Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #36 11/21/10 - 12/05/10

[monchichi]

You have your opinons... glad you do, but I don't have opinions.  I trust LE with my heart that they know who did this, and will proceed to a conviction.  They - LE, have all the evidence that has not been released, god bless them: They are working 24/7 on this case.

That's terrific. But if they had one scintilla of evidence someone would have been arrested by now. If it makes you feel better that they are keeping all this death row type evidence under lock and key - well, that's your prerogative.

lastly; if they had evidence - this case wouldn't be on a fact finding mission in front of a grand jury.

  Rob, great point......I know you can prosecute successfully without a body so I am holding out hope (but its waning) that they have enough to put whomever is involved in any way in prison for life, and I really thought after the media blitz starting with the Dateline epsiode about 2 weeks ago they were much closer, but now I am not so sure. Granted, is I use KISS (keep it simple stupid), Terri did it, and I think she's definitely involved but it seems if she had done this there would be more direct evidence, and it's starting to remind me of the HaLeigh Cumming's case and the fact that is still unsolved and HaLeigh has never been found make me worry about this case too.

to plan an abduction from a school where a child is presumably killed would take months and months of planning. You would also have to take into account things that would occur and there would be no plan for how to deal with those items. Things that would arise - such as; an unexpected sighting, bumping into someone who knew you, getting caught in the act, just to name a few. I do admit - it's hard to understand how she went to run all these errands AFTER abducting Kyron and THEN goes to Sauvie and does whatever it is that's being alleged. Wouldn't she just go to Sauvie from the school?

If you are planning to abduct a child, and this has been said many times - there are better places than a school. Not only that - but Terri didn't even need to take him to school to do something dastardly to him. If she did this, and maybe she did - she would have to spend just about every waking second planning, planning and more planning, which of course would cutting into her drinking, falling down drunk and sleeping on the couch bombed out of her gourd. I guess she is an over-achiever. Add in all her chores, like gutter cleaning, house work, watching all of the kids, tending to a baby, yard work - I wonder when all this planning took place? Plus she was able to used her wily ways to hoodwink a possible accomplice into this mess. She should have just written crime novels.

With KISS - it's easier to acknowledge that a possible abductor got into the school and went unnoticed and it was a crime of opportunity. Or the abductor is in the school and no need to sneak in or out.

Why would she not have an aliby for the time it is being assumed she took Kyron to Sauvie? She says during that time she drove the baby around. I would think after all of the planning she would come up with the best story for this time frame. She left herself open....Another reason I sit on the fence.

I think that if she did something with Kyron, she thought the receipt would cover her.  Maybe she didn't think they would care about the rest of the day because she had evidence that she'd gone to FM right after she "dropped him off".  She then had to come up with something to fill in that time frame.  MOO.

PS  I know this has been discussed before, but I still don't believe someone would drive around with a fussy baby, and then, when that baby did not go to sleep they would then take the fussy baby to the gym daycare for an hour.  Sorry, I think most people would just take the baby home and try to make her comfortable.

Also, if she was guilty, she couldn't come up with an iron-clad alibi because all she could have said would be she was with the baby.  She wouldn't be able to come up with a better alibi because she would need to have witnesses.  Her options would only be "I drove the baby around" or "I went home with the baby".  MOO.

First off, people drive fussy babies around everyday and do not kill a child. Perhaps Kiara calmed down enough to take her to the gym. I don't see that as being hinky, I just don't.
 Now as for the aliby. She sets herself up with her aliby by not having an alibi. She was miles away from Sauvie why did she go back there to only dump Kyron when there are miles and miles of wooded area she could have taken him to? but she choose to take Kyron to an area where people are at? To me it doesn't look like that remote of an area. I think it is easier for me to consider she didn't drop Kyron off at Sauvie and she dumped him in the area between the store and the school. Then she drives Kiara around to not calm the baby but to calm herself. That I can see happening, although I am not putting money down on the plan as we know it. To me it doesn't make sense and is too risky.

Perhaps Terri did get the medicine for Kiara, gave it to her, and drove her around waiting for the medicine to take effect and Kiara to settle down and maybe go to sleep...then Terri decided it was okay to go to the gym.  Fussy baby without medicine, hopefully, was helped with her ear ache once she got the medicine.

IIRC, the email said she drove around trying to get Kitty to sleep but "No Go, so off to the gym" or something like that.  I am not saying that she didn't do that, just that it does seem hinky to me, and I realize some disagree with me and that is fine. 

It seems hinky to me too. She has to be a diabolical sociopath to harm Kyron, dispose of his body and then flit off to the gym. All with Kiara in tow! I am sure it could happen, but I just don't see Terri as some sort of mastermind. She seems to pick friends that are younger, not very literate and obviously extremely loyal. That tells me that she is very insecure. Add alcohol to that mix and I just don't see her pulling this off alone. I am more inclined to believe that she did not get her hands dirty. I think he was passed on to someone else. I think the person that Kyron was passed on to would have to be someone very smart and someone that Terri looked up to and had complete trust in. I think Terri is much too cocky to have entrusted this task to someone that she feels might give her up. She and DeDe and the rest of that nutty bag of nitwits seem so dang smug that it makes me ill. An innocent child is still missing! Who acts smug under those circumstances? REALLY!

Very hinky to me also, but what makes me think she is guilty is the fact she isn't trying to see Kiara......that is completely unnatural, now maybe it's some play by Houze but nevertheless I'd be screaming crazy like a rabid dog to see my child

Exactly Islandmonkey! Especially at Kiara's age! They are so young and vulnerable. I would be going completely insane! I could not even go somewhere overnight when my daughter was that age unless she was with me. Can you imagine all of this time? It sure makes you think she has ice in those veins!

Yes, to me it appears that she's barely made any attempt at all to even have visitation with Kiara, let alone custody.  It isn't what you would expect from an innocent person.  MOO.

[klaasend]

Please let's stop replying and making such a huge quote stack, it's getting rediculous

[klaasend]

That is because Terri is not an innocent person IMO

[Lazydog1]

That is because Terri is not an innocent person IMO

I agree that Terri is not an innocent person. I'm just not certain to what extent she is guilty. The fact that Her attnys won't let her speak and that she will take the 5th speaks volumes.  How can an innocent person incriminate themself?

I also find it very sad that just because a person was at that school that day they are considered a POI by some. Even though they were vetted by LE and seemingly cleared. 

I am truly shocked at some of the things that are said on this forum. For some to say that LE has tunnel vision or that they are moving too slow. Lets not forget they are supposed to hold press conferences and share all the evidence with the public. That would certainly make life for Houze a lot simpler. He could then mount an extravagant case to defend TH. I don't care what evidence they have gathered. What I do care about is they use it when the time is right to bring justice for what has happened to Kyron.

What I want to see is Kyron to be found. I want him brought home. Right now we don't  know if he is deceased or being held somewhere.

Everyone has a right to their opinion. That is how it should be in our Country. To attack a person on a public forum just because they were present at the school that day is sad. To even use their name over and over. Imagine researching your Grandparents or parents and when you type in their name you find all these accusations that have been made. When in reality they had nothing to do with any of it but being at the wrong place when something horrible happened.  Personally I know who is being referred to when I see GK, LS, LE, TH, KH, DY, TY, BP just to name some of those being discussed here. Maybe it would be nice if everyone could go back to using those initials.

JMO

May God be watching over our little Frogman and may he soon be located and brought home to those who love him.

[no rose colored glasses]

Reality and sad part is that in many, many cases, people are dragged through the mud and they didn't do anything. I could name a few where people were talked badly about and they didn't disappear or kill anyone.

[Monkey King]

Terri may or may not be an inncoent person, however, if the GJ and the police, DA can't figure out what she's guilty of- and they have the "alleged facts", how are we supposed to figure it out and state emphatically "Terri's GUILTY!!"?

Also, wasn't it Dave Stensen who said he saw Kyron at the front of the school by the flower beds at approx 9am??

[no rose colored glasses]

Terri may or may not be an inncoent person, however, if the GJ and the police, DA can't figure out what she's guilty of- and they have the "alleged facts", how are we supposed to figure it out and state emphatically "Terri's GUILTY!!"?

Also, wasn't it Dave Stensen who said he saw Kyron at the front of the school by the flower beds at approx 9am??

I think he said he saw some kids, but don't think he knew which kids were by the flower beds, though I could be wrong.

[Lazydog1]

Terri may or may not be an inncoent person, however, if the GJ and the police, DA can't figure out what she's guilty of- and they have the "alleged facts", how are we supposed to figure it out and state emphatically "Terri's GUILTY!!"?

Also, wasn't it Dave Stensen who said he saw Kyron at the front of the school by the flower beds at approx 9am??

No he stated he saw kids come out the back door and look at the plants in the raised flower beds. He never said he saw Kyron. Here is the link.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/100582364.html

[hellokitty]

 

As far as alcoholics go, there have been many famous alcoholics in important positions that apparently were able to do their jobs.

There are many CEO's that are alcoholics. 

Did TH do this alone?  Who knows.  But it seems like a bit of a pattern that we have seen that she is willing to engage others in criminal behaviot.  The LS with an MFH and M Cook to break the RO.

[sebastian]

As far as alcoholics go, there have been many famous alcoholics in important positions that apparently were able to do their jobs.

There are many CEO's that are alcoholics. 

Did TH do this alone?  Who knows.  But it seems like a bit of a pattern that we have seen that she is willing to engage others in criminal behaviot.  The LS with an MFH and M Cook to break the RO.

Hi Hello Kitty,
I bolded part of your post above. I cannot believe that Terri still has those that are by her side after all of this. It is another one of those things that make me go, "WTH"! I have some wonderful lifetime loyal friends. Friends that I have been friends with since high school and even before. If I was in Terri's shoes and I clammed up and hired an attorney, these friends of mine would be horrified at my behavior. They would cut me off and rightfully so! I just don't get it at all. I cannot understand these women and their snarkiness and smugness when a child, an innocent child is missing. It is beyond mind boggling!

[monchichi]

 Sorry for all of the quote stacks above, not sure why I didn't realize it was that bad!

[islandmonkey]

Sorry for all of the quote stacks above, not sure why I didn't realize it was that bad!

I did the same thing mochichi several times, then I remembered the marshellow man reference from another gigantic quotestack and stopped, but I am guilty not realizing it until about my 7th reply

On another topic, wrt Staton telling the press that we'd be shocked and they knew things they wished they didn't know I have been wondering a long time what would shock us anymore and I am now considering the possibility that maybe Kyron was a victim of child pornography and explotation. I think when he was so upset about returning back to Portland after visiting Medford it could be due to something along those lines instead of the norm shared custody visits when the non custodial parent is sometimes what I call a disney dad/mom. Not in a bad way but I remember friends who went from one home to the other and the home of the non custodial parent was more often the "fun" home since the chores, homework and discipline issues are generally the day to day issues of the custodial parent and many times the child wants to stay in the "fun" home IYKWIM. But, in sexual abuse cases one of the strongest indicators something is wrong is a childs fear of a specific place or person, so that makes me wonder if Terri was maybe drugging him and allowing him to be around unsavory friends/criminals for $$, they got what they wanted as in child porn or worse and she rec'd money. Since her 30,000 had been spent, is it possible she needed another way to pay for her habits? I know it sounds crazy but I am just tossing out ideas why Kyron's fear or being very upset about returning to Portland seems to have escalated in the months leading up to his disappearance?

Maybe she needed money for illegal steroids, drugs, alcohol....and he was used as a means to an end for her needs. Also, I have asked this before but does anyone know if roids build up over time even if someone has stopped using them? I know a few ppl that used them and when they were on them their anger/frustration was explosive, so if they have a cumulative effect could roid rage have been part of her increasing hatred towards Kyron/Kaine/Desiree so much that she decided to punish them all?

Sorry for repeating the same questions over and over, I just haven't rec'd any answers or feedback so thought I'd try again.

[no rose colored glasses]

From IM's post   
On another topic, wrt Staton telling the press that we'd be shocked and they knew things they wished they didn't know I have been wondering a long time what would shock us anymore and I am now considering the possibility that maybe Kyron was a victim of child pornography and explotation.    This has always bothered me, and that is what I was thinking about child pornography also  Don't know what else there would be that would be so shocking.

[MuffyBee]

Sorry for all of the quote stacks above, not sure why I didn't realize it was that bad!

I did the same thing mochichi several times, then I remembered the marshellow man reference from another gigantic quotestack and stopped, but I am guilty not realizing it until about my 7th reply
 

You still remember that Islandmonkey?    

[Patricia Mocha Latte]

Question.
Is it normal day to day operations for grounds maintenance to be done during school hours? On days when an open campus science fair is schedualed?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013563-504083.html

"It seemed like just a pretty normal day," Stensen told the station."

I would think that with the science fair going on and what not that there would be more traffic to contend with than usual.

[no rose colored glasses]

Question.
Is it normal day to day operations for grounds maintenance to be done during school hours? On days when an open campus science fair is schedualed?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013563-504083.html

"It seemed like just a pretty normal day," Stensen told the station."

I would think that with the science fair going on and what not that there would be more traffic to contend with than usual.

Interesting question, maybe the grounds keeper is on a tight schedule through the week, and they have to do their work even if there is a scheduled fair going on?

[BabsKats]

Suppose the possiblity is there, say a perv that was paying TH for services rendered and perhaps perv wanted him for his own.  Terri knows that Ky is possibly safe (yuck) but the whole story would come out if she told who had Ky.

Could see her having Ky go out the back door  perhaps telling him that he had forgotten something in the truck and that she would drive around back to give it to him, instead the perv was waiting to pick him up?  Imagine anything is possible in this crazy case!

[no rose colored glasses]

Suppose the possiblity is there, say a perv that was paying TH for services rendered and perhaps perv wanted him for his own.  Terri knows that Ky is possibly safe (yuck) but the whole story would come out if she told who had Ky.

Could see her having Ky go out the back door  perhaps telling him that he had forgotten something in the truck and that she would drive around back to give it to him, instead the perv was waiting to pick him up?  Imagine anything is possible in this crazy case!

I have thought something similar    Nothing would surprise me.

[Patricia Mocha Latte]

Interesting question, maybe the grounds keeper is on a tight schedule through the week, and they have to do their work even if there is a scheduled fair going on?
[/quote]

(I snipped so as not to stack quotes. I hope it works out ok.)

I've never seen groundskeepers doing grounds maintenance (mowing lawns etc...) during school hours at any elementary, Jr. High or Highschool for that matter.
I have seen it being done during class hours at college campuses only. (Football fields being mowed etc...)

[Patricia Mocha Latte]

Someone had to have taken Kyron away from the school. If Kyron had simply wandered off campus the sniffer dogs would have picked up his scent.
That being said, Kyron had to have been taken off school grounds in some type of vehicle.
We know that LE had taken KH's white truck where the truck was then most likely gone over and through with a fine tooth comb in searching for evidence.

What other vehicles have been checked out be LE?