Natalee Case Discussion #802 2/21/09 - 2/25/09

[Keepthefaith]

Would someone please post a picture of this John Silvetti?Is it one of these guys? TIA

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

I do not see Silvetti in any pic. The author of the journal (Hodges) is shown with Tim Miller. The author only mentions the Silvetti group as the owner of the Persistence.

This one?http://www.blogvandaag.nl/data/media//db_images/big/38171.jpg

Yes.

http://www.blogvandaag.nl/data/media//db_images/big/38171.jpg

I just noticed in that pic -- the Persistence is flying the Aruban flag. Is that proper for an American ship???

Great eyes Wreck!Onw would think you'd be flying the American flag?

I don't like seeing the aruba flag on the persistence, but...
It is traditionally accepted to fly the Host nation's flag while in there territorial waters.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/Seaflags/customs/law.html#foreign

Foreign Flags on U.S. Ships
Courtesy Ensigns

Many countries require either as a matter law or of customary practice that foreign vessels in their territorial waters display the host country's flag.  This flag is known as a "courtesy ensign."  When a host country has a merchant ensign that differs from its national flag used ashore, it is the merchant ensign that is displayed as the courtesy ensign.

Yes it is BillB.Even then i would have peed on it before i put it up!

[Tamikosmom]

I don't like seeing the aruba flag on the persistence, but...
It is traditionally accepted to fly the Host nation's flag while in there territorial waters.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/Seaflags/customs/law.html#foreign

Foreign Flags on U.S. Ships
Courtesy Ensigns

Many countries require either as a matter law or of customary practice that foreign vessels in their territorial waters display the host country's flag.  This flag is known as a "courtesy ensign."  When a host country has a merchant ensign that differs from its national flag used ashore, it is the merchant ensign that is displayed as the courtesy ensign.

Hi billb

You are correct.  When hubby takes our boat into American waters the American flag flies along with the Canadian flag.  There is not one American who see our boat does not recognize that proud Canadians are on board.

Janet

[wreck]

Would someone please post a picture of this John Silvetti?Is it one of these guys? TIA

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

I do not see Silvetti in any pic. The author of the journal (Hodges) is shown with Tim Miller. The author only mentions the Silvetti group as the owner of the Persistence.

This one?http://www.blogvandaag.nl/data/media//db_images/big/38171.jpg

Yes.

http://www.blogvandaag.nl/data/media//db_images/big/38171.jpg

I just noticed in that pic -- the Persistence is flying the Aruban flag. Is that proper for an American ship???

Great eyes Wreck!Onw would think you'd be flying the American flag?

I don't like seeing the aruba flag on the persistence, but...
It is traditionally accepted to fly the Host nation's flag while in there territorial waters.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/Seaflags/customs/law.html#foreign

Foreign Flags on U.S. Ships
Courtesy Ensigns

Many countries require either as a matter law or of customary practice that foreign vessels in their territorial waters display the host country's flag.  This flag is known as a "courtesy ensign."  When a host country has a merchant ensign that differs from its national flag used ashore, it is the merchant ensign that is displayed as the courtesy ensign.

From that same page:

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

[BUCKSHOT]

Would someone please post a picture of this John Silvetti?Is it one of these guys? TIA

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

I do not see Silvetti in any pic. The author of the journal (Hodges) is shown with Tim Miller. The author only mentions the Silvetti group as the owner of the Persistence.

This one?http://www.blogvandaag.nl/data/media//db_images/big/38171.jpg

Yes.

http://www.blogvandaag.nl/data/media//db_images/big/38171.jpg

I just noticed in that pic -- the Persistence is flying the Aruban flag. Is that proper for an American ship???

Great eyes Wreck!Onw would think you'd be flying the American flag?

I don't like seeing the aruba flag on the persistence, but...
It is traditionally accepted to fly the Host nation's flag while in there territorial waters.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/Seaflags/customs/law.html#foreign

Foreign Flags on U.S. Ships
Courtesy Ensigns

Many countries require either as a matter law or of customary practice that foreign vessels in their territorial waters display the host country's flag.  This flag is known as a "courtesy ensign."  When a host country has a merchant ensign that differs from its national flag used ashore, it is the merchant ensign that is displayed as the courtesy ensign.

Yes it is BillB.Even then i would have peed on it before i put it up!

Then it could have AIRED out in Aruba's famous tradewinds...
 

[wreck]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

[/color]

[billb's daughter]

Would someone please post a picture of this John Silvetti?Is it one of these guys? TIA

http://forensicthoughtprints.com/aruba/default.html

I do not see Silvetti in any pic. The author of the journal (Hodges) is shown with Tim Miller. The author only mentions the Silvetti group as the owner of the Persistence.

This one?http://www.blogvandaag.nl/data/media//db_images/big/38171.jpg

Yes.

http://www.blogvandaag.nl/data/media//db_images/big/38171.jpg

I just noticed in that pic -- the Persistence is flying the Aruban flag. Is that proper for an American ship???

Great eyes Wreck!Onw would think you'd be flying the American flag?

I don't like seeing the aruba flag on the persistence, but...
It is traditionally accepted to fly the Host nation's flag while in there territorial waters.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeohzt4/Seaflags/customs/law.html#foreign

Foreign Flags on U.S. Ships
Courtesy Ensigns

Many countries require either as a matter law or of customary practice that foreign vessels in their territorial waters display the host country's flag.  This flag is known as a "courtesy ensign."  When a host country has a merchant ensign that differs from its national flag used ashore, it is the merchant ensign that is displayed as the courtesy ensign.

From that same page:

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

Wreck,
At the risk of displaying my addiction once again (stackaholism  )
I noted what you just posted as part of the link I posted. I wasn't trying to be misleading; the persistence does not fall into the category of warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels....
I would suspect that the US Flag is displayed above the aruban flag, probably higher up than the picture shows...
Still makes me mad though that persistence displayed the aruban flag...tradition be damned in this case...

[billb's daughter]

Sorry if I got you all off topic....carry on please...

[wreck]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

[billb's daughter]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

No worries....I just think persistence was following a tradition wrt flying the aruban flag, in the spirit of cooperation...mhoo
I still don't endorse it in this case.....

[wreck]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

No worries....I just think persistence was following a tradition wrt flying the aruban flag, in the spirit of cooperation...mhoo
I still don't endorse it in this case.....

Now I might be back on your side! Is the Persistence a "public vessel" or perhaps a "private vessel"? Is a cruise ship a "public vehicle" or a "private vehicle"?? 

[wreck]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

No worries....I just think persistence was following a tradition wrt flying the aruban flag, in the spirit of cooperation...mhoo
I still don't endorse it in this case.....

Now I might be back on your side! Is the Persistence a "public vessel" or perhaps a "private vessel"? Is a cruise ship a "public vehicle" or a "private vehicle"?? 

I mean't "Vessel" instead of "vehicle" 

[billb's daughter]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

No worries....I just think persistence was following a tradition wrt flying the aruban flag, in the spirit of cooperation...mhoo
I still don't endorse it in this case.....

Now I might be back on your side! Is the Persistence a "public vessel" or perhaps a "private vessel"? Is a cruise ship a "public vehicle" or a "private vehicle"?? 

US Public vessel is owned by, or operated by, US govt...warships, coast guard, merchant marines...
I believe persistence is a "private vessel" and that's why I pulled out the link...

[Magnolia]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

No worries....I just think persistence was following a tradition wrt flying the aruban flag, in the spirit of cooperation...mhoo
I still don't endorse it in this case.....

Now I might be back on your side! Is the Persistence a "public vessel" or perhaps a "private vessel"? Is a cruise ship a "public vehicle" or a "private vehicle"?? 

US Public vessel is owned by, or operated by, US govt...warships, coast guard, merchant marines...
I believe persistence is a "private vessel" and that's why I pulled out the link...

The Persistence is a privately owned Research Vessel.

[wreck]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

No worries....I just think persistence was following a tradition wrt flying the aruban flag, in the spirit of cooperation...mhoo
I still don't endorse it in this case.....

Now I might be back on your side! Is the Persistence a "public vessel" or perhaps a "private vessel"? Is a cruise ship a "public vehicle" or a "private vehicle"?? 

US Public vessel is owned by, or operated by, US govt...warships, coast guard, merchant marines...
I believe persistence is a "private vessel" and that's why I pulled out the link...

Well, I don't like it either!! So, US owned cruise ships fly foreign flags in each different port they go to???

[wreck]

Did the SS Minnow have to fly a Gilligan flag? 

[Magnolia]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

No worries....I just think persistence was following a tradition wrt flying the aruban flag, in the spirit of cooperation...mhoo
I still don't endorse it in this case.....

Now I might be back on your side! Is the Persistence a "public vessel" or perhaps a "private vessel"? Is a cruise ship a "public vehicle" or a "private vehicle"?? 

US Public vessel is owned by, or operated by, US govt...warships, coast guard, merchant marines...
I believe persistence is a "private vessel" and that's why I pulled out the link...

Well, I don't like it either!! So, US owned cruise ships fly foreign flags in each different port they go to???

The Persistence should have flown the Skull and Crossbones.

[billb's daughter]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

No worries....I just think persistence was following a tradition wrt flying the aruban flag, in the spirit of cooperation...mhoo
I still don't endorse it in this case.....

Now I might be back on your side! Is the Persistence a "public vessel" or perhaps a "private vessel"? Is a cruise ship a "public vehicle" or a "private vehicle"?? 

US Public vessel is owned by, or operated by, US govt...warships, coast guard, merchant marines...
I believe persistence is a "private vessel" and that's why I pulled out the link...

Well, I don't like it either!! So, US owned cruise ships fly foreign flags in each different port they go to???

I don't like it either in the persistence case under the circumstances that are emerging regarding the principles' roles in possibly denying Justice for Natalee and the return of her remains to her family.
Us owned cruise ships are considered private vessels, as they are not owned by, nor operated by US govt personnel.

[wreck]

U.S. policy is that public vessels, including warships as well as civilian-manned ships belonging to the Military Sealift Command and other U.S. government vessels, enjoy sovereign immune status, that they are exempt from the jurisdiction of any other state.  Because complying with a coastal state's regulations purporting to require the display of its flag in its waters or ports could be construed as an admission that the U.S. public vessel is subject to the coastal state's jurisdiction, all U.S. public vessels are forbidden from flying courtesy ensigns.

I respectfully disagree -- I read this as pertaining to all US public vessels.

No worries....I just think persistence was following a tradition wrt flying the aruban flag, in the spirit of cooperation...mhoo
I still don't endorse it in this case.....

Now I might be back on your side! Is the Persistence a "public vessel" or perhaps a "private vessel"? Is a cruise ship a "public vehicle" or a "private vehicle"?? 

US Public vessel is owned by, or operated by, US govt...warships, coast guard, merchant marines...
I believe persistence is a "private vessel" and that's why I pulled out the link...

Well, I don't like it either!! So, US owned cruise ships fly foreign flags in each different port they go to???

The Persistence should have flown the Skull and Crossbones.

good one! The "Jolly Roger"

[always 1]

Did the SS Minnow have to fly a Gilligan flag? 

     

[Tamikosmom]

Tamikosmom -

We(I) had better join stackaholics anonymous...

BUCKSHOT

After I have gone through the seven step program in regards to my addiction to the Natalee Holloway case ... I will then join ya.

First things first.

 

Janet