Natalee Case Discussion #703 12/8 - 12/11//2007

[Lala'sMom]

When I say he planned this...I mean it was in the works for him to do this for some time...no trial...no one learns about the corruption or the cover up...no information...no one knows the truth...everyone goes home happy and AHATA goes back to work trying to save Crappy Island. JMO

[Magnolia]

When I say he planned this...I mean it was in the works for him to do this for some time...no trial...no one learns about the corruption or the cover up...no information...no one knows the truth...everyone goes home happy and AHATA goes back to work trying to save Crappy Island. JMO

I think you are so right, Lala.  But I think it has backfired to some
degree in that it has brought the case to the forefront once again.

[Tamikosmom]

The Monkeys have known all of the facts since July 2005.
The Freebirds have posted detailed information.
Nobody pays attention.
What can we do with all of this information?

The only hope that I can see is Jossy printing it all in his
newspaper for all of Aruba to read.
I think most Arubans choose to ignore it all, but if it is
seen in print for several days running, maybe they will wake up.

Mos was a hope, but that hope has been shattered.
What else can we do?

What happened to the Dompig interview by Jossy that was supposed to reveal new information on the case? A teaser ran on Fox and it went poof.

Whay was this tape suppressed and why won't Jossy release it? Who yanked it and why?

Dompig/Jossy Video

Kimberly Guilfoyle
THE LINEUP
December 11, 2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymSWgZm6ivo

[Yellow Ribbon]

The only hope is to find Natalee's body. 

[msmarple]

I'm pretty sure this has been posted, but anyway ... I've been out of pocket for a few days.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   12/08/2007

They would finish me off in the US

Joran, by now nicely shaved, on his way to the supermarket, while enjoying his freedom. {current photo accompanied this article}

ORANJESTAD – Both lawyers had assured that after days of isolation, Joran van der Sloot would not want to say one word to the media.  Especially his parents are concerned.  On Friday afternoon, a few hours after his release, while walking back home from a supermarket in Noord with his younger brother, he was still willing to give a first reaction.  People in the supermarket have already been whispering: “he’s back”, “What has he endured”, and “It’s such a nice family”.  He doesn’t seem to be worried to walk over the street.  “I think that I would not have made it in the United States.”

It’s obvious that the 20-year old young man, who is still on Justice’s list of suspects, has not got over the adventure of the past days yet.  He has been detained for 15 days, and most of the time in isolation.  “I was in a cell that could hold 15 men, but I was alone.  I was allowed kick a ball so now and then and they indeed gave me the Bible.  I would have preferred contact with others.”

The interrogations were heavy.  “It’s not that they bothered me all the time, but every time I was interrogated, it was long.  I didn’t have anything to tell them.  I have already told them everything once and I was silent till the last minute.”

The arrest in his dorm in Arnhem was a complete surprise.  He planned to move to Amsterdam, due to the location of his school.  He hadn’t planned to go to Aruba for Christmas. “I really thought that it was over; that one day I would perhaps have to go to Aruba for the closing of the case.  But I have never thought that I would be arrested again in the Netherlands.  It turns out that they have nothing new here.  I still do not understand what they wanted.”

Van der Sloot hates the fact that he had to miss part of his studies.  He wants to go back soon.  He’s not sure how long he’s going to stay on the island.  “I’ll spend some time with my parents.  Despite everything, Aruba is a special place.  I’m going to take a plunge in the swimming pool right now.”

He will not get in contact with the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe that were released a few days earlier.  The friendship seems to have cooled off ‘for years’ already.  Yet another effect of the case, agrees Van der Sloot.

According to rumours in the media, Van der Sloot has taken a plane to the United States yesterday evening.  The journalists concluded this from his presence at the airport.  Nothing is further from the truth.  He was there to see his American lawyer off.  He will stay for the time being in Aruba.

[Magnolia]

It is hard for me to believe that Natalee's family did not want
the perps prosceuted on lesser charges, as Mos said.
In Josie's video Dampig says that there are statements to
charge them for sexual assualt.
Man, I would take that in a heartbeat.
Shoot, I would take the six month thing for hiding a body.

[Anna]

It is hard for me to believe that Natalee's family did not want
the perps prosceuted on lesser charges, as Mos said.
In Josie's video Dampig says that there are statements to
charge them for sexual assualt.
Man, I would take that in a heartbeat.
Shoot, I would take the six month thing for hiding a body.

Me, too, Magnolia, I am hoping for some clarification on this point. I would be very happy with any successful trial because that would bring forth information about other things I would think.

[Magnolia]

I would rather see them get one lick with the lash than none at all.
New information or not.

[Anna]

So Joran considers himself quite the celebrity in Aruba where they say what a nice family he has even with their Prosecutor stating both he and his father had some involvement in Natalee's disappearance.

The standard for "nice" must be very low if that allows for making others disappear.

And of course, he had no idea what they were questioning him about.

Could it have maybe been what he did with Natalee by any chance.

This kid is a total sociopath without one shred of remorse whatsoever.

[Anna]

I would rather see them get one lick with the lash than none at all.
New information or not.

A conviction and six months is better to me than no conviction and no months.

[Tylergal]

Good nite, all.  Thanks to all you that keep the faith.  I have been reading but not posting much.  Not much left to say.  I feel that we have been hoodwinked by others far more proficient than the evil Renfro.  It is easy to see what she is up to.   My Cross just goes nuts when she is around and my horseshoe cannot even keep her away, but the others were smoother than we were.  We have been had just like Beth & Dave.  I will continue to pray for our search/ocean explorers as I feel that is the only hope to ever bring Natalee back home.  I know she is in her "deserved place" in Heaven but it would be great to bring back any reasonable remains to her homeland on this side.  Goodnight. All and God speed our brave searchers.

[klaasend]

Nite Tyler

[Anna]

Tyler,

I agree completely, this was professional and at a very high level.  Renfro is a clown compared to those with whom we have been dealing.  Well, time will tell if it was worth it to them and if they got their money's worth.

There was far too much at stake and it had little to do with Sloot-boy.

Goodnight, all.

[Tamikosmom]

I would rather see them get one lick with the lash than none at all.
New information or not.

A conviction and six months is better to me than no conviction and no months.

It is hard to comprehend that the "Holloway family" agreed to this.  John Q. Kelly's anger and frustration with Hans Mos on the Greta show tells me there was no such agreement.

However ... we will have to wait on confirmation.

In my opinion ... establishing ... for the record ... the involvement of Joran, Deepak and Satish in the disposal of Natalee's remains would be huge in itself and ... a six month sentence implies that for six months other "Natalees" are not at risk.

I feel I am in the Twilight Zone.  Am I understand this correctly?  Hans Mos is implying that under Dutch law it is an offence to dispose of a body but ... considering the penalty is only six months ... that particular offence is not pursued in the Aruban courts.  What is the deterent?  In other words ... Arubans are free to dispose of bodies without consequences?

This is crazy!!!  It was my understanding that justice for the victim was what a justice system is all about ...

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++

Aruba prosecutor mulling closure of Holloway case
The Associated Press
Published: December 8, 2007

Mos said if prosecutors believed they only had enough evidence to charge someone with a minor crime related to the case, he and the Holloway family feel pursuing such a charge "doesn't serve a purpose." A person convicted of making a body disappear, for example, would serve only six months in prison, he said.

Holloway's relatives did not return calls for comment.

"We have a strong conviction that something happened that night, and that it was a very serious thing," Mos said. "The question is whether we are able to prove it."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/08/news/CB-GEN-Aruba-Missing-Teen.php

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/10/

MAMA DI NATALEE HOLLOWAY, NO SORPRENDI PA LIBERTAD DI JORAN
 
ORANJESTAD(AAN): Mama di e mucha muher Mericano desapareci Natalee Holloway, no a mustra di ta sorprendi Diabierna, cu Joran van der Sloot a wordo laga bek den libertad.

Joran manera ta conoci, ta wordo sospecha di tin algo di haber cu desaparicion di yiu muher di Beth Twitty, pero mescos cu e otro sospechosonan Deepak y Satish Kalpoe, a wordo laga den libertad, pa falta di suficiente evidencia nobo.

“Ta masha simpel, abogado di Twitty a declara.“Si husticia no tin suficiente evidencia pa sigui tene e sospechosonan, nan lo no tin suficiente evidencia pa cuminza un caso”, segun e abogado.

Online Pap translation:

mother of natalee holloway, not sorprendi for freedom of joran

oranjestad(aan): mother of the child muher mericano desapareci natalee holloway, not owing to show of is sorprendi diabierna, cu joran van der sloot owing to wordo let bek in freedom.

joran as is conoci, is wordo sospecha of have algo of haber cu desaparicion of child muher of beth twitty, but same cu the another sospechosonan deepak y satish kalpoe, owing to wordo let in freedom, for miss of sufficient evidencia new.

“ta very simple, advocate of twitty owing to declara.“si husticia not have sufficient evidencia for follow as the sospechosonan, they will not have sufficient evidencia for cuminza one caso”, according the advocate.

* * *

I don't have a clue about this one. Maybe Getagrip can help.

Autoridad lo tabata sa cu e ta lomba contra muraya
HOLLOWAY MESTER A KITA ATENCION FONDO NOBO SAN NICOLAS
 
Detencionnan Holloway tabata basta dia prepara

ORANJESTAD(AAN)—  Tabata 22 di november. E caso Fondo Desaroyo Nobo cu mester a conoce su finalizacion di investigacion na November, a conoce un sesion di regie. Na DIARIO a worde splica cu tabata djis un ocasion pa pone fecha pa tratamento di cada caso den Corte y eventualmente abogadonan pidi mas testigo.

For di esey a comprende cu no por a papia di un caso cera.  El a bira un caso cu a rementa y a pone autoridad lomba contra muraya.  Mientras medionan di publicacion tabata core pa trece e hechonan na publico, tur atencion a worde dirigi riba e caso cu a pone mundo busca caminda pa autoridad na Aruba.  Autoridad a tira mes atardi caso Holloway den noticia. Informantenan awor ta bisa DIARIO cu hamas esaki por tabata coincidencia. Detencionnan den caso Holloway a tuma hopi dia di preparacion.  Tin indicacion fuerte, cu Holloway mester a kita atencion for di Fondo desaroyo Nobo.

Dia 22 di November algo grave a socede. Un caso cu pa años a worde investiga door di Ministerio Publico, encarga cu persecucion penal, y supuestamente asisti pa tur instancia oficial cu por a usa den e caso aki, pa promer vez mester a habri bentana pa publico haya informacion concreto di e caso.

Origen di e caso tabata e Rapport Berdad di Rudy Lampe traha pa Gobierno Oduber encuanto e Fondo desaroyo Nobo San Nicolas, cu mester a percura pa trece cambionan structural na san Nicolas. E rapport, pa cual Gobierno Oduber a pone 700 Mil Florin un banda en vez di laga nan propio expertonan traha, a worde hiba door di Nelson Oduber y Rudy Lampe pa Ministerio Publico. For di e momento un persecucion politico y penal, cu nunca Aruba a mira ni den casonan di acusacionnan mucho mas pisa, a cuminza.

Pa años pueblo a scucha informacionnan cu Gobierno Oduber kier a usa contra nan contrincantenan politico y si leynan basico di e pais ta exigi pa den un tempo razonabel e veredictonan worde duna door di Huez, e caso aki tin cuatro aña andando.

Cu tabata trata di un persecucion politico tabata visto cu ta riba dos ex Ministro e atencion a worde poni. Informantenan clave a revela na DIARIO cu autoridad mester tabata na haltura cu ora porta habri pa e caso cu a keda tras di cortina, hopi cos por a socede. Esey ta loke a pasa tambe. Na momento cu e sesionnan a cuminza, a aparece e carta den cual Hendrik Croes na forma grosero tabata mustra autoridad, cu ta riba su insistencia tambe e caso penal a cuminza.

Dia 22 di November 2007 tabata un dia decisivo pa e imagen di persecucion legal, cu tabata completamente den defensivo. Fiscal mester a defende su mes cu no tabata tin presion politico. A resulta cu varios documento cu tabata supuestamente perdi a bini dilanti.

Mientras e noticia tabata plama na Aruba, cu a keda asombra pa loke e caso a produci, diripiente merdia Ministerio Publico a lanza e informe cu ta bolbe detene e rumannan Kalpoe y Joran van der Sloot.  Aruba a worde completamente sorprendi, mientras periodistanan Mericano y varios otro pais a dirigi tur atencion atrobe riba e caso Holloway, cu tanto daño a haci imagen di Aruba.

E caso Fondo Desaroyo Nobo, cu manera un vocero di Ministerio Publico mes a admiti enfrente DIARIO “no tin atencion publico:, a perde tereno.For di e momento tabata tin informacionnan cu a alcanza DIARIO cu ta straño con diripiente por a detene van der Sloot y rumannan Kalpoe. Pa por yega na e formulacionnan ta tuma basta tempo. E trabaunan administrativo no por a worde haci den un rato.

Informacionnan cu DIARIO a obtene ta indica, cu e momento cu a lanza e informenan encuanto detencion den e caso Holloway, cu no a produci nada, tabata oportuno pa a kita tur atencion for di realidad di e caso Fondo Desaroyo Nobo, cu a dal un vuelta total.

Tin hopi duda tocante e momento cu a scohe pa lanza e caso Holloway cu mester a haya tur atencion pa despues resulta cu Huez a laga tur e detenidonan den libertad, pasobra no tabata tin e evidencia necesario di parti di autoridad pa por a persigui nan.

DIARIO ta investigando e informenan ya cu en berdad e sucesonan ta cuadra cu loke e informantenan a trece dilanti. Tur informacion cu DIARIO ta ricibi ta mustra cu e Fondo Desaroyo Nobo por tin mucho mas su tras cu por a kere y no manera pa años a permitie worde pinta na publico.

Online Pap translation:

autoridad will was know cu the is back contra wall
holloway have to owing to less atencion fondo
new san nicolas detencionnan holloway was enough day prepara

oranjestad(aan)— was 22 of november. the caso fondo desaroyo new cu have to owing to conoce his finalizacion of investigacion at november, owing to conoce one sesion of regie. at daily paper owing to worde splica cu was immidiately one ocasion for place date for tratamento of cada caso in corte y eventualmente abogadonan ask more witness.

for of esey owing to comprende cu not can owing to talk of one caso close. past owing to become one caso cu owing to rementa y owing to place autoridad back contra wall. while medionan of publicacion was core for trece the hechonan at publico, all atencion owing to worde dirigi on the caso cu owing to place world busca caminda for autoridad at aruba. autoridad owing to throw self nightfall caso holloway in news. informantenan now is tell daily paper cu never this can was coincidencia. detencionnan in caso holloway did take much day of preparacion. have indicacion strong, cu holloway have to owing to less atencion for of fondo desaroyo new.

day 22 of november algo important owing to socede. one caso cu for años owing to worde investiga door of ministerio publico, encarga cu persecucion penal, y supuestamente asisti for all instancia oficial cu can owing to using in the caso here, for previous to vez have to owing to open window for publico achieve informacion concreto of the caso.

origen of the caso was the rapport berdad of rudy lampe work for gobierno oduber encuanto the fondo desaroyo new san nicolas, cu have to owing to percura for trece cambionan structural at san nicolas. the rapport, for cual gobierno oduber owing to place 700 thousand guilder one near provided that vez of let they own expertonan work, owing to worde take away door of nelson oduber y rudy lampe for ministerio publico. for of the instant one persecucion politico y penal, cu never aruba owing to see neither in casonan of acusacionnan mucho more pisa, owing to cuminza.

for años people owing to listen informacionnan cu gobierno oduber wanted owing to using contra they contrincantenan politico y if leynan basico of the country is exigi for in one time razonabel the veredictonan worde give door of huez, the caso here have cuatro year andando.

cu was deal of one persecucion politico was visto cu is on two ex ministro the atencion owing to worde poni. informantenan clave owing to revela at daily paper cu autoridad have to was at height cu hour door open for her caso cu owing to stay behind cortina, much cos can owing to socede. esey is thing owing to happen also. at instant cu the sesionnan owing to cuminza, owing to aparece the carta in cual hendrik croes at form rude was show autoridad, cu is on his insistencia also the caso penal owing to cuminza.

day 22 of november 2007 was one day decisivo for her imagen of persecucion legal, cu was completamente in defensivo. fiscal have to owing to defende his self cu not was have presion politico. owing to resulta cu several documento cu was supuestamente perdi owing to come fast.

while the news was plama at aruba, cu owing to stay asombra for thing the caso owing to produci, diripiente afternoon ministerio publico owing to lanza the informe cu is go back detene the rumannan kalpoe y joran van der sloot. aruba owing to worde completamente sorprendi, while periodistanan mericano y several another country owing to dirigi all atencion again on the caso holloway, cu tanto damage owing to haci imagen of aruba.

the caso fondo desaroyo new, cu as one vocero of ministerio publico self owing to admiti across daily paper “no have atencion publico:, owing to lose territory.for of the instant was have informacionnan cu owing to alcanza daily paper cu is odd con diripiente can owing to detene van der sloot y rumannan kalpoe. for can arrive at the formulacionnan is take enough time. the trabaunan administrativo not can owing to worde haci in one rato.

informacionnan cu daily paper owing to obtene is indica, cu the instant cu owing to lanza the informenan encuanto detencion in the caso holloway, cu not owing to produci nothing, was oportuno for owing to less all atencion for of realidad of the caso fondo desaroyo new, cu owing to strike one vuelta overall.

have much doubt tocante the instant cu owing to scohe for lanza the caso holloway cu have to owing to achieve all atencion for after resulta cu huez owing to let all the detenidonan in freedom, because not was have the evidencia necesario of part of autoridad for can owing to persigui they.

daily paper is investigando the informenan already cu provided that berdad the sucesonan is cuadra cu thing the informantenan owing to trece fast. all informacion cu daily paper is ricibi is show cu the fondo desaroyo new can have mucho more his slow cu can owing to believe y not as for años owing to permitie worde draw at publico.

* * *

[msmarple]

Murder & Crime thread - 44,506 views.

[Magnolia]

I would rather see them get one lick with the lash than none at all.
New information or not.

A conviction and six months is better to me than no conviction and no months.

It is hard to comprehend that the "Holloway family" agreed to this.  John Q. Kelly's anger and frustration with Hans Mos on the Greta show tells me there was no such agreement.

However ... we will have to wait on confirmation.

In my opinion ... establishing ... for the record ... the involvement of Joran, Deepak and Satish in the disposal of Natalee's remains would be huge in itself and ... a six month sentence implies that for six months other "Natalees" are not at risk.

I feel I am in the Twilight Zone.  Am I understand this correctly?  Hans Mos is implying that under Dutch law it is an offence to dispose of a body but ... considering the penalty is only six months ... that particular offence is not pursued in the Aruban courts.  What is the deterent?  In other words ... Arubans are free to dispose of bodies without consequences?

This is crazy!!!  It was my understanding that justice for the victim was what a justice system is all about ...

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++

Aruba prosecutor mulling closure of Holloway case
The Associated Press
Published: December 8, 2007

Mos said if prosecutors believed they only had enough evidence to charge someone with a minor crime related to the case, he and the Holloway family feel pursuing such a charge "doesn't serve a purpose." A person convicted of making a body disappear, for example, would serve only six months in prison, he said.

Holloway's relatives did not return calls for comment.

"We have a strong conviction that something happened that night, and that it was a very serious thing," Mos said. "The question is whether we are able to prove it."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/08/news/CB-GEN-Aruba-Missing-Teen.php

We just saw the Jossy video where Dompig says that they have the statements from the suspects "admitting sexual assualt" and there is
a provision in their law that gives an eight year sentence for that crime.
If they have the suspects confessions to that.....why can't they prosecute?
What am I missing?

[IBE]

Here's on thing that really chaps me....Joran's defense team is always bringing up Joran's statement that Natalee wanted to see the sharks as evidence that they took her to the beach.

Aside from the fact that every word out of his mouth is a lie......

I take the comment about taking her to see the sharks as his little smug joke with himself.  His online poker nic is shark68 or something.  If any truth from him, he took Natalee to someplace there was a poker game or gambling, like a private game where others were waiting for them to arrive.

The beach story is trumped up so much it's one of the biggest diversions.  IMO, they were never on the beach.  All about the "sharks".

Can you believe that 2 1/2 years later, Joe's crack forensic scientist drove around and didn't see any evidence?  And Star is supposed to be a lawyer.  Was she even listening?

Very very early in all this it was rumored there was a poker going on in the van der Sloots home with the "elders" (I take this to mean the Police Chief, govt officials) there with Paulus. Then all of a sudden, poof nothing more said.

[IBE]

Meant "poker game"

What ever happened about the brother of Joran posting the bathtub ditty on the Internet? (too graphic for me to repeat)

Monkeys, keep up the Good Works!

[Tamikosmom]

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet

10:10 PM