Natalee Case Discussion #807 3/12/09 - 3/17/09am

[klaasend]

Part of ldstlou's post at GM.  My thoughts in red:

Kyle told me that if there had been evidence in the cage that was related to Natalee, then Dateline would not have been able to show the footage because it would have been evidence in an ongoing investigation. When the divers came up after the Dec 30th dive with the thumbs down sign, there was an agent from Quantico on the boat. Someone from Dateline had asked the agent if there was any evidence related to Natalee and the Quantico agent then told him no which gave Dateline legally, the right to use the footage in their show. So it was the Quantico agent who said there was no evidence in the cage related to Natalee. If there had been evidence related to Natalee's case, Dateline would NOT have been able to show it. (Really?? the Quantico agent could tell right away WITHOUT TESTING that nothing in the cage pertained to Natalee or Joran?  BS, pure BS and you can't possibly believe this))

Next Kyle told me, that indeed Schaefer had planned on doing a documentary on the search. When they found out that Dateline was going to air the footage before they had a chance to sell their documentary, they contacted the FBI to try and get it stopped. I believe that the FBI then called Dateline and said they could not show all of the footage of the dive. This is my understanding of what happened after talking to Kyle. ((Again, I call BS.  Dateline was part of the search from the very beginning starting with shots taken at the dock in LA.  You trying to tell me that Dateline pulled a fast one on all of them?))

I just am not one who believes in a conspiracy theory or any wrong doing in Schaefer wanting to do a documentary of the search for Natalee. They were usurped by Dateline who originally was doing a show on Tim and TES, but who changed the theme of their show to the Persistence and the search before they had a buyer for their own documentary. I also don't believe Schaefer would have made a "lot of money" on the documentary, I believe he was trying to recoup some of the money he had put into the search.

Logic dictates, that IF they had found Natalee in the cage, THEN they certainly would have made a lot of money selling the footage. What is the point in hiding the fact that they found Natalee...there is none!!!  ((There is no logic dictating what you post, only emotion))

I'll likely have more to say after I wake up 

[2NJSons_Mom]

San,

Thanks for posting the transcript from Hannity.  The bolded comments by Hannity & Guilfoyle about traveling the US is something I've stated to some in the group we travel with.  Some have been receptive but others not.  The reasoning for some has to do with lifestyle and status.  Not all of us have second homes and timeshares in various places here.  To those that have, they think why go here or there in the states....I can do that anytime.  They seem to want to travel to some tropical island, instead, because it's out of their norm.  Our recent Cancun trip was not a highlight in our life except for our friends' company, and we are a little sad that we dropped our pesos there.  C'est la vie.

[Buckeye]

Since when has the US blocked any media from showing footage from an ongoing investigation?  They may, at times, block access to a site, but once there is film, etc...there is no censorship.

[Tamikosmom]

I found this picture of Natalee and Brooke.  Sorry I don't have a link, pretty sure I found it at an ABC website

My prayers are with Brooke, and the Holloway family.  I hope she will fully recover from her injury.

Thank you so much for posting that picture, texasmom.  You always get it just right!
My prayers are going out to Brook and all of the Holloways tonight, with earnest pleadings for peace and comfort for Dave.  My heart breaks for him this evening.

I read at the BFN backup site that she is on the mend at home and will fully recover.  I'm a stickler for details and this article bugs me.  Wouldn't she be Natalee's 1/2 sister since she has the same father?  Halfsister not stepsister.

I agree.

I believe a stepsister would be your stepmother or stepfather's child from another marriage ... not a blood relation.

Janet

[Blue Moon]

Part of ldstlou's post at GM.  My thoughts in red:

Kyle told me that if there had been evidence in the cage that was related to Natalee, then Dateline would not have been able to show the footage because it would have been evidence in an ongoing investigation. When the divers came up after the Dec 30th dive with the thumbs down sign, there was an agent from Quantico on the boat. Someone from Dateline had asked the agent if there was any evidence related to Natalee and the Quantico agent then told him no which gave Dateline legally, the right to use the footage in their show. So it was the Quantico agent who said there was no evidence in the cage related to Natalee. If there had been evidence related to Natalee's case, Dateline would NOT have been able to show it. (Really?? the Quantico agent could tell right away WITHOUT TESTING that nothing in the cage pertained to Natalee or Joran?  BS, pure BS and you can't possibly believe this))

Next Kyle told me, that indeed Schaefer had planned on doing a documentary on the search. When they found out that Dateline was going to air the footage before they had a chance to sell their documentary, they contacted the FBI to try and get it stopped. I believe that the FBI then called Dateline and said they could not show all of the footage of the dive. This is my understanding of what happened after talking to Kyle. ((Again, I call BS.  Dateline was part of the search from the very beginning starting with shots taken at the dock in LA.  You trying to tell me that Dateline pulled a fast one on all of them?))

I just am not one who believes in a conspiracy theory or any wrong doing in Schaefer wanting to do a documentary of the search for Natalee. They were usurped by Dateline who originally was doing a show on Tim and TES, but who changed the theme of their show to the Persistence and the search before they had a buyer for their own documentary. I also don't believe Schaefer would have made a "lot of money" on the documentary, I believe he was trying to recoup some of the money he had put into the search.

Logic dictates, that IF they had found Natalee in the cage, THEN they certainly would have made a lot of money selling the footage. What is the point in hiding the fact that they found Natalee...there is none!!!  ((There is no logic dictating what you post, only emotion))

I'll likely have more to say after I wake up 

I call BS also.  HOW can anyone tell it is not related to Natalee without proper recovery/testing?  Lou should have know that.  You are VERY VERY gullible if you buy into that notion.  Kyle needs to MAN-UP and come out of hiding and speak for himself.  They still do not get it-------------Whatever was in that cage is now gone because they let ALE swoosh in and retrieve every inch of it.  This whole argument is mute, the point IS we will NEVER know what was in that cage because of the actions of the people on that ship who DID NOT listen to people who were telling them NOT to let Aruba take control of anything.  There were ways to have accomplished this but NO, Schafer had to call them in immediately.  Also, they had Eduardo onboard that ship who probably reported everything back to ALE and Jossy and word got out.  Disgusting.

[wingnut]

PERSONAL to LSD in StLou:

What part of it don't you get?  (Rhetorical)

The Freebirds were quite content to stay anonymous.  It was because YOU and your cronies started calling Kermit a liar that me and Jen outed ourselves.  I had been, and would have remained, perfectly content to be hidden away from posters like you.  That was the reason that I left "public" forums in the first place. 

YOU were not there to witness Kyle's participation.  YOU have no knowledge of what was said and when.  YET you post as though you have knowledge, when in fact you are IGNORANT of the facts.  If Kyle disagrees with what has been stated here, he needs to speak for himself and stop hiding behind your skirts.  He doesn't because he knows it is all true.  HE was there.  He knows what was said, and the context in which it was said. 

As far as I'm concerned, you are a bitter troublemaker, and you are dismissed. 

[Keepthefaith]

PERSONAL to LSD in StLou:

What part of it don't you get?  (Rhetorical)

The Freebirds were quite content to stay anonymous.  It was because YOU and your cronies started calling Kermit a liar that me and Jen outed ourselves.  I had been, and would have remained, perfectly content to be hidden away from posters like you.  That was the reason that I left "public" forums in the first place. 

YOU were not there to witness Kyle's participation.  YOU have no knowledge of what was said and when.  YET you post as though you have knowledge, when in fact you are IGNORANT of the facts.  If Kyle disagrees with what has been stated here, he needs to speak for himself and stop hiding behind your skirts.  He doesn't because he knows it is all true.  HE was there.  He knows what was said, and the context in which it was said. 

As far as I'm concerned, you are a bitter troublemaker, and you are dismissed. 

And,there you have it folks!

[Blue Moon]

PERSONAL to LSD in StLou:

What part of it don't you get?  (Rhetorical)

The Freebirds were quite content to stay anonymous.  It was because YOU and your cronies started calling Kermit a liar that me and Jen outed ourselves.  I had been, and would have remained, perfectly content to be hidden away from posters like you.  That was the reason that I left "public" forums in the first place. 

YOU were not there to witness Kyle's participation.  YOU have no knowledge of what was said and when.  YET you post as though you have knowledge, when in fact you are IGNORANT of the facts.  If Kyle disagrees with what has been stated here, he needs to speak for himself and stop hiding behind your skirts.  He doesn't because he knows it is all true.  HE was there.  He knows what was said, and the context in which it was said. 

As far as I'm concerned, you are a bitter troublemaker, and you are dismissed. 

Wingnut, did Kyle tell you all that there was an agent from Quantico onboard that ship?  Did he ever tell  you all anything along these lines? 

Tim was a liability--looks like a skull; still looks like a skull.  Dateline--became a big liability when they had that footage.  Persistence was NOT ready to find Natalee because that is NOT what they went for.  They had bigger better business there and finding that cage so early was not the agenda they had in mind.

[Tamikosmom]

PERSONAL to LSD in StLou:

What part of it don't you get?  (Rhetorical)

The Freebirds were quite content to stay anonymous.  It was because YOU and your cronies started calling Kermit a liar that me and Jen outed ourselves.  I had been, and would have remained, perfectly content to be hidden away from posters like you.  That was the reason that I left "public" forums in the first place. 

YOU were not there to witness Kyle's participation.  YOU have no knowledge of what was said and when.  YET you post as though you have knowledge, when in fact you are IGNORANT of the facts.  If Kyle disagrees with what has been stated here, he needs to speak for himself and stop hiding behind your skirts.  He doesn't because he knows it is all true.  HE was there.  He knows what was said, and the context in which it was said. 

As far as I'm concerned, you are a bitter troublemaker, and you are dismissed. 

Thanks wingnut.

GM posters on the CAGE thread refer to Kermit's conspiracy theory ... SM's conspiracy theory.  There is no theory ... Kyle Kingman's words ... regarding the John Silvetti betrayal of the family as well as those who prayfully and monetarily support the cause of bring Natalee home ... stand alone.

GOOD MORNING ALL!!

Janet
8:40 AM PT

+++++++

THE PERSISTENCE - THE TRAP (DOCUMENT)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4641.0

[Tamikosmom]

PERSONAL to LSD in StLou:

What part of it don't you get?  (Rhetorical)

The Freebirds were quite content to stay anonymous.  It was because YOU and your cronies started calling Kermit a liar that me and Jen outed ourselves.  I had been, and would have remained, perfectly content to be hidden away from posters like you.  That was the reason that I left "public" forums in the first place. 

YOU were not there to witness Kyle's participation.  YOU have no knowledge of what was said and when.  YET you post as though you have knowledge, when in fact you are IGNORANT of the facts.  If Kyle disagrees with what has been stated here, he needs to speak for himself and stop hiding behind your skirts.  He doesn't because he knows it is all true.  HE was there.  He knows what was said, and the context in which it was said. 

As far as I'm concerned, you are a bitter troublemaker, and you are dismissed. 

Wingnut, did Kyle tell you all that there was an agent from Quantico onboard that ship?  Did he ever tell  you all anything along these lines? 

Tim was a liability--looks like a skull; still looks like a skull.  Dateline--became a big liability when they had that footage.  Persistence was NOT ready to find Natalee because that is NOT what they went for.  They had bigger better business there and finding that cage so early was not the agenda they had in mind.

Good Morning Blue Moon

Wingnut appears to have left the room.

Kyle Kingman did shed some light on this issue.  However ... my contention is that the Aruban invitation to the FBI should have been secured in the planning stages of this huge undertaking.  Without that invitation the outcome of Persistence endeavor was a foregone conclusion.
 
Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:   The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

[texasmom]

I found this picture of Natalee and Brooke.  Sorry I don't have a link, pretty sure I found it at an ABC website

My prayers are with Brooke, and the Holloway family.  I hope she will fully recover from her injury.

Thank you so much for posting that picture, texasmom.  You always get it just right!
My prayers are going out to Brook and all of the Holloways tonight, with earnest pleadings for peace and comfort for Dave.  My heart breaks for him this evening.

I read at the BFN backup site that she is on the mend at home and will fully recover.  I'm a stickler for details and this article bugs me.  Wouldn't she be Natalee's 1/2 sister since she has the same father?  Halfsister not stepsister.

Good morning Monkeys!

I noticed it too Klaas.  I started to crop it and post just the picture, and if I could have found a link to where I got it from I would have.  I left it as is since it did have ABC news, and that it was a family photo on the rest of it.  I probably should have spent more time looking for the link, and posted just the picture.   

[Tamikosmom]

Private Eye and I are one in regards to the crew of the Persistence  joining forces with the enemy who has prevented justice from prevailing since the getgo while expecting a positive outcome.  Logic dictates ... it is not going to happen.

Janet

++++++

PRIVATE EYE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756

don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

[2NJSons_Mom]

Going back to discussion yesterday about film crews & Texasmom's posting of the Dutch video, it's airing 2/12/08.

Anna pointed out Silvetti making a statement in that clip of defending their purpose and poopoo'ing the oil connection spoken about on 'hate sites'.  When I watched it again, it made me think about why he felt he had to defend.  It so happened that I was browsing through posts at RU earlier in the week.  I believe it may have been a thread started by Glenda.  They were talking about Schaefer's failed company & oil pursuits early 2008.  Since I seldom go there, it was the first I noticed or knew of it.

I do not mean to disturb the current discussion, but was thinking about that email. Jug, oil, Silvetti aware of talk at that juncture.  Makes me go hmmmmm.   

 

[Lifesong]

Part of ldstlou's post at GM.  My thoughts in red:

Kyle told me that if there had been evidence in the cage that was related to Natalee, then Dateline would not have been able to show the footage because it would have been evidence in an ongoing investigation. When the divers came up after the Dec 30th dive with the thumbs down sign, there was an agent from Quantico on the boat. Someone from Dateline had asked the agent if there was any evidence related to Natalee and the Quantico agent then told him no which gave Dateline legally, the right to use the footage in their show. So it was the Quantico agent who said there was no evidence in the cage related to Natalee. If there had been evidence related to Natalee's case, Dateline would NOT have been able to show it. (Really?? the Quantico agent could tell right away WITHOUT TESTING that nothing in the cage pertained to Natalee or Joran?  BS, pure BS and you can't possibly believe this))

Next Kyle told me, that indeed Schaefer had planned on doing a documentary on the search. When they found out that Dateline was going to air the footage before they had a chance to sell their documentary, they contacted the FBI to try and get it stopped. I believe that the FBI then called Dateline and said they could not show all of the footage of the dive. This is my understanding of what happened after talking to Kyle. ((Again, I call BS.  Dateline was part of the search from the very beginning starting with shots taken at the dock in LA.  You trying to tell me that Dateline pulled a fast one on all of them?))

I just am not one who believes in a conspiracy theory or any wrong doing in Schaefer wanting to do a documentary of the search for Natalee. They were usurped by Dateline who originally was doing a show on Tim and TES, but who changed the theme of their show to the Persistence and the search before they had a buyer for their own documentary. I also don't believe Schaefer would have made a "lot of money" on the documentary, I believe he was trying to recoup some of the money he had put into the search.

Logic dictates, that IF they had found Natalee in the cage, THEN they certainly would have made a lot of money selling the footage. What is the point in hiding the fact that they found Natalee...there is none!!!  ((There is no logic dictating what you post, only emotion))

I'll likely have more to say after I wake up 

I only made it to the second sentence.

Kyle Kingman:  "I have not given anything to the FBI since the pictures and statements from Dec 29th.

[texasmom]

I found this picture of Natalee and Brooke.  Sorry I don't have a link, pretty sure I found it at an ABC website

My prayers are with Brooke, and the Holloway family.  I hope she will fully recover from her injury.

Found the link!

http://a.abcnews.com/GMA/popup?id=1818635&contentIndex=1&page=5&start=false

[Lifesong]

I can't answer the Kaplan project question at the moment.  Am catching up reading and wanted to note that Terry was appointed 1/27/08. 

http://www.globenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=136169

-snipped-

As previously announced, the Board appointed E. Donald Terry as the Company's Interim President and Chief Executive Officer effective January 27, 2008.

Thank you, 2NJ.  All corrections are welcome (and much needed!!), please keep them coming!

I've fixed the year in the originating document, so it will be corrected in the next revision.

01/28/08
Superior Offshore International Announces Appointment of E. Donald Terry as Interim President and Chief Executive Officer:  “…Mr. Terry's appointment followed James J. Mermis' resignation as President, Chief Executive Officer and a director of the Company. Mr. Mermis plans to join Kaplan Industry as its President of Technical Operations…”

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-28-2008/0004743641&EDATE

[Tamikosmom]

UPDATE

Out of the four emails that my daughter sent to former co-workers from her time on the mission field in Thailand ... only one was in a position to maybe get a recording of the Kurtis Production that aired yesterday in Asia.

All four co-workers are still affiliated with the Thai ministry but were temporarily out of the country.

Two were in Cambodia and ... their accomodations had did not provide television access.  Videos are where it is at for them.

One was home in the States on Furlough.

However ... one was in Hong Kong and ... she was going to request a friend to record the documentary.

No word yet.

Janet

[johan555]

Joran's nightclub in Bangkok

[Lifesong]

Jim Mermis Interview

It might be helpful....I have company and have not gotten to read it yet....



http://webmail.aol.com/41757/aol/en-us/mail/get-attachment.aspx?uid=1.23608646&folder=NewMail&partId=6&saveAs=MarEx-19-SOI-Int.pdf

Thank you, Hotping!

I don't do aol - and by that I mean I won't do aol.  Is there a kind monkey out there who will bring this over?

[sharon]

PERSONAL to LSD in StLou:

What part of it don't you get?  (Rhetorical)

The Freebirds were quite content to stay anonymous.  It was because YOU and your cronies started calling Kermit a liar that me and Jen outed ourselves.  I had been, and would have remained, perfectly content to be hidden away from posters like you.  That was the reason that I left "public" forums in the first place. 

YOU were not there to witness Kyle's participation.  YOU have no knowledge of what was said and when.  YET you post as though you have knowledge, when in fact you are IGNORANT of the facts.  If Kyle disagrees with what has been stated here, he needs to speak for himself and stop hiding behind your skirts.  He doesn't because he knows it is all true.  HE was there.  He knows what was said, and the context in which it was said. 

As far as I'm concerned, you are a bitter troublemaker, and you are dismissed. 

Hugs and hallelujah 

This is an old favorite post of mine from SM. It applied to the original Dark Side -- but I think some words and names could be modified and it could be resurrected for the New Dark Side.


izzy Says:
April 13th, 2006 at 6:06 pm

(snipped)

I’ve noted the following motivations behind some of the vitriol posted on the hate sites:

1) Class envy (all those comments about Mountain Brook)

2) Regional bias (i.e. anti-Southerner)

3) National pride (defending “attacks” on Aruba & the Netherlands)

4) Basic female cattiness/jealousy (refusing to believe Natalee could be such a good girl & high achiever)

5) Personal offense (e.g. one former SM poster is offended that Beth did not respond to her donations, many others were banned from this site)

6) Sycophancy (emulating the more strident/flamboyant/popular posters’ viewpoints)

Regardless of motivation, however, it is indeed hard to imagine what would drive these people to such a level of hatred that they will ignore facts and donate money to the defense of the obvious perpetrator(s), all the while viciously defaming the victim and her family.

The psyche behind this behavior is truly disturbing.

 


Heading out for the day

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE