Natalee Case Discussion #795 1/23/09 - 1/27/09

[jen3560]

Neither, Lalas never e-mailed you Kermit.
She put out false info to see who was leaking info. I would say they found the leak. You posted the false info here as thought it were an e-mail to you from Lalas.
I think Lalas proved her point.

While I'm not putting any stock into what you have posted, I do have to wonder a few things.

This information was shared with us in November, in two different ways - and purported to have been known for quite some time prior to that.

At what point was Lala's looking to expose a "leak"? 
And a "leak" from what/where to what/who/where?

And if insinuating Jug knew this was oil related, thereby including Jug in perpetuating a FRAUD while Persistence solicited donations is what Lala's thought in ANY WAY would be a good idea.............well, that's certainly not being a very good friend to Jug.

I think that Lala's is just trying to cover for her own stupidity.
Too bad she has to send someone else to do her dirty work.

I personally think so too.  I just find it odd that it was chosen to be done this particular way.

Definitely doesn't show lala's character in a very good light - I mean geez!

[klaasend]

About a year ago, I unknowingly included the name of a former SM member in one of my posts.  Below is the response that I received.  It seems that the SM Forum rules have changed.


Quote from: klaasend on March 22, 2008, 10:57:12 PM
NO posting of real life names.  If you see something like that please let me know.  You can report the post and all the Moderators will see the problem.  Please don't continue to quote it as it just makes more work for us.

Did I miss something?  Has someone's real life name been posted?

I haven't seen anything and NOBODY has reported anything.

SS - If you are going to post erronious complaints I suggest you need to take a step back.  If someone's personal information has been posted and I have missed it then YOU NEED TO LET ME KNOW.

[klaasend]

SS,

Are you referring to V. V. ?

V.V. tells me about as much as SS does.  I'm getting real tired of the games the CnG gang are playing.

[Magnolia]

About a year ago, I unknowingly included the name of a former SM member in one of my posts.  Below is the response that I received.  It seems that the SM Forum rules have changed.


Quote from: klaasend on March 22, 2008, 10:57:12 PM
NO posting of real life names.  If you see something like that please let me know.  You can report the post and all the Moderators will see the problem.  Please don't continue to quote it as it just makes more work for us.

Did I miss something?  Has someone's real life name been posted?

I haven't seen anything and NOBODY has reported anything.

SS - If you are going to post erronious complaints I suggest you need to take a step back.  If someone's personal information has been posted and I have missed it then YOU NEED TO LET ME KNOW.

I think she is talking about a year ago when she posted Aruba Girl's real
name and Lala's had a fit.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet - think back to last March and April when we were working with Caps and the pond.  None of us were thinking about the cage because we were satisfied with the FBI report that fabric found didn't match Natalee's DNA.  We had naturally trusted that we had been given the accurate information from Persistence and we were all looking forward to the time when they would return to study the remaining sites that they had identified.  There was really no need for a diversion because we had placed our complete trust in the Persistence venture.  In March and April when we were working on Simian/Merian Ernest, we were focused on Daury and the arrest of Duary Rodriguez that we wouldn't have even known about had Caps not told us about it from news in Aruba.  We were all thinking about Patrick's video with Urine's confession, and we were trying to decypher the cryptic codetalker messages.  Persistence was out of our minds until they had enough money for a return trip.  The Persistence diversion came from Persistence itself, not from Caps. 

SS ... you are correct.  I was suspicious that CAPS was a troll from the getgo ... a troll who was attempting to distract Monkeys from persuing what was known about the coverup.  Aside from his deception regarding his grasp of the English language, cryptic messages, misinformation, changing theories ...

1.  CAPS lacked knowledge regarding well-known aspects of the case.  Monkeys had to fill him in.

2.  CAPS lacked knowledge regarding the names of family members.  Monkeys had to fill him in.

3.  CAPS upheld Dave Holloway and Julie Renfro while undermining Jug and Beth.

However ... I never made the Persistence connection.

I put two and two together when Kyle Kingman submitted the following posts to the SM Forum.  His January post made me very uncomfortable but ... his March post and ... Private Eye's responses cause a light to go on in my head in regards to a CAPS connection and ... it has never dimmed.

The revelation of Kyle Kingman's posts submitted to the Natalee's Freebirds' site was such a relief.  My suspicions were confirmed when the CAPS/Silvetti connection was revealed.

Janet

++++++

OCEAN EXPLORATION

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help. They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust. Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time. We've helped each other however and whenever we can. They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right. I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning. Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg332457;topicseen#msg332457


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care. Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing. Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857


PRIVATE EYE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


private eye
 Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that  regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750

SS ... I have backup quotes compiled if you would like me to post them.

Janet

[jen3560]

SS,

Are you referring to V. V. ?

V.V. tells me about as much as SS does.  I'm getting real tired of the games the CnG gang are playing.

[Keepthefaith]

SS,

Are you referring to V. V. ?

V.V. tells me about as much as SS does.  I'm getting real tired of the games the CnG gang are playing.

 

[Seamonkey]

Jamet

I must tell you that I am amazed by your record keeping skills.
 
Thanks you so much for doing this. 

And with this, I am out the door for an appointment.

Awww I missed her..




Just a quick hiya to you all,
Hope all that are gettin the storm stay nice and warm
and to all you who wont gonna be gettin any storms..

[2NJSons_Mom]

About a year ago, I unknowingly included the name of a former SM member in one of my posts.  Below is the response that I received.  It seems that the SM Forum rules have changed.


Quote from: klaasend on March 22, 2008, 10:57:12 PM
NO posting of real life names.  If you see something like that please let me know.  You can report the post and all the Moderators will see the problem.  Please don't continue to quote it as it just makes more work for us.

Did I miss something?  Has someone's real life name been posted?

I haven't seen anything and NOBODY has reported anything.

SS - If you are going to post erronious complaints I suggest you need to take a step back.  If someone's personal information has been posted and I have missed it then YOU NEED TO LET ME KNOW.

I think she is talking about a year ago when she posted Aruba Girl's real
name and Lala's had a fit.

Could be....I was thinking more current.   Thanks, Magnolia.

[klaasend]

Jamet

I must tell you that I am amazed by your record keeping skills.
 
Thanks you so much for doing this. 

And with this, I am out the door for an appointment.

Awww I missed her..




Just a quick hiya to you all,
Hope all that are gettin the storm stay nice and warm
and to all you who wont gonna be gettin any storms..

Hi Seamonkey!

[Keepthefaith]

Jamet

I must tell you that I am amazed by your record keeping skills.
 
Thanks you so much for doing this. 

And with this, I am out the door for an appointment.

Awww I missed her..




Just a quick hiya to you all,
Hope all that are gettin the storm stay nice and warm
and to all you who wont gonna be gettin any storms..

I've had my fair share of floods,snow,as well as fog.No more for me.Pleeeeeaaaazzzzeeeeee!

[SS]

SS,

Are you referring to V. V. ?

I am referring to several posts that were made last night and reposted several times since.  Names were given and an additional post refers to a name turning up like a weasle.  I am referring to the possible identification of someone through locations and possessions that were posted.  I don't know if many people on this forum realize or not that some names are very common in Aruba.  The same last name does not necessarily indicate a family relationship.  However, since everyone is following very closely the things that Kermit is posting, I don't think it's fair to even make close connections or hints. 

2NJ, this is not a game.  I am very concerned for the safety and welfare of a human being.  Some may not like him, some may think he's crazy, and some may think he's a good guy.  Regardless, he is someone who lives in a country where people are known to disappear and turn up dead for revealing information.  Does anyone on this Forum want to risk finding the name Kermit has posted (or any combination of the name) in tomorrow's Aruban newspapers?  We're here to help missing and exploited people, not endanger people.

[Seamonkey]

Hiya Miss Klaas 

I hear ya there, keepthefaith..i am soooo ready for spring!

[Keepthefaith]

Hiya Miss Klaas 

I hear ya there, keepthefaith..i am soooo ready for spring!

Up here in Seattle we've had some pretty bizarre weather but Spring is close at hand!!

[Tamikosmom]

Janet - I am in agreement with the anger over the way in which Persistence handled the contents of the cage.  It is deplorable.  My question remains, why did the Freebirds remain silent about this from March until September, regardless of who waited for whom to contact the FBI.  The rest of us were spending hours digging for tid bits of information and we were writing checks to TES.  Why didn't the Freebirds go public with this information and let the rest of us know what had taken place?  I have a problem with that.  In my opinion, I feel like I was finally given the information in September, because the Freebirds as a group faced a legal issue.  The same issue caused big problems within their own group and then the problem was dumped on our forum and in our laps to deal with publicly.  I'm not happy about that because I don't like what has happened to some really nice people and some really nice relationships.

Maybe you anger should be directed at Kyle Kingman.  He had all this crucial first hand information encompassing John Silvetti assisting in the finale' to great Aruban coverup involving an American Citizen yet ... he did not immediately report it to US Authorities or Natalee's family immediately upon arriving home.  Instead ... he held off and entered into negotiations with major networds along side of Louis Shaefer and Tim Tehran.

Dispictable!!

Janet

BUMPED

[Kermit]

SS,

Are you referring to V. V. ?

I am referring to several posts that were made last night and reposted several times since.  Names were given and an additional post refers to a name turning up like a weasle.  I am referring to the possible identification of someone through locations and possessions that were posted.  I don't know if many people on this forum realize or not that some names are very common in Aruba.  The same last name does not necessarily indicate a family relationship.  However, since everyone is following very closely the things that Kermit is posting, I don't think it's fair to even make close connections or hints. 

2NJ, this is not a game.  I am very concerned for the safety and welfare of a human being.  Some may not like him, some may think he's crazy, and some may think he's a good guy.  Regardless, he is someone who lives in a country where people are known to disappear and turn up dead for revealing information.  Does anyone on this Forum want to risk finding the name Kermit has posted (or any combination of the name) in tomorrow's Aruban newspapers?  We're here to help missing and exploited people, not endanger people.

You just confirmed it?
Is that what you are revealing here?

Alls I posted was Albert Vrolijk.
You know he is the journalist who found the panties.
And that there is another Vrolijk who lives in GA and works for the Aruba Tourism Authority.

And you were wanting to reveal names of Secret Service Agents.
How hypocritical of you.

[2NJSons_Mom]

SS,

Are you referring to V. V. ?

I am referring to several posts that were made last night and reposted several times since.  Names were given and an additional post refers to a name turning up like a weasle.  I am referring to the possible identification of someone through locations and possessions that were posted.  I don't know if many people on this forum realize or not that some names are very common in Aruba.  The same last name does not necessarily indicate a family relationship.  However, since everyone is following very closely the things that Kermit is posting, I don't think it's fair to even make close connections or hints. 

2NJ, this is not a game.  I am very concerned for the safety and welfare of a human being.  Some may not like him, some may think he's crazy, and some may think he's a good guy.  Regardless, he is someone who lives in a country where people are known to disappear and turn up dead for revealing information.  Does anyone on this Forum want to risk finding the name Kermit has posted (or any combination of the name) in tomorrow's Aruban newspapers?  We're here to help missing and exploited people, not endanger people.

Did you contact Klaasend directly to voice your concern?  If not, then do so, and it will be addressed. 

Why do you feel that I think this is a game?  We went through this yesterday.  If you had not posted your concern here, then I would not have made an educated guess. 

[Kermit]

ldstlou
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #795 1/23/09 -
« Reply #734 on: Today at 11:31:18 AM »
Neither, Lalas never e-mailed you Kermit.
She put out false info to see who was leaking info. I would say they found the leak. You posted the false info here as thought it were an e-mail to you from Lalas.
I think Lalas proved her point.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4434.msg647329#msg647329


A. You need to re-do your math. The dates do not add up to any big conspiracy by lalasmom to find a leak in her group of friends that you belong too.

B. I rec'd emails from lalasmom's leak. I have mentioned this fact before.
Please try to read the posts correctly BEFORE you make accusations about anyone lying.

C. As Jen stated, she heard the same information about Jug knowing about Silvetti mapping for oil in a phone conversation.

Please reconsider what you are insinuating about Jug Twitty.
Because what you are saying is lalasmom was intentionally planting false and misleading information about Jug Twitty just to find out some leak from her group of friends.

I think the real truth is you would go to any lengths to try to turn anyone against me and the freebirds.
Rather then face the truth of what we have said. You would rather not use your psychology degree and figure out why would your contacts lie to you, why are you unable to see the real truth, and most importantly why did you turn on Jug Twitty when you knew the truth and what lalasmom said and what Jug replied.

Instead you project your feelings of anger and mistrust on moi.

Better to face it Idstlou. I nor any of the Freebirds have lied.

[Keepthefaith]

Is there a code of silence in regards to mebership at CnG.I think i've only seen one poster admit honestly that they were a member but are no longer?

[Magnolia]

SS,

Are you referring to V. V. ?

I am referring to several posts that were made last night and reposted several times since.  Names were given and an additional post refers to a name turning up like a weasle.  I am referring to the possible identification of someone through locations and possessions that were posted.  I don't know if many people on this forum realize or not that some names are very common in Aruba.  The same last name does not necessarily indicate a family relationship.  However, since everyone is following very closely the things that Kermit is posting, I don't think it's fair to even make close connections or hints. 
2NJ, this is not a game.  I am very concerned for the safety and welfare of a human being.  Some may not like him, some may think he's crazy, and some may think he's a good guy.  Regardless, he is someone who lives in a country where people are known to disappear and turn up dead for revealing information.  Does anyone on this Forum want to risk finding the name Kermit has posted (or any combination of the name) in tomorrow's Aruban newspapers?  We're here to help missing and exploited people, not endanger people.

Fair?  Do you think what happened to Natalee and the cover-up that
ensued is fair?
Was it fair for CapsLockWizzard to post all of that information about
Deutekmon?