Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #22 8/19/10 - 8/21/10

[txlisa]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

(BBM)

You know, I actually saw a program some time ago that said sending your child to their room/bed as punishment will lead to sleeping disorders in adulthood because of the negative associations with that room.  Made sense to me but I still do it.  There's no place else to send them in our house.

Like Dennis the Menace, I had my own little chair in a corner of the room.

I had that in preschool.   I was a free spirit and that got me into trouble!

[Justamama]

I just find it interesting that James said he only heard his mom and Kaine fight once in eight years, and the couple fought in private.  I have never heard of that before, good way of doing it though. Would love to know how often they fought in private.

TRUE STORY...I did NOT know my parents fought until I was a senior in high school!!  They though I was outside when I had come in the back to get a coat.  I over heard them and I was in SHOCK.

They use to send us outside a lot.   I guess this was when they were 'discussing' things.

[Puzzler]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I cannot speak for Kaine Horman.  You would have to ask him this question.

Okay, well I take it that his only agenda is getting his son back. 

I see that Kaine and Desiree both very much want their son back 

no rose

I am not doubting that but ... on the other hand ... there is something terrible wrong when these two are the ONLY source of information on this case other than unnamed "credible sources".

Janet

When you consider that Kaine and Terri's lives have crossed many, many people and those people are not talking; Kaine has many co-workers and those people aren't talking; that LE is sending most of it's information through the parents to the public, and then in instances after the parents have spoken to point out that it was not information released to the public via the LE; it's all just too tight-lipped for a young boy having gone missing. 

It's uncomfortable...many, many people have pointed this out on this forum and in other forums.  You don't normally hear about this degree of press/public information control in cases of missing children.  We don't normally hear so many voices expressing concern that there's so much control.  You don't normally hear a parent want to ban the two largest news medias in a missing child's area from any information about the case because they're not planning as a team member in the parent's opinion.  IMO that's why it stands out in this case.  If my child were missing, I'd want every iota of press coverage and by every single reporter, TV station, radio station, print press, etc., to cover the fact that my child was missing. 

It's not understandable.  It's uncomfortable to watch.  And...it makes people question it!

Excuse me..above...planning = playing

[nicubird]

After reading the OL article I am wondering about Kaine's business trip to CA they referenced.  I remember (near the beginning of this disappearance) giving some thought to a possiblity that the CA trip planned for this summer indicated a possible move and that Terri may NOT have been okay w/ relocation.
IMO
P
btw, Good Morning, Monkeys.

Good morning Tolerance!

I think Terri was not o. k. with a lot of things. 
I can't understand why she was so focused on Kyron's daily color cards.
Did she want to use this to complain to Kaine about him...have Kaine on his case too?   

Because if Kyron were to "misbehave" in school it would reflect bad on her???

I'm sure he was punished when he didn't get his greens.

Consider if you will, the SOURCE of this information about the discipline is Kaine Horman.

Why would he lie?  I have a hard time seeing Terri as this poor put upon "victim" of Kaine Horman.  So the man has faults, so does Terri and PLENTY OF THEM!  Terri is the one who couldn't have given a rats a** that her stepson was missing, no in fact she was complaining to Desiree about her hair do. 

Kaine Horman has his own agenda just like everyone does.  I have an agenda so do you, so did my dear sweet departed grandmother.  I don't know why KH would lie.  I don't know IF KH is lying.  I do know that a person can tell the truth and ADD to it, change the truth, STRETCH the truth to fit what their particular agenda may be.

I do find it interesting that some people are so quick to dismiss KH's faults and focus on Terri's.  This investigation could have taken an entirely different flavor with a different media spin.

In the end, I don't care about any of it I just want to see Kyron found.  One way or another and there doesn't seem to be much effort spent on behalf of the media to offer up any good ideas on how to LOOK for him.

A good friend of mine made an excellent point the other day, he said; "You can't find something if you aren't LOOKING for it."

Excellent advise I think.

I am trying to be objective. I think there is still a possibility that Terri is a completely horrible person but didn't do anything to Kyron.

I couldn't have said it better.  I have also been saying this since the first time I saw Terri in that original press conference;  She's not someone I would want to hang around, she's not the personality type I usually am drawn to in a friend BUT even at that I want to see the evidence, NOT the bitter innuendo from a former mate.

Having written that though, I will say that in that article I did notice a theme...I was going to go back and count how many times the word CONTROL was used in describing Terri.  I found that interesting.

I have read HUNDREDS of posts about how Kaine is controlling BUT in that article I would say I have to believe what this wide variety of people are saying...when that large of an assortment of people offer their accounting freely and again and again nearly all of them say basically, "She was VERY much in CONTROL" then to me that means something.

Someone who is in control doesn't change, (Usually, moo).  When people who demand control like that are OUT of control they do in fact become OUT of control.  She may have met her match in Kaine, two strong willed people living in the same household and she just couldn't stand it.

That said, if she's responsible for this then this was very, very well planned out.  A former co-worker of hers said she had her lesson plans laid out for days in advance.

The Science fair wasn't a fluke, it wasn't a surprise it was PLANNED.  She would have known that it would be chaotic.

In control.

Hmmmmm....

This is very thought provoking line of reasoning. I agree with you.

[Tracygirl]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

A parent need to have a balance. The article never said there was not a balance, it said she wanted kyron to be punished, or held accountable for his loosing the green. I think it said he was to be put on a time out or loose something? That is not overboard in my opinion.

[txlisa]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

A parent need to have a balance. The article never said there was not a balance, it said she wanted kyron to be punished, or held accountable for his loosing the green. I think it said he was to be put on a time out or loose something? That is not overboard in my opinion.

Ya but to constantly expect that on a daily basis is unreasonable.  They are kids FFS!  Not programmable robots!

[Scatty]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I cannot speak for Kaine Horman.  You would have to ask him this question.

Okay, well I take it that his only agenda is getting his son back. 

Well I think it is fair to say that Kaines opinions right now are a little slanted. He is upset with Terri and blaming her for his son having gone missing. I am not saying he has this right or not, 

I too might be slightly suspicious of someone who tried to have me killed. Stranger abduction, or the psycho from home. Tough decision--not.

Scatty why do you attact my post? Is it because I am in the middle? Nothing upsets more people then someone on middle ground. It is only logical to think he would be slanted so then what he says be taken with that into consideration. Whether or not that is warrented has nothing to do with it and that is what I said

TG! I wasn't attacking your post. At least I didn't think so. I'm sooo sorry if you thought that. We just disagree sometimes and I understand; I just love adding my two cents, even when it's uncalled for. Please forgive me. Not that I promise I won't be doing it again. Some habits are hard to break.

[seahorse]

seahorse I think everyone daydreams, but maybe Kyron wasn't daydreaming and had other issues, just don't know.

NoRose,

You are open minded.  Perhaps, CSI was the reason for staring in outer space. SM took Kyron to CSI on vacation,

(recommended to age 12 years and up) he was only six at the time.  I think Kyron was exposed to adult stuff

and not alway in the best interest of children. 

[Justamama]

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

[/quote]

The crying about not wanting to leave Desiree.  Staying in his room until being told he could leave.  The comments Terri made on Facebook about Kyron.  Those little things added up send up red flags for me. 
[/quote]

txlisa ... you redflags may have merit but ... on the other hand ... maybe not.

1.  Most children consider visitation with the non-costodial parent as a mini-vacation .  Hey ... up until Kyron's age ... following an overnighter at Mama and Papa's  ... my grandkids cried when they heard Mom and Dad's vehicle coming up the driveway.  Those four kids (7-12) still are aware where the bar of expectation is lowered.

2.  My girlfriend's 5 year old grandson ... plays quietly with his toys and reads in his room each morning until one of his parents makes an appearance.  His more aggressive 6 year old sister ... on the other hand ... is like an alarm clock.  If she is awake the household is awake.

3.  I never read Terri's facebook but ... the countless revealed photos imply Kyron was one fortunate kid who was surrounded by the love of a doting father and stepmother.

Janet 
[/quote]

This is an EXCELLENT post.  Not all crying and carrying on represents some sinister and evil symptom of abuse and neglect.  If anything this point is already being made on here right now.  Kids these days are running the show ESPECIALLY kids who are involved in divorces with sketchy custody issues.  They aren't dumb, they KNOW how to play that fiddle.

Kids are told in school, (ours anyway) that if a parent even so much as raises their voice this is VERBAL ABUSE.  I was there when they taught my son that. 

Lucky for me way back then I was not there when he raised his hand in the 2nd grade after a D.A.R.E presentation and announced to the ENTIRE school that I was ON DRUGS.  Because they didn't differentiate between illegal drugs and legal drugs and at the time I still smoked cigarettes.  (Been years free of the things thank you very much).

Lucky for me I wasn't there the morning he didn't have anything for show and tell so he stood up and told the entire class, "My mom passes gas and blames it on the cat!!!".


Yep.  Kids are funny.

[Justamama]

I didn't do that right...sorry.

[Gypsy DD]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

Tracy I certainly agree that children do need to learn accountability.  The best way to get more of a behavior is to compliment and reward that behavior..rather then punish the few off days.  I think that perhaps rather then look at things from a weekly stand point of Kyron has improved this week..she was like lets look at each and everyday....she then get lost in the detail and missed the whole point of the system the class was using.  This would infact undermine the whole purpose of the weekly updates to parents vs daily and undermine the whole system the teacher was trying to use..to both gain self esteem and improvement in her students.

And I imagine the teacher tried to explain that to Terri..because Desiree said in the recent article that Terri would email her complaining about the teacher, about Kyron about Kaine.  Terri didn't seem happy with the three of them.  Perhaps her answer was the disappearance of Kyron..hurting Kaine, hurting the teaching..and hurting Kyron. 

IDK.   

[seahorse]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I cannot speak for Kaine Horman.  You would have to ask him this question.

Okay, well I take it that his only agenda is getting his son back. 

Well I think it is fair to say that Kaines opinions right now are a little slanted. He is upset with Terri and blaming her for his son having gone missing. I am not saying he has this right or not, 

I too might be slightly suspicious of someone who tried to have me killed. Stranger abduction, or the psycho from home. Tough decision--not.

Scatty why do you attact my post? Is it because I am in the middle? Nothing upsets more people then someone on middle ground. It is only logical to think he would be slanted so then what he says be taken with that into consideration. Whether or not that is warrented has nothing to do with it and that is what I said

TG! I wasn't attacking your post. At least I didn't think so. I'm sooo sorry if you thought that. We just disagree sometimes and I understand; I just love adding my two cents, even when it's uncalled for. Please forgive me. Not that I promise I won't be doing it again. Some habits are hard to break.

[no rose colored glasses]

I just find it interesting that James said he only heard his mom and Kaine fight once in eight years, and the couple fought in private.  I have never heard of that before, good way of doing it though. Would love to know how often they fought in private.

no rose

Do you have a link/source where James remarked on Terri and Kaine's relationship.

Thanks

Janet

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html              For some reason I don't know how to copy and past two things at once  I wanted to do James' statements and the link to the article, sorry.

[Wyks]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

I agree, TG.  Which is why, by the time I got to the raising of my third son, I was ready for something different.  Something that actually worked well, in positive ways.  Enter the S.T.E.P. program.  (Systematic Training For Effective Parenting).  Started this with my then 3 yr old.  Gave him *choices*, which had consequences.  And the result?  Had a 3 yr old learning to make his own good choices, cuz he didn't like the consequences of the wrong choices!  My youngest now, at age of 25, has since age 3, been BY FAR the most responsible of all my three sons.  How I wish I had started this program with my oldest when he was 3 yrs old.  Sigh.  Hindsight and all.  This program is now my fav present to give a new parent at the birth of their lil darlings.

 

[txlisa]

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

The crying about not wanting to leave Desiree.  Staying in his room until being told he could leave.  The comments Terri made on Facebook about Kyron.  Those little things added up send up red flags for me. 
[/quote]

txlisa ... you redflags may have merit but ... on the other hand ... maybe not.

1.  Most children consider visitation with the non-costodial parent as a mini-vacation .  Hey ... up until Kyron's age ... following an overnighter at Mama and Papa's  ... my grandkids cried when they heard Mom and Dad's vehicle coming up the driveway.  Those four kids (7-12) still are aware where the bar of expectation is lowered.

2.  My girlfriend's 5 year old grandson ... plays quietly with his toys and reads in his room each morning until one of his parents makes an appearance.  His more aggressive 6 year old sister ... on the other hand ... is like an alarm clock.  If she is awake the household is awake.

3.  I never read Terri's facebook but ... the countless revealed photos imply Kyron was one fortunate kid who was surrounded by the love of a doting father and stepmother.

Janet 
[/quote]

This is an EXCELLENT post.  Not all crying and carrying on represents some sinister and evil symptom of abuse and neglect.  If anything this point is already being made on here right now.  Kids these days are running the show ESPECIALLY kids who are involved in divorces with sketchy custody issues.  They aren't dumb, they KNOW how to play that fiddle.

Kids are told in school, (ours anyway) that if a parent even so much as raises their voice this is VERBAL ABUSE.  I was there when they taught my son that. 

Lucky for me way back then I was not there when he raised his hand in the 2nd grade after a D.A.R.E presentation and announced to the ENTIRE school that I was ON DRUGS.  Because they didn't differentiate between illegal drugs and legal drugs and at the time I still smoked cigarettes.  (Been years free of the things thank you very much).

Lucky for me I wasn't there the morning he didn't have anything for show and tell so he stood up and told the entire class, "My mom passes gas and blames it on the cat!!!".


Yep.  Kids are funny.
[/quote]

Well, it did seem to send red flags up for Desiree (albeti after the fact.)

[Puzzler]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!  I have read comments about where are Kaine and Desiree and why aren't they talking.  Could it be because people are accusing them of trying to railroad Terri and control information about this case?  Damned if they do, damned if they don't!

I figured that the police probably told them not to talk right now.

I figured it's because LE doesn't have any information they want the parents to put out there.
Last was LE with their "photos" of their likely scenarios of where the truck was parked.  We've heard that there's lots of white trucks in the area.  "How" would anyone know if they just saw a truck (with no one in it) that it was Kaine's/Terri's truck?  You would have to be familiar with the year, make, models of the Horman's truck and the license plate number.  You would have to take the time to pay attention to those items and deduce that it was the Horman's truck.  If people just see a white truck in the area, around the questioned time, you can't just say that's the Horman's truck, unless you see someone you recognize in or around the truck.

IMO that's why LE had their last presser to specifically ask for people to come forward if they saw anyone in or around a white truck.  They didn't have that information.  They need to verify information that someone gave them.  That "need" indicates to me that the person who had said the saw someone was "not clear" on exactly what they saw.

[Tracygirl]

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

Never said there is not a positive reward if good behavior is present. Just said holding a child or person responsible for bad behavior is not a sign of abuse.

That's fine, but that's not what TH was doing. There were several color codes ranging from green to whatever. If Kyron got anything but a green, she wanted him disciplined. Every kid has bad days and non productive days. The color coding was probably to be used as a general measurement, not a daily measurement like Terri insisted on. That's just plain weird.

Seriously, not getting a green card everyday from the teacher is hardly a sign of bad behavior!   Especially in a second grader!  Again, I defer to Uncle Buck's speech on the matter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cUNA_0AOb8

A child that is 7 years old is old enough to be taught they are expected to act a certain way and not do certain things. You see it differntly, ok fine.

[no rose colored glasses]

I just find it interesting that James said he only heard his mom and Kaine fight once in eight years, and the couple fought in private.  I have never heard of that before, good way of doing it though. Would love to know how often they fought in private.

TRUE STORY...I did NOT know my parents fought until I was a senior in high school!!  They though I was outside when I had come in the back to get a coat.  I over heard them and I was in SHOCK.

They use to send us outside a lot.   I guess this was when they were 'discussing' things.

  I guess that I come from a family that had discussions in front of everyone.

[Tracygirl]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

A parent need to have a balance. The article never said there was not a balance, it said she wanted kyron to be punished, or held accountable for his loosing the green. I think it said he was to be put on a time out or loose something? That is not overboard in my opinion.

Ya but to constantly expect that on a daily basis is unreasonable.  They are kids FFS!  Not programmable robots!

What is FFS?

[txlisa]

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

Never said there is not a positive reward if good behavior is present. Just said holding a child or person responsible for bad behavior is not a sign of abuse.

That's fine, but that's not what TH was doing. There were several color codes ranging from green to whatever. If Kyron got anything but a green, she wanted him disciplined. Every kid has bad days and non productive days. The color coding was probably to be used as a general measurement, not a daily measurement like Terri insisted on. That's just plain weird.

Seriously, not getting a green card everyday from the teacher is hardly a sign of bad behavior!   Especially in a second grader!  Again, I defer to Uncle Buck's speech on the matter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cUNA_0AOb8

A child that is 7 years old is old enough to be taught they are expected to act a certain way and not do certain things. You see it differntly, ok fine.

I think that there are parents who expect way too much from a 7 year old.