Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[truthseeker2]

[truthseeker2]

Wreck,
I don't want to go 'total conspiracy theory'.  I want to apply a little logic to this whole pictures from the fish trap show.  You have 60 seconds, mind you, 60 seconds after a 'thumbs down' until that image is captured with Tim Miller and Dateline sitting right there...and no one has said a word about it until these pics show up on a website?  And we are hearing that someone is trying to make deals on these pics with networks...when Dateline should already have that very moment captured on their video...but we never saw it?  Dateline would have LOVED to have such a scoop back then, but ... nothing.

Something isn't right.

Not too hard to explain if:
On board Persistence, Dateline is filming the monitors that capture the ROV pictures in real time....Dateline crew is all about capturing the thumbs up/down sign from the diver...once done....Dateline camera stops recording....all in room react to thumbs down and no longer attentive to the ROV camera......Add to that, it would not have been uncommon for the ROV monitor operator to not focus on the continuing filming by ROV and/or even shutting down the monitor (whether intentional or not) and therefore the filming taking place 60 secs later is missed by all or most in the room....
 

The ROV was not shut down.  It was manuevered into that position and the focus indicators show it 8 feet from the focus point in the 15:40 shot.  You can also see that everyone was still looking at the monitors as shown in the pic with the time stamp 15:43.  This was on the Dateline footage.  A mere four minutes after the thumbs down.

Truthseeker, what do you think is the explanation?

I don't really know.  I makes me wonder if we are really just seeing what we 'want' to see.  Or, are those human remains, but the pic has been altered to show a different date and time stamp???  I just don't know.  I was hoping talking through the logic would help answer the question of the timing of pics we are seeing here.

[billb's daughter]

DECEMBER 30

Blonde - the photograph of the three divers was taken at 3:38 on the 30th.  Do we have a time stamp on the other cage photographs for the same day?

Yes I did these screen shots myself





All here http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.20

The ROV is controlled from someone onboard the ship.  Is it my imagination or is the angle of the camera on the ROV being set so the lens does not pan on the left side of the cage where the reamins, shoe, and skirt are located?

On the ship it's a Slanted Screen this is NOT Tim Miller hand  but he was on the ship


VIDEO http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23302471#23302581

Oh My God, Blonde.  The timestamp next to Tim Millers hand shows 13 minutes later.  Tim was reported to be off the ship on June 7th when the cage contents were taken by ALE, but he was onbaord during this film sequence.  Please someone, say it isn't so.

NOT TIM'S HAND BUT TIM WAS STANDING NEXT TO THE GUY WHO POINTED

TT2,
I'm not trying to be dense...but I don't know what you are implying. The pics don't show anything in the cage, as they don't pan over into the area that Kermit's pics did showing the potential remains....This means to me Dateline videoing didn't capture anything of significance other than a thumbs down. What am I missing?

[truthseeker2]

TT2,
I'm not trying to be dense...but I don't know what you are implying. The pics don't show anything in the cage, as they don't pan over into the area that Kermit's pics did showing the potential remains....This means to me Dateline videoing didn't capture anything of significance other than a thumbs down. What am I missing?

Okay.  I get that.  But look at the date and time stamps...the pic that appears to have captured human remains was right in the middle of the other images.  Who took it?  I was told earlier that there was only one ROV.  If someone took that with a camera why are the date and time stamps exactly like those we see on the ROV images?

Where did that image come from, who captured it and was it ever present on the monitors onboard the Persistance?

[billb's daughter]

TT2,
I'm not trying to be dense...but I don't know what you are implying. The pics don't show anything in the cage, as they don't pan over into the area that Kermit's pics did showing the potential remains....This means to me Dateline videoing didn't capture anything of significance other than a thumbs down. What am I missing?

Okay.  I get that.  But look at the date and time stamps...the pic that appears to have captured human remains was right in the middle of the other images.  Who took it?  I was told earlier that there was only one ROV.  If someone took that with a camera why are the date and time stamps exactly like those we see on the ROV images?

Where did that image come from, who captured it and was it ever present on the monitors onboard the Persistance?

OK...Can you post the pic of the remains that have the same timestamp so I can compare that with the frames you just posted? Sorry for being so difficult.
and I should have posted TS2, not TT2 

[truthseeker2]

TT2,
I'm not trying to be dense...but I don't know what you are implying. The pics don't show anything in the cage, as they don't pan over into the area that Kermit's pics did showing the potential remains....This means to me Dateline videoing didn't capture anything of significance other than a thumbs down. What am I missing?

Okay.  I get that.  But look at the date and time stamps...the pic that appears to have captured human remains was right in the middle of the other images.  Who took it?  I was told earlier that there was only one ROV.  If someone took that with a camera why are the date and time stamps exactly like those we see on the ROV images?

Where did that image come from, who captured it and was it ever present on the monitors onboard the Persistance?

Also, see where Dateline was still filming at 15:43 in the shoot where someone is pointing to the monitor.  So  at 15:39 we have a thumbs dow.  At 15:40 we have what appears to be human remains.  At 15:43 we have divers that appear to be leaving the trap.

[Magnolia]

I do remember that it was said that at the time of the
18:43 picture a large skate swam by and clouded the water.

[truthseeker2]

TT2,
I'm not trying to be dense...but I don't know what you are implying. The pics don't show anything in the cage, as they don't pan over into the area that Kermit's pics did showing the potential remains....This means to me Dateline videoing didn't capture anything of significance other than a thumbs down. What am I missing?

Okay.  I get that.  But look at the date and time stamps...the pic that appears to have captured human remains was right in the middle of the other images.  Who took it?  I was told earlier that there was only one ROV.  If someone took that with a camera why are the date and time stamps exactly like those we see on the ROV images?

Where did that image come from, who captured it and was it ever present on the monitors onboard the Persistance?

OK...Can you post the pic of the remains that have the same timestamp so I can compare that with the frames you just posted? Sorry for being so difficult.
and I should have posted TS2, not TT2 

That image is at the top of this page.  Note the date and time.

[truthseeker2]

I do remember that it was said that at the time of the
18:43 picture a large skate swam by and clouded the water.

So people were still watching the monitor at that time.  The ROV was still active.

[truthseeker2]

I do remember that it was said that at the time of the
18:43 picture a large skate swam by and clouded the water.

I took it that you meant 15:43.

[Tamikosmom]

They were right there, so close, yet it got buggered.
It should have been conclusively YES or NO, not leaving this room for this doubt. I
waffle back and forth. Everything about the search was so scientific. Everything was calculated. Except .. the actual recovery of whatever was in that cage. Does that seem strange to anyone ? So many experts on that boat,the latest in equipment. Leave it to humans with their own stupid reasons for doing this.
..
Why was Tim a liability at that point ?

Tim Miller was a liability because he had already seen the ROV image of the cage prior to the dive to retrieve the contents and ... was convinced he saw a skull ... 99% convinced.

In the beginning ... Tim Miller/TES was an asset in regards to raising funds for the endeavor that ... in actuality ... had nothing to do with justice for Natalee Holloway.  It had everything to do with a search and destroy mission to further the Aruban coverup that began on the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... Tim Miller and Kyle were pawns in a "game that was fixed" before it had even begun..

IMO

Janet

+++++++


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #137 on: Today at 04:07:13 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120

[Tamikosmom]

Life outside the computer beckoned and ... I missed Dana.

 

I will listen to it tomorrow ... I am too tired right now.

GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!!!  GOOD NIGHT ZOO GEEPERS!!!

Janet

[billb's daughter]

TT2,
I'm not trying to be dense...but I don't know what you are implying. The pics don't show anything in the cage, as they don't pan over into the area that Kermit's pics did showing the potential remains....This means to me Dateline videoing didn't capture anything of significance other than a thumbs down. What am I missing?

Okay.  I get that.  But look at the date and time stamps...the pic that appears to have captured human remains was right in the middle of the other images.  Who took it?  I was told earlier that there was only one ROV.  If someone took that with a camera why are the date and time stamps exactly like those we see on the ROV images?

Where did that image come from, who captured it and was it ever present on the monitors onboard the Persistance?

OK...Can you post the pic of the remains that have the same timestamp so I can compare that with the frames you just posted? Sorry for being so difficult.
and I should have posted TS2, not TT2 

That image is at the top of this page.  Note the date and time.

TS2,
Now I understand what you are saying..
The 15:40 pic at the top of this page is a pic directly from the ROV camera....all the others are from a screen shots (by dateline) from the on board monitors. If we assume the screen shots are real time, then why didn't dateline capture the 15:40 pic?  The only conclusion I can draw is that the dateline screen shots did not see the real time pics from the ROV. It is quite possible that the screen shots dateline captured were not real time and that a playback video was presented to dateline (via the monitors) to capture. That could be very possible if the Persistence crew was being cautious and delaying the playback by a few moments in order to prevent real time exposure of the events as they  unraveled.
I can tell you that is a real possibility (delayed playback) and most on board would not have noticed.
It is actually a smart ploy to know what is captured before you expose it......and used frequently.

[klaasend]

Nite Janet

[klaasend]

TT2,
I'm not trying to be dense...but I don't know what you are implying. The pics don't show anything in the cage, as they don't pan over into the area that Kermit's pics did showing the potential remains....This means to me Dateline videoing didn't capture anything of significance other than a thumbs down. What am I missing?

Okay.  I get that.  But look at the date and time stamps...the pic that appears to have captured human remains was right in the middle of the other images.  Who took it?  I was told earlier that there was only one ROV.  If someone took that with a camera why are the date and time stamps exactly like those we see on the ROV images?

Where did that image come from, who captured it and was it ever present on the monitors onboard the Persistance?

OK...Can you post the pic of the remains that have the same timestamp so I can compare that with the frames you just posted? Sorry for being so difficult.
and I should have posted TS2, not TT2 

That image is at the top of this page.  Note the date and time.

TS2,
Now I understand what you are saying..
The 15:40 pic at the top of this page is a pic directly from the ROV camera....all the others are from a screen shots (by dateline) from the on board monitors. If we assume the screen shots are real time, then why didn't dateline capture the 15:40 pic?  The only conclusion I can draw is that the dateline screen shots did not see the real time pics from the ROV. It is quite possible that the screen shots dateline captured were not real time and that a playback video was presented to dateline (via the monitors) to capture. That could be very possible if the Persistence crew was being cautious and delaying the playback by a few moments in order to prevent real time exposure of the events as they  unraveled.
I can tell you that is a real possibility (delayed playback) and most on board would not have noticed.
It is actually a smart ploy to know what is captured before you expose it......and used frequently.

Makes sense Billb, thanks.

[texasmom]

Very good reasoning Billb!   

[truthseeker2]

I don't know, billb.  The date and time stamps on those monitors are from the ROV, not from Datelines cameras.  That I know.  Are you suggesting that the Persistence was able to control precisely a delayed playback that eliminated that one moment when human remians may have been captured by the ROV?  Why would they do that? And then come back to the ship saying "Nothing"?

Klaas, do you know if their is a link to the Dateline program that shows this sequence?

[billb's daughter]

TT2,
I'm not trying to be dense...but I don't know what you are implying. The pics don't show anything in the cage, as they don't pan over into the area that Kermit's pics did showing the potential remains....This means to me Dateline videoing didn't capture anything of significance other than a thumbs down. What am I missing?

Okay.  I get that.  But look at the date and time stamps...the pic that appears to have captured human remains was right in the middle of the other images.  Who took it?  I was told earlier that there was only one ROV.  If someone took that with a camera why are the date and time stamps exactly like those we see on the ROV images?

Where did that image come from, who captured it and was it ever present on the monitors onboard the Persistance?

OK...Can you post the pic of the remains that have the same timestamp so I can compare that with the frames you just posted? Sorry for being so difficult.
and I should have posted TS2, not TT2 

That image is at the top of this page.  Note the date and time.

TS2,
Now I understand what you are saying..
The 15:40 pic at the top of this page is a pic directly from the ROV camera....all the others are from a screen shots (by dateline) from the on board monitors. If we assume the screen shots are real time, then why didn't dateline capture the 15:40 pic?  The only conclusion I can draw is that the dateline screen shots did not see the real time pics from the ROV. It is quite possible that the screen shots dateline captured were not real time and that a playback video was presented to dateline (via the monitors) to capture. That could be very possible if the Persistence crew was being cautious and delaying the playback by a few moments in order to prevent real time exposure of the events as they  unraveled.
I can tell you that is a real possibility (delayed playback) and most on board would not have noticed.
It is actually a smart ploy to know what is captured before you expose it......and used frequently.

Consider this:
Persistence know what they had (Tim was 99.9% sure on 12/29/07).
Dateline was allowed to video and take screen captures on 12/30/07 of the thumbs up/down event....
Tim saw realtime videos by ROV on 12/29----then the 12/30 production of screen captures...
Tim was right on 12/29...whatever transpired and who orchestrated the 12/30 screen captures for dateline may have some answering to do...
I beleive Tim was duped...and in no way was part of the scam played out for dateline.....

[klaasend]

I don't know, billb.  The date and time stamps on those monitors are from the ROV, not from Datelines cameras.  That I know.  Are you suggesting that the Persistence was able to control precisely a delayed playback that eliminated that one moment when human remians may have been captured by the ROV?  Why would they do that? And then come back to the ship saying "Nothing"?

Klaas, do you know if their is a link to the Dateline program that shows this sequence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qK95qsXq6Q

[billb's daughter]

I don't know, billb.  The date and time stamps on those monitors are from the ROV, not from Datelines cameras.  That I know.  Are you suggesting that the Persistence was able to control precisely a delayed playback that eliminated that one moment when human remians may have been captured by the ROV?  Why would they do that? And then come back to the ship saying "Nothing"?

Klaas, do you know if their is a link to the Dateline program that shows this sequence?

Good question TS2.
I haven't seen the dateline video.....are they all just screen shots, or a running video projected on the on board monitors?