Warning, the BS gets pretty deep in this one.
http://www.facebook.com/titolacle?sk=wallTito Laclequestion: if all air traffic activity is recorded as minister says, how come we have no records of a 'mistery flight' in may 2005 with a 'Holloway' passenger aboard?
19 hours ago · Share
22 people like this.
Renée Gielen Good question!
19 hours ago
Carl Gerold Gomez Where is Julian Assange when you need him??
19 hours ago · 2 people
Reymundo Kelly Hmmm...why indeed,very strange !!!
19 hours ago
Lilian Kock bai na universel aviation y nan si tin e record!!!
18 hours ago · 1 person
Renée Gielen @Lillian: the records disappeared!
18 hours ago
Lilian Kock Hhhhmm...straño ami a traha e vuelo ey e dia anochi ey.
18 hours ago · 1 person
Armandito Villasmil Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?
18 hours ago
Tito Lacle Tell me
18 hours ago
Lilian Kock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor18 hours ago
Armandito Villasmil In this day and age you google or check it out at Wikipedia... But it is based on the idea that "simpler theories are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones"
18 hours ago
Tito Lacle @ villasmil.. I know.. but wasnt in a place where I could google..
18 hours ago
Armandito Villasmil
18 hours ago
Margaret Wever @Lilian...e vuelo Holloway of e vuelo "dilemma Dec 30/31"
18 hours ago
Nancy Lemmers on a "need to know" basis .......
17 hours ago
Nicey Morgan @ Tito - Am sure all flights are recorded. Touch down/ Take off.
17 hours ago
Lilian Kock @ margaret.... tur dos
17 hours ago · 1 person
Margaret Wever @Lilian...what are the odds of that...abo a traha TUR dos vuelo? OMG. Ay no, suerte no ta companjabo...aunke, si bo tabata un part time reporter...WOW!
17 hours ago
Lilian Kock Hahahahhaha.....ja esey ta pasa ora bo ta den mundo di aviacion
17 hours ago · 1 person
Tito Lacle ok.. false alarm.. was referring to the return flight of natalee to the states..
17 hours ago · 1 person
Lilian Kock ja bo a bisa di Holloway bo no a specifica cu no tbt e mama bo tbt kiermen
17 hours ago
Sindhya Baerecke E pregunta ey parse mi.....martin riba e klabu....
17 hours ago
Lilian Kock hahaha@ Tito bo ta echt ta kere e vuelo ey a excisti???
17 hours ago
Margaret Wever hmmmmm....was there no flightplan for the place where that plane should/would have landed? is it easier to check than it has been checked? hmmmm
17 hours ago
Tito Lacle R u talking about the AA flight?
17 hours ago
Evelyne Wong U have seen A Few Good Man?
17 hours ago
Dilma Arends Geerman There are records, and I have seen the documents, and the PG also has copies of them, of a flight that left Aruba with an American girl, who left the island legally, but there is no record of her entering the island. The plane used, was a regular on the island, and since that departure nor the pilot nor the plane ever returned...So the flight left legally, and the people left legally as well. Just one did not enter the island legally....so, draw your own conclusions...
16 hours ago
Patrice Hawkins ???? she left under a different name????
15 hours ago · 1 person
Dilma Arends Geerman The name of the girl who left legally is known...who she really was, we don't....
14 hours ago
Maria Tromp different Minister, different (cover-up) procedures!
11 hours ago
Judella Werleman Damn...Holloway AGAIN??? Sick and tired of her..........y tur e alabansa cu nos ta duna e case aki !!!!
10 hours ago
Maria Tromp Sick of it ..si of no... solamente si tur cos sali na cla kk a pasa, Aruba lo stop di hanja e attencion relaciona cu e caso aki. Na tur esnan cu ta fada: "het zal je kind maar wezen".
10 hours ago
Tito Lacle maria and judella.. I hear you.. really..
10 hours ago
Maria Tromp Okido, Tito...
10 hours ago
Judella Werleman Mi ta compronde cu elo ta moeilijk pa un mama perde su jui: SI DI BERDAD E JUI TA PERDI. Paso un hende NO por desaparese asina ey, dus pami e ta un complot cu lo trese HOOOOPI problema pa jen di hende, dus ta mihor cu e tal Joran ey haya culpa, cu jen di otro hende haya culpa.
Y e promer culpabel ta e propio Nathalee cu a subi den auto cu hende cu e no echt conose.........pero segun mi e ta un setup di e familia mes y si NO ta asina mi ta hopi sorry pa e mama, pero STOP di CULPA ARUBA, SICK of that. Henter un isla no tin culpa di esey!!
manera Maria a bisa, different Minister, different (cover-up) procedures!
10 hours ago
Tito Lacle judella.. BINGOOOOOOOO
10 hours ago
Renée Gielen @Dilma, if tihis girl left legally but entered illegally, what did Immigration do upon her departure, not having an entry ticket?
10 hours ago
Dilma Arends Geerman I guess Mr. Pietersz should have the answer to that, right?
10 hours ago
Renée Gielen @Dilma:yep, indeed.....
@Judella: the bashing of Aruba was/is way out. The Alabama boycott was way out, the way Beth Holloway talked/talks about ALE is way out, so, what does that tell you? If we can put our finger on Natalee having left the island, the case is solved, the scapegoat is free for that and life can move on. Amen
10 hours ago
Vivian Wever I always entertained the theory that she left 'legally". Why? Because when her mother came to Aruba and went to Natalee's hotel room she stated: Natalee's passsport was neatly on a table. This statement bothered me. Usually girls or nobody for that mather leaves their passport on a table while they are still going out the night before. And most importantly: the passport is too obvious placed to confuse that she did NOT leave the island. While we know she could leave with another passport or ID. I dont think it is extremely difficult in the US to get false IDs. The passport always appeared "planted" to me. it was mentioned various times: she did NOT leave the island because her passport is here!!
8 hours ago
Vivian Wever Why has it never been disclosed whether there was a life insurance on Natalee. I heard a radio inverterview of the mother where she was asked about life insurance. She stated: I never closed a life insurance on Natalee! She did not say that there was no insurance.
8 hours ago
Vivian Wever Aruba should have high definiton cameras to record everyone who arrives and leaves the island, to prevent future scams.
8 hours ago
Tito Lacle good points Vivian
8 hours ago
Ricardo E. Yarzagaray @ Tito: except for the second case of Stefany Flores ..... "all things being equal...?"
8 hours ago
Renée Gielen @Vivian, as far as I know. 1. At the time it was not necessary to enter and leave Aruba with a passport, coming from US. However, all the kids had their passports with them, and as mentioned in documents, the chaperones held the passports. 2. If the chaperones held the passports, how come that Natalee's was on her bed? Maybe she needed it, because it is said that she withdrew money the day before she disappeared. And then, as I found out, she left the island with a different passport. And even that is not that strange, because she may have applied for an adult passport before she left, which left her with 2 passports. Can you still follow?
7 hours ago
Renée Gielen @Ricardo, In my opinion, based upon info, the moment the Holloway case is solved, the things leading to the Peru case will become very clear.
7 hours ago
Renée Gielen @Vivian, there was a rumor that Beth asked for a death certificate on june 10. But as I did/do not base my investigation on rumors, I did not pay attention to this. But, in may 07, Beth declared in a document, signed by an notary, that, based upon everything that happened, she could not conclude otherwise than that Natalee must be dead. And that is not a rumor!!!
There is so much more....
7 hours ago
Ricardo E. Yarzagaray @ Renee: Really!? Tell me more! BTW, there where only 4 chaperones for the 120 students. Check your facts.
7 hours ago
Renée Gielen @Ricardo, there were 6 or 7, not 4......facts!
7 hours ago
Ricardo E. Yarzagaray Maybe, but still to few. 1. Listen, you are trying, it would seem, to convince people that Joran is innocent but the fact is that he most probably murdered Flores and that makes the assumption of innocence very, very slim. 2. You also fail to acknowledge, it seems, to remember that big screw up of the trio Van der Straaten, Karin Janssen and Paulus Van der Sloot the (R.I.P.) with regard to the arrest of those two poor black security guards and -4.- trying to impede the lawyer Lejuez access to them while -5- at the same time NOT arresting the three suspects (Joran and the Kalpoe brothers) after they told LIES about dropping Natalee of at the Holiday Inn!! 6. That was very bad and indicates a cover up as well as rampant in fighting in the prosecution's office. 7. The memo of June 10 2005 (if I recall correctly) sent from the Court of Appeals in Willemstad forbidding any judge stationed in Aruba was not complete. It should of ALSO have forbidden any prosecutor (Karin Janssen) working in Aruba to touch that case since Paulus Van der Sloot worked for a very long time at the Attorney General's office (maybe you know exactly for how long?).
7 hours ago
Vivian Wever @ Renee: was this a notary in Aruba? She tought is was easy to get a death certificate in Aruba but this is not the case it is not easy.
7 hours ago
Renée Gielen @Ricardo, I have never tried to convince people that Joran is/would be innocent. Never ever. I have tried to convince people that there is a complete different side to this story. That is it.
I started investigating this case in june 05 ...(after TweeVandaag sent me to Aruba to make a report about the case and to interview Beth H.). More interviews followed for Dutch news stations.
Last month Antilliaans Dagblad as well as RNW interviewed me again about the case, there as well you can read my thoughts about the case.
@Vivian, no, this was an Alabama notary.
6 hours ago
Ricardo E. Yarzagaray @ Renee: Noted, however there is a thin line between "other side of the story" and bias. For this reason I summarized the most relevant highlights which in my view should indicate to anyone that after the Flores murder one should review and re-assess what went wrong ...... on all sides.
6 hours ago
Vivian Wever @ Ricardo: also consider that even in the US a lot of times it is not even permitted to bring another case in evidence in order not to bias a jury. Although it might seem difficult, every case has to be evaluated on its own merits/evidence. And up to now on the Aruba case there is not one iota of evidence to convict anyone or even to prove what crime was committed (if any).....
6 hours ago · 1 person
Renée Gielen @Ricardo, I am not biased, nor tunnelvionaired and Joran plays no role in the truth.
Nor does his late father, or Karin Jansen. That is what I found out, but we can agree to disagree. I investigated the US side of this story, and came to some shocking conclusions.
Sorry to sound stubborn. I would love to explain, maybe I can do a lecture on Aruba, with all mayor US media present.
This is all about trial by media, not by facts.
IMO It is the other way around, when the NH case will be solved, the Peru case will be much more clear. And the very important role of FBI as well.
6 hours ago
Ricardo E. Yarzagaray @ Vivian: The point is that the reason why there is no hard evidence or smoking gun in the Holloway case is because the prosecution dropped the ball with the whole world watching! For me the important part is that what happened here NEVER happens again. I'm referring to the "imperfect investigation" of course. Whatever happens now to the main suspect is not so relevant for Aruba anymore. That's what we call "poetic justice" or "Karma". Now, the "hot potatoe" is in the hands of the minister of foreign affairs of The Netherlands who doubles as the representative of foreign affairs of the Kingdom. Let them handle it.
6 hours ago
Ricardo E. Yarzagaray @ Renee: Maybe you should do the lecture in The Hague NOT in Aruba.
6 hours ago
Renée Gielen @Vivian, that is what I mean. This is even not about 'no body no case', it is about investigating. Under US pressure, Aruba did not investigate the American side of this story in the early days and from there on. This was obstructed by FBI who were there from moment one. And I don't mean that as an insult to Aruba, because I am still convinced that Aruba did what Aruba could do. Beth Holloway, however, with all respect, stated from the moment that she arrived on Aruba, that she did not want any local police interference. She made that very clear on different occasions. Why?
6 hours ago
Vivian Wever @ Ricardo: the reason that there is no evidence is not neceesarily related to the prosecution or the investigative team. In order to make any kind of conclusion we have to make assumptions and there is no guarantee that these assumptions are correct. There are plenty of other possibilities why no hard evidence was ever found. I have of course my thoughts on this matter just like everybody else has their opinion. However we look at it they are just assumptions
6 hours ago
Renée Gielen @Ricardo: why the Hague. The Hague was under pressure in june 2005 and made it very clear that this was an internal Aruban affair. Didn't they?
You won't hear from them.
But I read in Amigoe yesterday about the TGO on Aruba, created after my friend and collegue Poentje was killed. Wished that existed in 2005, then the case would have been solved. But everything in life is a learning process, as is this.
6 hours ago
Ricardo E. Yarzagaray Anybody that contents that the investigation was not prioritized by The Hague from day 1 is simply making a fool out of themselves. Wheter or not there was US pressure are questions that should be answered by The Hague since the US pressure would most probably be directed against Aruba but THROUGH The Hague!
6 hours ago
Vivian Wever Within 24 hours of the case I had already concluded that it would be a difficult unsolveable case. Why? Because it is highly unusual ( I follow a lot of true crime cases) that all the witnesses or last persons to be with the person who disappeared left the island, and could not be interviewed. What makes it even weirder it that these kids had graduated from high school so they were going to college. Having studied in college in the US myself I know that kids leave as far from their home as their parents can afford to go to college. So they would be scatterd allover the US. With the very limited means of our country and without knowing who they are they could not be interviewed.
6 hours ago
Vivian Wever I will leave it here as Tito might be getting upset that we are cluttering his wall!
6 hours ago · 1 person
Ricardo E. Yarzagaray Tito is loving every minute of this. LOL!
6 hours ago · 2 people
Tito Lacle Viv. How could I not have u on my wall! Such a classy one.
5 hours ago · 2 people
Ricardo E. Yarzagaray @Renee: Why The Hague? Really? You mean other than the obvious? Ok, lemmie give one angle; when Natalee went missing the Aruban born Attorney General was in Holland because of legal problems of her son so the only one 'at the helm' of the prosecutor's office in Aruba was Karin Jansen who was the head prosecutor (and good friend of the Van der Sloots?) stationed in Aruba for a 3 or 5 years, remember? Now, you can try and convince yourself about chain of command etc. but everybady knows about the bad blood and in fighting in the prosecutor's office. So, when Natalee went missing Karin Jansen 'did the damage' or do you think that she followed instructions of her 'boss', the attorney general Croes Fernandes Pedra? She got her orders from The Hague directly! Everybody knows that (except you maybe?). Maybe you are also oblivios to the fact that when the attorney general came back to Aruba after a week or so all freggin' hell broke lose in there. Remember? However, it was already too late.
@ Vivian: Yes, not being able to interview those students and their chaperones didn't help either.....to put it mildly....
about an hour ago