Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 - 12/24/08

[Tamikosmom]

12/17/2008 Bondia

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

So is Paulus involved as a legal representative in the Luis Mansur case??What does this article say??Janet?

Dutch?  I do not have a clue.

 

Janet

[truthseeker2]

OE comments regarding the post office:

We've internally discussed the possibility of a "post office" of sorts while awaiting forensic testing results.
The problems with this theory include:
-little or no evident anchor scars from a boat or boats at or anywhere near the site which would support diving ops.
-The trap shows no apparent evidence of human tampering one would expect from in situ placement and removal of objects inside the trap. The sand inside the trap shows no disruption.  The soft growth on the trap shows no obvious scars, where something scrapes or slides on the trap during a placement or withdrawal.

The potential issues of a Venezuelan fishing vessel passing through:
- The location of the trap is significantly out of the way for passing through vessels.
- The location of the trap is not in an area where fishermen fish with commercial traps.
- There are no significant near by seabed obstructions which the trap would have gotten hung-up on to explain it's loss.
- The trap is only in 90ft of water, which makes it easily recoverable by divers if accidentally lost.
Other notes:
- The location is in the lee of the island, which makes the location somewhat weather protected and therefore less likely to have been lost during a storm.
- The trap appears to be in it's original location, as evident by an impact depression in the seabed clearly seen in the sonar.
-It appears the trap hit the bottom very hard as in a free fall.  One corner hit just before the others and the trap seemingly "bounced" a few feet and remained in its current position and orientation.  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366270#msg366270

So.What i gather is from Kyle's(OE) observations is that it was dropped in the water and nothing was disturbed inside the cage.Meaning "No Post Office".Correct me if i'm wrong!!

That's what it sounds like he is saying.

[Keepthefaith]

I just thought you had a Translator from your computer?

[Keepthefaith]

I just thought you had a Translator from your computer?

Janet..

[Keepthefaith]

OE comments regarding the post office:

We've internally discussed the possibility of a "post office" of sorts while awaiting forensic testing results.
The problems with this theory include:
-little or no evident anchor scars from a boat or boats at or anywhere near the site which would support diving ops.
-The trap shows no apparent evidence of human tampering one would expect from in situ placement and removal of objects inside the trap. The sand inside the trap shows no disruption.  The soft growth on the trap shows no obvious scars, where something scrapes or slides on the trap during a placement or withdrawal.

The potential issues of a Venezuelan fishing vessel passing through:
- The location of the trap is significantly out of the way for passing through vessels.
- The location of the trap is not in an area where fishermen fish with commercial traps.
- There are no significant near by seabed obstructions which the trap would have gotten hung-up on to explain it's loss.
- The trap is only in 90ft of water, which makes it easily recoverable by divers if accidentally lost.
Other notes:
- The location is in the lee of the island, which makes the location somewhat weather protected and therefore less likely to have been lost during a storm.
- The trap appears to be in it's original location, as evident by an impact depression in the seabed clearly seen in the sonar.
-It appears the trap hit the bottom very hard as in a free fall.  One corner hit just before the others and the trap seemingly "bounced" a few feet and remained in its current position and orientation.  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366270#msg366270

So.What i gather is from Kyle's(OE) observations is that it was dropped in the water and nothing was disturbed inside the cage.Meaning "No Post Office".Correct me if i'm wrong!!

That's what it sounds like he is saying.

Would Caps and Kyle have not already had the conversation regarding the cage?

[truthseeker2]

OE comments regarding the post office:

We've internally discussed the possibility of a "post office" of sorts while awaiting forensic testing results.
The problems with this theory include:
-little or no evident anchor scars from a boat or boats at or anywhere near the site which would support diving ops.
-The trap shows no apparent evidence of human tampering one would expect from in situ placement and removal of objects inside the trap. The sand inside the trap shows no disruption.  The soft growth on the trap shows no obvious scars, where something scrapes or slides on the trap during a placement or withdrawal.

The potential issues of a Venezuelan fishing vessel passing through:
- The location of the trap is significantly out of the way for passing through vessels.
- The location of the trap is not in an area where fishermen fish with commercial traps.
- There are no significant near by seabed obstructions which the trap would have gotten hung-up on to explain it's loss.
- The trap is only in 90ft of water, which makes it easily recoverable by divers if accidentally lost.
Other notes:
- The location is in the lee of the island, which makes the location somewhat weather protected and therefore less likely to have been lost during a storm.
- The trap appears to be in it's original location, as evident by an impact depression in the seabed clearly seen in the sonar.
-It appears the trap hit the bottom very hard as in a free fall.  One corner hit just before the others and the trap seemingly "bounced" a few feet and remained in its current position and orientation.  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366270#msg366270

So.What i gather is from Kyle's(OE) observations is that it was dropped in the water and nothing was disturbed inside the cage.Meaning "No Post Office".Correct me if i'm wrong!!

That's what it sounds like he is saying.

Would Caps and Kyle have not already had the conversation regarding the cage?

Or Caps and Silvetti.

[klaasend]

I just thought you had a Translator from your computer?

The BONDIA paper is in Pap and not in Dutch.  The Pap translator is pretty bad.  Google has a pretty good Dutch translator.

[Tamikosmom]

I just thought you had a Translator from your computer?

Janet..

I don't think so.

Klaas?

Janet

[Buckeye]

Keepthefaith

That's what I think it says.

[Keepthefaith]

Keepthefaith

That's what I think it says.

Are you talking about the Bondia article Buckeye?Be curious as to what it says and if PVDS is a council to a co-defendant in the Luis Mansur case so to speak!

[texasmom]

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6828/6/#jc_allComments

Comments to the video of Hero Brinkman's comments on Greta's show.  I didn't post them all, but included ones that looked very similar to some I saw posted earlier (from the front page of SM?).

kadushi said:

(google translated the first part from Dutch)  Hero Brinkman, as the familiar he is worth his guests. Why do not you study in your own country, of all child murders that are unsolved. Why do not you research the pedo file movement in the Netherlands? The sex tourism to Asia, trafficking in prostitution, discrimination against foreigners.  And Greta you know all those horribles things that happens in your own country. Why you do not investigate all the childrens that are killed in Afganistan an Irak. Why you do not show all the handicapped Americans that come back from the war. Its easy to try to demolish a small island like Aruba. Not Hero, nor Greta(also a Dutch) will succedc to damage the Arubian.Mr. Paul v.d. Sloot and Mr. van Straten are Dutch and not Arubean. The coruped are the Dutch living in Aruba?

pinkpanter said:

  Increible con e macamba aki ta insulta henter e isla yamando tur hende pa corupto!!!!! hendenan cu no tin nada que ber cu e asunto di e macamba vies cu yama van de sloot y berdad ta cu Aruba ainda ta carga e hendenan aki manera cu nan ta hendenan drechi. Cada bes nan ta ser invita na fiestanan social y nan ta prome cu tey y anos cu ta saluda nan ta mescos cu nan bah......ami si no kier tin nada cu e Macamba nan aki pa nada danki na nan nos tur ta ser yama CORUPTO. 

Papiamentu translation:
come across increible con the macamba here is insulta all the island yamando everybody for corupto!!!!! hendenan cu not have nothing que bear cu the asunto of the macamba vies cu calling van de sloot y berdad is cu aruba still is carga the hendenan here as cu they're hendenan right. cada times they're being invita at fiestanan social y they're first cu tey y us cu is saluda they're same cu they bah......ami if does not have nothing cu the macamba they here for nothing thanks at they we all is being calling corupto. come across

whoaretoblame said:

  E MR. Hero Brinknam aki no ta mucho educa.
Si Aruba ta corrupto anto ta e hulandesnan di Europa a corrumpi
e isla aki. No shonnan Van der Straten NO a tapa pa Tata & joew
van der Sloot sino ela tapa pa un otro MACAMBA(nan)? hopi mas
poderoso y hopi DIABOLICO. Esaki ta mi opinion.No c*lpa hende
sin cu bo sa kiko a pasa! VD STRATEN MOET NU PRATEN.

Papiamentu translation:
the mr. iron brinknam here do not mucho educa. if aruba is corrupto then is the hulandesnan of europa owing to corrumpi the island here. not shonnan van der straten not owing to tapa for father & joew van der sloot but ela tapa for one another macamba(nan)? much more powerful y much diabolico. this is my opinion.no c*lpa person without cu do you know what owing to happen! vd straten moet nu praten. come across

J.V said:

  his day wil come,dont worry.......Pim fortuin pt 2.....His day will come!!! Why dont you and greta come here on vacation? beautifull beaches,peacefull people.....we are waiting on you guys.....bring that dog nancy grace too....You are more than welcome!! Arubans are peaceful people paying a hefty price for what some dutch guys did or didnt do.....Keep talkin long enough and the day comes you have to answer to all of it wheter you want to or not!!!! 


J.V said:
 KOM HIER OP VACANTIE MENEER BRINKMAN!!!!WE WACHTEN OP JE!!! JE BENT WELKOM

Dutch translation:
COME HERE ON Holiday BRINKMAN Sir!! WE WAIT ON YOU! YOU ARE WELCOME

snip:

This one in English:

Adelina Croes said:

  Please send this message to Mr.Brinkman and Ms.Van Susteren
-Most Arubans are decent people but, sorry to say so, not all of us;
-Many Arubans are smart people but, sorry to say so, not the majority;
-All adult Arubans have right to elect their political representants but, sorry to say so, the outcome always mirrors the former two lines.
YOU as a smart reader though will understand that YOU will not condemn us ALL for these facts. Thank you for your consideration. 

[Tamikosmom]

OE comments regarding the post office:

We've internally discussed the possibility of a "post office" of sorts while awaiting forensic testing results.
The problems with this theory include:
-little or no evident anchor scars from a boat or boats at or anywhere near the site which would support diving ops.
-The trap shows no apparent evidence of human tampering one would expect from in situ placement and removal of objects inside the trap. The sand inside the trap shows no disruption.  The soft growth on the trap shows no obvious scars, where something scrapes or slides on the trap during a placement or withdrawal.

The potential issues of a Venezuelan fishing vessel passing through:
- The location of the trap is significantly out of the way for passing through vessels.
- The location of the trap is not in an area where fishermen fish with commercial traps.
- There are no significant near by seabed obstructions which the trap would have gotten hung-up on to explain it's loss.
- The trap is only in 90ft of water, which makes it easily recoverable by divers if accidentally lost.
Other notes:
- The location is in the lee of the island, which makes the location somewhat weather protected and therefore less likely to have been lost during a storm.
- The trap appears to be in it's original location, as evident by an impact depression in the seabed clearly seen in the sonar.
-It appears the trap hit the bottom very hard as in a free fall.  One corner hit just before the others and the trap seemingly "bounced" a few feet and remained in its current position and orientation.  

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366270#msg366270

So.What i gather is from Kyle's(OE) observations is that it was dropped in the water and nothing was disturbed inside the cage.Meaning "No Post Office".Correct me if i'm wrong!!

That's what it sounds like he is saying.

Would Caps and Kyle have not already had the conversation regarding the cage?

JOHN SILVETTI

KYLE KINGMAN'S POSTS TO A PRIVATE FORUM

Kyle: John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis

Kyle: John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word

Kyle: John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability.

Kyle: John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again.

Kyle: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

Kyle: John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship.


+++++


KYLE KINGMAN'S POST TO THE SCARED MONKEYS FORUM

oceanexploration: "We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.     The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE."

[Buckeye]

Keepthefaith

That's what I think it says.

Are you talking about the Bondia article Buckeye?Be curious as to what it says and if PVDS is a council to a co-defendant in the Luis Mansur case so to speak!

No...OE's post regarding post office.

As for Papiamentu...I don't even go there.  I wait for texasmom to translate the translation.  I do miss our pap translators.  Can we petition google to add the language?  If we did that, Aruba would probably declare a different language.

[caesu]

12/17/2008 Bondia

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

So is Paulus involved as a legal representative in the Luis Mansur case??What does this article say??Janet?

Paulus is representing Mr. Leito. i don't know what the article says but it mentions the Supreme Court in The Hague.
i would be a good thing to have the spotlight on Van der Sloot when he has to defend a case for the Supreme Court.
i don't think many know that Paulus is still doing his job as attorney.

[klaasend]

I just thought you had a Translator from your computer?

Janet..

I don't think so.

Klaas?

Janet

For translating many languages (other than Pap) the Google translator is pretty darn good.  You can even translate the entire page.  Unfortunately, the only news publication in Aruba NOT in Pap is Amigoe. 

Google translator:

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

[Buckeye]

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/6828/6/#jc_allComments

Comments to the video of Hero Brinkman's comments on Greta's show.  I didn't post them all, but included ones that looked very similar to some I saw posted earlier (from the front page of SM?).


J.V said:

  his day wil come,dont worry.......Pim fortuin pt 2.....His day will come!!! Why dont you and greta come here on vacation? beautifull beaches,peacefull people.....we are waiting on you guys.....bring that dog nancy grace too....You are more than welcome!! Arubans are peaceful people paying a hefty price for what some dutch guys did or didnt do.....Keep talkin long enough and the day comes you have to answer to all of it wheter you want to or not!!!! 

Now, I must say that these are some of the "peaceful" Arubans, that I have come to know.

[texasmom]

Keepthefaith

That's what I think it says.

Are you talking about the Bondia article Buckeye?Be curious as to what it says and if PVDS is a council to a co-defendant in the Luis Mansur case so to speak!

No...OE's post regarding post office.

As for Papiamentu...I don't even go there.  I wait for texasmom to translate the translation.  I do miss our pap translators.  Can we petition google to add the language?  If we did that, Aruba would probably declare a different language.

   I know what you mean Buckeye, if we ever figure it out, they'll change it!  

[Magnolia]

It helps me if I run it through the Pap translator and
then through the Portuguese to English.

[texasmom]

12/17/2008 Bondia

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

So is Paulus involved as a legal representative in the Luis Mansur case??What does this article say??Janet?

Paulus is representing Mr. Leito. i don't know what the article says but it mentions the Supreme Court in The Hague.
i would be a good thing to have the spotlight on Van der Sloot when he has to defend a case for the Supreme Court.
i don't think many know that Paulus is still doing his job as attorney.

I had the same thought Caesu!  Let Paul go to the Hague and defend this.  If I understand the article at the link below correctly, on appeal Paul's clients sentence was increased from 20 months to 41 months!  I think I'd be begging for another lawyer to argue my case...

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%2520internationaal/archief%2520nieuwsbronnen%2520internationaal/2008/2008-12-nieuwsbronnen-internationaal/2008-12-nieuwsbronnen%2520internationaal.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=5&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Melvin%2BLeito%2522%252Bvan%2Bder%2Bsloot%26hl%3Den

[klaasend]

It helps me if I run it through the Pap translator and
then through the Portuguese to English.

Yes, that does help some.  Still, Dutch is much easier don't you think?