Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

You all know the rules

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/klaasend2/InHonorofNatalee.jpg)

Thanks Klaas

I just remember the board would always go down when you-know-who was the topic.

So i figured you had posted the L_____O process verbaal and kabloooey!

 8)

Not sure why it happens, but some times a post get corrupted and it hangs the thread.  You can actually read all the way up to page 8 but you can't post in that thread so I locked in and created this one.

Good job geeting this alternate forum up. :)

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Spock,
So who is the connection between Steve Croes and Geoffrey von Cromfroit?  You didn't ever tell us the answer to your question.

I would like to know what the connection is as well as I don't want to just guess who it is.  

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Thanks Spock - had do something for you later nighters, lol  :lol:

Good question Anna. What I was trying to say is that Steve Croes and Geoffrey Cromvoirt are more closely tied to Deepak Kalpoe than to Joran. I suspect this Steve Croes that Deepak says was at Carlos and Charlies that night, may have been one of the two "dogs" Joran said Deepak brought to the beach. He may be involved, it is unlikely he gave the suspects an alibi "out of the blue".  Also, there are pictures of Steve and Geoffrey together, so I speculate the second "dog" may have been Geoffrey. It could, of couse have been someone else. I think the "key" here is that Deepak did not have to be at work until late Monday, Satish and Croes either missed work or school the next day, and Geoffrey is tied closely to Croes. I suspect a "second group" went back to the beach, and I recall Dompig shared this idea with us last Fall.

GOODNIGHT ALL!

I don't think we should lose sight that Steve was at C&C that night, and that he later provided a "false alibi". He did that for a reason and placing him at C&C gives him the opportunity for involvement.

Nite Klass and thanks for getting us back up and running!

Spock,  I have seen those pictures of Croes & GVC together, with girls, no less, but there is always Jerry.  Is Jerry one of the dogs?  GVC does have a boat.  SC knows how to operate a boat.  Did they take Natalee out on a boat?  Was she alive when they took her out?

FYI - now the front page of SM is down.  I've let Red and Tom know but it may be down all night.

Goodnight again!

I don't know what happened. I will say Steve Croes may be the key to unraveling this mystery and if he was at C&C that gives me even more reason to suspect his involvement. Does anyone remember the early reports that Steve told his grandmother he had witnessed an argument between three boys and a girl on the beach?

Hey Spock, I remember reading  that about SC hearing people arguing on the beach. It was on Majorwager.

http://www.majorwager.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=133972&STARTPAGE=10&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

.....sorry 'bout the margins :oops:

Thanks Bleachedblack

Good morning.  It's a rainy day in GA.

Good Morning Peaches.  How are you feeling today.

Morning, San.  My face is visibly swollen.  I feel like I was poked in the back of my mouth with a Phillips head screw driver.  The pain meds are just kicking in and I am at the office.  Working and lurking.  Thanks for asking.

Anything new?

Hi San & Peaches-

I hope you feel better soon Peaches !!!!!!!!

I walked into that corrupt thread, got that weird code prompt so I'll check back in later today after Tom has a chance to fix it. Boy, something is in the air here today, having sneezing attacks, ugh allergies!

Everyone have a good day!

Good Morning Monkeys!!

Peaches - it is rainy here too.  It is okay with me though, not many people come in for me to have to deal with at work.  Stay up on those pain meds...don't let them wear off.   I know you'll feel better soon

None - agreed about the allergies... Along with a horrible sore throat I had over the week end, I now am battling my allergies as well.  It is the season for me. Oh well.

San - good to see you.

I am gonna go read the new statements - and the Front Page - Something I am trying better to keep up with - as there are alot of good thoughts from those that don't come in the cage.

Good Morning Gang...

I believe there was some discussion about this quote last night... I had saved it.  

Quote:

bakabl wrote:Frist Im vary sorry to hear of the vary sad case of Natalee Holloway in such a wonderful place like Aruba but it could happen anywere at any time. There are a few questions that need to be asked of the two men that the FBI are questioning - 1st ask them about the drink that was given to Natalee around 3:15am Aruba Time the morring Natalee never retyrn to her hotel and ask them about what the drug was in the drink that Natalee drunk without her knowing. 2nd ask them about the boat and the 2-1/2 mile trip they took.

They should break dowm and tell the truth about are were Natalee can be found.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:33RgJa7V6I4J:websleuths.com/forums/

Is there any way to put together side-by-side pictures of Koen and Steve C from 2005 and now?  Also any others in that group that seem to have morphed into the true monsters that they were all along?

Something is going on with these people.  Maybe it is the stress of guilt.

Where does Deepak say that S. Croes was at CnCs that night?  In one of his statements he says Croes told him he was, but Croes is probably lying about that just like he was lying about seeing the HI dropoff.  I don't think Deepak ever said he saw Creos at CnCs that night himself.  And I don't believe either Croes or GVC ever met Natalee or has a thing to do with what happened to her.

IIRC I think there are 2 monkeys whos Birthdays we may have missed? Or they are coming up soon. (Im having a brain fart here.. lol)

Anyhow HAPPY BIRTHDAY to EASY and YAP...!!



(http://bestsmileys.com/birthday1/11.gif)

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(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/213rds8_th.jpg)

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Good morning y'all....

Based on what we have "heard," Natalee & GVC had a confrontation on Friday night.  Natalee rebuffed his advances.

Thanks for posting that, Bleachedblack.  I did post about this a couple of days ago but was told it was a maid at a hotel who saw this.  I don't usually try to correct even factual errors any more because I get

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/claws2.gif)scratched too badly and tend to
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/4hd4b2a_th.jpg) rather than fight about it but this is correct.

And further one of our own Aruban monkey posters posted at Major Wager which is promoting online sports betting.  Michael Posner was at the forefront in online betting so I have always wondered if there was a connection to this poster and Posner.  By that I mean an employee or person just looking after the interest of the gaming industry, etc. Not a relative or anything like that, just a friendly connection.

So I do remember it being said Steve Croes told this to his Grandmother very early on and it makes more sense also as to his arrest for in Aruba they do tend to arrest the witnesses and let the suspects go.  

Sleuth who has not posted lately said she did not think Steve Croes could have seen or heard from where his boat was supposed to be that night so I don't know, just something to keep in the back of one's mind.

There is more to Steve Croes connection than we know at present for it never made sense for him to just volunteer to go in and vouch for a story that never happened and most especially long after the suspects had changed that story.  If he actually did that, it would have to make him just unbelievably dense and while I do understand most of these kids have long since fried their brains with substance abuse, surely he is not that stupid.    :roll:

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Well, I second those wishes!  Happy Birthday, Easy and Yap!

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Well, I thought Spock had the answer and some in-depth perspective on it all and was giving us a quiz.   :oops: Didn't realize he was asking for information.  

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/21brxbn_th.jpg)

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Sorry Monks, I crashed around 9ish last night.
OF, I bet Jacobs has his tail caught in many things.
Dihannah1, I think I recall Jossy saying that he never heard of j2k prior to this, but did say on Dana that the Dos Santos kids was bad news (paraphrasing)
Sam, yes several Monkeys reported astrid vr’s house for sale.


Shiz, yes in one of dk’s statements he states sc was at c&c and saw them w/ Nat. He didn’t come forward b/c something like he called in sick to work (tattoo) and went out.

Happy BDay Easy and Yappers

Hi Monkeys

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NM,
I left something for you in the Monkey Lounge on the Test Thread if you want it as a spare.  

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Well, I gotta say it too - and borrow from Angie's cake - since I don't know quite how to post those :oops:

Happy Birthday to Easy and YAP!!!!!

I for one hope the guilt is EATING THEM ALIVE!!!!

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Happy Birthday to yapperz
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/23krf9v_th.gif)


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And Happy Birthday to Easywriter

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/24pfimr_th.gif)

Hey Anna,
How sweet! Thank you so much!  I found and bought an umbella w/ my amicon(?) monkey face!!

I don't know but when I look in the mirror, I'm looking more and more like my monkey-face :lol:

Peaches, I hope your pain goes away quickly.

I hope nobody involved ever has another minute's peace as long as they are taking in oxygen on this earth.  I hope nightmares are the highlight of their very existence.

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In re-reading Satish's original statement as a witness, I did find where he says he and Deepak waited alone in Joran's apartment while Joran went to the "Big House" to print out his homework.  This would eliminate the computer in Joran's apartment or at least the printer there as I had thought existed.

This does surprise me for I would think three boys and one computer would make for very contentious household.  Maybe that explains some of the fighting.   :roll:   Don't think that would have worked at my house, at least not very well.

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Anna, I agree w/ the 1 computer. From what we've read/heard re: the spending $$ of the vds household it seems odd only 1 computer in a houshold of 5 w/ 3 being "students".

Also re: sc story to grandmom. who here would even entertain the idea that he would tell his Gram any true story especially of his evening whereabouts!

:roll:  I am not going to hold my breath for 2 weeks (ugh) for SOMETHING TO HAPPEN. We have been told so many times.....a month from now, a week from now.....etc. I do still hold out hope that someone who KNOWS WHAT REALLY happened will come out and speak. We all want real, TRUE answers. Hard to get truth after so many lies from SO MANY involved in this. Carry on........I will be here waiting.

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NM,
It's not that he told his grandmother so much but that he evidently also told ALE that story.  I think that may be what got him arrested as much as his showing up too late with his HI witness version.

If you put the two together, this is odd behavior for a person totally uninvolved.  But all we have now are what somebody said.  With statements coming out so fast, perhaps it will be verified which version of how he spent his evening one way or the other or even the third for this gives his hearing the scream, being on duty on the Tattoo and being at C&C more or less at the same time.

He is a very strange person to say the least.

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He is a loser in life.  Anyone who comes forward to tell a story like that is involved in what happened in some way.

I don't believe that was GVC, or that whoeever it was punched her.

I've often wondered what the priest at St. Ana Roman Catholic Church at Noord must think/know. Surely he has an opinion. Isn't that where Freddy served as an acolyte ? And isn't that close by the Sloot Compound ? I've always wondered if that photo of Freddy at the Sloot dining table was taken after a church service wherein he served.

O/T - BAHAMIAN OFFICIALS INVESTIGATING DEATH OF ANNA NICOLE SMITH’S 20-YEAR-OLD SON SAY HIS DEATH IS 'SUSPICIOUS'.

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com for more

So Joran has no problem trampling through the main house in the middle of the night, running a printer making all kinds of noise but wouldnt take Natalee back to his apartment in a seperate building because he was afraid to wake someone up.

I agree with you.  This whole thing is just another bunch of BS

I've often wondered if this is indeed the same priest that Dave H tried to meet with, and then the priest refused to?

Not only that, but there is an art teacher and an attorney ( who also taught -- didn't Arlene say he had taught her in a law class?) also living there and it doesn't ring true or make sense that there is only ONE computer serving all.

I'm thinking it must be.

Anna wrote;


Anna, I am sure you are right. I think his alibi stories are a bunch of bunk. I think he was scared $hitle$$ at the time and still is (look at any recent pics of him and see for yourself.....looks like the dude hasn't been sober in.....15 months).

Here ,is an article that says SCwas detained due to testimony of one of the three which is probably closer to the truth. One of the 3 probably stated that SC was indeed at C+C's and/or the after-party.......


Police Superintendent Jan van der Straaten told The Associated Press Croes was detained based on information from one of the other three detainees.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159970,00.html

Imagine that.  Here is a man desperately searching for his missing daughter and wanted to meet with a priest and being refused.  The priest would rather meet with a killer then meet with a grieving father.

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/gummy_2006/compare.jpg)

Is that skinny pic of S Croes actually him or the guy who looks alot like him?

Klaas, do you have a pic of his look alike? TIA!!

This is the most recent photo we have seen of Steve Croes

http://www.diario-aruba.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=8

Sorry, been busy working on stuff.  The photo above that Hotshot posted is Steve C and not the look alike Quincy.

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Could we put the recent photo of Steve Croes beside his old one as it is now that he appears to be showing a bit of wear and tear.  Maybe crop just his head from the new photo?

I wish that logo were not on his face so we could see it better.  Where is Bonsai these days I wonder.

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Woudl that wear and tear come from all the drugs on that happy island ??

That's most likely it Sue.  Along with hard living, drugs and alcohol can definetely make a person appear much older then he/she really is.  Do we know if he smokes at all?  That could also be a factor...

He has put on some weight though.  But again...that's most likely a result of heavy alcohol consumption.  If he's a reafer smoker (the byproduct of which would be exaggerated eating habits), that could also explain the weight gain and age accelartion...

BTW...how is everyone today? ;)

Thanks Hotshot, Klaas, and BleachedBlack...I couldn't remember Quincey's name...

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To me, he no longer resembles either of those younger photos with the nice clear eyes and coloring and normal weight.

We can ony speculate as to what has happened to him and why but something very drastic has been going on with that boy!   :?

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(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d118/Sanddrops/Steve1.jpg)

  Glad you have a good  memory..LOL I knew they were one day apart.
Sorry YAP and EASY. guess we will celebrate again then.. OOPS!
I feel like an a$$... :(

Anna (and others following the "Dr. Tarlow" connection) - I mailed and emailed a 3-page letter to him today. I just posted it at the Murder & Crime thread. Here are a few excerpts:

<snip>


<snip>


<end excerpts>

Reminder to Monkeys to read & contribute to the Murder & Crime thread; thanks to all who have ... for a quick trip there, see my sig line.

Don't feel bad.  I had a birthday Sunday so I enjoyed your cake! :lol:

Happy belated birthday for your August B-day! :wink:

September 2, 2006
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SteveCroesSept.jpg)

September 8, 2006
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a398/vms58/SteveCroesMagic95.jpg)

  Aweeeeeeee CrazyMom Ang.. Happy Belated Bday sweety!
I am glad you enjoyed the cake..LOL  :) and TY too.. !

Hopefully I will visit more later.  Have to be at work in 10 minutes! BBL :wink:

WOW.. seems Koen and Steve sure packed on some pounds in a years time huh?  Makes me almost wanna look at my pics fomr last yr compared to this yr..LOL  YIKES!

Happy Birthday to those that have birthdays and hi to everyone else.. I guess were still waiting to see what the Dutch 'A' team looks like since we know what the Aruban 'F' troop looks..  Anything on the news stations on the case?

I will see you tomorrow, I'm playing tennis tonight so hopefully I will see you all tomorrow..  byeeeeeeee

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7004847799

Shooting at College in Montreal....

None, that is what I too have wondered.

PS.  Shizaru, if it was not GVC, who was it?

Somebody been eating steroids and tranquillizers without lifting weights.

I think I know what these pictures mean.  The first "It's this long."  

The second, "I wish it was this long."

Of course, we are talking about his memory, right?

KLASS...

have i told u lately that i love you?????
you are the best

thanks for all the time u put into keeping us all in line...lol

 :?: Thanks, but what did I do now??

nothing out of the ordinary...lol....

u r extraordinary....mrs. red told me so...lol :lol:

I quit smoking yesterday at 10 AM - cold turkey.   Nicotine is a terrible drug to be addicted to and the withdrawal symptons are so unpleasant; I could barely think straight this morning.  

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

GMA message board.
http://forums.go.com/abcnews/GMA/forum?start=0&forumID=7

Anna, these are 2 different stories.  The one posted a couple nights ago was about someone who heard a scream and saw 2 people dragging a woman on the beach.  That was the story that the maid at the Marriott told.

Obviously the story of hearing an argument on the beach is a different story altogether.  And that would be the Steve Croes story.  

Confusing b/c they are somewhat similar.

Leslie - good for you!

Thanks for the thought Angie, but I am putting my b-day off for a few more days and might just forget about it then! lol

 :lol:  :lol: Know what you mean Easy!  The older I get the more I want to forget about them..haha  :lol:

Yeah, I like to think of them as anniversaries.  This will be the 35th anniversary of my 20th birthday.

I have no idea.  Doesn't have to be anyone we've heard of, could have been some random guy who looks like GVC.  I just don't think it's likely that GVC would deny ever meeting Natalee if he had been involved in such a public altercation with her.  Altho I have a easier time believing that, then I do that whoever it was punched her in the face.  She has bo bruises in subsequent photos.  It's farfetched that a guy would punch a girl he doesn't know, in a public place where a couple dozen of her male classmates are present, just for not dancing with him.  And if he did the result would probably be him getting beaten up pretty badly, not a minor "scuffle".   And also it's an improbable coincidence that, assuming Natalee was killed by Joran, she would have been physically assaulted by two different Dutch guys angry at being turned down, in as many days.

Oh, wait, it's not your birthdays yet.  Well, darn, I will be gone then most likely anyway or forgotten.  You know I have that CRS disease.

Andre Santos looks like he's chubbed out too.

IOW, Easy, you will be 20 years old with 35 years experience.

Yeah, that's the way I see it! lol

For some reason this made me think of Aruba...  8)

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/dogchase.gif)

Went back through Dave's book looking for anything regarding a Catholic priest and finally found the reference ( it's not in his index ) ...It is in Chapter Eleven, entitled: "THE ONE HAPPY ISLAND" CONSPIRACY, beginning on page 177 and refers to the wooden cross, a foot and a half high, carved with "N.H."  into the wood with a rosary hanging from it  which he discovered located halfway between the Marriott and the Fisherman's Huts during his October 2005 visit.  On page 178 Dave says: " Later that afternoon, Art and I went to a Catholic Church to speak with the priest to see if he could tell us anything. We talked to his secretary, and she told us that the priest was in mass and we should come back the next day.  We made an appointment to come back, and the following afternoon, while we were eating, a group from AMERICA'S MOST WANTED came and interviewed us. Art and I were about to leave to meet with the priest when we received a phone call from Dompig saying that he had been contacted by the priest asking about why we wanted to meet with him. After that, the priest said he would not be available for the next three days. I would be gone by then. I did not think that to be a coincidence."

I wonder which Catholic priest was this ?

Cute!

Good Wednesday to you all.  Just passing through to say I have not forgotten this case nor any of you.  How are each and every one of you today?

Just perusing an old board and found this, interesting I thought as we look back at all that has happened.

"#41
AScheirer
June 10, 2005
08:24 PMAs a former member of sworn law enforcement community and a visitor to Aruba for eighteen plus years, I must comment that the Aruban police force would have a difficult time finding its
way out of a wet paper bag. Although it is nominally under the supervision of Dutch law enforcement authorities, its level of responsiveness/competence leaves much to be desired. I suspect that as with most tropical/equatorial police forces, they too have sucumbed to the warm weather and blue water. I do not hold much hope for an appropriate conclusion to this investigation as Aruba has closed ranks on this matter...and not withstanidng the incompetency of the local law enforcement officials (and I daresay, it is gross in nature), it is the hope and prayer of the elite segment of Aruba society that this matter be promptly swept "under the rug"."

From what we were told he groped Natalee and she shoved him.  She probably embarrassed him in front of his friends and he got pissed off and hit her.  I believe it is quite possible that he did hit her especially if this kid has problems.  These kids today don't care if they hit a girl or not.  Just the way Natalee's friends were there so was GVC's.  He has a reputation to uphold in front of his friends and that's why he might have hit her because they were laughing at him.

I would tend to agree with Shizaru here.  It's not logical to believe that someone would so adamantly deny ever meeting someone...especially in a case so publicly scrutinized...if he was involved in such an obvious, violent episode in the presence of so many witnesses.  But, then again...who knows.  The logical is often deemed illogical in Aruba... :roll:

Exactly.  This kid new he didn't have to answer any questions.  He knows the routine of the case.  After all daddy is the head of the security team.

Thank you for this, Frijole.  Now, seeing it, I remember trying to figure out if the writer was from within the group the suspects hung around with......

Hello, everyone.   Yap & Easy share same b-day with my SIL & Nephew, respectively.  

Good to see Tylergal back, sharp as a tack.  :wink:

Leslie, that means we quit on the same day. What a coinsidence! I wish you luck on this, it is very hard.

I actually quit smoking 26 months ago.  Cold turkey.  And, it wasn't even hard for me.  How?  Well, since we're on the (off) topic...

I was having a pre-op physical with my Dr.  She asked me if I had smoked, and how much.  Now, of course...everyone answers this questions by fibbing a little by way of decreasing the numbers, you know?  So, when I told her about 5-6 a day (which you could probably mutliply that by 2), she answered me by advising me she could tell because there were faint black spots on my chest x-ray sheet.  It wans't a big deal then, she said.  But, if I continued, it could develop into something.  Now, I'm too young to be worrying about black spots in my lungs.  So, I left the office...smoked one final cigarette, and that was it!  That was in July of 2004, and I have never relapsed...

Just thought I'd share...;)

Read the statements again:

Deepak and Satish are placing Steve Croes at Carlos & Charlies the late evening of May 29th:

Deepak declared:

"To your question as to where Steve was to have been able to see to see all of this, I can state the following. I didn't ask him where he was in order to have seen all of this. He also told me that he had not been into work that day. He instead had been at "Carlos & Charlies" and because of that he was in two minds about going to the police because he feared loosing his job."

Satish declared:

"According to my brother Steve had told him that he had dropped off people at the Holiday Inn on Monday May 30th at approximately 01.45 hours. My brother has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night. My brother also told me that Steve also had seen us coming out of Carlos & Charlies with the girl Natalee."

THIRD..   Congrats to you. I wish I could quit. My hubby did cold turkey 2 months ago. Now its my turn someday. I have to do it when I am ready and not be forced into like he trys to do to me.

Shell and Leslie
I wanna wish you good luck with that NO SMOKING  :D
I tried that once I was going to commit murder so I smoked again :cry:

That's why it finally worked for me Ang!  I had tried on numerous ocassions to quit for other people, but was never able to stick with it.  But, once I had decided I needed to quit for myself, it was a lot easier then you would think.  I believe that's the key.  You have to want to do it for yourself, and nobody else...

How you doin', BTW??

Ok, so the only computer is in the main house.  Joran is out all evening, has a few drinks, forgets most of the details of the 1:15 to 3:30 time frame, gets home, goes into the main house, checks sports scores, a porn site, then walks back to his apartment?  Neither Paulus nor his brother woke up when he came in and got on the computer, or when he left to go to his apartment.  They can't vouch for what time he was around.  Possible, but sure seems unlikely.  If his parents were anyone but Paulus and Anita, I'd say the parents would object to the porn, but I'd guess P&A are into it too.

Deepak and Satish are placing Steve Croes at Carlos & Charlies the late evening of May 29th:

Deepak declared:

"To your question as to where Steve was to have been able to see to see all of this, I can state the following. I didn't ask him where he was in order to have seen all of this. He also told me that he had not been into work that day. He instead had been at "Carlos & Charlies" and because of that he was in two minds about going to the police because he feared loosing his job."

Satish declared:

"According to my brother Steve had told him that he had dropped off people at the Holiday Inn on Monday May 30th at approximately 01.45 hours. My brother has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night. My brother also told me that Steve also had seen us coming out of Carlos & Charlies with the girl Natalee."


Joran declared:

On my question to Joran whether he can tell me what happened after the girl had fallen asleep on the beach near Fisherman's Hut, he answered:

“I called DEEPAK and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and did something to her.”

To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:
 
“I think that it was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut, for the rest I would not know either.”

My read is that Joran left the girl on the beach and one of the Kalpoes and "two dogs",  one of which could have been Croes then found her there. Explains alot.

 YEP I agree with you there.. gotta do it for yourself!
I am doing fine.. working alot. How about yourself?
How is ball coming along for you?

Interesting Spock...
Part of me though thinks they never went to the beach though.
I change my mind alot... in all honesty.

Steve Croes didn't give a false alibi "out of the blue" for people he didn't know on a night he was supposed to be at work. Steve placed his job in jeopardy (and was fired for it) for a reason and the likely reason is that he was involved. This theory also opens up the timeline by hours, the Kalpoes claim they were home sleeping until 11 am, and that allows lots of time to hide the evidence. Satish and Steve missed work work the next day and Deepak worked the closing shift at the internet cafe.

Shizaru, there are many theories to consider, you have yours and I have mine. None is better than the other, and both are speculative. We will just have to wait and see. This does make for good discussion.

Am I understanding this correctly? Steve C. tells him Grammy that while at his job he heard 3 boys (JK2) and a girl (Natalee) arguing? The fact is, Steve played hooky from work and went to C n C and saw the 3 amigos and Natalee? He also tells the police he saw the boys drop Natalee off at the HI? (I am so confused now)

Btw, the tap water today tastes weird! Has it always tasted like this, but my taste buds were dulled from smoking? I figured after a heart attack and now spots showing up on xrays, it is time for me to quit. I have attempted to quit over the past year and had relapses. Anyhow, I have made it 24 hours today.

Shell - I used to teach a stop smoking class at a big hospital, and I still remember some of the lessons from the class. One thing I remember is that nicotine paralyzes the cilia in the lungs. (Those are the little hairlike things that are supposed to clear impurities from the lungs, for anyone who doesn't know.) Nicotine also has a numbing effect on the senses of taste and smell. When you stop smoking all those body parts that have been numbed start to come to life again. Your lungs will start to clear out the tar and nicotine (and you will cough a lot for a while), and your senses of taste and smell become more acute.

Congratulations to you and good luck!!!! :D  :D

I am just thinking, if Steve was not at work like he should of been, and he didn't see them drop off Natalee at HI like he said he did, then just where was SC after closing time at CnC's? It sounds to me like he is the one who needs an alibi.

I was looking through today's BONDIA and ran accross this.  The initials L.V.R. jumped out at me.  We need to have Jossy or someone translate and look into this, IMO:
 :shock:   :shock:
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/LVRBondia091306.jpg)

My memory is probably hazy, but didn't Steve Croes have that night off, as the Tatoo didn't run on Sundays ?

Steve Croes was on "boat watch" and required to stay on the boat.

Yep, that's what I remember as well.  He was supposed to be staying on the Tattoo that night.

Remember he was later subsequently rapidly fired...maybe the reason was because he "abandoned ship" that particular night ?

Maybe The Tatoo Was Used For The Assault On Natalee ..........

I Remember In One Of Jorans Statements About The Shoes & The Marriot

He Said We Stepped Onto The * Then Paused * & He Said The Sand ...

You Step Onto A Boat .............

 :roll:

Right, San, I believe Beth commented on this around the time of the arrest of GVC, is that what you recall as well? She was told this happened on Friday night by the MB kids?  That is how I remember it and Joe Scarbrough did an entire show on this long ago stating wrongly that it was Joran and he hit Natalee.  Evidently at the least GVC shoved Natalee back.  And there was a fight broken up I believe by Bryan Reynolds.

Not sure on the last but I do think GVC made a very crude advance to Natalee and she pushed him away and he expressed anger in some manner back to her.  And it is per Beth.  Not sure if Dave mentions that in his book but will look later this evening.

.

Good luck to you, Shell!  You can do it!  I know it is hard but you just have to keep at it.  You are in charge.  If you've gone 1 day...don't go back!

Good luck to you!  I hope you get better!

There is no way Steve Croes works much.  Eighty percent of the photo albums I have searched on the Internet that had anything to do with Aruba contained his pictures and usually one of his friend, Jerry.  I was wondering if Jerry was the other dog, but then it might have been real dogs because there is some talk about that on some of the European sites.

.
If these "two dogs" were humans, you are telling me the High Commissioner of Police for the entire Island of Aruba did not even ask their names?  He just left it as an unknown, the presence of these two individuals?   :shock:

I was thinking the same thing Widget.  I'm just thinking out loud here.  It was said Joran took a 2 1/2 mile boat ride that night.  Could he have been dropped off at the tatoo.  Could he have taken Koen's boat to the tatoo.

Jerry Is A Carbon Copy Of The Police Sketch Of The Beach Stalker ...

 :roll:

Hiya Monkeys!!!

Klaas, I sure wish I could read pap  :shock:

Hi Angie!

Nice to see you!

Hi San Hope All Is Well With You .....

There is NO DOUBT Steve Croes Is Deeply Involved In Natalees Demise..

 :roll:

Hazy memory here too. I thought he was supposed to be an off duty but guarding it that night and had slept on a boat beside the tatoo.

And the "Tatoo" was moored off the beach, not at the dock. The only way for Croes to leave his job, was to take the launch, which puts him directly on the beach.  Remember, Croes was fired for leaving work that night. The "two dogs" does not mean canines, its a derogatory term.

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/normal_IMG_6502.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/SunFreak2/DrawingofAccosternearFishermansHuts.jpg)

What does the article say, Klass?

Pretty Darn Close ..........

The Hair Line , The Glasses , The Neck , The Lips ........

 :roll:

Thats about as close as you can get!

"Who let the dogs out"

That's not the red, white and blue shirt from the person dancing with Natalee at Carlos and Charlies is it?

Not So Fast My Good Friend ....

The Dutch Are Perverts .........

 :roll:

I don't know, Papiamento is hard to translate.  Something about drugs, $50, police and someone with the initials L.V.R.

MissinNat - no, the person that was dancing with Natalee was a MB kid.  This photo was taken in August.

No problem, Klass.  I just no you are such a great translator so you might know.  Thanks!

Ah...ok, I'm not the best detective. lol

I remember that Steve Croes was looked at. The Tatto was also looked at. The Tattoo is moored or whatever the nautical term is and there is a smaller boat that takes people out to the party boat.  
Steve was not at work and that is why he was fired.
But there were rumors that there was a Rave at the elusive Mr. LVR's house. And that is where Stevie was. This is just rumor, I don't think I ever read anything from the media.
Deepak's statement over the phone to Joran about I hit the jackpot was in reference to Steve coming forward and saying that he saw the HI dropoff.  
So, I don't know what really motivated Steve $$$$$$$$$$ to back up the bogus alibi.
After the arrests of the three, Steve was arrested as they assumed because of the lie, he had something to do with this.
Is this how LVR got dragged in ? Don't know.

Widget that drawing looks exactly like Jerry. Just like the casino video man looks just like PVDS. Seems the ALE are blind or Jerry & Paulus have identical twins on that rock.

Geez, I wish she would have stuck with the MB kids!  God bless ya, Nat.

 Hey there!  Nice to see you too! I am behind. :(  
Lurk lately.. seems I chase some away when I post.. LMAO!

Angie,

You don't chase anyone off.  You are one of the bestest monkeys!  You always have good things to contribute.  

We all luv you!

  Eeeekkk.. I never saw the sketch with the photo. sure looks like creepy Jerry IMO.

Thanks Missin.  lol

Wow.. cant get over  this sketch and this Jerry freak.

D: "He also told me that he had not been into work that day. He instead had been at "Carlos & Charlies" and because of that he was in two minds about going to the police because he feared loosing his job."

Seems clear to me Deepak is saying Croes told him he hadn't been at work because he was at CnCs.   There's nothing in that statement to indicate Deepak already knew Croes had been at CnCs, if he had.

S: "My brother has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night. My brother also told me that Steve also had seen us coming out of Carlos & Charlies with the girl Natalee."

Here Satish was just repeating what he had been told by Deepak.  Who in turn may, and probably was, just repeating what he had been told by Croes.    

Naither Kalpoe says in either statement that they saw Croes in CnCs.

As for Joran's "two dogs" statement, I think that's complete BS.  Of course it would have been helpful if VDStraaten had asked the obvious question, who were the two dogs.  Maybe he thought Joran literally meant two dogs.  But I don't think it matters since I don't think Deepak went back out to the beach with anyone, at least not while Joran was there.  I think either Joran killed her on the beach, or Joran raped her on the beach and then 2K went back and killed her after Joran left.

Hi Angie ............

Cigarettes Killed A Good Friend Of Mine Not So Long Ago ........

He Was Crossing The Street & Was Hit By A Tabaco Truck ........

Whats The Odds On That Small Island That There is Another Jerry ...

Lookalike & A Paulus Twin On Video .....

 :roll:

Steve Croes didn't give a false alibi "out of the blue" for people he didn't know on a night he was supposed to be at work. Steve placed his job in jeopardy (and was fired for it) for a reason and the likely reason is that he was involved. This theory also opens up the timeline by hours, the Kalpoes claim they were home sleeping until 11 am, and that allows lots of time to hide the evidence. Satish and Steve missed work work the next day and Deepak worked the closing shift at the internet cafe.

Shizaru, there are many theories to consider, you have yours and I have mine. None is better than the other, and both are speculative. We will just have to wait and see. This does make for good discussion.

 Hey Sweety~! Hope all is wel with you!  :)
I agree about the twins comment.. ACckkkk!
Hope you girls are doing fine !!!!  :)  Give them hugs!!

Spock wrote:



Absolutely true!

Hi Klaas ...........

If The Kalpoes Were The Culprits How Long Do You Think It Would Take For The Sloots To Drop A Dime On Them ..............

Everything After The Fact Has Been Orchestrated To Protect The Dutch ..

Phone Records Would Prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt That A Cover-Up

Started From Day 1 ............

Fat Chance Of Getting To See Phone Records In This Century ....

 :roll:

Joran is the culpret, IMO...maybe Paulus..maybe others as well.  I agree, if it were only K2 this would be over.

I Imagine That Paulus's Monday Morning Call To K.J. Went Like This ....

Hi Karin... Remember That Favor You Owed Me ......

Yeah .......

Well My Son Killed An American Tourist & We Have To Have A Diversion.

OK ...... What Do You Have In Mind .....

We Cant Pin It On His Friends Cause They Know He Killed Her ....

We Need Time To Get Rid Of All The Evidence & Her Body .......

Ok ...... I'll Be Right Over ............

Thats The Day The Alibis Were Put Into Motion .......

And The Black Dudes Became The Diversion ...........

 :roll:

I agree Widget.  Those phone records would blow the case apart.

That's it in a nutshell.

Just wanted to say hi!  I just got back from playing tennis and meeting a bunch of new people..  Anything on tv about Natalee?  Did we ever get news of who DT is or any of the other rumors out there?

Yes Klaas in your spare time, why have you not learned Pap?

Hey Guys!

No coverage tonight that I can find of Natalee.

Hey Widge....

What's the word baby?

Magic # is three..... :wink:

WOW I am convinced after reading the last couple pages that Jerry is the suspect in the sketch.  That comparison should be posted on the front page.  

I maintain that Arashi was the meeting place.  There were locals there the following night when Charles Croes went there at 2 in the morning.  I would be willing to bet there were other there as well on the previous night/ morning...

YEP

I agree that the sketch looks just like Jerry.  He may have even sat with the sketch artist while it was being drawn  :wink:

 :lol:  :lol:

San,why is that cute little chimp trying to shoot the pretty butterflies?

I'm making a joke but I'm actually serious.  What if that sketch was BS and it actually was a sketch of Jerry.

I agree, Shizaru.  J2K also have said there were only about 60 people at CnC's that night.  Both Deepak & Satish claimed they wandered around inside the bar.  One would think they would have recognized SC, especially Deepak, if SC had been in the Cyberzone prior to that evening. Let's not forget that SC worked as a DJ on the Tatoo and probably other places as well.  They would have recognized him if he was there when they were there.  Afterall, SC claimed he recognized them and saw them walk out with Natalee.

Nothing would surprise me klaas.

Hello everyone!  Hope all are doing well...

Shizaru wrote:

 "I think either Joran killed her on the beach, or Joran raped her on the beach and then 2K went back and killed her after Joran left"

I agree Joran is deeply involved, so are the Kalpoes, and so it appears is Steve Croes and another "dog". In my opinion, Joran did far more than finger the girl who kept passing out and "could not be awakened after going into the water". Also, Croes gave that alibi for a reason and not "simply out of the blue".  He was fired from the Tatoo for leaving the boat that night, and told Deepak he was at C&C that night.  Satish, also confirmed the story. A return visit to the beach by Deepak and the "dogs" opens up the timeline by several hours and provides an oportunity with a boat to dispose of the evidence. I do believe there is considerable truth in Jorans declaration as he was crying (expressing involuntary remorse) and visibly distressed during the admission:

"I called DEEPAK and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and did something to her.”  
“I think that it was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut, for the rest I would not know either.”

I want to be careful here. This is all in my opinion and based on limited facts and speculation. Other theories could be equally consistent.

Evening monkeys. I see we have solved a crime for Aruba...too bad the ALE isn't as smart as the monkeys....did you hear that Aruba?  We know who the guy is in the sketch.   Yoo Hoo!!!  Aruba???  Are you listening?  Get your head out of that corn flakes box! :roll:

where did everyone go??? I took a bath and washed my feet.  I even brushed my teeth.  :roll:

I saw the pic as I scrolled down, saw the sketch and exclaimed "Oh my goodness!"   Are we sending this to Jossy or Greta?

Hey Lala's!!  How've you been??

I've always thought the sketch wasn't really of anyone...more of a way to draw attention away from the theory of the (3) main suspects by way of an alternate suspicion.  

Are we now of the belief that as late as it was posted, it's an actual, legitimate composite sketch of an actual suspect...thus implying actual poilce work being done on Aruba?  I'm shocked... :roll:  :wink:

Do you mean you only washed your feet in the bath :lol:

The sketch resembles Jerry, but I believe is not of Jerry.  In the sketch, the perp has a longer straighter nose, where Jerry is pug nosed.  Jerry is to say the least chubby, where the sketch is of a big man, not a chubby one.  Is Jerry perverted enough to be the perp, who knows?  I think Jerry could be a mean "dog" though.

Very Funny!!!  Where is that book?

Since we've been discussing Steve Croes and his probably not so innocent involvement in this case - does anyone remember the story/rumors of Steve being a drug dealer connected to the mob?

Hi Mr. Purple.  I am good.  I have pencils so behave yourself. I am in a bad mood.  :roll:

If that isn't Jerry in the sketch he best be changing his looks.  Maybe they paid him to sit for the sketch artist.  Sure resembles him to me.

Oh please Lala's not that dreaded book.  Besides I hid your pencils.

Hello to all.  It’s been a long time.  I hope everyone is doing well.

Here is a free-version of the choller incident that was narrated in Bondia.  I don’t speak Papiamento, so Arubans, please don’t be offended by any mistakes I may have made.  I too wish Getagrip was around.


Choller throws man down and mugs him

Saint Nicholas- Monday 3:30 AM a man born in The Netherlands went to San Nicholas to tell the police that he had been mugged by a choller.  He said that he parked his car bear a house under construction and asked the keeper of the site to watch his car.  Afterwards, he walked to Jan  Steen Street.  A man got close and asked him for a smoke.  He gave him one.  At once the man attacked him from behind throwing him to the floor, taking 50 Florins from his coat (jacket).  The guard let the police know that the Billinghurse choller committed the act.  The police looked in the neighborhood, but did not run into Billinghurse.  R made a complaint so that the Police continue with the investigation.

I don't remember that story SunFreak but I do believe Steve is a drug dealer.  JMO.

I remember discussion that he could have been the guy that supplied the drugs for the parties. Is that what you are talking about?

Bet Jerry Visited Steve In Jail ..........

You Could Be Right ..........

 :roll:

Thank you Stom.

San
I  started a new page...just for you. :wink:

OT

I went to http://www.myheritage.com/ and you upload a photo of yourself and it finds someone famous that you look like and then post both your photo and their's..  It said that I was an 80% match of Oded Fehr and I have a clean shaven face.  I guess it was my eyes and face..  Its fun..

Good I like have the whole page to myself.

One Has To Wonder Why Steve Croes Is'nt In Jail ............

Oh I Forgot Just Another Witness Not Sworn In...........

Seems Karin Janssen Does'nt Like Swearing In Witnesses ............

ON PURPOSE ...................

 :roll:

I get the feeling you are picking on me.  :roll:  :lol:

Hmmm....I'll see if I can find the story. BRB.

  LOL
And Lalas.. here is a Slugger for you!
(http://bestsmileys.com/hitting/2.gif)

I am going to bed. nNght all and HUGS TO NEMO~!!!!!!!!!

Good evening, Monkeys ~ what's up?

  Hi Terry and nights~!  That sounds like a fun link!  TY!

Thanks Terry .............

It Said I Was A Match For ..............

Rin Tin Tin ..............

 8)

Cool, but who is Oded Fehr. You must be more famous. Becasue I never heard of Oded. Who does JR look like ? Medusa. OOOOOHHHHH
I have an idea that I will execute tomorrow.

Thanks Stom - how are you...long time no see!

My interest was in the intitials of the person, L.V.R. which is the same as Lorenzo Van Rijn.

Widget you were right from day one that it was Karin Janssen.  She was unwilling to do her job.  When the assistant prosecutor in the investigation comes to you and says Koen needs to be questioned and you totally ignore her request because you are protecting a friend's son or maybe a guy you are having an affair with is just disgraceful  She refused to investigate and took advantage of her position as a prosecutor.  She is in charge of the investigation.  She neglected her duties.  JMO.

Oh my gosh ~ it **IS** him!  Okies Monkeys...  I'm almost afraid to ask...  What is the new story?

Did Joran really leave Natalee on the beach ~ and Steve Croes came with 2 dogs ~ one of them being this Jerry guy ~ and **THEY** were the ones who killed her??????

I know I'm just coming in the middle (or the near end?) of this discussion, and jumping to conclusions....  But that really is a question...

If Joran and/or Paulus was not involved with Natalee's "disappearance," the K2 would be hanging from the dividi tree or whatever that ugly thing is and it would be over.  No way.  Joran and his evil father are the culprits but the K2 know something that has kept them from swinging.  IT WAS NO ACCIDENT.  If it had been an accident, Paulus in all his knowledge of the law and being a medical officer at the hospital, would have taken her there, had her treated, or pronounced dead, and apologies would have been made to her family and she would be resting in Birmingham right now.  No, the body would be their best witness if it was an accident, regardless of what anyone says.  Bodies do not lie.  She could have proved the innocence or guilt of anyone involved, the reason they "disappeared" the body.

I agree 1000% Tyler.

O/T
Thanks for the "fun" link, Terry ~ I saw this once before ~ but never had a chance to do it because of using Safari...  from a Monkey tip yesterdayI'm going to download Foxfire...  which is also the browser that MyHeritage" site recommends for Macs...

Hi Tyler .............

EXACTLY .................

 :roll:

Ok, so the JR idea is no good. It is specific to human faces.
Oh well.......

I haven't located the Steve Croes story but ran accross this:

-failure to search all of the properties of all of the suspects (such as Lorenzo van der Sloot van Rijn's Barcadera ranch house, which we know now is a drug lab thanks to PIs),

Yesterday, we were discussing the container port in Barcadera!

Is there a remote possibility that the drug link is so powerful ~ seems drugs *IS* Aruba's economy ~ that the cover-up was done for this reason alone...

Dang...  Joran saying that he was the last one with her....  

I just can't see him being innocent...

 :shock:

What is with all the finger signs in those pimps pictures?  It looks disgusting.

And when is Holland going to start the "brand new investigation???"  The END of this month............

Hi Katz .........

95 % Of All Cases Shows That The Last One To Be Seen With ..........

A Murdered Person, Or A Missing Person Is The One Responsible For ...

Said Person ............In Jorans Case Its 100 % SURE .............

 8)

The Top Photo Has Steve Showing His Audience The Size of His ......

DINGHY ..........

 :roll:

If memory serves, Dave said either in the book or on TV, that he knew who this beach predator was, that he had the tag number, etc., for ALE and they did nothing about it.

You are correct Tyler.  Dave did mention it on TV.

Spock, some of those pictures you have enhanced, appear to look more like dead dogs than human.  Do you think there might have actually been dogs there?  No, I know no one agrees, but I do think it was meant to be canines, and not "sorry people."  I really think this plays right in with what I see some of the Europeans searching for when they come to this site.  I watched that site meter for months now and I have seen searches of "girls having sex with dogs" many times, and I believe they were talking about "dogs" as in animals.

Hey Widget!  How's it going?  And yeah ~ Joran not only admitted to being the last one SEEN with Natalee ~ he SAID that he was "THE LAST ONE **WITH** HER...  

Freudian slip....  ya think?

I've been playing around with animations tonight and managed to create a simple animation to show how I feel about Server Pronto, the server that runs the forum that has caused us so many problems in the past.

 :lol:  :lol:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/klaasend/error500-copy3.gif)

O/T - -- Former Texas Gov. Ann Richards, a nationally known Democrat who lost the '94 gubernatorial race to George W. Bush, has died at 73.

Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com

 :lol:  :lol: cute, Widget ~ very cute!

The Dutch Also Like To Watch Sex With ........

Donkeys .......
Horses ........
Goats .......
Snakes ......
Fish .......

What A Sick Bunch ........

75 % Of The Population Are On Drugs .........

 :roll:

So ~ the sketch is bogus then?  And not really related to Natalee's demise?

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Widget, I think you and Anna are the only ones who agree with me on that (regards the Dutch).  I do believe it was she who pointed out to me that she too believed it was "dogs" in those containers.

.
I don't see Appeals on line to post this find herself but it is hers and not mine.  I posted it in full in the Murder and Crime Thread but think because of the Interpol connection it is also topical to the Lively Discussion as well.

Here is yet another example of Aruba concealing a murder as natural causes.  Thank goodness the family was able to verify via other means.  And note Interpol is now involved as well.  So Interpol has to know that there is a tendency to lie and conceal in Aruba.  This is just a classic Aruban cover up!  Again, Appeals found this and not me but I couldn't wait to share it because Interpol has been involved in this.  That means they know they lie on One Happy and Crime-Free Island.


February, 2006, Murder in Aruba of Bernard Ramsaran


FULL STORY

Interpol agents on murder case
Richard Charan rcharan@trinidadexpress.com
Monday, March 20th 2006


Local homicide officers have contacted Interpol to help them find two men they hope can help solve the strange case of a Rio Claro man who was invited to the United States, but who ended up in Jamaica and died in Aruba.

An initial autopsy in Aruba on the body of Bernard Ramsaran, 59, concluded that he died of heart failure.

A second autopsy done at the request of his family found something more sinister - traumatic asphyxia - which indicated he was strangled.

Ramsaran's family declined to speak to the Daily Express yesterday.

However, investigators were told that in early February Ramsaran, of Agostini Road, Rio Claro, was contacted by a friend with whom he worked aboard a ship five years ago.

The friend reportedly offered Ramsaran a job in Texas. Ramsaran left the country, but on February 5, called his family from Jamaica to say he would be returning to Trinidad by sea.

On Carnival Sunday, a caller from Aruba contacted Ramsaran's family to say he had died and asked for two family members to come to the island to identify the body.

The family reported declined but an autopsy was done.

Ramsaran's body was returned to Trinidad on March 4, and an autopsy paid for by the family was done.

The finding was traumatic asphyxia and unnatural death.

The family reported the findings to police.

Ramsaran's body was found to have several marks of violence. He was buried on Saturday after a funeral at his home.

San Fernando Hom-icide Bureau officers are investigating.




http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=144399597




.

Klaas
Can you make me one that says "Tiaras Suck!" ?  :lol:

Well Lets Say The Dogs Are Animals ..........

There Is A Matress Supposedly Covered With Dogs Blood ..........

These Sick Kind Of People Would Film An Act Like This & Try To Sell It ..

To Either Sickos In Holland Or Denmark Who Produce 95 % of This SMUT.

 :roll:

Hi Lala's.  I am here to play LVR or SHANGO OR TANGO, OR SIMIAN PSYCHO.  You name it.

Good night, Sweet San.  I love you pistol-packing chimp.

You bet!

Nite San!

Good night, San.

Besitos, Widget.   :D

I did post on one of the photo threads that it looked for all the world to me like a big old Rottweiller smushed into those rocks.  Not the one that appears to be a tiny arm but the ones with black down in a crevice in the rocks.

And this was before Joran's gf posted a link to the sick photos of the girl with dogs.  They had to know we would see that.  Was it some sort of sick joke or what?  Why was that link there?

And I don't think bestiality is even illegal in those countries you mention.  Freedom of Speech, ya know.  Thank goodness we have cruelty to animals laws in this country that prevents this from being a "legitimate" business.

We are always looking for new theories and unfortunately that one fits as well as any other.  :?

JMO always.

Well, since it is slow this evening, I am going to post this for Joran, who says it takes a case or two of beer to make him drunk and we know what a liar he is, so this is just fair warning for him, and I think, hope and pray the last one applies to him in a very large way.

New liquor warning labels:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may leave you wondering what the hell
Happened to your bra and panties.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may make you think you are whispering when
You are not.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol is a major factor in dancing like a +++++.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may cause you to tell your friends over and
Over again that you love them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may cause you to think you can sing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may lead you to believe that ex-lovers are
Really dying for you to telephone them at four in the morning.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may make you think you can logically converse
With members of the opposite sex without spitting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,
Smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may lead you to think people are laughing
WITH you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may cause pregnancy.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WARNING:
The consumption of alcohol may be a major factor in getting your ass kicked

.
One more warning Tyler

The consumption of alcohol may cause you to look like Steve Croes.

 8)

Hi Tyler, Let's talk about LVR.  I would really like to see his statements.  I think he's the supplier for the entire island. Always have. He's also important because, even Bondia was afraid of him.

Tyler....lol... what it it with drunks and the telephone ?

Are we going to get a copy of his statement?  And I agree with you ~ I think he is too...

I missed all this, TG, I guess.  What pics of dogs on the rocks or in containers? And what were the other pics?

Lala's,  I think LVR had the party at his house.  We were told by someone that some of Natalee's clothing was found there.  He was taken in very early on in the investigation but had a witness.  Yah, all PIMPS will witness for one another.  I think there were people who posted right here at Monkeys who were at his house at a party that night, who came here to post and lead us in other directions.  There is a reason that he is well protected and I suspect has to do with the partying and drugs.

Oh ~ and did LVR give more than one statement ~ or did ALR only bother him once?

Do you think he may be THE supplier of drugs for the island ~ or maybe one removed from the top ~ and that's why the protection...

He is not Mr. Big but he is not Mr. Little.  I think he is pretty big, but not Mr. Big.   :wink:

Absolutely!  I think that is why Simian mentioned the party several times and the alibi for the party.  And that is why Shango says he can't be touched.  that is also why our good friend Bondia/Julia/ETC. would never, ever provide us with a photo.  Also, if you notice, even Jossy doesn't know or at the least is reluctant to talk about him. I think there is a reason.  I think that reason is fear. This guy has a house here and a house there.  His family is wealthy by Aruba standards.  Just looking at his house makes you go HMMMM!

Sunfreak, the pictures of the rocks, with the containers/bags, that some thought were human body parts, looks more like dog parts.  If you can access them, please look again and see what you think.

Amazing how this is tying in...

And, yeah, Tyler ~ I don't really think that he's *TOP* ~ but I think he's right up there...  Even Jossy reluctant...  hopefully, just publicly...

And yeah ~ just that one house gives me a clue...

Lorenzo's house is isolated down a straight road...that is unpaved...and guess what color it is?   JMO, of course. :wink:

I often tried to get Bondia to talk about him...never would.  She always sidestepped my questions about him.  Told me more than I wanted to know.  this guy lives on the island and she couldn't find him to take a picture of him?  Really!  I wasn't born yesterday! :roll:

Now, does anyone remember what Lorenzo's nickname was rumored to be?

I never heard that he had a nickname...  this one will be interesting....

Xtacy (sp)

I knew someone would remember it.  :wink:

.
And what two other last names is he rumored to use in The Netherlands?

.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


You guys knew I coudn't resist.  :wink:  :wink:

.
Sunfreak2,
Joran's blonde gf Fabianne had a link on her myspace or tickle site to a girl with dogs photos.  She took it down pronto when monkeys began to comment on it.  Many saw it before she did, however.  You can go down in the threads and see any of the still of the rock painting to see what looks like a big black dog to me.  The one by Spock has good stills of the photos from the vids.  The one with black streak down in crevice in the rock looks just like large black front leg of a dog to me.  Not the one that appears to show tiny little arm and hand of a human but the ones with the black in the rocks.

Just what I see but like looking at clouds I think we all see something different every time we look.  At least I do.

.

I wonder how old Lorenzo was when he first came to Aruba.  Had his mother married Paul van Rijn by then or did she meet and marry him on the island?

Well...  that figures!  :roll:

If Lorenzo is one of the top dogs on the island b/c of the drug dealing, AND he is Paulus's illegitimate son.....well.  Although, the house in Barcadera near the container port is suspicious.  I really think if LvR is so elusive he wouldn't live where he hold the parties do you?  The reports that the big house in the middle of nowhere is heavily fortified with security makes sense for a big drug dealer.  Lorenzo probably hosts the parties but doesn't attend them.  It is said that the succesful drug dealers don't partake of their own product.  His big house would be an ideal place to hide someone.  Now this would put the story at the opposite end of the island from what we've been thinking.  How would the gardener & the jogger witnesses play into this?  Also the cell phone triangulations, etc.?  

I still think the 3 not yet arrested suspects would be Koen, Sander & Alex G., though, b/c of their boat.

It's blowing me away how this is tying right in now that more is known...  I sure hope Shango/Simian are helping now...

....  think?

Who's talking now?

XTC = LVR
DNA = Paulus, Joran & Lorenzo all related.

Thanks, Anna.  Why would the Visibility team & ALE make such a big deal about a dead dog at the rocks?  Why would what happened there be so secretive if it was just a dog?  I mean the Aruban newspapers publish pictures of accident victims lying on the ground and dead bodies in trash piles.  The whole secrecy of what happened up there is so suspicious b/c of the timing with the confession, "Natalee is dead", & retraction of those statements.

There is a store front and place that sells porn type stuff in Aruba by the name of XTC or Xtacy, something similar.  Wonder if this is a facade for drug dealing ,and if this is owned by "my Renzo" (did I Hear SK here?)

Truly, I don't think Shango or Simian have done much to help this case.  If anything they have hindered it by not speaking up and standing for what is right.  Still, they may have very good reason to do so.  I have thought about Lorenzo about as much as I have thought about Shango. I like a good mystery.  Lorenzo's house is very fortified and I agree with Sunfreak that he most likely would not partake in the parties he gives.  He has other reasons to be elusive also, I am not sure what they might be at this time, but I do have my suspicions. As Tyler said, he is big, but not the BIG GUY.  Maybe he just works for the BIG GUY. :shock:

.
Why, indeed, Sunfreak.  

.

Dogs love the smell of blood and they will tear into it.  Makes you wonder if their blood was mixed with that of Natalee.  Could they have attacked her if she fought them off, or was it a Sloot owned dog when Natalee was trying to get away from that weird-o house, and their dogs attacked her.

Oh I forgot about "my Renzo".  Yes, I think I hear a faint cry from a land far away...India maybe?   Nope, it's just Michigan.  :lol:  :lol:

"Mary was not a virgin when she entered the maze."

Had she been raped before they took her to Renzo's?

.
And speaking of DNA and evidence that the world must never see, something bad happened, things that would shock the world.  Even the white plastic bag in the basin drain looks like a dog inside to me.  One in the rocks and one in the bag but as I said, I see things when looking at clouds sometimes.

Just thinking outside the box a little.  Trying to consider all aspects and anything that is remotely possible and fits with the few believed facts and timelines, etc.

.

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If Lorenzo used to work as a DJ would there be photos if we went far enough back in the DJ photos?

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Anna - I'm a little slow tonight. Could you please elaborate for me?

Tylergal - Could you elaborate too, please.  If dogs attacked and killed Natalee, that would be a tragic accident, but could alos be explained, and not warrant this huge cover-up.

Well, I don't think I need to elaborate if we are talking about beastiality.

Did you see my post to you about Joran's gh having the link to the girl having sex with dogs?  Possibly a new video theme as even the grade school boys were making the regular rape variety on their cell phones, etc. Too ordinary.  Something new and novel like maybe their own bestiality vid.

It is just a thought and since I don't really buy any particular theory at this time, just keep thinking of things that could have been.

.

Would that be the ultimate in porn videos to sell at the place that sells porn and "adult" items that is named XTC?

Yeah ~ good reason maybe like winding up dead...  and that might be it ~ works for the big guy ~ and that guy has direct connections to the Mob ~ or something like that...

If he just works for the big guy ~ he might be goofy enough to have attended the party ~ or not ~ because I do agree with SunFreak ~ but this is Aruba...  Even if he wasn't there ~ and if Natalee died from this party ~ and dogs ~ oh my gosh...  at his house...  THAT would be good reason for him to help dispose of her body...

And that makes perfect sense, Tyler...  the XTC ~ Lorenzo and DNA ~ Paulus, Joran and Lorenzo thought...

.
The Front Page is up but the comments section seems to not be working.  Guess this is related to the new server a notice is posted about there?

.

Red and Tom are in the middle of switching servers on the front page.  Looks like it got late and Tom wasn't able to finish.  Red has asked me not to Moderate/process posts on the front page until Tom finishes in the morning.

Well, you're not going to listen to him, are you??   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Just kidding!  That's a sign it is time for me to head to the Monkey Bunkey as I always get punchy right before going to sleep!

Goodnight, all. . . . . .

Nite Anna

Ughhhh, I didn't realize that was what y'all were discussing.  :shock:

Personally, I think that is a little too far out there, even for the PIMPS.  I think it was a combination of overdose & head trauma whether that was accidental or an assault.  Something "bad happened" and then the next night Paulus was surfing the net reading about it.

Well, now that I have everyone thinking again I need to get to bed.  Just ponder these thoughts. Why is Lorenzo so elusive? Is he really that powerful?  Does he know most of the dirty secrets on the island?  Who is his boss?  Does he assist in the money laundering business?  Does he assist in procuring drug runners to the island? Is his house located in an area where the movement of drugs would be easy?  Is there a special location in his house that films and distributes pornography?  How lucrative is that compared to drugs?  Why can't we get any pictures of Lorenzo?  Why is everyone so afraid of him?  Just thoughts from my weary mind.

Goodnight all...and sweet dreams.  SHHHHH!  Don't wake Nemo. :wink:

Exactly what I've been saying for over a year now!!  Why?

I don't know if you're right, but boy that's a good catch.  Smart!

I need to call it a night myself - have class tomorrow and need to get up at 5.

See you all later tomorrow!  Goodnight!

Sunfreak, I do not think it is that far out there for the Dutch or perhaps even Aruba.  If you had seen the things people were searching for (from the NL) in regard to Natalee, you would not think that it is too far out for them.  That is a drug-infested country where incest is rampant and occurs by the age of 12 in most cases, and a large percentage of the population participates, and beastiality is a form of entertainment.

Boy ~ this is not really a note anyone wants to go to bed on...  but, you're right, Tyler ~ nothing seems to be too far out there for these people...

::sigh::  good night everyone.

Well, I choose to stick my head in the sand then.  That is too perverted to even try to comprehend, especially to someone against their will and I'm not naive by any means. I just don't want to go there with THAT happening to Natalee.

Yes, Anna, I agree.  

Add that to the fact that Jordan's spending habits both at the casino and at C&C's, as reported by him are outrageous.  Then add in the fact that Paulus has money to procure lawyers for everyone on the island and it does not add up, imo.

Let's not forget Anita who is a school teacher and needs to keep current.  They must have to take a number to get on the darn thing.  No wonder the poor delicious sporter has to stay up late, that must be his time on the computer.

If Joran would stay in for a week, I think they would have enough money to buy computers to go around.   :roll:

after seeing what I saw on Joran's girlfriends friends website, I wonder about this.  Especially with all of the other dog references in this story including dogs blood on a matress, Joran killing his dog, etc..

The problem with this is people just cannot fathom it and prefer to just shut it out and not consider it.

Those movies/pictures have to come from somewhere and I just cannot comprehend a woman commiting such acts (as the ones I saw on that website) unless drugged and threatened beyond the point of reason.  Was that really a monkey that Beth heard in the background of that phone call?

I saw that website and reported it here.  Shortly afterwards, jorans girlfreind removed the link from her website and took down the pictures from aruba on her own website.

The website that had the dog sex pictures - it was on a website of a girl named Bridgette or Brigette not sure of the spelling.  It was MANY pictures of many different women performing every sex act you can think of with many different dogs.  Some of the pictures had improvised condoms on the dogs, others had nothing (bare). It made me so sick I had to close the webpage after maybe 10-15 seconds.  One thing I remember is some of those girls were good looking girls and I just dont see how they could do something like that without being drugged and threatened.

Good morning, Spunkeys!

San there is something for you in the testing section of the Monkey Lounge.

I remember following the links to several of FM's friends and there was a kinky them running through much of it.  I didn't have the nerve to click on that particular link, but do remember it being suggestive.

Hate to categorize people, but something is wrong with the young people in that part of the world and I think it has to do with dead brain cells and a complete lack of morality in their upbringing.

Guess what idiot c l i c k e d  on the link :shock:   And you are right Easy there is something wrong with the young people in that part of the world.

I think even FM realized that it is wrong because she took the pictures down pretty fast.  She might have thought it was a joke doing it but she got a rude awakening especially when she was monitority the SM board that day.  Could Joran have put her up to it?

Good Morning Monkeys!!!

Easy - I have to agree with you.  It seems as though there is NO moral fiber running thru these Kids.  The scary thing is that it IS kids.  My gosh.  With the pornography, rampant drinking, drugs and such, this place is going to implode.  It is bad enough now, but these KIDS are going to be the future of the island.    Looks like not much of a future.

How can these kids have any moral when you have parents like Paulus & Anita Van der Sloot raising them.

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

So true San - I cannot imagine my kids, or for that matter, any of the kids I know behaving in such a manner.  To me it is really sad, because they think this is normal.  Behavoir like this just goes on from generation to generation, getting worse each time.  And to top it off, the kids are going to see what the Pimps are getting away with and think it is cool.  All the more reason NEVER to go to that God forsaken island.

Good Morning.   What's new?

What the scary thing is now is that these kids are now her in the States (Koen, Sander, Freddy, etc.)

Hiya Peaches - I hope you are feeling better w/ that agrivating tooth!!!

Don't think there is anything really new... I sure wish something would break.

You don't have a home remedy for a cough do you?  I have been coughing my head off - my chest hurts from it.

Kimmy:  I always take honey for a cough.

There are no constraints in place on that island.  The failure runs through the whole sociological profile of the place.  No, or little parenting, law enforcement does nothing and apparently the church is useless.  Reading about the priest avoiding Dave Holloway just went all over me.  There was no where to turn on that freaking island.  Not even a church.

You good Catholics should contact the right people and let them know this guy in Aruba is not doing his job!!!!

Like just a teaspoon of it?  Or mixed with something?  I will try it though.  Anything to get this tickle out of my throat.

Good Morning Klaas,

Enjoy your day.

shhhhhh, I'm not really here, just lurking, lol  :lol:

Mums the word! :wink:

Kimmy, gargle warm water with salt in it.  Tastes nasty but will break up the congestion.  Drink lots of water.  It thins the secretions in the mucous membranes.  Mucinex, comes in a white bottle with blue letters, over the counter, is also good.  It breaks up the secretions as well and encourages you to hack it up.

Anyone in the mood for breakfast?   :shock:

Some people are so touchy!

Sorry for the OT comment to Kimmy.  I was just trying to help.

Okie Dokie - I will try that.  I have seen Mucinex advertised on tv.  I am at work, but can leave at lunch.  I'm gonna try Leslie's advise of honey.  I think my grandpa used to mix honey and rye - Heck, a trip to the liquor store might be an idea too! :lol:

Easy:  How about an omlet?  Is that what you had in mind?

Just kidding, you gave good advice to Kimmy.  It just kind of hit me as I was spreading some apple jelly on a piece of buttered toast.....  :wink:

At least you weren't having grits.... or biscuits and gravy......

or oatmeal...

Maltomeal?

My mother fixed oatmeal for her and her husband a few years ago.  He said he didn’t really care much for oatmeal, but that was okay.  Mom serves up the oatmeal and while she was getting the cream, sugar and cinnamon for the oatmeal, her hubby commenced to throw a pat of butter, salt and pepper on his bowl of oatmeal.  Mom took one look at that and said, “No wonder you don’t like oatmeal!” lol

I don’t like the stuff period, but I can do me some grits!

I posted this one on the Murder & Crime thread. dkpen (or anyone) - do we have more details about this? Interesting source cited.

Posted by dkpen at BFN:
Aruba Police rescue kidnapped sisters

Blackanthem.com, KIRKUK, Iraq, May 21, 2005

Aruba police successfully rescued two sisters, the victims of a kidnapping, on May 14. Police received information about the kidnapping and conducted a search of the area. Police located the women unharmed and took three men, including a brother of the women, into custody. Police charged two men with kidnapping, while the brother of the women faces kidnapping and murder charges. Police accuse him of killing his brother before taking his sisters hostage.

News Brief By 42nd Infantry Division PAO
http://www.blackanthem.com/TheAllies/2005052116.html

<end>

Good morning. Mosey on over to the Murder & Crime thread; several new posts. See my sig line for Express Link.  8)

msmarple - I am  :oops: embarassed to say I haven't checked your thread for a little while.  I just went back and read it... I must say - It gives me chills!!!!  How in the world - after reading this - can ANYONE in their right mind want to go there???????

I know that there is an area in Iraq called Aruba.  It looks like this story might be from Iraq.

Right you are, Chicago510!  Nice to see you.  When this story made the rounds last time, I believe we determined the story to be from the "other" Aruba.....in Iraq.

In that case, someone needs to bomb that place!  Hmmmmm, nevermind.....

Hi Peaches.  

I still stop by to check in on things every once in a while.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Aruba's "Deepthroat" will have some info to break the case.  I hope its not just another episode of false hope.  Eventually someone will talk.  They must be feeling the heat.

I think everyone was right about the Steve Croes photos.  He looks like he's had a rough year.

Here you go, Easy:

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/25qw28n_th.gif)(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/23mvp1e_th.jpg)(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/2gudqx4_th.jpg)(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/AnnaBlueSkies/211ncdu_th.jpg)

Chicago & Peaches -

Well of course that did occur to me, and I tried to LOCATE an Aruba in Iraq, but didn't turn one up. So I thought I would throw it out there for the monkeys interpretation.

Maybe it's a military nickname for an area?

The site had tidbits of information, including state-side, so ...

Kimmy - Scary, isn't it? Given what we know about the attitude there ... ("She'll probably turn up at C&Cs on Ladies Night ... ")

Anna - check your email at the addy you posted for me.

Based on everything else we know... it could just as easily happen in the othe Aruba!  If I didn't see that story before, I would have thought it was in the non-Iraq Aruba.

Good morning everyone! Today is the Unity Worldwide Day of Prayer...thousands of people will all be praying in a worldwide prayer chain!!

Chicago, so nice to see you. I often wonder how/where you are!!  :lol:  8)

That works for me except there seems to be a slight abnormality with those eggs?  What have those chickens been eating?  :lol:

I don't think that link was just an accident.  No, I am not suggesting that this is my #1 most likely theory of what happened to Natalee but in light of what has been said in the statements and the link and the constant references to dogs throughout as well as the total obsession with porn by the key suspects (not one but TWO screens in cars even) I just think it needs to be looked at and made a possibility.

I also wanted to let certain parties who leave their little rat droppings for us to find (and probably hoping to shock us) know that they can be just turned right around on them.  It is they who are posting the links to every perversion under the sun.

They need to know we will not shy away nor back down from them even when disgusted by their filth.

.
Yes, MsMarple, that story is from Iraq.  I suspect even neighborhoods have little local names and that country lacks modern-day mapping so it is difficult to find anything.  I have had trouble finding locale of folks deployed there right from the beginning.  No way to know what part of the country they really are in for they are not mapped well.

Replied to your email concerning Dr. Tarlow.

.

O/T

Anyone else get hooked on the Panda Cam MsMarple or Easy posted the link to? :D

I don't sleep well and when I wake in the middle of the night, I have to see if they are OK after the one in China smothered one of her twins.  :?

.

I'd like to know what the laws are about porn in Aruba.  I know that Holland is much more lax than the US, but does anyone have info on their laws - where's the line where porn become illegal?  The beastiality part really disgusts me.  I jokingly said a few weeks ago that we should stop pulling our punches and send in PETA.  If this is a common problem, I would alert them.  I don't like a lot of their super-aggressive tactics and don't agree with everything they advocate, but in cases like this, where a society condones and/or ignores it, they just might make a very public fuss.  Do we know if it's commonplace and do we have proof?

If anyone encounters any of these pictues, it should be sent to Julia and Jossy - throw in Amigoe.  Caption it Are Aruba Girls Easy?

I don't watch the panda cam, because I don't want to see any accidents.  All those hours of labor for that little biddy thing made me think of a picture sent me along with several more.

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/Porcupines.gif)

LilPuma,
They will deny it but it was not until 1998 that child porn was illegal in Holland.  This was done under international pressure from countries like the U.S. and the rest of the EU.  Well, part of the rest of the EU for the laws were the same for several other countries, there weren't any.  I would suspect that as long as the animal is not permanently physically harmed, there is no law about it at all.  Freedom of speech and all that.

As for how prevalent the problem is, you can just do a Google on any combination of words and get more responses than you can even imagine.  Do not click on any of them, however.  If you do They will proceed to then fill your email with solicitations to sites featuring every combination possible on the planet.  And some jerk signed me up for newsletter about some of them, too.  I sure hope I don't drop dead of a heart attack and my kids find that on my computer!   :roll:

I know what you are saying about PETA and wonder what the European version of that might be and if they would help in any way with this for it is terrible abuse of animals.  Sickos abound but I do believe it is legal along with prostitution.  The Kingdom of the Netherlands has only recently moved up from a Tier III to Tier I rating with our government because of human trafficking and all  manner of sleaze going on there.  Lots of the women in their huge Red Light district have said when interviewed away from there that they are being held against their will which I can well believe.  Many from the fall of the former Soviet Bloc countries.  Very poor and no where to go.

I found a website of a Dutch photographer a while ago.  I might have posted the link a while ago.  I went back there today and noticed that one of the picutres reminded me of the Digital Dub Deciples picture from the Aru-bay page.  It was a picture taken through a chain-link fence.

http://www.stock4u.nl

Go to his Aruba folder, then to the "Various" folder for the chain link fence.

Also go to the "City" folder for a picture of a house covered in Grafitti.  People have talked about a house that Lorenzo owned that was covered in Grafitti.  There's probably more than one house covered with Grafitti in Aruba though.

It has some good pictures of some of the areas that tourists would never go.  I'm going to see if this guy has more pictures on other websites.  I think he's a freelance photographer.  The pictures don't really have a lot to do with Natalee.  But for people who have never been to Aruba, it gives them a better picture in their head when we talk about certain areas of Aruba.

.
Good to see Chicago _510!

O/T

Easy, those are just too cute!  And each day that passes the Panda is less likely to have an accident as the baby should be getting large enough to wiggle and let her know is she is lying on him.  Some breeds of dogs like bulldogs have problems like that as well.  Sometimes the puppies are just taken away from the mom except to feed them because they are notorious for lying on them.

Poor mama panda sleeps sitting up lots of the time.  When she does lie down she makes sure the baby is totally concealed for she just wraps completely around him.  I hope she cannot tell she is being watched.   :?

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Thanks for that link, Chicago.

Under landscape there is an interesting one Ghost which shows an abandoned apartment complex of some sort.  Strange.

.

Thanks, Chicago_510.  My sister & BIL went to Aruba in '03 or '04.  She described the airport runway ans bumpy and weedy, just as this guy's photos show.  When they were leaving, the take off was aborted abruptly.  They thought they were done for.  Turned out a pack of dogs ran across the runway.  Second attempt was successful.  That experience was something she could never forget.  

Of course, this has noting to do with Natalee, but does give credence to what I've been told.  

Good morning, all, btw.

Here is cute and a little more on topic.  :wink:

(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/EasyWriter/MonkeyLove.jpg)

Well - y'all have hit a nerve; I love pandas. Sorry to go off topic.

Baby pandas are blind for 2-3 months after birth. They don't start walking until after they can see. (I think the eyes are open, just don't see. I also think that's why they're staying indoors - out of bright sunlight.)

She bathed the baby right after birth in her mouth. Mama doesn't eat at all for several days after she gives birth. She nurses or holds the cub constantly.

I haven't checked yesterday or today, but they were waiting for her to get hungry enough to want to put the baby down and eat for awhile. Then they will grab the cub for a few minutes to get its weight and figure out whether it gets pink or blue booties.

The big development Tuesday was that the cub was beginning to get the distinctive black rings around its eyes.

The cubs are "babies" until about 2 1/2 years old - they nurse that long.

The cub that died in China was one of a set of twins. I am certain that the death was accidental, but although twins are not uncommon, the mother often abandons one of them. In a zoo setting, of course, the zoo takes care of "orphan."

There's a panda cam at the National Zoo in D.C. Their cub is just a little over a year old - and I've been watching it all this time. (That mama and baby are my PC "wallpaper" ... )

I remember the ride from the airport to our hotel was a little interesting.  The neighborhood near the airport isn't the greatest.  (But then again, the neighborhoods near airports in any city usually aren't the greatest.)  But I remember thinking "What did we get ourselves into?".  But once we go to our hotel, everything looked great.  Aruba has put a lot of money into the tourist areas, but unfortunately the areas outside of that aren't the greatest.  Its a very small island, it couldn't be that hard to keep it clean.

We loved Aruba when we went there (we went before Natalee).  But the more I look at it, there are plenty of other places to go.  There are a lot of places that I have not been and I think I'll check all of them off the list before I go back to Aruba.

And besides, we live in one of the best countries in the world.  I've been on road trips that have covered most of the U.S. and there aren't many countries that can compare to what we have here.

Nicely said Chicago.

When, exactly, is the peak tourist season?  I would think this is not, just from my travel experiences to island locations.   Also checked the weather there, today, and it doesn't look 'beachy'.   :wink:

 :lol:  :lol:

your turtle would be awfully lonely....

I have got to agree.  I have never traveled much, been to some of the US' beaches, been to the mountains, I've been to the Grand Canyon.  All that I have seen in my limited travels has been absolutely breathtaking.  And I have not seen 1/100th of things to see and experience.  I love watching the "travel channel" and one day hope to go to some of the destinations.  You could travel a lifetime in America and never see all it has to offer.

::blink::  I found yas!

I usually come in through the forum link on the front page...  it ain't there anymore!   :oops: Or maybe I missed it...

Good morning Monkeys!  What's the word?

Hey Kimmy!  Like you ~ I haven't traveled all that much ~ and most of my trips were in the US...  And that's the way I pretty much plan on keeping it...  for relaxation and beauty kind of trips anyway...  I'll only travel abroad if there's some particular thing that I want to see or do...

Beaches and stuff ~ we got 'em right here in the US...  mountains, forests...

And OT ~ I'm almost done with a scan of the "Rave" insert...  had to get it in 4 parts ~ it's together now...  I'll send ya a copy.... look for an email...

scaredmonkeys.net will bring you here, but, I just checked the front page at scaredmonkeys.com and still see the forum link...and it worked....Klassend did say that Tom would be working on the server switch again today though...so maybe that's why you didn't see it... :)

Good morning to you....it's afternoon here, of course.  Will check back later...have to get ready for a wake this afternoon...family friends' Dad passed after a long struggle w/cancer.  He's finally at peace.

Morning...or shal I say afternoon Monkeys!!!

Long time no see    :oops:

I do travel a lot...but my travels have only been to Mexico...fun fun....mexico and margaritas     :lol:

''Go Cowboys"" !!   8)

Boo...I have to run. I'll try to check back later    :(

Hello everyone!  :)

I know it...I hope we have a GREAT season.....  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Yeah...if you start Romo this week!!  ;)  Sorry...had to!

Back on-topic for me...

God bless you guys, NJ Mom...  I'll say a prayer for the repose of his soul and for peace, comfort and joy for all who are there.

Good morning, Strike ~ how are U?

I'm good Katz!!  Thanks!!  ;)  And you?  How you doing today?

I'm good, real good! Just getting in from early morning running around...  Hey Strike ~ want a picture?  Big or screen sized?

And it's really odd the stuff that was talked about on the board last night...  

Yeah, I know you think Lorenzo is an almost fabrication... But Lalas pointed out ~ it was probably Shango who posted something like ....  ummmm  XTC ~ DNA...  

And Tyler pointed out

XTC is said to be Lorenzo's nickname...  DNA ~ Paulus, Joran, Lorenzo...

And that "police sketch"  all makes ya go hummmm

And Anna posted something about Interpol investigating a case in Aruba where it is known that Aruba was covering things up...  Maybe Natalee will get justice after all...

Calling out to KLAAS

Help, I just blew the margins over on the murder and crime thread, page 5, could you fix me up please, pretty please?

Good morning everyone, how are you all?

Hi Appeals, I'm sure Klaas will fix it when she gets back.

Doing good, and how about U?

Yeah, I hear ya Katz!!  But, as you probably already know...I'm more of a "meat & potatoes" type of guy.  Don't really like to "stretch" the imagination in things that don't really require it...you know?  It's funny...often times when things seem pretty simple...they probably are.  And, for me...these (3) suspects are as deep as this thing gets.  Well, initially anyway.  Of course, it deepends once assistance is required (coverup and such).  But, the act itself was most likely comitted by those we all know...

As for "Shango"...well, you know how I feel about that mess.  If I wanted to solve riddles, I'd do a crossword puzzle, or watch the second season of "Lost" (I am a huge fan, BTW) on DVD.  Otherwise, it's not too fun when a family needs answers...

I am so sorry to hear of your friends father passing.  I know it will be difficult for them for a while.  You and the family have my condolences and prayers.

Of course you know I do.  Hit my email...;)

I think PETA does go international, but there's the WSPCA and the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW).   I do think some publicity about this - if we had pictures, websites, names to prove who they are and where they're from - would help; we need that to get the word out there.  That being said, I was randomly perusing MySpace profiles and noticed several young people referring to other people as "dogs".

Hi SAN, good to see you.  Is Klaas in class?

I'm using three heads this morning, trying to do research for the murder and crime thread; at work trying to pay attention to two other commissioners; and trying to get caught up reading here.  Wonder what else I could do at the same time  :lol:

I'm just great today Katz.  Glad you are here too.

I'm hearing ya too, Strike...  And I agree ~ and the majority of police investigations will play out in that way too...

I'm still very skeptical about the taking her to a "party" idea...  and filming of dogs and stuff...

But there was a lot of dog blood and dog remains popping up around the time Natalee disappeared...

But, yes ~ I do agree with you ~ I'm still leaning towards the "simple" answer to what happened that night...

I'm still wanting to know who helped dispose of her body...  everything in me believes it was Lorenzo...  if only because he was the one who supplied the "PIMPS" with the drug that was dropped into Natalee's drink...

But I'm still open to listening to the different possibilities of what happened that night...  Something tells me that there are investigators who are looking/have looked into them too...

And yeah ~ I'm not thrilled with Shango/Simian either ~ for not being more straightforward in helping in this investigation.  Both should have gone to the authorities if they knew the answers...  But you know, Strike ~ who were they going to go to, ALE???  Not hardly ~ that's a joke...

Going to ALE with knowledge of what happened that night could have landed them both dead...

Yes she is in class Appeals.

 :oops: I forgot I had to get rid of the "folds" in the picture first...  was thinking I only had to clean up 1 edge when I asked ya...  so, it'll be a little while...

And yeah, Appeals  I know about having 3 different heads wagging all at the same time...  I'm here, in Photoshop, listening to music on the stereo I just set up last night, and thinking about photos that I have to shoot...  working angles in my head while I sit here....

And it's really cool seeing you again too!

Strike ~ what do U think the reason behind the police sketch...  it's such a close likeness that the guy, what's his name, Larry?  I forget...  could have sat there and posed for sketch artist!!!  The picture is **that** close a likeness!!!

I don't subscribe to the "dog" theory.  I too, think it was a simple thing that snowballed.  "Something bad happened" then, the cover-up.  Those involved just couldn't let the cat out of the bag, and resulting in even more cover up.  JMO.

I think the complications come about in the cover up - not the original crime itself.

http://tinyurl.com/g4flf

Link has a comparison of the composite sketch (Tracy Allen incident) and Steve Croes' friend "Jerry" - not sure if we have his last name. Quite a bit posted about this last night.

I believe it was a crime involving more than the three suspects.  Paulus is not only covering his a$$ he is covering for two sons.  I also believe Freddy and Jaime are prime suspects.

That's the direction I lean in too, Kimmy...  But ~ weirder and weirder stuff keeps popping up around these people ~ like the talk on the board about Joran's "new girlfriend" having pictures of bestiality up on her website until it was discussed on this board ~ then the page was pulled...

Maybe they were just baiting the Monkeys...  giving us another direction to look in...  something else to talk about...  but, maybe not...  maybe that's what they're into...

And I've said that before too...  I think it was a simple crime with a complicated cover-up...  and I think it's the people/person who helped dispose of her body that is being protected...  not the ones who killed her...

Thanks for that link, Ms.Marple!   :oops: Larry...  Jerry...  same difference...  that's who I meant!  Thanks for knowing!

Have to take my lunch now.  BBL.

Before I go, hi to LilPuma and Kimmy and Strike if I didn't say hi already and to anybody I overlooked but not intentionally and I don't ever make run-on sentences :P

I lean toward it being the 3 main suspects who killed her ~ but wouldn't be surprised if the crime were actually the most far out theory discussed here, either...

And I think the cover-up is what is big...  both covering those who helped in it ~ and also was done to protect the one who disposed of her body...  And ya'll know I think it was Lorenzo...

And I think he's one or 2 removed from the "Top" of the drug underworld...  and that's where his protection comes from...

He's too well hidden for me to forget about him...  His house too well guarded...  his easy accessibility to the water...  that's big time...  I think he's the one...

Could Joran have "asked" Koen for help first...  and Paulus arranged for Lorenzo to do it ~ because he wanted it done right?

That's why I put these things " ~ " in... to keep run-on sentences from happening in my posts!   :D  :wink:  :lol:

Ohhh Appeals!! Hey to you too.  I too, have to multi-multi task.  Don't know what I would do if I only had one thing to do at a time.  Have a good lunch!

Just got back from class - fixed it  :wink:

How are you liking class Klaas?  Is this a first for you, or have you done it in the past?

Hey Monkeys... been a busy week... I have missed y'all.... and this switch is going to be great once it's finished... exciting stuff...

and San, I agree there are more involved even if only from a "distance" than just the 3...

Hi Mrs. Red!  Good seeing you ~ and the new look of the front page is great!  Pass it on ~ okies!  :wink:

Do you mind explaining what you mean by, "there are more involved even if only from a "distance" than just the 3..."

I mean that yes, the three are the guilty ones, IMO, but there are more involved than just them... and from a distance I mean like helping to hide Natalee's body, or film the rape that sort of thing... I do think that Freddy filmed it...

Klaas - Another fix needed on page 5 of the Murder & Crime thread.

Please delete two of my posts, one right after the other, posted at 4:56 a.m. and 11:40 a.m. Turns out there is an "Aruba" in Iraq ...  :?

I'm loving it.  It's the first time I've tought a "real" class in a school.  I've headed up many training sessions in the workplace though.  It's great because the pay is pretty darn good and it's only 4 hours a day, 2 days a week.  Enough to get me out of the house for a while but not overwhelming.  I also do contract work for hospitals from home but that is part time as well.

Thanks for asking!

Klaasend do you have any peeping squirrels in your class?  They cheat you know, can't keep their eyes on their own paper..

Got them, I think  :wink:

Terryd - I didn't see any peeping squirrels in my class...could they be hiding?  :lol:

That's great!  How many students do you have?

Easy - only 10 students and they are all adults.  Very easy to manage.  Once I feel comfortable enough I'll have opportunities to substitute for other classes as well.

Thanks for explaining, Mrs. Red!  And yeah ~ I totally agree with the helping to hide Natalee's body part...  and filming the rape...  that's so far out... not that I'm disaggreeing with you...  but it's just so beyond what WE would think people would do...  am I explaining myself at all?

That's great Klaas.  I'm glad to hear you are enjoying your new job.

Once they know how good you are they are going to have you substitute every day :shock: .

Katz it is hard to believe that anyone films a rape.. but then again we see it happening in the class room on the island...

You are right Katz that it is beyond what we think people would do but you have to remember that this is Aruba and these people are not normal.  There was already a film circulating on the island of Joran with an underage girl and Freddy is the one who filmed it.

 :lol: Nope, can't do every day because I'm hired as a part time teacher.  There are different disignations so I can only work a certain amount of hours.

Sounds like a plan!  If they get out of line just make them read RU for 5 minutes.  That should put the fear of God in them! lol

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

 :lol:  :lol: They would probably report me to my director and get me fired for having them look at that filth  :lol:

Yeah, or go blind, or turn into stone or sumppin! lol

I know, Mrs. Red ~ seems that stuff goes on that is just out of the realm of what "normal" people would think happens...

And seemingly "normal" people are doing it!  That's what's so surprising!

Yeah, I know, San...  but at least that film is "normal" geez...  that word is getting too much of a work-out for something that's so relative...

But ~ I mean ~ 16 is underage ~ but lots of 16 year olds are already having sex...  but the stuff that Joran's "new girlfriend" had on her site ~ the stuff with animals ~ that kind of stuff is so far out there...

I almost wonder if she was baiting the Monkeys ~ or if it's really stuff that the crowd she runs with is into....  you know what I mean?

:lol: "stuff" popped up just a little bit too often in that post too!   :oops: Back to Photoshop ~ where at least in pictures it appears that I have a brain in this head of mine...

Katz I think the girl was younger than 16 I could be wrong.

I agree that the girl could have been baiting us.  But after Klaas posted her photo and link to her site and everyone clicked on the photos she must have realized what damage she did to herself in having those photos there.  I cannot believe she would be proud of something like that.  Shame on her.

I knew you could do it!  What would we ever do without you? (shudder, shudder)  TY

Hello everyone!!  Back from lunch...

Are we still discussing the "depths of involvement" theories??

Maybe someone can answer this for me...

Is the "film circulating" theory actual fact (I mean, has it been proven real), or is it Aruban "urban legend" as some of the alleged evidence in this case.

Just curious...

Geraldo Rivera was told about the film from a very good source on the island.

So "officially", it's only a rumor.  Probably true, but a rumor none-the-less.  Is that fair to say San?

The only thing I remember Geraldo saying on TV that there was a film circulating on the island.  I don't know if he has seen the film or his source has the film.  So if you want to believe it is a rumor that is your right.  I believe Geraldo.

Hi Mrs. Red.

I spent some time this morning looking at the Interpol site and many other crime related sites and it looks like filming rapes and child abuse of all kinds is the up and coming enterprise in the Caribbean as well as other parts of the world.  It is just unbelievable and horrible.

I do remember hearing it from Geraldo on O'Reilly's show.  But, he did state it was reported...not that he was the one reporting it.  So, Geraldo's had not seen it, but was rather told of it's existence.  Is that correct?

The point I'm trying to make is sometimes when rumor is mistaken for fact, it can divert belief...which often times alters fact...which in turn compromises what has actually been established as true, tangible evidence.  I think sometimes people tend to give the intelligence of the main suspects in this case far too much credit by way of complexities in their involvement.  Most times less is more...

Again, simply my opinion...popular or otherwise...

Yeah ~ I don't know how old the girl was...  well...  I'm tall...  and kinda quiet...  when I was 13, I was hanging out with people 17...  and sometimes older...  so I can see how that filming could happen...  untrustworthy "friend" that girl had...

But, as far as the other...  what Joran's "new girlfriend" had up on her site...  thatstuff is sick...  and if that's something they're into ~ you'd think they'd be ashamed of themselves....  instead of broadcasting it...

Welcome back Strike!  I JUST finished!!!  My back is aching from bending over peering at the screen, retouching to get the crease marks out of the picture...

Not sure what's being talked about ~ I'm just surfacing again!  Phew!  :oops:

Hey Katz!!  Welcome back yourself...

I believe we were discussing the "depth of involvement" issue again.  I was arguing (peacefully, of course) that sometimes less is more, where as others were stating that they believe this case is more complex then that (mostly involving the possibility of the act being filmed)...

I am not sure which show Geraldo reported this on.  At the time Geraldo had his own show on Fox and he is the one who told Beth about Joran going to therapy for anger problems.

I do not give the suspects any credit for their intelligence and quite frankly I think they are quite stupid.  What gives these suspects credit for their intelligence is when you have grown men coaching them and altering their statements.  I'll give you a few names:

Paulus Van der Sloot - Judge in Training
Jan Van der Straaten - Chief of Police
Dennis Jacobs - Narcotics Detective
David Kock - Joran's Lawyer
Rudy Croes - Justice Minister

I see what you're saying, Strike...

One thing ~ discussing "rumor" again ~ because Geraldo never actually said that he "saw" that film ~ though I do believe that there is such a film ~ is ...

Maybe she is one of the girls who were going to come forward to ALE against Joran ~ but wound up not doing it...

Maybe because she agreed to make that film ~ or whatever ~ or wound up in it because of hanging out doing drugs with these guys and then couldn't stop what was happening....

Just a thought added to the "rumor"....

I agree with you San.  But, this is not unlike ANY criminal investigations done here in the US (using your clarification above).  All suspects are "coached" by their lawyers.  It's their legal right to be.  But, as you said...it's not very ethical to recive that coaching from members of the agencies in which you are being investigated.  That defeats the wntire purpose of the investigation itself...

I guess like I said earlier...I'm more of a "black & white" type of thinker when it comes to things like this.  Not too big on mass conspiracy theories, as it seems to soemtiems take the focus away from where it should have been placed from day one. Is this case complex??  Sure it is.  But, my beilefs are that they became complex after the fact.  The act itself is very simple to figure out, IMO...

I don't tend to conspiracy theories too readily either, but things like the following point to more than just a few lies by a few players.  Remember when Dompig made a big point of how they were monitoring all those boats the night Natalee disappeared?

"Boats On Parade In Aruba


By Meri Ulrich
Mar. 31, 2006

During his little show on "48 Hours", Gerald Dompig showed the audience some computer screens that are housed at the police department where he conducts his business. We saw boats being tracked and he claimed that those were the boats that were tracked on the night that Natalee Holloway disappeared. He showed that every single boat that came and went out of Aruba on that fateful night was tracked on that screen.
 
He lied.
 
On May 30th, 2005, Aruba had NO working tracking system in place. It didn't exist.
 
Raytheon Canada to Install Coastal Surveillance Radars in Dutch Caribbean
Posted 30-Nov-2005 03:10
Related stories: Americas - Other, Coastal & Littoral, Contracts - Awards, Europe - Other, Radars, Raytheon
Also on this day: 30-Nov-2005 »
 
Raytheon Canada won a contract valued at approximately $12 million (EUR 10 million) from the Royal Netherlands Navy and the Coast Guard of the Netherlands Antilles & Aruba (CGNA&A) to build an integrated coastal surveillance radar network on the islands of Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao, including long-term maintenance and training.

With respect to the system's purpose, and setup...

 
Ahh, Bonaire...
The system will enable the precision monitoring of marine traffic in the waters around the Dutch Caribbean. It will be used primarily for search and rescue and drug interdiction, but it will also help combat illegal immigration.

The baseline system consists of eight radar sites equipped with a single command and control center based at the CGNA&A's rescue and coordination center in Curacao. Each site is composed of a Raytheon Canada Marine Small Target Tracker, Terma SCANTER 2001 Radar from Terma of Denmark, plus wireless communications and physical infrastructure. The command and control center will be provided by HITT Traffic of The Netherlands.

 
SCANTER 2100
Though radars were not mentioned as a key component in Canada's aerospace strategy, Raytheon Canada has been an important Canadian player since the 1950s. The firm employs 1,400 people at multiple sites in Alberta, British Columbia, Nova Scotia and Ontario. Radar and traffic management systems make up a large portion of its offerings.

Please not the DATE of this article and you will see when the system was awarded to Raytheon. It was not installed back in May, 2005.

So what exactly did we see on Dompig's screen? Since the new system was not in place back in May, 2005 , we must have seen something a lot more recent then the night that Natalee disappeared. We saw those boats but they had nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

It was an impressive system that we were shown but we DID NOT see what happened on the night of May 30th, 2005 because the system didn't exist on Aruba on that night.

This should come as no surprise to anyone following this case because the Aruban authorities have become masters at spinning the truth to suit their own needs."

To me it looks like you're going for "What can be taken into court" type "black and white" evidence, Strike...  :wink: and I can respect that!

Okies ~ email being sent in a few minutes ~ I stopped to make a sandwich...  lunchtime before shooting those photos...

I can understand that Katz!  It's just...logically, one would think it'd be unlikely that there would have been a film made documenting a crime in which you could be jailed for.  I mean, I can see them making a sex tape with all parties consenting (it's still morally wrong, but I've been around the block a few times.  This wouldn't shock me like it would others in here).  But, you'd have to be stuck on stupid to make one in which the participant is resisting.  To me, that dosn't seem logical...even for the likes of those knuckleheads...

It's one thing to make mistakes like this when comitting a crime if you hadn't had any prior experience.  First time crininals get caught all the time for reasons which could have been easily avoided if they had only paid attention to detail.  But, these guys were well schooled in the "art" of "pulling" intoxicated tourists from a bar at closing time.  IMO, they would be more likely then not to make sure there wasn't any documented evidence which could come back to bite them later...

Thoughts?

Hello everyone!! That is an interesting find appeals!

I'm not so sure Dompig was involved in any of the cover-up...

In the beginning he sounded way too sincere about wanting to find and prosecute the killers...

And then he sound just too plain dumb ~ that I doubt the people that San listed would trust him...

Hi all.  Just stopping to test new avatar...testing....

Yea!  It worked!  Thanks Anna!

 :D

The only thought I can come up with on this matter, would be that they had given her a "date rape drug" and decided to film the sexual act, (not expecting her to die), hoping that she would have no memory of such event upon awakening....then, she goes home to the US, and the film gets distributed with no knowledge by the victom , that stuff has happened more than we would like to beleive

Hiya ti :wink: dy, that avatar is so cute and matches you screename perfectly!!

Id like to add, that if this was an option in happening, naturally they would have destroyed it because, something went wrong

Nothing like jumping into an ongoing conversation without any facts, but Geraldo did say there was such a tape and he and his brother had good contacts.  Also, when Freddy was arrested I thought it was because he was also either in the photos they had of the girl.  At least, that's how I remember it.  So yes, they are stupid enough to participate and be photographed in the act.  And I don't necessarily like Geraldo that much, but I believed it when he said there was a tape.  That is no more incredible than anything else seen in this case...IMHO.

Later!

tidycat

That's a possibility Elaine.  I didn't say I wasn't open to new ideas.  It's just sometimes I tend to believe the first story is the right one...you know?  And, from the very beginning, I had believed that they were responsible for her death, but it was not intentional.  From that point, I do believe the complexities in this case began (coverup, etc)...

Oh, and it's my humble understanding that just about 99% of everything we hear from Aruba is a rumor...right?
 :D

ooops, should've said , I am talking abot with Natalee! If they made a film with Naatlee....JMO , of course!

STRIKE, from Huff's Crime Blog, this one is for you:

"Locoman Pimp, For Real… or, No, Seriously, THANKS, Geraldo…
Saturday, August 27th, 2005

Remember this? It’s the blog entry I wrote on June 15, 2005, titled, Thanks, Geraldo.

In that blog entry, I wrote the following:

Because the inimitable Geraldo Rivera(...) dropped a little bomb about the dutch teen suspected of playing a role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway tonight on The O’Reilly Factor, I’m now getting hits from people googling “Joran Van Der Sloot” and “gangbang.”

That was the bomb; not that evidence pointing to Natalee’s location was found—at the moment it appears the most recent intensive search of a lover’s lane sort of area near the hotel where the girl was staying has turned up bupkis—but that Joran Van Der Sloot videotaped himself and a 14-year-old girl in a gangbang and sold it around the island…


At the time I was being kind of tongue-in-cheek about the thing, because a part of my own instinct about the story said it was a bit of a stretch… not that van der Sloot wouldn’t do such a thing, it just seemed so… lewd, and I didn’t want to personally inject such a note into my own weblogging about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway from the island of Aruba on the last night of May, 2005.

Yet two entries later, I wrote, Joran’s Young Ex, about evidence I found of Joran dating a girl that would have been considered underage on Aruba while they were both students at the International School—van der Sloot the equivalent to a junior, the girl in question a 7th grader. This story didn’t mean the rumor Geraldo repeated had legs, necessarily, but it made it seem a little more believable.


Now with the arrest of Locoman Pimp Freddy Arambatziz/Zedan, Geraldo Rivera’s seemingly ill-advised rumor sounds more likely than ever to have some basis in fact. So Geraldo, if you’re reading this, all props to you, man—you’ve been doing this sort of thing longer than I have.

Tonight on The Big Story Weekend it was reported that Freddy’s arrest may be connected with the making of a sexually-oriented video, with a girl who was underage, that Joran van der Sloot may have also been involved, and it was also intimated that Freddy may have taken part in either the drugging and raping or both of a young woman, just who that could have been not being specified, though the recent news of new allegations toward van der Sloot from girls on the island, when related to the timing of Freddy’s arrest, seem like more than mere coincidence.

Of course, on Geraldo’s own show, At Large, which began as I was writing this blog entry, Rivera introduced the show with his announcement that they now knew who Freddy was, and that they knew his arrest had something to do with a DVD and a 14-year-old. I know that at this point Fox News people have tracked down Freddy’s address, and have other information about him not easily gathered on the web, and I know from personal experience now how careful Geraldo and his producers really are about verifying the info they present.

In fact, Geraldo just presented the story proper this way; the Kalpoes and Freddy are alleged to have kidnapped, drugged, and raped a 14-year-old girl, in addition to the charges related to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Freddy is alleged to have marketed the recording in question of the 14-year-old, and participated in the making of the same. As to Natalee, no overt accusations or allegations have been made yet to connect Freddy Arambatziz to her disappearance, but it would seem things might be moving that way, and in an interview on Big Story Weekend earlier, Jug Twitty made it clear he believes Freddy does have some kind of connection to the events of the last night of May.

Here are the exact charges against Freddy Arambatziz, according to Vinda de Sousa:

Intentionally distributing sexual images of a minor.
Intercourse with an unconscious person.
Sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years."