Natalee Case Discussion #710 1/03 - 1/09/2007

[MumInOhio]

Student quotes....alot of the links don't work any more, but some do.

http://scrux.com/natalee/studentquotes.htm

Greta interview:

http://scrux.com/natalee/mbinterview.htm

Will look for Deepak's PV in the morning.

[Kermit]

Is it Paulus van der Sloot?

BETH’S JUNE 1, 2005 STATEMENT WAS CHANGED:
“Beth said that one of the things that had gotten changed about her statements that was so upsetting to her was that she had given detailed descriptions of Paulus Van der Sloot with his name included several times in her statement and when she got it translated, she found out that her description had been changed to read only “the man with the glasses”.


HOLLOWAY TWITTY: Well, there was a phone call made. And it was just really having me refer to—you know, I‘d only mentioned the fact I had gotten from prosecuting attorney as far as the open line of credit, and that Joran is in his casino gambling, and I don‘t think there was ever a question that Joran and Paulus Van Der Sloot had been in that Excelsior Casino, and, particularly, on the night of the 29th where he and his father met Natalee.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9407728/



KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE’S SOURCES:
June 9, 2006

Kimberly Guilfoyle: What we do know is that Joran and the Kalpoe brothers were the last people seen with Natalee Holloway, which is the reason why they still remain to this day the main suspects in the case. As for Paulus, sources say he is the person next to Natalie in the casino. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198887,00.html


JOHN Q. KELLY
April 4, 2006

COSBY … John, first of all, is there a possibility that Paulus might have been talking to Natalee the night that she disappeared?

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times. And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/




Zoltan Zion blogspot this afternoon announcing that a "source" has confirmed that the person in the casino video is definitely Paulus van der Sloot.  Also confirming that Van Der Straaten was definitely at the party at the Sloots after Joran's release from his original detention.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2439.100

MANSUR: There have not been any change of opinion. People, including people in the casino say that is Paul.
(Dana Pretzer's radio show)

[Kermit]

Hello everyone. I have been trying to think of something effective that can be done to help Beth keep the pressure on Aruba. Does anyone think this might be an effective tool?

If we had a good letter writer and an attorny to review the letter to assess liability, I wonder how effective it would be to write a letter to the major newspapers of each state basically to tell of Beth's treatment, the boycott, etc

My suggestion would be to turn the tables on Aruba and get a dream team and go to the top & cc Interpol:


At the direction of the President or the Attorney General, the FBI may use its statutory authority to investigate and arrest individuals for violating United States law, even if the FBI’s actions contravene customary international law. The President, acting through the Attorney General, has the inherent constitutional authority to deploy the FBI to investigate and arrest individuals for violating United States law, even if those actions contravene customary international law. Extraterritorial law enforcement activities that are authorized by domestic law are not barred even if they contravene unexecuted treaties or treaty provisions, such as Article 2(4) of the
United Nations Charter. An arrest that is inconsistent with international or foreign law does not violate the Fourth Amendment.

And I would include in that letter:

We read in Extracts of the Espionage and Sabotage Acts and other related federal criminal statutes: U.S. CODE, SECTION 1001, states that "Whoever, in any mater within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States knowingly and willfully falsifies, conceals or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact, or makes any false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or representations, or makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or entry, shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years or both


Now view this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymSWgZm6ivo

Dompig admits there was sexual assault to charge Joran, & Kalpoes and they should be charged, BUT they changed the investigation!
p. 193 (Beth's book) - November 2, 2005 Dompig on MSNBC - Rita Cosby show stated "They are gulty as hell."
Then if you read his various accusations he has accused Beth for interfering in the investigation to place blame on her, he has made accusations that Natalee bought drugs, he has made accusations that Natalee died of an overdose,
he has made accusations that Natalee was buried in the sea, that she ran away, that Beth made her disappear to collect insurance money. He intentionally withheld Texas Equu Search & FBI divers from searches and he has made accusations that the answers are in the United States with the Mountain Brook teens. When the truth is it was Dompig, Dennis Jacobs, Karin Janssen, Jan van der Straaten and unscrupulous judges that allowed the investigation to turn into a circus and crime that the world is still watching and wondering why the DUTCH are so flagrantly standing by and allowing the illegal conduct of the government and judiciary to prolificate. While tourism dollars are sinking Aruba's economy and their only hope is to make deals with illegal entities to keep Aruba afloat.

In addition file not only defamation lawsuits against Dompig, but also American's Julia Renfro and Charles Croes for their part in the cover-up with false and malicious intent to willfully cover-up and slander Beth Holloway and her daughter Natalee Holloway, but also under the Extracts of the Espionage and Sabotage Acts  - which is basically treason act of the U.S. Code.


Pierce the Evil and bring Justice for Natalee.

Well, that is what I would do.

ribbit

ART WOOD:The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an american citizen there.

[MumInOhio]

O/T....Carolyn needs prayers and please light a candle.

[Observer]

(that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court)

Whats KJ'S excuse for holding on to this very important information and then presenting it in her final note to the court? Same excuse for letting the suspect go free for 10 days brfore they were arrested? Same excuse for not searching the entire Van Der Sloot residence?

[Lala'sMom]

From Jaime's PV 6/17/2005


On May 29th 2005, between the hours of 16.00 and 19.00, I was called by Joran on my mobile phone with the phone number "xxxxxxx". Sometimes Joran calls me on the mobile phone of my sister, her name is "Maria del Pilar CARRASQUIXIA CACERES". Her calling name is "Pilar". The mobile phone number of Pilar is "xxxxxxx". The mobile phone number of Joran is "xxxxxxx". Joran had asked me whether I wanted to go out with him that night. He told me that a few American girls would go to "Carlos & Charlies" and whether I wanted to meet up with him there. According to me I had said to Joran that I would let him know later that day whether or not I would go out with him that night. I had also said to Joran that I had to work the next day. According to me I was phoned later that day by Joran again but I hadn't answered my mobile phone. Because it is the vacation now I temporarily work in "Caribbean Overseas". I work in the big Poolkasten. On May 29th 2005 I stayed home and slept. I went to bed at approximately 22.00 hours.

This is what I mean...Jamie was in bed at 10 and Joran called him at 11.  Wait!  I thought Paulus picked Joran up at 11?  Oh, I must be confused again...Jamie had to go to work but he was called by Joran between 4 and 6 PM that day.  Did he call Jaime right after he met Natalee on the beach?  Was this the earlier in the day that Lee spoke of? Did he tell Jaime he found his next victim...er...I mean target....uh...his new friend?  Did these girls mention to Joran that they would be in the casino that night too?  Hmmmmm.  We need to see those other 302's.  The phone logs should be able to clear this up....oh wait...they don't exist for this particular moment in time....or do they?   

[Lala'sMom]

From previous post by Kermit...snipped to save space...

Superior Court
January, 2007

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court).  The taped information and his declaration that  he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”


Since this appears to be on tape as having happened let's think about it.  It does however require us to forget some of what we think we know and what we want to believe...so open your mind for just a minute...let's think outside the KISS box for a moment.

Could this be a true statement made concerning Paulus picking up Joran and Natalee?  Could the Klapoes have really left Joran and Natalee on the beach just long enough for Paulus to come by and pick them up?  What was happening at the HI?  We know they didn't take her back to drop her off and then go home.  Not once does Paulus say he picked up both Natalee and Joran that I remember. So if this is true...where did Paulus take them?  To a party perhaps?  Maybe Natalee had begun to sober up just a little and had actually been on the beach with Joran just long enough to get picked up by daddy.  She would not be worried when he showed up to get them...after all, she had met him in the casino and knew he was Joran's father.  It's a trust thing, I know...but I am trying to think a little differently here.  So she gets in the car or jeep or whatever and off she goes.  What happened?  We know they did not go to the HI or do we?  Was there a party there?  Who knows? Maybe it was another place...a different hotel...a house...the Sloots?  If this is a true statement and they were picked up by Paulus...then when did Natalee die?  Is it true then, that the Kalpoes only saw her as being asleep or passed out in Joran's lap in the back of the car?  Satish asks how is the girl?  Had she gotten sick riding in the back seat and they stopped to let her throw up and she didn't get out in time and she threw up in the car?  Did Deepak leave them on the beach because she messed up the car?  Was she in such bad shape that by the time she was left on the beach with Joran that she died there?   Did Paulus then come to get them and help him get rid of Natalee?  I know Shango says they did not build sand castles...well standing on the side of the road waiting for a pick up is not being on the beach...so maybe that is what he meant.  Did Simian know about this tape when he asks about the phone call at 2 in the morning? Did Natalee get very ill between the time Joran was left at the beach by Deepak and the time Paulus arrived? It might have been about....what 15  minutes?  Why did the impound three cars?  The only one involved was Deepak's unless....unless...this statement is true about Paulus picking them up. Was Paulus even at home ?  I know I am rambling, but maybe it will jog someone's memory and something will surface. Maybe someone will remember reading something that I haven't.   I need to take a break...think about it.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm
If you were asleep who answered your phone?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.

Simian Says:June 25th, 2005 at 6:47 pm
There are 3 vehicles.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 6:57 pm
The phone call made in the small hours.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:00 pm
The boy is biting his tongue. It is all chewed up, bloody and sore.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
In the other car.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

[Destiny]

Good Morning!   Thanks Hotshot! Do you know anything about GVC house.... was it always yellow? Looking for a house that could be confused with Astrid's or maybe Lorenzo's. TIA


Did anyone notice anything when they opened that blog link that  Klaas posted last night, or is it just me?

 

Well, I guess it's just me...It showed my ISP, my internet company and what IE I had and then said ha ha!

Had it opened for a while before I went to read and it was a couple down ...went

Yeah, there are programs that do that.  The same thing happens at the RaceJunkies forum.  I'm not sure but my guess is only you can read it but it is surprising to see.

Klass this happened 5 miles from my house...it's so very sad...the whole community of Suches, in Union County, GA are grievly stricken by this horrible crime.

My home and business, are in Suches.  We take in trail hikers all the time at our small mnt. resort.

Prayers to the Family....Hell and damnation to the MONSTER!!!

[Destiny]

Good Morning!   Thanks Hotshot! Do you know anything about GVC house.... was it always yellow? Looking for a house that could be confused with Astrid's or maybe Lorenzo's. TIA


Did anyone notice anything when they opened that blog link that  Klaas posted last night, or is it just me?

 

Well, I guess it's just me...It showed my ISP, my internet company and what IE I had and then said ha ha!

Had it opened for a while before I went to read and it was a couple down ...went

Yeah, there are programs that do that.  The same thing happens at the RaceJunkies forum.  I'm not sure but my guess is only you can read it but it is surprising to see.

Klass this happened 5 miles from my house...it's so very sad...the whole community of Suches, in Union County, GA are grievly stricken by this horrible crime.

My home and business, are in Suches.  We take in trail hikers all the time at our small mnt. resort.

Prayers to the Family....Hell and damnation to the MONSTER!!!

SORRY I QUOTED/REPLIED TO THE WRONG POST!!!!

Mea Culpa...

Destiny

[klaasend]

From previous post by Kermit...snipped to save space...

Superior Court
January, 2007

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court).  The taped information and his declaration that  he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”


Since this appears to be on tape as having happened let's think about it.  It does however require us to forget some of what we think we know and what we want to believe...so open your mind for just a minute...let's think outside the KISS box for a moment.

Could this be a true statement made concerning Paulus picking up Joran and Natalee?  Could the Klapoes have really left Joran and Natalee on the beach just long enough for Paulus to come by and pick them up?  What was happening at the HI?  We know they didn't take her back to drop her off and then go home.  Not once does Paulus say he picked up both Natalee and Joran that I remember. So if this is true...where did Paulus take them?  To a party perhaps?  Maybe Natalee had begun to sober up just a little and had actually been on the beach with Joran just long enough to get picked up by daddy.  She would not be worried when he showed up to get them...after all, she had met him in the casino and knew he was Joran's father.  It's a trust thing, I know...but I am trying to think a little differently here.  So she gets in the car or jeep or whatever and off she goes.  What happened?  We know they did not go to the HI or do we?  Was there a party there?  Who knows? Maybe it was another place...a different hotel...a house...the Sloots?  If this is a true statement and they were picked up by Paulus...then when did Natalee die?  Is it true then, that the Kalpoes only saw her as being asleep or passed out in Joran's lap in the back of the car?  Satish asks how is the girl?  Had she gotten sick riding in the back seat and they stopped to let her throw up and she didn't get out in time and she threw up in the car?  Did Deepak leave them on the beach because she messed up the car?  Was she in such bad shape that by the time she was left on the beach with Joran that she died there?   Did Paulus then come to get them and help him get rid of Natalee?  I know Shango says they did not build sand castles...well standing on the side of the road waiting for a pick up is not being on the beach...so maybe that is what he meant.  Did Simian know about this tape when he asks about the phone call at 2 in the morning? Did Natalee get very ill between the time Joran was left at the beach by Deepak and the time Paulus arrived? It might have been about....what 15  minutes?  Why did the impound three cars?  The only one involved was Deepak's unless....unless...this statement is true about Paulus picking them up. Was Paulus even at home ?  I know I am rambling, but maybe it will jog someone's memory and something will surface. Maybe someone will remember reading something that I haven't.   I need to take a break...think about it.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:05 pm
If you were asleep who answered your phone?

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 3:09 pm
You can’t remember answering a phone call at 2:00 in the morning? When the next day your son was picked up?

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 3:31 pm
The father was confronted with evidence. Can’t confirm if it’s from the cars of the house. They needed this to make him talk.

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
The phone call to the father was made at 4:00 in the morning. No wonder he was late for school.

Simian Says:June 25th, 2005 at 6:47 pm
There are 3 vehicles.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 6:57 pm
The phone call made in the small hours.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:00 pm
The boy is biting his tongue. It is all chewed up, bloody and sore.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
In the other car.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.

I believe PVDS did pick up Natalee and Joran at 4am but by that time Natalee was either already dead or almost.

[Buckeye]

I believe the US Attorney General can make a case for targeting American female tourists.  I believe it would be a hate crime by a gang...twenty times...Dompig's son also involved.  Interpol would be involved because of police corruption.  I believe Dopmig and the FBI are very well aware of this.

[dennisintn]

[


[/quote]

I believe PVDS did pick up Natalee and Joran at 4am but by that time Natalee was either already dead or almost.
[/quote]
dr. bad said that if she died of alcohol poisoning/drug overdose or combination of both, death would not have occured for several hours after she lapsed into unconsciousness.
dennisintn

[Buckeye]

Let's say you've known someone since you were little.  That someone gets motion sick, on the water and has never been on your boat (as stated in "the diaries").  Would you really invite that friend on the boat??  Why bother?

Joran lists everyone he has bumped into or called....except no mention of Sander....Koen yes...but no Sander....and no mention of a boat.

What made ALE ask Sander about Joran, related to that boat??  Who gave them the heads up??  Don't see a boat mentioned in any PV.  Yet, low and behold, when Sander is questioned about Joran and the boat, by golly he did invite the guy aboard that Sunday...how coincidental.

Now then, over two weeks of not notifying setar of a "stolen" phone (not lost), that someone could be using and racking up bills...Sander discloses he has discussed his phone issue with Freddy (the day after it was "stolen").

Is Sander a safe fall guy because of his age??  or...is he the boatman? hmmmmm

[dennisintn]

I believe the US Attorney General can make a case for targeting American female tourists.  I believe it would be a hate crime by a gang...twenty times...Dompig's son also involved.  Interpol would be involved because of police corruption.  I believe Dopmig and the FBI are very well aware of this.

this could be exactly the reason paulus and j2k is getting so much support and help from the privileged in power on the island.  it is definitely the kind of thing that would ruin their money train for years.  look how many of the power players have sons in this age range that could be implicated in this kind of thing.
dennisintn

[Nut44x4]

  mmm...Ocean search site is quiet...no update since Sun. 4:30 pm.

[Buckeye]

I believe the US Attorney General can make a case for targeting American female tourists.  I believe it would be a hate crime by a gang...twenty times...Dompig's son also involved.  Interpol would be involved because of police corruption.  I believe Dopmig and the FBI are very well aware of this.

this could be exactly the reason paulus and j2k is getting so much support and help from the privileged in power on the island.  it is definitely the kind of thing that would ruin their money train for years.  look how many of the power players have sons in this age range that could be implicated in this kind of thing.
dennisintn

 

[Buckeye]

Lala and others looking for 302s etc.  This is a pretty easily accessible site.

Jonathan (Shizaru  sp?)'s site:

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/index.htm

[Magnolia]

Let's say you've known someone since you were little.  That someone gets motion sick, on the water and has never been on your boat (as stated in "the diaries").  Would you really invite that friend on the boat??  Why bother?

Joran lists everyone he has bumped into or called....except no mention of Sander....Koen yes...but no Sander....and no mention of a boat.

What made ALE ask Sander about Joran, related to that boat??  Who gave them the heads up??  Don't see a boat mentioned in any PV.  Yet, low and behold, when Sander is questioned about Joran and the boat, by golly he did invite the guy aboard that Sunday...how coincidental.

Now then, over two weeks of not notifying setar of a "stolen" phone (not lost), that someone could be using and racking up bills...Sander discloses he has discussed his phone issue with Freddy (the day after it was "stolen").

Is Sander a safe fall guy because of his age??  or...is he the boatman? hmmmmm

I have always thought Sander drove the boat.  I think Koen was
too afraid.  It was said that Koen was in Florida, but I think he
was just scared.

[Observer]

mmm...Ocean search site is quiet...no update since Sun. 4:30 pm.

Agreed!! Whats going on?? 

[Buckeye]

Let's say you've known someone since you were little.  That someone gets motion sick, on the water and has never been on your boat (as stated in "the diaries").  Would you really invite that friend on the boat??  Why bother?

Joran lists everyone he has bumped into or called....except no mention of Sander....Koen yes...but no Sander....and no mention of a boat.

What made ALE ask Sander about Joran, related to that boat??  Who gave them the heads up??  Don't see a boat mentioned in any PV.  Yet, low and behold, when Sander is questioned about Joran and the boat, by golly he did invite the guy aboard that Sunday...how coincidental.

Now then, over two weeks of not notifying setar of a "stolen" phone (not lost), that someone could be using and racking up bills...Sander discloses he has discussed his phone issue with Freddy (the day after it was "stolen").

Is Sander a safe fall guy because of his age??  or...is he the boatman? hmmmmm

I have always thought Sander drove the boat.  I think Koen was
too afraid.  It was said that Koen was in Florida, but I think he
was just scared.

Maybe their parents were in Florida.........