Lindsey Baum # 5 9/28/09 - 10/4/09

[Leroy]

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4094886&postcount=163

from jennifer o:

Just wanted to say one thing about the LEs and lack of suspects.

we are dealing with small town America here. Everyone knows everyone (or possibly related in some way) so LEs could be keeping tight lips.

I found out just how small this world actually is today when my son and daughter in law came to help search.

KK and my daughter in law knew each other. KK dated my DILs uncle for many years and KK helped take care of my DILs great grandmother when she was ill. (he was investigated via us and SM a long time ago because he was/is on KKs myspace page- I had no idea it was my DILs uncle as I've never met him. I knew the name was the same but I thought maybe it was just a weird coincidence)

Anyway that kind of put it into perspective today just how small this world is. I can understand why the LEs are being quiet if they have someone in mind or are watching several "someones".

Acck!
All this using initials and hints and clues reminds me of reading at WS lol
Can someone please just say the name and come right out with what you are talking about?
I'm busy trying to figure out what was discussed last night with some poster somewhere being mean and spiteful to someone somewhere. 

Funny you say that Karma as this post was actually brought over from WS.

Also, doubledecker may have removed some posts from her site....her site is strictly for her research. so sometimes i think she will remove stuff if she feels it has no importance (such as posters bickering back and forth).  MO

[KarmaRoundUp]

I believe what is going on here is going back to square 1, so to speak.  Are there inconsistencies, things that don't make sense, in MB, KK, etc. timelines and/or actions that night?  If so, why?

This below doesn't make sense to me.

KaraK wrote:


1) She very well may have tried to contact me before that. At the time I got her call I'd only shortly before that switched my phone back on because the battery was drained. At the time I actually talked to her I had 1 bar on my phone so it had not been on the charger very long. - And because I'm sure someone will wonder how I remember that it is because we almost immediately went out looking and during the first 30 minutes I had several short calls between me and Melissa just checking in making sure Lindsey hadn't shown up and then I had to drop my phone off at home and charge it because it was already going dead.

KaraK wrote(same post):


2) I can not tell you factually why or even if she waited 20 - 25 minutes to call them all I know is at the time she called me she was outside walking towards my house - so I would assume it was because she fully expected to see her walking up the street or she was still calling around to the other numbers on Lindsey's phone. - I've never seen any actual confirmation though that it was actually 10:50 either because in the time it took me to tell my old man what was going on, get my shoes and coat on and Scott to grab his keys and us to get to her house (a 2 minute drive) she was already waiting for the officer to show up. And I imagine it may have actually been slightly earlier then stated because the McCleary officer that Tacoma dispatch (i believe it was TD) called in had just got off duty and was at home and he lives outside of town and he was there at her house right about 11:00 pm.

So which is it?
KaraK and old man rushed right over to Melissa's house OR they arrived at Melissa's after 30 minutes of searching?

Tracygirl, you could have a point about the fog that overcomes someone in a horrific situation such as MB was that night, but; when you couple it with Karma's post above AND MM telling MB to quit changing stores....I just don't know.

Hi, Monkeys!  I am a frequent lurker, infrequent poster.

I am wondering why these statements by KK are considered to be conflicting?  First of all, perhaps she was cutting MB some slack by saying she could have called earlier.  If my phone has no charge, it turns off and so it stays off while I charge it.  It wouldn't ring if a call came in.  So KK turns her phone on and MB calls around 10:25.  KK then gets her daughter and while she is asking her for details she is walking outside and looking to see if she sees LB.  KK states that MB is heading towards her house while talking with her and probably calling other numbers, and possibly the police.  MB and KK are calling each other back and forth about the details, KK possibly filling in MB on things her daughter said, where LB could have gone, while walking towards each other.  That could take 30 minutes if you have not panicked yet.  So then, either they meet or see each other and still no Lindsey.  Since KK just was going out to check around her house, expecting to see Lindsey, maybe she didn't have shoes on at that point.  I know I run outside in my bare feet all the time.  Which brings us to KK's second answer.  When neither KK or MB see Lindsey on the path she should have taken home, KK goes inside, drops off her phone and gets her old man.  They then drive to MB who is waiting for the police. 

Am I missing the conflicting statements or is this a plausible scenario?  (And of course, the above is completely hypothetical.)   

Hi Donuts
I should have bolded the differences like I just did above.
KaraK's boyfriend drove over to Lindsey's house.

[Madre]

jennifero is the poster at websleuths that has also been in contact with DD on her forum.  she is a local and has helped out a lot with the search. i have no idea what her intentions are.  at first most of us who read at multiple forums found some of her posts condescending, kind of like a know it all i guess that quickly befriended mb and kk.  i know i was extremely put off by the way she constantly would put down Scared Monkeys forum. it was not until dd made that post on her website at true crime forums that a lot of us realized just how much she was involved in talking behind peoples backs and stuff that are involved with the case. i know people at other forums like insessions have expressed frustration with her as well. 

I agree Sunshine! Especially the snarkiness toward our forum.  And the folks over yonder who would then line up and agree.. or not. 

Funny isn't it...that we 3 got the same impression.  Then, to see her "outed" by DD........

[KarmaRoundUp]

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4094886&postcount=163

from jennifer o:

Just wanted to say one thing about the LEs and lack of suspects.

we are dealing with small town America here. Everyone knows everyone (or possibly related in some way) so LEs could be keeping tight lips.

I found out just how small this world actually is today when my son and daughter in law came to help search.

KK and my daughter in law knew each other. KK dated my DILs uncle for many years and KK helped take care of my DILs great grandmother when she was ill. (he was investigated via us and SM a long time ago because he was/is on KKs myspace page- I had no idea it was my DILs uncle as I've never met him. I knew the name was the same but I thought maybe it was just a weird coincidence)

Anyway that kind of put it into perspective today just how small this world is. I can understand why the LEs are being quiet if they have someone in mind or are watching several "someones".

Acck!
All this using initials and hints and clues reminds me of reading at WS lol
Can someone please just say the name and come right out with what you are talking about?
I'm busy trying to figure out what was discussed last night with some poster somewhere being mean and spiteful to someone somewhere. 

I agree! I am still trying to figure out who that spiteful poster is too! I even read over there and didn't see the snarker...did you?

LOL....Cookie,I have even figured out where "over there"is.Where is over there?
 

[KarmaRoundUp]

welcome, dayolddonuts!

i enjoyed reading your post. i guess it kind of put it in a different perspective. i think she still needs a poly tho!

karma- i agree, if i was in charge of getting the names of searchers and someone told me their screenname instead of their real name, a red flag would go up. i am not justifying the fact that her property was searched, but if that was me, you bet the first thing i would do when i got home is go read all of their online posts by that name,  i think a lot of us would. but that's just me.  i guess i am nosey  again, not justifying her family being targeted as i believe all she was doing was trying to help.

I agree.Kona was also posting at WS and IS and she knew already that JenniferO had a bug up her butt about her.......so why go to the search and give your screen name knowing that JenniferO would recognize her by that name?
Why not just show up,show your ID and go search or work in the search center?
Maybe DD can tell us the answers to these questions if she knows?
 

[KarmaRoundUp]

KK and my daughter in law knew each other. KK dated my DILs uncle for many years and KK helped take care of my DILs great grandmother when she was ill. (he was investigated via us and SM a long time ago because he was/is on KKs myspace page- I had no idea it was my DILs uncle as I've never met him. I knew the name was the same but I thought maybe it was just a weird coincidence)

Can someone please tell me who JenniferO is talking about here?
 

They are talking about KaraK's old boyfriend.

And his name starts with a J or do we know his name?Thanks AZSunny.

[no rose colored glasses]

jennifero is the poster at websleuths that has also been in contact with DD on her forum.  she is a local and has helped out a lot with the search. i have no idea what her intentions are.  at first most of us who read at multiple forums found some of her posts condescending, kind of like a know it all i guess that quickly befriended mb and kk.  i know i was extremely put off by the way she constantly would put down Scared Monkeys forum. it was not until dd made that post on her website at true crime forums that a lot of us realized just how much she was involved in talking behind peoples backs and stuff that are involved with the case. i know people at other forums like insessions have expressed frustration with her as well. 

I agree Sunshine! Especially the snarkiness toward our forum.  And the folks over yonder who would then line up and agree.. or not. 

Funny isn't it...that we 3 got the same impression.  Then, to see her "outed" by DD........

It's crazy, and for Heaven's sake if Kona is not able to search, why would anyone expect her to put her name down for just dropping off food? I would have gotten mad and upset if someone was harrassing me to put my name down, and might have left with the food.

[Leroy]

KK and my daughter in law knew each other. KK dated my DILs uncle for many years and KK helped take care of my DILs great grandmother when she was ill. (he was investigated via us and SM a long time ago because he was/is on KKs myspace page- I had no idea it was my DILs uncle as I've never met him. I knew the name was the same but I thought maybe it was just a weird coincidence)

Can someone please tell me who JenniferO is talking about here?
 

They are talking about KaraK's old boyfriend.

And his name starts with a J or do we know his name?Thanks AZSunny.

The initial "j" was referring to JenniferO.  I'm not sure of the guys name though.

[Madre]

DD, if you can, would you please come on and put this to rest about Kona and the search that day?  I read that she went to donate food, not search as she was not physically able.  Thanks!

[Scandi]

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4094886&postcount=163

from jennifer o:

Just wanted to say one thing about the LEs and lack of suspects.

we are dealing with small town America here. Everyone knows everyone (or possibly related in some way) so LEs could be keeping tight lips.

I found out just how small this world actually is today when my son and daughter in law came to help search.

KK and my daughter in law knew each other. KK dated my DILs uncle for many years and KK helped take care of my DILs great grandmother when she was ill. (he was investigated via us and SM a long time ago because he was/is on KKs myspace page- I had no idea it was my DILs uncle as I've never met him. I knew the name was the same but I thought maybe it was just a weird coincidence)

Anyway that kind of put it into perspective today just how small this world is. I can understand why the LEs are being quiet if they have someone in mind or are watching several "someones".

Acck!
All this using initials and hints and clues reminds me of reading at WS lol
Can someone please just say the name and come right out with what you are talking about?
I'm busy trying to figure out what was discussed last night with some poster somewhere being mean and spiteful to someone somewhere. 

I agree! I am still trying to figure out who that spiteful poster is too! I even read over there and didn't see the snarker...did you?

LOL....Cookie,I have even figured out where "over there"is.Where is over there?
 

LOL  Hi Karma,  It has to be WS, and likewise over there, SM is referred to as 'over yonder' as well.  It is too bad IMO but beyond our control and simply want us all to work together.

Now I also want to say that the talk of Jenn is also too bad.  It has to be something personal.  At WS we have one rule that we don't attack the poster, just the post.  I don't know if she belongs here but I post with her every day o'er yonder and must say I wish I had half the energy she has and could match the devotion and strength she has in doing her best to help find Lindsey.  I have never seen a negative side to her and am just putting this out there like I would for anyone else I admire.  Come what may, it should be all about Lindsey and not about ragging on a poster who has her best interest at heart.  The same could be said about Kona, although I have never posted with her that I know of. 

xox  See y'all tonight!

[KarmaRoundUp]

tamiko's mom-

i agree with your viewpoint regarding the search.  i honestly think that when kona wouldn't give her real name to the person in charge of registering people for the searches it may have put up a red flag for that person.  i can kind of understand why because many times perps will insert themselves in investigations (I am NOT saying i think kona or her family has anything to do with this, im simply saying why it might raise a red flag)...

im sure the person who was trying to get kona to give her real name spoke with people about how she thought it was weird that this person didnt give her name, and i wouldn't be suprised if that's what started this. surely locals knew who this person was and then im sure they all started digging deeper into the family...

maybe thats how this whole thing w/kona started?

Which has me questioning why not give your real name.
When you go on those searches you have to show ID.Kona knew this.Besides,JenniferO would surely recognize her more from her screen name than by her real name right?
If you didn't want to give your real name for whatever reasons,maybe just not sign up to search?

According to DD, she did not go to search, she is not physically able to go on searches.  I think she dropped off food.

Hmmmm,when did DD say that?And if true why would JenniferO want her full name?

[sebastian]

AZ Sunny, I too am so sorry for your loss!

Here is the thing that I cannot get my brain around. So, for the sake of argument, let us just say that Kona's son took Lindsey. MB stated that Linsey would not go anywhere with someone that she did not know. So........following that logic, how would DG get her into his car? If he came out of work at the Beehive, at the exact time that Lindsey was walking home, how did he get to her? Ok, let's just say for the sake of arguement that Lindsey was talking to him online. Would she really get into a car with a 23 year old. Really? She was 10! She and her friends appeared much more grown up than my 11 year old daughter, but NOT THIS GROWN UP! Also, he is 23. Is it possible that a 23 year old is smart enough to commit a crime like this and get away with it for 3 months? I am more apt to think of this as a set up. I could be WAY OFF BASE of course. It just seems to me that whoever took Lindsey is pretty saavy. They have eluded LE for 3 months. Maybe for fun and entertainment they decided to send LE on a wild goose chase. What better subject to pursue than this kid. He just so happens to drive a white car. He just so happens to work at the Beehive. If it is true, he has already been caught with child porn at school. Although, I would like to hear more proof of that. Wouldn't he have a juvie record or something? I thought things like that were taken VERY SERIOUSLY! He and his family are not well liked around town. They live on a property that is unkept and suspicious looking. Could there be an evil genius lurking in McCleary? I just don't know anymore!

I am bumping this because I want to see if anyone else has any thoughts on how Kona's son could have done this.

[Leroy]

DD, if you can, would you please come on and put this to rest about Kona and the search that day?  I read that she went to donate food, not search as she was not physically able.  Thanks!

It is in the first post at this link

http://truecrime.forums-free.com/what-is-going-on-t1360.html

Kona went to donate food.

[DayOldDonuts]

I believe what is going on here is going back to square 1, so to speak.  Are there inconsistencies, things that don't make sense, in MB, KK, etc. timelines and/or actions that night?  If so, why?

This below doesn't make sense to me.

KaraK wrote:


1) She very well may have tried to contact me before that. At the time I got her call I'd only shortly before that switched my phone back on because the battery was drained. At the time I actually talked to her I had 1 bar on my phone so it had not been on the charger very long. - And because I'm sure someone will wonder how I remember that it is because we almost immediately went out looking and during the first 30 minutes I had several short calls between me and Melissa just checking in making sure Lindsey hadn't shown up and then I had to drop my phone off at home and charge it because it was already going dead.

KaraK wrote(same post):


2) I can not tell you factually why or even if she waited 20 - 25 minutes to call them all I know is at the time she called me she was outside walking towards my house - so I would assume it was because she fully expected to see her walking up the street or she was still calling around to the other numbers on Lindsey's phone. - I've never seen any actual confirmation though that it was actually 10:50 either because in the time it took me to tell my old man what was going on, get my shoes and coat on and Scott to grab his keys and us to get to her house (a 2 minute drive) she was already waiting for the officer to show up. And I imagine it may have actually been slightly earlier then stated because the McCleary officer that Tacoma dispatch (i believe it was TD) called in had just got off duty and was at home and he lives outside of town and he was there at her house right about 11:00 pm.

So which is it?
KaraK and old man rushed right over to Melissa's house OR they arrived at Melissa's after 30 minutes of searching?

Tracygirl, you could have a point about the fog that overcomes someone in a horrific situation such as MB was that night, but; when you couple it with Karma's post above AND MM telling MB to quit changing stores....I just don't know.

Hi, Monkeys!  I am a frequent lurker, infrequent poster.

I am wondering why these statements by KK are considered to be conflicting?  First of all, perhaps she was cutting MB some slack by saying she could have called earlier.  If my phone has no charge, it turns off and so it stays off while I charge it.  It wouldn't ring if a call came in.  So KK turns her phone on and MB calls around 10:25.  KK then gets her daughter and while she is asking her for details she is walking outside and looking to see if she sees LB.  KK states that MB is heading towards her house while talking with her and probably calling other numbers, and possibly the police.  MB and KK are calling each other back and forth about the details, KK possibly filling in MB on things her daughter said, where LB could have gone, while walking towards each other.  That could take 30 minutes if you have not panicked yet.  So then, either they meet or see each other and still no Lindsey.  Since KK just was going out to check around her house, expecting to see Lindsey, maybe she didn't have shoes on at that point.  I know I run outside in my bare feet all the time.  Which brings us to KK's second answer.  When neither KK or MB see Lindsey on the path she should have taken home, KK goes inside, drops off her phone and gets her old man.  They then drive to MB who is waiting for the police. 

Am I missing the conflicting statements or is this a plausible scenario?  (And of course, the above is completely hypothetical.)   

Hi Donuts
I should have bolded the differences like I just did above.
KaraK's boyfriend drove over to Lindsey's house.

Thank you for the clarification, Karma.

If you put the two bolded sections together, it reads like her timeline.  From the call at 10:25 she searched for half an hour which brings her to going back into her house, getting her boyfriend at 10:55 and driving to MB's house where the police arrived around 11.  So I still don't see a discrepancy...

[Madre]

tamiko's mom-

i agree with your viewpoint regarding the search.  i honestly think that when kona wouldn't give her real name to the person in charge of registering people for the searches it may have put up a red flag for that person.  i can kind of understand why because many times perps will insert themselves in investigations (I am NOT saying i think kona or her family has anything to do with this, im simply saying why it might raise a red flag)...

im sure the person who was trying to get kona to give her real name spoke with people about how she thought it was weird that this person didnt give her name, and i wouldn't be suprised if that's what started this. surely locals knew who this person was and then im sure they all started digging deeper into the family...

maybe thats how this whole thing w/kona started?

Which has me questioning why not give your real name.
When you go on those searches you have to show ID.Kona knew this.Besides,JenniferO would surely recognize her more from her screen name than by her real name right?
If you didn't want to give your real name for whatever reasons,maybe just not sign up to search?

According to DD, she did not go to search, she is not physically able to go on searches.  I think she dropped off food.

again, she did NOT GO THERE TO SEARCH. 
http://truecrime.forums-free.com/what-is-going-on-t1360.html

BUMP

[Leroy]

Here are some snips from doubledeckers (Skye) post at her forum regarding Kona:

She went to the meeting and she donated food for the search.

She was not searching anyway as she is not physically capble of going out on searches..

http://truecrime.forums-free.com/what-is-going-on-t1360.html

(doubledecker - hope you dont mind that I did this...just trying to clear up some questions)

[KarmaRoundUp]

jennifero is the poster at websleuths that has also been in contact with DD on her forum.  she is a local and has helped out a lot with the search. i have no idea what her intentions are.  at first most of us who read at multiple forums found some of her posts condescending, kind of like a know it all i guess that quickly befriended mb and kk.  i know i was extremely put off by the way she constantly would put down Scared Monkeys forum. it was not until dd made that post on her website at true crime forums that a lot of us realized just how much she was involved in talking behind peoples backs and stuff that are involved with the case. i know people at other forums like insessions have expressed frustration with her as well. 

I agree Sunshine! Especially the snarkiness toward our forum.  And the folks over yonder who would then line up and agree.. or not. 

Funny isn't it...that we 3 got the same impression.  Then, to see her "outed" by DD........

It's crazy, and for Heaven's sake if Kona is not able to search, why would anyone expect her to put her name down for just dropping off food? I would have gotten mad and upset if someone was harrassing me to put my name down, and might have left with the food.

OK,I can kinda see why the people at the search center would want to see some ID,even if you are just dropping off food.What IF it was someone who wanted to sabotage the whole search by putting poison or something in the food?
Maybe I watch too many CSI's and L&O's and other crime shows plus I am kinda paranoid.

[KarmaRoundUp]

KK and my daughter in law knew each other. KK dated my DILs uncle for many years and KK helped take care of my DILs great grandmother when she was ill. (he was investigated via us and SM a long time ago because he was/is on KKs myspace page- I had no idea it was my DILs uncle as I've never met him. I knew the name was the same but I thought maybe it was just a weird coincidence)

Can someone please tell me who JenniferO is talking about here?
 

They are talking about KaraK's old boyfriend.

And his name starts with a J or do we know his name?Thanks AZSunny.

The initial "j" was referring to JenniferO.  I'm not sure of the guys name though.

Thanks Leroy.

[KarmaRoundUp]

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4094886&postcount=163

from jennifer o:

Just wanted to say one thing about the LEs and lack of suspects.

we are dealing with small town America here. Everyone knows everyone (or possibly related in some way) so LEs could be keeping tight lips.

I found out just how small this world actually is today when my son and daughter in law came to help search.

KK and my daughter in law knew each other. KK dated my DILs uncle for many years and KK helped take care of my DILs great grandmother when she was ill. (he was investigated via us and SM a long time ago because he was/is on KKs myspace page- I had no idea it was my DILs uncle as I've never met him. I knew the name was the same but I thought maybe it was just a weird coincidence)

Anyway that kind of put it into perspective today just how small this world is. I can understand why the LEs are being quiet if they have someone in mind or are watching several "someones".

Acck!
All this using initials and hints and clues reminds me of reading at WS lol
Can someone please just say the name and come right out with what you are talking about?
I'm busy trying to figure out what was discussed last night with some poster somewhere being mean and spiteful to someone somewhere. 

I agree! I am still trying to figure out who that spiteful poster is too! I even read over there and didn't see the snarker...did you?

LOL....Cookie,I have even figured out where "over there"is.Where is over there?
 

LOL  Hi Karma,  It has to be WS, and likewise over there, SM is referred to as 'over yonder' as well.  It is too bad IMO but beyond our control and simply want us all to work together.

Now I also want to say that the talk of Jenn is also too bad.  It has to be something personal.  At WS we have one rule that we don't attack the poster, just the post.  I don't know if she belongs here but I post with her every day o'er yonder and must say I wish I had half the energy she has and could match the devotion and strength she has in doing her best to help find Lindsey.  I have never seen a negative side to her and am just putting this out there like I would for anyone else I admire.  Come what may, it should be all about Lindsey and not about ragging on a poster who has her best interest at heart.  The same could be said about Kona, although I have never posted with her that I know of. 

xox  See y'all tonight!

Hi Scandi
No,JenniferO is not a member here I don't think....judging from the way she and a few others rag on us lol

I don't know JenniferO but from reading her posts at WS and IS she comes off as bossy and a know it all BUT I understand you admiring her.She does seem to add a lot of good things in the way of trying to find Lindsey.

[Sister]

You cannot force someone to take a poly.  It is against the law.  One reason, it is not admissable in court.  A poly is used to give LE some direction as which way to go. 
Now to the women surrounding Melissa Baum -- Melissa McCann was one of the reasons that Melissa Baum moved to Washington.  She and Melissa Baum have been friends for a very long time.  Since Melissa Baum moved back to Washington, Melissa McCann has had a new addition, beautiful baby! and a new boyfriend.  When such events happen, girlfriends often don't talk to each other as much or see each other as much.  They were/are still good friends.  The night Lindsey went missing, Melissa Baum called Melissa McCann, and the next day Melissa McCann went to Lindsey's house and spent a considerable amount of time there in the following days.
KaraK was not close friends with Melissa Baum, having only been living in McCleary for a short period of time (I think since January).  However, their daughters were very good friends and spent a lot of time together.  Until Lindsey went missing, KaraK and Melissa Baum did not spend a lot of time together, they were simply the mothers of their daughters who were best friends.
Jennifer O does not live in McCleary and she has a family.  When the Laura Recovery Center was coming to town, she volunteered and took instruction on how to organize searches, etc.  Consequently, she became very involved with the Baum family, with KaraK, and Melissa  McCann.
So there you have 3 different women trying to help Melissa Baum.  I can only imagine the different personalities of each trying to give advice to Melissa Baum as to what she should do, when she should do it, and how she should do it.  Add to that mix, Melissa Baum's own family, an ex the flies in to town and leaves shortly thereafter, LE giving her advice, etc and a son who has issues, including trying to deal with life without a father around, and God only knows who else.
Now, do you really think Melissa Baum owes either one of us an explanation as to what she has or has not done?  We want a timeline . . . we want an explanation . . . we want more polys . . we want . . . we want . . . we want . . .
Would you come on some forum and try to explain anything, knowing any thing and everything she says will be chewed up and spit out and then chewed some more.
Now before anyone get all huffy, let me assure you that the first person I am talking to is me . . . I've wanted to know this, I've wanted to know that. . . and maybe my/your motives have been correct, we want Lindsey home with her mother . . . but how dare I even suggest that Melissa Baum is accountable to me to satisfy my need and/or curiosity.
I don't think she reads here, but if she does . . . all I can say, as pitiful as it is, Melissa Baum I am sorry.
Now what, the fact is, as we all know, Lindsey is missing.  As someone has already said, we/I need to go back to square one and see if I can glean one little sliver of fact of anything that might help bring this child home.  Being critical won't help a bit, saying how could she? won't help at bit -- what is done is done and can't be changed no matter what my personal opinion is about whether it should have been done a certain way or not.  I am sorry I have participated in and fed the feeding frenzy.  I take full responsibility for my actions.