Natalee Case Discussion #789 1/1/09 - 1/3/09

[billb's daughter]

Good night TM....

[CapsLockWizard]

CapsLockWizard, do you like to fish?

Poof... the fish is gone....

 

the fish is not gone

Hi Caps.  Got anything to add regarding Kyle or John Silvetti?  Clyde Burke?  Jossy Mansur?  Eduardo Mansur? 

 

The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.

Just watch this week for the arrest of a major player of the game...and probably a big strike in the making and uproar in the house of Babylon.

Question: how many years did the USA took to get Gotti Convicted.?

So like a said: in colombia they call those that make information up to confuse the issues of this case a SAPO.

How can we hunt for lions while those on this net is working against the work at hand. Watch a movie is not like reading the book of the movie.

In the state the only thing that can be done right now is to pray...since those that scream the loudest are not in the field...but is try to confuse the world.

Things has happend but like I said before. A Sapo war is a lost war....

Remeber 911 ....the first attempt was that the basement, but then the media did give a whole information on how the building was done and how strong it was and where the weakest link were.....where is it now...

if we want to win we have to investigate and not pointing finger to those that are at work...

What ever kyle did and the OE did, I do not know, I was not there. I work alone with a group that can not be put at risk

What I hate the most of this site now is the way the information is twisted, but it is the same method that was use by those that made Natalee desapear, they twist the info.

If anyone to work on the case work on the case. but all that was said is said, we are not working in the future but with info that has been twisted in 2005 and need to be put back straight...

Investigate, but never assume and make thing up or cut and paste and reassamble what people said to proof your own view without knowing the real context in which that particular text was written or no even knowing what was the question to the origin of the text.

Every event in 2005 had a flow and when the truth is change, we allways will have a paradox. and I see it happend here in this forum also or should I call it SM Paradox.

Peter devries tried to put in in a movie but it does not compute, and so a lot is trying to assamble the story.

Read again what I say, how can you hunt lions without a local guide. and put your own magination those all that has tried to build a picture of this case;

and jumb the gun for some momement of sensation, they do not know the real truth, but they do not sit everyday in aruba and continue with the work at hand...all take carefully planning, and all seems to forget one thing, and that is in the question above...to know who (the corrupt Babylons) takes time, but go to war without knowing them is suicidal to all.

CAPS

CAPS...
Thank you for your reply.....
Help me though with this one question please....

I believed in what you were posting then, but I'd like you to respond to those questions so I can keep my faith in your theories...I often said that I think you have the "what happened to Natalee that night" and Kermit has the final disposal site of Natalee's remains....do I have that right?
Thank you.....
I still have to digest your reply above, but ask that you allow me to asks questions afterwords....
Thanks again CAPS....

1. Escudero cage is made of Iron and concrate iron mats...and its weight is around 500 pond or more.

2. Aruba fish cages or call it trap are for a fish called crapfish and Lobster like tail fish, it is made of PVC and with chicken coup wire mesh. it has to fin in a small fishing boat and be manageable to be lifted by the fisherman or 2 on the boat.

3. the cages in Aruba are put around the coastal area and where there are lot of rocks and reefs, not in an open ocean.


4. Now let look at post mortom issues, a body will start to decompose in 2 hours after dead and start building toxid gases. it will require professional handling.

5. we had 3 mayor close call horacain and the sea where that cage is was like a washing machine.

Question: do you know what will happend to fabrick in salt water for almost 3 year with constant stream, they loose color first since the die of jeans will become white in salt water and then will be decompose.

if it was fresh water, it will be come slimy then iit will start to build these bacteria that will make smell like someone just vomit (Acid smell)


now let go back to time

let assume that they put her in the cage at night...that means that they must had knowledge of the case prior and was well know to the exact cordination to go to that location , put in scuba gear, have some sort of referance or GPS location finder and dive at night and put it in the cage. Likely hood that that has happend in 2005? No. to much preparation.

assume that they did it the next day, then where will they have put the body that night to beat the post mortom process.?? ice in a badtube will not do it.

Asume that ALE put it some bones or object in the cage when OE was not looking, Why do that and what is the purpuse.

assume that whit ALE acction, What will be the benefit and to who? what will be their next move.

logic : Some one hid a body somewhere in a cage in Aruba ocean
A search for that cage was organised and started
a cage was found
the cage was empty on TV tumbs Down

PARADOX NOW

Go back to cage 7 day back and put in a body parts,  but you will then create a paradox here. you have it on tv to show the whole world that the cage was empty. (Paradox is where we tried to change an event that happend in the past.)

then we have to find why was the paradox created and who is it to its benefit.


CAPS




 

[texasmom]

Good night TM....

Goodnight billb!    

[billb's daughter]

CapsLockWizard, do you like to fish?

Poof... the fish is gone....

 

the fish is not gone

Hi Caps.  Got anything to add regarding Kyle or John Silvetti?  Clyde Burke?  Jossy Mansur?  Eduardo Mansur? 

 

The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.

Just watch this week for the arrest of a major player of the game...and probably a big strike in the making and uproar in the house of Babylon.

Question: how many years did the USA took to get Gotti Convicted.?

So like a said: in colombia they call those that make information up to confuse the issues of this case a SAPO.

How can we hunt for lions while those on this net is working against the work at hand. Watch a movie is not like reading the book of the movie.

In the state the only thing that can be done right now is to pray...since those that scream the loudest are not in the field...but is try to confuse the world.

Things has happend but like I said before. A Sapo war is a lost war....

Remeber 911 ....the first attempt was that the basement, but then the media did give a whole information on how the building was done and how strong it was and where the weakest link were.....where is it now...

if we want to win we have to investigate and not pointing finger to those that are at work...

What ever kyle did and the OE did, I do not know, I was not there. I work alone with a group that can not be put at risk

What I hate the most of this site now is the way the information is twisted, but it is the same method that was use by those that made Natalee desapear, they twist the info.

If anyone to work on the case work on the case. but all that was said is said, we are not working in the future but with info that has been twisted in 2005 and need to be put back straight...

Investigate, but never assume and make thing up or cut and paste and reassamble what people said to proof your own view without knowing the real context in which that particular text was written or no even knowing what was the question to the origin of the text.

Every event in 2005 had a flow and when the truth is change, we allways will have a paradox. and I see it happend here in this forum also or should I call it SM Paradox.

Peter devries tried to put in in a movie but it does not compute, and so a lot is trying to assamble the story.

Read again what I say, how can you hunt lions without a local guide. and put your own magination those all that has tried to build a picture of this case;

and jumb the gun for some momement of sensation, they do not know the real truth, but they do not sit everyday in aruba and continue with the work at hand...all take carefully planning, and all seems to forget one thing, and that is in the question above...to know who (the corrupt Babylons) takes time, but go to war without knowing them is suicidal to all.

CAPS

CAPS...
Thank you for your reply.....
Help me though with this one question please....

I believed in what you were posting then, but I'd like you to respond to those questions so I can keep my faith in your theories...I often said that I think you have the "what happened to Natalee that night" and Kermit has the final disposal site of Natalee's remains....do I have that right?
Thank you.....
I still have to digest your reply above, but ask that you allow me to asks questions afterwords....
Thanks again CAPS....

1. Escudero cage is made of Iron and concrate iron mats...and its weight is around 500 pond or more.

2. Aruba fish cages or call it trap are for a fish called crapfish and Lobster like tail fish, it is made of PVC and with chicken coup wire mesh. it has to fin in a small fishing boat and be manageable to be lifted by the fisherman or 2 on the boat.

3. the cages in Aruba are put around the coastal area and where there are lot of rocks and reefs, not in an open ocean.
you seem to be implying that the 500 lb Escudero cage was is the one we are all talking about and the persistence target that aruba divers may have recovered some contents


4. Now let look at post mortom issues, a body will start to decompose in 2 hours after dead and start building toxid gases. it will require professional handling.

5. we had 3 mayor close call horacain and the sea where that cage is was like a washing machine.

Question: do you know what will happend to fabrick in salt water for almost 3 year with constant stream, they loose color first since the die of jeans will become white in salt water and then will be decompose.
Agree. I find it hard to believe after 3 + years that there could be any colored fabric remaining in this environment
if it was fresh water, it will be come slimy then iit will start to build these bacteria that will make smell like someone just vomit (Acid smell)


now let go back to time

let assume that they put her in the cage at night...that means that they must had knowledge of the case prior and was well know to the exact cordination to go to that location , put in scuba gear, have some sort of referance or GPS location finder and dive at night and put it in the cage. Likely hood that that has happend in 2005? No. to much preparation.

assume that they did it the next day, then where will they have put the body that night to beat the post mortom process.?? ice in a badtube will not do it.

Asume that ALE put it some bones or object in the cage when OE was not looking, Why do that and what is the purpuse.
I don't see any purpose for ALE adding contents to the cage anytime...doesn't make sense to me. But Tim Miller declared on 30 Dec upon viewing ROV images that he believed he saw a shull...so much, he reportedly told Dave Holloway that he believed Natalee's remains were found.
assume that whit ALE acction, What will be the benefit and to who? what will be their next move.

logic : Some one hid a body somewhere in a cage in Aruba ocean
A search for that cage was organised and started
a cage was found
the cage was empty on TV tumbs Down
I don't assume that a thumbs down signal meant there was nothing in the cage...that is still open to lively debate.

PARADOX NOW

Go back to cage 7 day back and put in a body parts,  but you will then create a paradox here. you have it on tv to show the whole world that the cage was empty. (Paradox is where we tried to change an event that happend in the past.)

then we have to find why was the paradox created and who is it to its benefit.


CAPS




 

CAPS...I've added red comments to yout post above.
Are you saying that ALE put remains in the cage without the knowledge of the persistence crew/kyle?
What would be the purpose? Why hasn't ALE presented the contents of the cage then? Blackmail to keep some quiet? I don't follow..Please explain.

[texasmom]

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!!!!

[texasmom]

Goodnight billb! 

[billb's daughter]

Goodnight billb! 

Goodnight TM...I love your post each night with Natalee's picture...That is why we are all here....Justice for Natalee...

[billb's daughter]

It is strange how the bungled fish trap investigation and the pond became merged. 

Is there something right before us that we are missing about all this?

BUMP

There is no connection IMHO 

I think they ARE linked. The pond was a diversion for what was really found in the cage. The pond was the VERY last thing searched by the Persitence crew. Did they purposely plant the cage evidence in the pond????

hmmm OK, they planted human remains, the remains of Natalee, from the sea cage into the Monserat pond?   I just can`t believe people are that evil.   No, i don`t believe that at all Wreck
Silvetti? Caps? No way, i don`t buy that.

Sounds like they were trying to frame Joran! 

Read ahead Monkeys...I think CAPS is proposing that Natalee's remains may have been planted by ALE during the persistence search w/o kyle/crew knowledge....still evolving....interesting..

[billb's daughter]

It is strange how the bungled fish trap investigation and the pond became merged. 

Is there something right before us that we are missing about all this?

BUMP

There is no connection IMHO 

I think they ARE linked. The pond was a diversion for what was really found in the cage. The pond was the VERY last thing searched by the Persitence crew. Did they purposely plant the cage evidence in the pond????

hmmm OK, they planted human remains, the remains of Natalee, from the sea cage into the Monserat pond?   I just can`t believe people are that evil.   No, i don`t believe that at all Wreck
Silvetti? Caps? No way, i don`t buy that.

Sounds like they were trying to frame Joran! 

Read ahead Monkeys...I think CAPS is proposing that Natalee's remains may have been planted by ALE during the persistence search w/o kyle/crew knowledge....still evolving....interesting..

OK..I always get this wrong...read behind this post, but ahead of the post I'm replying to.....

[billb's daughter]

Good night Bastibro...

[bastibro]

Good night Bastibro...

Good nigtht bilb,

[billb's daughter]

Goodnight Adoronron..

[billb's daughter]

Goodnight 5 quests viewing this site...

[Buckeye]

The cage does not sound like the usual cage, used for fishing/trapping "reef" fish, in Aruba.

The cage very well could be similar to those used for a drug post office.

OE (Kyle) was quite descriptive.  The cage had not been lowered with the 4 pt. harness.  You could tell it had been shoved off of something, by the way the ground was disturbed. He said it appeared to have been in the water the approximate time (three years) not a decade.

Maybe this "post office" had previously been discovered and confiscated.  Maybe this post office was being stored somewhere by the ALE, pulled out of storage, loaded on a boat and shoved off the boat, to clean up the "mess" and "save" the island. Maybe the contents (all the hermit crabs and plastic) needs to be hidden so no one knows the ALE were in on the cover up.

Maybe Natalee was wrapped in the blue plastic tarp and her skirt did not deteriorate at the rate expected.  God works in mysterious ways.

I think we must keep what we know (have pictures of) separate from the "how".  There are many reasons the JK2 didn't need scuba gear. We must keep what makes sense, to us, separate from what the "evidence" shows. Sometimes things don't make sense...for awhile...

What was in the bags?  Why was it retrieved, if it was nothing??  If it was nothing, why not say what it was?  IMO...it is something...

[MumInOhio]

Hi Tib...Happy New Year to you as well...Will switch our weather for a week or two!

SS......I have 2 different IPs on the same page of a thread in this Forum. I think I have a screen capture, if not I will make sure I do it. I also use more than one computer, so I have absolutely no idea what point Kermit has been trying to make. Especially now she professes to use 7...Oh...I guess she is now CIA, FBI or something...

Remember ALE is watching. FBI too. 

Click on my profile and you can see a post of mine this morning about Caps posting from Aruba. It seems I was tracking Caps long before either Kermit and Jen, and Yes he was posting from Aruba. I have a heap of them saved.

By my calculations I have managed to squeeze in before all the "devices". 

Yes MUM I have 6 computers and a phone that I can log in with.
Mix it up as much as you want so you can come to conclusions that fit your agenda.

Kermit...From reading your fly by posts in Shango for over a year now, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are the one that is mixing it up.

Long posts that are full of names and places that you think are part of a major conspiracy? Posts that can not be verified as having anything to do with anything in Natalee's case.

Posts with incorrect information posted so that some of us over there would make connections. Example: Montanja 10....Who lives there Kermit. Why would you let me waste my time believing that a friend of Joran and his family live at that address. If your post had not been corrected by another kind Monkey, I might still believe this to this day. I would have followed another direction in my research.

Here is another post of yours Kermit that on checking is totally incorrect and because of which posters on this Forum formed opinions...

Kermit(1/30/08)
I don't think he was gone for two hours just telling Paulus the family has arrived.
I think he was at a meeting with Paulus at the house for those couple of hours - fixing phones!Getting rid of evidence.Remember it was his board of director attorney, Lincoln Gomez who immediately came on Fox and gave interviews. Follow the connection of him and you'll see the disgusting pattern that is weaved and they usually end up at banks!
Remember I posted the picture of the CMB bank that Paulus went to make a deposit the next day, you know that is what most good dad's do when they have taken their son in for questioning is get to the bank!The bank is next to Digicel! Follow Charles Croes from the boss watch on Paulus wrist to Lincoln Gomez to Antonio Carlosto the paid shills online
it will all start to add up.[/i]

Kermit you have posted this info more thn once...and from what I recall of the discussions that followed, posters had Paulus going into the CMB Bank and next door to see Charles Croes about fixing phones.

A few weeks back I checked...
According to all the pictures of the CMB branches that is not the bank in Noord where Paulus said he went.
None of the pimps had Digicell phones, from the PVs they had Setar. 
Charles Croes works at the Airport for Aruba Fastphones.

So Kermit what is the purpose of this post, which as I said has been posted more than once? Just who is trying to confuse who here.

I will be back with the post I mentioned yesterday where you led some of us in Shango on a merry dance with information that could not be verified. The famous fly by? Days and days of research, hours and hours and pages and pages of posting.

My Agenda Kermit is the truth...It appears from some of your posts we may not have the same agenda...

Wreck...You were right...Some of us in Shango were duped.

[MumInOhio]

Kermit...another thing...You have succeeded in pitting poster against poster.

Those that are for you and those of us that don't see things your way have an Agenda.

There has been nastiness in this cage that I would never have believed I would see.

Kermit...From what I see you are posting Your Opinions...You are entitled to them.

I do Not see things the way you do and I have formed my own opinions.

I have questioned your posts and pointed out your mistakes. I have every right to do this. None of us is right all the time, we all make mistakes. Except Kermit it seems.

 Keepthefaith...I believe I answered your question.

Have a Good Day Everyone...

[bastibro]

Kermit...another thing...You have succeeded in pitting poster against poster.

Those that are for you and those of us that don't see things your way have an Agenda.

There has been nastiness in this cage that I would never have believed I would see.

Kermit...From what I see you are posting Your Opinions...You are entitled to them.

I do Not see things the way you do and I have formed my own opinions.

I have questioned your posts and pointed out your mistakes. I have every right to do this. None of us is right all the time, we all make mistakes. Except Kermit it seems.

 Keepthefaith...I believe I answered your question.

Have a Good Day Everyone...

Have a very Good day MumInOhio, God Bless U . .

[Buckeye]

The largest "poster vs. poster" issue has been to "call out" Kermit.

What is wrong with just posting info, if it is different than what has been posted? 

I read Kermit posting Kyle's words.  If Kyle posted other words or different words, than just post those.

There may be good and differing opinions.  It is hard to get to them because instead of the "ideas" being posted, there is accusations regarding the "person" posting the idea.

A post about setar vs. digicel is interesting.  The psychological analysis of the original post is distasteful.  That is the poster vs. poster issue.  The posting of quotes and statements is not poster vs. poster.  If the problem is Kyle or Silvetti, just post something they said that contradicts the quotes posted.

I have been here a long time. Please give some credit.  I don't know of many here that would just believe what was said simply because of who said it. It isn't Kermit wins, you lose. 

[wingnut]

Does anyone have an idea at what point in the ocean search that the detective and his brother met with the Persistence crew?  I'm curious as to if it was before the search began...or at what point?

Kyle said: "Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case. He claimed that his brother had a vision about Natalee¢s body offshore and had coordinates. He and his brother agreed to meet on the Persistence. The detective¢s brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap.

So, they were contacted around the time Caps started posting here.

And didn't Caps say that he himself dove down to the cage (meaning he knew exactly what the latitude/longitude of the cage was)?  The cage was still there, why didn't divers take the cage?  Also, caps says Salvetti said nothing in the cage except plastic-then WHY did they make a dive and retrieve all that "plastic" and then test something within the cage?

EXACTLY.  The contents are referred to as remains.  If it was just plastic, why would you collect it, bag it and sample it?  You wouldn't.  Additionally, the FBI sampled a piece of "fabric" that was sent to them by Richardson (though it took him TWO WEEKS to send it).  Not plastic.  FABRIC.

[MumInOhio]

The largest "poster vs. poster" issue has been to "call out" Kermit.

What is wrong with just posting info, if it is different than what has been posted? 

I read Kermit posting Kyle's words.  If Kyle posted other words or different words, than just post those.

There may be good and differing opinions.  It is hard to get to them because instead of the "ideas" being posted, there is accusations regarding the "person" posting the idea.

A post about setar vs. digicel is interesting.  The psychological analysis of the original post is distasteful.  That is the poster vs. poster issue.  The posting of quotes and statements is not poster vs. poster.  If the problem is Kyle or Silvetti, just post something they said that contradicts the quotes posted.

I have been here a long time. Please give some credit.  I don't know of many here that would just believe what was said simply because of who said it. It isn't Kermit wins, you lose. 

Buckeye...I for one do not intend to respond to any more of Kermit's posts about my motives or agenda. I honestly don't care what Kermit thinks.

It is counter-productive, a diversion and a complete waste of time.