Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #62

[KCJackie]

O/T  MM- when is your grandbaby due?

[Altruist]

Gosh, alot has gone on since I left for work earlier today....or was it yesterday........anyway, things in this case have gotten crazier and crazier, Why in the world did the diver think he could lie to LE and not get caught  and then turn around and go work for LP in the same town and think he wouldnt get found out, also why would LEE send Lois a e-mail, that is pretty crazy too...like she was the only one at Blanchard Park, I think this has turned out to be one hell of a mess!  I wouldnt be surprised if Cindy runs off with the guy from KF.......Or maybe George will become a country singer, Geez    when will it all stop.............  Oh and by the way......I said before that Caylee's remains was in the trunk for 2 weeks and I still stand by that,  I think when we hear about all this in the trial, we will come to realize just how SICK and DISCUSTING Casey really is......

That she is higherhopes, that she is.  I have had some horrifying thoughts of just what she may have done - different timeline & it really troubles me.  In addition to being a sociopath & pathological liar she may be a masochist to boot & well that is just horrifying with it's implications.

[Wyks]

Mods, please delete if inappropriate to post here...

Lois has her own 'myspace', with a pic of her grand-daughter Dakota in a bar, as the background.        

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=199024600

[Wyks]

Not sure if that's Lois's myspace or Dakota's mom's. 

[PJ]

I haven't read too far back yet, but I just watched NG.  Nothing should shock me at this point, but what in the world??......Casey said LE hasn't even found Caylee's clothes yet?  The ones she was wearing that day?  I think in most of our minds, we think Casey chloroformed Caylee and the baby just kinda went to sleep, but this is murder; and i'ts ugly.  Did Casey take off all of Caylee's clothes after she was dead, threw them somewhere and put the body somewhere else?  I know for sure now, this was no accident, it was planned and Caylee must have been so scared to see the ugliness coming out of Casey. 

Hi BikerBev,
I know for sure now, this was no accident, it was planned and Caylee must have been so scared to see the ugliness coming out of Casey.

Now let me change just two words in your sentence...
I know for sure now, this was no accident, it was planned and Caylee must have been so scared to see the ugliness coming out of her Mama.  It's enough to make even the Angels weep!

PJ

[Wyks]

... respectully snipped

Do any of you sleep or just night owls? 

  Sleep????     Night owl here!!  My dachschund and I take cat naps during the day.  lol 

Good night to everyone headed to the monkey bunker. 

OK, night owl...you are up on games...i'm headed to bed. 

my turn already?     was just in there not long ago!  lol  okies omw. 

sweet dreams!

[Wyks]

Not sure if that's Lois's myspace or Dakota's mom's. 

cuz Lois supposedly calls herself Dakota's mom as well.   

[OriginalKat]

Peeking in for a bit ....
I do hope that WFTV and Kathi Belich do not get as dizzy as I did looking at the Milstead's court / legal records 

What makes it bad there is a different Milstead ~ William David vs Dennis William that seems to have been in real estate

And w/o getting too off topic in this thead.... could some one with good eyes  tell me who the Notary is on this doc
http://oris.co.palm-beach.fl.us/or_web1/details.asp?doc_id=13787574&file_num=20030798330 

TIA

I am just catching up so you might have gotten your answer already. It is Mandy Milstead.
OMG...another one.

[PookyBear]

I am sure that LE has much more video surveillance than we know of.  Just sayin'

That's what I don't understand, if there was other evidence wouldn't that have to be released to the defense also, like all the other docs and forensics?  Please enlighten me if you can.  I don't fully understand all this.  TIA  MM

Unfortunately I don't understand how it all works.  There's something about 'discovery' (?), where the state has a set amount of time or such to release to the judge and the defense what they know?  Something like that.  Not sure if that's just the documents or if it also includes all the evidence the state has.  On the other hand, we hear how the state likes to keep things 'close to the vest' for the trial.     I'm just not sure what they are allowed to keep tucked away for surprising the defense (if anything). 

The Florida Rules of Evidence dictate that the state turn over all evidence relevant to the defense (that would include exculpatory evidence -- or evidence that suggests that the defendant did not do it) -- See Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.220

[OriginalKat]

What is Padilla going to film?  The pathological liar of a diver claiming to find things?

I am not sure we should jump to conclusions on "the pathological liar".
Granted it was a dumb thing to lie about but doesn't mean he is a pathological liar. My first husband I was married to for 9 years said he served over in Viet Nam, he had post partum depression episodes over the years and even almost killed my daughter and I in the car one night having one. He went to vet meetings and helped others who had them. During those years I decided to order his service records because we couldn't get him in a veterans hospital or any benefits. Was I shocked. He was given an unfavorable discharge because he was ruled a danger to himself and his country. When I divorced him I found out through his family that he was never in Viet Nam (they lived out of townand didn't know what was going on). He was stateside and was only in the service a short time. It seemed to be a thing for him to have a story but too realistic for me.

Not knowing if this diver really went to those places or if he just lied about what he did there I do not feel it would be right at this time to discount the find . JMO

[Fuzzball]

Ya know, I honestly believe that either Casey or someone in her family or circle of friends got rid of a lot of the 'evidence', whatever that might be.  Betcha Casey or any of the others drove around to several spots in town (all that pinging!) dumping bits of evidence here and there.  That's why I think it is SO important for LE to be collecting whatever is found here and there, even if it doesn't SEEM to be related to this case.  It could turn out that one thing found here may have to do with something found there. 

In a small rural town in northeast Nebraska there was a car stolen by some young punks who (as it turned out) wanted the car for parts for their own car.  They burned the stolen car after they took from it what they needed.  Before they were arrested, (it was later found out), they had a bunch of friends over to their house, and at least three of those friends each took one of the evidence to "dump" on their way home.  One shoe was found in a different rural town, it's mate found in another.  The license plates from the stolen car was found under the mattress of the mother of one of the accused.  She had no clue they were even there!  (and yes it was reported that she did take a lie detector test).

Anybody remember "River's Edge?" It was a movie based on a true story, in which a guy killed his girlfriend, and all their friends helped him cover it up. Every one of them knew he'd done it, but they didn't "snitch." It wouldn't surprise me if several people in Casey's circle of friends and family knew she'd done it, but covered for her for the same reasons that boy's friends did. People do very strange things sometimes.

[OriginalKat]

What the h*ll is John Walsh prolem with Tim Miller? 

I wondered that too I think just today he found a young man from Bryan, and that's where I went to college Teas A & M B (Bryan/College Station), and he has searched for someone from a itty bitty town I once lived in, about a yr ago. God bless that man for all the peace he brings to grieving family members.

Yeah, i can understand him stating that Kidfinders and LP are not professionals but how can he lump TES in with them? 

Does he possibly mean TES searchers in other areas besides his main group?  I would assume they would be trained but I imagine not everyone travels all over to get the experience like Tim and crew. Maybe they are only used when needed in the area which would mean less experience.

[OriginalKat]

OOOHHH! And might I ADD!  HOw is Tim supposed to concentrate on a real search and feeding thousands of people at the same time??? How can he do his job?????   I personally have not heard of ANY success from Mark Klaas's org.  I'm not condemning him for what he's doing with his org., but DO NOT act like he's knows about Tim's!!!! 

Ok, off my rant now. 

TES should NOT have to feed the volunteers....people were told to bring a sack lunch....however in other areas and on searches that I have been on...the people of the community come together and make sure there is plenty of food and water etc for the volunteers....what in the hell is wrong with people...why in the hell  weren't the church groups out there...the restaurants should be donating food, grocery stores...the whole thing just pisses me off to no end....people from all over this great country were buying food long distance and having it delivered....why in the hell do I, in MO, need to feed the volunteers in Orlando?? Sorry if I sound bitter...but I am....I never seen such a lack of community in my life......

IIRC...I offered to TES...way in advance, ir food/water etc was needed...just let me know....I was told...that Tes had that all covered.....

What a shock at the last minute/Friday afternoon of second search...not from TES...but associate of TES....help we need everything....I know that this was posted on several TES supporting sites....including, and in the forefront SM....that massive amounts of food ere sent to the search....many places/food I called said that they were wiped out.....so to read the TES official report of part of the reason they left was no food....well...it left me flabergasted to say the least...I do my homework....food and water imoo was not an issue....not bashing TES...but I do not agree with the TES report of lack of food to not be correct....Des

I know by this forum you were right on it for the food. I wonder why they used that excuse?

Also you do a great job and are very informative. Thanks for all your work.

Thanks to others too who keep me coming back to read info, observations and my faov..discoveries. Lord knows my family doesn't understand me and this case. When I mention it they roll their eyes most of the time and say "oh really?' I am glad I have somewhere to discuss things.

[OriginalKat]

Ok...  interesting thought on the Anthony's P.I. that I sort of picked up from WS and "went with"...

PI hired supposedly to find Caylee, but maybe.. more likely to find out dirt on anybody who is working against the Anthonys'.. Padilla, the diver, whoever else is a believer that Caylee is deceased. At all possible?  I mean, it doesn't seem like the P.I. is really searching for a child, does it?

That is a good observation and I think actually could be where things are coming from. It would make sense to find everything you can dig up since there is no live Caylee to find.

[dottie]

I am sure that LE has much more video surveillance than we know of.  Just sayin'

That's what I don't understand, if there was other evidence wouldn't that have to be released to the defense also, like all the other docs and forensics?  Please enlighten me if you can.  I don't fully understand all this.  TIA  MM

Unfortunately I don't understand how it all works.  There's something about 'discovery' (?), where the state has a set amount of time or such to release to the judge and the defense what they know?  Something like that.  Not sure if that's just the documents or if it also includes all the evidence the state has.  On the other hand, we hear how the state likes to keep things 'close to the vest' for the trial.     I'm just not sure what they are allowed to keep tucked away for surprising the defense (if anything). 

The Florida Rules of Evidence dictate that the state turn over all evidence relevant to the defense (that would include exculpatory evidence -- or evidence that suggests that the defendant did not do it) -- See Florida Rule of Criminal Procedure 3.220

Hey Pookybear,
You are up awful early.  I have your toboggan.  E-mail me your address and I'll send it to you. 

[dottie]

Peeking in for a bit ....
I do hope that WFTV and Kathi Belich do not get as dizzy as I did looking at the Milstead's court / legal records 

What makes it bad there is a different Milstead ~ William David vs Dennis William that seems to have been in real estate

And w/o getting too off topic in this thead.... could some one with good eyes  tell me who the Notary is on this doc
http://oris.co.palm-beach.fl.us/or_web1/details.asp?doc_id=13787574&file_num=20030798330 

TIA

I am just catching up so you might have gotten your answer already. It is Mandy Milstead.
OMG...another one.

Can a notary public notarize a family member's document?
Guardianship of minors or adult guardianship, conveyance of property that is encumbered by a pending lawsuit, judgment or other legal action, other custodial or support issues regarding a minor child, or any matter that is specified under state laws as being under the jurisdiction of the court are not subject to notarization nor would they be legally binding if it is done so.

This document is a Release of Lein and/or Judgement.  Looks like to me it is not legal for the Milsteads daughter to notarize it.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_notary_public_notarize_a_family_member's_document
look at it and see what you think   

[Lisa39]

ORLANDO - Orange Circuit Court Judge Stan Strickland set a date for next week to hear nearly a dozen motions filed in the Casey Anthony case.

The motions range from Anthony's attorney Jose Baez asking to bring a laptop into the Orange County Jail so he can use it to prepare for trial with his client to another defense request to inspect the hairs found in the trunk of Anthony's car.

Another filing includes a response from the Orlando Sentinel and WFTV-Channel 9 opposing a gag order requested by the state. The issues will be addressed Nov. 25 at 2 p.m.

[Nut44x4]

No body? No problem in nearly 300 murder prosecutions

01:00 AM EST on Wednesday, November 19, 2008

PROVIDENCE — When Andrew F. Merola and Nicholas S. Pari were charged with assassinating Joseph P. “Joe Onions” Scanlon 30 years ago, their lawyers cried foul. In arguments before and during their trial, and again after a jury convicted the men of first-degree murder, the defense attorneys tried to derail the prosecution.

“The state has no body, no weapon, no bloodstains, no scientific evidence, no physical evidence,” Merola’s lawyer argued to the jurors.

But even though the state could not produce a body to prove that Scanlon was dead, prosecutors had a live witness –– Scanlon’s girlfriend –– who testified that she had watched Merola fire a handgun into the back of her lover’s head while Pari diverted his attention by punching him in the face.

They also had another witness, who said he helped Merola wrap Scanlon’s body in plastic garbage bags and place it in the trunk of Merola’s car. Then there was the FBI informant from Brooklyn, N.Y., who told the jury that Merola came to his home and told him he had killed Scanlon because he was a “stool pigeon.”

Jurors interviewed after the trial said they found the testimony convincing. After nearly six hours of deliberation, they pronounced both defendants guilty “beyond a reasonable doubt.”

Years later, after their convictions were overturned based on errors made by the trial judge, Merola and Pari admitted killing Scanlon. As part of a plea agreement, the now-deceased Merola pleaded no contest to second-degree murder and was sentenced to serve 10 years of a 25-year term. Pari was ordered to serve 7 years of a 20-year sentence for manslaughter.

While the Joe Onions case was the first murder prosecution in Rhode Island where no body had been recovered, there have been nearly 300 of them in the United States dating to the 1800s. And most of the prosecutions have resulted in convictions.

Washington, D.C., lawyer Thomas A. “Tad” DiBiase –– who spent more than 12 years as an assistant U.S. attorney prosecuting mostly homicide cases –– keeps track of all of the “no body” cases in the United States as a hobby. His Web site –– www.nobodycases.com -– lists all of the “no body” trials ever held.

One of the first, in 1843, involved three men accused of murdering the master of their schooner, the Sarah Lavinia, on the “high seas” off the coast of New England. But most such prosecutions have been in the last 30 years. According to DiBiase’s research, as of Nov. 13 of this year, there had been 279 “no body” murder trials in the United States and the Virgin Islands, and only 25 of them had resulted in acquittals or had been overturned on appeal.

DiBiase said in an interview yesterday that he believes there are just three states ––Vermont, New Hampshire and Idaho –– where prosecutors still haven’t tried a “no body” case.

One of the most high-profile cases now being played out on the nightly news is a “no body” case in Florida. Casey Anthony, 22, is facing a first-degree murder prosecution and a possible death penalty in the disappearance of her toddler daughter, Caylee Anthony.

Bloody carpeting, broken eyeglasses, strands of hair, dentures, tooth fragments, a bloodied hatband, a bullet hole in a missing person’s winter coat. These were the key pieces of evidence that have linked defendants to murders in some of the “no body” prosecutions throughout the country. In some of these cases, like the “Joe Onions” murder case, there is also eyewitness testimony. But often it was just circumstantial evidence that led to convictions.

DiBiase, who prosecuted a “no body” murder case in the District of Columbia in 2006, won a second-degree murder conviction against a man who allegedly shot and killed his girlfriend during an argument in their home, even though none of the five children who were home at the time witnessed the killing and the victim’s body was never found.

While some prosecutors may be loath to take them on, DiBiase asserts that “no body” cases often aren’t all that hard to win. If there isn’t good forensic evidence, often a suspect will confess to the police or “it’s a case of friend rats on friend. … A lot of these cases are not stranger-on-stranger crimes but usually a husband killing a wife or a boyfriend killing a girlfriend. The second most common type is parents killing children or in some cases, strangers killing children. Typically, the first “no body” cases were those where ships would come back without a captain or a first mate because they’d been thrown overboard. The murder trials that followed were against crew members.”

In an interview yesterday, former Rhode Island Attorney General Dennis J. Roberts II said that “some of the people in my office thought I was crazy to base my decision to present the [Joe Onions] case to a grand jury on the testimony of a hooker. But I thought she was a credible witness.” And, he pointed out, “we got convictions” and Merola and Pari both served substantial time in prison.

http://www.projo.com/news/content/JOE_ONIONS_CASE_11-19-08_09CATVF_v19.3d53902.html

[OriginalKat]

Ok I having been thinking about LE asking LP to take a lie dectator test.

Here if is my thought for the day- Could TES have already recorded the river with their sonar (telling LP they never recorded it)  and know the garbage bag was not there before "his" search.   

I 'thought' the bag was UNDER SILT.  Can a side sonar pick up items that are under silt?  I don't know the answer, but I'm hoping one of the monkeys knows and will share the info.
I know that a side sonar can give back a really good reflection of what's in the water, but can it see through silt, too?  TIA

Puzzler ... you are right!!

That could be the reason that the sonar never picked up on the bag.

Janet

______

NANCY GRACE
Caylee Search Divers Find Bag With Toys, Bones
Aired November 13, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

GRACE: But it was a child`s toy, but you`re saying it was in a garbage bag weighted down with a cement block?

BOSINSKI: Yes, ma`am. The garbage bag was ripped -- when I found it down underneath the silt, from what I could tell and by what I could feel, the garbage bag was partially closed. And as I pulled it up, I didn`t realize there was concrete in it. And as I got it up to the surface, I realized that there was actually something weighing in it, and I tried to do the best I could to preserve it. But in these type of conditions it`s extremely -- extremely hard to be able to control everything ...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/14/ng.01.html

If you go to a search engine and put in side sonar you will find that it does not pickup through silt.
Also I watched the day of discovery on the live report on tv and Todd was seen digging through the muddy stuff looking for small pieces of evidence. He was on his knees by a cooler and there was plastic on the ground where he was going through this muddy stuff.

[PookyBear]

Good morning Dottie -- yes I was up early -- my lower back has been giving me fits since Sunday.  If you have my email handy, can you email me?  I have yours at home and I am already at work.  Hope all Monkeys have a great day!