Natalee Case Discussion #838 6/12/10 -6/14/10

[Anna]

Jo-An,

Might be

SMELL-O-RAMA!

[Shell]

Jo-An,

Might be

SMELL-O-RAMA!

Anna, you are hilarious today lol

[MsVada]

Pfft!!! the door slammed in my face

Ooops, I'm sorry but  I did give several warnings...it's just really hard to do thread changes with the high traffic. 

you did good Muffy

[MsVada]

Hi Monkeys! I caught up just as Muffy was doing a fine job changing threads!

About the coffee........... if Joran didn't go get coffee, how did he have breakfast over Stephany's body?

That and how did he get the bread?

Since he'd been there two weeks, I would think he might have had some food in the room.
JMO
Mr. Flores stated that a receipt was found for the two coffees, not sure when they were purchased.

Thought I read somewhere that he walked next door to the gas station and got coffee and pastry.

[adoronron]

Joran didn’t heed his own notation when he thinking to himself.

Take a girl who has money and access to money back to your room.
Attempt to win at online poker so she’ll loan you money against your winnings.
If that doesn’t work show her you’re a murderer and threaten her for money.
If she threatens to go to the police, murder her.
Take your bloody clothes off.
Stuff your shirt in her mouth – the rapist gagged her so she couldn’t scream – explanation for blood on your shirt.
Take her pants off – looks like the rapist did it.
Arranged her body and articles in the room so it looks like an attempted rape gone bad.
Take shower, put on other clothes.
Leave room with door slightly ajar or with something keeping the bolt from engaging. – a business card or credit card might work
Leave hotel for enough time for the rape to happen.
Go to a store with a bathroom and get coffee.
Wait for someone to go into the bathroom and then follow him in.
Have him hold the room key while you put coffee down or some such thing. - the rapist now has his finger prints on the key.
Wait for the rapist to leave – pour out one cup of coffee – rinse the cup - collect urine and maybe pubic hairs left by the rapist.
Leave store – toss or place the key near hotel where it can be found.
Return to the room – place some urine from the cup on the panties and floor nearby – the rapist lost control during the struggle.
Rinse out the cup.
Put a little bit of coffee in the cup – swish it around – it needs to have coffee residue in it.
Return to the front desk with both cups and tell them you must have dropped your key right when you left the hotel while checking you pocket for money.
Ask them to open your room.
Gasp in shock and astonishment when you and the hotel worker discover the body. – make this a very good show of disbelief – the hotel worker will testify about your reaction.
Clumsily set the coffee cups near the sink knocking the empty cup into the sink – explains the empty cup.
Rush to the body and make sure you get blood on yourself – explains traces of her blood on you.
Grab her – make sure the hotel worker sees you hold her tightly with you fingers – explains her DNA under your fingernails.
Go into fit of anguish and rage – scratch your own chest in extreme grief – explains her scratch marks.
When the police arrive pretend to be in a panic. Tell them it’s because this will be the second time you might be wrongly accused of murder.
Tell the police you lost the key as soon as you walked out for coffee. Someone must have found it and entered the room while you were out getting coffee. When they find the key the rapist’s finger prints will be on it. – make sure they find the key.


Note to self: If the hotel has a recording security system this plan won’t work.

[Anna]

Shell, Good to see you!

Yes, I will do anything to avoid Saturday chores.  They are the worst!

[crazybabyborg]

OMG!  Did I just read in the last thread that Shango had a heart attack?  Well, at least part of Shango in the opinion of some of us.

Screw "Shango". If there really was someone with "knowledge" of what "Shango" professed to know -- they are as guilty as Joran. It's been 5 years -- and they have not outed ANYTHING. That is why I have nothing but contempt for those that followed "him". Shango added nothing but 5 years of misery.

I so agree with you, Wreck!!! I've scrolled past more "Shango" than I can possibly count!

[Tamikosmom]

When Aruban authorities became aware that Joran van der Sloot was about to flee ... crimes committed on Aruban soil should have dictated that ... at this point ... Joran was detained.

As I have always maintained ... the Aruban enemy has had a cover up agenda to protect Joran from the getgo.  There was no way ALE was going to stand in the way of Joran avoiding extradiction to the United States and risk the Natalee Holloway investigation from being exposed for what it was ... CORRUPT.

Could it be that Joran received a heads up from Aruban Authorities?  Could it be that he was instructed ... as Klaas would say ... "Get out of Dodge?"

Janet


That's what I think too Janet. Actually, he would have been a lot better off had they detained him. American or Aruban prison seems like a cake walk compared to what he is in for now.

.... and Stephany Flores' life would have been spared.  Aruba is responsible for the outcome of flagrant disregard for Dutch law.

Shell ... if the full extent of Pervian justice prevails for Stephany ... justice has also prevailed for Natalee.

Janet

[trimmonthelake]

http://www.examiner.com/x-21743-New-Orleans-Progressive-Examiner~y2010m6d12-Confessions-of-a-psychopath-murderer-The-arrest-of-Joran-van-der-Sloot
Confessions of a Psychopath Murderer: The arrest of Dutchman Joran Van der Sloot
June 12, 9:18 AMNew Orleans Progressive ExaminerGregory Boyce
Picture - if you can – a human being that hasn’t a conscience, none at all. Imagine that this “person” hasn’t any feelings of guilt or remorse regardless of what act that they’ve committed; devoid from their personality is the concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in their whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, harmful, or immoral action they had taken.

Now add to this strange fantasy belief that the inability to feel no compassion, to be conscience-free makes you superior and invincible; if you can mentally project such a “human being”, then you have described in a nut-shell the personality of confessed murderer Joran Van der Sloot.
<snipped>

[crazybabyborg]

Look at that face of the man on the right and then Joran's face!
Looks like he's already getting something jammed up his ***!

No, the wind just shifted and he's getting a whiff of Joran's crusty pants.

[jjayinthemorning]

Joran didn’t heed his own notation when he thinking to himself.

Take a girl who has money and access to money back to your room.
Attempt to win at online poker so she’ll loan you money against your winnings.
If that doesn’t work show her you’re a murderer and threaten her for money.
If she threatens to go to the police, murder her.
Take your bloody clothes off.
Stuff your shirt in her mouth – the rapist gagged her so she couldn’t scream – explanation for blood on your shirt.
Take her pants off – looks like the rapist did it.
Arranged her body and articles in the room so it looks like an attempted rape gone bad.
Take shower, put on other clothes.
Leave room with door slightly ajar or with something keeping the bolt from engaging. – a business card or credit card might work
Leave hotel for enough time for the rape to happen.
Go to a store with a bathroom and get coffee.
Wait for someone to go into the bathroom and then follow him in.
Have him hold the room key while you put coffee down or some such thing. - the rapist now has his finger prints on the key.
Wait for the rapist to leave – pour out one cup of coffee – rinse the cup - collect urine and maybe pubic hairs left by the rapist.
Leave store – toss or place the key near hotel where it can be found.
Return to the room – place some urine from the cup on the panties and floor nearby – the rapist lost control during the struggle.
Rinse out the cup.
Put a little bit of coffee in the cup – swish it around – it needs to have coffee residue in it.
Return to the front desk with both cups and tell them you must have dropped your key right when you left the hotel while checking you pocket for money.
Ask them to open your room.
Gasp in shock and astonishment when you and the hotel worker discover the body. – make this a very good show of disbelief – the hotel worker will testify about your reaction.
Clumsily set the coffee cups near the sink knocking the empty cup into the sink – explains the empty cup.
Rush to the body and make sure you get blood on yourself – explains traces of her blood on you.
Grab her – make sure the hotel worker sees you hold her tightly with you fingers – explains her DNA under your fingernails.
Go into fit of anguish and rage – scratch your own chest in extreme grief – explains her scratch marks.
When the police arrive pretend to be in a panic. Tell them it’s because this will be the second time you might be wrongly accused of murder.
Tell the police you lost the key as soon as you walked out for coffee. Someone must have found it and entered the room while you were out getting coffee. When they find the key the rapist’s finger prints will be on it. – make sure they find the key.


Note to self: If the hotel has a recording security system this plan won’t work.

Well done!
But it didn't work exactly the way he wanted it to.
Wonder if he knew where the security camera feed went to.

[MisGivings]

Van Der Sloot's Latest Lie

The 22-year-old Dutch native has been charged with the murder of Stephany Flores. Now prison officials tell The Daily Beast that he lied about the timing of the crime, that contrary to earlier reports, he wasn't high the night of it—and that he'll be locked in solitary confinement for months to come, "for his own safety."

Joran van der Sloot is finally, officially, going down. On Friday, the 22-year-old Dutch native was formally charged with first-degree murder and robbery in the death of 21-year-old Peruvian student Stephany Flores, whom he confessed to killing earlier this week. The Peruvian judge who condemned him to one of Lima's most notorious prisons to await trial added that the murder had been committed with "ferocity and great cruelty."

An extraordinary scene unfolded outside Lima's Palace of Justice as Van der Sloot heard the judge's order. Crowds of indignant onlookers flanked the rear entrance of the imposing colonial building as a decoy van marked "AMBULANCE" stopped outside the door. Van der Sloot, clearly identifiable by his height and close-cropped haircut, was the last of 11 suspects police manhandled into the entrance. Onlookers shouted "murderer!" and threw rotten vegetables at him from behind police lining the gap between the van and the door.

"For his own safety we cannot mix him with the other prisoners. This murder case is so infamous that he could easily be killed."

After van der Sloot was loaded back into the van to be transported to Lima's Miguel Castro Castro prison, Police General Cesar Guardia told The Daily Beast that most of what the accused murderer had confessed were blatant lies. "His toxicological report shows no signs that he had ingested any kind of drug," Guardia said, countering van der Sloot's perhaps strategic claim that he was high on marijuana when he killed Flores—in Peru, felony crimes committed under the influence of drugs can be treated with leniency in the courts.

• Barbie Latza Nadeau & Dan Collyns: Van der Sloots Tells AllGuardia also told The Daily Beast that van der Sloot lied about the timing of the murder. Earlier in the week, he told investigators that he had gone out to buy coffee for himself and Flores, and killed her when he returned to the room after finding the young woman on his computer. In fact, according to Guardia, hotel surveillance cameras show that van der Sloot faked his early-morning coffee run. Instead, he left the room with two empty paper cups and then summoned a member of the hotel staff to open his door, lying that he had forgotten his key.

This, according to the Peruvian police, underscores the suspect's attempts to cover his tracks. "In terms of the sequence of events which led him to commit this savage act, it's true he has recounted most of what occurred," Guardia told The Daily Beast. "But he admits there are also some parts which he doesn't remember." Guardia added that he thinks van der Sloot confessed "because the evidence against him was so overwhelming, he was obliged to do so."

Lamenting the final moments of the young woman's life, Guardia says he believes that Flores suffered greatly at the young man's hand. "Can you imagine how she could defend herself against a man who is two meters in height and with his physical build?" he asked. "He gave her a ferocious beating and took the life of a young Peruvian. In doing so he has injured the whole country and he will face justice."

At the very beginning of Van der Sloot's interrogation earlier this week, he hinted that he would reveal what really happened to Natalee Holloway, the young American woman he was suspected of killing in Aruba in 2005—but only if he could be returned to the Aruban authorities to do so. Peruvian police felt that Van der Sloot was trying to leverage information about Holloway in an attempt to be returned to Aruba, where he is perceived to have enjoyed protection from the law thanks to his influential family. "During the interrogation the question subtly slipped out, and he said he would talk to the Aruban authorities about the matter," said Guardia. But in the end, the Peruvians felt that the young Dutchman was simply crying wolf. Van Der Sloot has played the Natalee card on far too many occasions in the past. And Guardia says the Aruban authorities would be able to question Van der Sloot while he's in Peruvian custody.

Now the prisoner is en route to Miguel Castro Castro to be housed with its frightening population of 1,500 inmates. It is a maximum-security facility designed using the American prison model, with a central gun turret and several more on its periphery. The most dangerous murderers and terrorists serve time here, including former members of the leftist Shining Path rebel group and other smaller groups from Peru's 20-year internal conflict in the 1980s and '90s. But van der Sloot will not be part of the general population, at least for now.

"The Dutchman will be held in a solitary cell for at least four or five months," a prison official told The Daily Beast. "For his own safety we cannot mix him with the other prisoners. This murder case is so infamous that he could easily be killed. There are a lot of murderers in this prison, especially hit men who can easily be contracted from outside … To the criminal mind, it's an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. They feel affronted that he's murdered a Peruvian girl and they would kill him for the honor of their country."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-11/joran-van-der-sloots-prison-and-murder-charges/?cid=tag:all1

[MsVada]

The Dutchman will be held in a solitary cell for at least four or five months," a prison official told The Daily Beast. "For his own safety we cannot mix him with the other prisoners. This murder case is so infamous that he could easily be killed. There are a lot of murderers in this prison, especially hit men who can easily be contracted from outside … To the criminal mind, it's an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. They feel affronted that he's murdered a Peruvian girl and they would kill him for the honor of their country."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-06-11/joran-van-der-sloots-prison-and-murder-charges/?cid=tag:all1


Thank you,
I was pretty sure I had read that they put him in solitary cell for his own safety, not just that he may have asked to be put in one.  Not that I am defending him, he is where he belongs.

[MisGivings]

OMG!  Did I just read in the last thread that Shango had a heart attack?  Well, at least part of Shango in the opinion of some of us.

Not sure about the Shango part, but this is what I posted, lol.  I added the date and page to the newspaper article also.

An employee of IMSAN, 31 year old Jairo Jesus Vrolijk, died of a heart attack at his home. 

Hinkey?

http://www.awemainta.com/noticia/
6/12/2010 Awe Mainta Page 3



Papiamentu translation:

employee by barely 31 year is fayece after by attain atake by curazon (heart attack) at her cas at pos chiquito

diabierna afternoon owing to come into informe cu at one cas at pos chiquito have one person cu owing to become bad y do not give sign by life. at once owing to dirigi ambulance n’e sitio.

at arrival by ambulance owing to constata cu here is deal by one young employee by imsan cu apparently owing to attain one atake by curazon.

at once they owing to inicia cu c.p.r., but neither so they owing to succeed before scapa the young here. the young here owing to remain identifica because jairo jesus vrolijk. at family by the fayecido is bay we more sincero words by condolencia.

________________________________________________________________

http://www.aruba.com/ExploreAruba/islandfacts.aspx

(Instituto Medical San Nicolas (IMSAN)
Dr. Rudy Engelbrecht Building
Pastoor Hendrikstraat 10, San Nicolaas, Aruba
Tel: (297) 524-8833       

IMSAN is a medical center equipped with a reputable medical staff and modern equipment. Consulting hours for general practitioners are Monday to Friday 8am to 12pm / 3pm to 5pm. Emergency assistance is available 24 hours, seven days a week.

For on-site medical care, the Medical Mobile Team can be reached by calling 584-0500. This service, provided by registered doctors specifically for tourists in the hotel area, includes medical consult, treatment and prescriptions. If an ambulance is required, the medical mobile team can make arrangements and treat the patient until the ambulance arrives. This service is for such ailments as falls, sprains, abrasions, lacerations, burns, ear infections, tonsillitis, urinary tract infections, ear infections, and bites, eliminating waiting time in the hospital or a physician’s office. For life-threatening emergencies, call 911.

IMSAN also has a diabetic center which consists of a nurse, dietitian, podiatrist, needing no referral of a doctor. )

http://www.arubafilmfest.com/ImportantInfo.asp

Hmmm, maybe now, everyone who has knowledge of what happened to Natalee will start dropping like flies?

[Shell]

Shell, Good to see you!

Yes, I will do anything to avoid Saturday chores.  They are the worst!

Good to see you too Anna : ) I have not had a wink of sleep. Another night this case has kept me wide awake. I think I will watch TCM and drift off to sleep here pretty soon.

I just keep wondering what could have happened to a young man who could have had so much. I keep thinking of all the lives forever altered. I remember feeling so helpless and frustrated for 5 years waiting to see justice served for the loss of Natalee. And the sadness over another family having lost their daughter. Both girls I think were the kind, giving trusting types and he took advantage of that. And how many others have we yet to learn about.

[Curly]

Why does there have to be a trial? He confessed to killing Stephanee. Lock the door and throw away the key.

[cecilita]

As I was saying, Part 6 is not translated yet, can anyone understand what Mr. Flores is saying?

http://www.youtube.com/user/migmontest#p/u/0/mXDtQIivZXo
what number is this one?

This one is number 6
http://www.youtube.com/user/migmontest#p/u/0/ZpsoTBbmQBc

he says the police called him when they found the body and asked him not to go to recognized Stephany(because staphany was brutally killed) The father called his friends ( he named a person, I believe somebody from LE or a congress person)to take her daughter out of there with dignity and he didn't want them to remove the body of his daughter with plastic bags so he requested to remove the body in a coffer. Stephany's right arm had bruises all over . then he said, I hope my wife will pardon me but my daughter had on her neck  (and he starts crying) and then he says "I am sorry, I wont say it.
Then they talked about Stephany being drugged before to go to the hotel. MR Flores said that he thinks that Stephany was drugged because the way she walked. Then he blamed himself because he didn't teach his daughter about the other world(it means about bad people and bad things).
In the interview he says that Stephany was in the casino Thursday, Friday and Saturday and one of her friends said that Stepany had 7000 soles or dollars. He says that he doesn't know if they found the money with the monster.
The Wii is missing, they just found her wallet without money and her cellphone (he didn't said where, but I believe they found those items in the hotel)
He asked to the public to return his daughter belongins like neckles, bracelet, earrings because that could help the case and they dint have to be afraid to go to the police.

[Tylergal]

Shell, Good to see you!

Yes, I will do anything to avoid Saturday chores.  They are the worst!

I quit doing mine.  My air conditioning went out about 8 a.m.  If you can possibly avoid it, DO NOT get one of the energy-conserving units that is guaranteed to be green-friendly, because this is the 4th time ours has gone out since it was installed last March.

[Jo-An]

Gosh, it just breaks my heart to see Stephany's father in that interview.

[Tylergal]

As I was saying, Part 6 is not translated yet, can anyone understand what Mr. Flores is saying?

http://www.youtube.com/user/migmontest#p/u/0/mXDtQIivZXo
what number is this one?

This one is number 6
http://www.youtube.com/user/migmontest#p/u/0/ZpsoTBbmQBc

he says the police called him when they found the body and asked him not to go to recognized Stephany(because staphany was brutally killed) The father called his friends ( he named a person, I believe somebody from LE or a congress person)to take her daughter out of there with dignity and he didn't want them to remove the body of his daughter with plastic bags so he requested to remove the body in a coffer. Stephany's right arm had bruises all over . then he said, I hope my wife will pardon me but my daughter had on her neck  (and he starts crying) and then he says "I am sorry, I wont say it.
Then they talked about Stephany being drugged before to go to the hotel. MR Flores said that he thinks that Stephany was drugged because the way she walked. Then he blamed himself because he didn't teach his daughter about the other world(it means about bad people and bad things).
In the interview he says that Stephany was in the casino Thursday, Friday and Saturday and one of her friends said that Stepany had 7000 soles or dollars. He says that he doesn't know if they found the money with the monster.
The Wii is missing, they just found her wallet without money and her cellphone (he didn't said where, but I believe they found those items in the hotel)
He asked to the public to return his daughter belongins like neckles, bracelet, earrings because that could help the case and they dint have to be afraid to go to the police.

One of his sons identified the body.  There is probably something lost in the translation.  His son speaks very good English and was on TV one night this past week, the night of Joran's confession (I believe) either on Greta or TruTV, and said that the police advised his father not to come, for him to go and identify his sister, because they did not want to put the parents through the identification and he is the one who said that I first heard say that one of her eyes was totally missing and the other knocked loose.