, did nobody notice this at all? Maybe the teachers or someone? When I don't like someone it is very hard for me to hide my feelings and pretend that I like the person. Even James said she was good with Kyron, so she must be really good at hiding her feelings.

Apparently the friends who received the emails knew. Why didn't they say something to Kaine about this? 

That is what I'm not understanding?  And even people that she didn't send emails to, wonder if they saw a hatred directed towards Kyron?

Could this be why her and James were butting heads? Perhaps he was sticking up for Kyron? 

[klaasend]

http://www.kgw.com/news/Exclusive--Kyron-Hormans-Mom-Talks-About-Disturbing-Emails--108170584.html

Desiree: Emails show Terri hated Kyron & could hurt him


by Anne Yeager, KGW

kgw.com
Posted on November 15, 2010 at 8:10 AM
Updated today at 8:15 AM

MEDFORD, Ore. -- In an exclusive interview on NBC's Today Show, Kyron Horman's mother said she thinks the missing 7-year old's step-mom could have hurt her son "in the worst way."

Desiree Young appeared on Today Monday morning. She talked about explosive emails that police showed her just last Friday. The emails were sent to friends by Terri Moulton Horman, Kyron's step-mother, according to Young.

"I now believe without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she (Terri) capable of hurting Kyron, but that it's clear she could have hurt him in the worst possible way, " said Young, as she struggled to talk through the tears.

But what were in those emails?

Young said she couldn't go into specifics because of the ongoing investigation. But she didn't hold back about the ugly picture she said the emails painted.

"It's very clear from Terri’s horrible words that she had a severe hatred for Kyron and that she blamed a lot of the marital problems on Kyron," said Young.

Kyron Horman went missing from Skyline Elementary School on June 4th.  While Terri Horman has not been named as a suspect, she has clearly remained the focus of the investigation.

Desiree Young and Kyron's father Kaine Horman have long provided a united front in the search for their son.

But on Monday, Desiree indicated she was seriously disappointed with Kaine for failing to share with her information of Terri's alleged issues with alcohol.

"I just can't stand by and support the choices that he's making. He had several opportunities to let Tony (Desiree's husband) and I know what was going on and he did not, " she said.

Young also said that she tried to get custody of her son a year before Kyron disappeared, but Kaine would not allow it. Young said Terri even called her on the phone to urge her to take over custody of Kyron because he was so upset.

"He (Kyron) was exhibiting some problems in school, expressing a lot of sadness, and upset at the situation. Kyron on many occasions said he wanted to live with me, " she recalled.

NBC's Merideth Vierra ended the interview by asking Desiree if she still has hope that Kyron is still alive.

"I will until the day I die, " said Young.

Kaine has scheduled a press conference for 10:30 Monday, from the Wall of Hope created as a show of support from the community for Kyron and his family. KGW will cover that event.

[Desdemona]

Des--In your part about KH do you think that when DY asked to take Kyron back that she didn't say what her reasons were?  If she recieved emails from TH that asked her to take Ky and he was having trouble in school and begging to not go back to his permanent home don't you think that DY addressed it with Kaine?  I just feel like she isn't the type of person to out of the blue say can I have Kyron back without saying why.  I don't know but I feel such hostility toward KH right now I can't see straight.  He's dancing around the answers from the beginning!  From "was there any sign of trouble you could see in TH", to "she would pass out on the couch from drinking"!  How do you go from ordinary squabbles/troubles that all married couples have to she kept Kitty up at night while she passed out on the couch from drinking?  None of us would want to air our dirty laundry nor do we want to believe that our spouse would harm our child but you should never lie to LE about what is going on in your home when a child is missing.  Every iota of info is important.  Why did he hold back such important info?  Why not do what was best for Kyron and give living at Mom's a trial run till he could straighen out him home life?  I say his controlling ways has played a part in what has happened.  I am so sorry for saying that also.  It is his child that is missing but it is also DY's child and she did try to intervene.  There was evident trouble in that home and with Kyron and KH stood in the way of finding a solution other that what happened.  Would you have the person who blamed the trouble in your marriage taking almost complete care of your child.  I don't think you would and I definately would not!  I gotta go to work.  I'm sorry for being harsh and please I hope I didn't offend you this am.  What DY said this am has me burning to kick KH's butt!

Oops.  Just saw this, after making that last post.  No offense taken whatsoever; we all have a right to our personal opinions!  In response, please refer to my position stated above, that it seems quite unlikely to me that Kaine fully understood the extent of Terri's hatred, her pathological thoughts and behavior, and her capacity to hurt or kill another human being; much less an innocent child.  My impression is that he was probably trying to manage a troubling situation, doing damage control and hoping for the best; not realizing until it was too late how horrifically, tragically out of hand the damage might eventually become.

We were not in that home.  We simply do not know, and I always feel uncomfortable trying to speculate what was in the minds and hearts of people unless we have the whole story. 

Also, we do not know what Kaine and Desiree have shared with LE regarding "what went on in the home."  I would never presume to know what Kaine has or has not shared with LE, but I would assume that it is far more than we the public know about... ICBW, but from the information we have, I absolutely cannot agree with your assessment that Kaine has LIED to investigators!  (Per your comment above in blue.)  In no way do I have enough information to form an opinion about such an accusation against him, though I certainly respect your right to form your own.

Ah, and in answer to your question (BBM), it is my understanding from watching Desiree's segment this morning, that her request for custody of Kyron about a year ago was based on three things she mentioned in this interview:

1) Desiree felt that Terri had a personality disorder that featured (for one thing) pathological lying, which made her uneasy about Terri's character.

2) Kyron had sometimes cried when he had to go back home at the end of his visits in Medford, and had asked his mom if he could come and live with her and Tony.  He seemed rather unhappy and was having trouble in school.

3) Terri had indicated to Desiree that she would be okay with Kyron going to live with her.

...and probably another factor, which was not stated:

4) Desiree was remarried, stable, employed, and her health had improved.  Her situation had changed dramatically since the time when Kyron was a baby and Kaine had been given custody.

We don't know Kaine's reasons for believing at the time of Desiree's request for custody a year ago, that it would be best for Kyron to stay with him.  He had reasons for making that choice, whatever they were.  I prefer not to presume a selfish financial reason, or a petty or vengeful motive, when I have seen no such evidence.

And we have to remember that Terri was a husband-stealer in this story.  IMO there would naturally be no love lost between her and Desiree, and it is likely that throughout the years of Kaine's association with and marriage to Terri (which were the years of Kyron's short life), Desiree probably only barely tolerated this woman -- but seems to have done so for her child's sake.  Kaine would have to work to prevent the 'catfight factor' between these two women.  He may not have made all the right choices.  For instance, I noted that Desiree stated this morning that she did not even know about Terri's DUI conviction until after Kyron disappeared.  But a lot of this may have stemmed from Desiree's role as 'injured party' and Terri's as 'preferred replacement.'  When walking on eggshells, the best path is not always evident.  That is just my take on it.

   Love to all Monkeys.  We are all united in our concern for this dear little boy.

[Gypsy DD]

If Terri had hatred towards Kyron, did nobody notice this at all? Maybe the teachers or someone? When I don't like someone it is very hard for me to hide my feelings and pretend that I like the person. Even James said she was good with Kyron, so she must be really good at hiding her feelings.

Apparently the friends who received the emails knew. Why didn't they say something to Kaine about this? 

That is what I'm not understanding?  And even people that she didn't send emails to, wonder if they saw a hatred directed towards Kyron?

I would think that since very early on LE has had these emails..when they took the computers from the home.

I think it is interesting that they just shared these emails with Desiree on Friday..and then spent the weekend searching SI again.  Besides the cell pings, there must be other info that leads them to believe TMH disposed of him in water and on SI.  Didn't LE say there was a lot of water to search on SI ?

I really feel for Desiree and Kaine in this..hindsight is always so easy. 

I still want to know the real reason that Terri removed James from the home, why she would hurt Kyron rather then just leave herself.  Why in the heck she was apparently leading a double life.  Some friends cannot imagine her hurting a child and others receive emails showing real hatred towards Kyron.

[no rose colored glasses]

I will have to disagree on Terri being the husband stealer, she was, but Kaine allowed it all too happen as well, happens all the time, but two people are responsible for that.  I have no idea either what went on inside that house, but it doesn't sound like it was very pleasant the last months before Kyron disappeared.

[Desdemona]

(From the above article/video)

"I now believe without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she (Terri) capable of hurting Kyron, but that it's clear she could have hurt him in the worst possible way, " said Young, as she struggled to talk through the tears.

But what were in those emails?

Young said she couldn't go into specifics because of the ongoing investigation. But she didn't hold back about the ugly picture she said the emails painted.

"It's very clear from Terri’s horrible words that she had a severe hatred for Kyron and that she blamed a lot of the marital problems on Kyron," said Young.
--
This is pretty extreme, isn't it?  I fear greatly for our little frogman.   

[sassifrass]

If Terri had hatred towards Kyron, did nobody notice this at all? Maybe the teachers or someone? When I don't like someone it is very hard for me to hide my feelings and pretend that I like the person. Even James said she was good with Kyron, so she must be really good at hiding her feelings.

Apparently the friends who received the emails knew. Why didn't they say something to Kaine about this? 

That is what I'm not understanding?  And even people that she didn't send emails to, wonder if they saw a hatred directed towards Kyron?

I would think that since very early on LE has had these emails..when they took the computers from the home.

I think it is interesting that they just shared these emails with Desiree on Friday..and then spent the weekend searching SI again.  Besides the cell pings, there must be other info that leads them to believe TMH disposed of him in water and on SI.  Didn't LE say there was a lot of water to search on SI ?

I really feel for Desiree and Kaine in this..hindsight is always so easy. 

I still want to know the real reason that Terri removed James from the home, why she would hurt Kyron rather then just leave herself.  Why in the heck she was apparently leading a double life.  Some friends cannot imagine her hurting a child and others receive emails showing real hatred towards Kyron.

This is a question that Klaas may know. Since emails are stored on the emails server, if a person deletes their emails, can they be recovered on their personal computer? Somehow I don't thinks so. IMO

[can]

Would anyone care to comment on why they think LE has shown Desiree those emails on Friday?  At least that's how I read it.  ICBW - tia

1. I can venture a guess that Desiree is not often in Portland and that this was the first opportunity LE had to show them to her after they obtained and verified them.

2. I doubt she is given every detail of their investigation, just general, non-specific updates, but after Kaine's filings about Terri's drinking, this may have been a suitable time to give Desiree the emails.

Thanks Grey. 

I sure would like to know how long LE has been privy to those emails and can't help wonder (if they had them all along) if this firmed up their suspicions and led to their sharing with Kaine and Desiree from the outset.
Without mentioning the emails.

Maybe after reading the sexts and hearing about Terri's drinking problem via the media, Desiree stormed into the LE office and demanded to know what else they had on Terri. The task force had no choice but to fold and give her something.

We may never know the reason for the why and when of giving Desiree the emails, but I think they do give Desiree more reasons for focusing on Terri. She has suspected Terri but could not prove it. The emails back up her suspicions even more.

'The emails back up her suspicions even more" -

Oh boy, do they ever!

With the water search going on, I also wonder if they are, in their own way, trying to brace Desiree for the very worst outcome. 

[seahorse]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kyrons_mother_desiree_young_ap.html



Kyron's mother, Desiree Young, appears solo on Today Show saying Terri Horman had 'severe hatred for Kyron'


Published: Monday, November 15, 2010, 6:50 AM     Updated: Monday, November 15, 2010, 8:42 AM


  

[Desdemona]

I will have to disagree on Terri being the husband stealer, she was, but Kaine allowed it all too happen as well, happens all the time, but two people are responsible for that.  I have no idea either what went on inside that house, but it doesn't sound like it was very pleasant the last months before Kyron disappeared.

Of course you are right -- it always takes two to tango!  I used that epithet (husband stealer) only to emphasize what I think might have been the operative dynamic between the two women over the years.  But yes, the husband always plays his part in being 'stolen' as well, for sure.

But then again... now that we're on the subject, I'll add that there is this sense I have, that although Desiree has been outspoken about seeing Terri as the woman who stole her husband, and with whom Kaine cheated on her and betrayed her... well, Kaine seems to see the end of their marriage in a different light... I have not heard enough of his take on it to decide what I believe about all that.  It would be useful to know more, in trying to get a picture of what factors ultimately led to Kyron's disappearance.  JMO.

[can]

Would anyone care to comment on why they think LE has shown Desiree those emails on Friday?  At least that's how I read it.  ICBW - tia

Can, I think they are just keeping her in the loop. It's possible that they had just received them from TH's friends although that would be a bit disconcerting if they held on to them that long before turning them over to LE.

I hadn't thought of that Sassi.  Thank you.  I assumed LE had them all along.
Indeed concerting if friends held on to that kind of email from a person who cannot account for 90 minutes of her time that fateful morning.

Wondering if this is why they searched houses of Terri's friends and possibly this is when the emails were obtained? Just seems odd if such an important piece of info was withheld from LE by Terri's friends until now.

Also, we don't know whether Kaine knew about the emails until today. However, seems logical that once LE decided to mention them to KH and DY, they might approach KH first just to find out if he had any idea about Terri's feelings about Kyron, since it was happening in his home? 

I've been wondering that too and am trying to remember if we know which friends homes were searched other than DeDe's.

I agree w/para.2. that Kaine would have been informed.  But not sure if it was recently, as with Desiree, or if he's had this info. for some time?

[no rose colored glasses]

I will have to disagree on Terri being the husband stealer, she was, but Kaine allowed it all too happen as well, happens all the time, but two people are responsible for that.  I have no idea either what went on inside that house, but it doesn't sound like it was very pleasant the last months before Kyron disappeared.

Of course you are right -- it always takes two to tango!  I used that epithet (husband stealer) only to emphasize what I think might have been the operative dynamic between the two women over the years.  But yes, the husband always plays his part in being 'stolen' as well, for sure.

But then again... now that we're on the subject, I'll add that there is this sense I have, that although Desiree has been outspoken about seeing Terri as the woman who stole her husband, and with whom Kaine cheated on her and betrayed her... well, Kaine seems to see the end of their marriage in a different light... I have not heard enough of his take on it to decide what I believe about all that.  It would be useful to know more, in trying to get a picture of what factors ultimately led to Kyron's disappearance.  JMO.

I just get upset and you have to excuse me when the woman just gets the blame, it makes me mad when marriages are broken up like this, even though it seems to be a very common occurrence    I agree, and I think that Desiree is holding back what all really happened with the marriage, she probably doesn't see it as important in the scheme of what has all happened to Kyron, but she is a woman and women don't get over these things easily, or at least I don't. I just wish that Kyron could have gone and lived with Desiree, for awhile to see how he liked it, but since everything has to be through the courts, I'm guessing, it probably wasn't feasible.

[no rose colored glasses]

I know how to write an email and delete, I delete all of them everyday except if some are very important. I never gave it any thought that once they are deleted are they gone forever? There probably must be some way of getting them, maybe? What I would like to know if these friends showed the police the emails right away? Or were they deleted and they were recovered?