Natalee Case Discussion #708 12/28 - 12/30/07

[Lala'sMom]

Anna
I did not say anyone had a meltdown in particular..if you choose to think I was speaking of you then so be it.  I was just thinking what a mess it is every time anyone mentions anything about Lorenzo, but it's perfectly fine if you mention it...I don't like being in the middle here when I did not start this conversation from last night.  I know how you feel about Lorenzo as a suspect...but he was called in as a witness and that is a fact. I have no idea about what he did and did not do, but to  not even be able to talk about it is...well ridiculous.  I don't believe in those Aru Bay videos, but until now I have not ridiculed anyone that does or even said much about them.   Why are you being so nasty to me about this?  Why is it that some topics are off limits in here?  That is why I choose to discuss this in the Shango thread...I did not bring it over here last night.  Who determines what is appropriate to speak of and what is not?  I am tired of some things being off limits and others being fine to discuss.  If I don't agree on some things I just let it go.  This is about Natalee and if this helps in some way to find out the truth, then I say we discuss it...just like the shoes and the crematorium and Freddy and Koen and Guido and GVC and I could go on.  I think nothing should be off limits anymore...we are way past the point of being able to keep things to ourselves and think some body else will just discover it somehow.  If is ends up being a dead end...most of the time we find it and we put it to rest.  Until then, I think there should be no off limits topics.  But then again, I have been told I am one of the dumbest posters here and I guess that is true.  I am not as learned as some others and do not have the connections some do. I am here for Natalee and if Lorenzo is removed completely from the equation it certainly won't hurt my feelings. MOO

[Helen Back]

Lorenzo was questioned alot more than one time thats for sure. Also Jossy absolutely said Joran and Lorenzo are close and he confirmed they are brothers. I trust Jossy did his homework and has better contacts than most of us do. I am definitely not in the mood to argue about him and could care less what peoples individuals opinions are on him. Just sick of hearing the same thing over and over and over again about him when nothing new is added. I have read just as much as anybody has on him and had my own contacts in Aruba,I think I already shared my opinion on him yesterday so I will leave it at that.

Jossy, when I heard him said when he answered the question was : So we have been told. Or something like that. I have no sources in Aruba, only going by what I have read. I have not read everything, but I somehow do not think that he is involved in this at all and just had a minor role as he knew some of the others.

KatGram,

That is exactly right.  Jossy has never confirmed ANYTHING about Lorenzo other than he was questioned without prefacing it with the fact that it is a rumor.  I have listened to him every time he has been on Dana and tried to read everything he has posted and not once has he claimed to know for a fact much of anything about Lorenzo.

For one thing, no one would know who somebody's father is without a DNA test.  Only a fool would claim to know such a thing with no proof.

I will gladly concede and have already said that somebody somewhere could have called him XTC or whatever as there are too many nicknames to keep up with and everybody seems to have six or seven.  People I have talked to might not know every one that Lorenzo has ever been called, doubt even he does that.  They are big on nicknames.

And here it's called a meltdown if you don't believe he was personally and directly involved in some manner or other in the death and disposal of Natalee Holloway.  I don't see any difference in dragging people who were not involved into this under false assertions and in what the Refugees do.

All I ask for is proof. . . and if anybody has any, I have yet to see it.  Show me the proof and I will agree to his involvement but until I see any, so much as one shred, then I will not participate in the smearing of any and everybody on the island who catches somebody's eye.

You are also right that he was introduced into the fray by scubajap on RWV along with Theo von Loon as possible contacts Natalee had earlier in the week.  But the MB kids have confirmed to both Beth and Dave that Natalee took all her meals with the MB group.  Dave is at BFN in a Q&A session on the record with this long ago.  I doubt either one of them ever laid eyes on her.

.

I guess we don't have proof of anything regarding the suspects, except that they kidnapped Natalee, and lied in every instance regarding her disappearance.

Who is responsible for the LACK of proof/evidence?  The perpetrators of the cover up:

CORRUPT DUTCH  AND ARUBAN JUSTICE OFFICIALS AND CORRUPT DUTCH JUDGES.
THEY OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE


Dirty Pimpmeister of Injustice Rudy Croes
Dirty Judge Rick Smid
Dirty Judge Bob Wit
Dirty Ben (Voc)King
Dirty attorney and suspect Paulus Van Der Sloot
Dirty Prosecutor Karin Janssen

 
UNTIL THEY ARE INVESTIGATED, NO TRUTH WILL COME OUT


My opinion only

[mrs. red]

Just popping in to weigh in on something...

We don't all have to agree on Lorenzo.  OK?  Just because ANNA disagrees is no reason to attack her belief...... I mean I don't believe a lot of stuff we seem to take as fact, or some of us do...

I, for example, do not believe in any rave that night, I don't believe she made a call and I don't know if Lorenzo is involbed or not.   Jossy did say that he was rumored to be Joran's half brother... 

but hey I have heard so many rumors... up to and including that someone shot Natalee, that she was run over by one of them in the car, and of course the Dr. Phil fiasco that she is alive and kidnapped in Mexico....

I am not saying that we can't discuss his possible involvement but as far as we know it's not a fact... so everyone save the fighting about it for things that really matter like defending against those that only have harm in mind

[Observer]

I have been checking the ship blog for updates as I am wondering if they would not check their BEST targets first?

Or would they start out with the least likely and work up to the best tips they have?

I am thinking they would go to the best or most likely first but could have that all wrong as I know nothing about the procedure.   But have thought all day there might be some news.

Hard not to get excited and hopeful much as we know not to do that again about anything.  Ever.  Been too many disappointments already.

Kat Gram and I both have our facts straight, *******.  Jossy always says it is said or it's a rumor or people have said.

I was addressing that post to you and your wrong. I am not offering any opinion or fighting a broken record just making sure you understand the facts of exactly what he said and the two times Lorenzo was definetly questioned. You have said 1000 times now he is not involved and good for you for offering your opinion again and again. All I am doing is making sure the facts are correct,I do not argue with peoples opinions or what they speculate about only when they change the facts. I have never ever attacked anyone for there opinions or speculations,your wrong about that also. So I am defiently offended you complained that I am attacking posters once again for there opinions because I don't agree with them. Disgusting and a complete lie.

[mrs. red]

Let me clarify ...

Lorenzo is fine to discuss. 

[mrs. red]

Anna
I did not say anyone had a meltdown in particular..if you choose to think I was speaking of you then so be it.  I was just thinking what a mess it is every time anyone mentions anything about Lorenzo, but it's perfectly fine if you mention it...I don't like being in the middle here when I did not start this conversation from last night.  I know how you feel about Lorenzo as a suspect...but he was called in as a witness and that is a fact. I have no idea about what he did and did not do, but to  not even be able to talk about it is...well ridiculous.  I don't believe in those Aru Bay videos, but until now I have not ridiculed anyone that does or even said much about them.   Why are you being so nasty to me about this?  Why is it that some topics are off limits in here?  That is why I choose to discuss this in the Shango thread...I did not bring it over here last night.  Who determines what is appropriate to speak of and what is not?  I am tired of some things being off limits and others being fine to discuss.  If I don't agree on some things I just let it go.  This is about Natalee and if this helps in some way to find out the truth, then I say we discuss it...just like the shoes and the crematorium and Freddy and Koen and Guido and GVC and I could go on.  I think nothing should be off limits anymore...we are way past the point of being able to keep things to ourselves and think some body else will just discover it somehow.  If is ends up being a dead end...most of the time we find it and we put it to rest.  Until then, I think there should be no off limits topics.  But then again, I have been told I am one of the dumbest posters here and I guess that is true.  I am not as learned as some others and do not have the connections some do. I am here for Natalee and if Lorenzo is removed completely from the equation it certainly won't hurt my feelings. MOO

there aren't ANY stupid opinions and there are ANY dumb posters....

[mrs. red]

I am out of here, particulary since I seem to have halted all conversation.... I just don't like signing in and seeing us arguring amongest our selves... but hey, I probably just watched a Christmas Carol one too many times. ... bye monkeys... be good to each other and let' s not take our frustration about the lack of resolution (so far) out on each other...

now is the time to truly keep the faith

[Tylergal]

This New Jersey gal has connections to Aruba and scuba diving.

http://justagirlintheworld.com/aruba/

[Anna]

Anna
I did not say anyone had a meltdown in particular..if you choose to think I was speaking of you then so be it.  I was just thinking what a mess it is every time anyone mentions anything about Lorenzo, but it's perfectly fine if you mention it...I don't like being in the middle here when I did not start this conversation from last night.  I know how you feel about Lorenzo as a suspect...but he was called in as a witness and that is a fact. I have no idea about what he did and did not do, but to  not even be able to talk about it is...well ridiculous.  I don't believe in those Aru Bay videos, but until now I have not ridiculed anyone that does or even said much about them.   Why are you being so nasty to me about this?  Why is it that some topics are off limits in here?  That is why I choose to discuss this in the Shango thread...I did not bring it over here last night.  Who determines what is appropriate to speak of and what is not?  I am tired of some things being off limits and others being fine to discuss.  If I don't agree on some things I just let it go.  This is about Natalee and if this helps in some way to find out the truth, then I say we discuss it...just like the shoes and the crematorium and Freddy and Koen and Guido and GVC and I could go on.  I think nothing should be off limits anymore...we are way past the point of being able to keep things to ourselves and think some body else will just discover it somehow.  If is ends up being a dead end...most of the time we find it and we put it to rest.  Until then, I think there should be no off limits topics.  But then again, I have been told I am one of the dumbest posters here and I guess that is true.  I am not as learned as some others and do not have the connections some do. I am here for Natalee and if Lorenzo is removed completely from the equation it certainly won't hurt my feelings. MOO

What are you talking about, Lalas?  I didn't say one word to you.  I responded to bleachedblack, ******* and KatGram.  I have not been nasty to you about this or anything else and don't appreciate your saying that I have.  I even posted photos in your Shango thread yesterday!

You have this backwards!!

I am the one who is not allowed to have a different perspecitive without being accused of lying, defending Lorenzo, being told to crawl back under my rock eve, etc.  I don't care what you discuss but why am I not allowed to state that I don't think he is involved?

What's so wrong with that?  Why is that being nasty to you?  And yes, it is considered and called a meltdown if I don't agree with the party line here about this particular indidual and this is always the result.

If my opinions are not welcome here as much as anybody else's, that's fine with me.

.

[mrs. red]

This New Jersey gal has connections to Aruba and scuba diving.

http://justagirlintheworld.com/aruba/

 with her attitude she is a just a girl in the world   oh yes that enlighted way of thinking....

[Nut44x4]

Can anyone tell me where this is located, please? Would it be considered 'outside the city'? TIA

The van Cromvoirt house –  Located at 14-D Paradera, Aruba.

Here are some pictures of GVC's home.  I don't know where it is located.

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,902,00.html#1_0

nice doggie .....
lot's of those around, eh?

[Tylergal]

This New Jersey gal has connections to Aruba and scuba diving.

http://justagirlintheworld.com/aruba/

 with her attitude she is a just a girl in the world   oh yes that enlighted way of thinking....

I am remembering about Dan's "cousin from New Jersey" and how quickly his friend, Scubajap popped into the picture after his cousin from "New Jersey" sent him the pictures of Natalee's last night at C&C.  Makes me go "hmmmm....."

[Magnolia]

Can anyone tell me where this is located, please? Would it be considered 'outside the city'? TIA

The van Cromvoirt house –  Located at 14-D Paradera, Aruba.

Here are some pictures of GVC's home.  I don't know where it is located.

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,902,00.html#1_0

nice doggie .....
lot's of those around, eh?

    Nut that made me laugh.  I thought the same when
I saw that dog.  I wouldn't lift the latch on that gate.

[klaasend]

We don't have to agree about Lorenzo.  Personally, I can't give Lorenzo a free pass.  His name, house, parties etc were brought up too early in the case for me to ignore him.  He was questioned in the very beginning.  Just because I happen to question Lorenzo doesn't mean everyone has to agree with me.

[Tamikosmom]

Satish Kalpoe pleased with the support people

July 7, 2005, 18:12 (GMT -04:00)(Amigoe)

ORANJESTAD - Lawyers in the Monday released Satish Kalpoe have announced that the 19-year-old boy is pleased with the support he received from the demonstrators at the protest last Tuesday. Demonstrators carried signs with phrases such as when Innocent until proven guilty.

The Aruban people where so quick to defend the rights of those who had lied and obstructed the investigation into the disappearance of 18 year old American citizen.  They had no empathy ... no understanding ... no compassion ... regarding the outrage of an anguished mother who could not comprehend the release of Deepak and Satish.  They lack the insight that  Beth Twitty possessed ... the insight that told her that conflicts of interest abound ... that a corrupt investigation was denying her daughter justice.

Janet

++++++++++


Beth Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
October 21, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: They never—they never wanted to implicate these three young men.

They never wanted to implicate them from the beginning. And there is a list of reasons, you know, why we know that is true.

[San]

Can anyone tell me where this is located, please? Would it be considered 'outside the city'? TIA

The van Cromvoirt house –  Located at 14-D Paradera, Aruba.

Here are some pictures of GVC's home.  I don't know where it is located.

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,902,00.html#1_0

nice doggie .....
lot's of those around, eh?

Does anyone in Aruba have a normal gate that they walk through  .  They sure seem to have high security in these Dutch houses.

[Tamikosmom]

I put the video from the Persistence site in photobucket for those having problems viewing it:

 

oooooh ... I think I am getting seasick.  (Where is that barf icon?)

Janet

[San]

We don't have to agree about Lorenzo.  Personally, I can't give Lorenzo a free pass.  His name, house, parties etc were brought up too early in the case for me to ignore him.  He was questioned in the very beginning.  Just because I happen to question Lorenzo doesn't mean everyone has to agree with me.

But but I always agree with you  .

Here is my usual post to people "I agree" 

[klaasend]

Janet      

[Kat_Gram]

I was doing my readings today and I came across this from :
2 Corinthians 3:1-6
.....
You are an epistle of Christ,... written not with ink, but by the Spirit of the Living God, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of flesh, that is of the heart.
I tried to post on Kyle's Blog, but I cannot get my Google password to work ???