Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 - 12/5/08

[MumInOhio]

Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

[SS]

[size=12pt]Wow!!![/size]


I am 100% behind Lala's statements about Shango.  Some of us spent many hours, days, and months trying to figure out what Shango/Simian were telling us and I think we did a pretty good job of piecing the story together over in that corner of the cage.  We may not fully understand or agree with their motives for cryptic messages, but those Shango/Simian messages were definitely vital in understanding the events and corruption that surrounded Natalee's disappearance.  Those cryptic messages were all we had and as we dug to decipher the messages, we uncovered horrific corruption on crappy island and the players involved.

[SS]

Hiya Monkeys  If there is going to be a roundup of the corrupt on Aruba, they better fence in the entire island.
CBB, I wonder if goonchild was warning his economic supporters to make sure his payments continue or he will tell all? What he told Greta may just be the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Very plausible. If that's the case, Paulus was one of the warned!

I honestly think Joran's playing with fire. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he turned up dead.

CBB that is what I am afraid of.  I want the punk alive so maybe some day someone will beat the real truth out of him or we can see him spend the rest or most of his life locked up away from his gambling, partying and girls!

Casa - I agree.  I want Urine alive and I want to hear him sing like a canary to bring that entire group down with him.

Divide and conquer!

[ldstlou]

[size=12pt]Wow!!![/size]


I am 100% behind Lala's statements about Shango.  Some of us spent many hours, days, and months trying to figure out what Shango/Simian were telling us and I think we did a pretty good job of piecing the story together over in that corner of the cage.  We may not fully understand or agree with their motives for cryptic messages, but those Shango/Simian messages were definitely vital in understanding the events and corruption that surrounded Natalee's disappearance.  Those cryptic messages were all we had and as we dug to decipher the messages, we uncovered horrific corruption on crappy island and the players involved.

Yes you did!! I remember having NIGHTMARES!!! literally...when you guys were uncovering it all. It was so horrific, it was difficult to believe. But here it all is...in black and white!! I am so glad you guys did decipher it.

[Rob]

Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

[ldstlou]

Bank and pool meeting on Monday...Thought the pool meeting was in the evening, but it isn't documented in the statements....Ah....because Joran wasn't home...

I thought so. Bank and a payoff!!! Right from the get-go before Beth even touched down. And we kept asking why the police would not come take a report from the chaperone!!! Now we know!! Van der sloot was already on it!!!

[SS]

I wonder if Kermit's posting of the cage pictures had anything to do with forcing Rudy's hand.  I have also always believed that Urine gave Daury's name for a reason and he named the two ALE officers for a reason.  Urine was dropping the dime on them.

[blah]

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.

2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.

3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.

4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.

5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.

6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.

SS ... your overview of the probable scenario is concise but ... says it all.

Thanks

Janet

I find this VERY hard to believe and very unlikely to be honest.  Then again, this whole case has been so crazy that I guess anything is possible. Who knows anymore.

[Helen Back]

Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

Oh Rob.  I'm so sorry and will continue to keep the family in my prayers.  Perhaps if the corruption in Aruba is exposed in a big way, we will still learn what happened to Max.  That is my hope.
 

[Tamikosmom]

Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes confirms Police Chief Jan van der Straten has intentionally messed up the investigation in the first days to protect his friend Paul van der Sloot.

- arrested Joran and Kalpoe bros. only after 10 days
- Rudy Croes heard Jan van der Straten say: "I can't do this to my friend".
- a lot of phone communication between Jan and Paul
- a 2nd grade investigation team was used. "the team the used for carnaval" - meaning petty crimes.
- Rudy Croes wants a fresh investigation
- Paul and Jan helped each other 'as Dutch friends'.

further:

- he criticizes the Dutch gov. for not giving moral support to Aruba while Aruba's name gets besmudged internationally.
- Dutch gov. wanted Aruba to hide as much as possible that Joran was Dutch.
- Joran had to appear as an Aruba - a Dutch minister personally requested this. (Rudy Croes won't give the minster's name). > reminds me of the Most Wanted program, the actor playing Joran was dark skinned.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2714185/___Politie_hielp_Paul_van_der_Sloot___.html

Mistakes were not made in the first days of the investigation.  The investigation was not botched.  The Prime Minster's words do not go far enought.  The disappearance into the disappearance of an American citizen on Aruban soil was a COVERUP!!!

Janet

++++++++


Posted 8/22/2005 11:36 AM     Updated 8/22/2005 11:59 AM
Aruba leader acknowledges early mistakes in probe

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruba's prime minister believes that authorities made mistakes at the start of the investigation of the Natalee Holloway case, a government spokesman said Monday.

Beth Holloway Twitty, who has often criticized authorities on the Dutch Caribbean island since her daughter disappeared on May 30, met in private with Prime Minister Nelson Oduber over the weekend.

"I think that he's in absolute agreement that the initial investigation has been so badly botched," Holloway Twitty said on NBC's "Today" show.

She said the prime minister also told her that Aruba needs to review the first stages of the investigation to find out "who let this go wrong."

Oduber told reporters over the weekend that during the meeting he assured the Alabama woman that investigators would not stop looking for answers about the fate of her 18-year-old daughter.

Government spokesman Ruben Trapenberg said Monday the prime minister had expressed concerns about the initial investigation, though he used more cautious language.

"The prime minister agreed that in the beginning the case could have been better handled," Trapenberg said. "He didn't say it had been 'botched.'"

Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., was last seen leaving a bar with three young local men on the final night of a high school graduation trip to Aruba. Police and hundreds of volunteers have searched the island, but found no trace of her.

An 18-year-old Dutch resident of Aruba, Joran van der Sloot, has been detained as a suspect but no charges have been filed. At a hearing in September, a court is expected to decide if there is enough evidence to continue holding him.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-22-aruba_x.htm

[SS]

Hey Julia, what do you have to say this time???

[Rob]

Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

Oh Rob.  I'm so sorry and will continue to keep the family in my prayers.  Perhaps if the corruption in Aruba is exposed in a big way, we will still learn what happened to Max.  That is my hope.
 

Thanks Helen.. it really means a lot to me ... I would like to think I did everything I could outside of following the Staceys themselves. The sad part is they will do what they did to Max to someone else sooner or later. I spent as much time as I could tryin' to help her and I think we know more than we did, and in a small way that helps, but it didn't get the desired results.

Yvonne was never too hopeful that the FBI would resolve it, and she keep her emotions in check. It's just painful for everyone to know that there will probably never be any sort of resolution here.

Thanks you again for you concern. It does go a long way with me.

[MumInOhio]

Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

Sorry to hear this Rob. Thanks for letting us know.

[SS]

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.

2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.

3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.

4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.

5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.

6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.

SS ... your overview of the probable scenario is concise but ... says it all.

Thanks

Janet

I find this VERY hard to believe and very unlikely to be honest.  Then again, this whole case has been so crazy that I guess anything is possible. Who knows anymore.

Blah - this was taken out of context from the rest of the post.  I was explaining to several monkeys what Kermit was trying to tell us about the Persistence search.  It was an explanation.

[yapperz1]

I do not believe Natalee's body was found in that cage. I honestly think if it were her remains the family would have been screaming it at the top of their lungs.

[Blonde]

Trying to put it all together, and I am leaning towards Natalee passed at the slot house of a siezure from a date rape drug. joran freaks and gets Paulus up. Paulus is trying to figure out what to do...looks up on the computer the effects of drugs and alcohol. Natalee, expires. Gathers the boys up that morning around the pool to create their story and to figure out what to do with Natalee. Sends joran off to school and calls in van der sloot. Van der sloot is able to keep the chaperone limited to just the visibility team..no police would show up. Van der sloot and van der straaten arrange for someone to take Natalee far away in a boat. paulus makes several trips to the bank to get the money put together. They meet the person with the boat, pay him the $10,000, and Natalee is taken away where she will never be found. Deepak and joran NOT at the casino, but meeting the man with the boat. When Jug and Beth arrive, deepak and joran are getting back, sweaty and dirty.

you know what else I am REALLY curious about???!!! Remember the guy who claimed to have the frozen condom? all the talk about not having a condom? What if a used condom was part of what was disposed of and the guy was trying to scare the sloots into blackmail $$ by pretending he had kept it back as evidence?

Betcha so much stuff is finally going to make sense and all the things we were focused on...turns out to be little parts of the puzzle.

WITNESSES –


COLUMBIAN ON THE BEACH witness who claims to have seen a rape, murder and disposal of a young woman at the California sand dunes. Claims to have 2 pieces of evidence from the crime. Later discredited. See above under arrestees.


FISHERMEN - Saw a white vehicle but no activity or persons on 5-30-05 at the area around the fishermen’s huts at Hadicurari where Joran claims he took and left Natalee.


JOGGER – Jossy Mansur said that his information is that the unknown jogger near the “Marriott Hotel”/drained pond witness telephoned police with his 5-30 observations 2 or 3 days after Natalee disappeared (6-1 or 6-2), and he phoned from a public pay telephone.


JUNIOR - the landfill witness who claims to have seen a blonde woman being disposed of,and a white truck. the landfill witness said he witnessed the 3 men burying the body on 6-1. described to him that the body was that of a woman with long blonde hair. The landfill witness claimed he saw her breasts. He also noticed a jeep-like vehicle sitting close to the white truck. The landfill witness saw the 3 persons bury the blonde woman’s body in a specific spot, after which the 3 men found a blue plastic “kiddie’s pool” in the dump and placed the “kiddie’s pool” over where they buried the blonde woman. The witness also obtained the license plate nu-ber of the truck they were driving and gave it to the police, but when the police checked on the license plate number they reported that the car that license plate number was registered to “was not near the landfill.” Jossy Mansur said the license plate of the pickup truck that JUNIOR saw at the landfill has been traced to a Chevrolet “Malibu.”


RAMOS, Carlos Alberto Penata (DOB 2-25-79, Cartagena, Columbia) - the gardner witness who claims to have seen 3 boys in Deepak’s car on the dirt road by the pond at the Racquet Club on 5-30-05 at approximately 2:30 AM. Identifies Joran in front seat, Deepak in passenger seat, and unidentified male in rear seat. Claims passenger has hand up besides face, and the driver (identified as Joran) is sitting far back in the seat. His employer was Eric Mansur.
STATEMENTS to Police 7-26-05 through 8-16-05: http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=271

[Tamikosmom]

Now what?

 

[Anna]

Oh, puh-leeze!  Who was NOT saying it was van der Straten right from the start?  I can only think of one Aruban poster who went bananas every time she was asked anything about him.

Even Geraldo was on to vd Straten.   

Paulus only actually went to the bank once on Monday.  The other time he said he did was to cover his absence from work, not that anybody was watcing him.

By the time of the pool meeting after school, it was already a done deal and no body, no case an assured thing.  MO

[SS]

Guy, I told Klaas last night, and now I'll tell you all too. The FBI closed Max DeVries' case yesterday. They said there was nothing they could do. They went as far as they could.

If you could, keep Yvonne and Dominique close to your hearts this holiday season and let's never forget they became VICTIMS of Aruba too.

Thank You All.

I am so sorry, Rob.  My heart aches for Yvonne and Dominique.

[Anna]

I do not believe Natalee's body was found in that cage. I honestly think if it were her remains the family would have been screaming it at the top of their lungs.

Exactly and whomever allegedly bought photos would have used them in some sort of explosive documentary to prove same.