Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 - 12/6/08

[SS]

Thanks for re-posting the pictures, Klaas. Just goes to show you how swift I am. I thought this was the shoe being referred to. 




But I can see the other now. Actually, it almost looks like a pair of shoes.

The sneaker is up a little and to the right of the skull.  You can see the stripes on the side. I think what you have circled in red is what we blew up and someone thought was a pelvic bone.

[wreck]

is this  correct ?

Steve Yuhas is a gay conservative radio and television personality in southern California.

Yuhas is featured in The Unrevealed Time Lies, a documentary film by award winning Dutch filmmaker, Renée Gielen. The documentary was released in Holland in July 2008 and in the United States in September 2008. Yuhas is not alone in this documentary as Natalee Holloway's father agreed to an interview as did justice ministers, former investigators and friends of the Holloway and Twitty family. The feature will be shown on American television and a preview was released that features Yuhas' participation and that of the others



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Yuhas

Yes true.  Yuhas jumped on the Natalee had it coming bandwagon early on.  He appears to hate women.

"Gay Conservative"???????????????????? 

[AZLady]

This post is also contradictory to other comments by OE.  On Feb 28 he tells us that the search team supervised the sampling of the trap.  On March 19, he says that only the Aruban sampled the trap and he was uncomfortable about the chain of custody.  So, which is it?  It can't be both.

ocean exploration: on: February 28, 2008, 10:58:40 PM   
I really didn't want to respond to all this but I feel I must. 

Please stop...and carefully think things through here.  You know who I mean.

WHAT do you think you are doing?  What do you seriously think you are going to accomplish with the pics?  Don't you even think to consider for a second that we the search team, who found the trap, supervised it's sampling, recorded that video and others... are ensuring the situation is in proper hands and being taken care of appropriately and completely?   

Oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.   The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

[SS]

Something is really very wrong with all of this.


December 25th - Kyle sees a skull on his screen and Tim Miller confrims that it looks like a skull.

December 29th - the intial five pictures of the cage were taken.  We have seen those pictures and it looks like a skull.

December 30th - ALE is photographed onboard Persistence.  Additional photographs of the cage are taken.  It's clearly a skull and a shoe.

December 30th - There is a dive to examine the cage and not touch anything.  A major network is part oF the operation.  The cage is empty.  Tim Trehen gives a thumbs down to indicate that the cage is empty.

January 7th - ALE bags the contents of the cage and everything is taken away. We've seen the photographs.


THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

Also how could the ALE divers not know they were being photographed as Mos is clearly seen looking at photographs it has taken before the dive on Jan 7?  They had to know it had that ability and so they were likely on camera.  Did ALE ask not to be photographed during their dive or something?

Anna - Kyle said that picture was taken when ALE came onboard on the 30th.  He said that they were all sitting around his computer screen.  He made that statement when someone was asking him to identify Bulldog.  Now, if ALE was looking at the trap on the screen with images being sent up by the ROV, and Tim T and Aruba divers were photographed peeking into the cage, and we have very clear photographs of the contents of the cage on the 30th, how could they possible say that the cage was empty on the 30th, yet ALE returned on the 7th to clean out what wasn't really there.  Is this when they also told Beth and Dave that there was nothing in the cage?

[Anna]

You wouldn't pay van der straaten to take a "fall."

He already has, why would anyone spend any money on "payoffs" anymore with so many guilty parties that are uncontrollable?

I think the recent activity is precisely because the money has dried up. Joran did mention the Kalpoe's suit and his share.

They are desperate and the only commodity they have is the truth about Natalee. I think the tide is turning. It's about who can make money on the truth now.

I bet if we had the one million dollar reward for information it might get interesting.

You may be right about vd Straten not getting any payoff, Frank.  My part of that was just speculation as I think parts of AHATA can come up with any amount of money due to money laundering, etc. illegal activities that the legit businesses do not effect.

But Croes is just as dirty in other areas so I tend to think this is a circular firing squad.

Another thought, we know Uncle Jan had the phone records at one times when he made that silly drawing/graphic he did.  Did he destroy the evidence then, knowing phone records are not kept permanently? 

If so, how is Rudy going to prove anything?  I just hope it is well documented somewhere other than with ALE.

[AZLady]

So, Kyle did communicate his concerns about a coverup and possible destruction of evidence to the family at least before March 20.  At least that's how I interpret this post from Private Eye.

private eye beth's brother  March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,

Kyle- I emailed Beth your concerns and have suggested to her that she contact the appropriate people on the Persistence, including yourself, and attempt to reconcile as best they can the material the crew saw recovered from the cage versus what they received. I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made, and reminded her that the press release said that the material did not match her blouse. I also pointed out that in the December 30 photo there appeared to be a skull and in the January 7, it did not look at all like a skull. But I did think I noticed a second object in one of the zip lock bags that could possibly be the object that resembled a skull, possibly. I am a little amazed that the denim looks remarkably NOT deteriorated. Mostly I was trying to pique her interest to get her to contact the appropriate people. I think Dave worked closely with the owner of the boat, so he may well have already done this. But I know Beth appreciates the heads up, as do I. You are a good man. I did tell her my main concern was that you were concerned, and that I respect and trust your judgment enough for her to investigate this. Thanks.

[wreck]

Something is really very wrong with all of this.


December 25th - Kyle sees a skull on his screen and Tim Miller confrims that it looks like a skull.

December 29th - the intial five pictures of the cage were taken.  We have seen those pictures and it looks like a skull.

December 30th - ALE is photographed onboard Persistence.  Additional photographs of the cage are taken.  It's clearly a skull and a shoe.

December 30th - There is a dive to examine the cage and not touch anything.  A major network is part oF the operation.  The cage is empty.  Tim Trehen gives a thumbs down to indicate that the cage is empty.

January 7th - ALE bags the contents of the cage and everything is taken away. We've seen the photographs.


THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

Also how could the ALE divers not know they were being photographed as Mos is clearly seen looking at photographs it has taken before the dive on Jan 7?  They had to know it had that ability and so they were likely on camera.  Did ALE ask not to be photographed during their dive or something?

Anna - Kyle said that picture was taken when ALE came onboard on the 30th.  He said that they were all sitting around his computer screen.  He made that statement when someone was asking him to identify Bulldog.  Now, if ALE was looking at the trap on the screen with images being sent up by the ROV, and Tim T and Aruba divers were photographed peeking into the cage, and we have very clear photographs of the contents of the cage on the 30th, how could they possible say that the cage was empty on the 30th, yet ALE returned on the 7th to clean out what wasn't really there.  Is this when they also told Beth and Dave that there was nothing in the cage?

I just don't see how anyone seriously looking into this could be satified that everything is Kosher with the Persistence search.

[Tamikosmom]

ATA/AHATA and their internet and media trolls twisted everything from Dutch law to transcripts to evidence. Now that we know that ATA/AHATA was running the investigation with Joran's lawyer, Paulus' business partner, Antonio Carlo sitting on the board they need to bust them along with Vander Straten and Karin Jannsen. They need to bring the whole damned house down, and drag Cohen, Vilella, Pauley and all the other traitorous Americans down with them.

Dayhiker

It is not going to happen!!

I contend that "throwing Jan van Straaten under the bus" is a well thought out Aruban plan to bring closure to the Natalee Holloway case and ... Jan van Straaten has been provided with either threats or incentives to cooperate.  In other words ... Straaten has agreed to be the sacrificial lamb.  He has agreed to take the slap on the wrist as a consequence for obstructing the investigation in the first ten days and ... allowing all crucial evidence required to bring the suspects to justice to be destroyed.

Otherwise ... there would be a domino affect that would be very far reaching in regards to all who were involved in the happenings of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... all who where  involved in the events that led up to the happenings  of the morning of May 30, 200t and ... all those within the Dutch/Aruba administration who are involved in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice and ... put her family through a H--- on Earth for 3 1/2 years.

To make this case go away ... Rudy Croes may concede to a botched investigation caused by one of Aruba's own but ... he is not about to flush Aruba down the toilet.

Janet

You got to have faith, Janet. The whole key to bringing this case down has been to put pressure on the Dutch. That has always been the case. Aruba could never police itself. Greta and Rudy are both smearing Holland, as they should. Holland needs to react with a full investigation into the corruption. They already have enough to bring Van der Straten in on obstruction charges.

Keep the faith!

Dayhiker

You and I had determined from the getgo that Hans Mos was just going through the motions  to pacify Natalee Holloways family when he had Joran, Deepak and Satish rearrested a little over one year ago.  We were told to have faith by those who posted along side of us. I now comprehend that those who told us to have faith in Hans Mos ... no longer have faith themselves.

I am sticking with my sense of logic on Aruba's agenda to bring the Natalee Holloway case to a close.  Jan vander Straaten will be Aruba's sacrificial lamb whose obstruction in the first ten days implies crucial evidence was destroyed and ... a just investigation is now impossible.  In other words ... "Case Closed!"

If implication does not start and end for Jan van der Straaten ... the domino effect will be so far reaching ... Chevez can just claim Aruba as another one of his conquests as he strives to take over the Carribean.

IMO

Janet

Janet,

Do you really mean this?  I, for one, had great faith in Hans Mos when he first arrived on the island.  He came out with guns blazing.  I believe he is very smart, and he made very strong statements about the evidence.

Then his attitude did a complete 180.

I think that is when he got the memo........this case was never meant to be solved.

Either that, or I am completely wrong about his intentions in the beginning, but I don't think so.

I have not lost faith in myself or the things I believe in, and I never will.  I believe in many things I cannot see or prove.  That's what faith is.

Helen ... I do not have faith that ANYBODY in the Aruban administration is pursing justice for Natalee Holloway.  The implication of the domino effect if Joran and Paulus van der Sloot were to be held accountable for their participation in the events that encompass the morning of May 30, 2005 is so far reaching.

However ... the planned implication of Jan van der Sloot with the understanding that there will be no domino effect may just work.   

Janet


JOHN KELLY

Holloway Attorney: 'Extraordinarily Painful'
Tuesday, December 04, 2007

KELLY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY:  I can say it with 99 percent.

<snipped>

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Disappointing, Greta. I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made. And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

[johan555]

is this  correct ?

Steve Yuhas is a gay conservative radio and television personality in southern California.

Yuhas is featured in The Unrevealed Time Lies, a documentary film by award winning Dutch filmmaker, Renée Gielen. The documentary was released in Holland in July 2008 and in the United States in September 2008. Yuhas is not alone in this documentary as Natalee Holloway's father agreed to an interview as did justice ministers, former investigators and friends of the Holloway and Twitty family. The feature will be shown on American television and a preview was released that features Yuhas' participation and that of the others



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Yuhas

Yes true.  Yuhas jumped on the Natalee had it coming bandwagon early on.  He appears to hate women.

"Gay Conservative"???????????????????? 

he examines the  Holloway fund  

[AZLady]

You wouldn't pay van der straaten to take a "fall."

He already has, why would anyone spend any money on "payoffs" anymore with so many guilty parties that are uncontrollable?

I think the recent activity is precisely because the money has dried up. Joran did mention the Kalpoe's suit and his share.

They are desperate and the only commodity they have is the truth about Natalee. I think the tide is turning. It's about who can make money on the truth now.

I bet if we had the one million dollar reward for information it might get interesting.

You may be right about vd Straten not getting any payoff, Frank.  My part of that was just speculation as I think parts of AHATA can come up with any amount of money due to money laundering, etc. illegal activities that the legit businesses do not effect.

But Croes is just as dirty in other areas so I tend to think this is a circular firing squad.

Another thought, we know Uncle Jan had the phone records at one times when he made that silly drawing/graphic he did.  Did he destroy the evidence then, knowing phone records are not kept permanently? 

If so, how is Rudy going to prove anything?  I just hope it is well documented somewhere other than with ALE.

I do think the money is drying up and that and his own exile provoked Joran into talking to Greta.  I wonder too how Rudy can make these accusations unless he has documentation to back them up.  I remember a long time ago people saying that the real power on Aruba was in the information people held against others.  PVDS was said to have lots of dirt on others, and this was the source of his power.  I don't doubt Rudy and others have learned to gather and archive information they might use in the future to wield power over others.

[wreck]

So, Kyle did communicate his concerns about a coverup and possible destruction of evidence to the family at least before March 20.  At least that's how I interpret this post from Private Eye.

private eye beth's brother  March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,

Kyle- I emailed Beth your concerns and have suggested to her that she contact the appropriate people on the Persistence, including yourself, and attempt to reconcile as best they can the material the crew saw recovered from the cage versus what they received. I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made, and reminded her that the press release said that the material did not match her blouse. I also pointed out that in the December 30 photo there appeared to be a skull and in the January 7, it did not look at all like a skull. But I did think I noticed a second object in one of the zip lock bags that could possibly be the object that resembled a skull, possibly. I am a little amazed that the denim looks remarkably NOT deteriorated. Mostly I was trying to pique her interest to get her to contact the appropriate people. I think Dave worked closely with the owner of the boat, so he may well have already done this. But I know Beth appreciates the heads up, as do I. You are a good man. I did tell her my main concern was that you were concerned, and that I respect and trust your judgment enough for her to investigate this. Thanks.

maybe Kyle had a change of heart in March after he failed to "sell" the pics in February!

[Blue Moon]

I just noticed something....

The date on the pictures of the divers by the cage says December 30th.  The divers in that picture are probably not ALE, unless ALE was diving the day that Mos and his group visited the Persistence to view Kyle's computer.

Something isn't adding up.

Kyle claimed that the divers from ALE went down and cleaned the cage on January 7th.  Who is next to that cage on December 30th?  If the divers were our divers, why didn't they take some of the evidence?  The dates on these two pictures prove that there were actually two dives down to the cage.  This is not what we were told.

GREAT CATCH!!!

That was the dive on the 30th.....they only peered into the cage, and did the thumbs down.  Tim Trahan was one of the divers.  Who is to say nothing was taken??  We don't know, we were not there....  The dive on Jan 7th was done after TM, and Dave were lured off.  Yes we were told there was 2 dives..... That one, and the one where ALE took and bagged evidence. "that was filmed".

Hotshot - where are you getting the information about the divers peeking in on the 30th, but not touching anything?  I don't recall reading that anywhere.  Could you please give us the links?  Obviously there were two dives, and it appears that two, not one dive was filmed.

There is something that doesn't make sense.  If an American diver went down on the 30th and peeked into the without touching anything, and he gave a thumbs down signal indicating that nothing was in the cage, then why did ALE return on the 7th to clean the cage of something that wasn't there on the 30th?  It was also explained to us that it wasn't a thumbs down sign, but rather an indication of low oxygen.

Ya know, I really do want to believe the Americans involved in all of this and I would like to be able to agree with everything that you are reporting that Jug says.  Why is it though that Kermit's photographs keep giving us different information and why do we keep finding discrepanices in all of the Persistence information?  I am starting to get really annoyed by the inconsistencies that keep appearing.

Was the photograph of Eduardo Mansur standing on the deck with the Tims taken on December 30th?  Was he one of the divers in the photograph dated 12/30?

My question is WHO ALL are involved in the documentary?  Too many people SEEM to be in the know yet we are discouraged from asking noticiable questions. JMO

[Anna]

Well, I still don't know what to think of any of this.

I see all kinds of stuff in the trap.  Was it ALL taken or just the few items we see in the baggies?

I don't know anything about any trap and what was in it or not.

Who were the experts who verified it was Natalee's remains?  Anyone know more about that?  I recall something about DNA but not much as I never really thought Natalee was in the trap.

Now I don't know anything about all that.

[SS]

So, Kyle did communicate his concerns about a coverup and possible destruction of evidence to the family at least before March 20.  At least that's how I interpret this post from Private Eye.

private eye beth's brother  March 20, 2008
Kyle I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made,

Kyle- I emailed Beth your concerns and have suggested to her that she contact the appropriate people on the Persistence, including yourself, and attempt to reconcile as best they can the material the crew saw recovered from the cage versus what they received. I specifically mentioned the blue denim and the fact that would be the material of which the skirt was made, and reminded her that the press release said that the material did not match her blouse. I also pointed out that in the December 30 photo there appeared to be a skull and in the January 7, it did not look at all like a skull. But I did think I noticed a second object in one of the zip lock bags that could possibly be the object that resembled a skull, possibly. I am a little amazed that the denim looks remarkably NOT deteriorated. Mostly I was trying to pique her interest to get her to contact the appropriate people. I think Dave worked closely with the owner of the boat, so he may well have already done this. But I know Beth appreciates the heads up, as do I. You are a good man. I did tell her my main concern was that you were concerned, and that I respect and trust your judgment enough for her to investigate this. Thanks.

AZ - I could be wrong, but I think this was when Kermit got involved.  Obviously PI didn't know much about denim or he wouldn't have been asking about it on the SM Forum.

[blah]

Judge sentences O.J. Simpson to 15-plus years in prison for Las Vegas hotel armed robbery, kidnapping — 61-year-old disgraced Hall of Famer will be eligible for parole after six years.

http://www.foxnews.com/

[blah]

 

[AZLady]

Well, I still don't know what to think of any of this.

I see all kinds of stuff in the trap.  Was it ALL taken or just the few items we see in the baggies?

I don't know anything about any trap and what was in it or not.

Who were the experts who verified it was Natalee's remains?  Anyone know more about that?  I recall something about DNA but not much as I never really thought Natalee was in the trap.

Now I don't know anything about all that.

Anna, this might be obvious to others, but I find it puzzling.  Why in the world are the items in the trap in zip lock bags?   The items in the trap were placed in the zip lock bags and then the bags put back into the trap.  For what purpose?  It seems to me that the items in the trap should be removed from the trap, placed into zip lock bags, and then taken to the surface for further examination.  I can't for the life of me figure out why the pics show the trap items in zip lock bags inside the trap.  This just seems so contrived.  The didn't test the items and then return them to the trap still in the baggies, did they?  Time wouldn't have allowed for this as the date is Jan. 7, the day they supposedly retrieved the items.  I just don't get why the items in the zip lock bags are photographed inside the trap. 

[Edward]

I don't know,--- there just seems to be so much "hopping" right now. Something is is not quite right.
-- Joran is spouting off -- implicating himself (but short of murder)
-- The whole Persistence "veracity" issues.
-- Revelations about Tim Miller (and Dave) being lured off during the sea cage episode
-- The corresponding appearance of "caps" on the scene
-- Revelations of new "witnesses"
-- Rudy Croes blaming Van Der Stratten
-- Kelley back on Greta with requests for arrests
-- Kermit's revelations backed with pictures and e-mails (yet being castigated)

I just have a gut feeling Aruba is STILL trying to manipulate the outcome.
 

Without a doubt.. There is something about all of this ..
It is so much larger then Paulus and Van Stratten..
Marcos is one of those things.. Where did he come from ? Why Then ? Where is he Now ?
We even see him on video with Tim..  Hit and Run.. 
Since the beginning things have happened that are so unusual, compare it with any other missing person/murder case you want.. Nothing compares to what we have seen in this case.
We alone as a group have been witness to each and every twist and turn. The whole world has no time to study this case in great detail. They only see a few things. What we have witnessed is unprecedented.
The mention of Hugo Chavez and his desire to OWN Aruba and Oduber so willing to let him have it.. This is True Fact.. Documented in news reports
It does start with Paulus and I do believe Van Stratten is there also.. Beyond that is a cover-up like no other in history. All over a missing girl named Natalee Holloway.
WHY ?

MY political theory on this I put in the back shelf.. It still sits there, as I have gone with the theory that Paulus acted alone with a group of friends to protect his son..
My stomach turns with each thought on ALL that has happened, as it does not make sense this many people could be involved..without the truth being told at some point.

[Helen Back]

Something is really very wrong with all of this.


December 25th - Kyle sees a skull on his screen and Tim Miller confrims that it looks like a skull.

December 29th - the intial five pictures of the cage were taken.  We have seen those pictures and it looks like a skull.

December 30th - ALE is photographed onboard Persistence.  Additional photographs of the cage are taken.  It's clearly a skull and a shoe.

December 30th - There is a dive to examine the cage and not touch anything.  A major network is part oF the operation.  The cage is empty.  Tim Trehen gives a thumbs down to indicate that the cage is empty.

January 7th - ALE bags the contents of the cage and everything is taken away. We've seen the photographs.


THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

Also how could the ALE divers not know they were being photographed as Mos is clearly seen looking at photographs it has taken before the dive on Jan 7?  They had to know it had that ability and so they were likely on camera.  Did ALE ask not to be photographed during their dive or something?

Anna - Kyle said that picture was taken when ALE came onboard on the 30th.  He said that they were all sitting around his computer screen.  He made that statement when someone was asking him to identify Bulldog.  Now, if ALE was looking at the trap on the screen with images being sent up by the ROV, and Tim T and Aruba divers were photographed peeking into the cage, and we have very clear photographs of the contents of the cage on the 30th, how could they possible say that the cage was empty on the 30th, yet ALE returned on the 7th to clean out what wasn't really there.  Is this when they also told Beth and Dave that there was nothing in the cage?

The best part of this is...........

If the contents of the trap are videotaped on the 30th and subsequently when there was "no evidence" or "other evidence" and that evidence was submitted to the FBI, Hans Mos's complicity in the cover up is vedeotaped.  Checkmate again.  That's gotta hurt.  He's in worse shape than Janssen.

I don't think van der Straten is going down alone.

Taped evidence is very powerful, just ask OJ.

 

Janet,

We are in total agreement that NO ONE in the Aruba administration is pursuing justice for Natalee Holloway.  On the contrary, they are complicit in the obstruction of justice.

But the cover up train has been completely de-railed!  It's gone way past containment, and Greta, John Q. and Peter DeVries will not let this go. 

I think all the posts you have brilliantly compiled demonstrate that there is video-taped evidence, known by Kyle, and Kermit to have been submitted to the family and the FBI.  I have faith that there is enough evidence to tumble the Aruba Dirty Police, and the rest of the motley crew.


We agree.  Have faith.  Keep gathering evidence.

[msmarple]

What a tangled web the cage has going! No opinions here, but I did perhaps catch something others might have missed.

ldstlou posted two good items in the previous thread, both on page 48, that I am bringing forward. All bold face added by me, plus the inserted comment in blue.

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

De wereld draait door 04-12-2008 ; Hero Brinkman about statements Rudy Croes

Host mentions two subjects he wants to talk about...two reasons to invite Hero Brinkman...asks Hero with which subject he wants to start. The Antilles?

Hero: Yes, please.

H: Well the case...

Hero: Stay there (as in: only talk about that subject).

H: Stay there?

Hero: Yes, as far as I'm concerned yes.

H: No, I will talk about the terror threaths with you as well, if you don't mind.

H: The minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, has made public now that police chief Jan van der Straten, a Dutchman, had been sleeping the first ten days on Aruba, on purpose, because he's friends with Paul van der Sloot...the father of Joran...and this way the investigation….well actually corrupt from the beginning....you could say. To be short: there wasn't a decent investigation.

Hero: Yeah.

H: What's this?

Hero: I heard this before already; I had gotten a lot of tips from the Aruban community...also from the police that this was going on.

H: To be clear; you are known for your opinion that Aruba and the Dutch Antilles are a corrupt gang. That is a clear point of view and you might get tipped to confirm this. Did you know exactly how it happened...how it's in the papers now?

Hero: They're old stories...but it's the first time a Minister admits this....but only after he got problems with that police chief who was critical concerning the police department on Aruba. But it's completely incomprehensible that he's coming out with this after all those years.

H: That man knew about this all these years!

Hero: Yeah, apparently so.

H: So he's just as corrupt as...

Hero: Well, he just went through an investigation concerning corruption...and I'm not sure there is a verdict about that already...and this is really not that abnormal in Aruba - the Antilles.

H: Does this strengthen your opinion nothing is going right there?

Hero: It's no good there; definitely.

H: So in that way I almost have to congratulate you...you are right.

Hero: No, no... Actually you shouldn't congratulate any Dutchman that pays taxes but actually you should condole them. It is awful that we send millions and millions to those islands and every time it turns out it's a banana republic.

H: What are we going to do about it?

Hero: Sell it.

H: Sell?

Hero: Ah...yeah.

Other guest: That's a good one.

Hero: If there's money to be get out of it....No of course (as in: of course we're not going to sell it).

Hero: We have to pursue a path where those islands become completely independent from the Netherlands. The articles of association has to change completely; new articles of associaton have to be formed in a manner that the island can become completely independent.

H: This case of Natalee Holloway, which has become a case with mythical proportions by now by Peter R. de Vries.....should we do something about that?

Hero: Yes, I do think so. I think we need to get to the bottom of it.

H: How are we going to do this?

Hero: I've requested a letter from the Ministry, because of the statements from Rudy Croes I want to know what the government thinks about this....if it's correct. If the accusations of Minister Croes are correct; for example that a Dutch Minister requested 3 years ago that the fact that Joran was a Dutchman should be played down...let's..

H: Who could that have been? He didn't say which Minister...that can only be one though, right?

Hero: I'm going to ask the government...and they will surely answer me.

H: Who do you think it is?

Hero: I'm not going to tell you that.

H: Don't you think it's Hirsch Ballin? {I *think* this *might* be that elusive name that Jossy dropped on Greta's show - msmarple}

Hero: I think a lot..and I might think  the same as you but I'm not going to say (what and the way he said it: he thinks it's Hirsch Ballin...MO)

H: A parliamentary investigation...you mentioned that before as well when it's about the Antilles & Aruba...you're still thinking about that?

Hero: Well, look...I just want to get to the bottom of this…but first we'll have a debate that will come from the letter I sent to the Ministry....If I don't get answers then I think we need to have a parliamentary investigation.

H: What do you think of the case Joran van der Sloot? We've heard so many stories by now...Peter R. de Vries did his best.

Hero: Yes, absolutely.

H: What do you think? Where is Natalee Holloway?

Hero: I'm afraid she's in the ocean.

H: Then the theory of Peter R. de Vries...the car conversations are correct according to you?

Hero: Uhmm..yeah, I do think so. But again, we can think about what possibly happened.....

H: Yeah...I was just curious what you think happened.

Hero: Well, that is what I think. But that's not really important...there has to come an investigation. I would like the Dutch government to send the National Police Internal Investigations Department to Aruba; to at least investigate the claims of Minister Croes. If that's true it could give a new opening in this awful case.

H: That the father is involved as well?

Hero: Yes. That is a good possibility.

Other guest: Then you also get that this police chief Van der Straten is also involved then...in fact you get a whole new cesspool.

Hero: Yeah, but again...it's the Antilles...and the Antilles are on big cesspool.

Other guest: that's why I think it should stay with us....in some ways it's a good soap...every time I hear stories about that banana republic there...in the end we are responsible for it......you can't say: sell it.....we need to get rid of it. You can't make them independent.

Hero: You can make it independent.

Other guest: ....(can't hear what he says)

Hero: I am convinced, if you don't give the people money and say...well you have a lot of debt...(Hero gets interrupted by the other guest a bit...can't hear what he's saying)...we are willing to invest 2 billion...because that's what we're planning to do; 2,5 billion we are going to invest....we are willing to do that but in the end you need to be completely independent from the Netherlands....than they will go along with that. Holland sold itself way to cheap....that's the complete story.

* * *

… plus this from amigoe.com - I am a bit surprised that it was published:

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_50147.php

Holloway-case messed up by nepotism
4 Dec, 2008, 10:08 (GMT -04:00)


ORANJESTAD -- Jan van der Straten has messed up the investigation in the first ten days after it got out that the American teenager Natalee Holloway had disappeared. He helped his 'friend' Paul van der Sloot to protect his suspected son Joran.


Minister Rudy Croes of Justice speaks frankly about the initial stage of the Natalee Holloway investigation.

Justice-minister Rudy Croes says this now that he feels attacked by the former chief of police and the first investigation leader of the case. Van der Straten has criticized certain aspects of the Police Corps (KPA) earlier this week. "He has also compared our Guarda Nos Costa with a politically driven group à la Chávez (Venezuelan president)", says Croes. "He is an activist of the opposition party AVP, that's why, but he forgets that it is the Natalee Holloway-case that was driven by favouritism."

Wait till retirement
"I actually wanted to wait till my retirement next year to bring this into the open", continues the minister. "But the time has come to tell the truth. When the case came to light, I heard Van der Straten say literally: 'I can't let this happen to my friend Paul'. And then during the first ten days, there were heavy telephone traffic between him and Paul van der Sloot."

According to Croes, Van der Straten has perhaps consciously deployed the so-called flexiteam after the disappearance of Natalee. "He said in May 2005: 'I can solve this with my flexiteam'. As everybody knows, the flexiteam was a team that was put into action when the regular police team was over-occupied; for example during carnival.
A detective could be included in the team, but it was no police-team that was capable of doing an investigation. Why didn't he call in the taya-team (police officers with a lot of expertise and experience – red.)?"

There are more things that went wrong. "Why was a beach-bum accused at that time, who has been a choller before? He had supposedly done it, while internally it was known that he hadn't done it. Very special is also the fact that the Dutch language was used during Joran's interrogation, while he is fluent in Papiamento, same as our detective. Our people could have done their work much better if the conversations were done in their own language. Why was he so privileged? Simply because it were 'Dutch-friends'; all three of them: Joran, Paul, and Jan. Don't forget that a Dutch minister had asked me at that time not to mention that Joran is a European Dutch citizen. I won't say who this person is, but if by any chance I have to mention his name, I definitely will. We felt abandoned by the Netherlands when Aruba was so devastated by the case. I have told this to the Dutch premier Balkenende, state secretary Bijleveld (Kingdom Relations), and minister Hirsch-Ballin (Justice). But until now, everybody has remained quit and has let the world besmear Aruba's name. They abandoned us and let us suffer."

Croes is of the opinion that the solving of the case is with the three Dutchmen Van der Straten and Paul and Joran van der Sloot. He says that a new investigation team must come that consists of Arubans, Antilleans, and Americans. "Why did it never occur to them to remove Jan van der Straten from his position after those ten ill-bred days? In the case of Marlies van der Kouwe in Bonaire, police officers were taken off the case because they have failed. I challenge Van der Straten and Paul van der Sloot to come up with clarifications, so that Aruba's name can be cleared from this mess (porkeria).