Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

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Equissearch guy on Nancy Grace:

Dogs got somewhat of an indication there may be something there.

(lake near vsS home)

I think he just called Nancy, "Greta"

Hit on lake.

Ok, so finally some confirmation by Fox.  I just don't get why they didn't say something earlier.

Did they say if they were still searching or if nothing has been found?

Confirmation was from CNN

He said "lake not cleared yet"...
What does that mean?

And, it made it clear the dogs can be wrong!!!  And, they are trained to find HUMAN remains.

OK..hit on lake...are theystill searching? did it not pan out? GRRRRR

From what I heard, they are still searching that location. :shock:

Pray the dogs find her.  They have amazing abilities.

No, I don't think they've searched it all yet.
Or, whatever "not cleared yet" means!

What a cool guy.

I think that it means that it was too windy for any follow up work with the dogs.  They will resume when things calm down.  But this is only my guess.

OK--trying to wait as long as I can-but husband on his way home and we have to run an erand(for him to take me away from my computer-HUH) I'll get in as much as I can

Ok here it is, 1st talking to ES team

They r discouraged b/c of area to cover
Search in water has been less explored
Land search is exhauting them
searching lakes, windy beaches, other body of water
Looking for brown flip flops, jean skirt and tank top-last known that NH was wearing
Found items-but not NH's
The dogs are getting tired esp with tough terrain
ES team will not stop search besides rough conditions

BHT with Spiritual Advisor-David Saunders(sp?):

Believes PVDS is still not telling truth
She is devestated about release and a blow to family
Feels all their work-no help
Feels PVDS has info that can share to get resolution
She had confirmation that he knows info to find NH

The advisor-David Saunders:
Feels new search people needed
Thanks Aruba govt, but the release of PVDS-a failed judge who allows underage drinving drinking-not good

That was everything

Why HASN'T the US Gov stepped in?  We have enough power to put the heat on them in some way!!

The Aruban LE has turned this into a 3 ring circus as far as I see.  And we are standing by and putting up with it.  

And I thought early on there should be no boycott on Aruba.  Now I am not so sure.  Hit them in the wallet where it really hurts!!!

Enough is enough!!!

I thought he said  that there was "something" there.  They just hadn't found it yet.

They are going back to the lake tomorrow.  He was very careful with his words, as though he didn't want anyone to get too excited.

The compassion of Mr. Miller for the Holloways was so apparent....he said he will stay there as long as BHT stays there.

Beth to me appeared better than the last few times I've seen her.  On one episode she was so tense, I thought she would break down on national tv....but she appeared more rested this evening.

Jug was doing his best to keep his temper under control - you can sense he is being very cautious!

Beth asked him how long he was staying to search. He told her he wasn't leaving until Beth left.

What a guy!!!

If the U.S. government steps in there WILL be a backlash. I can guarantee it.

I believe that the Equissearch guy said that they were still searching, that the lake was not cleared yet.  I took this to mean that they would continue it tomorrow.  That poor family.

Can't get it linked right but there are many dams and tinakis on the island. I'm starting to get an idea about how hard it is to search there.

Hi everyone!  I just want to say that Tim with Equusearch is so sincere and dedicated to finding NH! That's the first I saw him speaking and he seems so determined!

Nancy Grace got excited when the Equissearch guy said he got a hit with the dogs.  I think she knows she may have scooped the story, on TV anyway.  We've all known for 8 or 9 hours now on the blogs.

absolut, you said last night, and I concurred, that if the parents were pissed, we'd know we were back to square one. Well last night bombed on the interviews, SOS IMO, but a major attitude adjustment tonight by the Ps on NG--quite the opposite of last nights' interviews. I think the gloves are off until they have closure now...

[edit]Greta's in the house[/edit]

I believe "not cleared yet" means that they have not concluded that there is nothing to be found here or rather negative results.

Arubagirl, help me out here.  What kind of backlash?

jac723, Great post!   :D

Kinda hard to do when the FBI is impressed with LE's work there.  At least that's the story that is being told.

Course it could be the FBI team that is searching for the Anthrax killer down there in Aruba.  hint - US isn't always great at this either. somethings really do take time.  This is not another episode of CSI

If the U.S. government steps in, officially, while right now I am watching on tv that the cops didn't help a lady get her children back from her estranged husband, people will get SO pissed, that less and less attention will be paid. The U.S. government thinks they can solve this? Let them, but we're not going to help and get bashed by American(s) (providing that you're one) at the same time. We're nice, not crazy.

   And a backlash on the part of the Arubans to this kind of heavy-handedness would be more than justified. Aruba's a sovereign state, not a U.S. protectorate.

Are you all feeling hopeless right now. Look at those three precious girls on Nancy Grace. Their mother has no justice.  And most of you get upset when I talk about taking justice in my own hands. Sometimes that might be the only way...Before you call the liberals out to lash me with a wet noodle, just remember, it could be you or your babies.

Ok whoever on here has the email, text message and cell phone records please send them to greta, she told O Reilly she'll get em. :)

The U.S. government will not step in.

Backlash, schmacklash. We have GOT to get to the bottom of this and it is going to take resources that Aruba simply doesn't have.

It is a beautiful place and I wish I could go see it, but if they don't let us do whatever it takes to find Natalee, I would never go there even if I could. It is getting ridiculous.

arubagirl, PLEASE don't take that personally. I am grateful for what you are doing.

Arubagirl, I would like to thank your parents for raising such a fantastic young lady. You must be their pride and joy. Thank you so much for all you do and please thank your parents for doing their part in making you as wonderful as you are.

Also add we have our own missing cases here some which havent been solved. Arent those two kids still missing? Shasta and Dylan? Havent heard much about that case and any resolution yet.

I trust the parents instincts that they know more than we ever could about who the guilty parties are.  If she doesnt get justice I just hope she can bring her daughter home.  I probably could never leave until she were found one way or another.

A mothers instincts are very powerful, therefore I trust her assumptions regarding PVDS

I am also watching that, what a shame!! It didn't help when Tim from Equusearch was saying it looked like they might be there searching for a good while  :(

For the record I agree the US GOVT will not step in.

Sb, tell me something honestly. If an Aruban was killed by the anthrax sending person, would the U.S. allow the Aruban police to step in? Seriously?

And I DO take it personally.

I.Don't.Think.So.

Ok, lets go INVADE ARUBA....

GWD

FYI Greta has taped interview with Steve Croes at 10, at his house it looks like.

Arubagirl, I do agree, as I just watched the same story.  And I guess I am not so sure they could solve it, as much as I think our people may be able to work better together with the Aruban LE to break these guys!  

These are just my thoughts as a frustrated reader.

I don't want to last you with a wet noodle!  And while I probably fall in the liberal camp, I pray for justice too.  But not VIGILANTE-sytle justice.

I think the guy that founded Equisearch in a real standup guy.  

Unlike so many of the parents of lost children who crusade for meaningless new laws, this guy did something that really works.

Just shows you that what private individuals do is superior to government.  Compare the clowns of Aruba law enforcement (or US law enforcement) to Equisearch.

Even if this happened in a US territory, like Puerto Rico, the FBI would still have some hurdles to jump in order to lead an investigation there.  It's only frustrating because here in the US, we sometimes give away the farm in our investigations to the general public. You have to respect a law in a different country that doesn't do that - there's great benefit to it, IMO.

Those of you who saw Tim Miller from Equusearch tonight, did you notice he said they were bringing in more equipment???  NG kinda stepped on him a couple of times, but I'm positive I heard that.

Just remembered it.

mitzid - I don't mean to argue with you, but what would you like the US Government to do?  It is Aruba, not the US - our government has NO authority there.  And from all appearances, the Aruban authorities are doing everything they can (within the limits of their law) to find Natalee or whoever has/had her.  They can't lock up everyone on the island.

I'm sorry to sound like I'm lecturing but it gets old hearing people say "When is the government going to step in?"  as if the whole world is our to do whatever we want with.

Contrary to what some people think we do NOT rule the world.

pinemeadows, heard it too.

I'm going to take a break, because I'm starting to get mad. Will be back if I hear something, otherwise see y'all tomorrow.

Edited to add: Okay, I'm not that mad, but I was pissed at that attorney's comments. Not at the posters here. Seriously. You've all been polite.

you what to talk about a case the cops have made a mess of    that about the little girl in fla. raped  then buryed alive    every body in the house lied to the cops and not 1 of them has been charge

I don't believe the US would step in officially.  They'll continue to put huge pressure through diplomatic means...

Oops yall did it again.

kkial, info from cops have completely shut down after the fake confession story.

Good night arubagirl!  Tomorrow is a new day.  Thanks again for your kindness and your courage.

could not agree more!!

"Ok whoever on here has the email, text message and cell phone records please send them to greta, she told O Reilly she'll get em"

Has LE EVER official stated that this is wat we know and need help filling in the blanks.  I have seen / heard "attorneys" but what about on the record from LE spokes person?

Taz, please see my edited post.

<<<< that is one thing we agree on

I'm so glad certain posters aren't in Aruba working on the case. You would drive all our support away. Intelligence AND diplomacy should work together!

I think he said if they have too that they would be bringing in more equipment. :)

Instigator.

Didn't mean to upset anyone, especially Arubagirl.  

It is just so frustrating!  And I guess I put too much stock into the US Gov anyway, since you all are right.  We can't solve our own missing cases.  

I take back what I said with my tail between my legs.  


Mitzi :oops:

Steve CROES ---MOTHER said it all last night, she belongs to JESUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! amen and so do I.........


GWD

I am glad,,,,thanks

BIG THANK YOU for all you do,,,you are so sweet!

Okay, when I am faced with a difficult task that I cannot handle on my own I ask for help.  If Aruba does not have the equipment or resources to solve this case it would be better for them to ask for help than look totally incompetant.  Not saying that Aruba is not capable, but it seems to me that after one month more progress could have / should have been made.

Just my humble opinion.

82nd airborne is deploying to Aruba.

Too many ups & downs for me today.  Gonna play a little poker on Pogo and try to relax.  Will watch Fox.  If anything new develops I'll be back.

Have a good night all.

Thanks to all for your hard work and great posts.

Mitz check her post.  She edited it and you should read it.

Like many people, I have been obsessing over this case for weeks and yet I cannot even begin to tell you what the attraction is.  There are murders, rapes and abductions in our own Country that go virtually unnoticed every day.  For reasons unknown we tend to focus in on a few high profile cases for our own amusement.  There is something inherently wrong with that.  It is not healthy.  It is the same behavior that causes a gawker’s block at the site of an auto accident.  Admittedly, I am as guilty as the next.

And after following this site closely for weeks, reading every article and watching every  report I conclude that about the only thing one can conclude regarding the Natalee Holloway case is that you cannot believe anything anyone says and I mean anyone.  The students contradict themselves, the lawyers contradict themselves, the Aruban officials contradict themselves.  The parents state what they believe and it is taken as fact.  The mainstream media reports completely false information.  Rumors start, prove to be false, and then new rumors are started to explain why the first rumor didn’t pan out.  Some of this may be attributable to a language problem like when Steve Croes’ Lawyer says all his client did was report a conversation he heard at the internet café but he lied to police or when a Justice Official states that he (Steve) lied from the bottom of his heart and is a good boy.  Huh?  Some of it may be attributable to the fact that the media has nothing to report so they simply make stuff up.

In any case, it’s time for me to find another hobby.  Perhaps the best thing that I can do for Natalee is to spend time with my own Daughter.  I hope the Holloway’s find their Daughter and those responsible for her disappearance are brought to justice and I hope the people of Aruba can recover from this mess.

BHT-just said she HAS Questions for PVDS, so is that ok to say that PVDS has Questions for BHT ?

GWD

Geraldo on live now on Fox. I think he's airing an earlier interview with Beth and leads into another interview he'll air later tonight. No mention of the quarry.  Beth indicates she thinks father has some answers.

Since it calmed down slightly at SM, I thought I might take a moment to express my appreciation to our hosts and their moderators for creating this fabulous place to share information and perhaps at times even help the investigation. With that in mind, and trying not to exasperate the system that fuels this incredible resource, I made a few notes throughout the day.

Our fabulous host and moderator-extraordinaire made several strong pleas to cut down on refreshing our screens and/or refrain from posting other than breaking news at these times:

absolut 2:15
absolut 12:40
absolut 11:35
absolut 10:59
absolut 10:32
Scared-Tom 11:06
Scared-Tom 2:00

I was shocked that so many people were not honoring these requests. After many "me too" posts, a really useless exchange about a black detective that FoxNews regularly broadcasts, and learning that Greta has topped Bill in FoxNews ratings, I needed to do something. It seemed beyond rude to me for certain posters to seemingly dismiss these requests as if they did not apply to everyone. I couldn't post my concerns because that violated the stated request, so I finally started keeping a list.  I am sorely tempted to post that list of offenders, which is pretty long, but such an act might cause my born-and-raised-in-Alabama father to spin in his grave. I'm not sure simply saying, "and you know who you are" is enough. In my mind, the only people who would be so brazen to not comply with numerous requests must just think that the rules do not apply to them - and therefore do NOT know who they are.

If you had trouble reading today (only those with actual substantive info were supposed to be posting) your beef is to some extent with these folks.

Please in times of web-stress, can we not agree to comply with moderator requests?

Hey guys, I am all about free speech, and i understand that we all have different theories, our own opinions, our own take on what we think happened and our own"whodunnit" claims..

But, when we express our feelings and frustrations, we all need to take a step back and realize that Aruba-bashing isnt gonna do anything but hurt those who live there and love it...

I am almost positive that if the tables were turned, and Arubians were bashing the US , we would certainly be the first ones to pass some serious judgement...

The people that are here posting from Aruba dont have any control over their LE..and it just angers them to hear how much we wanna come over there and "school" them on how to do an investigation...

I dont agree with the way their LE is handling this either..but there is probably alot we DONT know..I also didnt agree with the way OUR LE handled Jon-benet Ramsay..we dont always "catch the crook" either...

I think we all need a break..and to step back and go eat some mashed potatoes.....How bout it, RB? :D

Hannity and Colmes pictured a man who they say was being held in NH disappearance and has just been released. This was pictured as a middle aged white male, not PVDS, and I was unfamiliar with this image.  Anyone know who it is?  They said they'll have more on that later... bait

I wonder what his questions would be?

This is apparently what Greta said on FOX....

I hope *everyone* reads it and listens....the vigilante opinions have gotten way out of line, IMVHO...

This is from a poster at riehlworld:

"Finally. Greta listed several scenarios describing how Natalee may have disappeared without the involvement of JVDS. As she told O'Reilly, *all* of the rumors and speculation floating around have one thing in common: NO proof of how Natalee went missing. (I paraphrased)

I'm glad to hear some fair and balanced reporting from Greta and FOX -- and I won't hold my breath until it happens again."

(from cmoney...thanks)

I think we all need a break..and to step back and go eat some mashed potatoes.....How bout it, RB

nikki, mashed taters RULE :)

Gabba gabba, hey hey

I would think PVDS has MANY question that he wants to ask BHT, but if I was to say what they are on here, I would get flamed or BANNED probably.

GuyWdog

Although I am not an active poster and I've only posted twice so far, I have been viewing this site for many, many days.  Today I read some odd, perhaps insightful but interesting posts from people known as Simian, Babalu, New Girl and Shango.  Some were written  code-like and others were trying to decipher.  Has any useful info been established from these postings?

I think PVDS has alot of apologies to dish out but not really alot of questions.

Why wouldn't he have asked them when she was invited into his house for 90 minutes? He obviously asked him, and did not get the answers she was looking for, even if he answered them.

Everyone should keep in mind that missing persons cases (which this still is, officially) are very, very hard to solve, even with the best resources of law enforcement available.

Well, I'm not sure what I did here...hopefully nothing.  I was just posting what was on the news.

We all need to take a step back here, and not be talking about having our government step in where it has no business being.  That sounds like we're bullies on the playground, kids!

Like Nancy said, all they have the power to do is make diplomatic requests...and it's doubtful they would/could/should do that...at least at this point.

I know which posts you are referring to and they are on the front page, but not in here so many may not have seen them.  I agree the posts are very cryptic in nature and I'm not sure what to think.
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1192#comments

Geraldo just said that PvdS  picked Joran up at 4 AM on the night Natalee disappeared!!

Hannity and Colmes is going to have a report on the search today.  Geraldo just reported that the phone records are what got the three arrested.  He said more but I missed it while I was letting the dog out to chase a mountain lion.

Could you post a link to those posts? I searched the words "Babalu" and in a separate search, "Shango" and the only return was your original post.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1192#comments

Hi all ... in New York for a job interview and the hotel is great but ... there's no Fox News!

Heading to old pages to catch up on the days news ...

so i did hear that right

There were reports that Natalee's bags were packed and that her purse and cell phone were in her hotel room. Wouldn't that indicate that Natalee did make it back to the hotel room? Did Natalee's roommates see her pack? What about the reports that Natalee's roommates didn't spend the night in her hotel room? :roll:

OT - Do you live in Evergreen?

Arrabba - On topic:  Geraldo's report - PVDS picked up Joran at 4:00 a.m.??????  What's up with that?

I saw all of that.  Stated that Joran called Deepak for a ride, then text messaged nevermind he had another ride, and JVDS gave Joran ride home at 4am.  Sat here wondering why Geraldo continues to spout off at the mouth, but also remembered that he was standing there with one of Natalee's family members (isn't that her aunt that was next to him) and wondering if that information is coming from the family who has gotten the information from LE.  Wondering if he actually just gave us some confirmed facts that we have not heard before and if he is getting his facts from a family that is not so likely to stay quiet anymore.

Someone wrote me about these posts and I forgot to search for them.  Weren't they posted the other night, late?  Can you direct me to them?  Are they on their own thread?

If thats true then the supposed text message saying he walked home doesnt even mesh.

Everybody is lying.

Really?  I thought he kept with the text message deal?  Hmmmm, guess I missed that.

It's been stated a few times that the chaperones actually packed her things.

back on the record with Geraldo:  NEW Phone records.

he states:  JVDS first text message to Deepak for a ride home, then secound text messages an hour later, "never mind he's got a ride".  PVDS picks JVdS up at 3:00 pm and takes him home.

As I stated three weeks ago, this case all boils down to tying all types of evidence

Not at all.  She packed before going out that night.  Also, her cell phone didn't work in Aruba...no need to take it.  Most of the girls did not take purses with them, just their ID's and enough cash for the evening.

Someone wrote me about these posts and I forgot to search for them.  Weren't they posted the other night, late?  Can you direct me to them?  Are they on their own thread?[/quote]

I'd be willing to bet that these posts were made by four or five individuals just looking for attention & to divert our attention.

The more geraldo talks the better my real theory looks.

Might want to invade Jamaica while you're at it...woman missing for years there.  Oh........don't forget individual states here in the U.S. where people go missing every day and often not found.  Oh, and we better start the draft again to get enough soldiers to cover these invasions.  Oops .. we need some on the cruise ships too.

Your words are abit confusing !!!  "He Obviously asked HIM" could you humor me as to what you mean, thanx...and since you seem to imply that you were there druing the entire interview,( or are you going on a inside informant?) tell us which questions PVDS asked.

 thanx for your info....I am intrigued as to all the questions that LOTS of us would like to ask but are affraid to....would you like me to ask them?

GuyWdog

I'd be willing to bet that these posts were made by four or five individuals just looking for attention & to divert our attention.[/quote]
Scroll down to find the posts.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1192#comments

Found em. Thanks!

One more time, for old time's sake, can you post your simple theory??? :wink:

Question #1 from PVDS - "What do you want me to do ?" (while pounding chest in an arrogant/confident manner).

Hey aruba girl!!!  Just catching up and thanks also for your tireless energy and insights for many many a scared monkey. :!:  :!:  

O'reilly is on fox...people e-mailed him that they thought until now NH case) he was beyond"sensationalism"  He and then Geraldo...showing Croes happy going later to Alta Vista to light a candle and pray.

I still have more q's than answers..like everyone.

Why has no one cracked?? Why the twists and turns...and what truly happened to Natalee.

I'm glad equisearch is there and at the same time sad that they may have found a "hit"...

WRITENOW-
saw post earlier w/ bendover r:e:  the internet cafe connection/ Deepak somehow getting Croes to support alibi of marriot...and bingo you r right-they hadn't concocted the marriot lie yet,had they??  

This also makes me question Deepak and what he said to Mickey John (sec gaurd) about "I shoulda never left her alone w/the dutch guy"...
if thats even true... anyway...what if Deepak lied to mickey to begin with to somehow est his own alternate alibi and keep blame on Joran????

just checking out a different angle? anyone else?

This is not a complicated case people.  When you have competent LE and English Law, arrests would have happened weeks ago.

 REALLY, how do you KNOW this? what are your sources? I ca n think of loads of questions that NEED to be asked and confirmed, so that Natalee can be found, rather than barking up the WRONG tree for 4 weeks...

GuyWdog

Vorpman - your timings are off:

2:30 - Calls Deepak for ride
3:15 - Text messages Deepak - Nevermind - got another ride
4:00 - PvdS picks him up

They havent cracked because they were prepped by daddy and they know they will finally go free is she is not found. They know IT

umm...RUT-RO

This is a according to Dash...who was on the trip with Natalee.  I believe her, you can choose to or not.

Thanks for the corrections, I'm listening to fox and typing at the same time.

I thought it was the Holiday Inn lie that was concocted.

Where did that quote come from? I sure don't remember reading that Deepak thought he shouldn't leave Natalee alone with the Dutch guy?

Huh?

And Jug Twity hasn't been Arrogant? and some have even called for an invasion of Aruba, hey now thats arrogant to me...Do you know how to spell HYPOCRACY? These 5 have taken all sorts of abuse and still no leads or forward movement in this case. Bringing someone 's Dad in to put pressure on his son to TALK is Arrogant. the next time they do that to you, I hope you remember about all this, but oh wait, they dont do that in the USA...sorry

GuyWdog

Those are beyond weird.

Scroll down to find the posts.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1192#comments[/quote]

Could be, but it couldn't hurt to lay a mango or two down by your Legba head for Natalee's return  ;)

uhhh...hypocrisy

GutWdog - I thought it was you who said we should invade Aruba.

For all the regular posters, to the best of your knowledge LE (FBI) hasn't released forensics on PVDS car.

Could be, but it couldn't hurt to lay a mango or two down by your Legba head for Natalee's return  ;)[/quote]
Actually, I didn't say that...but I agree, lol.

Read somewhere, and maybe not on this website, that the day the kids all flew home, some of the friends had calls coming in from NH's cell phone.  It was of course, the chaperone calling to see if they heard from her.  How is this possible if the phone did not work from there?


Anyone else hear this before?

Ive heard 10 different versions of phone/text messages that night.  

Theres no consistency except they all deal with Deepak, Joran and possibly PVDS.  

I doubt anyone knows the whole truth about these phone records because what they reveal could be very incriminating and thats something they wouldnt share with everyone yet.

[/b]I know I heard Beth say Joren said that to her.....she was sitting in the car holding a picture of Natalee...and she said she told Joren she wanted her daughter and she wanted her now.....the above was Joren reply to Beth....this was during an interview when she said he was the most arrogant 17 yo she had ever met

When your family member is missing you can be arrogant!!! anytime you want. If your son is considered a suspect, you should try and find the truth first, love your son, but don't protect him if he continues to lies. That is bad character>>>>

Ladyhawke112:  I totally agree.

Because the chaperone got the "chip" or whatever is needed to make the phone work in Aruba.

yeah, allegedly, the phones work to call US but not to call intra-island.

Yes....hypocrisy...and you apparently don't.

You are always in "attack mode".  Just chill.  There's a right way and a wrong way to disagree, or to question.

I'd be willing to bet that these posts were made by four or five individuals just looking for attention & to divert our attention.[/quote]

And I'm willing to bet you are wrong on that issue.  After lurking around them for weeks, they've been eerily prescient on many issues -- and scooped Fox every time.  One of the group in particular I'd say has been 90 percent or better in accuracy and is trustworthy.  Unfortunately, now that they've been outed, it's likely there will be silence instead of cryptic posting from all of them.

Perhaps we should all lurk there and avoid questioning, so as not to rattle their cages.  They may be diversions to some degree. They may not.  But they certainly are interesting and hopefully we won't do anything to damage that.

Thanks klaasend!

reports were that the girls made up her bags the morning of the 30th, which was from an interveiw last week I beleive.
sorry if this may have been answered, I'm still on pg 4..... :oops:

I read that too - that he told his cellmate Mickey John. The question is what did Deepak mean by that? Maybe he meant that if he was with Joran he could vouch for what happened. I don't think it necessarily means that Deepak thinks Joran did something to Natalee.

The way Dutch law works. You have to have someone with you to vouch for what your are saying or you will get arrested...

Did Geraldo reveal how he knew that PvdS picked up his son at 4 am?

Were there other phone records revealing a phone call to father from son??

Yes, word is that the phones started working that morning.  Typical cell phone company service :-)

NO

When I think back on all the guys my daughters dated, there isn't a single one of them (even the ones I didn't like!) that would ever have handled himself this way with me, or any other adult.  

Every single one of them would have been helpful to the max, saying they were sorry, etc......if Joran was innocent, why didn't he respond in kind???  Being rude doesn't mean he's guilty, but it's one more piece of the puzzle.

HYPOCRISY

Could be, but it couldn't hurt to lay a mango or two down by your Legba head for Natalee's return  ;)[/quote]


umm, those posts, guys..WTF???

NO as to his source, we don't know the how many phone calls/ text messages were made.

The attorney for one of the brothers said that Joran called at 2:40AM to say that he was walking home and leaving Natalee on the beach.

Does anyone really believe that this was the purpose of this call?  Don't people sleep in Aruba on a Sunday night/ Monday morning when they have school and jobs to get up for Monday morning, so that such an inconsequential call would be unbelievally irritating?  How many of you or your teenagers get calls at 2 in the morning that are not serious emergencies?

Joran was calling for another ride for himself and a dead Natalee.  

The follow up text message 40 minutes later alleging that he was now home safely is classic as a coverup, and makes the first call look even more obviously a call for help.  Would Satish or Deepak really give a rats ass to know that Joran got home safely, and is Aruba so dangerous that there would be a question that one could not walk safely from the Marriott to Jorans home?

Give me a break.

Maybe they'll explain more on Greta at 8pm, (that's my time zone)

That is correct.  I haven't seen one word about those particular forensics.

Perhaps we should all lurk there and avoid questioning, so as not to rattle their cages. They may be diversions to some degree. They may not. But they certainly are interesting and hopefully we won't do anything to damage that.

I agree, they were definitely very WEIRD postings, but as I am not familiar with Aruba culture, I find them fascinating and perhaps telling.  I still feel optimistic that Natalee is alive, but then again, that is my nature.

Inspector - While I absolutely cannot remember WHERE I heard/read this, and I'm sorry, it's my understanding that Natalee's roommates packed her belongings.  I remember that they said they thought maybe she just ended up staying in another classmates' room, and was running late (overslept?), so they packed her stuff for her, so she could grab it and go back to the airport.  Sorry for the lack of source, but I remember that being a question in my mind, and then hearing the explanation somewhere.

We give better sources on here than Geraldo does on TV.

Yes - phones couldn't call Aruban numbers, just US numbers

ArubaGirl, don't take all the stupid comments to heart,  our media is pissing me off too.....I'm American born and raised, and this is just my own humble opinion, but the US Govt should work on some things on our own soil before stepping out into others. We have had many major screwups here and it ticks me off to see all these people (NOT specifically here, more on tv that I am referring to) yapping about how the Arubans/Dutch are not ahdnling this case properly, like WE can step in and "get it done". We have thousands upon thousands of missing-persons that have turned to cold cases. 1 happens in Aruba, and suddenly we are like "They aren't doing it right, they could be doing so much more, they should let US handle it"....yeah right!

I think truthfully, the Holloway-Twittys are just very frusrtated and using whatever means they have available out of fear that if they don't turn up the heat and raise hell, Natalee will be among these many missing people who are never found. They might be projecting some bitterness toward Aruba and using our media to do so, our media are down there fanning the flames....but for the Holloway family, they are running on pure emotion right now. Any rational person can see that there are just a lot of people jumping on the wagon due to all the media coverage this is getting.

I PRAY for Natalee's safe return and for at least her family to find her and find the truth. When I see all the mothers on tv, I feel bad for them. Steve Croes's mother made me cry as does Natalee's mom especially.

But you know, I get sort of angry at society as a whole that a very select few missing people get such large media coverage while others get none. For various reasons, if you don't have resources to hound the media or if your missing loved one is not "marketable" you don't get the coverage and the prayers of the masses and financial help etc. I'm not knocking this case, just sorta saying I hate our media. And the way some of us run our mouths lashing out at Aruba when we have so many problems here.  :idea:   We should just be grateful that most Arubans have been very nice to deal with. Our media is being a MAJOR pain in the ass down there.

Harris Faulkner "A Current Affair" being interviewed on Fox.

Boy meets girl, girl meets boy (not to mince words)
Girl with friends sees boy again, friends leave
Girl leaves with boy (no assumtions)
Girl and boy get in vechicle
Vechicle drives off into the night.
Boy alive and well, as well as 2 others in the car (remember no statements are any good.)

Girl is missing and no one can tell us, how, why, when where. You have one thing left guilt.

Without statements for or against where does the guilt logically fall.

I doubt guys call guys to let them know they got home ok...sounds rather femine and "planned"  thats why I dont believe the bogus got home at such and such and feel Deepak has more to do with this than we think.

guilt logically falls with the liars.

Forensics is key as stated numerous times in the past.  I only hope the FBI took charge of that part of the investigation, but I doubt it.

Exactly Neil.  Teenage BOYS don't text to say "I'm home."  Girls, perhaps.  And we've heard from several different locals that Aruba is generally a very safe place so what would have happened to him on that walk?  His story isn't jivin'.

I have been out for several hours - wcould some one fill me in on the quarry search - thank you

The US could easily and legally take over the Arubian investigation by seriously threatening a State Dept. ban on all travel from the US to Aruba.

Personally, I think this would be a horrible idea, but it would work. The Netherlands would force Aruba to cave in a heartbeat. They are already tired of supporting Aruba.

Agree...and let me point out that it's particularly dangerous if you're a 6'4 guy.

Yes. You do! Particularly one source, and I'd hate to lose that person's cryptic postings.

I think the plan was for Deepak to come back and pick Joran up. So if he walked home or got a ride with someone else, yes it makes sense to call Deepak and tell him he got a ride already. Apparantly these kids in Aruba routinely stay out till the early hours of the morning partying and gambling. :roll:

:twisted:

Can I just say I can't stand Geraldo??? Get him off my tv screen please! Send him home, FOX.....really.

What a sensationalist and he creeps me out the way he tries to hug on the women he interviews. I am referring to the first night he was down there with Natalee's mom and also when he interviewed Steven Croes' mother. Whatta creep! He is an embarassment, at least Greta knows how to keep it reeled in. They are all after ratings, under the guise of being there to "help", at least Greta did get some interesting interviews.

Rant over  :evil:

 :arrow: Prayers for Natalee....

Would that be Shango? Although I know there have been other "cryptic" postings on here, but to me his/hers has been the MOST cryptic that I've seen!

I am so confused about those dang cryptic messages..and, what kind of message board is that? excuse me for not knowing, but i have never seen a post look like that on here..and who in the heck is simian? I speak spanish, but alot of that was just BIZARRE....lol

So, help me out here.  Did Steve Croes just come forward on his own, out of the blue to lie for Deepak?  Or, did Deepak ask him to lie?  This is really important, IMO.  If Deepak asked him to lie, then I would "guess" Deepak is somehow involved.  Otherwise why would he ask his friend to cover for Joran?

And, why would Croes just go to the police with a lie?  This does not compute?

 :arrow: that too...but if i am getting it right croes supported marriot alibi,
maybe it doesn' even matter.  I just got back from work and have only put on fox and read last 5 pages.

What is the story regarding the cryptic postings, are they psychic in nature?

Bravo!  And what about poor little Jessica alive in a closet when the police supposedly checked the pervert's place?  Talk about making one cry..I can't even repeat her poor father saying "I said we'd bring Jessica home and we are."

I too pray for Natalee and her family.

It was my understanding that her phone worked to/from the U.S., but not to other numbers on the island.

I saw him try to lock arms with BHT, she looked very uncomfortable.  It creeped me out too.

And I will answer the same as I did last night.  The guilt falls with Joran, Deepak and Satish....in that order.

I agree, but either they are REALLY knowledgeable or or totally full of B.S. and toying with everyone.  Whatever the case, I hope "those investigating this case" are watching and checking out EVERY angle and possibilty...

Given those facts and Dutch law, Joran had to make up a story to keep from being arrested.

Neil... this is quite good... really... HOWEVER I have a real hardtime
believing those kids have enough brains between them to even think of a coverup... OF ANY KIND!

I don't see it happening. Joran may have been an honors student... but
thats book smart. I believe they ALL lack commonsense...

Really what else is there for them to do? I've read that most of the good beach areas are hogged up by hotels who want to keep locals out and tourists happy. It's a small island, very beautiful, but after living there so long, what is there for the youth to do when they've done it all 1000 times? Can't blame them if they do partake in the tourist spots. OUR kids go there and stay out till all hours gambling and partying, what's the difference?

Not picking on you, just making a point.

That's the place where we were posting before they kindly got this forum up for us on the 13th.  lol.   :D

Thats the point, I dont think we know anything regarding everything that incriminated these guys.  The story keeps changing as to why everyone got arrested and who said what. I dont think it will be known when and if someone is charged and Natalie is found.

Example:  The rumor Croes shipped a 100 lb box to South America. Thats pretty funny.

Geraldo says the truth today.  "LE not bad people" just in over their head.  right on the money Geraldo.

Ok here goes.

I believe the brothers story of dropping JVDS and NAT at Marriott Beach. Something happens (no idea if she was predrugged, drugged at all or killed by JVDS, or some other means.) JVDS freaks calls dad. Dad comes with now the 2nd car she is in (in whatever condition) dad either has JVDS help him or takes JVDS home and disposes of the body (very well I might add) JVDS makes sure that people at school and the brothers are on the same page about HI etc. But he doesn't tell them what happened either.

The emails we read could very well be that cover in writing.

The only thing that brings me back to this is the following,

I have gotten from 5 seperate sources, yes one is fox the phone, and text timeline. It has to have been leaked in the last 24 hours. Possibly because PVDS got out. The outcry of the info would get him back in.

Per Geraldo, Multiple sources, Croes was to give a false alibi to LE

maybe we can get the sex traders to kidnap him

I always was wondering why there are two types of message boards...can maybe a moderator explain.  

To Geraldo....it really creeped me out when he fixed the DJs mothers hair...ewwwwwwwwwww!

We all know to take Geraldo's comments with a heavy grain of salt.  However, he succinctly summed up why the Aruban authorities will have a major damage control problem on their hands if Natalee's body is not found:

They had 10 days to sanitize everything; during which time:

1. No search of the van der Sloot home.
2. Did not keep the kids' (or PVDS') clothes from that night.
3. Didn't seize the computers immediately.
4. No search of the vehicles.

While nepotism and cronyism corrupts justice everywhere, Aruba is too small a place to sustain a prolonged impact from this case.

My only suggestion to the powers that be on island:

Do the right thing.  72,000 Aruban citizens deserve better.

It's not a message board, it's the comment area on the front page of this Blog.  They have not posted in the forum that I'm aware of.  Yes..very wierd.

The report I read said that Croes overheard Deepak during a telephone conversation. It didn't say what Croes heard. Croes then went to the police with the information and was arrested. :shock:

Sandy....an ES guy was on Nancy Grace and said they may have gotten a hit at the "lake"...they are going back tomorrow....(go back to first page ....someone (mcf13???) posted a quick summary).

He said the dogs are tired, terrain is rough....but they will stay there as long as BHT stays.

Everybody really liked that guy....fwiw.

Is the quarry search still on - have there been any reports from the site?

Geraldo:  Kalpoe boys went to carwash and scrubbed car while they were free before their arrest.

To Geraldo....it really creeped me out when he fixed the DJs mothers hair...ewwwwwwwwwww![/quote]

   Thank you for verifying that I didn't hallucinate when I saw that.

I can believe that Joran might have told Deepak, when he was dropped off at 1:30AM,  that he would call him if he needed a ride later on, but I cannot believe that he would call him to tell him, "never mind".  He simply would have taken the walk home and not bothered to wake up Deepak an hour later.

And the follow up text call has all the appearance of a coverup trail and simply is not logical.  Would a guy who needs to get up of school in a few hours take the time to send a meaningless text message, were he not trying to establish his whereabouts?

I just know that earlier today I couldn't get on this one and that was the only one I could read.....

Help me out guys...I need posters that blamed Natalee.  I am having to justify myself.  Who were the people who talked about the drinking and Natalee's clothes?

   Thank you for verifying that I didn't hallucinate when I saw that.[/quote]

Nope Nope Nope....just creepy!!!

That is my theory too.  I think there have been several of us who have (mostly) all along felt this was a "simple" crime.  There were times that the conspiracy theories were interesting because we couldn't figure out how these guys could be so good at covering this up.  But it was late in the game that we discovered that Joran was at home those few days with only his father and that his father became a likely player in this too.  At that point it made sense that this was very possible with his help.  Anyway, I think you are right and this has made the most sense since the beginning.  Simple crime.

   if you go to the SM home page, and click on "comments" beneath the various updates, there are a number of posts that have been really trashing Natalee. I don't want to repeat some of what was said.

That is funny!

One more thing, is that Jug confirmed tonight that Deepak was there with Joran when the family showed up.  Another report had pooh poohed that.  But, why would Deepak be with Joran to offer support if he wasn't invovled?  Yikes.  What time was that?

Why not post the info you received?

Sandy, this is what we know from Tim Miller on tv tonight:  The dogs got a slight hit in/by a lake.  They are going back tomorrow.  They have also identified bodies of water near the Kalpoe's home, so that will also be an area to be searched.

Nothing else new really...Beth was on NG tonight, as was Tim Miller.  Mr. Miller appears to be a compassionate man who puts his money where his mouth is - he will stay there with Beth as long as she wants to stay there.  Beth seemed as well as can be expected, and better than in recent days, IMO.

SO SPILL THE BEANS ON THE PHONE AND TEXT TIMELINES....PLEASE!!!!!! :!:

True. I can think of 50 better stories concerning the 2 calls that the lawyer could have said. Yet he went public with this one? these boys are the worst liars i have ever heard. LE must be going crazy.

My hunch is that the brothers dropped off Joran and Nat at the Mariott beach, Joran had given her a rape drug, which led her to have some kind of reaction (asthma attack or similar?) and she died as a result.  He panicked, phoned the brothers to get them to give him a lift home, they refused, so he phoned his father, who helped him get rid of the body and come up with a cover story, and told him to send the text message.  That is pure speculation, but what else can one do right now?

Anyone know where the Kalpoe's home is located?

I'd be willing to bet that these posts were made by four or five individuals just looking for attention & to divert our attention.[/quote]I asked about them on this forum wondering who in the world these people were and why they were "out there" instead of "in here."  That's where I found the crazy post by some guy talking about seeing Natalee walk into the ocean (I'M NOT SAYING THAT, this guy was just spouting off I guess.)

GUY WITH DOG:
Here you go...

Your theory of events makes more sense to me than any other.  I hope they find her body.

One is attached to Tom and Red's blogs entrys as comments. The other is the forum extention. (here) We are working to incorporate one directly with the other, thanks for the question.

[/quote]
Current version of this story (not suggesting it is the true or last) has it that Steve Croes overheard Deepak on the phone at the internet cafe and went to the police with what he heard.  He does't know Deepak.[/quote]

Actually, the lady from Current Affair on Geraldo said that they (SC and Deepak) were friends, and that SC said that he didn't realize how big of a deal it was to give false information to the police to cover for his friend (which implies to me that he KNEW it was false).  SC said the lie wasn't worth trying to protect a friend.

It's the same as the fox info.

 :? Hmmmm. Plausible yet.... Wouldn't S. and D. be up front about such a scenario at this point... many days in jail, questions of murder?? What would keep them from owning up to this scenerio?

I asked about them on this forum wondering who in the world these people were and why they were "out there" instead of "in here."  That's where I found the crazy post by some guy talking about seeing Natalee walk into the ocean (I'M NOT SAYING THAT, this guy was just spouting off I guess.)[/quote]

I mentioned that earlier today I could not get on this board and only the one the "cryptic guys/gals" were posting on...maybe they had the same problem and could only post there??  Possible.

I think he said it was 5 am that they were finally called and said Joran was home from the bogus casino.  TOday is the first day I heard that Deepak was there too.  Not sure if that is verified yet.

On Greta's show:  BHT says she has never talked to prosecutors.

Since Joran father is a lawyer, do we know anything about some of the cases that he has handled.  Is he considered strong as a criminal attorney or has he handled many murder cases. Just a thought

Thanks so much - it's confusing because they are not used as comments - used more like chat/message board.

On Greta's show:  Jug wants Holland to help Aruba with this case.

Thanks ExTEx - and the system thanks you for not quoting me - although I understand why some folks might be reluctant to reply - I have hope others got the message. If not, next time I'll post the list.

From Dan't site:
Updates On Today's Activities And Additional On Topic Content Within One Hour

Thank you Luna and Pinemeadows - was anxious to know if anything had turned up.
There was a shot of PVDS on CNN this evening looking very relaxed, smiling - he may be happy to be home but he would still be stressed if his son was still in big trouble - didn't come across that way on TV

Steve admitted he lied, and that's how he got in jail.  Amazingly, he says, there will be no consequences for his impeding the investigation.  No fines, no punishment, no slap on the wrist.....nothing, nada.

That was one of the very examples I was talking about...every day here it's more news about yet another murdered or abused child, with plenty of bungled investigations to boot. Every DAY. ANd 1 thing happens in Aruba and people are talking crap about how "we" should go down there and take control. I'm tired of hearing about people saying this will hurt Aruba's tourism, like they are happy about that (and like it's true). I don't hear the rest of the world saying they're not going to travel to the U.S. because of - not 1 crime, but many thousands of crimes everywhere from our big cities to our small towns. This is turning into a big peeve of mine because I am tired of hearing people in our media making public statements like this. You know, those who live in glass countries....should not throw stones!  :x

You can read about him at the riehlworldview sitte:
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/
Scroll down
Hope this helps!

Hey dad, get the shovel! We've got another cold one! Boy it's great to have a dad that will help out with murder victim disposal isn't it?

PVDS - no problemo el Jordano - I've already got a spot picked out for her! :lol:

Sorry guys for the consternation I left , it is just a suspicion.


It is my believe that this has happend.

First question why would Joran lie about the Holiday inn ?

 Because he knew he left her in a place where it would be quite probable that something would happen to her. It is like someone leaves me with my wite behiny in plain center harlem NY.

 I think joran has a big ego, and he did not get what he wanted and left her, turned his back and commenced walking home or asking his father for a pick up.

 Secondly I mentioned scars , I have seen varios foto of natalee one foto what stuck with me is a Natalee on a motorbicycle. Appears like a girl who certainly will give a good fight and will not give up that easly. RB once metioned one of the signs one would look for on a violence suspect would be scars .

I don t think that neigther that Joran would drug her in order to have love with her I think this is a kid , who realy needs a girl telling to him how good he is to pleasure his male ego.  Look at his pictures how is always in center of attention.

 Now supposedly he left Natalee behind. Not near her hotel. I do not know about you guys , but I have traveled and lived in many countries. I have been drunk in many shitty bars as well in these countries. Any many times I had to walk to my hotel aswell as I had not any cash left . Looking for my hotel . If you are lost and intoxicated what do you do you ask people for the directions or look for a taxi.

 Suppose she was in this situation lost , asked someone for directions or took a taxi with someone with bad intententions . She went along willingly or against her will . Neighter I would be suprised that it would be a Foreign person I asume you would trust a male caucasian who speaks better english then a local from Aruba.

I also think the person who did it hat intentions looking for a sexual pleasure or relieve. In Argentina where I live you have certain street corners where guys look for a cheap sexual relieve most of them do that after going to a bar in the late hours.

 I think this person or persons has taken her home did a harmfull deed to  her in the early morning of 31st to her. I also think this person has taken her in a smallboat for pleasury fishing and disposed of the body in the following days. And finally I think this was a person who is not a first time offender , this was a person who knew from the start what the outcome would be. And made some very good riskanalyses.

 As regards to the suspicion of someone posting overhere , I have noted that lots of rumours later on became self fulfilling proficies . I have been rereading blogs. I think that a person using various indenteties is pointing us in the wrong way. But I am not sure yet , I have have stumbled onto some weird messages . I will come to that when I am sure of it.

Nat's mom has been right on the money since day one. Back to square one.

A good detective doesn't blame anyone's government. They all suck!

Probably Jorans friends  On another message board, names of his friends, on his web site, were writing terrible things about her, like they hoped he killed her, etc....

No, not Shango. He's relatively new at the coded message game, I think. Also, I have trouble understanding his posts. :)

I am trying to catch up with posts-ran out with husband--but Thank You--trying to be helpful for everyone--hopefully  :o

According to previous reports from BHT and JT, BHT, Jug and his friends showed up at Joran's house that night.  P VDS said that Joran was not home, supposedly called him on his cell phone, then reported that Joran was at the Whyndham casino.  BHT, JT and friends went to the casino, Joran was not there.  Went back to Joran's house, and Joran and Deepak were both there with P VDS.

My personal belief is that JVDS was never at the Whyndam Casino.  I think he was either home the whole time, or JVDS and Deepak were taking care of some "other" business, but that's just my hunch.  However, if my 2nd part there proved to be true it would make me sick, b/c that would mean her family "missed" her by hours, at most.

I personally had trouble with this David Saunders referring to PVDS as 'the FAILED JUDGE" that to my mind was rude and uncalled for - certainly not geared to winning friends and influencing enemies / whoever among Arubans

I am just wandering if the cellphones there have gps (global positioning system) like our in the states. The detectives there would know exactly where eveyone was when they were used and i mean exactly. this would solve many answers.

Okay, Scott, let me see if I can explain it about the cover-up croyinism (that's when there is 'buddy politics' going on, right?)

In the case of van der Sloot, and the Kalpoes, there would not be any cover up going on from them coming from the cops. Dutch people, and especially Dutch officials are looked with a not-so-friendly eye, sort of "who does this makamba think (s)he is? Makamba is slang for Dutch person, you might compare it to the term 'yankee' in the U.S., with all its connotations.
I was born in the Netherlands from Aruban parents, and unless I open my mouth I'm competely Aruban: dark hair, dark eyes, Aruban last name, the works. But because I speak with a Dutch accent I have been teased and at times been called names.
Okay, now we have the prosecution. In my mind, the Dutch prosecution are fanatical about not showing any favoritism and being completely and utterly professional. They sort of have to be, because one wrong move and all the Arubans are going to yell: "favoritism!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Now we have the Surinamese brothers. Surinamese as a community have not been here for a long time and they're looked upon as foreigners. It takes a looooooooooooong time to be considered Aruban, by the way. There is no way in HELL that an Aruban cop is going to stick his neck on the line for those boys. NO WAY IN HELL.

Okay, van der Straaten (police commisioner). I used to be friends with his son, and let me tell you, that cop would have NO problem arresting his wife if it was necessary. Fair is fair and the law is the law.
As for helping the government, I can ASSURE you that he already put his job on the line once before when he pissed off the current government, and it took the Netherlands to intervene before he did loose it. He is not friendly with this government, so I doubt he'd help them cover something up.
So the quote "how can I do this to my best friend's son" is complete BULL in my opinion.

Some people asked what there is to do in Aruba:

Legally:

Under 18: the movies and going to the beach
Over 18: The nightclubs, the movies, the beach, driving around.
See why I ask why tourists would want to come here? It can be oh so boring here. I like Carlos and Charlies, but the DJ puts in a tape and it's the same order of songs every.single.night.

Thanks, I saw that earlier today in fact that is what peaked my interest. Since he I believe he had to serve 5 years as a prosc/defense attorney I'm sure he came in contact with quite a few interesting people.

Jorans father is not a lawyer.  Just a public servant with a M.S. in law.

On the subject of fighting back.

Did she ever have a self defense class.  You know the kind where you spend a week kicking this guy in a big padded suit.

Did she play in any sports or was she athletic at all.  Did she go to gym, lift weights, do areobics, run, jog?

Granted, she wouldn't have stood much of a chance against a person twice her size but it does seem like he might have gotten some marks.

From what I recall, the cars were shipped to the Netherlands for forensic examination. In that case the Netherlands Forensic Institute (http://www.forensischinstituut.nl/content/english.asp?lang=en&dID=12) will examine them and collect evidence.

For those who dream of invading Aruba.. attacking a EU member state, fellow NATO member, and fourth largest investor in your deeply-in-depth nation would be a little more than the US can currently afford.

     He must have some swell (sarcasm) friends. They sound psychotic. Why would they bear so much hatred toward a young woman they didn't know?
   Ah, well--a man is known by the comany he keeps.

marianne croes new hairstyle looks much better.

   Maybe he should hook up with Jennifer Wilbanks.

EVERYONE in the world is deathly afraid of something.  Why can't they find out what this JVDS {{edit}}  is afraid of and press him until he snaps like a twig.  Let Aruban LE look the other way...send an operative with expertise in torture in to have a little chat with {{edit}} ...and when he breaks let Aruban LE take all the credit for solving the case.  The alternative....never solve the case...but hey, at least you didn't violate {{edit}}  rights.....a small moral victory compared to solving the biggest case in the history of Aruba.

Even without GPS, they should be able to get an idea where the calls originated from because the nearest tower is used to make the connection.

On Riehl World -the link to the post is listed in another post above this one- there is a section that is just related to him and his history. Until I read that I didn't think he was a lawyer either

BHT tonight said that Natalie's room is on the ground floor with an entry from the beach.  Does this not contradict what Dash said...she said you could only enter the room from the main lobby, over a bridge, etc.?????

Excuse me Daniel, the U.S. could destroy the entire world with 1 submarine. :shock: Have a nice day! :D

yes.

YES 2NJ Mom!!  
I thought EXACTLY the same thing!!  DASH is a fake!

Sorry, I think Mariaine is cute & intelligent. OK, she's still pretty hot for PVDS. What would it take to re-arrest him?

Mariane Croes is looking like she had a makeover!!!  Oh, no OJ all over again!!!  

She did say they have to have more information each time they go before a judge to hold a suspect.  I didn't know that.

Dash is not a fake, she's a teenager who is caught up in a horrid situation.  Dash actually contributed an interview on Tom and Red's blog.

>>BHT tonight said that Natalie's room is on the ground floor with an entry from the beach. Does this not contradict what Dash said...she said you could only enter the room from the main lobby, over a bridge, etc.?????

Umm, yeya. I thought that too but thought perhaps I'd remebered it wrong.

Not a chance.  We've had pre TV appearance discussions with her. She's the only one who could tell us about the show prior to it being on TV.

The most beautiful woman there is the attorney Dan Abrams interviews.  She's a classic beauty.

Thank you...I have been lurking a long time, but I do remember details I DO read.

RichinTX, shhhhhhhhh don't let the Curacaons here that. We all say that they're the ones who do that.

All tall men need not apply for Mariaine, trust me. She'd need a stool to reach you.

That's what I was getting at a few posts ago Nancy.  She looks much better in my opinion.  Turning into a little hottie.  Not that you would care about that though.  LOL.

No I posted that People reported her rm # 7114 was ground level, w/ sliding doors opening up onto the sand.

Did any catch Geraldo mention a call to PVDS at 4am??

May 29th Sunday/  May 30th Monday.

8am-10pm       Sleep, breakfast?

10am-2pm .      
Happy Hour Snorkel Sail with depalm Tours the Afternoon of.
Take in all the pleasures of the sea by enjoying a half-day sail and snorkel experience on Aruba's newest catamaran. Lulled by the rhythm of the sea, lie on the spacious sun deck or enjoy a cocktail under the shaded cabin top. When you are ready to experience the beauty of the sea below the waterline let our friendly crew assist you as you prepare for your snorkeling adventure. Snorkeling stops include the coral-laden Antilla wreck, fish-friendly Boca Catalina and the unique Arashi reef. During your snorkel experience indulge in a delicious lunch prepared by top island chefs or sample a cool tropical drink or beer from the open bar. Any report of pot or heavy drinking?

2pm-7?pm.        
Did Nat take a nap?, shower, drink, eat? pack? take pictures?

5pm?            
Paul Van Der Sloot Arrives in Beatrix Airport with young son Valentijn? Did Joran pick up his father?

7pm-11pm       
MUSIC CONCERT Havana Beach Club
Amphitheatre (outdoor on the beach) 7-11:00 p.m.
Lauryn Hill, Boyz II Men, Hosted by Doug E. Fresh.  Chances are that did Joran meet Natalee here?  Did Mickey Jones meet Natalee and or Joran here?  Was Satish here?  Deepak was working at the Internet café. Was SGC here as well? Where the Security Guards looking for targets? Any report of pot or heavy drinking?

8pm-10pm   
Joran won 4th place in a Poker Tournament?  Was it here that Natalee met Joran for the first time? Reports from Bill O’Reilly, fellow MB student said that Joran have met Nat 2 to 3 days before.

11pm      
Paul picks up son Joran at McDonalds. Deepak closes the Internet café and little brother Satish picks Deepak up.  They then head to Jorans house to pick go to CnC.

11.30pm-1.30am.       
Carlos and Charlies. About 40 Mountain Brook student were here eating or drinking.  Scuffle broke out, reason unknown. Bryan Reynolds, 18, "There was almost a fight between my friend and him," Reynolds said they were the first people he considered as potential suspects. That was the first people who came to mind," said Reynolds, who said Holloway is one of his best friends. [http://www.postherald.com/me061005.shtml]

12.00am-1.30am       
Joran sneaks out, arrives with Kalpoes Brothers. Scuffle with Mountain Brook male student.

1.30am-2.30am      
Lie #1 Cruising at California Lighthouse,

      
Lie #2 Fisherman’s Hut/ Arashi Beach?.

1.45am      
Lie #3? Deepak and Satish drops off Joran near the Marriot Inn

2.30am-3.00am      
Joran’ s house??, Drowing, OD,Hazing, Kidnapped by SBF security?

2.40am      Joran calls Deepak via Cellphone?

3.30am      
Joran reaches home at Montana #19, Text Msg Deepak?

4.00am      
PVDS picks up his Son? Disposes the body, destroy evidence, coaches son?

I believe she said this in the beginning when VDS & Co. said they "dropped" her off at the HI.

Sorry about accusing DASH of being a fake.  I wasn't aware of her history.
My apologies.

Did it ever occur to any of you ------ that Joran actually doesn't know what happened to Natalee? If he left her at Marriott beach then someone else could have kidnapped her that we have never heard of yet. There are 100,000 people on Aruba.

Nancy, is that the former procesutor from San Fransisco or San Diego?  I get my Sans mixed up...

Ya ..but did anyone else notice a right eye wink when gretta asked if  he has changing his tory again??

Not sure I would agree with you on the last comment, but I find it interesting that the room does have an entrance to the beach side.

Check out Scarbarough.  Two new fiends on

Oh, she's little and petite too....perfect.

I have never, for a second, believed there's been any protection of the Kalpoe brothers.

I would be most interested in hearing a viable explanation as to why:

1. the van der Sloot home wasn't searched May 31?
2. the clothes of Joran, Paulus, Deepak and Satish from that night weren't taken?
3. the vehicles weren't seized immediately?
4. they waited 10 days?
5. the prosecutor has yet to interview Beth, Jug, or any of his friends who have vital information pertinent to this case?

Also, on an unrelated note, how prevalent is Santeria in Aruba?

Bendex, thanks for that.  If joran is not the one, this sounds plausible.  the happenstance encounter with bad people.  i remember some posts too, that meet your criteria but that were quite obvious.  

BTW the Holloways are truly discourage today and in desperate need of some help.  For those who have remarked on the USG role, we now see that, at least from Jug's point of view, there needs to be a lot more.  Truly depressing.

I'm only 5'11" aruba girl  would that work for her?

Did it ever occur to any of you ------ that Joran actually doesn't know what happened to Natalee? If he left her at Marriott beach then someone else could have kidnapped her that we have never heard of yet. There are 100,000 people on Aruba.

Yes, inspector.  It has.  Your point?

I think she's 5" maybe 5"1

Texas Equusearch Founder - Tim Miller on Greta's show - On the Record:

Talking about bringing in additional equipment, including sonar equipment to put on the floor of the sea.  

They will search every square inch of the island.

Showed some interest in a lake today not too far from the family's house.

No, of course it never occurred to us.  We are too dumb.  We have all gathered at the board to learn at the feet of the master.  Please enlighten us.

In otherwords, there is no need to address the people on this board in a condesending manner.

Sure, or most of it anyway. But like I said, it cannot afford to.

No, but it's clear she worked at it tonight!!!

[He was originally from Boxtel, The Netherlands - in Noord-Brabant. This is in the southern part of the country, very near Belgium (Antwerp) and not far from Germany (Essen/Dusseldorf).  He later moved to Arnehm, which is not far, either.  Sort of the 3rd point of a triangle from Boxtel to Arnehm to Amsterdam.]

Snip about his education:

~~~~~~~~~
Tilburg

Van der Sloot (53) got his legal education at the University of Tilburg in the seventies. He co-founded the Legal Faculty Association Tilburg and also the faculty newspaper ‘Nondejure'. After he finished his studies he did not went to work for the government, but assisted citizens that had conflicts with the government.  It was in that period in Arnhem, where he met a woman Anita (teacher of Artistic Formation) and it was also there were Joran and Valentijn, two of his three suns, were born.
~~~~~~~~~~


[What caught my eye was that Paulus had fought for 20 years to keep a freeway from being built through his "family's estate" in that area.  It is also described as "scenic, valuable" territory.  My thinking is that the van der Sloot's may have been an "old money" wealthy family there.  Or, like some Europeans, an old, noble family, which is now land-rich and cash-poor.  Interesting, anyway.

I found someone in that area who may be his sister or cousin (doing family history research and testifying), a family member, but would have to do more research to make sure.]

Inspector ...
yes I / we have   ... but then whay the HI lie....  Whay has he not asked for a lie-dector test..  Or any of the suspects

Geraldo said, (I don't know if this is true, but he said police have evidence) of a cell phone call to one of the Kalpoe bros at 2:30 am asking for a ride, then a text message to same at 3:15 that he didn't need it after all, then Paul picked him up and gave him a ride home at 4 am.

He made it sound like the record of the calls were definetely in police records, but also suggested he'd like to have a record of all the cell phone calls and the locations for where the phone calls came from. (i.e. the cell tower location, though I'm not sure whether there would be more than 1 or 2 on the island. )

That other lawyer, Arlene Allan Schiffer..looks pretty as well. Maybe the accent is so endearing.

Tim from Equasearch mentioned finding the spot today, again to Greta.  He said they sent divers down and that the area is not fully cleared yet.  The way he said it made it sound like he still thinks it might be promising...

So the ES head said something like they had 2 hits on a pretty good sized lake that haven't been resolved. Heh, blogs aren't so bad and the MSM's are perhaps a bit gunshy now. I really doubt they're 'holding back'. Any details on the Dutch media frenzy today Aruba ppl?

1. the van der Sloot home wasn't searched May 31? Was there a search warrant?
2. the clothes of Joran, Paulus, Deepak and Satish from that night weren't taken? How do you know that they weren't taken?
3. the vehicles weren't seized immediately? Good question
4. they waited 10 days? The question that everyone has been asking
5. the prosecutor has yet to interview Beth, Jug, or any of his friends who have vital information pertinent to this case? How do you know they haven't?

My point is: The police in Aruba aren't the brightest ever, (sorry Jossy Mansur), but they are NOT NOT NOT covering up for the three boys.

You can call them inept, you can call them stupid, because imho opinion they have shown evidence of that. But they're covering up? I don't buy it. I don't see any reason to. Paul v/d S doesn't have any influence, despite his lawyer status.

I was VERY surprised to learn that Aruba had a Carlos and Charlies. I knew about the ones in Mexico etc, but Aruba has never been known (to me) as a big party island that attracts the party-hardy type of American tourist. A lot of American tourists make a beeline for the wildest party places they can find- Cancun etc. I was on a cruise one time where it seemed like EVERYONE was planning on hitting all the bars and party boats and drinking holes, and their vacation itenerary (sp?) was to get hammered and get crazy. But my friends who have gone to Aruba have gone there and loved the peace and quiet- they didn't say it was boring at all, just more relaxing than the party-party-party locales such as Cancun and Cozumel. I wouldn't have a clue never having been to Aruba but it seems like maybe in the past 10 years the tourist atmosphere is changing to attract some of the party-seekers? Well, with that, will come more incidences - not major ones like Natalee Holloway situation, and I'm not knocking CnC or other party bars...but it just seems like they add more disruption FROM American tourists.

Another peeve of mine is hearing people complain about "creepy locals" hanging out at these bars. Where else are they going to be? And they're probably not that creepy. I'd be more creeped out by the rowdy, stupid acting, drunken tourists. If I was a local to a CnC I'd go people watching for fun. There's always that one lady who has too much to drink and loses her top- seems to be one in every crowd. On the cruiseship I am referring to in this post, an American got drunk and wandered into the buffet at lunchtime with her top unbuttoned all the way down.

I do NOT place blame on tourists for partying down at these places, it can be fun...I just place blame on Americans who blame the bar or the country when something happens. A barfight, being pickpocketed while drunk, etc.

I am SURE Natalee felt like she was in no harm and whatever has happened to her is not her fault...I'm thinking it definitely wasn't premeditated, something just went awry. I'm just hating this whole situation...the "blame the victim"..."criticize the Arubans".....AND whoever is responsible for what happened to Natalee....the media hounds.....the families who will be destroyed by this....the whole thing stinks.

But back to my point, I was truly surprised when I heard the kids on the Aruba trip were in CnC's just because I had no idea Aruba would have one. I know CnCs has been expanding....but was like "in Aruba??? Nooo not Aruba! It's been there for how many years??? Really???"  :lol:

Sorry, DivaToo, I didn't see your post and I was just recalling a post from Dash where she said that Natalee's room was like hers, and could only be accessed from the main entrance, and over a bridge.  I've stayed in resorts and know that rooms have sliding doors to a deck or the pool level, which would lead to the beach.

It was just an observation....

Right, he left her at the beach.  When he learned she was missing, he and his friends got together and came up with a great lie because....?????  I just don't get that part.  Where did they get the idea of the security guards?  If Nat was kidnapped by someone unknown by VDS & Co., why didn't they make up some other kind of lie that left her in the company of some other tourists or students?  Why would those boys try to get the security guards into trouble?  Please give me an explanation that is not a cover up of some guilty deed.

Arubagirl,

You'll be interested to know that Tim from Equasearch just said when his daughter was missing he had no more help and cooperation from US law enforcement than Natalee's family is getting in Aruba.  I may be saying that wrong..but, basically he said he had a horrible time being heard.

My point is that everyone keeps thinking up different ways to beat the information out of Joran.

Maybe Joran doesn't know what happened to Natalee? - could that explain why he hasn't "talked" yet. :roll:

Maybe Natalee is still alive? - could that explain why Natalee's body hasn't been found ? (apparantly to everyones disappointment) :roll:

When Mr. Moustage said 4am as a matter of factly that is a major miles stone.... I been eager to track all times during the dates of sunday/monday..4am seems very odd, it implicates PVDS directly to the dissapearance.  I also gives Joran about 2 hrs with Nat at the beach.

Initially (and not unreasonably) LE assumed that Natalee had run away and was in hiding.  The best way to locate her and quiet the clamor was to locate Nat.  Ergo, the best approach was to wire the boys, particularly Joran whom they assumed she was involved romantically.

At least that's my theory and I don't think it was unreasonable for LE to act that way.  Wrong, yes, unreasonable, no.

The classic beauty, lawyer is on now. Arlene something?

I thought I imagined that!  guess not - not sure if it was involuntary, or if it actually meant something though!

Carlos & Charlie's started out to be very strict. No one under 21 and they did check rigourously.

Then it was no one under 18, but they did check.

Now? Barely checking.

Dash said in her interview with Scared Monkeys that she didn't think it was a wild place, maybe I'm showing my naieve small town roots here, but I find it a pretty wild place. But that's just my opinion.

Well... "on the other side", since Aruba is just 20 miles to Venezuela... my $90 calls on crude for sure will "paid" the time I spend here.  :wink:  Just kidding... ooops, I'm european too! 8)

Apparantly that lie is what kept them out of prison. (for a while) It seems under Dutch law that if you're the last person seen with someone that went missing, you're automatically guilty of murdering that person...

I miss CaliGirl!  She was going to have spinal surgery.  Anyone remember whether she said it was today or tomorrow (Tuesday)?

Inept?  Stupid?  No!  They made mistakes.  They were not prepared for anything like this.  Their pride got in the way a bit too, but I doubt there is an LE cover up.

so am I... :D
Dynomite comes in Small packages........hats off to Maryanne
I think she's going to crack this case......

She's red haired like me.  She is a hottie Nancy.  Somehow I have missed her previously.

I was hoping they would release Joran and let the bothers know he was released.  Orchestrate it so the brothers get the impression Joran is totally free for good.  If they could do that and pick Joran up again those brothers would sing like canaries.

Alan-Schiffer I believe .. Yah! The arubian accent definately is a derivative of the dutch added with some carribean swing.

Oh, OK...so he lied..

A. To be funny
B. As a graduation prank
C. Because he wanted to see what the inside of the jails looked like.
D. To see how good of a liar he could be
E.  Because being incarcerated and interrogated seemed like a really cool alternative to spending his summer gambling and flirting with other american tourist girls.


Take your pick inspector.

When they returned from the casino to Joran's house he was outside leaning against a car with Deepak.

Nope, you have to go through the hotel either through the front enterance (inside) or through the hotel/ outdoor restraunt part. Then you walk over a little bridge to the building we stayed in.

from

http://scaredmonkeys.com/Discussion/viewtopic.php?p=36949&highlight=bridge#36949[/quote]
=======

edit to give up on making the quotes come out right, it is a paste of quotes within quotes

bendex

I have a totally weird post for you from Saturday 6-10-05 late into the night.  She tried to convince the board that Natalee was just a runaway situation.

I'll look it up, it will take a minute.

candy_girl, she's certainly smart enough. Her grades were top-notch in highschool. I think she graduated 4th in her year, not positive.

Is her hair red?  Looks dark to me. She's gorgeous...
Now's your chance, hop a plane!

Thanks for clearing that up AG; and giving input on what the judicial system is like there. I was wondering about the Dutch and Arubans.

 

She is a Dutch speaker, thats why, we saw her on Dutch TV here last nite courtesy of a link posted.   She is quite cute and very good.  She explains the process concisely and never lets out one thing she is not supposed to.  That said, her beautiful eyes did twinkle when Greta asked about electronic surveillance, cell and email records.  She said e check everything,  She said we have Dutch help.  She said the porsecutor does not talk to the Twittys but could.  Attorney Schippers is not bad either.  Beautiful green eyes.

I guess I'd like to give the authorities the benefit of the doubt that they were sooner corrupt than grossly incompetent.

If they didn't have a search warrant, why wouldn't they obtain one immediately?  There was certainly enough circumstantial evidence to obtain one.

(With heavy grain of salt) Geraldo reported tonight that the clothes of the kids from that night were NOT taken.

Beth told Greta in tonight's interview that the prosecutor has never approached Beth or Jug to ascertain any information.  From their encounter that first night alone, there is critical, invaluable information needed to secure an indictment and conviction.

I can not dismiss the possibility of preferential treatment solely because of the 10-day grace period they were extended, and the fact they were given more than ample time to sanitize any incriminating evidence.

Did tapes from the Casion confirm that they were there or are we going on waht has been said?

iquitos, she's not Dutch, she speaks it of course, maybe when she went to school there?

Arubagirl- would you care to please tell me the time there in Aruba

Scott, okay, but why?

candy: 10:51 pm I have it on my computer.

!. Natalee is an adult, there was no reason to believe she was a victim of a crime on 5/31. I really hope that in the US, police are not permitted to enter people's homes and search in such circumstances. Maybe the law protects criminals, but it also protects innocent people. The government should not be allowed to search your property at will.

2. ditto

3. Again, the same

4. Stupidity and pressure from the Arubian gov't who wanted to sweep it under the road, combined with pressure from the US and the Twittys

5. Hostility between the parties?  Very strange, if true. What is the source?

Did I hear this newspaper freak correctly, that there will be more arrests in a few days?

=======

edit to give up on making the quotes come out right, it is a paste of quotes within quotes[/quote]\\

That's the ticket, Ting.  A flag went up when I heard that....not that it means anything...

 Arubagirl, I'm not buying the cover-up story either, just wanted to add to the post.  I also know you don't get Fox, so you wouldn't even know that Beth and Jug just said they haven't spoke to the prosecutor.   My fear is that a lot of evidence was ruined / lost / gotten rid of in the amount of time that it took them to really start investigating.  Not a cover-up, perhaps just some inexperience.  Inexperience that could/would happen in many small towns right here in America, so please don't take offense!   :)

what newspaper freak and if it's from Diario, I'm not believing it.

Think of THAT book!

Naw, they'd prolly hold out for a movie deal.

Jossey Mansur - Relatively sure that more arrests are coming.

You got it!  Heeeeeee's  Baaaaaaccccckkkkkkkk.

\\

That's the ticket, Ting.  A flag went up when I heard that....not that it means anything...[/quote]

Well the school kids were there for a few days, and I doubt many of them spent a lot of time in their rooms, and Mrs. Beth has been in the room for almost a month, so...

They've never spoken to the prosecutor? WTF?

The only reason that I CAN think of (and it's pretty stupd) is that the prosecutor can't seem to be too biased for the victim's family.

Again, I said it's a stupd reason.

Ugh, Geraldo, please, please, please take Jossy Mansur with you.

I was very surprised to hear that also, and it was uncalled for. I think that the release of PVDS was crushing to Nat's family. They saw the PVDS arrest, as many others did, as the last chance to get Joren to talk. When PVDS agreed to waive the right of testifying against Joren he, in effect, locked his fate with Joren. The PVDS arrest actually solidified the VDS defense instead of breaking it. And then PVDS was released. Nat's family is starting to feel helpless and more of the the same type of personal accusations can be expected if these boys are released one by one and the case stalls. tough to blame Nat's family though.

Greta asked Beth this question tonight and I thought she said it DID open onto the sand.

  Yes, a remake of "Two for the Road."

Don't get too excited about what he says, or any of the Aruban media, or government officials. They are required to protect Aruba's image.

Well it was said that PVDS is still a suspect even if they couldn't convince the judge to hold him.

another monkey, again, I can tell you, that Diario is not at ALL a fan of the current government. Please, read the articles.

WHY in the name of heavens do people think that everyone listens to the Aruban government? Please someone please explain me that.

<<

But the prime and only suspects were released for ten days, plenty of time to destroy all forensic evidence and the VDS home was not even searched until their second arrests.  What's the point, why bother after they had ten days to cover their trails?  And so much of the island has not been searched until this day with the elements destorying any forensic clues.  The FBI brought divers at the beginning and they would not use them, refused to allow them to search.  Why?  Lots of resources were offered and rejected.  There are 200 Dutch marines sitting on the island and no searches being conducted locally.  Geraldo *ugh* even asked their commander if they would help and he said no.  I have to ask why?

Deepak was even seen washing his car, etc.  Instead all we got were these smug lectures about how we have to respect the legal system of another country (as though we have any choice in the matter) and how we have more crime than Aruba yet they will not accept that we would therefore know more about investigations.  All our experience should make us extremely proficient, should it not?  BTW, we have a lower crime rate than much of the EU, especially Great Britain's stats come to mind.  We are so much larger that the number is therefore greater but not proportionately.

So we have waited and waited and waited patiently, respecting the Legal system and the cultures and traditions and listening to all the lectures and what is wrong with our own country, a litany of unsolved crimes here and how much all of you hate us ugly Americans all the rest and now nothing.  No solution, no body, no evidence.  A legal system is only as good as those enforcing it and in this case it just reeks of a cover up.  Why not use the resources offered?  Why not have the Dutch marines searching?  

BTW, Americans in general have never deluded themselves that we have any friends in the EU as one of its main reasons for being is to challenge the US politically and economically.  Your own euro is not looking so good itself about now but this is not a political forum.  And we do not need reminding hourly of our shortcomings but in this instance we are the victims and it is an American who is missing and about whom so very little has been done, our offers to help rejected and our own LE blocked from any participation.  

And we should not complain about any of this?  I don't understand.  It is our citizen missing and we should just take having her, her family and friends bashed and trashed, our offers of help not just rejected but blocked, DNA evidence destroyed and suspects given every opportunity to cover their trails.  All we get is the Hate America routine which, frankly, Scarlett, has worn really thin.  We should care about this because???  When one of ours is missing, we can count on our friends to do everything to help recover her??  We know there is no friendship there, never has been really unless we were paying for things but it would seem  that the almighty dollar that is all they seem to care about would have brought a better response than this.  Hate us all you like, I personally don't care but we do pay our bills.  That is all that is wanted of us, right?  So we have fulfilled our part of the bargain and get nothing for it.

 :evil:   Sorry, don't mean to rant but I am overdosed on being told what is wrong with my own country as an answer for why this case was so bungled if it was not a deliberate cover up.  And a little research might just show that there were no leads, no DNA to take and no knows suspects in many of those which is certainly not the case in this instance.

This was a question asked tonight by Greta...they have not talked to the prosecutor AT ALL!!!  They did say though that this is something they will now try to do.

When Greta asked them, it seemed to take them by surprise....like they had never even thought about it.

No kidding, that was terrible for all parties. I have a nagging feeling the MSM will be throwing a lot less money at this after the 4th.

 the twittys would not normally talk to the prosecutor.  any information they have would be given to the police and they have been working with the police since day one.

Required as in "required by law" ???????  :?

Ok people... We have been here pouring over and spouting our rumors and concerns over this case. It's time to take action and pressure our elected officials in the USA to turn up the heat in this case.

I have just sent emails to my elected officials, the FBI and the Dutch government offices in the Netherlands and Washington DC. Tomorrow I start my telephone calls to the same, and will keep calling and resending each day.

Let's go, all of you seem fairly capable of contacting these offices as well.

Here's a head start on contacts:

http://www.netherlands-embassy.org/location.asp

 Netherlands Consulate
New Orleans, la
<edited phone numbers - no phone numbers allowed on the board>
netherlandsconsulate@mcglinchey.com (email)

 Netherlands Embassy
Washington, DC
<edited phone numbers - no phone numbers allowed on the the board>
was@minbuza.nl (email)
www.netherlands-embassy.org (website)

FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/contactus.htm

US Government contacts;
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/dbq/officials/


Start sending money to the Holloway fund or Texas Equusearch:

http://www.amsouth.com/special/natalee.asp
http://www.texasequusearch.org/index.htm

Here is more contact info:

http://www.selmatimesjournal.com/articles/2005/06/27/news/letters/letter930.txt

It's time to start loading down other networks, and not just the bloggers. Let's show the US, Aruba and the Netherlands what we are made up. Keep the pressure HIGH!!!!!!!!!!

Please post other offices to contact, along with their phone and web/email addresses.



icey

I think it may be another one of those famous "cultural differences."

Americans are *extremely* loyal to their government, and maybe project that onto other people.

From all appearances, she look like a real smart one and professional.
I'm glad she keeps the important info., tight lipped personally,
I worry that too many leaks out will ruin the case.
I've also been wondering, where is all the info. the media and such getting their info., when they state; from sources close to the case?
Does this in any way hinder or hurt the case?
thanks much for your input? very appreciated.....

WHY in the name of heavens do people think that everyone listens to the Aruban government? Please someone please explain me that

Because we listen to our gov't here, Arubagirl.  They're relating it to our own experiences in this country......

Anna, the brothers Kalpoe were washing their car at 2 / 3am. I know that y'all have your own system, but in ours, we have to have evidence before we arrest two people for washing a car. This little thing we have, please forgive us.

And let me tell you that I'm getting BEYOND tired of having to explain ourselves over and over and over and over again to people who have not been here for more than a month at the most.

Anna, seriously, if an Aruban girl went missing in the States, would it be allright with you if the Aruban police stepped in? That'd be just peachy, right? The families plan to sue your prosecution's office, that's logical too, right?

Icey    What do you want to be when you grow up?

Beth and Jug seemed really demoralized by Paulus van der Sloot's release.  They were much more critical of the investigation than they have been in recent days.

bendex check your PMs.

So everything that your government tells you, that's accepted as fact?

Uhm, okay.

The hell there wasn't!!!  Natalee was supposed to be back home by then.  She was a missing person on a small island, and there was every reason to believe, on strictly the reaction of Joran and Paulus, that foul play was involved.  



Who said anything about searching at will???  That's what a search warrant is for, and there were more than enough grounds of reasonable suspicion to issue one immediately.

Noticed some hedging in his responses to Gretta...how'm I doin', out of lurk mode.  So much to think about and nothing definite in the process.

Jossy Mansur sure comes accross as a prosecutioner, judge and hangman for the suspects.  Rightly or Wrongly, I wish he did not interject his personal opinion.  Im sure the FBI has a file on Jossy somewhere...and if I believe correctly one of his brothers use to be called Don.

=======

edit to give up on making the quotes come out right, it is a paste of quotes within quotes[/quote]\\

That's the ticket, Ting.  A flag went up when I heard that....not that it means anything...[/quote]

Well the school kids were there for a few days, and I doubt many of them spent a lot of time in their rooms, and Mrs. Beth has been in the room for almost a month, so...[/quote]

Typing in color, b/c I can't figure out how to eliminate some of the quotes, but not others.  Anyway, People magazine did report that you could walk out from a sliding glass door, which BHT confirmed tonight.  That being said, I stay in hotels a lot, and most, especially first floor rooms, lock automatically for safety reasons.  Anybody been to the hotel that could confirm that?

I'm sorry...what are you asking? Why what?

News media reporters are using Cherry Picker trucks to get a view "over the fence" of the jail and get photography of VDSs and Kalpoes.

Telearuba

http://nataleeholloway.tripod.com/


Also showed videotape of scuba divers searching pond at MOKO (aka quarry at MOKO - just east of Montana - location of Joran's house - see map at http://www.arubatoday.com/week/monday/).

it was Monkey C who asked, but thanks I was wondering that too. It's 10:11pm in iowa

Plus, if I'm not mistaken this is the same guy who said they was chasing a car with Natalee in it.

why the preferential treatment

arubagirl, to my perception it is more like a very strong religious faith.

Nancy, not the same guy, but it was one of his reporters

Companani, did Don Mansur die? I know he was very ill, but I can't seem to recall that he died.

I'm pretty sure that everyone with the last name Mansur has a file.

I agree with Geraldo on one thing, if they don't find a body everybody walks.  I think that's the sad truth.

Ting, wow. Just....wow

Oh boy...

Geraldo is now asking for O'Reilly's  help to get the Dutch Marines released to help with the search.  They are really going after LE...

Edited twice because my eyes are so tired, I can't type!

We get both information and disinformation from our government, imo.  Certain areas I question more than others.

(repeat question:  anyone know when Caligirl's surgery was?  Today?  Tomorrow?)

My sentiments exactly, when they aren't "YIKES!"

At this point, we are getting off the topic of Natalee, and it is my hope that the subject does not enter the territory of "on-topic," but I am afraid I am not optimistic about that.

Guys, uhm, the Dutch can only assist if the Aruban government asks them too. It's a police investigation, not pertaining to defense or foreign affairs.

Just don't diverge too far and we're cool :)

That's why I think Joran is holding out.  Why confess if there's a chance he can get away with it?

 You go, girl!  Your heart is in it.

I question most everything, especially the government.

I hate to burst your bubbles, but we are not the only people involved who know all the answers or care about Natalee and her family.

You make matters worse when you flood these offices with calls demanding the obvious.  The people in Aruba will make mistakes, as we all do, but they are bright, caring, and are working with our FBI.

 

aruba girl, IMO Americans have had a healthy disrust of government since the founding of the republic and i do not think anything has changed.  it is written right into the constitution.  there is plenty of reason not to trust the government.   Look at this case.  They (politicians, FBI) make a show of helping out and in the end poor jug realizes he has been had by them too as he clearly had written all over his face and as much as said tonight.  I liked the jug i saw tonight.  he pressed all the buttons, put his all into it and it has come to this a month later.   no natalee, not body no case that we can tell.

Diasabra famia, conocirnan y amigonan a compania Rene Michel  van Heyningen na  su ultimo lugar di sosego.

Saturday... family, acquaintances, and friends accompanied Rene Michel van Heynigen to his last place of rest.


Un muher cu a duna di conoce cu e ta compañera di Rene, ta trata aki di e muher  Yesenia  Castillo naci na Republica Domincana riba 18 di febriuari 1976, cu a yega na e direccion e mainta ey y a bati alarma na polis.

A woman who made it known that she is the companion of Rene, Yesenia Castillo, born in Dominican Republic on Feb 18, 1976 was the one who found him dead that morning and called 911  (ok it s not a literal translation)..the police arrest her and till now she is still in custody, and  she did not attend the funeral...hightlight or the unusual, the victim was so brutally attack with a machete that his head was virtually lopped off.  Police is still compiling the case and info call the San Nicolas Police...

They have NEVER been anything other than critical of any actual investigation. They go on gut feelings and in their gut JVDS is guilty. Too bad really. Maybe JVDS is but maybe he is not but they have been frothing at the month for a month. How someone really find this girl?

<<

Scott,
I couldn't agree more.  I don't know for whom or what the cover up is about but there is nothing else I can think of that would explain all these failures to follow even basic investigative techniques.  

One could say they were incompetent and did not know how to conduct this kind of investigation but they had some of the FBI's best at their beck and call.  They wouldn't even allow the divers to look at first when maybe some DNA could be preserved.

I wonder if they are counting on the psychological shift that so often happens in these cases--with the victim out of sight, people start to empathize with the perpetrator.  Out of sight, out of mind, and they think this will prevent any reprecussions to their tourist industry.  Stall long enough and Natalee starts to fade but there is poor little Joren, in jail, etc.  It happens and is a well-known phenomenon to LE.

It matters not whether the door in Natalee's room opened to the beach.  Her mother stated categorically that at no time did Natalee return to her hotel room after leaving Carlos and Charlie's that night.

Ting, where are you posting from?  I've noticed for the last few days/nights, you never miss an opportunity to get in a dig at the United States.

Channel 13 in Birmingham  just interviewed one of the students,,was reading and missed their timeline,,for Natalee,but should be on their web site tomorrow,,

The young guy was very emphatic,,had some video,,even with Joran on it,,that he had been around all week,,they thought he was a tourist ,,,like them,,,and that Natalee did not hang out with him exclusively at CnCs..danced with her group,,,,but all of the girls and guys were not suspicious of him at all...

I saw pictures,,and did see Joran on the video...He was around much more that Sunday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Exactly. I'm sure dear old Dad told him from day one to stay quiet no matter what!  I sure wouldn't want to be him walking around given the way people feel...but, let's hope Tim finds something.

That was another Dairio Newspaper reporter by the name of Hebert Teal.

Anna, why the cover-up, for whom?

It would be a good idea to analyse the video and watch for anyone watching Natalee exclusively.  Maybe roving eyes may hold the key.

>>They have NEVER been anything other than critical of any actual investigation.

Not true from my observations:

1. PISSED
2. Had a talking-to by the FBI that being pissed would only harm the investigation, CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC
3. PISSED again for good.

ArubaGirl....just returned home from work....how do you know they were washing their car at 2 - 3 am???

Thanks for everything you do!

I hope LE has asked to see the clothes he was wearing that night.

Woah, I just saw the quotes by Ting and RB.  Huuuuuge generalization there!  As not to get into non-topic details, let me just say that sure the hell doesn't apply to me!!

As for how the investigation is being investigated, yes, I think the investigation got off to a bad start, and they aren't prepared for a crime like this.  But of course, that's expected.  I live in a city of 20,000 that has very little crime (a murder every 10 years).  Several years ago, a fugitive robbed a bank and ended up going through town.  The police were so ill prepared for such a situation that our police chief was actually shot and killed by one of his own officers...

This was the kid's video,,,as any vacation video would be,,he was just in the crowd with them,,,,

I agree! And, I think they're upset with good reason. They've been in Aruba for a month. They need to be able to get their daughter and go home. No one should fault them for being upset!! I think it's a very normal, parental expression. I mean, who can honestly say that after a month you wouldn't be going crazy?!?!?!?!

Woah, I just saw the quotes by Ting and RB. Huuuuuge generalization there! As not to get into non-topic details, let me just say that sure the hell doesn't apply to me!!

Maybe you're right, PSD.  I probably should have made that a question rather than a statement :)  Want me to go back and edit? :)

Geraldo reported tonight that they never took the clothes, AND they never really did any tailing of the three boys during the time they were free.

Luna, neighbour is a sister of my mom's co-worker.

pissed but no vinegar.  he was visibly distracted and did not want to be with greta either.  i wish greta would get out there and solve this thing.  note she is considering all the crazy theories we are.

Arubagirl,  gang  I am outta here for the night.  Take care.

I hope they analyze any and all video to see if anything was getting slipped into drinks.

Goodnight, rogers

Wow, that's interesting.  Did you happen to notice if Jaron was wearing one of his "lucky" blue and white plaid shirts that night?

Edited: Is it known if the video was taken on Sunday the 29th?

Agreed, to an extent.  There has been information exchanged in this forum that was taken as fact, which many based their theories on, including the room access.  None of us have any knowledge of who was in that room and when, but have to presume that her mother does.  A question was asked, answered, that's all.  It's still not fact...because we were not there, and mom's info is heresay.....a lot of this is.  

I want Natalee to be found alive weeks ago.  Doesn't change a thing.

I am in the United States right now. It is not intended as a dig at your culture or values, just an observation. The world is a big place, and it would be dishonest to say that US policies enjoy the same popularity worldwide as they do in American hearts.

Maybe you will start a topic in the appropriate place if you want to discuss this further, since it is not yet really relevant to Natalee, and as I said, I hope it will not become so.

Interesting update at Dan's.  Nothing earthshaking, but interesting...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/

Troubling Developments In Search Activities

Have received multiple and confirmed reports of problems developing in search procedures resulting from interference by the press. Initial reports suggest main point of interference from "foreign," press, also identified as some members of the Dutch press. "Foreign" not fully accurate relative to geography, but more a reflection of primarily American make-up of portions of search team.

At least one report of rocks being tossed in water and slurs being yelled at searchers from professional individuals sporting camera equipment which suggests their identification as members of press is reliable.

Acts of interference said to also include entering the water in and around divers, roiling water and otherwise getting in their way. Have been informed of at least one attempt to call individuals together in an attempt to settle things down so search could continue.

Additional reports suggest some members of search team may have also been more confrontational than necessary. Report reliable, but unconfirmed from additional contact at this time.

Keep in mind that multiple locations are being searched at the same time by different groups; conflicts in reports can stem from incidents at different locations.

Many locations which may have provided suspected individuals with quick access to likely disposal points yet to be searched, or searched completely.

Thanks Aruba!

And, if it's not too much trouble, could you pls tell me the highlights of Greta tonight?  Before I left work, I heard Geraldo's new info on the PvdS pickup of Joran at 4 am...

Did Greta have anything new?

gracias...  ps how do you say thank you in papiamento?

FWIW, a few days ago, Tim Miller with TX EquuSearch said for us not to sell the Aruban LE short--he said they've done a very good job and they know much, much more than what the public thinks they do.

Maybe he felt he *had* to say that, in order to secure their further cooperation, but he's been on the inside of 450 missing persons' investigations, so I'm going take his word for it, in hopes of having a resolution to Natalee's disappearance.

If true, this could help explain why Tim Miller seemed so discouraged in interviews tonight.

Are you refering to the fact that the TX Equusearch is running into overly agressive reporters hampering some of their search?

Luna, can't get Fox.

And it's 'danki'. :)

<<

Arubagirl--I am sorry you do not like my posting and do not feel I should participate but Natalee has been missing only about a month.  Where did I even address YOU?  I was speaking to Scott and did not ask you for ANYTHING at all.  I know you have addressed those questions previously and to the best of your abilities.  

So only those who have been here for over a month are allowed to post?  I did not know that, sorry.  

But where did I ask YOU to explain anything at all?  I don't believe that I did and if I did so, it was not intentional as I was speaking in support of Scott and his questions, not about your answers, for yes, I have seen them before.

So show me where I asked you and I will certainly apologize immediately.  But for the record, I do hope our LE would accept help from any with more expertise in certain areas and think that they do routinely as in mountain patrols, etc. where others can better do the job.  What is your source that the families are suing the prosecution?  And should they do so, you do realize it is for information that they are asking, and not money?

So sorry but I was not responding to your post at all and not asking you to answer anything for me.

Don't forgot, they went to the VDS house the night they arrived in Aruba and much of their opinion of the son and dad is based on their behavior that night.

Well, danki, then!!

Damn!  I hate that I missed that.  Do you remember the student's name?

Arubagirl,

What's this about the Kalpoes washing their car at 2/3 am? The morning Natalee disappeared?

arubagirl  -- I have a question for you.

Do y'all take siestas there?  I mean, are the hours of business and dinner different from in the states?  Just trying to get a handle on the late night hours of the Island teens for others who keep questioning it, if any of that is applicable.

So, I can only answer to posts answered directly to me?

All righty then. Is that a new rule? I think I missed that one.

Well, certainly people who have never been here have not gotten that much credibility in talking about something. I was talking about people being on the ISLAND. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

That's like saying that everybody in the U.S. are religious freaks while never having been there.

I don't mind anyone posting, but by God if you're going to attack my HOME, then you better have something to back it up. Sorry if THAT offends YOU.

Itawamba, no siestas, unfortunately. That's a good idea, actually, hmmm.

i imagine since the us press has been on top of this story and it is just catching on in holland that they forgot to coordinate with the dutch press that just showed up.  i think they had a deal with the us press not to follow them around or report details for operational security reasons.  if the crooks are tipped off they are getting warm they might just move the body somewhere else.  that is why you don't see a lot of real time coverage of the search.  they don't want the crooks to know.  which crooks?  good question.. and reihl ought to clam up on this subject too since he is wrong often anyway.

>>I don't mind anyone posting, but by God if you're going to attack my HOME, then you better have something to back it up. Sorry if THAT offends YOU.

arubagirl, you're just about perfect, but ya gotta learn to scroll through this bait girl. :)

LOL... a "little" bully but not "entirely" smart at all.  :lol:

How is this even remotely relevant to anything regarding Natalee or the investigation.  The US is not without its own problems by far.  Not only in the US itself but abroad.  Criminal investigations, missing persons investigations, and government operations here in the US are by far not perfect.  Our military strength has absolutely nothing to do with this case and our military and our government have absolutely no business in Aruba unless invited.  It's not our country, they seem to do just fine without our government meddling in their business and they certainly do not need to be invaded by us.  The point here is that just because we may not agree with how this investigation has been conducted, we don't know what they have and don't have and we would be really pi-sed if another country invaded us or blasted our LE or bashed our country if we were unable to find one of their missing persons in the US.

Very good idea--makes a lot of sense in tropical climates.  *I* observe the custom here in TX, but no one else does, lol!

OK. Can we get these times straightened out? I don't have cable, so I don't know what was said on CNN or FOX tonight about it. Tell me what's wrong here. And if it's right, tell me how we know that.

1. We have Geraldo saying PvdS picked Joran up at 4 AM on the night Natalee disappeared

2. Joran called Deepak for a ride, then text messaged nevermind he had another ride

3. Geraldo says JVDS first text message to Deepak for a ride home, then secound text messages an hour later, "never mind he's got a ride". PVDS picks JVdS up at 3:00 pm and takes him home.

4. then we have satish's lawyer saying:
 2:40 - Joran Calls Deepak and says he's walking home and will email when he gets home
 3:15 - Joran Text messages Deepak - he's home  

5. Someone making 2 ATM withdrawls @ 3:00 am and 3:45 am. If this is true and if it was Paul, could it be he was gambling and away from the house, meaning more incentive for Joran (& friends) to take Natalee back to the house where they were alone.

6. Do we know for sure that Valentijn came back on Sunday with the father? Or did he come back on Wednesday with Anita?

I have to ask, if it were your child, and you had no answers, how would you react?  I think that if this exact same scenario was occuring in Tybee Island, GA, Miami Beach, FL, or the beaches of Greece, they would be reacting the same way.  They don't have their daughter, they don't know what else to do to find her, and they are angry.  I have heard them say several times that they know LE in Aruba are doing their job.  That being said, they don't feel any closer to finding Natalee than the day they arrived on the island.  I don't believe that their sentiments / lashing out / anger would subside if this were being handled in any other city or country.  The fact that it's in Aruba is almost a moot point.  It sucks for the good citizens of the country, whose island is receiving a "bad name" (by some) because of the actions of a few individuals.  I don't think the majority of people (or at least myself) blame it on the island or the peopel on the island.  There are bad seeds everywhere, this just happens to be there.  

It's a natural reaction to be angry and lash out wherever you can when you are hurt, upset, worried sick, and scared.  Should it be directed at the Aruban LE?  Maybe, maybe not.  Since none of us are intimately involved with the investigation or the hearings or the interrogations we really don't have much right to pass any judgment, as we don't REALLY know much of anything about the case.  

It all boils down to the fact that she's their 18 year old daughter.  Yes, she's legally an adult, but to a parent she's their "baby girl" and they will do whatever it takes to find her and bring her home -- dead or alive.  Her mother said tonight that she will stay there forever if that's what it takes.  I admire their courage, their discipline, their hope and their love for their child.  Perhaps Jug comes across a little too strongly at times, but he doesn't know how else to cope with the blow he's been dealt.  That's why so many people are so attached to this case.  Natalee could be anybody's daughter, and we all want her to be found alive and safe to take this family out of the depths of hell they feel they are in.

Okay....so can anyone else help me out here?

I know from Geraldo (and absolut!) that Joran called Deepak at 2:30, texed (is that a word not associated with Texas?) him at 3:15 (some confustion over what was said: either he got a ride per the attny yesterday or never mind per Geraldo tonight) and that his dad picked him up at 4 am.

Also, seems to be some confirmation that PvdS was sighted around 3 - 4 at McD's.

I gather that there is still some confusion re SGC....apparently he "lied from the bottom of his heart" re seeing the HI dropoff and yet also reported (voluntarily) a convo he overheard by Deepak....

Did Greta have anything new to add to the picture?

danki...

Has Geraldo's reporting been believable for those of you that have watched it?  Do his statements seem verified?

 

aruba girl, you can post to anybody you want as far as i am concerned, you are golden.  your paticipation here is invaluable to those of us who want to understand this thing.  your treatise on the partiality issue was insightful.  thanks again.  sorry we ask so many questions.  i will repeat my mantra:  listen to the arubans, there are no secrets on the island.

Kipster, I promse I'm trying, but it's really really really hard.

Everytime I read the word cover-up I get a red haze in front my eyes.

Guys, I've gotta go, I've got all of 6.30 hours left of sleep.

Arubagirl---- I am sorry that you have to deal w/a**holes like this
and lately too frequently...I love aruba and you are a great spokesperson for your land.  It is beautiful.  thank you.l

ARUBAGIRL- I have been watching this board for the better part of the past month.  I have seen you react very responsibly to alot of irresponsible lashes from many people who have never been to Aruba.  I for one love your country.  I own a timeshare at Playa Linda.  I have not found one single thing I dislike about Aruba or its people.

Iquitos you got that damn right that there are no secrets on this island, you dance with one boy and your mom asks you the next day if you'ge got a boyfriend....

<sigh>

Good night and thank you for all you do.  You are truly appreciated and not all Americans are rude.   :D

I'm taking everything he says with a grain of salt.  He matter-of-factly says that Paul VDS picked up Jaron at 4 AM.  Where did that come from??  That's a pretty important detail, if true!

Level headed people need their sleep....for sure.

Arubagirl - You're correct.  It doesn't make sense, and I'm sure you have a hell of a lot more knowledge about the politics on your island than we do!  I believe people are grasping at straws for an answer, b/c they are so obsessed with this case (myself included), and want to figure out the whats/where/hows.  I think that most people here have the best of intentions, it's just mind-boggling.  Please don't take it personal, though if I were in your position, I can imagine how much easier that sounds than it actually is.

And here's the other weird thing. You know how the Kalpoes' mother kept saying Deepak didn't want anything to happen to his car and he babied it so much he wouldn't even take it to work because he was afraid it would get scratched?

And yet, there was a big old stain in the back seat which LE thought was blood (it wasn't they said).

How does someone who's so meticulous about his car not freak out that there's a big stain in his backseat? Would he have cleaned it when it happened?

 :arrow: Great questions!!!!!   still i have no official comment/evidence/

Arubagirl - I don't think anyone with any common sense believes there is a cover-up.

Thanks for all your info.  You're the best!

Thats what I mean hes throwing out some pretty wild statements if what he is saying hasnt been verified.  Its getting harder to tell fact from fiction.

Yes, if they believe it's a kidnapping and not a run-away or flake.

I think the stain was in the trunk of the car.  I never heard the size of the stain.  But to the best of my recollection it turned out to be rust.

Greta did list different theories on what could have happened that night which I found interesting.

still watching TV and reading:

Harris,,,on A Current Affair, was reporting from Aruba,,,said that Beth hugged her and said, "don't forget me and please don't forget Natalee"
\Harris must be leaving and returning to the states.

To the best of my knowledge, police in the US will consider an adult missing after a certain number of hours, 24 or 48, it may vary by community. Maybe someone familiar with Aruba laws will know if Aruba has a similar provision. If so, because Natalee is 18, she would not have been considered "officially" missing by the police at the time the family arrived.

Just scroll the mouse until the red haze stops. ;) Message boards can unfortunately be more intimidating than Bill O'Reilly, but they help one develop a mighty tough backside among other positive things.

Wow - are you a little sensitive this evening?  First of all, yeah, when murder suspects are washing their cars in the middle of the night/early morning, we sort of wonder why.  Call it common sense.

Secondly, I don't know what you are "BEYOND tired" of explaining????  You seem to be screaming at us lately.

Third, we have experts come in to cases all the time.  No one person or group of people can know everything.  So, yeah, if the Arubans were experts, we'd be calling you in.  

Suing?  That's old - and nobody ever was talking about dollars - it was for information, and we provide that freely.

I know you've provided information on what's going on there with a very generous spirit, but this evening, you seem rather cranky!

 :cry:

I have a little bit different take on Joran's second text message to Deepak--isn't it possible he could have been hiding something from Deepak also?  

He was telling him, in so many words, "don't come get me" (even though it was obvious Deepak *wasn't* coming to get him) -- because he didn't want Deepak coming to wherever it was Joran had been with Natalee (dead or alive)?  Covering his tracks so Deepak couldn't come back and say "I went to the HI or the Marriott or the Fishermen's Huts beach to get Joran at 2:40AM and he wasn't there."

I don't think it was so much a "Hi, I got a lift home and have arrived safely; having cocoa with Daddums now and about to be tucked beddy-bye" as a "don't come looking for me cause I'm not there."

Arubagirl -  :)

And for the record, good point on how USA would react if this case were reversed.  I don't believe for one minute the USA LE would be interested in any type of help from the Aruban LE.  Point made.

Please, please, please....anything new on Greta, or do I have to go read the entire blinking thread?  too tired for that....

And, re the Nat's HI room opening onto the sand....I had a pretty detailed conversation with Dash yesterday and she insisted that the rooms did not open to the sand...that you had to got through hotel.

But from what I'm hearing (again), Beth showed that the room opened to the beach?  

If so, it seems entirely plausible that Nat could have returned home....wanting to avoid talking to people....entered the room, and/or someone abducted her?  Stranger things have happened, no?

Not ruling out any vdS involvement, but as Greta said on O'Leily tonight....there are many other explanations as well til we have more proof.

Maybe she perceived some remarks as being a "dig" at her country?    :twisted:

Where did this "washing the car in the middle of the night" info come from?  I've never heard this, and I thought I knew everything about this case.  :D

From Dan Riekl's site:

Some Background On Van der Sloot Family Situation
Reliable, independent sources spoken with today point to what seemed like preferential treatment toward Joran v d Sloot early in the investigation which possibly contributed to difficulties now being encountered in the search and investigation as regards the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

One point made was that a search of the vehicle showed no traces of hair bel;onging to the Alabama teenager in the car driven by the Kalpoes that night, even though all known accounts place her in the vehicle at one time or another. This suggests that the car was cleaned above and beyond what one might normally expect sometime after young Natalee was known to have been inside.

That possible preferential treatment is not lost on all of the the Aruban people, many are now blaming the Van der Sloots for bringing recent troubling developments to the tiny island.

Those sentiments are being acted out in acts of vandalism, including at least one incident wherein a rock was throw through a window of their home, as well as damage to the front gate seen recently on reports on Fox News, and possibly other minor acts of vandalism as well.

Additional reports strongly suggest that prior to this incident, Paul v d Sloot was seriously considering moving his family off the island and back to his town of origin, Boxtel, cited here. The move would likely have been the result of his declining prospects for employment. It's been reported that he was offered a teaching position at a local scool, but he did not find the terms of the position acceptable. Other alleged attempts at seeking suitable employment were also said to have been unproductive.

The timing of that move would have coincided with Joran's going off to college. Now it is believed that should Joran v d Sloot be released, or found innocent of any wrong doing, it is likely the Van der Sloot family will likely make a timely move.

Since I will only be getting on 6 1/2 hours of sleep tonight also, I will say goodnight to all.

Just a thought.............as long as new information in coming in everyone gets along great because there is something new to ponder over.  When the news stops the bickering begins.

I really enjoy this site and value a lot of the opinions here.  Just keep in mind that it is okay to "agree to disagree".

Remember your prayers for Natalee and her family and friends.

God bless you all.

y'alls.....ArubaGirl said the neighbor of a friend of one of her mom's coworkers was the source......

Have we ever figured out what it really was, since it wasn't blood?

ARUBA GIRL---

That poster has no idea.   Let it go-there is no one here u have to prove anything to!!!

Middle-of-the-night car-washing came from arubagirl's *source.*  That is a Monkey exclusive.

He didn't ask them because apparently the Holloways were so rude he threw them out -- told them to leave. When they became so accusatory at that point, MOST parents would tell their underage son to "Say Nothing" -- I would have done the same thing if pit bulls attacked in the middle of the night.  Wouldn't most parents? C'monnnnnn. :roll:

Just made a comment about the contradiction...no evidence, no info, evidence...

Thanks!  That's quite interesting, especially when taken in combination with the new Riehl report just posted.  I have to admit I've been leaning to Deepak and Satish not being involved other than their original lie.  However, this makes me question thata bit...

<<

No, you are the one who objected to MY posting as though I had asked you to answer something for which you were so tired of doing. I did no such thing but am very sorry you saw it as me attacking your home.

 BTW, I have been to Aruba if that makes any difference but do not understand what that has to do with your flaming me for responding to Scott.  Why is that required to post here?  It was one of several islands on a cruise and frankly, I do not remember that much about it for it was a few years ago.  I did not see that listed as a requirement to post, am learning lots of things tonight.  No, I don't think that it is but I do not understand why you are so upset about my post.  It did not require anything of you at all and was directed at Scott.

Then you certainly can understand why some of us do not like to see OUR HOME constantly attacked and our friend/family smeared because this young girl was so unfortunate as to come up missing.  I feel the very same way as you do in this regard.  I just don't understand why you were so upset that I responded to Scott's questions as being the same ones that remain a big mystery to me as well.  Nor why I am not supposed to be posting here but if that is the way it is, OK, I will go elsewhere.

Thanks for the hospitality.  No wonder Dash felt as she did.

The source for the Kalpoes washing their car at 2/3 am the night Natalee disappeared?

...and there should be, we are such an arrogant country!!

and i'm not being sarcastic!

 :evil:

Exactally. Hey, I think, personally there was evidence at the VDS home at that point, but I don't think that legally, without any evidence of a crime, the Aruban LE could do anything about it. I think the law is more about protecting the innocent than punishing the guilty. I don't think that the gov't has any right to enter my house on whim, without legal and reasonable cause to suspect a crime, period.  The Aruban LE did not have it at that point.

Luna, nothing new that I recall. Does anybody else?

I read her post as meaning one of Kalpoes' neighbors is the sister of an arubagirlmom's co-worker.

Boy meets girl, girl meets boy (not to mince words).
Girl sees boy again.
Girl leaves with boy and his two friends (no assumptions).
Vehicle drives off into the night.
Three boys are alive and well.
Girl is missing and no one can tell us how, why, when, or where.
Local newspapers call it a Crisis Blown out of Proportion.
Mothers line up to hand flowers over the gate to the family of one of the boys.
What is wrong with this picture?

Assuming that Joran and Natalee got into the car at C &C's, could they have been carrying drinks, and spilled one in the car?

If Deepak is fussy about his car, he might want to clean it up before going to bed.

I am leaning toward the theory that for whatever reason, the brothers agreed to lie for their friend when they thought it was just a case of a girl who was temporarily not where she was supposed to be, but would turn up.

Young girls do not disappear on Aruba with great frequency, and they are both young. It is possible that they had no idea of the seriousness of the situation, and when they did realize it, that is when their story changed.

HAVE ANY OTHER E-MAILS TO POST????

One possible explanation is that she threw up in the car...which would prompt even me to wash my car in the middle of the night.

Someone is belittling her home, you would be sensitive too.  Talking about boycotting aruba tourism just because of this is rediculous,  putting down everything about aruba is rediculous.  Maybe we should also boycott Florida for the botched investigation of the girl there, or the florida beaches where two children in a week were attacked by a shark because no lifeguards are ever there.  Or how bout the guy that was unregistered as a sex offender, and molested over 36,000 children, should we boycott that state too?

from Dan Riehl's site:  

One point made was that a search of the vehicle showed no traces of hair bel;onging to the Alabama teenager in the car driven by the Kalpoes that night, even though all known accounts place her in the vehicle at one time or another. This suggests that the car was cleaned above and beyond what one might normally expect sometime after young Natalee was known to have been inside.

I couldn't agree more.  And that arrogance has been made ever more obvious by some of the comments I see on here.

This was my line of thinking yesterday...Natalee returning to hotel, upset by bad encounter with Joran so wants to avoid conversation with friends for a while and thinks she'll go in through the back.  Then I got to thinking, surely they would have kept door to beach locked.
Still...add in the screaming maid, the other missing person who was supposed to be on Natalee's flight, rumors of a young woman struggling with someone on beach...
My brain is fried thinking of all the possibilities.

Innocent people dont change their stories and create fake alibis.  The truth only comes naturally if you dont have anything to hide.

Does anyone else feel a little disheartened tonight? There was news on Riehl world about dogs finding a 'hit' and for a while I thought there might be an end to this godawful thing (i.e. the holloways/twittys might get some closure.) Once again I'm left with a feeling that this will never get solved. There will be no body, noone will confess, it will go down as one of the great mysteries. I really hope I'm wrong.

Who is belittling her home?  Where did you find this in the exchange?  The word "boycott" is nowhere in this exchange of posts.

I'd sure like to think most parents would help someone in a search for their missing child, particularly when their son was one of the last 3 know people to be seen with her.

On the other hand, I have to wonder how much of a "Cowboy" attitude was happening that night with Jug and his 5 friends descending on the house.  I hope that didn't contribute to Joran's (and possibly Paulus') refusal to tell the truth.

yes

No, but thanx for asking....

If human behavior were that simple, whole industries, from mental health care to law enforcement, would be flipping burgers at McDonald's!

LMAO

Everyday that passes lessens the chance anyone will be charged, especially when 116 days are up.  With Dan''s site reporting local people trying to impede with their search efforts, thats only going to make it tougher for a search team thats running ragged.  Those dogs are busting their ace out there.  With the latest comments from her parents Im started to lose faith in the whole situation.

Yes.  I was hoping for some resolution today being provided by the Texas crew.  I do believe that they will provide that though.  I have a lot of faith in them.  I know Tim looked a little worse for wear tonight, but they are putting in long hours and putting their hearts into this and even he stated he hadn't eaten or showered yet.  So, although I am very down tonight, I will wake up tomorrow with renewed hope.

arubagirl; please don't let anyone get to you , you're very insightful to us and some of us appreciate you being here.
as you can see by reading the post, some also like to differ with others and i think the 4 wks of waiting is just getting to everyone and making all or some of us cranky. Just ignore it please!

As for the VDS's, I do feel for Anita and the other children and am very sorry for any vandalism that is occuring at their house.  Even if we do think Dad & Joran are hiding valuable info. that could help bring Natalee home, this kind of treatment is sad for all involved.
Prayers to Natalee and family
Good-nite all, hoping for news tomorrow!

A most excellent observation.

People should play nice and I don't blame ArubaGirl and others from Aruba for feeling defensive, this case has really gone running wild- government coverups, favoritism because PVDS supposedly a judge in training, boycotts, and GERALDO for Pete's sake, down there just peddling and peddling , spinning stories....

I'll try to stop my rants about the media, they are in it for ratings but it has probably helped the Holloway family by getting so much attention out there. But I think the Aruba bashing is wrong.

Not to mention some of the people involved in the case....

I think that's the key here.  I try to put myself in their position, and I can definitely see me going there in the middle of the night, no question.  But I cannot picture ANYONE reacting to my hysteria/tears/emotions the way the VDS family did.  And let's forget about Joran's attitude for a minute...it just seems like the family would have reacted to them differently.  And if they had been more helpful/caring/empathetic, the Holloway/Twitty group would not have had the attitude they did....if they did.  

And by the way, how come we believe they even HAD an attitude when we weren't there???

Lausa,,,"Still...add in the screaming maid, the other missing person who was supposed to be on Natalee's flight, rumors of a young woman struggling with someone on beach... "

I'm curious about the "screaming maid" and teh woman struggling on the beach....have you heard the same unsubstantiated rumor I have?  Things have kind of flitted around re those occurrences, but I have not seen any firm source for the info....have you?  Just curious....thanks.

Luckily when it comes to human behavior with regards to a crime, it is that simple.
When suspects continually lie and their story cant be verified, that tells the investigators that their focus is in within the ones that evidently have something to hide.

Several people have said many bad things about aruba, Arubagirl has been so helpfull here, and to see people bashing her is upsetting,  she's gone well beyond the "call of duty" by taking pictures of different land marks there, by posting what was said on the radio there, personally I would be a little sensitive if I worked as hard as she has to get information she's been feeding us, to turn around and hear negitive statements about her home.

as far as them cleaning the car, i wonder if anyone has used Luminol?No matter how good you clean it, blood will always show up....

Decided to come out of "lurk mode" tonight.  

I guess I am of the minority here, but I am proud to be an American and live in the U.S.   I also love Aruba and their people and can't wait to return there.

Yes, I am ashamed of how many of my fellow Americans have acted on this board, but I will not put down my country as a whole.

Your right, they were obviously hiding the fact that their friend was last with her, for fear of being WRONGLY accused.

I felt this way all day yesterday, but I decided to stay hopeful and prayerful for the family's sake. If we're this discouraged, you know they are much more so...

if the kalpoes were indeed cleaning the car at 2 am and it was vomit in the backseat, does vomit have enough dna in it to trace?  From saliva?

Well, I guess it's you and me then.

 :?

We really don't know for sure.  However, we do know that it got heated, and that Paulus VDS said that they can't come in there like that because "This isn't America."

I wonder if that could be the stain....

yes, dl..it does...

They admitted that Nat was in the car so her dna being present is irrelavent.

I think its apparent that whatever happened, the chances of finding the truth have been severly altered by Jug and his friends.

What they have to hide may not be what you are looking to find.

But if it were vomit it would give us a key to her condition.  We have heard rumors of her being drunk to appearing ok.