Lively Case Discussion #564 12/22 - Christmas Eve

[klaasend]

Freddy - CnC 12/22/2006

[Kat_Gram]

Sure looked like Hiram to me.

Freddy looks sweaty. and just as UGH .

[Appeals]

Justin's, you are doing fine considering the stress of the situation your Mom is in at the moment, and I feel strongly your Mom will be up and about sooner than anyone in the family thinks.  It may well be that your Mom just needs time for her body to heal itself and take advantage of the medical care she has already been given.  I'm not knowledgeable about patient care like BleachedBlack and some of the other health care monkeys, but I did see my Mom pull out of some sticky situations in the last 20 years of life.  My heart goes out to you and your family.  I know it is very difficult right now.

[Appeals]

Florida,

I think I see Joran's hands handcuffed in front of him.  For some reason, I think this picture is when they took him out on one of those beach outings, the excuse being he was to show them where he left the girl, or some such nonsense.  Remember him hitting the front of the vehicle one of those times?  And I remember they had video of him actually putting himself into the vehicle, like the ALE could not be bothered.

Or am I just imagining it?

[Altruist]

Freddy - CnC 12/22/2006

The "thug in training wearing the green" looks about 14.  3 of the 4 look miserable & evil to me only the one woman smiling seems even close to natural.

Parents on the Devil's Rock better wake up or they will find themselves the victim's of their offspring.

[San]

Freddy - CnC 12/22/2006

Back to the crime scene.

I wonder if Joran is going home for the Holiday or is he home already and hiding from De Vries.

[justinsmama]

Geez. just talked to brother. Mom tried to pull off the BIPAP mask. They gave her valium. Tried calling to see if anything had been ordered for heart rate. Nurse is busy with her and is to call me back.

BIPAP is very uncomfortable to wear....it is very tight, allthough some people with sleep apnea have to sleep with it on. Have they let her have it off at all?
Sometimes you can take it off for an hour or two or three, and give someone a rest.  To tell you the truth valium is rarely used now-a-days. If sedation is needed we might use ativan. Is Mom confused? or is she oriented? If she is confused she might benefit from some Haldol.

Valium would slow the heart rate very little.....but of course if someone is wildly agitated and that is why their HR is elevated, sedation would help some. But the thing is you need to treat the cause......if the HR is up it could be making her breathing worse (increasing fluid in the lungs= congestive heart failure) which is intern could be  making her more agitated . Often people who are having trouble breathing think the mask is actually making them worse.

Key question is is Mom oriented or confused/agitated?

At hospital now. Was not valium but rather ativan. Her HR dropped to 106, resp. at 17 and bp is excellent. Still febrile. Had family meeting. Once her head is clear of the ativan we are going to make it clear to her that she has a chance of recovery if she sticks with the BIPAP, and ask if she wants to continue the fight with it. She has always been adamant that she not be kept artificially alive, which this is not (no more than the antibiotics are). Suspect she does not trust us on this and that she may believe we are hoodwinking her. When she became agitated, my sister-in-law was in there, hovering over her, touching her and bumping the bed. SIL has neurological disorder that makes her childlike and difficulty with involuntary movement. Mother has never liked her. Tolerated and behaved as though she likes her for brother's sake.

[Sue]

Freddy - CnC 12/22/2006

Back to the crime scene.

I wonder if Joran is going home for the Holiday or is he home already and hiding from De Vries.

I keep wondering the same thing Jorn should be back on that island either
that or his family traveled to Holland for Christmas.. He is lurking somewhere

[Florida]

MAGIC 96.5 Radio Station

Look at all the familiar names working at Magic 96.5:
Website designed by "Renzo" the DJ
Meet the Staff
https://caribmed.securesites.com/magic/old/pictures_1.html

DJ Paul...."Paul Brough look a like"...
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NYSusan/renzopaul.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b223/NYSusan/PaulBrough2-1.jpg
Nike Shirt Guy....Looks like Deepak ?
Rueben
Also, on staff....
Lynell Bernadina...SEXTACY SHOP Owner
DJ Kenny (Ponson?)
Alex Ponson

There is a KENNETH PONSON who is part owner
of the Aruba Racquet Club

MELVIN:
Works as a reporter at  Magic 95.5 and ATV 15
(Could he be part of Aru-bay Videos?)

Top FM (95.1 FM) Address: Santa Cruz 110
is the radio station that 2 radio station workers spotted a blonde in a car
with the guy and his ax...Near van Rijn's "Barcadera 4" Seaport area.

[Florida]

Florida,

I think I see Joran's hands handcuffed in front of him.  For some reason, I think this picture is when they took him out on one of those beach outings, the excuse being he was to show them where he left the girl, or some such nonsense.  Remember him hitting the front of the vehicle one of those times?  And I remember they had video of him actually putting himself into the vehicle, like the ALE could not be bothered.

Or am I just imagining it?

Hi Appeals...Did you mean to send this to me?
I'll answer anyway...lol
I think there are 2 trips to the fisherman's hut area with Joran.
In one he's handcuffed behind his back...
long sleeved shirt...blue, of course. And the other he's handcuffed in front & he hits the car & the LE guys are oblivious to him....

[Florida]

I think they shared the same hair dye.....

[LilPuma]

The "thug in training wearing the green" looks about 14.  3 of the 4 look miserable & evil to me only the one woman smiling seems even close to natural.

Parents on the Devil's Rock better wake up or they will find themselves the victim's of their offspring.

I think they're trying to look cool, tough, edgy.  It's a kid thing.

[LilPuma]

This case did not receive the coverage in Aruba that it did in the US.  Citizens of Aruba protested Nancy and Beth.  The Skeeters tapes were trounced by Aruba as bogus and we've seen posts by many who truly believe this.  Joran says he's gotten wide support from Arubans.  We've seen posts by many Arubans, Dutch and Americans who believe these guys are the victims because there is no evidence (their mantra).  So how is any of this having a significantly negative impact on Joran or the Kalpoes?  If people are threatening the Kalpoes or Joran, what is ALE doing about it?  Do they know who is threatening them?  Deepak says no one wants to associate with him.  Why not since Arubans believe they're innocent and being railroaded by the mean arrogant Americans?  I was thinking about the response by an Aruban to the APB for Greta and wanted to translate something for her:  

1.  Nadira in Papamiento is Nadira (Maybe they roll the "r" like in Spanish?)  
2.  Nadira in English is Nadira
3.  Nadira in Dutch is ???????  (I'll just bet it's Nadira)

[bleachedblack]

Bleachedblack - if you are still here.  Is this Hiram at the Karma Lounge last night?

No, it doesn't really look like him to me to much. Though aruba sure has it's fill of  fragile looking guys that like to wear make-up and dye their hair.  

[justinsmama]

Kat~ Would love to squeeze another 5 years out of that beautiful old woman!

Yes, we can be in there as much as we like. Part of the problem is sister-in-law with Huntington's Chorea. Brother taking her to some family on her side to keep her.

The five of us went in to talk to Mom about her recovery and whether she wanted to continue to fight or not. I truly believe we had some Divine Intervention there. Her stats were FANTASTIC! HR actually down to 96-100 bpm, blah, blah, blah! She was sleeping so deeply that we could not wake her. One eye slightly opened and then closed. We retreated, reconvened, and breathed sighs of relief!

Nurse told us that we had a dress rehearsel so we'll be prepared IF we need to do this. And Bleached, they did start the cardipezam or whatever the heck it is!

I'm going to move this subject to the lounge so peeps can focus on the case (and Natalee) here. Thank you so much, monkey family!

[justinsmama]

It looks like Hiram to me. Who is the man with him?

[bleachedblack]

Geez. just talked to brother. Mom tried to pull off the BIPAP mask. They gave her valium. Tried calling to see if anything had been ordered for heart rate. Nurse is busy with her and is to call me back.

BIPAP is very uncomfortable to wear....it is very tight, allthough some people with sleep apnea have to sleep with it on. Have they let her have it off at all?
Sometimes you can take it off for an hour or two or three, and give someone a rest.  To tell you the truth valium is rarely used now-a-days. If sedation is needed we might use ativan. Is Mom confused? or is she oriented? If she is confused she might benefit from some Haldol.

Valium would slow the heart rate very little.....but of course if someone is wildly agitated and that is why their HR is elevated, sedation would help some. But the thing is you need to treat the cause......if the HR is up it could be making her breathing worse (increasing fluid in the lungs= congestive heart failure) which is intern could be  making her more agitated . Often people who are having trouble breathing think the mask is actually making them worse.

Key question is is Mom oriented or confused/agitated?

At hospital now. Was not valium but rather ativan. Her HR dropped to 106, resp. at 17 and bp is excellent. Still febrile. Had family meeting. Once her head is clear of the ativan we are going to make it clear to her that she has a chance of recovery if she sticks with the BIPAP, and ask if she wants to continue the fight with it. She has always been adamant that she not be kept artificially alive, which this is not (no more than the antibiotics are). Suspect she does not trust us on this and that she may believe we are hoodwinking her. When she became agitated, my sister-in-law was in there, hovering over her, touching her and bumping the bed. SIL has neurological disorder that makes her childlike and difficulty with involuntary movement. Mother has never liked her. Tolerated and behaved as though she likes her for brother's sake.

At hospital now. Was not valium but rather ativan.
Good thing....call it vitamin A, keep it coming as long as needed /as long as BIPAP needed, sedation is better than agitation for heart  

Her HR dropped to 106, resp. at 17 and bp is excellent. Still febrile.
Vital sounds are looking good.

She has always been adamant that she not be kept artificially alive, which this is not (no more than the antibiotics are). Suspect she does not trust us on this and that she may believe we are hoodwinking her.
I agree....BIPAP is not IMO an "heroic "measure, if necessary keep hoodwinking  

When she became agitated, my sister-in-law was in there, hovering over her, touching her and bumping the bed. SIL has neurological disorder that makes her childlike and difficulty with involuntary movement. Mother has never liked her. Tolerated and behaved as though she likes her for brother's sake.
IMO get rid of SIL. IMO visitors/visiting is to make the patient feel better not the visitor. If Mom reacts adversly --PUT SIL OUT! IMO of course.

What was the scan about? If someone doesn't tolerate coming off of BIPAP , then the need for  the scan must have been pretty urgent. Are they taking her off for  any length of time .......maybe trials on a venti mask (oxygen mask)?

No one could be a better advocate for Mom at this time than you and your siblings. You are looking out for her best interests, and making her needs known when she can not. You are doing a great job. Wonderful that you can be there. Need anything I can help with just write.

P.

[Carnut]

It looks like Hiram to me. Who is the man with him?

Sure glad you are still not smoking, was kinda worried about that.

Hopefully Justin won't have to go through this kind of thing sooner than need be because of lung cancer.

[justinsmama]

Is everyone out shopping? Helllllloooooo!

[Carnut]

It looks like Hiram to me. Who is the man with him?

Sure glad you are still not smoking, was kinda worried about that.

Hopefully Justin won't have to go through this kind of thing sooner than need be because of lung cancer.

Ah, that is worrying about his mom.