Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08

[SS]

I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.

CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.

[ldstlou]

quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.

What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.

[truthseeker2]

I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.

CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.

Are you concerned about Paulus and an Aruban suicide...or, a real suicide? 

[Tamikosmom]

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no  Am I wrong?

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! No way do I believe he was fooled. I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.

Lou

My take:

Until just prior to Kermit releasing images that were spared from destruction by the ALE ... it is my undrstanding that the FBI and/or Natalee's family knew nothing of their existence ... nobody but Kyle who was attempting make deals with some networks.  I believe that was the whole issue.

Kermit believed that the FBI and/or Natalee's family should have been on the receiving end of these withheld images.  Obviously, Kyle must have believe that there was something significant related to the Natalee Holloway case that was revealed in these images or ... he would not be attempting to make a deal with a network.

Lou ... there were five initial images that Kyle sent to the FBI way back when and ... these were the images that the FBI released to Dave Holloway and ... then his wife posted them on the internet.  However ... the recently released images that Kermit posted had not been sent to the family and/or the FBI.

Lou ... nobody knows what the actual contents of that cage was except the ALE.  However ... the images obtained by the ROV prior to the dive ... convinced Tim Miller there was a skull in that cage

Janet 

++++++++

The following is the first updated compilation of quotes derived from emails communication between Kermit and Kyle.

Janet
________


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: march 18, 2008:  If you want, you can get Red from SM off my back. I really don't like that guy. He thinks he knows what's going on but doesn't have a clue. I first saw the pics on the SM home page and fired off an email to Red believing that he would be understanding and help provide answers. I quickly found out what happened on my own and dealt with it. I could not believe his response.

~Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: None of us gave any statements to the authorities after the 29th. It's possible John Silvetti did, because he was the only one conversing with them after Jan 7th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: November 25, 2008, 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat."

Kyle said: "They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th"

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

Kyle said: "John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again."

June 10, 2008 = Kyle states: “He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #903 on: Today at 03:12:23 AM »

Kyle said: "Schafer is sue crazy."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564766;topicseen#msg564766


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #897 on: Today at 03:02:28 AM »

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #883 on: Today at 02:39:52 AM »

Kyle said: " We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564707#msg564707


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #896 on: Today at 03:00:21 AM »

Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #888 on: Today at 02:43:35 AM »

Jan. 7th picture Kyle said: "In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564718#msg564718


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #532 on: Today at 07:06:45 PM »

From Kyle: May 8, 2008: "I've talked with Peter Shouten numerous times back in February. He hasn't seen anything but knows about the blue fabrics. DeVries and Endemol was interested in purchasing the ROV footage and I was working between them, ABC, and CBS to strike a deal."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557660#msg557660


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #882 on: Today at 02:36:28 AM »

Kyle said: "Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564701;topicseen#msg564701


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #802 on: December 02, 2008, 05:16:26 PM »

Kyle said: “The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564125;topicseen#msg564125


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #642 on: November 25, 2008, 10:12:27 PM »

May 8, 2008 = from Kyle: John Silvetti told me today that he may be returning to Aruba very soon for a few days.

May 19, 2008 = from Kyle:
"I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana

JUNE 10, 2008 = from Kyle:
He's [John Silvetti] seriously making plans to open an Aruba office so he can conduct business easier in S. America and that would allow him to do that.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557914;topicseen#msg557914


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #779 11/24/08 -
« Reply #635 on: November 25, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »

from Kyle: "It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim. Everyone I show thinks the same thing without being prompted (including senior ABC execs).

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4179.msg557906;topicseen#msg557906


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #663 on: Today at 09:55:44 PM »

Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further."

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg566856;topicseen#msg566856

[billb's daughter]

I posted this late the other night and I want to bring it forward, as I believe both Kermits and CAPS versions can be put together in a way that both may have pieces of truth in the disappearance of Natalee....for what it is worth. MOO
Please understand...I'm not taking sides, and I really feel uncomfortable when I see long time valued Monkeys seemly in disagreement with each other and calling one another out. What I also take away from this post is that, bottom line, Persistence's mission (searching for Natalee) was a success, and FBI is abreast of the situation. I did say that I agreed with the global picture Kermit was promoting, but that does not mean the I unconditionally discard the picture CAPS has pushed forward. In my opinion, pieces of both can mesh together...CAPS vision of the crime, remains found in the cage, possible remains recovered by ALE in Dec/Jan and/or other remains ending up in CAPS cemetery theory.   I do believe remains were moved multiple times. Thanks again. V/r, billb

[Keepthefaith]

quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.

What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.

The only question i continue to go back to is "IF" no one but ALE has the contents to that cage how does anyone know who or what was in the cage???If no Forensic pathologist tested the contents of the cage to verify if it was human remains,as well as WHO.We will never know!Unless someone DID take portions of the contents and tests were done in private.Makes sense to anyone.Correct me if it seems to far out there!!Anyone

[ldstlou]

I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.

CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.

that is a good point. He did say to joran though...you have to think of the rest of us. What is sad, is the younger two brothers must really be suffering...and like them or not, they seem like victims of paulass and joran too. Would he leave his family to face it alone? That is a good question. I just can't guess.

[SS]

Let's hope that Urine and Paulass don't have a "cup of coffee" before we get the answers that we need.

[ldstlou]

quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.

What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.

The only question i continue to go back to is "IF" no one but ALE has the contents to that cage how does anyone know who or what was in the cage???If no Forensic pathologist tested the contents of the cage to verify if it was human remains,as well as WHO.We will never know!Unless someone DID take portions of the contents and tests were done in private.Makes sense to anyone.Correct me if it seems to far out there!!Anyone

That is why I really wish we could hear from Tim on how close he got to the remains. I just think that man was so focused on finding Natalee...and so sure at first that was her...that if there were any doubt it wasn't Natalee...they would have had to pry him from the boat. I don't think he was just given the boot and left before he was certain.

[crazybabyborg]

I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.

CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.

Are you concerned about Paulus and an Aruban suicide...or, a real suicide? 

For my part, I think Paulus is capable of suicide, but I figure somebody's going to off Joran. It may be that Joran decided to expose some folks who would be behind that effort. That sort of thing gets more difficult when the players are exposed. It becomes too easy to know where to look. It's just a thought and I don't have anything to back that up. Just pulling loose threads.

[SS]

I have absolutely no basis for this, but it crossed my mind when I was thinking about Joran and the very real possibility, IMO, that he's going to turn up dead, that maybe that threat is exactly why he called Greta to begin with.

If anything should happen to him in the near future, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together.

CBB - I am really fearful that someone will go after Urine before we get the real story.  I'm also concerned that Paulass will do the suicide routine before we get to him, also.

Are you concerned about Paulus and an Aruban suicide...or, a real suicide? 

Either one.  Paulass could take the easy way out now that things are closing in.  He could also be given one of the cups of coffee that Caps said Ruth from the bank drank.  If Paulass sings, a lot of important people will fall.  Urine could also be given one of those cups of coffee to shut him up.  I want both of them very much alive.

[Hotshot]

From ldstlou:

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.  Exactly

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no   Am I wrong?  You are correct

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.  Totally agree

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!  I hope you don't think I was the one that implied that, because I didn't.  That was what I was thinking, not them.

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! Absolutely  No way do I believe he was fooled. Agree there also  I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.  This may not be a time to even discuss this with Tim, all good things come in time.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.  It is still being discussed because people wont hang up the pics that were just exposed, and other stuff.  It needs to be left alone IMO

==================================

I wish that Hotshot would let us know exactly where she is getting the information.  I think it would be helpful to everyone. 

My replies are in red above.....  There has been 3+ years of alot of investigation on our part.  The team members here are good in special ways.  Some talk to people great, some find great info on the web about suspects, some take pictures and clarify them, some go out and do tourism shows, some talk to media.  Together, they all make a whole.  We all have opinions as to what happened, I have my own.  I have gone on what stuck me to be right, you guys go on that also.  My theory doesn't have to be the correct one.  When things come out, and they will, we are all going to say, I focused on that, hey..I knew that.  We all have our own bits and pieces.  No-one is right, no-one is totally wrong.  I wont put my theory out here in full, I don't want to be slammed.  my friends know my theory.  Yes, I have talked to many of the people in this case, as many of us on here have.  I still do.  In the beginning it was cool to come out with something new, the "I got it first" syndrome.  That is not the case anymore.  Like I have been saying, some things just need to surface in time, or it can blow everything up like it has done in the past.  Oh believe me, I would love to spew things, but why hinder anything that might be in the works.  I have been there and done that, and am not too proud of it to say the least.  I think we all need to just sit back, relax, and now watch them bury themselves.  Its now public as far as Rudy, and Jan go.  Joran gave it all a headstart.  Now watch them sweat.  I know Paulus is.

[truthseeker2]

Ss,
I agree.  We need them alive and talking.  It's way past time for them to give it up.

[Keepthefaith]

quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.

What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.

The only question i continue to go back to is "IF" no one but ALE has the contents to that cage how does anyone know who or what was in the cage???If no Forensic pathologist tested the contents of the cage to verify if it was human remains,as well as WHO.We will never know!Unless someone DID take portions of the contents and tests were done in private.Makes sense to anyone.Correct me if it seems to far out there!!Anyone

That is why I really wish we could hear from Tim on how close he got to the remains. I just think that man was so focused on finding Natalee...and so sure at first that was her...that if there were any doubt it wasn't Natalee...they would have had to pry him from the boat. I don't think he was just given the boot and left before he was certain.

Are you speaking of Tim Trahan??If he dove on the contents and said there were no remains prior to the Jan 7th dive from ALE why would ALE dive?These should be simple questions.I believe OE(Kyle) stated that on Jan 7th Ale dove from their own boat and got back into their own boat!Why the need to film and or take pictures when they dove??Why would they come out after it was already signaled there were no remains??Just thoughts...

[ldstlou]

Lou

My take:

Until just prior to Kermit releasing images that were spared from destruction by the ALE ... it is my undrstanding that the FBI and/or Natalee's family knew nothing of their existence ... nobody but Kyle who was attempting make deals with some networks.  I believe that was the whole issue.

Why do we believe that FBI or family did not see these? I don't know the dynamics at all of who taped what on the boat...I really don't. Was Kyle doing all the taping? Who hid the images? What was the motive? I would think if you wanted to make $$...there would be MUCh more made IF it truely were Natalee.

I do know that Jug saw them when we e-mailed them to him. So I know they have seen them now...and they still have the same conclusion...Natalee was not in the cage. The family knows much more than we think they know...that I know!! lol If Natalee were in that cage...Beth would be all over it!!!

Kermit believed that the FBI and/or Natalee's family should have been on the receiving end of these withheld images.  Obviously, Kyle must have believe that there was something significant related to the Natalee Holloway case that was revealed in these images or ... he would not be attempting to make a deal with a network.

My understanding is, that they were trying to raise funds to go back and continue the search...there were many targets that were hopeful they did not have the money to look into when they had to quit. That is my understanding of trying to sell the images...it had nothing to do with photos that were kept from the family or FBI.

Lou ... there were five initial images that Kyle sent to the FBI way back when and ... these were the images that the FBI released to Dave Holloway and ... then his wife posted them on the internet.  However ... the recently released images that Kermit posted had not been sent to the family and/or the FBI.

That we know of. Again...Jug was not shocked or alarmed by them. I didn't ask him if he had seen them before..because quite frankly...he thought the whole thing rediculous..and when he does...he makes his point and ends the conversation and moves on to the next point ..lol

Lou ... nobody knows what the actual contents of that cage was except the ALE.  However ... the images obtained by the ROV prior to the dive ... convinced Tim Miller there was a skull in that cage

But something else caused him to go on National tv...and with a broken heart...admit he had jumped the gun..and to say his biggest regret was jumping the gun and calling Dave before he was absolutely sure. Do you remember that interview? I wish we could find it again

Janet 

[ldstlou]

quote: Ldstlou:

I have to back track..I don't know Dave and have never talked to him, so I really can't say what he believes. I know for a fact what Jug and Beth believe about Kermits theory.

What do they believe? TIA

They don't have Natalee's body. She was not in the cage. The crew of the Persistence did not find Natalee and cover it up...and Jug says he doesn't even understand why it is being discussed..it's ridiculous! I asked if I could post that..he said yes.

I was then asked if he had specifically seen the photos that Kermit was discussing. Lalas e-mailed them to him. I told Jug about the e-mail that Kermit posted from Beth, that Kermit said Beth told her it was ok to expose the cover-up ...as in Persistance finding Natalee and hiding it...you DON'T want to know his response was to that one..lol

So Kermit just came to a wrong conclusion or theory while he was trying to peice things together. Right?

I truely believe that Kermit believes what she is saying. I don't know her, I have absolutely nothing against her at all. Other Monkeys say she is a great Gal..I trust their judgement...but I do believe she came to the wrong conclusion.

The only question i continue to go back to is "IF" no one but ALE has the contents to that cage how does anyone know who or what was in the cage???If no Forensic pathologist tested the contents of the cage to verify if it was human remains,as well as WHO.We will never know!Unless someone DID take portions of the contents and tests were done in private.Makes sense to anyone.Correct me if it seems to far out there!!Anyone

That is why I really wish we could hear from Tim on how close he got to the remains. I just think that man was so focused on finding Natalee...and so sure at first that was her...that if there were any doubt it wasn't Natalee...they would have had to pry him from the boat. I don't think he was just given the boot and left before he was certain.

Are you speaking of Tim Trahan??If he dove on the contents and said there were no remains prior to the Jan 7th dive from ALE why would ALE dive?These should be simple questions.I believe OE(Kyle) stated that on Jan 7th Ale dove from their own boat and got back into their own boat!Why the need to film and or take pictures when they dove??Why would they come out after it was already signaled there were no remains??Just thoughts...

Tim Miller

[ldstlou]

From ldstlou:

damned UPS men...what are they good for anyways???!! lol

Again...of course Monkeys are going to explore every possibility!! That is what we do.  Exactly

But again, what bothers me is posting private e-mails here..I was told long ago..that was a no-no   Am I wrong?  You are correct

Let me tell you...I go back and forth with the Kennedy conspiracy too. I see what "factual" show..I believe in conspiracy...see another..makes me doubt it. Same evidence can certainly be interpreted different ways.  Totally agree

But implying that Beth or Dave or Jug, or any of the family believes Natalee was in that cage is absolutely wrong!!! I know that as a fact!  I hope you don't think I was the one that implied that, because I didn't.  That was what I was thinking, not them.

I think it also does a disservice to Tim Miller. That man wanted Natalee found as much as the family did!! Absolutely  No way do I believe he was fooled. Agree there also  I said this before...if you want the facts of what happened...there are enough Monkeys who know Tim well enough...I don't know him at all or I would e-mail him...but enough who do that could clear this up in a sec.  This may not be a time to even discuss this with Tim, all good things come in time.

I went straight to Jug...he said she was not in the cage...family does not believe she was in the cage...they don't believe she was found in the cage...and he doesn't even know why it is being discussed...and still it is being said the family has Natalee. Its just not true.  It is still being discussed because people wont hang up the pics that were just exposed, and other stuff.  It needs to be left alone IMO

==================================

I wish that Hotshot would let us know exactly where she is getting the information.  I think it would be helpful to everyone. 

My replies are in red above.....  There has been 3+ years of alot of investigation on our part.  The team members here are good in special ways.  Some talk to people great, some find great info on the web about suspects, some take pictures and clarify them, some go out and do tourism shows, some talk to media.  Together, they all make a whole.  We all have opinions as to what happened, I have my own.  I have gone on what stuck me to be right, you guys go on that also.  My theory doesn't have to be the correct one.  When things come out, and they will, we are all going to say, I focused on that, hey..I knew that.  We all have our own bits and pieces.  No-one is right, no-one is totally wrong.  I wont put my theory out here in full, I don't want to be slammed.  my friends know my theory.  Yes, I have talked to many of the people in this case, as many of us on here have.  I still do.  In the beginning it was cool to come out with something new, the "I got it first" syndrome.  That is not the case anymore.  Like I have been saying, some things just need to surface in time, or it can blow everything up like it has done in the past.  Oh believe me, I would love to spew things, but why hinder anything that might be in the works.  I have been there and done that, and am not too proud of it to say the least.  I think we all need to just sit back, relax, and now watch them bury themselves.  Its now public as far as Rudy, and Jan go.  Joran gave it all a headstart.  Now watch them sweat.  I know Paulus is.

Hey Sweetie!! Long time no see!!

I was actually talking about Kermit's views in my post. I haven't read yours yet!!! lol I really haven't gotten that far in catching up yet.
I did have to backtrack though Hotshot and say I don't know Dave...can't speak for him at all...but I did talk to Jug, and continue to tell him about Kermit's view, and that is what I was referring to.

[AZLady]

Hi Monkeys.  I've been reading back... and back...and back.  Whew!  Interesting stuff.  I have to say I agree with Tamikosmom's assessment.  This is very puzzling.  We either have to conclude that the cover up extended to the Aruban processing of the cage contents, or we have to entertain the concept of a huge conspiracy, rather of the counter-spy variety.  Should we keep our silence and "trust" that the conspirators will reveal all in time?  Ha, ha, ha.  This is not the monkey way, for sure.  Actually, I find it more logical that the coverup extended all the way from June, 2005, to the present, including the processing of the cage contents.

[Frank]

If Jan van der straaten is covering up, what do you call what Hans Mos isn't not doing alot of?

jan van der straaten "saw" the evidence. And he didn't see it on the beach.

the next wall to break down is focus on where she died, the van der sloot house.

[Tamikosmom]

Lou ... I am personally going to get to the bottom of all this issue once and for all.  I am not going to discuss this topic again on the forum until or if I have something to report.

GOOD NIGHT MY FRIEND!  GOOD NIGHT MONKEYS!  GOOD NIGHT ZOO GEEPERS!

Janet

_______


Miller/Dave Holloway
NBC DATELINE
February 22, 2008

And on Dec. 29 the crew dropped a remote operated vehicle, or ROV, into the water to get a closer look.
 
Tim Miller: It looked like a skull. Still looks like a skull.

Chris Hansen: So, you're thinking-- you're thinking at this point--
Tim Miller: I’m thinking at this point, "Oh, my God, maybe we've got something. Maybe we've got something."

Could they have found her? Or was hope, perhaps, making them see what they wanted to see?

(on the boat)

Tim Miller: In my years of searching we have seen several bodies, skeletal remains--I have seen my own daughter's skeletal remains.  I can’t help but believe at this moment that that is human remains in that crab trap.
<snipped>

Dave Holloway: He (Miller) told me, he said, "Dave, we found her."

Chris Hansen: "We found her?"
 
Dave Holloway: Yeah. I said, "Are you sure?" and he said, "I’m 99.9 percent sure." He said, "We hadn't gone down and dove under or anything. But the photographs--" he said, "I tell you, Dave." I-- he said, "That's what we're looking for. And that's gotta -- that -- that's it."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/4/


Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #780 11/26/08 -
« Reply #902 on: Today at 03:09:00 AM »

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763