Haleigh Cummings #5 3/08/09 - 3/11/09

[rana]

Does anyone know if they took the cadaver dogs into the trailer?  If Ron had come home and killed Haleigh accidently in a fit of rage, the dogs would have hit on it.  I just do not think this happened.

I dont know KTcat.. I thought the dogs could only smell decomp.. a newly dead person wouldnt give off decomp that soon .. would they? anyone know?

I agree, for instance if she were suffocated, there would be no evidence - and if they removed her immediately, their shouldn't be anything for a cadaver dog to pick up on that soon. Reminds me of LAci Peterson case, they belive she was either chocked or suffocated in her bed, then moved, now IIRC the blood hounds picked up her scent, but I don't recall the cadaver dogs picking it up at the home......amazing how quickly that went down with ZERO direct evidence.

Yes, I recall that as well, IM. It was all in the method and timing for Scott Peterson. (I mean as opposed to witnesses at the house, accomplices, injury to the perp during commission, etc like in some other cases.)

[minnie]

Also, haven't they said that several people saw Haleigh up to 5 or 6:00? I think they are mostly connected to Ron's side of the family but I think that there are: A/C repair guy, Misty's brother, 2 of Misty's nephews, gma and ggma (or maybe just ggma?)?

From what I understand, Ron was already gone for work when Haleigh was last seen. This leaves Misty the only known adult with the kids from 6-3 or so. In order for JR not to have seen something happen to Haleigh he would have had to be sleeping - in my opinion. So that leaves a window of 8:30 - 3 or so? That is not very much time to put together the perfect crime, in my opinion. A crime that means Haleigh was harmed, and her body disposed of with NO EVIDENCE. Plus, what motive would Misty have being a caretaker to Haleigh with all of the obvious loving family support? It just doesn't add up.

totally agree... and don't ya'll think the police and FBI know this too?

taking that all into consideration there are only so many possibilities remaining.

1. vaporization or de-materialization - nada. doesn't happen.

2. Misty has conned everyone and is even more diabolical than Casey Anthony. Jury is still out and I'm not leaning this way at all.

3. Unknown predator - most likely in my opinion.

+++

something has happened to Haleigh - but what?

The fact that the police and FBI have not said lock your doors, button down the hatches, close the chimney flue, and don't let the kids outta yer sight!! - does not mean that there is NOT a predator running around.

To avoid panic the police may not say those very things. At this point no one knows what happened to Haleigh other than Haleigh herself and the person responsible for whatever it is that has actually occurred.

 

yep, yep, yep. Except now you got me thinkin' about #1. lol

I guess I have a problem with motive when it comes to Ron & Misty. I just don't see it. If Ron's family thought there was any problem with Misty they would have turned on her by now. I don't see any motive? I don't see someone close to her harming her in her sleep. I don't see these folks having the resources to completely erase any and all evidence in a short amount of time. I might be more inclined to be suspicious if Ron was there but he wasn't.

I don't like some of their decisions about tattoos, engagement/marriage, etc. But who knows how we might all look for ways to ease our pain under these circumstances?

I am replying to the part of your post that I put in RED.  Well, it all depends.  Let's see now...there are donations coming in to HELP THIS FAMILY...I would think that would be for food and everyday necessities, and let's not forget there are two families involved here, which should it should be divided equally among both. 

There is a family man, that has not worked now for one month.  I am sure there are some payments to be met.  Unless there was a large amount of money saved, one would think that the donated money would be put to good use.

Have sympathy, yes, for sure.  But, when you have other's that are sharing their hard earned money to feed these people, I do FIND IT VERY HARD TO ACCEPT some of the money being spent, even if it was from a donor.

I agree especially in this economy.  But, some people want instant gratification and forget that at some point things will be back to normal and they will have to meet their own obligations.

[minnie]

Does anyone know if they took the cadaver dogs into the trailer?  If Ron had come home and killed Haleigh accidently in a fit of rage, the dogs would have hit on it.  I just do not think this happened.

I dont know KTcat.. I thought the dogs could only smell decomp.. a newly dead person wouldnt give off decomp that soon .. would they? anyone know?

Wasn't the beginning of the end for him when Amber came to light?

I agree, for instance if she were suffocated, there would be no evidence - and if they removed her immediately, their shouldn't be anything for a cadaver dog to pick up on that soon. Reminds me of LAci Peterson case, they belive she was either chocked or suffocated in her bed, then moved, now IIRC the blood hounds picked up her scent, but I don't recall the cadaver dogs picking it up at the home......amazing how quickly that went down with ZERO direct evidence.

Yes, I recall that as well, IM. It was all in the method and timing for Scott Peterson. (I mean as opposed to witnesses at the house, accomplices, injury to the perp during commission, etc like in some other cases.)

[rana]

Just going to post this pic that another poster had awhile back.

Thanks for the bus stop and retention pond shots, GramaMonkey. 

I didn't know there was a retention pond; or if I did, I had forgotten. Good catch. I guess they've serached that? I don't recall...... Anyone?

I don't recall which poster posted it.  I know there were some other address tossed around.  mmm.....like 217 Baker St.  not sure if it was 146 or 186 Tyler St., think that is where the SIL lived.....but I think the other was a S/O.
  Now just the other day hmmm Sat. nite, there was a couple of posters, were you one of them, that had came up with a S/O...was that the 217 Baker St...and they were going to call this tip in.  As it was not in the 5 mi. radius.

Yes, GrandmaMOnkey, my hub called it in, as did Jersey Girl (I beleive it was her) and Luckyday.  We three got crossed up in our posting times and all three ended up calling it in b/c we didn't know the other two had done so as well. Better safe that sorry.

I think you're referring to the conclusion we reached together the other night that started with the dream girl who mentioned Madison...etc... and the field... and then an RSO... etc? If that's the one, then yes it was called in (3 times- heh)

[minnie]

Does anyone know if they took the cadaver dogs into the trailer?  If Ron had come home and killed Haleigh accidently in a fit of rage, the dogs would have hit on it.  I just do not think this happened.

I dont know KTcat.. I thought the dogs could only smell decomp.. a newly dead person wouldnt give off decomp that soon .. would they? anyone know?

I agree, for instance if she were suffocated, there would be no evidence - and if they removed her immediately, their shouldn't be anything for a cadaver dog to pick up on that soon. Reminds me of LAci Peterson case, they belive she was either chocked or suffocated in her bed, then moved, now IIRC the blood hounds picked up her scent, but I don't recall the cadaver dogs picking it up at the home......amazing how quickly that went down with ZERO direct evidence.

Yes, I recall that as well, IM. It was all in the method and timing for Scott Peterson. (I mean as opposed to witnesses at the house, accomplices, injury to the perp during commission, etc like in some other cases.)

Well that was weird.  Didn't mean to post in the middle of the quote.  Anyway I think Amber was the beginning of the end for Mr. Peterson.

[no rose colored glasses]

Also, haven't they said that several people saw Haleigh up to 5 or 6:00? I think they are mostly connected to Ron's side of the family but I think that there are: A/C repair guy, Misty's brother, 2 of Misty's nephews, gma and ggma (or maybe just ggma?)?

From what I understand, Ron was already gone for work when Haleigh was last seen. This leaves Misty the only known adult with the kids from 6-3 or so. In order for JR not to have seen something happen to Haleigh he would have had to be sleeping - in my opinion. So that leaves a window of 8:30 - 3 or so? That is not very much time to put together the perfect crime, in my opinion. A crime that means Haleigh was harmed, and her body disposed of with NO EVIDENCE. Plus, what motive would Misty have being a caretaker to Haleigh with all of the obvious loving family support? It just doesn't add up.

totally agree... and don't ya'll think the police and FBI know this too?

taking that all into consideration there are only so many possibilities remaining.

1. vaporization or de-materialization - nada. doesn't happen.

2. Misty has conned everyone and is even more diabolical than Casey Anthony. Jury is still out and I'm not leaning this way at all.

3. Unknown predator - most likely in my opinion.

+++

something has happened to Haleigh - but what?

The fact that the police and FBI have not said lock your doors, button down the hatches, close the chimney flue, and don't let the kids outta yer sight!! - does not mean that there is NOT a predator running around.

To avoid panic the police may not say those very things. At this point no one knows what happened to Haleigh other than Haleigh herself and the person responsible for whatever it is that has actually occurred.

 

yep, yep, yep. Except now you got me thinkin' about #1. lol

I guess I have a problem with motive when it comes to Ron & Misty. I just don't see it. If Ron's family thought there was any problem with Misty they would have turned on her by now. I don't see any motive? I don't see someone close to her harming her in her sleep. I don't see these folks having the resources to completely erase any and all evidence in a short amount of time. I might be more inclined to be suspicious if Ron was there but he wasn't.

I don't like some of their decisions about tattoos, engagement/marriage, etc. But who knows how we might all look for ways to ease our pain under these circumstances?

I am replying to the part of your post that I put in RED.  Well, it all depends.  Let's see now...there are donations coming in to HELP THIS FAMILY...I would think that would be for food and everyday necessities, and let's not forget there are two families involved here, which should it should be divided equally among both. 

There is a family man, that has not worked now for one month.  I am sure there are some payments to be met.  Unless there was a large amount of money saved, one would think that the donated money would be put to good use.

Have sympathy, yes, for sure.  But, when you have other's that are sharing their hard earned money to feed these people, I do FIND IT VERY HARD TO ACCEPT some of the money being spent, even if it was from a donor.

Yes, I would think that if you are making donations, you would expect it to go for important things like food, clothing, rent. Most people are happy to help others, but would probably like their money going for decent things, not things that are not necessary.

[GramaMonkey]

Yepperz, my dear, that is the one that I remembered.

[Kat_Gram]

FL has the right to a speedy trial thing. As no one has been arrested and charged the Sunshine Laws do not yet apply to the release of any statements or reports that LE has.

In the Anthony case, there was some defense lawyers on NG saying that an error was made when they arrested her so soon. ( July 16, one day after Cindy made the call ) She retained legal counsel right after that and that was the end of her talking. I really don't know if it would have made a difference, all they were getting from her was lies. But it might have been entertaining to me to see her just paint herself into a corner more with Yuri and Mellich. Maybe they thought she would be more forthcoming after she was in a cell and saw how serious this was, instead of a whim. Casey has a different make up than most folks. She must have the ability to wrap it all up somewhere in her brain in a little room that never has the door opened, because it doesn't interfere with her functioning on a day to day basis. Same as Scott Peterson. Laci was missing and, well life went on. Amber Frey derailed him. On of the lawyers on NG, said she had been in contact with Amber who was doing well and was running a spa. 
Getting back to this one, they had Scott's vehicle GPS'd and they had him in their sights without telling us about it.
When one thinks of John Coeuy, Joseph Duncan and Scott Peterson anything is possible. t   

[minnie]

What about Drew Peterson?  He still hasn't been arrested.  What a jerk.

[rana]

"That is true.  I was primarily thinking of the theory someone posted about Ron coming home in a rage and taking it out on Haleigh.  I think that would be kind of hard to hide."
That was me. I am sure LE has most of these ppl in their sights and are considering all possibilites. They have the evidence or lack of it and I am sure that they can do their job.
We will have to just sit and wait I guess.
I think one of the reasons for so much speculation is that LE has been so tight lipped.
I have been surprised in the past and if this is ever solved, we might all be taken aback.
Where did I read or hear that LE was moving from a search to an investigation.
I hope they go over every bit of info from the moment the first call was made.
There have been cases here defined as " cold cases" which are never solved or where the evidence is so slim arrests have never been made. It happens and I am not going to do the opinion thing any more as I get into too much trouble and then I get angry at myself.
Children can and have been taken from their beds at night by strangers. It is a frightening thought, isn't it ?   
 
TY for the info on this RSO and the fact that is was discussed. I was getting ready to email AMW.

The sickening thing to me is that this child is gone.  The dogs can hit on a body in the water, and in the ground and this hasn't happened.  This makes me think she is not anywhere around there. 
 

I hear you on that, Minnie. It is sickening.

I can't help but think of Caylee, bless her dear little heart. They had searched and searched for months; IIRC, there was searching when the area was under water; There was searching when the area was not under water. (per Kronk the meter reader and the Deputy who came in response to the 911 Kronk call/s) And she was right there down the road. (I don't know if they've determined that she was there the whole time.) So sad. I burst into tears every time Nancy grace plays, "Gone Too Soon."

**sigh**

[minnie]

"That is true.  I was primarily thinking of the theory someone posted about Ron coming home in a rage and taking it out on Haleigh.  I think that would be kind of hard to hide."
That was me. I am sure LE has most of these ppl in their sights and are considering all possibilites. They have the evidence or lack of it and I am sure that they can do their job.
We will have to just sit and wait I guess.
I think one of the reasons for so much speculation is that LE has been so tight lipped.
I have been surprised in the past and if this is ever solved, we might all be taken aback.
Where did I read or hear that LE was moving from a search to an investigation.
I hope they go over every bit of info from the moment the first call was made.
There have been cases here defined as " cold cases" which are never solved or where the evidence is so slim arrests have never been made. It happens and I am not going to do the opinion thing any more as I get into too much trouble and then I get angry at myself.
Children can and have been taken from their beds at night by strangers. It is a frightening thought, isn't it ?   
 
TY for the info on this RSO and the fact that is was discussed. I was getting ready to email AMW.

The sickening thing to me is that this child is gone.  The dogs can hit on a body in the water, and in the ground and this hasn't happened.  This makes me think she is not anywhere around there. 
 

I hear you on that, Minnie. It is sickening.

I can't help but think of Caylee, bless her dear little heart. They had searched and searched for months; IIRC, there was searching when the area was under water; There was searching when the area was not under water. (per Kronk the meter reader and the Deputy who came in response to the 911 Kronk call/s) And she was right there down the road. (I don't know if they've determined that she was there the whole time.) So sad. I burst into tears every time Nancy grace plays, "Gone Too Soon."

**sigh**

I do too.  Tears right now.  Such a beautiful child.  And when I hear NG say the last thing she saw was her mother.  OMG I just die.

And another thing I don't care how much I love my sons if I thought they did something to one of my grandchildren I would never claim them as my child again.

[islandmonkey]

HLN on now about Haliegh case........going to the beach, BBL

[Kat_Gram]

I had just finished a book about Scott Peterson.
There was no decomp smell in the house. Bloodhounds picked up Laci's scent at the warehouse. Might have been from the tarp.
What alerted the detectives on that one was Scott's demeanor and his little inconsistencies.
Little lies did him in. An example, he told the detectives when they first went to the warehouse that there was no power and they used flashlights to look around. Meanwhile, he mentioned going to the warehouse Christmas Eve day and sending a fax to his employer. That set off a red flag as they said, what doesn't he want us to see ? And they looked and found the cement anchor making stuff. Even though right at the beginning, he had the good houskeeping seal of approval from Laci's family. They were seasoned detectives and they sniffed him out pretty quick. There was nothing substantial to go on at the beginning.

[islandmonkey]

I had just finished a book about Scott Peterson.
There was no decomp smell in the house. Bloodhounds picked up Laci's scent at the warehouse. Might have been from the tarp.
What alerted the detectives on that one was Scott's demeanor and his little inconsistencies.
Little lies did him in. An example, he told the detectives when they first went to the warehouse that there was no power and they used flashlights to look around. Meanwhile, he mentioned going to the warehouse Christmas Eve day and sending a fax to his employer. That set off a red flag as they said, what doesn't he want us to see ? And they looked and found the cement anchor making stuff. Even though right at the beginning, he had the good houskeeping seal of approval from Laci's family. They were seasoned detectives and they sniffed him out pretty quick. There was nothing substantial to go on at the beginning.

Yep~I remember, he looked guilty on day one to me just by his demeanor, and it's those little lies and inconsistencies that will get you every time when investigated thoroughly.

[rana]

Does anyone know if they took the cadaver dogs into the trailer?  If Ron had come home and killed Haleigh accidently in a fit of rage, the dogs would have hit on it.  I just do not think this happened.

I dont know KTcat.. I thought the dogs could only smell decomp.. a newly dead person wouldnt give off decomp that soon .. would they? anyone know?

I agree, for instance if she were suffocated, there would be no evidence - and if they removed her immediately, their shouldn't be anything for a cadaver dog to pick up on that soon. Reminds me of LAci Peterson case, they belive she was either chocked or suffocated in her bed, then moved, now IIRC the blood hounds picked up her scent, but I don't recall the cadaver dogs picking it up at the home......amazing how quickly that went down with ZERO direct evidence.

Yes, I recall that as well, IM. It was all in the method and timing for Scott Peterson. (I mean as opposed to witnesses at the house, accomplices, injury to the perp during commission, etc like in some other cases.)

Well that was weird.  Didn't mean to post in the middle of the quote.  Anyway I think Amber was the beginning of the end for Mr. Peterson.

Excellent point, Minnie. The girlfriend, Amber's, testimony was damaging for Scott Peterson IIRC. Maybe he should have married her; (But she wouldnt have him.) On the other hand, I don't know if Cali has any exception laws to spousal privilege like Florida. Law is not my thing.... I mean domain... whatever.

 

[Kat_Gram]

Gee, I am a blabbermouth today. I must go as I wasn't at work today and I have done nothing around here.  How does this happen ?
Probably come back later. With No Opinions. lol
   

[rana]

I had just finished a book about Scott Peterson.
There was no decomp smell in the house. Bloodhounds picked up Laci's scent at the warehouse. Might have been from the tarp.
What alerted the detectives on that one was Scott's demeanor and his little inconsistencies.
Little lies did him in. An example, he told the detectives when they first went to the warehouse that there was no power and they used flashlights to look around. Meanwhile, he mentioned going to the warehouse Christmas Eve day and sending a fax to his employer. That set off a red flag as they said, what doesn't he want us to see ? And they looked and found the cement anchor making stuff. Even though right at the beginning, he had the good houskeeping seal of approval from Laci's family. They were seasoned detectives and they sniffed him out pretty quick. There was nothing substantial to go on at the beginning.

Yep~I remember, he looked guilty on day one to me just by his demeanor, and it's those little lies and inconsistencies that will get you every time when investigated thoroughly.

Yes, IM it's all about the little things sometimes, isn't it? Taken individually they may not amount to much; But put them together, and clues can emerge that lead to evidence in some instances.

[minnie]

I had just finished a book about Scott Peterson.
There was no decomp smell in the house. Bloodhounds picked up Laci's scent at the warehouse. Might have been from the tarp.
What alerted the detectives on that one was Scott's demeanor and his little inconsistencies.
Little lies did him in. An example, he told the detectives when they first went to the warehouse that there was no power and they used flashlights to look around. Meanwhile, he mentioned going to the warehouse Christmas Eve day and sending a fax to his employer. That set off a red flag as they said, what doesn't he want us to see ? And they looked and found the cement anchor making stuff. Even though right at the beginning, he had the good houskeeping seal of approval from Laci's family. They were seasoned detectives and they sniffed him out pretty quick. There was nothing substantial to go on at the beginning.

Yep~I remember, he looked guilty on day one to me just by his demeanor, and it's those little lies and inconsistencies that will get you every time when investigated thoroughly.

Yes, IM it's all about the little things sometimes, isn't it? Taken individually they may not amount to much; But put them together, and clues can emerge that lead to evidence in some instances.

Sorry, but IMO Scott was a cocky SOB.  And from some posts I have read we all have known one or two in our time.  YUK!!!  Thank goodness that part of my life is over. 

[TxLady2]

Again with respect, how do we know she did not lie? I feel the drowning incident was not true,or embellished at least,because as a mother,had my child drowned,there would be a full force of paramedics on scene,yet none were called? no records of this drowning Crystal claims happened? How do we know she did not lie? How do we know RC did?
(snipped to keep post from building up)
 
 searching, I dont know who did or did not lie about exactly what happened, but I did hear even Rons mother talk about this incident, so it did happen, just dont know who told the right story about what led up to it!!

She didn't drown, she could have if Crystal had not found her in time. Maybe she had only been in the water for a minute or so, thus she would not have needed paramedics. It might have only taken a couple of breaths to get her to cough up any water she took in, she saw she was okay, no need to call 911. My stepdaughter went in over her head in our pond when she was about 6, and her dad swam to her and grabbed her out, she was choking and coughing, but a few more minutes, she might have drowned. We never called 911.... no need to. I believe Crystal, because I know that some people just don't feel the need to call emergency personnel if it is obvious that the situation was averted, and no longer life-threatening. She got Haleigh breathing again, obviously, so why call 911 after the fact?!

[littleone]

I think it could be due to the fact that I believe she is a domestic abuse victim. maybe she really exagerrated the CPR end of it (that I don't know), but I'm sure if she'd called 911 while they were at mamma neves house, and accused Ron of not watching her, she would have had hell to pay. He looks like the classic abuser to me, and she looks like a classic victim, .............

I did not know abusers had a look. I have seen where Doctors turned out to be abusers, no one ever would have suspected them as such. I was an abuse victim,but I do not see an abuser behind every male face in the midst of an event such as this. I see RC as a florida back woods boy raised up rough and acts tough because he feels he has to. I agree his mouth makes him less desirable.. his calling misty the B word during the 911 call, BUT I can not say I would NOT be reaming someone that was suppose to be watching my children and this happen...I just can not believe his words of terror of finding his daughter missing and peoples perception from those words and Crystals sudden turn of face on him is what people are basing pointing the finger at him...   I think it is time for me to step back for a bit.   

Searching..
I'm sorry that you were abused...but I have to believe that you are a survivor!! I really just wanted to say that I enjoy reading your posts and that I view Ron the same way you do.  I don't agree with lots of things that he has done..I don't have to!! That being said-I really don't think he has harmed Haleigh. jmo