Natalee Case Discussion #806 3/9/09 - 3/12/09

[jen3560]

But jen, why does the promo say this at the end?:

WHAT HAPPENED TO NATALEE HOLLOWAY premieres September 18 at 11pm/3am ET and PT On A&E Television.

That's the first show.

The new one doesn't say that, it lists the air date and time at the top of March 12 2009

http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200

[jen3560]

Wreck - this is the promo for the new show:


What Happened to Natalee Holloway?
Thursday 12 March 8:00AM HK/SIN/MAL 7:00AM Thai/WIB
Thursday 12 March 2:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 1:00PM Thai/WIB
Saturday 14 March 1:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 12:00PM Thai/WIB


In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States will set out on an extraordinary mission.  On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them – a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway.

The leader of the effort is Tim Miller, founder of Texas EquuSearch and the father of a 16 year- old girl who was kidnapped and murdered in 1984. Miller has now taken on the recovery of Natalee Holloway as a personal calling.  Miller and Natalee Holloway’s father Dave Holloway, believe that Natalee was likely placed in a crab trap or a steel drum and dumped 3-5 miles offshore, which is where they will focus the search.

Miller has assembled a team of underwater engineering experts from Underwater Expeditions and will bring an arsenal of resources, including hi-tech sonar scanning equipment, underwater video and the help of the FBI and Dutch authorities.  The team has but one goal: to bring Natalee home.

Kurtis Productions has been granted exclusive access to what will be the most extensive deep water search to date for Holloway’s body.  In this documentary special, Bill Kurtis will join the search and document the recovery mission. He will also revisit Natalee Holloway’s disappearance and subsequent investigation to try and answer the questions on everyone’s mind – where is Natalee? And will her case ever be solved?

[Lifesong]

Thanks, Jen!

Did Kyle ever say anything about how it happened that the evidence recovery dive took place on Jan. 7th?

I'm still curious if Silvetti ever gave anyone else a heads up that it was on for that day.

[jen3560]

Thanks, Jen!

Did Kyle ever say anything about how it happened that the evidence recovery dive took place on Jan. 7th?

I'm still curious if Silvetti ever gave anyone else a heads up that it was on for that day.

No - he never elaborated on that.

But in re-reading that post of Kyle's, the dates he was on shore mean more to me now.

While I don't know the exact date that xxxx and xxxx from Kurtis Prod arrived on Aruba, I know it was just a couple of days before the 16th of Jan, and after the 13th of Jan.

So that would put them there either the 14th or 15th.

Kyle said:

"I got off the boat for R&R from the 9th-14th at the Holiday Inn."

So that would have put him on land when Kurtis Prod first arrived.....

[wingnut]

I know we have Silvetti's "liability" remark.

Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th.

Soooooo, Kyle CONVINCED Tim Miller that it was Natalee, who in turn told Dave that it was.

Guess Silvetti got it wrong when he figured TIM as the liability........

[jen3560]

I know we have Silvetti's "liability" remark.

Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th.

Soooooo, Kyle CONVINCED Tim Miller that it was Natalee, who in turn told Dave that it was.

Guess Silvetti got it wrong when he figured TIM as the liability........

That's quite telling though, isn't it?

Tim Miller is an honorable man - who never ever would have stood by while ROV footage was sold to the highest bidder, nor while a blind eye was turned so Aruba could abscond with the contents of that cage.

On the other hand - Silvetti kept Kyle around.

Why?

Kyle had worked on "dozens" of projects for/with Silvetti, so surely Silvetti knew exactly what he could expect from Kyle.........right?

Doesn't say much for Kyle's character - as stacked against that of Tim Miller, now does it?

[wingnut]

I know we have Silvetti's "liability" remark.

Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th.

Soooooo, Kyle CONVINCED Tim Miller that it was Natalee, who in turn told Dave that it was.

Guess Silvetti got it wrong when he figured TIM as the liability........

That's quite telling though, isn't it?

Tim Miller is an honorable man - who never ever would have stood by while ROV footage was sold to the highest bidder, nor while a blind eye was turned so Aruba could abscond with the contents of that cage.

On the other hand - Silvetti kept Kyle around.

Why?

Kyle had worked on "dozens" of projects for/with Silvetti, so surely Silvetti knew exactly what he could expect from Kyle.........right?

Doesn't say much for Kyle's character - as stacked against that of Tim Miller, now does it?

Agreed.  Not posing this as a negative, but Tim Miller seems to be a very trusting man, and maybe sometimes that is a disadvantage.  In this case, I feel it was. 

[Lifesong]

I know we have Silvetti's "liability" remark.

Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th.

Soooooo, Kyle CONVINCED Tim Miller that it was Natalee, who in turn told Dave that it was.

Guess Silvetti got it wrong when he figured TIM as the liability........

That quote has always bothered me.  Kyle just doesn't give Tim Miller any credit. He doesn't seem to even acknowledge that Tim Miller has a history of recovering remains.

I don't like it when Kyle acts like that.

And I really don't mean to downplay the liability remark, but, to be honest, I *can* envision other motivations for Silvetti saying that, (Kyle never said Silvetti said that to Tim or in front of him) however, considering the fiasco with calling Dave and Beth, the statement does carry weight.  My original thought on those calls would be along the lines of Miller being honest and trying to keep the Persistence & ALE/Mos honest. 

But that said...I do not understand Tim Miller still upholding the search and Schaefer/Silvetti.  Nor do I understand him participating in a documentary not approved by the family.

[nonesuche]

nope it doesn't, I don't think Kyle could hold a candle to Tim. Tim also is one of the most humble humans there is.........unlike Kyle.

[nonesuche]

I tried to speak to some of this last night for I know some here wish and hope and are confused why family and/or Tim didn't push Silvetti for more answers. I think it took building out that timeline for many of the pieces of this puzzle to fall into place in a sequential path. That being said, I think we need to remember that what may seem so clear now, just might have not seemed so clear at that time.

I still think that when you are desperate to find your child and bring them home to rest, that you might not feel you are in a position to question too much from those who 'say' they want to help you?

Hope that makes sense for I do think there can be so much gray to this picture......

[Lifesong]

I tried to speak to some of this last night for I know some here wish and hope and are confused why family and/or Tim didn't push Silvetti for more answers. I think it took building out that timeline for many of the pieces of this puzzle to fall into place in a sequential path. That being said, I think we need to remember that what may seem so clear now, just might have not seemed so clear at that time.

I still think that when you are desperate to find your child and bring them home to rest, that you might not feel you are in a position to question too much from those who 'say' they want to help you?

Hope that makes sense for I do think there can be so much gray to this picture......

I think that makes tremendous sense.  The family also cannot publicly criticize this search, even after learning the truth, out of fear that the criticism would be twisted around and spun by someone else's PR machine, make them seem ungrateful for the help and deter any future volunteers.

They really can't say a word.  It's so unfair after everything else.

[jen3560]

Lifesong - I agree, taken alone, that "liability" statement could be innocent and justified.

BUT - it was made like this "........wasn't needed anymore, and was a liability".

I think None is right, hindshight is affording us much understanding here.  Certainly more understanding than Tim could have had at the time..............and maybe still.  He may not have all the information we have.

You pointed out that Kyle doesn't indicate Silvetti told that to Tim himself.....and from more recent news of Tim with Silvetti searching for other missing people, that bears that out.

I cannot fault Tim for calling Beth and Dave on Dec 29th.  His heart, as always, was in the right place.  He couldn't have possibly known what would happen next.

[nonesuche]

I tried to speak to some of this last night for I know some here wish and hope and are confused why family and/or Tim didn't push Silvetti for more answers. I think it took building out that timeline for many of the pieces of this puzzle to fall into place in a sequential path. That being said, I think we need to remember that what may seem so clear now, just might have not seemed so clear at that time.

I still think that when you are desperate to find your child and bring them home to rest, that you might not feel you are in a position to question too much from those who 'say' they want to help you?

Hope that makes sense for I do think there can be so much gray to this picture......

I think that makes tremendous sense.  The family also cannot publicly criticize this search, even after learning the truth, out of fear that the criticism would be twisted around and spun by someone else's PR machine, make them seem ungrateful for the help and deter any future volunteers.

They really can't say a word.  It's so unfair after everything else.

I agree Lifesong you really make some strong points. Thank you again for the timeline.

[jen3560]

I know we have Silvetti's "liability" remark.

Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th.

Soooooo, Kyle CONVINCED Tim Miller that it was Natalee, who in turn told Dave that it was.

Guess Silvetti got it wrong when he figured TIM as the liability........

That's quite telling though, isn't it?

Tim Miller is an honorable man - who never ever would have stood by while ROV footage was sold to the highest bidder, nor while a blind eye was turned so Aruba could abscond with the contents of that cage.

On the other hand - Silvetti kept Kyle around.

Why?

Kyle had worked on "dozens" of projects for/with Silvetti, so surely Silvetti knew exactly what he could expect from Kyle.........right?

Doesn't say much for Kyle's character - as stacked against that of Tim Miller, now does it?

Agreed.  Not posing this as a negative, but Tim Miller seems to be a very trusting man, and maybe sometimes that is a disadvantage.  In this case, I feel it was. 

Agreed.

[jen3560]

Lifesong - I agree, taken alone, that "liability" statement could be innocent and justified.

BUT - it was made like this "........wasn't needed anymore, and was a liability".

I think None is right, hindshight is affording us much understanding here.  Certainly more understanding than Tim could have had at the time..............and maybe still.  He may not have all the information we have.

You pointed out that Kyle doesn't indicate Silvetti told that to Tim himself.....and from more recent news of Tim with Silvetti searching for other missing people, that bears that out.

I cannot fault Tim for calling Beth and Dave on Dec 29th.  His heart, as always, was in the right place.  He couldn't have possibly known what would happen next.

Geez..........what's up with me and dates lately?  Sorry.

[klaasend]

http://www.inbaseline.com/project.aspx?project_id=198463

[wreck]

I'm dumbstruck about the possible "new" show from Kurtis Productions. If we don't get an e-mail back from them -- is there a phone # to call? I cannot fathom that a new show would debut in Thailand!

[Lifesong]

Lifesong - I agree, taken alone, that "liability" statement could be innocent and justified.

BUT - it was made like this "........wasn't needed anymore, and was a liability".

I think None is right, hindshight is affording us much understanding here.  Certainly more understanding than Tim could have had at the time..............and maybe still.  He may not have all the information we have.

You pointed out that Kyle doesn't indicate Silvetti told that to Tim himself.....and from more recent news of Tim with Silvetti searching for other missing people, that bears that out.

I cannot fault Tim for calling Beth and Dave on Dec 29th.  His heart, as always, was in the right place.  He couldn't have possibly known what would happen next.

All good points, Jen.

Here's the another thing that's been stewing around in my head....

What about Hodges?  If it was Natalee in the trap, his ThoughPrints profile was right.  So, he kinda got robbed too.  Based on that profile, iirc, they expected to find her in the trap with the chicken wire stolen from the fisherman huts area.  These remains weren't in a chicken wire trap...you guys have any ideas how the trap could have gotten changed or what the real story is behind that?

(Hope that makes sense...)

[jen3560]

http://www.inbaseline.com/project.aspx?project_id=198463

Thanks klaas.

That was the first show.

Funny all the names I recognize! 

[wreck]

http://www.inbaseline.com/project.aspx?project_id=198463

Thanks klaas.

That was the first show.

Funny all the names I recognize! 

I'm still going to bet this Thai show is a repeat -- maybe they updated the description slightly. We'll see!