Natalee Case Discussion #776 11/19/08 to 11/21/08

[vms]

@ Mum & SS,

Remember this name? I think this may solve how Mayra is related.

VMS - I think that email is BS.  We did a lot of research through lots of official records.  Myra is Ernesto's aunt.  Victor is the child of Myra's second of three marriages.

I know, I helped with the research. Aunt might work but not mom, Imo. There is a lot of age difference between them...

[Nut44x4]

Would you do an interview looking like that!       

No, but this one did too .....lmao

[MumInOhio]

Interresting after all this time Ernesto is popping back up.  Wonder where he's been the last couple years?




Klaas - I don't think you really want to know!   

  He's pretty scuzzy. Could be just about anything. 

Oh man, now I have to go find all that stuff in the Shango thread about Ernesto.  Maybe Mum will have it handy in the morning.  Didn't he have some relative named Myra or something like that?

I assume that Mayra is his sister, considering the comment by her son...

I somehow remembered Mayra to be Ernesto's mom. 

http://www.vozcatolica.org/70/sanacion.htm

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2973.0

Del Carmen...Familiar to anyone?

I found the Rodriquez name connected to Ernesto's sites, before it ever was flooded with all the new names, This was back when you would google Arambatzis and you could find hardly nothing. Before we started posting our thoughts on the relationships.

Ernesto, Mayra and Victor still look alike to me!

Age difference between Mayra and Ernesto is too big for them to be brother and sister IMO. Four marriages for Mayra?? Still lots of questions for me, including the Bradenton address.

[MumInOhio]

The Bathtub…

I have a post I found on this, I believe from RWV somewhere on my computer.  I saved it for a poster here, that saw the original site about the tub. If I run across it I will post it.

This is what I remember from that post…The Bathtub picture was posted on one of the Stephanie’s/Stephany’s sites.   Two girls were standing over the bathtub.

The post I found is not from one of the SM posters that saw the site…as far as I can tell.

This is what I remember from previous discussions…It was not Natalee, it was some-one that looked like her. The two girls were saying/chanting NataleeH. The Bathtub picture was only online for a very short time and was removed.

Around the same time Val posted about the decapitation above the eyebrows.
These two things appear to have morphed into each other…

IIRC there was more than one SM poster that saw the bathtub picture.

[Nut44x4]

YES MUM......that's it! You knew I could not remember all that! LOL!

[Blonde]

Blonde, I think the above photo was of the blue/gray car (w/chunks missing.)

IIRC, in that car there was a bunch of junk on the dash, and I wondered if the junk concealed more missing pieces.

I think the SUV photo was a side shot, or from driver's side toward rear.

I have this one

[MumInOhio]

Does anyone remember the Deepak Statement where he said he went online to chat with a co-worker?

Last night I was checking through the Dr Phil docs and noticed that the references to the Chats between Deepak and John Charles Croes were listed as Aruba/USA.  Looks like 3 Hard drives.

Name/Title: Chat between Deepak and John Charles Croes
File No:
Date: 1 June 2005
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: not stated
Description: Chat between Deepak and John Charles Croes
Source: Hard drive
Lab nr: not stated
Location: Anuba/USA

Name/Title: Chat between Deepak and John Charles Croes
File No:
Date: 4 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator: not stated
Description: Chat between Deepak and John Charles Croes
Source: Hard drive
Lab nr: not stated
Location: Aruba/USA

Name/Title: Chat between Deepak and John Charles Croes
File No:
Date:5 June 2005
Pages: 8
Writer/Initiator. not stated
Description: Chat between Deepak and John Charles Croes
Source: Hard drive
Lab nr: not stated
Location: Aruba/USA


Nothing in the FBI Listings at all about John Charles Croes. His hard drive was sent to the Netherlands.

Name/Title: Hard drive John Charles Croes (chats)
File No: TDE-05-022
Date: July 8 2005
Pages: 7 (1 attachment)
Writerl[nitiator: F Kolenbrander
Description: Hard drive John Charles Cros (chats)
Source: KLP
Lab nr. TDE-05-022-05
Location: Netherlands


John Charles Croes was questioned in Aruba.

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 19 June 2005
Pages: 4
Writer/Initiator: DENNIS JACOBS/LUIGI CROES
Description: chat traffic

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 21 June 2005
Pages: 5
Writer/Initiator: DENNIS JACOBS/LUIGI CROPS
Description: Chat traffic

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 22 June 2005
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator DENNIS JACOBS/LUIGI CROES
Description: Chat traffic

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus / Zoraida De Cuba
Description: Chat traffic


Deepak said that John Charles Croes lives in Miami with his Family…and we believe him? And if we believe him, then who was John Charles Croes staying with in Aruba.

Who is John Charles Croes. Really?

[Blonde]

Kermit - can you help us a little with the cast of characters in your cover up picture.  The only ALE people that we have been able to identify are Dolf Richardson and Hans Mos.  Do you know who the rest are?  How about the guy to the right of Dolf who looks like Groucho Marx?

Need your help here I took my own screen shots.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.new#new

[sharon]

More from my organic hard disk that may or may not be helpful about the latest rumor re-run.

I didn't see it myself but had heard (read, 2nd hand) that Valentijn said, I think to his girlfriend, that Joran took off Natalee's head above the eyebrows, something like that.

Now about the metal baseball bat. That's to do with a front page post here at SM by Viet Vet. (follow me here)  A kid told a school teacher at the american (ISA) school that Joran told him ...

1) That he, Joran, had killed her with an aluminum baseball bat, and
2) That Joran was staying nights at the school, not at home.

That VV went by the school and shurenuff Joran was staying there, but polis followed him (VV) in and ran him off.

*Just think. Joran was staying at the school with all those unsupervised and un-bugged telephones and computers.

Great organic memory GT! I saved it on digital memory 


viet vet wrote:

Speaking of off the record comments, we were told were to find Joran at the International School on a Friday , June 2 or 3, have it in my notes. Was also told Joran hit Natalee with an aluminum baseball bat…in the head. The same man told me both stories and guess what, Joran was at the International School that day, hiding. He was sleeping over there rather than home,,, scared he was. The fine Aruba Police followed us to the school that day or maybe we would already have solved this case. Yeah Karin, a bounch of cowboys…

Dec 6, 8:11 PM

[Blonde]

John Silvetti - red shirt
Dolf Richardson
Hans Mos

Who are the others?

Their are others on that boat look http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.new#new

[MumInOhio]

YES MUM......that's it! You knew I could not remember all that! LOL!

LOL...Nut...For some reason I remember a lot about some things and absolutely nothing about others!

The Phychic Young and ?, I know nothing about!

Figure there has been too much information and my brain is selective on what it can recall.  Either that or it has something to do with getting older!

[vms]

Video with Ernesto.

BLACK SUNDAY @ BELLA ROSE 8.17.08
BYE BYE ERNIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6l3x24lIKc

Ewww, its weird. 

[sharon]

Wreck - that thing in the Sloots yard is not a cesspool.  It's their genepool.


Were you involved in the photograph comparison of the Alpoe Hondas last summer with Rob and Carpe?  If so, would you please explain to everyone what you found when you compared the photographs?

I beleive this is what you are referring to. The 'car' pictures did not copy over -- but if you go the link at SM, you will see the pictures as well.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.msg292404#new

Re: Corruption and Collusion within the Aruban government 1&
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2008, 10:49:25 AM »

Here is the latest from Natalee's Freebirds:


Sanitizing the Vehicle ~ Too Little Too Late, Or Bait and Switch?

Many questions have been raised about the vehicle Natalee Holloway was last seen in - the Silver Honda Civic owned by Deepak Kalpoe.

It seems there was a concerted effort made to possibly remove or dispose of evidence pertaining to Miss Holloway's demise from that car.

It had been reported that the vehicle in question was inspected in the early days of this investigation - wherein the FBI told Natalee's parents blood was present in the vehicle.

Considering these suspects could never have anticipated the timely arrival of Natalee's desperate family on the island of Aruba, their immediate efforts to cleanse this car don't appear to have been enough to remove this damaging evidence.

June 01 2005

A high school's senior trip to Aruba went terribly wrong for a local family. The trip ended without Natalie Holloway returning.

The 18-year-old went to a nightclub in Aruba with a man she befriended while on the trip. She was last seen in the man's car leaving the club at about 1 a.m. Monday.
The man, who lives in Aruba, has been interrogated and his car is in FBI custody.
http://www.nbc13.com/news/4553156/detail.html

8:00 am Tuesday, May 31, 2005 Beth arrives at Bulbai Police Station and Deepaks car is parked in the back.
p. 58 Loving Natalee


With this in mind, we then re-visited what has been made available about the disposition of this Honda Civic in the hours and days after Natalee disappeared.

It is highly unlikely Deepak Kalpoe cleaned his car in the middle of the night, and then dropped it at Automotive Enterprises the next night out of sheer coincidence.


A neighbor saw the vehicle being cleaned in the early morning hours of the same night Natalee went missing

“In the early morning hours of Monday morning (May 30th), Deepak methodically and uncharacteristically cleaned his sliver Nissan, claiming that it had “ants” in it..."
(source: CIVIL SUIT filed in New York)

In the night time hours of May 30th, Deepak's vehicle was deposited with Automotive Enterprises - a time during which Deepak told law enforcement he was at work.

Because I had worked in the past on the car of Deepak, he approached me to keep z/n its car for him in my garage in the "Automotive Enterprises established" at Wayaca for him. I must note that I in the past the car of Deepak had twice left his car in my garage when I worked on it. With the car of Deepak I mean the grey four door private car of the make "Honda Civic".

On your question if Deepak had told me how he knew that the missing American little girl Natalee Ann HOLLOWAY on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the night time hours, had only her identification document (drivers license) and an amount of US $50, =, in her possession, I answer you the following:

At absolutely no moment did Deepak tell me how he knew that missing little girl only had her identity card and US $50, =, in her possession. You must ask it to Deepak(Witness Statement given by OF Osman August 6, 2005)

By 8:00 am the morning of May 31st, Deepak's vehicle was located at the Bubali Police Station


Does the above activity tell us the following may have occurred with Deepak's vehicle?

Deepak attempts to clean his blood stained vehicle himself in the middle of the night, within mere hours of Natalee going missing?

That attempt did not remove the blood from the vehicle, and a second attempt at cleaning the vehicle was done by Automotive Enterprises when Deepak took his car there the night of May 30th?


When neither of those attempts at evidence removal worked, and the FBI had found blood in that vehicle during an inspection conducted by June 1, 2005, we then have to pose the question:

What vehicle was impounded and forensically tested on June 9, 2005?

Below is a photo of the front of the Kalpoe home, taken on June 9 2005 after the two brothers Deepak and Satish had been taken in by Aruban law enforcement, and after Deepak's silver Honda Civic was purportedly siezed by authorities.



 

CBS News: Suspect Knew Natalee
http://nataleeholloway.tripod.com/

Whose silver Honda Civic is that pictured outside the Kalpoe home after another Honda Civic was siezed by authorities?

The following are pictures of Deepak Kalpoe's Honda Civic - note the number of spokes in the wheels

 



 



 

Here now is the Honda Civic Aruban police siezed in the early morning hours when Deepak and Satish were arrested - note the difference in the number of spokes in the wheel from Deepak's Honda Civic

 



 

Was the car Natalee Holloway was last seen in the one siezed by authorities on June 9 2005?

 

Or was another car taken in its place?

Where did this second silver Honda Civic come from, and to whom did it belong?



Natalee and her family deserve justice, and we will not let up until they have it!
Natalee's Freebirds

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

[COLOMBO]

fyi:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94I86580&show_article=1

[sharon]

Looks like Ernesto is working with Ingrid again.

http://www.emailbrain.com/eb_members/17683/ftp/112208.jpg

We'll have to have Sharon check this out!   

Thanks, vms....and you were right about 'MONDAY'...

Yeah, maybe Sharon will check it out for us.

Fountainbleau had a 're-opening gala' last weekend. All the A-listers  were in town for the parties. I forget how long it's been closed for renovations.

Didn't see Ernesto's name involved at all with the 'gala' stuff.

Let me see what's going on now

Please don't expect me to get invited to these parties  I'm way tooooo old and not nearly beautiful enough 

[MumInOhio]

Looks like Ernesto is working with Ingrid again.

http://www.emailbrain.com/eb_members/17683/ftp/112208.jpg

We'll have to have Sharon check this out!   

Thanks, vms....and you were right about 'MONDAY'...

Yeah, maybe Sharon will check it out for us.

Fountainbleau had a 're-opening gala' last weekend. All the A-listers  were in town for the parties. I forget how long it's been closed for renovations.

Didn't see Ernesto's name involved at all with the 'gala' stuff.

Let me see what's going on now

Please don't expect me to get invited to these parties  I'm way tooooo old and not nearly beautiful enough 

Don't kid yourself, Sharon. Those A-listers are all phonies!

[MumInOhio]

fyi:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94I86580&show_article=1

Thanks COLOMBO!

[Blonde]

Mariloo, follow me here. You stated that you thought Paul exceptionally unsettled by the time Beth & group arrived late Monday night.

We all know what Paul was like after that time. That's why I questioned your perception about so early. If you were talking through your hat, say so.

Beth, posse, and ALE arrive at the VDS compound in the middle of the night looking for information.

After much commotion, PVDS hesitates to come out.  Why?

Most people I know would want to know why the police were outside the gate wanting to come in. Did the police come often to the VDS compound?

Knowing his son was off gambling on a school night, wouldn't he wonder if something was wrong with Joran?  Maybe Joran was hurt?  Given the number of VDS and other phones, broken, lost, misplaced over the weekend, and on Monday/Tuesday, why ignore the police at the gate?

Maybe something had happened to Anita?  Terrorism in Holland?  Sickness?  Accident?

Most people would think "OMG, something has happened to..." - even if "..." is no longer a child, even if they were in their 60's or something.  I think it's a parent instinct.  A family instinct.  A human instinct.

If not a human instinct, wasn't he concerned that police were there because someone was breaking into one of the buildings on the compound?  Maybe someone stole a VDS car and took it for a joyride?   

It's also just a nosy thing.  Any time the police or 911 services are at someone's house, a crowd seems to gather.  Who's in trouble?  Someone die?  Someone have a heart attack?  Domestic problem?  What was the crowd thinking at the VDS compound that night?   

I've often wondered if the neighbors were disappeared on Monday for that very reason.  IIRC, they were on 'vacation'... 

Why wouldn't someone WANT to know why people are at the gate?   

The two security guards that were arrested later that week, did the police wait patiently for them to answer the door? 

just my humble opinions

Exactly!!!!!!  I was beginning to think I was alone with this.   Thank you.  I could not have and did not say it as well. 

Exactly what?

Hello?

We all know that Paul, Joran, the Kalpoes and who knows who all else had been there at most only hours earlier out by the pool strategizing what bs tale to tell about what became of Natalee early that morning.

That either Charles Croes, his friend, or the Noord polis had already given the vdSloots the headsup that Natalee's family was headed their way from 5 minutes up the road at Noord polis station.

We know that just earlier Deepak's car had been inside the fence with the gate apparently latched/locked so the fence had to be climbed over to copy down Deepak's car license number.

So yeah, exactly what? Something I've missed now for years?

GrannyToad - last summer Carpe, Rob, and I think Wreck spent days comparing photographs of the Alpoe car.  They compared the photographs that were taken when the car was in impound with older photographs.  The Honda in ALE custody was not the same car.  Deepak's car had a lot of extras that had been added after purchase. The car that was being held by ALE had standard accessories.  The tail lights were even different.  The Honda that ALE was holding as evidence wasn't the real Alpoe car.  And don't forget, those stains were chocolate and cleaning fluid.  ALE didn't just switch the carpets and trunk liners.  They switched the entire car.

  Here are the pictures http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3102.0

[MumInOhio]

Here is what is in the Dr. Phil Docs re the cars and car seats…Not sure how one does DNA comparison between blood samples and chocolate…FBI report said car seats and does not indicate whose car or cars.

Name/Title: Search for blood in Deepak Kalpoe's car
File No: none
Date: 9 June 2005 / 20:30
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Scott Henri Hahn (FBI), R.C.B. Tromp, S. G Ras
Description: Blood Search in Deepak Kalpoes Car
Source: Technische Opsporings-en Herkenningsdienst
Lab nr: 663/2005
Location: Divisie Centrale Recherche, Aruba

Name/Title: DNA comparison
File No: 2005.06.10.113
Date: 11 July 2005
Pages:12
Writer/Initiator: M. van der Scheer/Dr. RJ Bink/
Description: DNA comparison (between blood samples and Deepak Kalpoe's car seat samples)
Source: NFI
Lab nr: none
Location: Den Haag, Holland

Name/Title: Laboratory report (car)
File No: 163a-bb-1426
Date: 29 August 2005
Pages: 10 (fax)
Writer/Initiator: Brendan F.Shea (DNA Analysis Unit 1)
Description: Laboratory report of car seats and hair found
Source: FBI
Lab nr: 050611001 KS RT

Name/Title: Car seat investigation
File No: 2005.06.10.113/a
Date: 30 August 2005
Pages: 5 (1 attachment)
Writer/lnitiator. Dr.J Bink
Description: forensic analysis on car seat of Deepak Kalpoe's car
Source: NFI
Lab nr:
Location: `s Gravenhage Netherlands

[Blonde]

Yes, and in the second picture, see the man with the emblem on his shirt.....do we know what that is???

I think TimTrahan