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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #717 1/31 - 2/01/08  (Read 506153 times)
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ala_gunslinger
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« Reply #700 on: February 01, 2008, 12:40:35 PM »

Ramses ?

The black man w/ shaved head shown in photo w/ goon and third male (posted on page 30 of this thread by Crazybabyborg) looks very much like Ramses, the gay black man who attempted to drive off with Brian Battjer's unconscious friend Scott in January 2004 on Aruba.

See Battjer's pictoral diary here:

http://ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/frame_index.html

(See part one, January 22 2004: Leaving NYC and our Crazy First Night in Town.)

Another connection to deviance, perhaps?

.

 

Thanks BH! 

I could not remember the details.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #701 on: February 01, 2008, 12:41:05 PM »

Joran confesses that Natalee died accidentally due to an overdose of drugs and alcohol.  He then panicked and got rid of the body because he was afraid he would be held liable for her death.  He was only 17 and very afraid...he didn't know what he was doing.  He wanted to tell the truth but his father said he knew he wasn't responsible but the world would see it differently.  He is truly sorry for what this has done to so many people.  Aruba says that's OK, he's confessed and it was all an accident...this is what happened now would everyone please go away and let this young man get his life back together?  No need to have a trial.  No need to see any evidence...he said he did it.  That is is enough to keep all the corruption hidden...dirty hand returns to the fold...life begins anew for Aruba.

This is what I see...sorry MOO
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snoopy
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« Reply #702 on: February 01, 2008, 12:42:18 PM »

Can we get a side by side visual comparison?  Klass...?

So many of the monkeys are experts at this -- can somebody make a side by side of these photos, so we can compare easily...?

I think it's Ramses, too.

.

That would be great!  They look like the same person, but it's hard to tell for sure without a side by side.

Great post as usual last night Hammer.  I stand with the girl too.
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #703 on: February 01, 2008, 12:44:35 PM »

Can we get a side by side visual comparison?  Klass...?

So many of the monkeys are experts at this -- can somebody make a side by side of these photos, so we can compare easily...?

I think it's Ramses, too.

.

Doing it now, Hammer. Just a sec. 
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AZSunny
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« Reply #704 on: February 01, 2008, 12:45:06 PM »

Natalee Holloway Update 10a:  Joran soon to become someones bitch!


 

He may already be!! See the picture from last night.
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #705 on: February 01, 2008, 12:46:13 PM »

 
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #706 on: February 01, 2008, 12:47:20 PM »

 
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #707 on: February 01, 2008, 12:48:39 PM »

 
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snoopy
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« Reply #708 on: February 01, 2008, 12:51:13 PM »

JMHO

Natalee was drugged, carved out, kidnapped, raped and as a result died.  That is manslaughter.  Then they obstructed justice.

Then some members of the Aruban Government chose to cover up the crime.
That's obstruction.

Then certain members of the press and tourist groups came on the internet and media to obstruct justice.

Since when does a tourism agency speak for a government?  Ridiculous.

They did this to themselves.  All they had to do was give Natalee back.  Juron would have already served his sentence because of his age, and things would have been back to normal for Aruba.  Thank God for Beth.  Because of her steadfastness many young lives have probably been spared.  Natalee's death will not be in vain.
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #709 on: February 01, 2008, 12:51:20 PM »

Joran confesses that Natalee died accidentally due to an overdose of drugs and alcohol.  He then panicked and got rid of the body because he was afraid he would be held liable for her death.  He was only 17 and very afraid...he didn't know what he was doing.  He wanted to tell the truth but his father said he knew he wasn't responsible but the world would see it differently.  He is truly sorry for what this has done to so many people.  Aruba says that's OK, he's confessed and it was all an accident...this is what happened now would everyone please go away and let this young man get his life back together?  No need to have a trial.  No need to see any evidence...he said he did it.  That is is enough to keep all the corruption hidden...dirty hand returns to the fold...life begins anew for Aruba.

This is what I see...sorry MOO

We haven't seen it, but my understanding is that Joran is pretty derogatory about Natalee in the tapes. I don't think the "Joran's very sorry for what happened" line is going to fly.
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Frank
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« Reply #710 on: February 01, 2008, 12:52:05 PM »

Enough of the Joran partying pictures already!
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Red
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« Reply #711 on: February 01, 2008, 12:52:13 PM »

Do not forget later tonight ... 9pm edt

Jossy Mansur will be one of the guests on the Dana Pretzer Show on Scared Monkeys Radio. Be sure to tune in.
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Peaches
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~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~


« Reply #712 on: February 01, 2008, 12:52:26 PM »

One of the things that has bothered me about Peter D. is that he taped Beth's response.  I think that was a private moment that should not have been made public, imo.

If Beth is satisfied, I am satisfied.  I will wait to hear it from Beth after she has recovered from having a fist to the gut on camera. 

God bless you Beth, you are my hero and if I could be 1/100 of the person you are, I will have lived a good life. 

I wish someone had been there to hold you and wipe your tears, you looked so lonely and so heartbroken.  I know you are in hell right now and I wish I knew what to do to help.  I am sending positive thoughts that you will get the relief you so deserve.  I am asking that you and Natalee are held in the palm of God's hand, to comfort you as no one else can.

Peter Devries is another modern day hero to Beth and I can tell you in no uncertain times she is fine with the camera, hence the public, being there to share the moment with her, as private asit might have been. The public has become her intimate ally, and the source of her strength, and she knows she must have the humility to share the really poignant moments with the ones who brought her to this point, gladly.

Beth going on camera with her reaction is reminiscent of Jackie Kennedy wearing the bloody suit all day.  Jackie wanted them to "see what they had done".   

Somebody oughta make those responsible have to VIEW that video all day every day for the rest of their miserable lives. 
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Expect a miracle.
crazybabyborg
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« Reply #713 on: February 01, 2008, 12:52:43 PM »

 

The eyebrows and nose match, IMO.
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SunnyinTX
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« Reply #714 on: February 01, 2008, 12:52:49 PM »

 

thanks CBB....I don't believe it is the same guy....one on top has a long chin....bottom has a square chin
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Rest in Peace Caylee
Natalee, We will never forget.
Zahra, run with the Angels

PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES AND GET OVER IT!  It's not about you or me.....It's about the Missing and the Murdered
SunnyinTX
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« Reply #715 on: February 01, 2008, 12:54:47 PM »

JMHO

Natalee was drugged, carved out, kidnapped, raped and as a result died.  That is manslaughter.  Then they obstructed justice.

Then some members of the Aruban Government chose to cover up the crime.
That's obstruction.

Then certain members of the press and tourist groups came on the internet and media to obstruct justice.

Since when does a tourism agency speak for a government?  Ridiculous.

They did this to themselves.  All they had to do was give Natalee back.  Juron would have already served his sentence because of his age, and things would have been back to normal for Aruba.  Thank God for Beth.  Because of her steadfastness many young lives have probably been spared.  Natalee's death will not be in vain.

  thanks Snoop
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Rest in Peace Caylee
Natalee, We will never forget.
Zahra, run with the Angels

PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES AND GET OVER IT!  It's not about you or me.....It's about the Missing and the Murdered
crazybabyborg
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« Reply #716 on: February 01, 2008, 12:55:40 PM »

One of the things that has bothered me about Peter D. is that he taped Beth's response.  I think that was a private moment that should not have been made public, imo.

If Beth is satisfied, I am satisfied.  I will wait to hear it from Beth after she has recovered from having a fist to the gut on camera. 

God bless you Beth, you are my hero and if I could be 1/100 of the person you are, I will have lived a good life. 

I wish someone had been there to hold you and wipe your tears, you looked so lonely and so heartbroken.  I know you are in hell right now and I wish I knew what to do to help.  I am sending positive thoughts that you will get the relief you so deserve.  I am asking that you and Natalee are held in the palm of God's hand, to comfort you as no one else can.

Peter Devries is another modern day hero to Beth and I can tell you in no uncertain times she is fine with the camera, hence the public, being there to share the moment with her, as private asit might have been. The public has become her intimate ally, and the source of her strength, and she knows she must have the humility to share the really poignant moments with the ones who brought her to this point, gladly.

Beth going on camera with her reaction is reminiscent of Jackie Kennedy wearing the bloody suit all day.  Jackie wanted them to "see what they had done".   

Somebody oughta make those responsible have to VIEW that video all day every day for the rest of their miserable lives. 

Yes. Beth seemed almost in shock.
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Nut44x4
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RIP Grumpy Cat :( I will miss you.


« Reply #717 on: February 01, 2008, 12:56:08 PM »

No...not the same guy. The noses tells the story.
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'I remained too much inside my head and ended up losing my mind' -Edgar Allen Poe
crazybabyborg
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« Reply #718 on: February 01, 2008, 12:58:45 PM »

Do not forget later tonight ... 9pm edt

Jossy Mansur will be one of the guests on the Dana Pretzer Show on Scared Monkeys Radio. Be sure to tune in.

Thanks for the reminder, Red! It should be interesting!
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #719 on: February 01, 2008, 12:58:54 PM »

Posted at RU by Sunmoonstars - translated by someone at BFN:

From BFN:

De Vries on Pauw & Witteman - Translation

Jeroen Pauw (J):We have wine, so we also have Peter de Vries.

Witteman (W): Peter, you made the world news immediately, let's take a look.

-clip- Prosecutors office in Aruba is now looking into new evidence that may show how Natalee Holloway was killed and the method in which her body was disappeared.

Patrick (in Miami) what can you tell us?

Patrick: Head officer Ruben of Aruba says this new information is coming directly from Holland from the crime reporter Peter de Vries.

They believe that this information may help considerably in the solution of the mystery of exactly what happened to Natalee Holloway, how she disappeared, and ultimately if they can find her body this can lead into that direction.

-end of clip-

W: Peter, congratulations, you are already world news. The last time you were here was with the family van der Sloot we asked you if you were going to pursue this case and you were vague about that, what happened since?

Peter de Vries (P): A lot. The case is solved.

W: Tell us what you can tell.

P: Well the case is solved, this Sunday I will, in a 2 hour long broadcast at SBS, reveal how we solved the case. And what exactly happened.

W: Yes the case, that can mean much, are we talking about a murder or a disappearance? What is the case?

P: The case is the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, that is the case, and how that happened and why and who was involved in this, all that I will tell Sunday.

W: Yes, The Press Release mentioned that a hidden camera was used in a spectacular way, how do we have to imagine that?

P: I cannot say much about that either, but what I can say is that we have worked on this case for months, we have a hidden camera to capture certain things, and that seemed very important, and those images we will show Sunday.

J: Did you use these camera's in Holland or in Aruba?

P: Both.

W: Both in Aruba and Holland, it was useful both in Aruba and Holland?

P: Yes.

W: What was the moment that you felt: I have the story... on or about?

P: There have been many moments that we felt that we were really close, that it could not take much longer. But it is a specific operation, we often were afraid that it would leak, that we would do things wrong, that there would be technical problems. And yes, in your mind, you go back and forward about have you nailed it, it was a process.

J: To whom it would leak, to the person that was taped?

P: You are performing an operation, there is much dedication necessary, technicians, others involved, I cannot say to much.

J: How many people were involved?

P: About 6- 8 it was a small group, very confidential, we were afraid it would go wrong, I had to disappoint people at my redaction, could not tell much, afraid it would leak.

J: Now Aruba is part of the Dutch Antilles, isn't it if you are on a plane to Aruba everyone starts to call etc?

P: Over a week ago me and colleague Kees van der Spek were in Aruba, and we were glad we took a plane to Curacao, we took a smaller plane from there. We did not think it would remain a secret had we went to Aruba in a Boeing.

J: The people who were considered suspects, Joran and the two others, you have been here with the family van der Sloot, father and mother VDS live in Aruba, did you talk to them there?

P: No I have not seen them.

J: Did you met with Joran?

P: No, did not see him, to my knowledge he does not live on Aruba.

J: You said in Aruba...

W: Peter, the redaction of NOVA dug into things going by some sources, they tried to perform a reconstruction of what you have done, they said how you we able to have an Aruban, who met with Joran in the casino in Nijmegen, able to win his trust, he was equipped with material, Joran started to talk and confessed, do you recognize this?

P: I did not watch NOVA, who said this?

W: The NOVA reporter.

P: Well maybe he should continue then, maybe he can also solve this case.

J: Before Sunday.

W: Do you recognize the story?

P: I am not going into this, how we came to this, that is something that all will be precisely explained Sunday.

J: We have found a piece on your site, in which you are talking about a confession of Joran. This is something you and your people have dreamed of. A Conversation with Mos.

W: Is this authentic?

P: I have not been on the Internet, I have been on the phone all night.

J: This is not something that appeared suddenly, it comes from your site, the conversation with Hans Mos, is it authentic?

P: I am not going to answer that.

J: Is that a yes or a no?

P: Not sure if I am speaking Spanish?

W: But is this from you.

P: I am not going into this.

J: Peter, then it is a yes, otherwise you would have said no.

P: If you know why are you asking?

J: To learn if it is authentic or not.

P: Because?

W: Because of your denial it seems...

P: I am not denying anything, I said I was not going into this.

W: The interview with Hans Mos, is it...

P: I have talked with him a couple of times, he is the head officer and...

W: And you offered him your findings?

P: Yes we have talked this through.

W: You have presented your results to Natalee's mother, and you were so kind to offer us some material:

-clip (preview from Sunday, Beth is shown)

Beth: Look what they have done...

Look what they have done to Natalee what they have done to a country.

Look what they have done to...to...

P: To you

Beth: Look what they have done to Natalee.

-end clip-
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1o4Ll9hDu0)

W: That was not an optimistic message you told the mother.

P: No.

W: Was it an emotional gathering also for you?

P: Yes of course, it had a lot of impact on me also, I am a crime investigator for 30 years, due to us some murder cases were solved, but the moment you have to give a mother such a message it affects you a lot.
And I am glad it did affect me, if not it would mean your emotions are totally cut off, it has affected me a lot.

W: You said I have solved more murder cases, that implies that we are talking about a murder here?

P: Ehm, well, yes then you make sort of a word-game out of it, let me say I have solved more criminal cases.

J: Did you talk to the mother today?

P: I have picked her up from Schiphol Airport this morning, she came to Holland per my request, and I have talked with her extensively about the case today.

W: You told her today what you had find out? Or did you tell her prior?

P: I have talked with her over the phone before, but did not tell her exactly what was going on, I told her that I had a major breakthrough in the case, and asked if she wanted to come to Holland. We had been in touch before, she has seen my previous show and followed what we were doing. She trusted me on my word and said, if you say I need to come I will come. And today we met, I informed her.

W: And she is convinced that with your findings the case is solved?

P: 100 percent.

W: You too, I saw a piece of your promo, in which you are standing on a sunny beach of Aruba:

P: This is the place where Natalee disappeared without a trace in Aruba. Almost no one believes anymore that this mystery ever will be solved. But we have the solution, we found out during a hidden camera action what happened to Natalee, and who has done this.

W: Solved, means that you are certain of your case?

P: Yes.

W: We ask this because at the end of the last show Joran asked the following question:

-clip-
Joran: If it ever will be clear what has happened in this case, and it turns out you were wrong, will you then apologize? Are you man enough to do that?

De Vries: What do you think?

Joran: I don't think so.

De Vries: No?
-end clip.

W: So these excuses do not have to come.

P: Well the thing is that after the show Joran apologized to me.

J: That was due to the wine on your jacket.

P: Yes.

J: One more question about this case, it is remarkable that you are convinced that you, probably you have shown a large part of that material of your investigation to the OM?

P: Yes.

J: And one would think the OM would then go make arrests. Could it be that from the moment that the OM was given all this info, quickly went tapping everything around Joran van der Sloot?

P: I don't know why you are mentioning this name right now.

J: Because he was to say the least, your prime suspect all this time.


P: Ok well, you would have to ask the OM what considerations they are making, I am not the spokesperson of the OM.

J: No but you are a long term crime journalist, and you know how this works out usually, on the moment no arrests are made yet, but when a certain direction is pointed into.

P: I think I understand it all.

J: But you don't want to tell per se?

P: I will do so Sunday.

Thank you Klaas

The highlighted words of Peter Devries has me puzzled.

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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