Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

I tried on the last thread, but didn't get it in in time...;(

Hello everyone!!  ;)

Quote from Tylergal brought over from last thread:

I think Simian and Shango are island sympathizers who want to tease the family and lead them off the path of those who are involved by making up this riddle. Of course, there is a lot to the riddle. We know it's about useless human beings who are involved in this for money and we know they employ people to kill people, to bury people and we know that the VDS/VDS families are right in the "Middle of the Island" involved in this, but that does not a prosecution make. If S&S wanted to help, they would take evidence to our FBI to ensure that someone is prosecuted and the family knows what happened. Enough of their BS.


Think on these words. They have a ring of truth in them.  Waiting for my answers, yet again.  :roll:

Hi Monkeys!!

I had the case all solved, but lost it in the lock out.........................I feel amnesia taking over....... :lol:

Has Paulus gotten his payoff from the courts yet?  I thought I heard that the younger Sloot is visiting Florida?  Does that mean that the Sloots have interest here in Florida too??  That would help on the civil case, if we can show they have assets here but I assume if they do, they are well hidden..

And you know how much I care for that Shango... :roll:   You're preaching to the choir in this post!!  Good job!

Hi mrsred and how are you doing?  I had some coffee for you but it got cold, sorry..

Klaasend wrote:

The word is this thread is about to lock. Also, MF at FOB said this morning that it appears Dompig will be out of a job very soon.

San wrote:

I think Dompig will turn up at another job.  This is all part of Aruba's plan.  Van der Straaten retires, KJ will be leaving near the end of the year and now it's Dompigs turn.  Next in line will be Dennis Jacobs.  They will came that Jacobs has health issues (fat) and needs to retire.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/ernesto-alicia200.jpg)

Sorry for the stereotype, but that's a "goomba" if I ever saw one!
I think the reason he dropped out of public view is because of discussions just like we are having.

I would, personally have had more faith in the whole Shango thing... if my friend who has a gamer's forum hadn't told me that Shango is a gamer's thing....

I so wanted to believe that they were trying to tell us something... but now I just don't know.... same with the videos...

were they put out there to lead us all down a path with no answers?

Oh Third, you sweetie!  I have been missing your insightful comments.  How are you?

Rumors has it that Jacobs isn't all that fat, actually he weights about 105 lbs and what makes him look fat is all the evidence that he is hiding..

Who's that?

Good One Terry!

Absolutely.  Let's put it this way I wouldn't want to be sitting near him right now :lol:

I'm good...thanks!!  It's been a while, huh?  Your hair looks VERY nice today!  ;)

I'm actually listening to Dana's show right now.  Been a little busy to do it this past weekend.  And you?  How you doin'?  How was your holiday?

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   Good one!

Hiya, Mrs. Red! Hey, Third! Hello everybody that missed my wave this morning!

Well you can do the strip search :lol:

It depends on your perspective.  If you look at Shango/Simian as the all-knowing and having all answers, yes we are being led down a path of no conclusion.  If you look at Shango/Simian as a means to info and can read between the lines, with enough background on both subjects, then you glean what appears to be a conflict between the two characters.  I know I am not making sense to those that don't follow it, but to those that are into this stuff, I just made all the sense in the world.   :wink:

Terry, you have forced my Folger's all onto my monitor. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Is that a Miami night club promoter guy who is related to somebody - Last name starts with A............  getting old memory poor!

Third
My holiday was filled with good food and fireworks.  Enjoyed it and now I must return to my dreary life as hall monitor once again.  :roll:

ss LaCoyle



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: NC
   
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject:    Reply with quote
Another Google hit re Freddy's big brother:

"Our pleadings to the glam-gods were answered one Tuesday night with a very cool party called "The Loft @ Rumi" put on by owner Alan Roth and savage boy-toy, Ernesto "the fabulous" Arambatzis."

And the picture is not to be missed:
http://www.southbeach-usa.com/columns/news-boy/newsboy55.htm
_________________
Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable--Bertrand Russell

Good find, Tess.  Did Paulus go to Florida in summer 2005 to get recompense from Ernesto for payment of all the attorneys.  Ernesto is able to fund it and would willingly do so, in order to circumvent any charges that might arise out of this such as human trafficking which leads a dirty and ugly trail to his greasy body.

CBB... hey!!!  I have been missing you!!

I think Shango and Simian WERE attempting to lead us in the right path in the beginning.  I also believe they were told to shut up.

I also believe our Aruban posters were told to shut up if they knew what was good for them.

That's Freddy's older brother.

That's Freddy's brother, third.

 This morning we've been looking at why Paulus got a lawyer for Freddy, the possibililty that Paulus was afraid of Freddy's family, (mafia suspected), Freddy's involvement the night Nat went missing.....anybody got the link of the uncropped picture?, and had gotten to Freddy's brother who is front and center in "clubland".

 Freddy's gangland brother.

Oh no, I can see that Lala's... I was just pondering ...

That's GREAT to hear Lala's!  I too had a GREAT extended 4-day weekend...culminated with a GREAT fireworks show last night!  But, as you, I TOO have to return to my "normal" work life...

I do believe that you are right about two of them, in particular, who turned on Natalee's family about the time all the many anti-Natalee blogs were popping up.  Money was exchanging hands and lives being threatened.  When money talks and people are unable to any longer.

The last picture on that link shows a picture of "Joey Arias".

That name sounds familiar too.

With all due respect Klass (because you know I DO respect you and your opinions)..if Shango did in fact know something...instead of "leading us in the right path", he should have just taken us there directly!  The games should have been left for the kids to play... :roll:

If Paulus was afraid of Freddy's family, then so was ALE. Their fear may have taken the form of fear of loosing additional unreported income, but there is no question that Freddy has been protected. Again, KJ has participated by ommision, if nothing else.

Mrs. Red
You just keep pondering. It helps to open new trains of thought from which something might give us a clue to help this case along.  We have come to a stalemate of sorts now.  Aruba is slowly removing all the powers that are in the know.  Once they are scattered across the globe it will be much more difficult to ever prosecute this case and find answers for the family.  I think any effort to keep things in the spotlight is should be welcomed with open arms.  Even if some of us may disagree.  Otherswise, this case and the answers we all seek will be lost forever. That would be a sad conclusion to a great and noble effort on the part of this forum.

The article says that Freddy's brother made his way onto the scene from the 'modeling' angle.

Another one I would never take for a 'model'.  :shock:  At least not GQ or even Calvin Klein.

This is really starting to smell worse every day :cry:

I hope we have something on tv tonight about the case.  I might even listen to Julia if I have too..  Whats with her accent, I picture Julia wearing a french beret and a silk ascot slurping from a brandy snifter that she swirls around in her palm this concoction of two parts vodka and 3 parts Ensure Adult Liquid Nutritional Supplement. I can see her now saying to Joe T. (HEY, J.T., GET ME MY SMOKES. HEY J.T., PUT GRETA ON THE TUBE. It’s a giant brandy Snifter and on the side it says: John F Kennedy High School 1972 Senior Prom and on the other side it says WE’VE ONLY JUST BEGUN. She found it a yard sale last year selling for a quarter an they wouldn’t go down to her final offer of a dime. So she stole it.  
I guess I better do some work are I will get myself into trouble..  Everyone have a good day and keep positive thoughts.. The above was to make me laugh, I do that a lot..

http://www.funjet.com/destinations/FROMMERs_DrillDown_serverSide.asp?TYPE=NIT&DEST_ID=13&DETAIL_ID=28486&Dest=LAS

Lots more on this bad boy by googling, i.e., the Circle de soleil show soon to appear in Vegas.

I do believe Freddy IS involved...probably as deep as the other (3).  But, I'd have some hesitation believing that they had any fear of his family based on organized crime affiliations.  If anything, I'd believe Freddy was being "protected" under the umbrella of protection provided to the VDS family...

You hit the nail right on the head Klaas.

:x  :shock:  :evil:  :twisted:  :P  :shock:

My tiny url did not work. :x  :roll:  :D   See, Lala's, it happens to all of us.   :?:

As many of these things as I do and not today.

Tyler, I was given tickets to this show the last time I was in Vegas. I saw it. It's awful!!!!! Forget the morality thing...I can enjoy bawdiness with the best of them if it's entertaining. This show was just awful!!!!

That could be... I am just rethinking a lot of what i thought... but I still think the 3 are guilty and that there is a lot more to this than them... and I still believe that Freddy is involved.... along with Guido...

Klaas........do you have a picture of Freddy's house? Should I look in the thread you created? I was wondering about the appearance of wealth.

I need to go take a shower after reading that article.  They creep me out!!

I have been watching younger sloot's myspace page (if, indeed it is really his..it seems to be)...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=16063334
Last comment there was on 7/2/2006 and asks 'how's the USA'...

Guido traded cars.  Freddy had a witness who said he was in Florida at a family reunion.  Looks like Paulus got stuck with all the dirty work as these two had alibi's.  "The alibi is not an alibi."  Freddy was not in Florida.

No, I don't have a picture of Freddy's house.  All I know is that Freddy lives VERY close to Joran's house.

I look at this crime as a big tree but the main root is Joran and the other branches are the Kalpoe's and smaller branches as others that helped in the crime and others that helped in the coverup.. If Joran was sick that night with the flu, we would have Natalee here today.. Its too bad that Joran and Natalee crossed paths..  Natalee wasn't even the intended victim most likely.  The sad part if it wasn't that night then someone else would of been a victim when Joran got better.. I do believe there are others out there and I just wish they would come out and tell all..

I don't think Shango and Simian were exonerating JK2 in any way, I think they were simply saying that more were involved.

BINGO

My only problem with this theory is the fact that if Shango & Simian were told to "Shut up", it would require identification.  And, in my opinion, if they were identified, we'd have learned of those identities long ago.  There's plenty of "investigators" on this site (along w/others) who would have dug that up by now...

I just tried to go back and copy the link to the uncropped photo, and lost it somehow. If anyone hasn't seen that in a while, it's worth a second look.

Do we still have the entire Shango/Simian stuff?  Is it lost forever?

DOUBLE BINGO.
I'd bet a lot on that one.

One can wish, can't they??  ;)

You are trying to get in my book aren't you?  :roll:

Well, It sounds to me that maybe Jossy could help us out on Freddy's family. He sure seems to know a great deal about everyone on that island.

I have to run..........check back in later. Have a great one, monkeys!

I think it was the old "bait and hook" to get our attention.  The intent to
mislead was there all along.  Same with Julia befriending Beth, just long enough to get some inside information she could use to start her spin of lies and misinformation.  Couple of times, however, JR has gone so far over the top as to defeat her own purpose like that book she was supposedly going to write.

The effort was redoubled when Beth became adament and demanded answers and then again with the boycott.  But yes, I think any Aruban posters were made to feel they were like traitors to help in any way.  I wonder with their mistake about tourism if they still feel that way.  For one thing, they all did seem to have other interests that were surprising to say the least.  

And that's why with all these Arubans in Florida  in the Sleaze Industry I want to know how we know which one exactly was posting as Shango, etc.  

.

You guys know I keep records. Solve this part of the riddle and you are well on your way to learning the actual whereabouts of Freddy or maybe even Lorenzo. :shock:
Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Of course not Lala! ;)  But, I can't disguise the fact that I think all that Shango/Simian stuff is pure junk.  Again, just my opinion.  But, the fact remains if they had any real relevant info, they should have gone to the FBI initially...instead of playing word games on a blog (which had to be  torturous to the family).  If that opinion gets me in a book, then at the very least that books becomes just a little bit "cooler"...;)

Not sure about the Front Page originals archived, but I saved this:

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts

My comments in red above.

One person who did NOT seem in the least intimidated by Freddie is Anita.  I believe she is the one technically who quizzed him on what the polis asked even though it was Paulus who was arrested.

Anita seemed to be supervising the posts of Melody and it was Melody only who placed Freddie in Joran's apartment.  Not only on the night Natalee disappeared but the next day even.  It was my understanding that Joran called Freddie at Joran's apartment from the tennis club and told Freddie that Natalee was missing and supposedly asked Freddie what to do.

Now I need some of you who were posting back then to verify this next part.  I remember her saying that Freddie said Joran came home early and said he had a nice time and met a nice girl and did not have sex.  I have forgotten the dates of Melody's posts and lots about them so does anybody remember this part?

The reason I say remember is because of that site owner's penchant for deleting anything that he wanted and he did one whole thread because of Melody.   :roll:  Her posting style changed abruptly and started to sound just like Anita which someone pointed out and got banned for doing.  But does anybody remember Melody posting that part about nice time/no sex?  Was it Anita re-writing the events even after she discussed Natalee's underwear?  Well, if she would tell that searched property whopper, she would tell anything.   :roll:


.

1.  None of the front page posts have ever been lost
2.  Several of us have compilations of all the Shango/Simian stuff

Thanks 2N, mine were incomplete.   :wink:

.
Yes, but if Shango were to turn out to be Freddie's brother, that certainly would cast things in a different light now wouldn't it?

We would know not to believe him for one second.  Not that I do anyway.

.

good discussion going on just as I have to leave...

I will see y'all later!

Very astute, Klaas.  Good work.

Hey Anna!  Forgot to greet you when I saw you initially...;)

Maybe Shango is a girl.  :shock:

.
Hey, Third!
How are things in Purpleville?  It is overcast here today so a bit cooler.  Much welcomed but means I have to get busy.  I did want somebody posting with Melody to confirm what I remembered.

See, complete conflict in what Melody said and Freddie's alibi per scubajap who said he was at an all-night family reunion.  Mine always ended long before then.   :roll: But I have no doubt Freddie could be the one with the alibi instead of Lorenzo as Tito mislead us to believe.

Good grief!  Doesn't anybody on that island ever tell the truth about
anything???

.

Good afternoon friends..... :)

Anna, I remember reading the Melody comments last year.  Since I only ventured to read on other sites occasionally, I want to say I read it here, as someone may have quoted, but that may not be accurate.

Klaasend, thanks for clearing up the original archives.  I did not feel qualified to answer, and status has been somewhat the same since the outages (ie, not accessible at the moment).

I fear by the time the comment about the "boyfriend from earlier in the week," was injected by BonDia, the blue eyed Dutch boy in the reserves. :roll:  :lol:  :roll:

Tito also interjected the little "Lorenzo Wever" comment to lump two players into one and throw everyone off. Tito and Ruben are probably old, worn-out, hanger-on "model" photographers who were placed by Freddy, Inc.

Anna or Tylergal - anyone remember when Melody was posting about Freddy over at RWV?  Was it June or July or later?  TIA

Anna, you just mentioned Tito and what came to mind was his comment about Natalee while here that evening last year by special invite, pointing blame on her.  Makes my blood boil remembering.

.
Tyler,
See my post above about Melody saying Joran came home and told Freddie that he had a nice time and met a girl/no sex.  Do I remember that correctly?  Odd considering Anita's statement about Natalee's underwear, etc.

But did she say that?  Do you recall?  Remember a whole thread disappeared, the one where she gave out her personal phone number I believe but no need to make the entire thread be gone but it was disappeared.

.

I recall that as the exact way it was posted.  Many things from RWV disappeared or were edited, when one went back to view them, and in particular anything stated by Scuba or Melody, and even all the posts that a person I trust felt was Anita, and he called her on those, and she disappeared as did her screen name and posts.  Somone was definitely being paid off.

I coipied that post with her phone number before the "big eraser" got it.  In fact, I still have it but the number has been disconnected. :wink:

I did call and speak with her on one occasion.  She is a lot more savvy than most 19-year-old girls.  She told me she was 2 years Joran's senior but she was still in school.  Must have been studying from the same book as Satish. :lol:

Morning, Tyler.  Zumanity has been at the New York, New York for a few months now.  I heard it was the worst of the Cirque shows.  I've seen Mystere (Treasure Island)--I'd rank very good--and will give you my opinion of Love (Mirage) when I return next week.  

Anyway, if you read the rest of the article that Klaas linked for us about Ernesto, Freddy's brother, I noticed some significantly big names at the party--Janet Jackson and entourage, the Miami Mayor Alex Penelas.  This is Miami Vice, for sure.  Ernesto and Freddy's family is MOB connected, big-time.  This also seems obvious in the way that Joran is protecting Freddy and trying to disassociate him from the crime, much as Deepak is trying to disassociate Satish.  We understand Deepak's motivation, but what is Joran's?  By the way, wasn't there some Shango/Simian talk about one of the suspects who had an "air-tight" alibi, some sort of party he was hosting?  People came to the conclusion this was Lorenzo, but what if this was Freddy?  Freddy may have been the one with the "air-tight" alibi if it was provided by his family.

Anna
I remember Freddy being Joran's alibi as a houseguest that night.  Alas, I can't remember too many details.  Would that then leave Freddy as the "alibi so strong" it can't be broken or not?  Just pondering as Mrs. Red would say.

You are exactly right and I would venture to say Seedyrum and MrsJimiH still have those posts.  That was before the big blow-up among these two and the owner, while MrsJimiH was still funding that blog.

Klaas,
I am looking for the dates Melody posted.  This is from scubajap and sort of confirms what you said about Aruban posters although she is trying to make herself the victim:

Interesting.....


did they give up? or were they told to stay off the boards?

Posted by: slappy | Nov 8, 2005 1:02:56 AM
BINGO!
bye all.


Posted by: scubajap | Nov 8, 2005 5:55:59 AM

or were they told to stay off the boards?

Posted by: slappy | Nov 8, 2005 1:02:56 AM
didn't give up. Bye

Posted by: scubajap | Nov 8, 2005 5:56:45 AM

oh, and not to put to sinister a spin on it, it was by people that care about me, and my safety.
So bye for now.

Posted by: scubajap | Nov 8, 2005 5:59:39 AM

Posted by: gagal_05 | Nov 27, 2005 5:25:57 PM

I totally agree w/ that statement...so many lies, so many people who lie in this case.....(http://www.nearlygood.com/smilies/blowup.gif) (http://www.nearlygood.com)

Lalas,
The problem is we have Freddie both at Joran's and at a family reunions where he was seen by "dozens of people" for that same night.

So I don't know where he really was.

Who or what ability does Shango have to be able to utilize this phrase he so often uses?

  "I must feed the messengers"

Totally agree with you.  Someone needed to be "pinched" early on to break that alibi and it wasn't done.

If Red/Tom and/or Klaas feels this is a post that should not be here, they can remove it.  I have no problem with it, but there is a lot here to "chew on."  I did not make this post, but most here know who did, and there are certainly some valid points herein.

...

First, the background info:

Paulus and Joran both gamble regularly at the Excelsior and other casinos. How much money does Paulus and/or Joran owe in gambling debts, and to whom? Known mafia families, like the Posners, the Arends, and the Cuntrera- Caruana families, own the Excelsior and other casinos.

Now, consider the Dutch system of contracts for favors. This is generally acceptable in Dutch society, even in legitimate businesses. For example, a contractor might help a land developer get cheaper materials to build with and save said developer some money in exchange for future business. Happens everywhere, actually, not just Dutch lands. This also works illegally: a judge who agrees to help keep criminals out of prison could very well expect to get ‘gifts’ from said criminal’s bosses. However, Paulus failed his judge’s exam, which means he can’t actively participate in this system of corruption as it currently exists on Aruba. So if he or Joran owes some very bad people money…hmmm…how will he pay it off?

A little something about Joran: he is known to have ‘taken advantage of young women’ as an early witness told Greta and CNN very early in the investigation- long before even Beth’s aborted bombshell…you know, back when suspects weren’t all obviously planted or put up to coming forward. What does this tell us? Well, it tells us that Joran DOES know how to find a ‘mark’, win her confidence and trust, separate her from her friends and/or drug her, take her away for a little fun…regardless of if she wants to or not. Deepak and possibly Satish have helped in the past with this; remember ME’s comment about ‘magic transport and tragic mansport’? It is a very common trick in the Caribbean for fake taxi drivers to pick up unsuspecting tourists, usually to extort money from them. Drunk and drugged girl would be even more vulnerable to such a trick…

Joran is known to work at the Excelsior as a drug runner for clients on the floor (who owns the Excelsior? Isn’t it Michael Posner, known Mafioso who just happens to be on vacation and not in Aruba right now)? Joran knows people, just like daddy does.

Van Der Sloot family life (a criminal profiler helped me on this): Joran has severe behavioral problems. His parents have always let him do what he likes…the ‘house rules’ his parents spoke of are nonexistent. He has no respect for woman because Anita is browbeaten and treated as inferior by Paulus. Anita is in denial that her son could do anything wrong: she still thinks he is some brilliant kid with an academic and athletic future when in reality he has proven to be only mediocre in both. She helps him improve his grades at school, and I don’t mean by tutoring him. She has access to school records, test scores, etc etc…

Kalpoe family life (again, the criminal profiler helped me puzzle this out): Satish may know what happened that night, but he is afraid to talk just like everyone else. We all know what happens when you squeal on a mafia family. Satish wants to make his mother happy and live up to her expectations; remember she is also deluded into thinking her little boys are perfect angels. Deepak and Satish do not have a father, but I hear from my Aruban contacts that their stepfather is FURIOUS about them bringing this onto the family. Maybe it is a cultural thing, but would he be furious if he thought the Kalpoes were innocent of wrongdoing? Deepak wants desperately to fit in with the ‘cool’ Dutch kids, so he sticks to Joran like glue and is very open to anything Joran suggests. Notice that Satish’s lawyer has started distancing his client from Deepak. Why? And why did Paulus pay for the Kalpoes’ attorneys at the beginning? And how does Paulus afford such a high-profile lawyer for his own son much less two low-end pimp wannabes when he is unemployed and Anita works as a schoolteacher? Am I missing something, or do Dutch schoolteachers have one helluva union?

Kalpoes left Suriname under some kind of trouble with the law…sexual assault is what I heard Deepak was charged with or suspected of. At this time Twittys and Holloways are looking into this but I haven’t heard what they’ve turned up. The thought occurs to me that that the Kalpoes might have come to Aruba with ready-made connections from Suriname…

Paulus Van Der Sloot is known to be friends with former polis chief Jan Van Der Straaten. Van Der Straaten is suspected of accepting bribes from drug dealers and others on the island to look the other way and help get their people out of trouble. In fact, he was suspended for two weeks by a former PM himself once, until the PM discovered that was not in his scope of powers and Van Der Straaten got his job back.

Now with the groundwork laid, we go to the theory:

Joran and possibly Paulus are suddenly saddled with a big gambling debt to somebody they are very afraid of when Paulus fails his judge’s exam and is stuff out from participation in the corruption in not only Aruba but throughout the Netherland Antilles. Well…Joran gets the idea that he can kidnap a girl for sale through his mafia/ casino/ drug dealer contacts to forgive the family debt...or more likely, someone who knows about his exploits on the island suggested this to him (remember he’s really not that smart). So, relying on his past experience taking advantage of young women, he goes out to find a girl…maybe any girl, maybe part of the deal was to find a blonde girl like Natalee for a prospective client who wanted such. I hear the Arabs, Sicilians, and South Americans LOVE blondes…very exotic to them.

So Joran goes about his usual routine, but this time with a much different goal in mind. He was hanging out with the Mountain Brook kids all week, so he had plenty of time to choose a mark. He tricks Natalee just like all those girls before: finds out when her last day on the island will be, hooks up with her that night (as early as 9:30 according to Nat’s friend Francis Byrd), most likely at the hotel casino. Apparently Natalee and a lot of her fellow students went to C&Cs around 11:30 pm, just after the Soul Beach Music Festival. This is where Joran went into action. He orders her a drink at C&Cs, slips her something to relax her (or has one of his buddies at C&C’s do it; I’ve been told by visitors to the island to always watch the bartenders there make your drink, especially if you’re female), and late that night offers to get her a taxi and share it with her to her hotel (he supposedly told Natalee he was a tourist staying at the same hotel and acted like a tourist according to other students). Now, did he assault her at C&Cs? I don’t know. I can’t imagine why Natalee would go off with him if he did, unless she really was under the influence of something…probably something stronger than 151. This is what I do know: Nat’s friends at C&C’s only saw her drink two drinks that night…so how did she get so out of sorts? Was she doing drugs? Yeah, but not of her own free will…Joran told LE she was, but later admitted that was a lie (for a complete list of Joran’s lies to date, see http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html). And it does NOT mesh with what we know about Natalee’s personality and morality at all. He takes her to a ‘taxi’ around the corner (Deepak and Satish in his car, possibly with a TAXI sign just for looks), and off they go. Some classmates say they saw Natalee get into what they thought was a taxi- a gray taxi. Deepak’s car is gray; what a coincidence. One of Natalee’s classmates, Alana Jordan, sees Natalee walk off with Joran. She asks Natalee if she’s okay (Why? Alana noticed something was not right…probably subconsciously) and Nat says ‘Yes’. Alana reports that Natalee was coherent but not talkative…sounds like a drug called ‘zombie dust’ (ref: http://sec-global.com/advisories/SA0002270400.html) to me. Alana also states that Natalee and Joran weren’t touching…not if Nat was so smitten with Joran as he claims, where is the public display of affection? Alana further says that Natalee told her she was going back to her hotel, the Holiday Inn (and Natalee thought she was too). Natalee did NOT say “Joran invited me to see the beach” or the lighthouse or to go to his place. Natalee told her friend her INTENTION was to go back to her hotel. Joran gets to the rendezvous, and drops Natalee off. Now it is possible that Natalee was just meant to be with whoever Joran left her with for a few nights, but I doubt it. At this time I feel certain that Natalee was deliberately kidnapped for the sole purpose of selling her to someone to satisfy the Van Der Sloot family’s debts (if it hadn’t been Natalee, it would’ve been some other girl). At any rate, if Natalee was meant only as a one-night fling, then somebody deviated from the plan after Joran left, and that is when things got ugly. As an alternative, I offer the Mr. Pink scenario: whoever took Nat that night had access to Mr. Pink Productions, and that might have been where she was at when she made that 3 am call that let Beth know WITHOUT A DOUBT Natalee was kidnapped, or at least not with people she wanted to be with. A Twitty family friend tells me that “I don’t know these people” was the code Beth had with her kids just in case. So while Beth might not know if Natalee is still alive, she KNOWS Natalee was kidnapped that night. Mr. Pink Productions is an online porn studio that DOES recruit women from Aruba to be in their films and DOES make use of scouts to find potential actresses, as several witnesses who have been approached by said company told Beth Twitty. Mr Pink Productions shoots a lot of their footage on yachts and private islands as well, which means that anyone with access to MPP also has access to a yacht to take Natalee away, or an island to hide her on! Of course, she might have been at Joran’s house or one of the properties the Van Der Sloots own elsewhere on the island too, or at Lorenzo Van Rijn’s ranch (which, incidentally LE has NOT been allowed anywhere near even now- confirmed by an Aruban contact). Where the call was placed from I don’t know, only that it was the east side of the island and it was tracked... most likely by the DEA, since the DEA has a forward command post on Aruba. The DEA agent said that he was there on vacation, but I wonder… At 4 am Beth gets another more indistinct phone call, probably Natalee. All that is really distinct is a FEMALE voice in the background asking, “Are you calling home?” Do any women work for Mr. Pink? Who are Joran’s female friends…what about that one who is Marten Van Der Burg’s buddy, the one he wanted a ‘featherless bird’ from? Anyway, Deepak drops Joran and Nat off sometime between 1:30 and 2:40 and goes home.

At 2:40 am that morning Joran calls Deepak: I need a ride. Again Shango has some truth to him: Joran made the delivery and got the Hell out! There were people there that he did NOT want to be around at that particular time! The hand-off might have been at the racquet club, as Jossy Mansur suggested. Anyway, Joran calls his dad and tells him that the drop was made. Paulus reportedly makes an ATM withdrawal (enough for a plane ticket back to the Netherlands for Joran and himself I bet) and is supposedly at McDonalds at 11:00 pm with Joran. However, As Beth said in an interview to Fox News on 07/17, Paulus was not seen on security camera footage at all that night. Where was he? Did HE actually pick up Joran and not Deepak? I’m told that it only takes about 5 minutes to drive from the McDonald’s to the Van Der Sloot house, 15 minutes to go from the Van Der Sloot home to Carlos ‘n’ Charlie’s, no more than 10 minutes to go from the Van Der Sloot home to the Racquet Club. 3:15 am Joran texts Deepak and says, “I’m home”. How much you willing to bet it takes about 15 minutes to get from the McDonald’s to the Van Der Sloot home, with a quick stop at the ATM machine included? Good thing too, because around 3:00 am Deepak and Satish are washing the car…who the Hell washes their car at 3 am?! Can we say, “getting rid of evidence” that Natalee WAS in their car at some point in time? 5:30 am on 05/31 someone at the Van Der Sloot home e-mails Steve Croes, the owner of the cell phone company that supplies tourists with rental phones if I’m not mistaken. Probably telling him to find Nat’s rented cell phone (I’m not able to verify this second cell phone, but apparently a lot of tourists rent these phones since reception is often bad on Aruba) and erase the call history! 6:40 am Joran shows up at school, driven by Paulus (some people say he rode the bus). Joran is dead tired, even falls asleep in class, and has a nasty bruise on his cheek…probably from where Natalee got one good lick in on him! Despite what people have said, a 5’-4” girl can slug a guy his size in the face. Principal comments that Joran looks terrible. Now, despite what poor clueless Anita thinks, Joran is an idiot, and brags about what transpired between him and Natalee…another conquest according to him. A school official who knows that Beth is in Aruba by now tells Anita (who teaches at the same school as Joran attends, remember) to tell him to stop talking about Nat because she is missing. Then Paulus calls him and tells him the same thing. Finally he shuts up…like I said, not that bright a boy. Sorry to break that to you, Anita. Meanwhile, what is Paulus up to? Well, he calls his good buddy Jan van Der Straaten- DirtyHand himself- and lets him know what happened. Jan, being the good buddy he is, begins to arrange the cover-up since he knows Beth is already on Aruba. Beth shows up later that day at the Van Der Sloot home looking for Joran. After 20 minutes of blaring a police siren, and Paulus shows up. Why did it take him so long? Well…either he was hiding evidence or maybe frantically deleting stuff off a computer, or he was hiding Natalee in case LE did come in and search (Beth feels Nat was back there at the time, and maybe she was). Paulus sends Beth (who has no idea of this hideous corruption and cover-up yet) on a wild goose chase for Joran, thereby buying him time to either get Natalee out of there or further destroy evidence.

The first of the bogus witnesses: a man says he saw the Kalpoes and Joran burying a bag at the landfill, and at a distance of over 80 yards (at least 240 feet, about the length of a city block) he saw blonde hair and a naked female torso sticking out of a bag. He says the boys buried this under trash and put a kiddie pool over it. First of all, go outside and walk to the end of your block. Look down a street to the far end of said block. How much detail can you see? Could you see someone with a body in a bag? Possibly. Could you see who they were, what was in the bag, or see someone watching them through a fence? Probably not. Regardless if you believe Natalee is dead or not, that is mighty suspicious. Personally I think the landfill witness is just after the reward money- or maybe he saw something but wasn’t sure what he saw…I kind of wonder how many people it takes to bury a body anyway, and why they are out in broad daylight in a public place doing it? At any rate, at some point Natalee was taken by boat off the island (maybe via one of the yachts Mr. Pink has access to, maybe hidden for awhile on one of those little private islands) or to Curacao (one of the Van Der Sloot cell phone calls was traced to Curacao). From there…well, I don’t know, but probably to Venezuela: very close, very much anti-American. Little if any CIA or DEA or any American presence there. The State Department report below says that woman moved through Aruba often go there and Suriname. I think Nat was on Aruba several days before they managed to get her away, and probably was moved several times while there. The ranch to the Van Der Sloot home (or vice-versa), the Van Der Sloot home to a remote cave or maybe Arikok, but finally on a yacht. Remember, the judges flown in were also from Curacao, and everyone in the legal community in that area knows everyone else, a situation the FBI called ‘incestuous’. Paulus might have had help from his lawyer buddies there to make sure everyone looked the other way, who knows? Remember…Natalee must be delivered ALIVE to her buyer if the deal is to go through…even with all the heat at that time, she was no use dead. Would this take a lot of help to accomplish? Sure, but between the crime contacts, Van Der Straaten, and Paulus there was plenty of help to be had in doing this. The key term is ‘orchestrated’.

What does this all mean? Well…

1. Joran, Paulus, and the Kalpoes know what happened to Natalee, but they did not kill her (though they may very well have assaulted her as Dave H. and Beth alleged). These losers will die if they say anything. Again, Shango comes through. Luckily, Jan Van Der Straaten is there to cover everything up. FACT: an LE officer leaked to an investigator I know in Aruba that Jan was single handedly stalling the investigation and orchestrating the cover-up. At one point he even threatened Beth with stopping the investigation dead if she didn’t Please be quiet. Confirmed, folks…remember that ‘bombshell’ Beth claimed she had but never disclosed? Now you know why she never disclosed it. I would not be at all surprised if Van Der Straaten is still helping them cover up from the Netherlands. Hell has a special place for people like him.

2. The first trick LE used was to arrest the two security guards, based on what Joran first said and what Paulus most likely coached him to say when he also got the ‘no body, no crime’ speech. However, someone tipped Beth and LE off that this was a lie. Beth herself publicly said that was a mistake (Jossy helped break that to the media, too), so the guys were let off. Supposedly while they were held one of the Kalpoes apologized to them for their being implicated. Now an Aruban contact I have wants to tell us exactly why they were arrested, claims it was more than just because Joran told them, but this person will not until after Joran’s hearing. If anyone has ideas about this, please let me know…I am at a loss.

3. Second trick: invite the FBI to join the search then make them sit around and do NOTHING productive. Didn’t even let them get into the water. That would make it look like there was an interest in solving the case, it would take a week or more before the FBI agents publicly complained that they didn’t do anything.

4. Third trick: delay, delay, delay. Took LE 11 days to arrest Joran and the Kalpoes. Took a few more days to arrest Paulus. Plenty of time to let Natalee get well outside of Netherlands Antilles so that even if someone wised up to kidnapping at that early date, she would be well ahead of pursuers. Sounds like a good time for key experts to go on vacation: forensics expert goes on vacation. Karin Janssen goes on vacation…that’s a good way to stall. Who else will go on vacation next, the judges in Curacao?
PM Oduber, probably sensing that the integrity of his entire cabinet and any hope of re-election in December is rapidly dwindling, finally orders the FBI be given access to evidence and questioning of the suspect. Immediately, lawsuits start flying from Joran, Satish, and Deepak.
Will take a few days for those to be resolved, and remember every day that passes is one more day that they come to getting off the hook for their part in Natalee’s disappearance.

5. Fourth trick: beat the family down! Tell them this is a murder investigation. Push that in their face EVERY DAMN DAY. Fox News and CNN and MSNBC all eat it up, so all the Twittys and Holloways hear is ‘dead’. The more convinced the family is that Nat is dead, the more likely they will get desperate to accept ANYTHING for their own sakes, just to stop the pain of not knowing. The more they hear that, the more what they think is true and what is a lie will blur…I think Dave almost fell into that trap…until he was on Hannitty & Colmes on August 10 and said that kidnapping was a possibility he is pursuing. But if the Twittys and Holloways did believe Natalee is dead, they’ll stop looking for Natalee, and she will remain lost and the truth of what happened and what pervasive corruption led to her abduction will never be known. Luckily, it didn’t work on Beth or Jug.

6. Fifth trick: Fake evidence. Hair on duct tape…takes awhile to analyze this stuff. Personal items like a towel or ID card will be next…maybe an article of Natalee’s clothes. Problem is, we’re on to them now, as are the Twittys. Anything the LE plants will be rejected outright from now on. We’ll take DNA from the three stooges under improper procedures so it will be inadmissible. Remember those bones that were turned in but never acknowledged? Don’t be surprised if that turns up again with a personal effect like an earring or article of clothing: it’ll take awhile to analyze that and figure out it isn’t human remains..probably a donkey or something. Remember that person-sized hole that TES found in Arikok? How easy would it be for someone to dig that and just…alert TES? Tim Miller, good soul but clueless about all this as he is, was very upset about that. He fell hook, line, and sinker for what that implied, didn’t even think twice about it. Poor guy…he might as well go home and save his organization some money that somebody else can REALLY use. Natalee doesn’t need corpse dogs, she needs rescuers. I understand that Tim has no experience working outside the U.S. and no experience with this kind of corruption, but I think sometimes that the fact that he lost his own daughter has blinded him to other possibilities

7. Sixth trick: stage phony protests. Try to make the Twittys back off by rounding up Arubans who claim to be offended by the Twitty’s comments. Maybe that will make them give up or at least stop with the media…wait! I know! Let’s protect the media instead, since it’s obvious that ANY criticism we give the Twittys will meet with instant wrath in the U.S.! We’ll get together and claim that we’re offended by the way our island and LE is portrayed in the media! Never mind that we’ve brought this all on ourselves by NOT cooperating fully with the FBI, the Twittys, and the Netherlands long before now…

8. Seventh trick: discredit the volunteers from the U.S. I know…let’s claim that TES broke a bunch of turtle eggs. What…nobody believed that lie? Well…let’s claim TES set fire to the dump, and hope the Americans don’t notice that TES left the island four days before the fire started!

7. Last trick (to date): fake witnesses. Now I’m not saying that all the people who have come forward are lying, but its really suspicious that suddenly everyone is coming out of the woodworks saying, “I saw this. I saw that. I played dominos with so-and-so and HE said…”
Keep the family hoping that something is changing in the investigation, make Beth think that ‘sense of urgency’ she wanted to see is happening, run the clock out more. You see, LE is thinking that when September rolls around and Joran is released from lack of evidence that the family will have no recourse but to walk away. “Oh so sorry about your daughter. Cold case. We’ll let you know if we find anything. Now GO HOME…and take the media and PIs and everyone else who is making us look like the slimebags we are with you! But by all means tell your friends to come visit our safe, happy, little island paradise and spend lots of money though.” WHEN, not if that happens, I hope Beth goes public with everything she has that won’t jeopardize Natalee. I also hope there is allowance for civil lawsuits in Dutch law…maybe Natalee’s family can pull an O.J. on the Van Der Sloots and Kalpoes and sue them into poverty. Even if they don’t win they can use a lawsuit to torment those involved and RUIN these people’s lives and make them regret they ever touched Natalee! My hope is Natalee is found as soon as possible. With any luck, before Joran is released. It would be so rewarding to see everyone in Aruba scramble around in a blind panic, knowing their doom is imminent!

Finally, reason why murder is NOT possible:

1. There is no such thing as a perfect crime. Someone will talk, something will turn up, a reliable witness will come forward. The people on Aruba are obviously afraid of something…and it isn’t a failed, fallen judge. If Natalee accidentally died or was murdered, then why would people be so close-mouthed? Why would Joran lie and lie and lie again? Why would the Kalpoes need a lawyer? Who are the Van Der Sloots to the Arubans but another family of Dutch expatriates, people who they hate anyway? But…if Natalee was kidnapped at the direction of a M-A-F-I-A crime boss…well, like I said. We know what happens to people who squeal on those folks. Remember that guy who turned up dead not long after Nat went missing? How much are you willing to bet he saw something he shouldn’t have, and now he’s dead and his girlfriend is being framed for that too? I believe the ‘Columbian necktie’ he got was trademark of South American narcoterrorists. A body cannot be dumped at sea as easily as you think: you have to go WAY out to make sure nothing washes up, and there’s always the problem of people seeing you take the body onto the boat. You can go at night BUT…the DEA has a listening post on the island and they know if any ship leaves under suspicious circumstances. The island has been searched everywhere now…TES even found a way to get access to the well at the Van Der Sloot home via the neighbor’s house. Even if a body was moved repeatedly, every movement is a huge risk.

2. Don’t think this can’t happen to an American. What protects us specifically from anything bad when we’re at home or overseas? As genebernat pointed out in one of his letters, the fact that most of the world hates us kind of makes us targets. Curiously, I hear the average Aruban is very pro-American, even beyond the tourism money and politically. Of course, the Dutch in charge of the island are Socialist like most Europeans and are sympathetic to Venezuela and Chavez!
Hell, the kidnapping of an attractive, young, American woman happened in 1997…her name is Amy Bradley, and she disappeared off a cruise liner off the coast of Curacao. This after someone she met on the ship asked her to go ashore at Aruba and have a drink at C&Cs. Hmmm….

3. Don’t think that human trafficking and forced prostitution is a myth, like I did at first until I did some research. Human trafficking is the most serious but most underreported human rights abuse in the world according to the IOM, and guess what? It almost always involves young women and it almost always involves movement between one country and another. Here’s another tidbit for ya: the DEA has known for years that Aruba is a stopover for drugs bound for the U.S. and Europe. Read the State Department’s 2005 Report on the Trafficking of Persons at
http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/ and take a look at how abysmally the countries near the Netherland Antilles, like Venezuela and Suriname, rank. Here’s a little excerpt about the Netherland Antilles itself:

“THE DUTCH CARIBBEAN AUTONOMOUS REGIONS
Anecdotal reporting suggests that the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, autonomous regions within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, are transit and destination regions for trafficking of women and children for sexual exploitation. Curacao and Saint Maarten, in particular, reportedly are destination islands for women trafficked for the sex trade from Columbia, the Dominican Republic and Haiti. In Curacao (and neighboring Aruba) observers estimate that 500 foreign women are in prostitution, some of whom may have been trafficked. There are also reports of children being trafficked for sexual exploitation as underage prostitutes, particularly from the Dominican Republic. In September 2004, Curacao prosecuted and sentenced two traffickers who trafficked children from Suriname to Curacao using fraudulent documents. Visas for Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles are issued by Dutch Embassies following review by Aruban or Netherlands Antilles’ authorities. Visa controls were reportedly tightened in 2004. Also in 2004, the Dutch government provided 100,000 Euros to an IOM program focused on awareness raising, information dissemination and regional cooperation targeting officials from the Dutch Caribbean.”
You know, the Kalpoes are from Suriname…I wonder if they came to Aruba with knowledge of how or even intent to get involved in this… I have heard a few people suggest this was a first-timer’s botched attempt at getting into the business.
4. Again as genebernat pointed out, this investigation has been approached by even legitimate investigators on the statistical probability that this was homicide. “remember if the odds of something are one in a million we must remember that the one does come up at some point.” Is what gene said exactly. This has happened before also: the young woman’s name is Elizabeth Smart, and she was kidnapped but feared dead for months before she was rescued thanks to her own little sister and she beat the odds.

Thanks to Michael22, genebernat (to name a few) and just about everyone on scaredmonkeys.com forum for helping me piece this theory together. I feel that it holds water pretty well. The important thing…THE most important thing that has happened in this case and for Natalee… is that Beth and Jug are not convinced Natalee is dead and they have strength and determination and hope in the Lord renewed to find Nat no matter what! Mysterious dump fires that start four days after the supposed perps have left the island notwithstanding....what did I tell you guys about LE eventually doing something so stupid that everyone would know it is BS?

Believe it or not, I have a hard copy of the last S/S thread .... I may have it electronically on my computer at home. (And I'm not even an S/S person ...   :? )

Here's a couple of RWV posts I found regarding Melody and Freddy:

Melody is on Freddy's Tickle site..hmmmmm.

Jaime is on Freddy's Tickle site.

Wasn't it Melody that first said that somebody else slept over at Joran's apartment the night NH dissappeared?

This is all becoming very incestuous. I think the walls are caving in on this little circle. The more people involved and brought in the better chance somebody squeals. It's getting real hot down in the Happy Island. Paulus, are you having a good day?

I think Melody may have some 'splaining to do, or at least may know more than she lets on.

Keep up the great work Dan, posters!!

Posted by: watchingclosely | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 12:43 PM

**************************************


the person arrested--is he the same one who spent the night at Joran's apt that night?

If that info came from Melody, could it be that Melody was trying to give somes clues or hints here--under the guise of supporting Joran?

Posted by: bhm mom too | Friday, August 26, 2005 at 03:37 PM


Anna & Tyler - help me look through these threads:

http://tinyurl.com/olbls

Aruba Girl's family owns a restaurant on the island.  I wonder if people eat in a restaurant.

The significant Melody threads are going to be right after Red came back from Aruba, because that is the point at which Dan "hitched his moneywagon" to Scubajap.  Within a few days, Melody was brought on board.  I am looking through my saved material to see what I can find.

Go back and look early August, if you have it.

Also, Deepak probably hadn't been in Aruba that long, so I can see how he might make some mistakes.

Deepak has been in Aruba for years.
The description of how you leave c&c for the mainstreet is totally off. That is the first giveaway. Many other points.
Also I talked to Deepak before the e-mail surfaced-he has his own plans about when and how to tell his story-that e-mail is not it.

Posted by: scubajap | Aug 22, 2005 12:02:31 AM


Look right before or right after this time.  Start early August, go to September.  Both my family members were banned before Katrina.

I think you are correct, but I am speaking of Shango only here and not possible Simian identities.  :wink:

Would you mind emailing them to me when you have time? Email in my profile. Thanks.

Lala's - If I do have it on my home computer, I'll email. If not, you're welcome to the hard copy and I will s-mail it to you. I'll let you know tonight.

Ponder these things while I am gone for a few hours:

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
In the other car.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

Who is in the other car?  

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze
He knows of the forbidden fruit
and the gardeners

Still no definite answer as to the dirty hand identity.  Remember there are several and have been for years.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:48 pm
The Simian was incorrect about the package from the Hague
I told the Simian, but the Simian would not listen
The simian is not a simian, but an austrolopithecus

Does this sound like jesting between friends or a fight amongst rivals?

Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:19 am
Shango must leave to feed the messengers
The gods are talking

What is Shango's day job? Anyone want to venture a guess?


Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.

Who's upset now and why?  What happened to Simian that caused this rift?

Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:01 am
The Simian is getting out. Knows Shango, knows Shock me, knows Checkme. Do not underestimate the power of the ping.
Shango is a dumb copycat. Maybe the Simian should place a call on you. Get you 8 days with a hole to take a dump in. Complementary peanut butter on stale bread for you, you fool.
The Simian is angry. Over and out.
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:09 am
The Simian is disapointed. The Simian repeats himself seldom, but like to say the he only reports ahead of time. The clues were solely to avoid implicating sources. Never to hurt the feeling of the readers.
Seeing how this has been used to foul, the Simian will again say that he will retire.
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:18 am
f*** the poetry. The Simian is a frenchman. Blue blood if you should know.
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:21 am
The Simian doesn’t make predictions. Only gives the group information ahead of time. Predictions are for fools. This is the Simian.
No me hagan mofa. Estoy molesto por las bobedades de Shango y Shock y Checkme. Se creen, pero no son.
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:23 am
?
Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:24 am
This Simian is not the Simian. It is a Doppleganger.

There is definitely a disagreement going on between Shango and Simian. Any thoughts as to why.

I will return later this evening, just pondering once again.

Perhaps Shango was telling too much and implicating politically involved people that Simian did not want to see involved in this.

I do think Shango was trying not so much to reveal the perps (everyone knew who they were), but to reveal the politics on the island that allowed this coverup to occur.  Simian entered the game after Shango, and attempted to discredit Shango's political commentary.  Wasn't Arubagirl heavily invested in the island's political scene and upcoming election?

Earlier today a poster claiming to be an ex of Joran was posting on this site. Dan got her phone number and called her to see if she was on the up and up. Her name is Melody, and Dan said she was for real.

Her posts seemed to me to be legit, and after Dan confirmed, it was good by me. Lot's of other folks remained unsure and began insinuating Dan wasn't being either open minded or honest.

Anyway, name calling ensued and I think Dan got fed up.

Frankly the name calling and stereotyping is childish to me as well.

That's what I think happened to Dan and the weblog.

Posted by: VASteve | Thursday, August 11, 2005 at 07:51 PM


I do not find any posts anywhere around that time of hers.  My suspicion is they have been scrubbed.

Yep, Dan's entire thread Natalee Holloway Discussion 116 was deleted.  That's where the big discussion was.

I think Melody's posts were by Joran's ex-girlfriend.  Tyler, you and I discussed that Dan was most likely bought and paid for last fall.

Klaas, that is what I think too.  I looked because several are out of order, but I could not find 116 and I believe that is where it was.  Dan scrubbed it to protect the Sporter, because he was outed by a poster from Miami, who said he could provide information that Dan was being paid off and that poster was banned.

Melody was younger than her chronological age indicates and seems not very bright.  Perhaps they attempted to use her as a tool, as indicated by the one televised interview she did, but Melody was just not bright enough to lie convincingly to the media and the public.  She could only talk to her relationship with Joran, and then only part of it.  I think she was told to be quiet when it was percieved that she was not a good puppet.

English teachers make spelling errors, but we call them typos!

I think she was one of the StefLoco group.  I think she was promised a pie in the sky by Ernesto if she would go along.  She stated in one of her posts that Joran knew a "short cut" from her house which is near the Marriott to his house, when somone was discussing how he could walk it in such a short period of time without shoes.  I think out of fear some of us would think Melody involved, Dan was told to remove the whole thread because it did not fit with their agenda, whoever they were and I know who two of them were.

I always thought Blacklabel was the Judge Smid.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Yep. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

AzLady, I have story, not dissimilar to something Terry might tell.

When we were in fifth grade, our English teacher was explaining contractions and specifically pronoun contractions.  She stated that in her book it stated has could be used as part of a pronoun contraction but she could never think of one single instance in which that was the case.

I popped up and said, "It's been raining all day."

Teacher said.  "No, it's cold and dry outside.

Then suddenly her face turned red.  She got it.  I knew that day I was destined to major in English. :lol:  :lol:

It does seem likely she operated with the Loco Stef crowd.  By the way, I think young Valentijn is in the US now visiting a 15 year old girl in her home, just as bro used to do.  Shameful, in my opinion.  

Do ya think Dr. Phil might have been on track there, with looking for a kidnap victim?  Hmm...everything has been very quiet on that front for a very long time.  I would not discount the idea of Joran kidnapping Natalee, three to five of them gang raping her, hurting her to the point of spilling blood, and then attempting to sell her to kidnappers.  Maybe this was the original plan that went bad after Joran's temper "damaged the goods" to the point that the sale could not be accomplished.   Maybe Paulus had some serious explaining to do in Miami when he couldn't produce the kidnapped blonde but instead a blonde was missing and presumed dead with blood in the Kalpoe car.  Bad Joran.

Tito is a Frenchman.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Did Paulus receive an automatic transmission at the bank, and he was checking on his funds to amke sure, and then the goods are damaged or dead and Paulus has to answer to someone in Florida.  Florida is mad but they are not going to pursue Paulus, only help him, because Freddy and Ernesto are involved.

Upon looking at the language choice and the phrasing, Simian is a male.  He's also an easily frustrated male.  Tito fits the bill, from my past observations.

 :lol: I was reading your comment and before I realized you had quoted yourself, I was thinking - boy - who would have picked up on that spelling error!!!!(They sure are being picky!) But I realized you quoted yourself!! :lol:  

Thanks for your ideas on the case - I have been reading and you have given me alot of food for thought.

BINGO!  Paulus checked his ATM balance to see if funds were transferred into it.  He may have made a minor withdrawal while there, but the point of going to the ATM at 4 am was to see if a deposit had been made.  A payment for services rendered--the kidnapping of a blonde girl.  Most likely Paulus had to send the cash back--too bad.   Yes, they will most likely give him another chance at earning his keep with Freddy and Ernesto as contacts.

GREAT POST.  Seedyrum was onto Julia Renfro very early on.



http://www.crimenews2000.com/cgi-bin/wwwthread/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=cold&Number=187921&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5∂=all
all of the following information from the above site

we read that that van der sloot was/is a student at the international school in aruba. yesterday the site was up, today's it's blocked. also there is a professor at the school named anita van der sloot - hugen.

typically dutch women keep their maiden names but do it just the opposity way from the us with the maiden name second. given the length of experience of this teacher as shown on her resume, i'm wondering if she's his mother....

The Dutch suspect, Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot, a student at Aruba International School,father is a prominent official in the Aruban justice system studying to be a judge.

a local (to aruba) blogger is saying that there will be a news conference this am and that the rumor circulating on the island is that blood was found in the silver honda which belonged to van der sloot. also that her parents gave blood samples at the local hospital yesterday (the part about her parents was in the local press this am)

Aruban Minister of Justice Edward Croes told FOX News Natalee Holloway, who was on vacation with friends as a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities know the location of her body.

Even though Joran said, in his tickle.com profile, that he was looking for "friends/physical/fling," his friend Arina still didn't like me calling him a "dog

Hmph.

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside

I'm sure you all must have seen Geraldo's 10 pm show with the parents (think it was last night). They have really lost patience and only learned about the blood in the car from Geraldo, not from the authorities. Natalee's mom said a couple of days ago, the police said this: "We don't feel so strongly as we did that your daughter might be alive."

Coco, I am puzzled by that request of the FBI to the parents not to talk to anyone any longer, as well. The only things that come to mind: (1) the FBI has told the parents that in order to let the FBI continue to help, the parents have to be more low-key or the Arubans will get even more secretive and/or (2) the FBI has extracted a promise from the Aruban authorities that the parents will be informed first before anything is released to the media, IF the parents agree to keep quiet. Just guesses.

Ny Teacher, I was trying to find a way to say that very same thing, and failed. I've been thinking of just this scenario. It still leaves the question of him - how did he get home without being spotted - and how did he dispose of the body, but I can let my imagination roam and say at this point, the two security guards got involved and helped him do a coverup. You can see I have a pretty active imagination, but this case is puzzling.

The best damn thing that I can comment on this is the fact that the mother has the fortitude to stay there and insist that she isn't leaving without knowing exactly what happened, and voicing her view that the guards were likely set up as patsies. How far will the Aruban government go to protect the reputation of a single, upper-class family vs. preserving the entire colony's (it is a colony, right?) economic welfare? Folks know that crime is handled differently in different parts of the world and that caste systems allow those in the upper classes to operate above "the law," but wow, if this isn't helping some folks decide where and where NOT to spend their discretionary income.

Slim: Persons violating Aruba laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested or imprisoned. Penalties for possession, use, or trafficking in illegal drugs in Aruba are severe, and convicted offenders can expect long jail sentences and heavy fines.

With all due respect, Slim, just because the government paints this as some island paradise doesn't make it so. Heck, look at Mexico. Sure they'll lock YOUR butt up if they catch you with drugs, but look how much gets through to the US. It's really not that hard for the Columbian (or other) mafia to grease a few well placed palms so they'll look the other way.

saw a spokesman for Aruba's government, Ruben Trapenberg, on the Today show this morning. He was asked something like, "wouldn't the security cameras outside the Holliday Inn show whether or not that the 3 guys were ever there that night?" Trapenberg responded something like "there are no cameras outside the hotel only inside in the lobby"

I thought I heard about a TV show last week when they interviewed the Holliday Inn employees (can't remember what the show was) One employee said there were security cameras outside the hotel but they were NOT working? And then another employee later said the cameras outside were working?

Does anyone know any info about where they had security cameras at the Holliday Inn? Would the Aruban government try to get rid of proof that the security gaurds had nothing to do with it and Natalee never arrived back at the hotel?

Interesing point on Google. If you do a search under Natalee Holloway you get different stories. If you search Natalee Ann Holloway, something else pops up. Other stories.


So what happened yesterday with the condoms, panties, and duct tape found that turned out to be nothing? Do you think there was a wise guy prankster, maybe some teens who put that stuff there knowing it would cause a news frenzy?


Charles Rafini, the Aruban teen who says he found the underwear and condoms in the brush, as well as duct tape and a string cut from a bikini or halter top, at a location commonly known to locals as a make-out spot, described the underwear he found as pink with flowers on them. He told FOX News on Wednesday that the location of the findings "is not too far" from the Marriott hotel.

Arubans have displayed an eagerness to dispel the shadow cast over their home and help out with the investigation. Reporters from Aruban radio station Top 95 launched their own search before police arrived at the Marriott, and said they found a pair of torn pink-and-white polka dot panties and three condoms, two of them used.

btw, do you guys believe the story about the brothers dropping van der sloot off ten blocks up at the marriott? i do, but then the skeptical part of me started to wonder about what a skinny indian dude stuck in prison with a bigger dude might blurt out to just save his ass.


Torn panties, cut halter top sraps, duct tape... this is not a "make out" spot. It is a RAPE LOT, where the locals take their tourist ladys after a few bad ice cubes.


Read the "Julie Renfro, Editor of Aruba Today, on Fox’s O’Reilly Factor", June 15, blog on Scared Monkeys Scared Monkeys


the only thing about julie renfro's letter that makes no sense to me is she says he drives a honda, yet we know they towed two other cars from the family home today (neither of which was a honda) so a civil servant has three cars (one for his as yet unable to legally drive son)

who does that honda really belong to? does it make sense that the kalpoe brothers were driving joran's car and dropped him off at the beach and then drove HIS car home? how did he get back home? anyway, this latest article seems to clarify a few details of what's happened til now

If the 2 brothers did drop the Dutch guy and Natalee off somewhere, then wouldn’t the 2 brothers have known they were in the clear since day one? What would be their motivation to ever go along with the fake story about all 4 of them going back to the hotel to drop off Nat? It makes me feel that the answer to Nat’s disappearance will implicate all 3 of them in wrongdoing. Maybe Nat died of a drug while with the Dutch guy but the 2 brothers supplied the drug. I can’t see the 2 innocent people getting them selves this far involved in a false story before changing their mind and saying they went home and the Dutch guy and Nat left together.

Karin Janssen recuse yourself
People with nothing to hide hide nothing


Posted by: seedyrum | Tuesday, August 09, 2005 at 12:48 AM

Just an observation:

All of my neighbors teens sleep over each other's houses all the time.  None of them would consider sleeping or staying at one of their friends houses if the friend WAS NOT GOING TO BE THERE BUT AT A FAMILY REUNION/PARTY ALL NIGHT.

Maybe Freddy told Anita about Nat's panties?  Joran could have bragged to him yea - I had sex with her and Freddy said - I don't believe you, and Joran says well she had  Whatever color panties with whatever type embroidery on them. Freddy quizzes by Anita after being questioned by the cops.  Freddy changes story to no sex, nice girl.

Maybe?

Thanks, Kimmy.  I would never correct anyone else's typos, as I make them myself, all too often!!   :lol:   My intent is to share my thoughtful ramblings about this case and hopefully it will give others "food for thought."  I don't have any inside information or contacts--just my own logic, and the ideas I pick up in research and conversation here.  However, there are others who have information I don't know, and when we share what we know and what we've logically deduced, we can solve mysteries that one person alone might not be able to resolve.  It's all to find Natalee and help Beth and Dave bring her home.

Mermaid, Freddy is the one who has the alibi of being at a family reunion party, but was said by Melody to have spent the night at Joran's instead.  Melody most likely said this not realizing that she was not supposed to say that, and Freddy's alibi was that he was at a family reunion party.  Melody's first mistake.  I think Joran and Freddy and the Kalpoes could have all told Anita about Natalee's panties because they all had sex with her.  I do not buy Freddy's alibi of the family reunion.  He was at Joran's place, but the police and others believe his family reunion alibi as his family is in a position to be believed.  If you know what I mean.

,
Klaas,
The posts on that link only go back to July 16.  I checked July 16 thru Aug 27 and nothing so I suspect you are correct that the threads were scrubbed prior to archiving.  That is why some are poste out of order and of course there at at least two completely missing.

Am looking throuigh some I saved, howeve, earlier than those.

.

LALA'S MOM

Read the post 7/5 at 2:24 p.m. in which the question about the Honda is asked.  press ctrl + F and enter Honda, and read from the first entry of Honda, through to the end.

Yeah, but any transactions made after bank hours wouldn't be shown on the account until the next business day...

Let's suppose that Ruben & Tito are Simian and Shango.  Let's suppose Ruben is upset with Simian and vise versa, because Ruben is being transported to the airport to hand out fliers or copies of Aruba Today, whatever.  Who is the Frenchman?  Tito Lacle.  It does not get much more French than that.

Not necessarily under their banking system.  They have no checks and balances.  They are not regulated.

Hi everybody.  I check in every once in a while, but have not posted in quite a while.

If you're looking into Shango and Simian's identity... If I remember correctly, I think Simian stated that he took a tour of the KIA prison when it opened.  It was part of a class trip.  I think he also stated which school he went to.  I can't remember the exact words, but from the info given and the date that the KIA prison opened, I figured that Simian was in his (her?) early 30's.  I might have the post copied somewhere, but it might take me a while to find it.

Good to see you here, Chicago.  

Is that why they were threatening each other with peanut butter and dried bread, with 8 days in the hole. :lol:

Natalee Was Kidnapped

Tylergal writes:  "...and that might have been where she was at when she made that 3 am call that let Beth know WITHOUT A DOUBT Natalee was kidnapped, or at least not with people she wanted to be with. A Twitty family friend tells me that “I don’t know these people” was the code Beth had with her kids just in case. So while Beth might not know if Natalee is still alive, she KNOWS Natalee was kidnapped that night..."

This explains the strong words of Spencer Bachus during that press conference, and further underscores why he demanded the immediate and "heavy" involvement of the FBI.  The first posters HT Family hung on the island said "KIDNAPPED".

I presume above to be true: all families in USA have coding systems designed to transfer information secretly during dire circumstances, with passwords/phrases known to only trusted few, and the children.

This is another reason for outrage re: this case: the three are obviously guilty of the crime of KIDNAPPING / ABDUCTION.  They should be arrested immediately and charged.  That Aruban authorities avoided this charge, despite likely knowing the critical information above is beyond travesty: IT IS PROOF OF INCOMPETENCE, and it is PROOF OF A COVER UP.

This information should be highlighted in news reports and made subject of front page post here at SM, imo.

Where is Gerben and mchrme to tell me now how the 3:00am call was "inconclusive?"  

WHERE'S THE KIDNAPPING CHARGES ?!?

So Aruba says they have no problem, yet we read in the news they do.. IBM says that they will support OS/2 and not leave the Boca Area but a few months later they move to Austin, Texas;  Eastern Airlines says they would never declare bankruptcy but the next morning they did.  President Clinton says that he never had sex with that girl, yet a spot on the dress proved him wrong..  I guess they really do believe that the timeshares and hotels rooms are full.. I think not...  When someone tells you to trust them or that everything is fine, then you need to worry and if I was Aruba I would be very worried..

Absolutely, Hammer.  We have had to transfer money to our kids when they were in college.  They knew where to go to get it and what the code was.  It was set up with banks in two areas, but with a truck stop in one area.  The funds could not exceed the amount we set.  Money was instant.  A 3% fee was deducted for covering it.

KJ will not charge JK2 with kidnapping because she could win.  She doesn't want to win, IMO.

Strong possibility we have a kidnapping gone very wrong.  Was the something that went wrong the kidnapping and delivery of the victim?  Being a perverted egomaniacal sociopath, was is not enough for Joran to kidnap and deliver the girl, but did he have to rape her and invite his friends to rape her, also?  Did she resist them enough that they violently subdued her and then realized they had killed her?  Geez, how do they deliver a dead blonde when the contract was for a live girl?

Doesn't that describe Arubagirl?

I always think back on the "purple body" as posted by one of the Arubans on RWV and then the picture of the blond girl in the bathtub bleeding, where the twins are leaning over it and saying "NataleeH."  

That was the point at which I felt I coud no longer abide even the name "Joran."

Yes, I believe that is why kidnaping is off the radar:  It can be proven.  KJ just wants to take her retirement and run to the Hague where she can become a "little spoke in a big wheel."

Paulus' banking activity records would tell the story.    I assume that the Aruban Prosecutor already has these.  Has she shared them with JQK?  I assume JQK can subpeona these if the court case goes forward.

They are probably in that drawer with the arm bone, the dog bone, the donkey skull, the fabric, the duct tape, "blood turned chocolate" and on and on and on and on.

I definitely believe a woman is one of these posters.

We really need this case closed by Aruba so the FBI can open their own investigation.  Let's face it, they've destroyed all the evidence they could a long time ago.  Anything remaining is getting older and older.  The longer it takes for the FBI to open an investigation, the harder it will be to uncover anything.  However, they are very good at "interviewing" suspects.

Joran got home at WHAT time:

Bill O'Reilly
Back of Book Segment
More details from Aruba

Guest: Reporter Dilma Arends
Aruba investigative reporter Dilma Arends elaborated on the Natalee Holloway investigation, implying that Aruba authorities may have a stronger case than many people realize. "Aruba authorities have been using cell sites and the cell phone batteries to determine the movement of the boys involved. For example, they were able to determine that Joren Van Der Sloot got home at 4 AM. So I think they have more proof than they are telling us." The Factor asserted that Arends' claims will provide comfort to Natalee's family. "What you just told us makes a difference to the Holloway family because it gives them some hope. There should be a way for the government to get more information to the family that is not going to damage the case."

http://www.billoreilly.com/show?action=viewTVShow&showID=363
_________________
~did i do something wrong again zoo geeper?~
My email is in my profile
COOKBOOK PRE-ORDERS NOW AVAILABLE
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/cookbook.php

I would believe either Arubagirl or Tito as Simian.  Both fit the description, in my opinion.

There are members of ALE and the Prosecutor's office who know exactly what happened, down to the minute.  I believe this.  It's only common sense.  Look at how much we know, and we don't even have their resources or access to them.  Thus, we are back to the COVER-UP. Who?  Why?  How?  

When will Interpol become involved?

.

bleachedblack wrote:
No Rob just that I don't think it is new news that it has seemed pretty apparent from early on that PVDS was involved with something bigger when you have the rumored credit for gambling etc. I think he is probably into drugs, money laundering, etc. Even if they don't take him down, they would monitor him to see who else is involved. Chavez is being worked on by CIA
Quote:
The US is concerned about credible reports that some members of the Aruban government met regularly with individuals associated with drug trafficking and money laundering syndicates. In spite of, or perhaps because of, the denials by Aruba officials, the US remains convinced that entrenched money laundering organizations direct large cash deposits into land development and other construction projects on the island. (3) The Netherlands is equally worried. ""I think we are going to loose it on Aruba"," Arthur Docters van Leeuwen, the Dutch Attorney General, said about the counter-narcotics efforts on the island. Aruba is in the hands of some powerful families and Holland can't do anything about it, due to constitutional restraints. (4)

Posted by Dan in Natalee Holloway | Permalink | Comments (34) | TrackBack  
 


well that certainly explains alot.

That quote comes from here:
http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm


this would tie into the previous owners of the occidental when it was the allegro...it was a washing machine...
_________________

I need to get some things done today, Monkey friends.  I'll try to come back tonight.  Keep the faith.  Investigating the COVER-UP is the only way to find the truth.

That is my feeling - she WAS kidnapped - then "something bad happened" - remember the 3's remark that she fell and hit her head?  Why come up with that detail if something like that didn't happen?  They were preparing for the possibility that she would be found with a wound to the head, and they would have already explained that away.


I think Joran acts awfully cocky to be someone who has double crossed the mob.  He doesn't act like one who has to constantly watch his back.  Perhaps he is that Pschyco(sp?) Then again, who knows?

But what are the chances Joran had daddy's bank Card and made withdrawls

Kidnapping --

Is, in and of itself, a capital crime, a class 2 felony.  

The post which Tylergal provided delivers wideranging theory on "kidnapping" for purposes of human trafficking and other related aspects of case...

But, that is not the point re: my post citing same.

As above, Kidnapping is a crime.  Abduction is a crime.  The standard of asportation is achieved in this case w/ affadavits signed by BHT stating call is her daughter, and that code as described is true.

Natalee was kidnapped / abducted.  Period.

All of the other charges, the rape, the premediatated drugging, the heavy battery, the murder, the permeditated murder -- can all wait.

They are guilty of KIDNAPPING / ABDUCTION.  And it is indisputable.  Jk2 should be charged and prosecuted accordingly.  The rest will come out in due time.

From things I have saved:

>
I'm here in Aruba and yes they say that she is dead, one of them admit it.

Posted by: betje | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 12:55 AM

I'm listen to the local radio and they sad that the body is add the canashito river here in Aruba.

Posted by: betje | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 01:01 AM

There is an AP article on Yahoo.com news that was posted around 1:07AM that states on of the one of the 3 arrested confessed.

Posted by: NM | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 01:10 AM

Canashito isn't a river.

Posted by: Arubano | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 11:39 AM <


So what is this Canashito?  LOL, don't tell me it is what it sounds like phonetically, either.   :lol:

.

Does anyone remember who verified Tito's identity when he was posting here?  It wasn't Arubagirl.  But it was a girl from Aruba.  And I'm pretty sure it's one of the girls who has been in pictures with Joran.  She gave Tito hints in Papiamento.  I think she was dating Tito's nephew or something.  Or Tito knew her boyfriend.  She gave her initials, and talked about her dog.  I think her real name was Maria.  We found her myspace account, and there's a picture of her with a caption, "Que pasa dia da Orishas".  Shango talked about Orisha.  At first I thought it was a question, "What happened on the day of the Orishas".  But then I figured out it was an art exhibit at a restaurant/art gallery called "Que Pasa".  The exhibit was called dia da Orishas.  (I might be spelling that incorrectly)

I don't think we talked about her real name on SM, but I emailed back and forth with some people who posted here.  You might want to go back to the posts that Tito made here and see who knew him.  It might help piece things together.

.Off topic of kidnapping but interesting none the same:



http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/10/natalee_hollowa_15.html
====================
Dear Dan

I noticed in these blogs alot of people talking bad about my father Jossy Mansur. to begin with, i don't know who you are, and i don't care who you are. Your famous research about my family may have some things right but alot of bs. Yes two of my cousins were extradited to puerto rico but were never judged. This was all internal politics by the mep government. Then i read about the gardner being my employee? (never knew the guy until we investigated the rumor about the domino game in the jail with a kalpoe where a relative of ours is doing time for shooting a fire arm. a nephew a cousins son.. (are we responsible for his actions?) Then i read about my father not being able to go to the United States that we love and respect soo much. Well this is about a personal problem and descrimination with a U.S. Immigration official here in aruba by the last name of Tissdale. And she did all this fake accusations on my father. Contact me and i will explain to you.. Do you have any proof that my father or his sons are or have ever done anything illegal? Please show them. If not don't slander my father.

All we are tryning to do is to help, we have worked very hard on this case and it has nothing to do with revenge or vendetta etc. We just care. We are using our own resources to help on this case and want nothing in return much less a reward. Didn't your research show you how many long hours we worked on this case? Did it show you how many times we defend the United Stated through out the years in everything you do?. Did you know that we love america and americans here in Aruba and abroad?

If you knew my father you would realize what kind of person he is, he never even got a traffic violation ticket in his life. Much less all the things you said he is involved in. We wish we were as rich as you make people think we are.

But them again you have freedom of speech and you can say what you want.

I have been searching for natalee since june 3rd and do you know i have not seen my wife and kids since then?they are in south america going to school. no one has put more hours in this case than i. I searched all of aruba by foot mostly. I searched all the wells and mineshafts, i was at the land fill searching and diggin for 13 days mostly by myself, you would not stand it for 1 hour. and now i am searching the ocean, ON our own resources and want nothing in return.

By the way do you know my father is in the U.S.?anyway i could go on but i felt bad reading these things about my father and that is why i wrote this. we will keep working on this, God knows how much longer, but we want to get the persons responsible for this punished, because they deserve to be punished and not the entire Island. Arubans are good people and here we are in trouble because of 3 foreigners and a substitude judge who so far seems to be avove the law.

All of us Jossy's sons went to Military school and college in the United states.

Semper Fi.

Eduardo Mansur

Posted by: EDUARDO | Oct 27, 2005 10:48:58 PM
=======================
I wonder what he may have come up with?

I wonder what about the actual employment status of the gardener was? Who first linked him to the Mansur's?

Does Eduardo continue the search?

Posted by: ~ iwabwu ~ ~ ~ | Nov 25, 2005 10:37:14 PM

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/3663/page1.htm

(snipped)
The pre ceramic period
 
This period was noticeable by the fact that there was no remains of  pottery, as these Indians did not make any pottery work. Typically a lot of sea shells and oysters where found in these sites. Most of them are near the coast except for one or two, which were more inland, maybe used as a cemeteries (Canashito)

AZLady wrote:

Whoa AZ!  I know I'm coming into this discussion late but what has brought up the kidnapping deliver to sex ring scenario?  Do we have any proof the pimps ever actually did this before?  I know there has always been the assumption based on statements that they would get a tourist on their last night on the island because they would leave the next day and there would be no problems.

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/AA/0/Canashito.html

Canashito, Aruba:  It's a city

http://www.popularcities.com/cityguides/12113.htm
Caves of Canashito South of Hooiberg Tours available. Inquire at your hotel. Guides can point out drawings on the walls and ceiling of these unusual caves. There are giant green parakeets in the area as well.

Native Lingo vetted Tito ... she knew him and his family ....

Exactly.  If she goes for a charge it will be for murder.  She cannot prove there was a murder.  Case closed.

Enter what Refugees want so badly:  Bacchus.  Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.  Bacchus will have FBI in tow.

Sounds like a good name for the sporter:  Canashito.

San wrote:

Realistically, she can't prove kidnapping either.  You've got witnesses from her own group that will testify she left with them willingly.  They even had a conversation with her.

With her not around to testify, there is no charge.

Oh, chit.  Oil closed at more than 75. Gas could go much higher.  Little KimIl chummy with Iran and Chavez.  Three dictators closing ranks.

Let's hypothesize.  Suppose Paulus was hire to deliver a girl and his conversation at the HI was an effort to grab Natalee or one of her friends.  Suppose that fell flat.  Suppose he resorted to "Corky" and his friends to grab her, not realizing what abject failures they would be.  Paulus makes the call that the "package is on the way."  Money is transferred electronically and then all chit breaks loose because the sporter has spoiled the goods.  Paulus has to answer to some big crooks in Florida.  All these TV interviews are set up by the goon squad in order to neutralize the bad publicity but goons and their squad such as JR, CC and SC do not realize that denigrating an American girl who is "the girl next door" is not the way to neutralize it.  All has gone south from that point on.  Anita jumps in to try to absolve it and things go from bad to worse.

Tito used to post here as IamTito. He was not very articulate. English seemed to be his second language. In the quote you cite, the writer uses the word complementary correctly. That indicates that the writer is well grounded in English. Not Tito.

Also, in the cited quote, Simian says he doesn't repeat himself. Again, that's not Tito. He goes on and on and never gets to the point.

Just an observation.

Well, I could post here as "I am Tito."  That does not mean that I would be nor does it mean that Tito might not have dual personality and conceal his ability to speak English well.  Why would he apply for a job with Fox if he could not actually speak English better than what we have heard?  Compris?

Exactly and does not fit with the arubagirl's age, IMO...

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 11:41 am
To whoever made comment: I have taken a tour of the facility and even spent a night in there when it was inaugurated. So have everybody in my gradutating class at Colegio Arubano who wanted to participate.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/21/beth-twitty-and-the-van-der-sloots-meet/#comment-20448

 
Aruba Prison (KIA), Santo di Patia
In addition, the delegation visited the former Dakota Prison, located in Oranjestad, which was taken out of service in September 1990, date of opening of the KIA. This former prison was still used, from time to time, by the police to accommodate persons detained under the Aliens legislation.
http://www.cpt.coe.int/documents/nld/1996-27-inf-eng-1.htm

[/i]

Let me also state, I can write French as well as most, but I do not speak it very well. :wink:

Hi Anna,
I had to sound it out in my head.  Too funny.  Sounds aruban for aruba :o !!

PS you captured my 1st ever post on any discussion board.  That was a horrible/terrible night. The 1st of so many....

Belated Happy Independence Day to my beloved Monkeys!!

Well, Tito used to post here right after his Fox interviews and the board was pretty convinced it was really Tito.

If he could speak better English, the time to do it would be during a Fox prime-time interview. I can't imagine that he wouldn't be doing his very best. Surely that's not part of a conspiracy.

How about the phone call "I don't know these people".

Did we hear that was code speak for "I have been kidnapped" between Natalee and her family.

,
MISGIVINGS,
Have been worried about you.  I am relieved to see you posting!  Hope things are better for you now.

.

Hey Klaas,
The k2 live near Hooiberg.

Isn't that near the location of the "Haystacks," which my grandson used to dream about was the place they took her.

Remember when Aruba Girl would chew me out for mentioning Giliam van der Straaten?  She said that no such person existed and that all VDStrattens children were at least thirty years old.   And all of you would scold me to be nice to our aruban
posters as they were trying to help us, etc.   :roll:

Well, then who is this:

http://connect.tickle.com/profile/index.html?id=29Zszi8OytzHQPXk

It says Giliam van der Stratten and he is aged twenty.  Now I know somebody could have made this site and it does not prove he exists but there is at least one friend and links to a high school on her site.

Interesting last name he has, at least to me.  I still think he exists and have to wonder if he is also a PIMP.

.

FOR TERRY.

I know you are always having strange critters around and I thought about you when I read this.

I woke up one morning to find a bear on my roof so I looked in the yellow pages and sure enough, there's an add for "Bear Removers." I called the number, and the bear remover says he'll be over in 30 minutes. The bear remover arrives, and gets out of his van. He's got a ladder, a baseball bat, a 50/90 Sharps rifle and a mean old pit bull.

"What are you going to do?" I asked him.

 "I'm going to put this ladder up against the roof, and then I'm going to go up there and knock the bear off the roof with this baseball bat. When the bear falls off the roof, the pit bull is trained to grab his testicles and not let go. The bear will then be subdued enough for me to put him in the cage in  
He then hands the gun to the homeowner.
 
Homeowner asks, "What do you want me to do with this?
 
 He answers, "If the bear knocks me off the roof, shoot the dog!"

Oh, I think he does exist and I think we found him in some pictures later.  At first,  I think we thought Koen was GvdS, but later we found pictures of him.  Nadira told us already:  Big people lie.  I saw Aruba Girl's picture and I know she is a big people.

Hi NM and Misgivings.  Good to see you.

Tylergal - working on a map of Canashito

ABDUCTION

Houdini writes: "...Realistically, she can't prove kidnapping either. You've got witnesses from her own group that will testify she left with them willingly. They even had a conversation with her. With her not around to testify, there is no charge..."

No, Houdini.  Not at all.

Enter the crime "Abduction by Deception".  Standard for charge IN NO WAY requires that victim enters ring of danger, willingly (or not).  You need only to think of the obvious example of the cases re: child predators who lure unwitting children into cars w/ promises of candy treats.  They enter vehicles "willingly" -- (deception).

The important piece re: classmate's testimony (Alana) is that Natalee -- outside of C&C's -- says she will be returning to the holiday inn.  That is the key to understanding her intent: Natalee thinks she's going to her hotel.

With the proof of call told and full meaning revealed, you hit standard for "false imprisonment" -- she was held against her will (whether she intended to go back to hotel or not).  That Natalee clearly was moved vehicularly, you hit standard for "asportation."

These represent minimum standards for successfully charging and prosecuting jk2 for kidnapping / abduction.

I am giggling every time I read Canashito.

It is funny.

 Nickname for the sporter. :lol:

Hammer is absolutely correct.  If kidnaping was limited by whether or not a person went willingly, then hardly any kidnaping/rape/murder could be solved/resolved because most kidnapers entice their vicitims by deceiving them about their intent.

For the record, I didn't scold you, Anna.  :lol:

Someone by that name does exist and Curacao is close, huh?

Curacaos kampioenschap sunfish 2001

 
Orkaan Chantal liet niet na diverse sunfish zeilers af te schrikken om deel te nemen aan dit jaarlijkse kampioenschap. Als hun absentie veroorzaakt was door de verwachting dat het wel windstil zou worden hadden ze het mis, het woei buitengewoon stevig waarbij ook zeer ervaren rotten niet gevrijwaard werden van een stukje zwemmen achter een wegdrijvende omgeslagen sunfish. Bij de start van de eerste race op zaterdag was de gedoodverfde favoriet Cor van Aanholt nog reparaties aan het uitvoeren. De 6 minuten die hij later startte maakte hij niet meer goed zodat een magere 8e plaats zijn plek werd. Aan kop vochten Niek Kort en Alex Roose het uit. Laatsgenoemde leek een veilige voorsprong te hebben maar had de pech te moeten gijpen in een windstoot van 37 knopen waardoor hij zwemmend twee boten aan zich voorbij moest laten gaan. De zondag werden eerst de altijd spectaculaire shorttrack wedsstrijden afgewerkt. Alex Roose had een vliegende start en kon tot verbazing van iedereen die voorsprong vasthouden voor de heftig aanvallende Cor van Aanholt. De tweed shortrack liet een vertrouwder beeld zien met Cor van meet af aan de leiding die hij slechts halverwege het eerste kruisrak tijdelijk even afstond. Spannender was de strijd om de 4 plaatsen daarachter: Voortdurend werd stuivertje gewisseld maar bij de finish bleef Peter Goote met een fantastische laatste stuurboord klap de concurentie voor.

Ook de lange baan s'middags was weer een waar gevecht tegen de schuimkoppen en dreigende valse gijpen met een min of meer verwachtte uitslag. De strijd in de B-klasse lijkt een prooi te gaan worden voor Giliam van der Straaten die tot nu toe alles won. De Jeugdklasse zag het met uitzondering van de dappere 40 kgr wegende Ron Bouman niet zitten zodat deze zeer talentvolle jonge sunfish zeiler aan de B-klasse is toegevoegd. In het weekend van 25 en 26 augustus worden de wedstrijden vervolgd.
<snipped>
http://www.sunfishclass.org/results/2001/2001curacao_championship.htm

,
FOX News, 10-1-05 Geraldo Saturday

SunMoonStars wrote:

Geraldo Sat night Oct 1

You know Geraldo, he is lying there again.
He is saying he never had sex with her, and yes he did.
In the statements, he specifically states that he had sex with my daughter at his home while she is coming in and out of consciousness.
He also admits the sexual assaults against Natalee as she is coming in and out of consciousness.
That is just simply not true. (that he didn't have sex with her)

Geraldo:
And your reaction is that he has not been charged with rape?

Beth:
I am outraged, I can't imagine that rape is not a crime within Dutch law. It has to be.

Geraldo:
He suggests in this next bite that Natalee was a loose woman, and if Joran didn't step up to the plate, it would have been some other guy at the bar.

Geraldo:
The police statements you have read, he took her back to his home. So, this sex while she is in and out of consciousness happened at his home, not the beach.

Beth:
Yes, Joran gives a statement to the police that he had sex with my daughter at his home.

Geraldo:
Is this a baloney story about the beach?

Beth:
You know Geraldo, I don't know. All we can think is maybe after they had this gang rape against my daughter at his home, then maybe they did leave her at the beach.
We don't know where they last left Natalee.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=236449#236449

San wrote:

No definitive way to prove that call was from Natalee.

That last sentece from Beth is so very sad. :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

.
No, vms, you didn't scold me but some did.  I have those posts, too.   8)

But anyway, there is also a Hans van der Straaten in that article.  Maybe  old Jan is not so foolish after all and got his own kids off that sleazy place.

If course, they could be of no relationship whatsoever but why did we hear that name so early on as a friend of Joran's?  It is not as though we knew to make it up.

Will keep an eye out for more on this person as well.  Thanks for the article.

.

I have a lot of catching up to do....but just saying hello and seeing if I'm all dressed up.... :)

Canashitos Sushii Bar ...............

 8)

There are so many wonderful ways to know or not know that nowadays.  Voice recognition is taking over the industry of dictation.  It is amazing how things can be proven. :wink:

Canashito Caves:

I'm listen to the local radio and they sad that the body is add the canashito river here in Aruba.

Posted by: betje | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 01:01 AM

There is an AP article on Yahoo.com news that was posted around 1:07AM that states on of the one of the 3 arrested confessed.

Posted by: NM | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 01:10 AM

Canashito isn't a river.

Posted by: Arubano | Saturday, June 11, 2005 at 11:39 AM <


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/canashito4.jpg)

Thanks a bunch, Klaas.

Tylergal wrote:

It's GOOD to have a plan.  But I would make sure the gun is loaded, and this is very important, that the HOMEOWNER can shoot it.....accurately.

Hey call me a "nagging nelly" but the best laid plans.....etc! :lol:

.

Really close to the Spanish Lagoon, too.   8)

.

Why, yes MEMERE we can see you and you look very nice all dressed up.

 :wink:

.
I have to stop and rest my eyes for a while but while I am away I am sure you will all get to the bottom of all this Canoshito business.   :lol:

.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1107

Riehl World is reporting that “according to unconfirmed sources the search for Natalee Holloway may be leading to the Canashito Caves area south of Hooiberg, which is the only mountain on the island, off the beaten track and reported known for a set of caves. ”

Aruba Girl: Nothing found at Canashito.

MAP

Report Prime Minister is saying CNN is not right. PM confirms information is for sale. Local media obviously cannot match the big media bids.

Radio Station Online: ArubaDag

Aruba Girl

According to the prime minister the fam. didn’t know this until they turned on CNN. The radio stations are also reporting that cops are heading to recover the remains. First it was lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), now it’s Canashito, the rock quarry.

Aruba Girl

Police Commisionary Dompig denies that he confirmed the news. He said to the AP that he could not confirm the news.

He told the local radio station that he could not confirm the news.

Local Female

The Sir Dompifg of police, which is named by acosiated press has denied to other local medias that this is the case And is calling asociated press to retract his name

Something Bad has happenned

#   arubagirl  Says:
June 11th, 2005 at 1:08 am e

It seems that they are going to Canashito, which is sort of a rock quarry. During the massive search (the one where the civil servants got off), they spotted suspcious activity by a white van in the area. The cops went to check it out, but found nothing.

The Big Hammer wrote:

Truth is, there is no evidence (that we are aware of) to charge them with anything.  She is just a missing person case with alot of questions not answered, damn it.   JMHO

There isn't any evidence to support a kidnapping charge.  I wish there was, but there isn't.  Statement to Alana doesn't help much because there's no way to prove Natalee didn't change her mind about going straight back to her hotel after getting in the car.  I'm not even convinced she was kidnapped, it's possible she may have willingly gotten out with Joran at the Mariott beach, expecting only a romantic stroll in the moonlight, and if Joran then raped and murdered her there he'd be guilty of those crimes but not kidnapping.

#   arubagirl  Says:
June 11th, 2005 at 2:08 am e

Empty big plastic bag found at Canashito.


#   arubagirl  Says:
June 11th, 2005 at 2:27 am e

Oh, by the way, the caves at Canashito are pretty hard to reach. If they’re searching for these in the dark, it’s very dangerous. I think I’ve heard that you can only reach the caves by rapelling, but I may be wrong about this last part.

Anna I remember some of those times.  I know many of us hated the way we were treated by those aruban posters and many (I included sometimes, as I teeted back and forth) felt we needed to do what ever trival thing they needed to have their egos stroked just incase they could help find Nat.  I know I did enjoy were put in their place.  So thank you!

The more they posted the lower my option of them.  aruba to me seems like never-neverland, they never grow up or become responsible, caring people.  IThey will scream that they care, etc, but i is always about them, who offended them, who upset them, blahblahblahblahblah

Hi Tgal!

LaLa, 1.) hi, and 2.) re: your post :
Simian Says: June 28th, 2005 at 1:52 am
The Simian says that The Simian only reports developments ahead of time. The Simian thinks was is going on is shameless. Playing with feelings.
Th Simian’s umbilical is buried close to the heart of the island. NOBODY EVER try to put us down. The Simian hates what he has been reading.
All things must pass.

Who's upset now and why? What happened to Simian that caused this rift?

I remember simian (typical to that type of poster) was upset that posters, in their anger, were writing negative things about aruba.  I'm not saying it was fair of the posters to write those things but simian could have understood their anger or ignored it to help find Nat. But I'm guessing it is b/c simian was/is such a small person.

#   arubagirl  Says:
June 11th, 2005 at 2:33 am e

Local, maybe they mean the Rooi di Canashito? Does Canashito have a rooi? A ‘rooi’ is a dry streambed that is quite common on the island.

hooiberg translates to haystack according to aruban tourist litierature

Tylergal wrote:

I would love to hear that the call had been subjected to Voice Specter Analysis and it was a confirmed match to Natalee Holloway.

Alas, even then, "I Don't Know These People" is so ambiguous it doesn't say she is being kidnapped.

Although it would have more meaning if the "code word" rumor were true.

I sure would like what they consider suspicious activity and also who "they" are - civil servants?  searchers?

Cano-shito / Cano-shinola. Remember Steve Martin in The Jerk? His daddy takes him out into the backyard to prepare him for life:


Now that you're going out into the world...  
                   
...there's something you should know.  
                   
- You see that?

- Yeah.
                   
That's shit.  
                   
And this is Shinola.  
                   
Shit.  
                   
Shinola.  
                   
Son, you're gonna be all right.

NM, very early on before there was anything but a front page, one of the Aruban posters had posted at some sites that I found.  I had seen these posts and only mentioned it to one person.  Interestingly that Aruban poster opened up her evening by saying someone had been posting using her/his name.  No one was using that person's name but that person who said that.  He/she was trying to circumvent anyone finding the nasty things she was saying about the family on Trip Advisor. So suffice it to say,  I for one was onto this person right away, but said nothing, just watched until the time came I could contain myself no longer, about September.

Tylergal wrote:

Who was it Tylergal?

For that matter, it's not even confirmed that there was any call where anyone said "I don't know these people".  That phrase could just be rumor.  There was a message left on the voice mail of William Morris, one of Natalee's best friends, and various sources have said Charles Croes told them it consisted of about a minute of driving sounds followed by a male voice saying "Are you calling home" and then nothing.  Allegedly this call was also verified by Croes not to have come from a phone rented to Natalee.

Do we know If a phone was rented to Natalee?  I was under the impression that she didn't have a phone with her of any kind.

Shizaru wrote:

There in lies the "rub", eh Shizaru.  You can't believe ANYTHING said by someone from Aruba.

But as much as we all want someone charged with a crime, there simply is not enough evidence (that we know of) to charge anyone with anything.

Hell, if they didn't charge Joran or the Kalpoe's with making false statements, they're not going to charge them with anything.   JMHO

The bold is mine...so sorry... :oops:

Hey all!  Back from lunch...

What's going on in here?  Anything interesting?

Hi MeMere My bud!

I am making chili in my crock pot some for dinner and some for my neighbor across the street who just lost his Mother.  He loves my Chili I will take him a big tupperware and a sympathy card.

We are very casual bout that kinda thing around here!

Hey Memere,
I believe the "family reunion" was in FL.

Tgal,
I won't forget, and I wait for the time that I/we can, in kind, return the courtesies to those people.

Chili, huh?  I actually make a pretty good Chili myself.  What kind are you making Mrs Mermaid?  

Oh, where are my manners...how are you today?  Have a good 4th of July weekend?  :)

How did he get to FLorida?  Wouldn't there be documentation?

Hey 3rd,
Saw Fantastic Burritto (Fantasia ?sp) sing Purple Rain in Philly last night. (not the best rendition)
Afterwards, it rained all the colors of the rainbow.

Hey San, I hope you are rapidly recovering!!

You would think but it is probably not nec for a suspect to produce any evidence of an alibi.  Or you can just take a crayon and a piece of construction paper and write "so-and-so went to FL signed the airline"  and that would suffice.

Although I do dig Fantasia, anyone other then P should pretty much stay away from that song...ya know?  ;)

LOL...Hi NM.  I guess that's works for Aruba.

Which SM poster thought it was AG because AG and Simian were never on the board at the same time....?

Some ground beef some small cube tomatoes, onion, chili powder , beer, etc. it's in the crock pot so it will be good.

To me the magic is in the toppings!

Sounds good!!  I often use ground turkey in mine.  I've also used a meat from a roast that's been pressure cooked (very extensively).  Meat falls right off the bones, and into the cooking chili.  I've also added mexican steak (Asada) as well.  Good stuff...

I heart 4 day weekends!

sorry gotta go!

Petunia, IIRC.

Code Word "Rumour"

We know for fact a call was made to MBHS student phone.  The call was subject of Greta interview w/ Beth long ago during which Beth said she believed the female voice on phone was her daughter, Natalee, who said in the recorded message: "I don't know these people..."

We know for fact as stated by jvds that he misrepresented himself to MBHS students in casino claiming that he was 19, staying at HI, exchange student, soccer player, etc.  jvds admitted to same (alternately) during interviews w/ Greta, and other places as well.

We know for a fact that Natalee entered a car and was driven away: asportation.  We also know once Natalee entered the car of deepak, she was never seen alive again, by any of her travel mates or family.

We know for a fact the words of Spencer Bachus.  What he said is important and why he says it is also important.  He said "...this was not a teen who wandered off..."  He requested the "heavy" involvement of the FBI.

Alana Jordan said that Natalee indicated she was returning to the holiday inn outside of C&C's.

Let us understand the words of Charles Croes, who has been dismissed by HT Family as unhelpful (at best), carry zero weight compared to Beth's own words re: call.  And no one ever said that Natalee rented a phone from him.  He has been spectacularly remiss in his duties as Digicel franchisee and license holder in claiming that he was unable to get originating information for call made at 3:00am.

SO, re: kidnapping / abduction ...

Let us also assume that BHT would ID her daughter's voice on the call and sign an affadavit, as well as agree to testify as witness.  (Let's table the likelihood that FBI has done voice analysis and not made results public.)

And let us make a presumption:  let us presume for a second that the "code word" rumor is not a rumor at all.  Let us presume it is true, and has the meaning previously stated.

What would you say then about kidnapping / abduction?

I'd say: WHERE ARE THE KIDNAPPING CHARGES?

(http://bestsmileys.com/thumbs/2.gif)

.
Doing a drive by as eyes still tired but Natalee's last known words were to Alana Jordan to whom she said she was going back to the HI

WITH THEM she said pointing to a group of MB students in front
of her.  She did not speak to nor acknowledge Joran's presence behind her.

Just a tiny detail but I think  it is important to keep it straight that she did indicate with whom she would be returning to the HI only minutes before she ended up in the car with the suspects.

.

Not soon enough for that tub of goo. And Glenda/Julia says he is going to be a medical doctor :lol: . Maybe he can be lab partners with Dr. Satish...whenever that Einstein finishes high school.

The Big Hammer wrote:

I'd say there were a hell of a lot of assumptions, presumptions and felonious deductions.

We all KNOW it, we just can't PROVE it.

Come on Hammer, just saying it doesn't make it so.  We aren't much if we don't recognize that we have to find something a little more "solid" than probable speculation.

Someone or something is out there that is going to bust this thing wide open.

So, is it now J2KF...J2KA...or J2KZ?

How about FJ2K?

 

I do not believe Beth ever confirmed a female caller saying "I don't know these people".

Hi Monkeys..
Just stopping in for a bit.. but I must say I just love the name of new place I learned about (out here today) Canashito

Seems  all encompassing to me  :wink:

Yes, Canashito, revisited....known of some Bagashitos, in my lifetime... :lol:  :wink:

Some good review with older posts today.

Hello OF.  Yes, "Canashito" must be the word of the day. :)   My third grade teacher, Mrs. Edna Exler said that if you use a new word three times in one day, then it's "your word".   :D

Hi, MuffyBee....welcome home.

Hi  2NJSons & Muffybee

I was starting to think  I had bad breath or cooties for a bit  :lol:  :lol:

Hi monkeys! How is everyone this evening?

Does anyone remember when the next hearing date is for Paulis and his action for MONEY from the Aruban Govt.?

I know that date should be when hell freezes over... :roll:

Hey ya'll...

It's really weird to be unemployed...

I hope all ya'll had a blessed 4th!


the 'Slinger' family..

I thought it was June 30th but I don't think it's happened.

crazybabyborg
Feels like two Mondays in one week     ugggggg :x

I was doing some graphic clean-up and came upon something...
did you once have a purple flapping duck avatar  or a different Crazy ?
I just saved it under Crazy  :oops:  :oops:
If ya did ... and want it I can post it. for you  :)

Yes, it got quiet in here, and it's not you, OF!!!

Don't know the date offhand.

Can-o-shit-o

Thank you OF! You were kind enough to make it for me, and I have it saved. You can safely delete it now. Nice of you to offer! :wink:

That's my first use of the word, Muffy.  I have two more left.  Anyone else want to help me make this word my own?   :lol:

ThirdStrike  
could not agree more But have to wonder what the people of Aruba would do (if anything) if they have to increase TAXES again just to pay off Paulis  (claim).

GunSlinger
Did you quit, take retirement, or make someone mad ?

Thanks to all on the Paulis court date ?

:shock:

:lol:  :roll:  :lol:

lol OF!  Naaa, just the last holdouts From SouthTrust HR!

aruba is in full blown self-destruct mode!

best guess - I'd say they may have another month or so before they cross the zero barrier.  After that, nothing for oduber, or the father.

Don't they have to pass their high school exit exam before they get the M.D. :roll:

AZ
You can will in the blank

Aruba thought that Natalee Holloway's mothers request for a travel boycott would have no impact on Aruba but tourist numbers have become synonymous with a popular tourist attraction on Aruba  _____________

JMO[/b]

Maybe Glenda/Julia will let him do her next plastic surgery!   :lol:

RETIRED
(http://bestsmileys.com/fishing/4.gif)

How will he pay to support his wives and children while attending med school?  Polis Chief must pay awfully well.  Must be all that "overtime" they have been collecting lately I suppose.

 8)

Do you have one that indicates "crazy like a fox?" :wink:   That's our Borg.

Sounds like aruba is ripe for the pickin'.  Anyone want an island?

OF, thank you sir, I have been feelin' like chopped liver for a few weeks.
It's good to talk to someone again.

OF, you are so sweet to give me an opportunity to make this wonderful word my own!!!  I think I'll save my remaining two chances, though, for an appropriate response to an idea that seems rather stinky to me.

 I hope so!!!!

Gun Slinger
Join the (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/6ae52945.gif) club  :wink:

GUNSLINGER

Do you have any recollection on  whether or not this has been established as a fact?


.

I'm coming in off the bench to ask this, and please don't think I'm totally ignorant, BUT.....

I thought that Rob, a couple of months ago, after much begging and pleading from us, broke his silence on Shango and Simian by saying they are 2 guys ~ one in Florida, and the other in Aruba  :?  

Someone, PLEASE help me out here .... I've been reading along all day, and I see where some of you say you have a good idea who these people are and then others seem to know who you're talking about......

I guess I just don't "get it" ~ maybe it's cause I don't post enough ( I'm always here reading)  :oops:
but I sure can't figure out who you're talking about ~ I feel really stupid.

I like this.  "This coverup from Aruba smells like a can-o-shit-o." :wink:

"Plastic Surgery"?  That girl needs PLASTER Surgery!!  And, forgoet about a doctor.  She'd need a welder... :roll:

I was reading everyone's thoughts in their posts, and just wanted to say that I had never really settled on a scenario that I didn't adjust a bit with new information. Today, I'm ready to finally go one step beyond Carlos and Charlie's where I'm convinced Nat was drugged. I'm convinced that Freddy was at Joran's that night. I'm not sure whether he was there before Joran left for C&Cs, but I think he was there when JK2 arrived with Nat.
Just below absolutely convinced, I think it highly probable that Freddy had prepared to film Natalee, and may have done so. Here's why I think this stuff:

1. Freddy's name pops up as relevant to JK2's situation in the van conversation within seconds after they are left alone.
2. I totally discount the Fla. reunion story as "family protection".
3. Melody said that Freddy spent the night with Joran that night.
4. Paulus hired an attorney for Freddy.
5. The story that young Aruban girl/s saw Nat in a video.
6. It makes sense to me that Freddy's family is Mafia/drug/illegal activity involved. Look at his brother's involvement in casino/bar success. That would also account for Paulus' actions, and ALE's "hands off" stance around Freddy. Paulus was scared of the family.
7. KJ has allowed ALE to maintain their stance around Freddy despite her assistant's resignation over not being able to get ALE to look more closely at him.

I think that's pretty correct and AzLady says it smells to high heaven of a can-o-shit-o.

CBB, we are thinking alike.  I agree with every single point.  Right on.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Is that your third use of the word, Tyler?  You might own it by now!!!

Very good theory CBB!!  I'm impressed!!  ;)

Posted at RU a while ago....

Spuds Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:20 pm    
Judge Kapnick's vacation

Today I noticed that she will not be on the bench the week of July 17st through the 21st. If no ruling is issued during the week before it, I think we are going to have a long, long wait.

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Tyler, you are on a roll tonight!  :wink:

.
Well, it is three times to own the word but I don't think there is a limit on the number of times you are allowed to use it.  Once you own it, you are free to use it any number of times.  

Early reports had ALE searching the area of Canoshito.  Too bad they didn't search in the area of the REAL one.   :?

Have fun Monkeys  

SeeeYaByeeeeeeeeee

Third! I'm so glad to hear from you! I waved this morning, but couldn't get a rise out of you. But, hey there!  :D

No, no, I want to pass it off.  It smells.

 :lol: {Slapping forehead!!!}
Why didn't I think of that?  Of course, I could use Canoshito to describe many places on that island--and many people, too.  well, duh!!  I seem to be very slow tonight, Anna.  Please forgive.  Okay, where is this Canoshito, now?

It has been established!

AZLady,
Apparently staying at the Marriott with his girlfriend, so we heard.

.

That's good enough for me.  My friend, AlaGS said that weeks ago.  He don't mess around.

Good night old friend!

Whay you mean??  You ALWAYS get a rise out of me!!  Wait...oh snap.  That didn't come out the way it was supposed to...;)

How you been??  Good 4th?  Email me sometimes...damn it!!  ;)

I understand.  Just make sure you wash your hands well with soap.   :D

No, No, AZLady. Canoshito is only proper to describe places. You'll have to revert to Jackoshito for people's names. Let's watch our grammer.... :wink:

MY Travel agencies have not booked Aruba in over a year and it used to be in our top 10 booking each ear!!!! :P  :P  

Borg good thinking1 It makes good sense!!

GUNSLINGER,
We are trying today to make a case for charges of kidnapping/abduction something less than murder that could be proven.  We need something concrete like that for proof Natalee was held against her will.

.

 :lol:  :lol: OK, well, at least it was my theory that impressed you this time! :wink:

Well, if one's describing a person who's intelligence is in question on that island, can we use the term "Dumboshito"?

Oh, CBB--I will resist this one demurely.   :lol:   I know you threw it in my path just to trip me up.    How about one tall Canoshito?  Does that count?  I hear he's staying at the Marriott with his blonde girlfriend...

Yes, Rob told us.  One is Gaib..

You constantly impress me CBB!!  That's why you are one of my favs...;)

Third wrote:
Well, if one's describing a person who's intelligence is in question on that island, can we use the term "Dumboshito"?

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
If Dumboshit'so, I'm getting out of the way!!!!

Whoever they are, they should both be locked up for obstruction of justice!!   :evil:   They've done absolutely nothing to help this family gain closure.  And, that makes me VERY angry!!

Yes, the phone call consisted of the following....

"I don't know these people!"  (you could hear the terror in her voice)

followed by a male voice

"Who are you calling?"  "You're parents?"

then the call disconnects.

I know many people in hear treat this alleged call as gospel truth, but I have to admit to still being skeptical of it's existence...at least in it's current form (as described above). If it did, in fact, exist exactly as described, wouldn't the FBI have been able to identify the voices through testing?  And, if so, wouldn't they have a good, solid peice of evidence to use in a prosecution?

Sorry 'bout the quotes!

If this call is known fact, why hasn't there been a voice analysis? Her voice is available on videos "seat belt buckling" and one of the students has a message from her saved. I'm sure there are more. If that were proven, I would think it would be known. Am I missing something? I thought Dave said he didn't think it was Natalee.

Well, partner, I don't think JQK filed his suit without having a good solid piece of evidence in his back pocket.  Oh, yeah, the FBI can do that; they most certainly can.

Third, I am sorry you don't believe me.  But I heard it.  Believe what you want.  That is you're right.

It would thrill me if they can prove the voice is Natalee's. I just don't understand why they would keep it a secret. Secrecy wouldn't make it more valuable.

Not a problem.  I got your message just fine.  

To elaborate, it actually angers me when it's brought up in here.  Why?  Well, they seem to be celebrated more then criticized.  Many enjoy the "mystery" surrounding their existence...and even enjoy playing their "word games".  Now, I'm no one to judge.  I respect other's right to discuss them.  But, IMO, I think their as full of crap as a Andy Gump at a Swap Meet... :roll:

 

CBB, if you had heard it.  You would not need a voice analysis now to know who the voices belonged to.

Does anyone know how long Art Wood worked for the Secret Service? How long ago did he retire?
What branch of the Secret Service did he work in?  Did he just investigate things like bank fraud? Has he ever had any training in missing person or homicide investigations? I am curious what his qualifications are.

By the way, I just visited Sitemeter, and Aruba is here.  Heeellloooo Oranjestad!!!   :mrgreen:

I don't think I brought it up.

Maybe Spuds is looking at a different calendar than I am:

 :wink:

http://tinyurl.com/rd5zn

Can I ask how you heard it?  And, it's not that I don't believe you did.  That's not in dispute.  I have no reason to believe you'd lie to me.  It's just that, I guess I am skeptical it's Natalee on the other end...

To ask the question again though...why hasn't there been any voice anaylsis tests done to determine it to be (without doubt)?

gunslinger..............I accept your representation, honest. I just know that a court proceeding would need it authenticated to accept it as her voice.

XXX, I don't follow your comments.  What angers you when it's brought up here?  The call from Natalee to her mother's answering machine?  Now, you've lost me about the "mystery" surrounding someone's existence.  Do you mean the Shango/Simian thing?

I recall that Dave said he didn't think it was Natalee. Does anyone else remember that? I find myself having to reaffirm stuff anymore. This case has gotten long!

I don't post very often, but statements such as the above really bother me.  The fact that Natalee told Alana she was going back to the HI is most certainly evidence that she expected to be taken back to the HI, and would be evidence of kidnapping.  It would be up to the defense to then present evidence that Natalee changed her mind, and let the trier of fact (judge or jury) decide if a kidnapping occurred.  I can't say it would be enough to convict, because I don't know much about criminal law, and of course in Aruba there is no jury, only judges, but there is certainly evidence of a kidnapping.  There's a big difference between no evidence, and possibly not enough to convict.  Whether there is enough to bring a case to trial is a subjective determination that is made by the prosecutor.  Anyway, there is evidence.

Oh Shoot! I gotta run. I'll be back.................

All I know is Art Wood found a belt...and it was probably discarded as trash.  What his qualifications are is probably irellevant...

If you go to the Dana Pretzer show and listen to Art's introduction, he tells a bit about his background and experience.  It's at: http://bruinfan.sasktelwebsite.net/

Can-o-shit-o

Sorry about that.  This anger is strictly directed towards the Shango/Simian thing...not the phone call.

My apologies for the confusion...

Of course, KKK.  It was on the television.  Greta.  that is why an MB'r has to re-save the msg, every so often.  Greta did not play it during the last interview with her friends(2nd opportunity).  It's the evidence that will kick this into high gear, and remove all doubt.

Different call.  That's the one from Mexico (alledgedly) that Dave does not think is Natalee, thinks it was a mixed up line or kids playing on phone where the young female voice says something to the effect:  "Momma, I am still here."

And you are correct in that any evidence introduced into court, in the form of a phone call, or other media, would need to be verified by reliable testing.  I'm sure that is done before it is considered as evidence to be brought into court.  Otherwise, it would be thrown out.  Just because WE don't have the verification or the evidence does not mean it does not exist.

Wait, it's "XXX" not "KKK".  Don't want to give folks the wrong impression, dig??  ;)

Now, you say you heard the actual message itself on TV?  To date, I've never heard it on any show I know of.  Have it saved anywhere?

Well, from a stats keeper, are they lookin, or are they swingin?  Reason I ask is tha I have my kids stats in score-it from the first time they picked up a baseball.

Take a cue.  Just ignore anyone who appears to have an agenda.

I agree with this 100%!  It's just that, I'm the type that relies on more tangible things to persuade me...ya know?  Faith is a different story, however.  I believe the (3) had as much more to do with Natalee's disappearance then they didn't.  Don't need tangible evidence to tell me that though...

You got that right.  I just want to further express my feelings about this case.  

I do it for Justice!

XXX, I agree with your sig line that if Shango/Simian have evidence or knowledge they should share it with the appropriate authorities.  Now, I have to assume that S/S are people who may have some information, and the FBI have known about them for some time.  That's a given.  However, it doesn't erase the reality that they were playing what I considered a political game here.  Their posts are heavily laded with Carribean political references.  The political scene in Aruba and the Carribean is unsettled and the internet is a medium political groups use to get their messages across.  I really believe the S/S posts were political statements using this case as a springboard.   Hopefully, there are some helpful hints in their posts for the FBI, but I think they were writing it as they wished it to be, not as it was.

bb in a minute, transferring to the upstairs network....

I think that you and I and many others are here for that reason, for Natalee, for Beth, Dave and their family, friends and want to see justice take place.  Sometimes, however, some come along with a different agenda.  It's sad but true. :cry:

Yeah, I get the "SO" thing for sure (in the form of "K's").  It's just that, some may not be so knowledgeable in sports terminology, and instead may believe I am wearing a wife beater with overalls...drive a truck, and wear a muttlet under a dixie flag mesh cap while burning crosses on my front lawn (dirt, actually).  I just don't want to confuse people...

OK, I got to run.  Work is through, and I need to get out of this office!!  ;)

Talk to you all later (hopefully)...

Strike

XXX, we're all pretty savvy to the old double entendre!

Hiya Monkeys... finally caught up!!!
Tyler I have some of Melody's posts from RWV.

Yup!  Besides, I kind of like the "XXX". Suits my style more then "Triple K" does...;)

Be good, AZLady!  See you when I see you...

Do you think this is a staple of the island sold at the grocery sthe reason for all the chit coming out of the island:  Buy yours here.  On sale today, makes a quick pick-up snack for sporters:  CAN-O-SHIT-O.

Isn't that called "SPAM"??  Ok, really gone now...

I'll bet Klaas can come up with a pic of that Can-shit-o from the grocery store in Oranjestad.  She has everything in her bag of tricks.

Bye XXX.  Have a good evening.

I understand, XXX.

Hey, I quit beating my wife.

I have been trying to catch up for an hour.   Arubagirl was born in March 1980 making her 26 years old.

Do you still drive a truck and wear a cap? :lol:  :lol:

Sounds right to me Crazy.

And on that note, I think I'll take a break.  I'll be back later.   :lol:

Hey monks...

Any coverage that we know of tonight?

TIA

CBB...I thought KJ's assistant resigned over them refusing to requestion Koen???

Great.  I cannot find mine, must be some of the things I lost in crash.

Hi Yap, I think it was the assistant prosecutor.  And she did resign because the ALE were ignoring her requests because she saw holes in Koen's story.

WTF is that supposed to mean.

Hi San...you are correct. This same asst prosecutor met with Dave IIRC

Sorry to take so long..wasn't on PC, lol  :lol:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/SPAMAURBA.jpg)

I have no faith of Aruba doing anything right.. I lost any kind of respect for the United Nations and its just as corrupt as Aruba and we bail them out.  So I can see it now that our tourist dollars might stop going but I can see the US sending foreign aid to them..  When will we realized that not everyone is our friend and maybe we should be more particular who we the US decide to be friends with..

TylerGal,

I thought your bear story was actually something I did.. It was with squirrels that actually chew a hole onto my roof...  I had a bird feeder and it brought a lot of little squirrels with it.. I enjoyed watching them play around the pool and then I noticed that they would climb on my roof and disappear..  Well one morning, I decided to climb my roof( cedar shake ) and it was still dew on the shingles and they were slippery.. I found the hole they made into my attic and about that time I started sliding down the roof and I layed myself out trying to find some purchase so I would stop sliding.. Well it was very slow but I couldn't stop myself, so when I got to the edge of the roof, I kick out and landed on my back and it knocked the air out of me but more I was hoping no one saw me sliding down my roof.. I remember while on the ground I did a mental check to see if everything was ok so I could jump up and look like I planned that way to get down..  After that I decided to get rid of the bird feeder and have moved and now have a barrel tile roof....

Oh but definitely worth it.  Good job Klaas!   :lol:

Hi guys!!

I have been gone from about 10 days, and in the last couple of days of trying to catch up, (impossible!) I notice arubagirls name coming up a lot.  Is there some speculation about her that I am missing?  Can someone fill me in please?

I even bought one of those little corncob holders for the squirrels until I realized that they decided to make my house part of their nest.. One morning I was watching one of the alpha male squirrels running around my pool, jumping around the corners and he misjudged the jump.. I had to run out and get the pool net and save him, he was so angry he was trying to bite me, thinking I must of push him in..  When I was married, my wife and I would walk around the pool because I had all these planters on wheels and I would move them around the pool to get different sun light.. She told me that I had a mobile garden and thought it was funny.. Well one morning we were walking around the pool and she was bending over to smell one of the flowers and a bee came out and she backed up into the pool.. Well this is in the winter here in Florida and the water does get cold.. She had her business suit on and was trying to get up and was asking me to help her but I couldn't.. I was on the ground laughing too hard to help and everytime I tried to get up, I would look at her and start laughing all over again.. Umm maybe thats why she is my exwife..

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  You always make me laugh even when I am having a bad day.  URTHEBEST.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

:lol:  :lol:

Duty calls, or IV people.  I hate them.

 :lol:  :lol: That coffee table book is going to cover a lot.

Well I just stopped by to say hi and didn't want to stopped the discussion.  I was hoping something would be on tv tonight..  I would like to have Beth on the radio show, she could validate a lot of our threads.  She kept notes and I think that Aruba is scared of when she does write a book, it will tell all.. I think we only know the tip of the iceberg and we have no idea what she has gone through besides losing someone so valuable to her..  I know she can't tell all yet but I know that she can tell us the threads that we should keep investigating..  

Aruba knows the game and knows how to play our own country against the victim..  We are very open and they are very closed and have no rules..  When we attack they yell unfair, we are poor Aurbans and you want to take our money but they have no problem protecting those that attack Natalee and her family.. So I have very little compassion for that little island..

LOL - another great short story.  May I have an autographed copy of your book when it comes out?   :wink:

And not to push it, but could you bring us monkeys coffee a bit earlier in the morning...mine always gets cold before I get back from work to drink it   :lol:

BTW...hello monkeys...


I'm liking Toby Rand's voice...

Sleuth ,

I love my coffee really hott and its losing the heat too fast.. I'm not sure why, I goto the drive through and I think they are just giving me ready made coffee.. I think tomorrow I will have to go in and make sure they make it fresh and I will be a little bit earlier..  Take care..

Oh man - I just saw this..... :lol:

Just coming in the cage, I haven't read back... but are we discussing AG?  how come?  what's up y'all??

Korea is set to launch 3 or 4 more missiles in the very near future according to News.

Hey Mrs, and all!

I saw that!  
How are you ??

Terry
O/T but  have to ask.. how may years / months / days or hours after this incident did the D happen?  
That may give you a clue if this was the reason ... :wink:

Oh ... sorry  ...  Hi Monkeys ... :)

Really don't understand all the hubbub about the N. Korean missle thing.

If they ever launch a missle that Hits the U.S. then N. Korea should become a glass parking lot, what's the big deal?

Lala's, I don't have the date but Dave met with her. It was in his book & I have mine loaned out

Does anyone remember the name of the assistant prosecutor that resigned?  And the date?   TIA

Do I have to have a samwich made out of that stuff again Mom ? :oops:

Hey Mrs~ I'm ok, just tired first day back at work...

Carnut~  I guess I'm just overloading on bad news.  People getting wiped out left and right or coming back in pieces from iraq.

Now this....

It gets me weary after awhile.

It never stops.

I seem to recall that the assistant pros was the daughter of KJ's boss and some speculation there was politics involved in the resignation.

Lala's - I've been trying to email you, but not sure it's working ... can you check?

I don't have the S/S thread saved on my computer. I do have a printout I can mail to you - but of course would need your street address.

klaasend
I do hope that is not a actual manufactures logo in the pic..
We do not want you hit with a defamation of character suit  by them :wink:

Japan is our ally.

seeing if this works - test signature

Carnut, Maryanne Croes was the daughter of her boss but was only the spokesperson for the Office of the Prosecution, before Arlene.

Assistant prosecutor who resigned last name was something like Flanegan  or Flanigin?  

.

Alamin Flanegan (sic)

Marianne Croes, the sophisticated and attractive spokesperson.

Arleen Schippers, the ......................spokesperson.

Ok, I can go along with that. Guess my recall ain't what it used to be.

I have not received any emails from you yet. Are you using the email in profile?  If you want send it to Klaas and she will forward.

If we value our allies, then the same should go if they get hit by a N. Korean missle. Kinda also should apply for Israel and any Iran action.

Now, straighten me out on Marianne Croes, please.  My memory is fading after all this time.  She was who's boss or daughter?  What would be her age?  What was her job at the beginning and where is she now? Thanks.

Look again ... I'm pretty sure my 4th idea worked!

Alamin Flanegan (sic)[/quote]


Right and Dave says in his book that it was because ALE refused to question Koen.  His father was allowed to go to answer questions for him.  So why didn't KJ back her up?  Same reason she didn't try harder to get the search warrant for the sloots?  Further proof that it is  KJ who can order things done by the ALE.  


Tyler, do not type while getting an IV will back it up and make your vein irritated.  

.

I have an additional question also.  Was Paulus still waiting to find out about his judgeship when Natalee disappeared?  I thought he knew in March, but I recall many times he was referred to as a judge in training. TIA

Right and Dave says in his book that it was because ALE refused to question Koen.  His father was allowed to go to answer questions for him.  So why didn't KJ back her up?  Same reason she didn't try harder to get the search warrant for the sloots?  Further proof that it is  KJ who can order things done by the ALE.  


Tyler, do not type while getting an IV will back it up and make your vein irritated.  

.[/quote]

Think I'm pretty much on board with KJ being part of the problem.

She was the spokesperson before Arlene, rather young wore glasses and was very business like but immature.  Later had a make over and improved appearance but think she always told too much so KJ replaced her with Arlene.  I have no idea where she might be now nor her exact age.  One of the very first to tell us we did not understand their system.

.

msmarple
I got it. Thanks!

I wondered about that, too. I think it's likely that his failure wasn't general knowledge, and people were accustomed to thinking of him as a judge-in-training - "judge" for short.

Maybe he hadn't even told Anita; possibly waiting until the school term was over, or after her visit to the family in Holland. Then it got splashed all over the internet ...  :twisted:

Yes... but one that came across has giving as much Factual info that she could
If anyone has a link to some of the 1st PR video out of Aruba she should be the the spokes person.

Evidence of Kidnapping / Abduction

For those still engaged...

Exactly what "constitutes" evidence of a kidnapping or abduction?

Do you know? Have you read the law?

Demand for ransom?  Eyewitness account of forced taking?  Person "missing"? For how long?  

Are you sure?  Review civil proceeding section re: "false imprisonment".  Factor in minor status in Alabama, as secondary.

The call w/ words as coded: "I don't know these people..." Female.  3:00am, 5/30/05.  Words chosen as code to her mother, her father.

KIDNAPPING / ABDUCTION !!

Try me.  Put me in front of a jury with this and signed affadavit from Beth Holloway stating voice is her daughter and code stands as stated.

20 years.  Slam dunk easy.

I would start there.  Murder next, and onto premeditation.

Think I'm pretty much on board with KJ being part of the problem.[/quote]
There is NO question she is part of the problem -- the question is whether she is  leading the cover-up or whether she simply doesn't have the spine/intellect to KNOW she is part of the problem. I think she is being led around by the nose by those that HAVE tocover this up!

So, what was Marianne's parent's name that was KJ boss?  Anyone?  Would you say she was about 26-28 years old? Anyone?


Also this prosecutor resigned when?  When was Koen's dad questioned?

Yes, she was kidnapped.  That is the reason nobody will ever prosecuted for that crime.  Way too easy to prove at this point.  Then again, do they really want to prosecute for a crime that is a slam dunk??  Not likely.  Unless the pot is stirred regularly, nothing is going to happen.  I predicted this in one of the very first posts on this forum.  Too bad I don't have a copy of it.

No, he knew that in march about the time the sporter was accosting spring vacationers.  oK, anna, i'm through.

I hate to even think it but there is no way I can get around the fact that she has done more to stall and prevent the investigation than anyone else. Mostly Acts of omission, too rather than anything she actually does.

Does not bode well for a case going forward to court.

 :(

HAMMER - who signed the papers to arrest the security guards instead of JK2?  Who's in charge of the police?  Who decides what evidence goes to the judge?

I know the answer, I just like your presentions better than mine. :wink:

Hi Big Hammer - of eternal Signature Quest:

I am following your presention closely.

But I'm also vaguely remembering something that was stated earlier about charges. They can bring charges down, but can't bring them up.

E.g., if they charge with kidnapping, they can't add a murder charge later. But, if they charge murder, they can later add kidnapping.

Or something like that.

But all facts considered, a conviction for kidnapping would be SOMETHING, which would be better than NOTHING.

Are you pretty confident about this coded message, and that it was indeed NH calling? Which call was this?

In Dave's book, as I recall, he pretty much dismisses all phone calls ... although if that ONE is for real, possibly nobody wants to talk about it yet.

Lala's
I was going to post something kinda pointed about you being busy with your (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/lalas_book.gif)over the holliday weekend thinking up questions to ask.
but the more I reflect on what I remember seeing out hear to day.. in the way of questions I wonder if DANA could get a Rep/ Senator on his show..   He met with the delegation from Aruba and seemed content with their efforts.  Has his view changed?
Just Wondering

This is true however, if they can prove kidnapping now and get a conviction they should do it.  They can retry if a body or other evidence turns up indicating murder.

Old Fart
Dana could try to get an interview with Bacchus. He is up for reelection.  Maybe all of us Alabama monkeys could call in. It would be his constituents asking the questions then.

Heh, Heh, looks like Greta needed a London vacation.

WHO Signed Those Papers?

Whose name is signatory on papers authorizing arrest of Mickey Johns and Abraham Jones?

Who stood on the stoop of their homes at dawn in Saint Nicolas on June 5, 2005 as these two men were dragged handcuffed from their beds in their underwear?

Who signed those papers?

Who signed the papers accepting words of kalpoe and sloot as WITNESS to effect arrest of these two men?

Did Abraham Jones and Mickey Johns ABDUCT AND KIDNAP Natalee Ann Holloway?

Does fat boy Jan van der Straaten and wimp girl Karin Jannsen think the world does not see or know?  

Dirty cops with dirty hands staring at a Failure to Perform charge, dereliction of duty, obstruction...

Where's the KIDNAPPING CHARGE?

I have not heard of any actions against the Casinos / Bars that allowed Joran to conduct illegal activities (gamble/ drink) or for PaPa Sloot to knowing allow him to participate  Minior charges that follow you ..Yes.. but sill (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/7d979580.gif)
someone with influence or the people of Aruba should be screaming like (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/ANGRY.gif) over it.
So how can we expect any major charges  being filed at this point in time?

After all we do not know their system... BUT I pray that Beth & Dave have someone in their corner that does, even if we have to be left in the dark.

JMO  of course

Did someone say Tylergal was getting an IV?  What is going on? Clue me in. :shock:

Amelin Flanegan

Per Dave she resigned 'about a month into the case' when ALE 'refused to interrogate Koen'.

I am almost caught up... whew a lot going on in here today...

Looks like Greta prefers talking about world affairs instead of pressing legal issues, like Ken Lays death and it's effect on the Enron case or any of the murder cases in the news lately, preachers wife, pawn shop owner, even the confession throw out in FL.

Why wait... start e-mails now to Bacchus and let us know how to get them thru.
I went thru some site to send one but never got anything back.
It was like I had to provide a zip code in his district.  The contact site I found was a canoshito in nature.   A cave or dark hole in the ground . :wink:

.
The fact that the suspects tell conflicting and contradictory stories about what happened the night Natalee disappeared should qualify as some sort of cirucumstantial evidence.  

Lalas,
Tyler is getting antibiotics IV for infection.  Home Health care brings them to her.  

.

Hey Mrs Red, me too.  I have been reading and reading.  Now that I am caught up it's about time for bed.

Hope you and Red are doing well.

So rude of me, Hey all.  I have been unable to get in for sometime now.  I have still been reading and following all your great work.  

Hello all..

Welcome TNMoM,
And just want to set the record straight that you are the one who is a travel agent?  Right?  Not chatter of chat rooms globally?  Was afraid you might be confused with recently departed poster with similar name.

 :D

Welcome TNMOM!

So that puts her regination around the end of June. Thanks Igsigs.

TNMOM
HI...
Glad to decided to join us and not just (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/OldF/8b03b6c8.gif) around :lol:
Hope you can stay caught up ... for I can not... :oops:

You have to call his Birminghma office.  That is what I did.  I think Anna may have called him also.  His office was cordial to me, but then again I am in Alabama. Any response from him will be of a political nature.  I don't think he cares about anything but his political future.

Yes your correct, I am a travel agent and have been far too many years.

TNMOM
For what is worth
You will learn that I cannot spell and get word confused.. hope you can read very, very, very bad english

Glad YOU not  "Glad to" :oops:  :oops:  :cry:

Thanks Klass

I have been keeping up, but nothing like you girl....  I am so proud this site has you.  You have done a great job.  You have control of the entire case and more.  I appreciate all you do.....

My life is full, and not much time for talk, but I want you all to know I still follow you and all your doing.

To date we still have had no bookings for Aruba, not even questions of ARUBA.  Normally we would have had many, so I feel Red's front page about the tourism being down as being absolutely correct.

I have read your post for a long time, and see great knowledge in them.  Spelling isn't all that important, unless your obessive compulsive.

Ok, I am in and back out for the night.  Guy's keep up the great work.
It's nice to be back.

Goodnight

Lala's
I just wondering here ... but he made such a "Big-to-do" about meeting with the Aruban delegation (in  December  ?
Wonder if any MSM could a follow up with him ~ now 6-7 months later and get his current views on this case.  Has he changed his oponion?.  
If notting esle  MSM or LOCAL media should at least let the good people of Alabama that he did NOT want to do a follow up :wink:
JMO of course

Thanks!

Hi, monkeys!

Welcome to new primates!

I would just like to say that I have always found Shizaru's posts to be about finding the truth, and no other agenda.

Hey TNMom... We are well, thanks!  I am like you finally getting caught up and it's bed time... almost

We cannot turn the whole world into glass. :shock:

Old Fart
Sadly, our local media has had little coverage of this case lately.  Actually, hardly any in the last few months.  I don't think it is a forgotten issue, just an old issue to them.  The only play it gets is on the local talk radio circuit and then it is vague.  I will email our local media and ask them about a follow up since it is election time in the South.

Night TNMom...

Glad you clarified that Anna. I was sort of confused for a minute. LOL
Has the other poster departed?

Sam

OMG, gun, you actually heard the "tape"? What you wrote gives me chills. Poor Natalee.

Yes :wink:

Sam, the other one was mean to Klaasend and was given her wish to be banned....

Yeah, I think there was just a bit of a misunderstanding there.

Heh, Heh, good thing my finger ain't on the button.

Humm, I musta missed something, was that the 'Psycho' deal?

Thank you Klaas and Mrs Red. She was getting a little disruptive. Although I would have liked to see some of those pictures. LOL To bad she did not have just one of Lorenzo though. LOL

Yes, that part was disruptive and statistically impossible.  That's not what got her banned though. :wink:

Dang... great discussions today y'all... I finally get caught up and now I need to get outta here... but keep the faith monkeys!!

Good Night!

Klaas has the ability to "poof" people?  :shock:  :shock:

Let me write that down. (http://bestsmileys.com/writer/5.gif)