Lively Case Discussion #603 4/21 - 4/25/2007

[klaasend]

Robert (from the NL) a front page poster is translating one of the shows that Joran was on today.  Once he's done I'll copy and paste them together in here.

[LilPuma]

Anna,

It wasnt paint that they used at all ask hotshot she picked up some of it when she was in Aruba..Also Jossy pointed out that the fellow in the white beard in the video works in forensics for the ALE. It wasnt all security people at the scene.

I thought the "painting" or marking of the rocks was to indicate where they had found things or where they had already looked.  

I don't know if the videos have anything to do with Natalee's disappearance.  I don't even have an opinion.  But I have thought that Joran and Koen took the body out, dumped it, and being members of the Aruban Brain Trust, didn't know it would wash back up on Aruba if they didn't go out far enough.  Thus the rocks and evidence that had to be cleaned up.  This would explain the snickering "she wanted to see sharks" story he likes to tell.  He left her, she went out with someone else to see sharks, fell overboard.............  Or maybe it's a sick way of saying "that's what we did with her."  

[Tamikosmom]

Anna:

What if the tapes had EVERYTHING to do with framing the guards?

What if the reason for placing the body in the bag and painting the rocks was specifically for framing them?  Maybe they were going to create a crime scene using the evidence that they found at the rocks.

I wouldn't put that past Paulus and his crew.  

What if Paulus didn't know where Natalee was until that same day, only
because of Joran's confession and he had to rush out there to intercede?

And that's why the photographer put that stamp on the tape... to
let ALE know that they had seen everything so they concocted the story about the boy being found there, in case someone like us noticed a body in the tapes?

Patti ... what you are saying goes again everything I have concluded since the initial stages of the investigation ... a conclusion that implied that "something bad happened" and ... Paulus was summoned to the scence by Joran and ... he disposed of Natalee's body.

However ... I will have to dwell on your words ... they do make sense.  Maybe ... Paulus was not involved in the disposal of Natalee's body on the morning that she went missing.

Do I have your theory correct ...

Two official news releases ... a confession was made ... "something bad happened" ... Natalee was confirmed dead and  ... police knew the location of the body.  Natalee was in the process of being recovered when Paulus became intervened and ... the confession was no more.  Then another story needed to be devised to explain the activity that was taking place at the rocks ... a child's body was being recovered who had been missing for some time.

Patti ... is the "stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach" in the location of the "rocks"?

Janet


Gerold Dompig
Associated Press
June 12, 2005

Deputy Police Commissioner, Gerold Dompig, told The Associated Press that one of three young men arrested in the case admitted "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene. Prosecutors refused to comment on Dompig's statement, and Dompig himself refused to identify which of the three young men who took Holloway to the Northern beach the night she went missing made the statement.


Gerold Dompig
CBS NEWS
June 10, 2005  

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime.


Spokesperson for the Aruban Minister
FOX NEWS
June 11, 2005

David Cruz, a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body

[Observer]

No..That wasnt paint at all..It looked like paint but when it dried it is more like a puddy..Most likely to scoop up whatever evidence was on those rocks.

[LilPuma]

Robert (from the NL) a front page poster is translating one of the shows that Joran was on today.  Once he's done I'll copy and paste them together in here.

I think we should keep our eyes and ears open for any rumors that someone is negotiating a movie deal with this sociopath.  Nip it in the bud with letters and e-mails and such.

[Patti]

Anna:

What if the tapes had EVERYTHING to do with framing the guards?

What if the reason for placing the body in the bag and painting the rocks was specifically for framing them?  Maybe they were going to create a crime scene using the evidence that they found at the rocks.

I wouldn't put that past Paulus and his crew.  

What if Paulus didn't know where Natalee was until that same day, only
because of Joran's confession and he had to rush out there to intercede?

And that's why the photographer put that stamp on the tape... to
let ALE know that they had seen everything so they concocted the story about the boy being found there, in case someone like us noticed a body in the tapes?

Then why would Paulus be rushing anywhere to intercede?  That is not AlE at the rocks but the security company.   After recovery of the remains, they put them in a small plastic bag in the basin?  Why?  You can't see through the plastic into the contents of the bag.  That would take x-ray vision.

Painting over evidence would destroy it so if anything, they are dismantling a crime scene?  Maybe one of their own or ALE's creation to frame the security guards but I don't see bodies or body parts.  Except for when I see dogs, lol!  

And I think it pretty ordinary that Paulus would always be lurking around to see if he could find out what was going on.

We'll just have to agree to disagree and my only point was to go on record that not everybody shares the theory that the vids are pertinent to Natalee's disappearance.  I personally don't think that they do.  Others think otherwise and to do so is certainly their right.  We all have our own thoughts and theories and there is not one generally accepted as gospel that I am aware of, my own certainly included.

We just don't really know so much even after all this time.

JMO
.

I know, Anna, it's just that I think they were out to frame the security
guards in a major way... to save Joran.  And I think maybe part of the
reason was because they could never afford the defense that Joran got.

I don't trust the police as much as some people do... that's all.

Besides... remember, I was the one that told you to go with your gut.
Don't let anyone tell you what to think.... and as much as I would like
you to agree with me, or me with you; I respect you for your opinion.

Sure wish you could see what I see in those videos... if it weren't for
that, I'd side with you, for sure!!!!!  

[friend of monkeys]

Robert (from the NL) a front page poster is translating one of the shows that Joran was on today.  Once he's done I'll copy and paste them together in here.

AS ALWAYS


U ROCK KLASS!
nite monkeys

[Patti]

Anna:

What if the tapes had EVERYTHING to do with framing the guards?

What if the reason for placing the body in the bag and painting the rocks was specifically for framing them?  Maybe they were going to create a crime scene using the evidence that they found at the rocks.

I wouldn't put that past Paulus and his crew.  

What if Paulus didn't know where Natalee was until that same day, only
because of Joran's confession and he had to rush out there to intercede?

And that's why the photographer put that stamp on the tape... to
let ALE know that they had seen everything so they concocted the story about the boy being found there, in case someone like us noticed a body in the tapes?

Patti ... what you are saying goes again everything I have concluded since the initial stages of the investigation ... a conclusion that implied that "something bad happened" and ... Paulus was summoned to the scence by Joran and ... he disposed of Natalee's body.

However ... I will have to dwell on your words ... they do make sense.  Maybe ... Paulus was not involved in the disposal of Natalee's body on the morning that she went missing.

Do I have your theory correct ...

Two official news releases ... a confession was made ... "something bad happened" ... Natalee was confirmed dead and  ... police knew the location of the body.  Natalee was in the process of being recovered when Paulus became intervened and ... the confession was no more.  Then another story needed to be devised to explain the activity that was taking place at the rocks ... a child's body was being recovered who had been missing for some time.

Patti ... is the "stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach" in the location of the "rocks"?

Janet


Gerold Dompig
Associated Press
June 12, 2005

Deputy Police Commissioner, Gerold Dompig, told The Associated Press that one of three young men arrested in the case admitted "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene. Prosecutors refused to comment on Dompig's statement, and Dompig himself refused to identify which of the three young men who took Holloway to the Northern beach the night she went missing made the statement.


Gerold Dompig
CBS NEWS
June 10, 2005  

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime.


Spokesperson for the Aruban Minister
FOX NEWS
June 11, 2005

David Cruz, a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body

Janet:

We're saying the same thing.  The only difference is that I don't think that Paulus knew where Natalee was until Joran confessed.  I think the same as you... Paulus with the assistance of ALE had the body disappeared...

AND... I think the reason that stamp having to do with framing the guards
was on the tape was because they got caught.

So... ALE concocted a story to fit the video.

It is after the rock video that all this body shuffling goes on... and I don't
doubt anyone's theory on that because there is no way that they were just going to leave her somewhere with the F.B.I., the searchers, the
press and all the activity that was going on.

Maybe they put her in a crypt and did what Dompig said:  Buried her
several times... to keep her away from the searchers.

[Anna]

Well, I hate the thought of Joran shooting his mouth off unchecked all over Holland.

Do you think we should refute his lies/inconsistencies by writing to his publisher and the radio  and TV stations that have him as a guest?


Maybe we could also include a few questions that should have been asked.

 

Justice ... I think that is an excellent idea.  However, an English  translation of the entire book needs to become available for that to happen.  Any ideas?

Janet

Peter DeVries.  That's my idea.  Peter, knowing what he knows about the case from his own investigation, should do a show that points out the discrepancies between what Joran is STILL saying and facts.  Problem with Joran's lies is that he lies even when it's not necessary.  He lies to portray himself the way he wants others to see him.  I still think Satish picked up Deepak that night, then picked up Joran where Melody saw him standing, and they went somewhere, did something, before going to bar.  Don't know why they're lying about that, but I'm not convinced they went home and ate and did homework.  Maybe they were setting up the lights and camera or getting the drugs or something.  That's what I think.  It's a 2-1/2 hour timeframe that is unaccounted for IMO.

Lil,
Melody saw Joran the night before, Saturday night, not the night Natalee disappeared.

Yes, deVries would be ideal to debunk Joran!  I wish he would.  I also wish we could contact programs BEFORE Joran appears to give them hints as to what questions might be good to ask.

.

[Tamikosmom]

Does anybody know ... Is the "stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach" in the location of the "rocks"?


Gerold Dompig
CBS NEWS
June 10, 2005

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime

[Anna]

No..That wasnt paint at all..It looked like paint but when it dried it is more like a puddy..Most likely to scoop up whatever evidence was on those rocks.

*******,
I have had three different accounts from people who actually came in contact with the paint.  The latest was that it was common road paint.  Before that, a monkey said it dried so hard he couldn't even chip it and before that the putty consistency.

Take your pick!    

[Anna]

Well, I hate the thought of Joran shooting his mouth off unchecked all over Holland.

Do you think we should refute his lies/inconsistencies by writing to his publisher and the radio  and TV stations that have him as a guest?


Maybe we could also include a few questions that should have been asked.

 

I wish we could get to them BEFORE Joran is on the programs.  Give hints as to potential inquiries.  

[Observer]

Anna,

Thats a good thought.. What question's to ask Joran in these Interviews..I wrote both stations yesterday and asked them to ask tough questions as he still isnt telling the truth. But I never gave them question's to ask..Like his shoe size,his father's relationships with key officiials..etc..

I think it would be also be a good idea if we could think of some good questions to give these interviewers. His book tour probably will die out this week..

[Anna]

[I know, Anna, it's just that I think they were out to frame the security
guards in a major way... to save Joran.  And I think maybe part of the
reason was because they could never afford the defense that Joran got.

I don't trust the police as much as some people do... that's all.

Besides... remember, I was the one that told you to go with your gut.
Don't let anyone tell you what to think.... and as much as I would like
you to agree with me, or me with you; I respect you for your opinion.

Sure wish you could see what I see in those videos... if it weren't for
that, I'd side with you, for sure!!!!!  

Our diversity may well be our major strength.  No, we don't all have to share the same opinions, thankfully.  And I don't really want anyone to share mine if they do not arrive there by their own deductions because like everybody else, I could well be wrong.

I think the FP is more unified in their opinions than in the cage.  We are pretty tolerant of each others differing theories and thoughts on things.  Usually.

At different times, I have personally held a large variety of thoughts on what likely happened that night but tend to go back to the more simple theories time and again.

So I am fine with whatever anyone thinks because you never know, they could be right.

.

[Anna]

Anna,

Thats a good thought.. What question's to ask Joran in these Interviews..I wrote both stations yesterday and asked them to ask tough questions as he still isnt telling the truth. But I never gave them question's to ask..Like his shoe size,his father's relationships with key officiials..etc..

I think it would be also be a good idea if we could think of some good questions to give these interviewers. His book tour probably will die out this week..

Yeah, I wish we could read the Dutch TV schedules and know what programs he is going to be on before they are taped, etc. but we are probably too late on that anyway.  Would have been nice, right?

So what happened to the judge's gag order on the book?  That must have been lifted?  Any rumors from the Dark Side?

.

[Anna]

Does anybody know ... Is the "stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach" in the location of the "rocks"?


Gerold Dompig
CBS NEWS
June 10, 2005

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime

I am not certain but think you pass by the rocks on the way to that lighthouse.

.

[robots]

Anna, what does your short say ??

 

[robots]

shirt


not short

[klaasend]

Posted by ROBERT on the front page if SM - translation of one of the shows Joran was on today:

From the Hart Van Netherlands show:

Show-host:… Joran van der Sloot. He still is the mainsuspect in the disappearence-case of the American student Natalee Holloway. For the first time he apollogises to the parents of the girl that dissapeared two years ago at Aruba.
In his book “The Natalee Holloway-case” the now 19 year old Joran tells his version of what happened that evening on the beach of Aruba. And also why he at first lied to the police.
Joran: I wrote the book… well actualy for myself… I don’t like psychologists… I don’t like psychiatrists… I deal with my problems in a different way. And this is a sort of treatment as well. To write down everything that happened… and so it gets shared with others. This has been a sort of therapy for me.
HvN: But what do you want with it?
Joran: Uhmm.. Well… To let people that are interested see my side of the story.
Voice over: Joran apologises in the book to the family of Natalee because he lied about what excactly happened after he was arrested. In his first statement he toled the police that he delevered the girl at her hotel. Later he told that he’d left her at the beach.
Joran: Yes… I… Uhhh… Excuses…. Uhhh… Yes… That I lied… Excuses that… Uhh… Yes… That I left their doughter alone there… Those excuses… But… Yes… I found that… Uhhh… At their place.
HvN: Does that eat on you.

Joran: Yes, yes.., yes.
Voice over: Natalee Holloway’s mother this evening said she was shocked that Joran wrote a book about the dissappearence of her daughter. But she wouldn’t say more on that before she’s read it.
Show-host: And the dissappearence of Natalee Holloway has caused quite a stirr the last couple of years. Joran was almost immediatly pointed to as a suspect. In his book he discribes what impact that has on his daily life.
Joran reads from his book: As I write this I’m still the suspect in the Natalee Holloway-case. I hope that once it will become clear what has happened to her, how terribly it may turn out to be. Only then I will be rehabillitated, only then I can truly go on with my life.
> Clip of the events in Aruba 30th of May 2005, when Natalee disappeared.

Next piece of translation:

Clip of the events in Aruba 30th of May 2005, when Natalee disappeared.
Joran from his book: I leave Natalee behind. I didn’t even say goodbye to her well, or told her that I have someone who’ll pick me up. I walk to the car…
Voice over: Until now there hasn’t been found any evidence that proofs Joran has something to do with her dissapearence. Joran is set free and goes to Holland to study. This to the horror of Natalees family.
Beth Twitty: It’s not easy. It’s very difficult and you know we just keep having great expectations when they arrest new suspects and… That we’ll be getting closer to an answer. But it all seems to wind up at a dead end. And that makes it all very frustrating.
Voice over: The family rewards one million dollars for the one that finds Natalee alive and files a lawsuit to Joran and his father. In US media Joran is imaged as a monster.
Joran from his book: They have tried to image to viewers, listeners and readers that I would be an arrant-liar, a monster, a gang-rapist. I would collaborate with my corrupt father and make use of his good contacts.
Show-host: Yes, so Joran until today denies all accusations. But it is a fact that he’s the last one who saw Natalee alive. And the question remains what exactly happened on the night she dissapeared. And if Joran didn’t do it.., who did. We asked Joran himself.
Joran: I too was always impressed that she wanted to have sex with me. And… I wanted that too. And uhhh… When it came to it I didn’t have a condom with me and I uhhh in fact… Well then it was in fact end of party.
Voice over: In his book Joran discribes to the detail the last moments he spents with Natalee. According to Joran Natalee wants to stay at the beach after their love-affair to see the stars. But Joran doesn’t like that, walks of the beach and sees his friend Satish.
Joran from his book: I see Satish sit in the car and open the door. “What are you doing?” he asks. I: “She doesn’t want to go to the hotel.” Satish: “Fok die bitch” (”f*** that bitch”.) - that means something like: Let her go. I get in the car without telling Natalee that we leave and we drive away.
Joran: I want to do that over. I did ask her if she wanted to go back to her hotel and she didn’t want that. And in the end I should have thrown her over my back and just take her back to her hotelroom and throw her on the bed. So that she could have stayed there. Then this all wouldn’t have happened.
Voice over: So Joran at first hid that he’d left her at the beach. Lies he says now, to spare his girlfriend and his parents. Lying is easy for him he says. (???!!!???)
Joran: It was an easy way to go around problems.
HvN: So you did that often in general.
Joran: Yes I did that in general as well. Yes uhhh… I now try to do that no longer (???!!!???) but now I find myself sometimes as well… And then I think “Shit, why did I say that… That’s absolutely not true…”
Voice over: Whatever… For the parents of Natalee there’s only one person responsible for the disappearence of their daughter: Joran! Joran says he can understand that.
Joran: If someone I love would be missing… And the guy who would be with her the last… I wouldn’t know what I would do to that person.

Last piece of the Hart van Nederland - Urine vd Ditch - interview:

Joran: If someone I love would be missing… And the guy who would be with her the last… I wouldn’t know what I would do to that person. I mean that… Then I would realy… I don’t know… But then I could be realy bad…
HvN: So you can understand that?
Joran: Yes I can understand that.
HvN: Did you murder Natalee?
Joran: No off course not…
HvN: Or get rid of her body?
Joran: No off course not…
HvN: So you have nothing to hide?
Joran: I have absolutely nothing to hide and I’m absolutely not afraid where uhhh… that I’ll be arrested again cause I know that I (can’t hear what he says there).
Voice over: Who IS responsable for the disappearence of Natalee after reading Jorans book remains a puzzle.
Joran: Yes, uhhh, I uuhhh, …. , I realy don’t know. I hope one day uhhh, it gets clear what happened…. And I believe uhhh, that one day it’ll get clear that uhhh…
HvN: Why do you believe that?
Joran: Yes uhhh… In the end uhhh… Somebody must know more…. Somebody must know something… And you can’t live your whole life with that… That I know for sure.
Show host: The book “The Natalee Holloway” case is in the shop from tomorrow on…………………….

Have a nice evening you all.

Robert

[Patti]

Does anybody know ... Is the "stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach" in the location of the "rocks"?


Gerold Dompig
CBS NEWS
June 10, 2005

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime

I am not certain but think you pass by the rocks on the way to that lighthouse.

.

Janet:

I think the light house is at
Arisha Beach.  It's real rocky terrain.

I think I'm going to go to bed.  
I can hardly hold my eyes open.

Klaas:

Isn't it a blessing that Robert came by today,
of all days?  He's so sweet... and then to stay
up this late to work on translating...

Gotta love the guy!