Natalee Case Discussion #741 3/7 - 3/10/08

[katrien]

HI all.  Sorry, I know this is our of context, but am trying to catch up today.  I have a question:  How did they know where to call Joran?  There are so many stories going around.....he is in a psychiatric clinic, he is hiding in Germany, he is home with grandma in Netherlands.  But someone on this show knew where he was.  How?  Just very curious because I'm trying to figure out whether Peter and Patrick are keeping tabs on Joran or the other way around.  TIA

PS.  Am new posting here, but I've been reading and trying to educate myself for over a month.  I live in Austin and have followed this case from afar since the beginning, and got so upset about the backlash against Beth et al that I decided I wanted to get involved and do what I can. You guys are AMAZING!! I'll jump back in later when I get more caught up.   

also Poentjes says: (hiding) in Germany? - and Patrick says yes.
but elsewhere Poentje says Patrick said hiding in The Netherlands.

but rumours were Joran was in hiding in Germany.
is Patrick only telling the rumours or does he know something himself?

When Joran was called in the Jensen show; the transfer of calling sounded normal. Normally when you call abroad the sound is different...but maybe I'm mistaken. Or he was in the Netherlands for visit to his grandma

When you call a number in Germany the tone is the same as calling someone in Holland.
(I work for a German company, I make calls to Germany every day.  )
Calling to the UK and USA has a different tone (2 short tones instead of 1 longer one)

Hi Catherine and welcome to the cage.

I thought they called Joran on his cell phone.

He put the phone down immediately. Patrick told he has had a few times contact with Joran after the show.
Patrick also told that he had loads of SMS'jes from Joran.

[hotping]

Good Night All! 

[katrien]

I like your humor Caps  I didn't expect that coming from you! 

I think we all have worked very hard this week and I have not had a chance to enjoy a good laugh since I started with the Monkeys on my research.

I hope tomorrow we will have the final links into a final resolution about the pond. This comming week is THE DAY.

Me and J & W and the C's are all in a agreement now that it must be there.



 

Thanks for the laugh it was much appreciated Although Robots is deeply missed it is good to see you pick up some of his optimism as it is much needed.

===============
I don't have any great jokes at the moment but maybe this will make someone smile:) I know it's OT but it's needed! 

Notice how he nonchalantly walks and looks around like he's just a average bird on a stroll..Then he grab's the chips and run's like hell

Clever bird.

[Bearlyhere]

O/T

Is the Auburn Video Press Conference over for Lauren Burk?  I just keep getting a blank screen.

Yes it's over.  They talked about the arrest and that they have known for a while the person they were looking for (I forget how they knew).  He's being charged with capital murder and attempted rape.

Thanks, Klaas.

[katrien]

quote]

"By the remarks about “choller”  are question marks. I read  some were that  ”choller” means  “driver”.  But look in the other topic, on Joran’s block. There you can read that Joran had a dog named Choller. Vaguely I remember that I read that there was something happened with a dog at the  vdS’s.
Does anybody know more about this?"

The conversation between the boys is very strange.
It looks like they made-up a story about the choller.
Has the story anything to do with blood in the car and cleaning up the car in the middle of the night?

Choller is a drug addict in Aruba apparently also was the name of Joran's dog. We did hear much about this fight with the Choller and I do not know why. From what I have seen Deepak said he cleaned his car because of ants or sand in his car. We know from a witness,that he was seen with Satish and another boy cleaning his car at 3AM the day Natalee went missing,it was parked in a strange part of the house and looked suspicious. Art Wood also told us that Deepak looked into long term storage for his car.
Beth in her Book said that Deepak's car was already at the police station on May 31st at 8AM hours before he said he arrived to give his statement.

Peter R reported that Joran killed his own dog with I believe a paintball gun and tried to blame it on someone else. Also at RWV there was much talk/rumors about Lorenzo killing dogs. We know that there was a Mattress saturated with blood found on June 5th 2005 with a dead dog found nearby. Within 3 hours they determined it was Dogs blood only and not connected to Natalee,this was the same news conference announcing they arrested the two security guards. Also early in the case they had breaking news that Natalee was found in a abandoned casino I believe the Allegro,all that was found was a dead dog.

A mattress saturated with dog blood?

[wreck]

*******: We are on the same page!!! It is NOT a Mystery. It is NOT an enigma. It is NOT internet speculation.
IT'S A COVER-UP OF THE GREATEST ORDER. 

[katrien]

All the judges in Aruba and Coracacao and Binnaire are provided by Holland.

This is true. Some (I do not know if this happens all the time, but I am sure it happens) judges go to Aruba for a few days to do cases.

So it is important to keep going on with TV shows and articles in proper newspapers.

[texasmom]

On Fok  subject  “Gesprek Joran v.d.Sloot en broers Kalpoe afgeluisterd op 29-06-2005”
this was posted:

quote]Op dinsdag 4 maart 2008 13:19 schreef duikkie het volgende:
Pagina 2

J zegt tegen D : --------------------------------" dan jullie shit vertellen over de choller "
-------------------------------------------------- ik heb jouw met dat shit van de choller geholpen vriend "
D zegt tegen J : --------------------------------" dat heb ik ook gezegd "
J zegt tegen D : --------------------------------" zo heb ik het niet gelezen,ik heb die verklaring ook gelezen"
S zegt tegen J : --------------------------------" dat van die choller was van mij "
S of D tegen J : --------------------------------" dat heb ik al eerder verteld "
-------------------------------------------------" dat heb ik ook in mijn eerste verklaring gezegd "
-------------------------------------------------" dat heb ik voor mezelf gedaan "
S zegt tegen J : --------------------------------" ik heb het in mijn belang gezegd "
J zegt terug : --------------------------------" dat zeggen de politie tegen mij nu "
J zegt tegen S of D : ---------------------------" politie zegt nu net tegen mij van, (dus)
-------------------------------------------------- als jullie tegen mij ingaan, ga ik ook tegen jullie "
Gebroeders lachen : -----------------------------" hehehehehehehe "
S tegen J : -------------------------------------" wij zetten jou niet in problemen "
-------------------------------------------------" wij zeggen gewoon de waarheid "
J zegt tegen broers : ---------------------------" dat doen jullie niet "
-------------------------------------------------" de helft wat jullie hebben gezegd is niet de f***ing waarheid "
-------------------------------------------------" het komt wel naar voren "
-------------------------------------------------" net zoals ze mij checken, checken zij jullie ook "
S zegt tegen J : --------------------------------" bij ons,bij ons kunnen zij bewijzen krijgen, maar bij jou niet "
-------------------------------------------------" bij leugens krijg je geen bewijzen "
J


Bij die opmerkingen over "choller" staan steeds vraagtekens. Ergens heb ik gelezen dat dit misschien wel "chauffeur" moet zijn. Maar kijk eens in het andere topic, op de blog van Joran. Dan zie je dat hij een hond heeft (gehad) die Choller heet(te). Vaag herinner ik me dat ik gelezen heb dat er iets met een hond gebeurd is bij de Van der Slootjes.

Wie van jullie weet daar meer van?

"By the remarks about “choller”  are question marks. I read  some were that  ”choller” means  “driver”.  But look in the other topic, on Joran’s block. There you can read that Joran had a dog named Choller. Vaguely I remember that I read that there was something happened with a dog at the  vdS’s.
Does anybody know more about this?"

The conversation between the boys is very strange.
It looks like they made-up a story about the choller.
Has the story anything to do with blood in the car and cleaning up the car in the middle of the night?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=95.msg0#new
Police Car Transcript 6/24/05

I snipped the following for the description of the choller incident by Sander Gottenbos who was also present when it happened.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=310.0;prev_next=next
snip from 6/16/05 Witness Statement of Sander Gottenbos
(describes the "choller" incident)
On your question if I was with Joran in the carnavals season when there was an incident, I will explain to you the following:
Yes I was with him on that day. On that day there was a parade in Oranjestad. We stood on the bridge at the Wilhelmina Park. That moment a druggie came to us. Joran had given him beer. The druggie had thrown the beer on the ground and started annoying us. Joran had called the police force that stood near. The police force had removed the druggie. After a while the druggie returned and started annoying us. He had grabbed Satish at its hand and wanted with him fight. At that moment Joran grabbed him and threw him off the bridge into the water.

On your question what I thought about the actions of Joran at that moment, I will explain to you the following:
I found that he had acted well. The druggie came to annoy.

[Blonde]

At approximately 8:30 that night, a search for blood was conducted inside that vehicle. That same day, FBI officials compiled a report of blood sample comparisons from their findings in that car.

One week later, DNA lab results came back from the FBI’s forensic laboratory in Quantico.

Has anyone ever confirmed with FBI whether tests were done and results?
Or did Aruba just say this to make themselves look good to internation public?

In regard to blood in the car, even Oduber said it was definately blood:

Aruba by Dave Holloway: pg. 180

(Art Woods and Dave Holloway were meeting with Amalin Flanegan, a prosecutor who had resigned from Natalee's case, to determine why she had resigned.)

"We explained how we were first told that there was blood in Deepak's car. Then there was no blood in the car. The seat had been cut out of the car, and it tested positive for blood. Then, it supposedly tested positive for choclate syrup and cleaning fluid. But, the prime minister had said that it was definately blood, and a police officer that Art talked to said it tested positive for blood."

[katrien]

This reaction was placed on the website of H.J. Korterink, a Dutch crimewriter.
Ko van Dijk had his own weblog.

Mijn spirituele bronnen meldden een dag voor de scoop van Peter dat Joran en Patrick elkaar al jaren kennen en het op een akkoordje hadden gegooid om Peter een poets te bakken. Nu geloof ik niet alles was "zieners" verkondigen ook al heb ik frappante dingen meegemaakt. Lichtelijk verbaasd was ik toen Joran "live" bij Jensen de telefoon opnam. Hij kon toch zien dat de call afkomstig van zijn 'verrader" was? Die had net zitten vertellen met Joran geen contact meer te hebben. Enfin, nog geen uur later kreeg ik een mail van Stan de Jong. De rest is alweer geschiedenis.

Laatste nieuws: de producent van The Sopranos gaat een serie maken over Natalee. Het wordt een reallive soap. Alleen de rol van Natalee moet gecast worden de overige hoofdrolspelers spelen zichzelf. Ik verwacht dat het de langst lopende soap aller tijden gaat worden. Tenzij Natalee plotseling opduikt uit haar schuilplaats in Venezuela. In dat geval gaat ze onmiddellijk naar de haaien want the show must go on.
Geplaatst door: Ko van Dijk | 9 maart 2008 om 3:06

My spiritual sources told me one day before the scoop of Peter that Joran and Patrick knew each other for years and made a deal to cheat Peter. Well, I do not believe everything fortuneteller's say, in spite of the fact I  was a witness of strange things. I was slightly surprised when Joran answered the phone “live” at Jensen. He was able to see that the cell came from his “betrayer", or?  His betrayer just told that the contact with Joran was broken. Anyway, within an hour a got a mail from Stan de Jong.  The rest is history”.

“News update:  the producer of The Sopranos is going to make a series about Natalee. It is going to be a real live soap. Only Natalee has to be casted, the other main players play themselves. I expect this is going to be the longest soap ever. Unless of course, Natalee comes out of her hiding-place in Venezuela. In that case she goes immediately to the sharks because the show must go on”.

[Finbar]

quote]

"By the remarks about “choller”  are question marks. I read  some were that  ”choller” means  “driver”.  But look in the other topic, on Joran’s block. There you can read that Joran had a dog named Choller. Vaguely I remember that I read that there was something happened with a dog at the  vdS’s.
Does anybody know more about this?"

The conversation between the boys is very strange.
It looks like they made-up a story about the choller.
Has the story anything to do with blood in the car and cleaning up the car in the middle of the night?

Choller is a drug addict in Aruba apparently also was the name of Joran's dog. We did hear much about this fight with the Choller and I do not know why. From what I have seen Deepak said he cleaned his car because of ants or sand in his car. We know from a witness,that he was seen with Satish and another boy cleaning his car at 3AM the day Natalee went missing,it was parked in a strange part of the house and looked suspicious. Art Wood also told us that Deepak looked into long term storage for his car.
Beth in her Book said that Deepak's car was already at the police station on May 31st at 8AM hours before he said he arrived to give his statement.

Peter R reported that Joran killed his own dog with I believe a paintball gun and tried to blame it on someone else. Also at RWV there was much talk/rumors about Lorenzo killing dogs. We know that there was a Mattress saturated with blood found on June 5th 2005 with a dead dog found nearby. Within 3 hours they determined it was Dogs blood only and not connected to Natalee,this was the same news conference announcing they arrested the two security guards. Also early in the case they had breaking news that Natalee was found in a abandoned casino I believe the Allegro,all that was found was a dead dog.

I have used paintball markers and I do not believe it is possible to kill a dog with one - even point blank. Maybe torture one with it though. Most serial killers torture and kill animals as "practice" for their later deeds.

I have in me notes that clevfan spoke to the grandmother of SGC on Curacao.

SGC's friend is GVC.

GVC played soccer with JVDS.

I cannot decipher the numerous connections with words. I drew a picture. Take a piece of paper and place "Polis" at the center. Then add all the names in the case and arrows pointing to connections.

It is startling.

Round and round it goes.

Fin

[Katherine]

Pet cemetery in foreground.....down by baby beach.

That's the pet cemetery?  Hummmm  In the video, the guy playing the guitar and singing is sitting in the pet cemetery.  Then there is the old guy taking the trap out in his boat and the young boy watching after riding his bike.  Are they trying to say there is a connection with the pet cemetery and Natalee?  I guess I see a lot of symbolism in the video, but I can't put it all together....can anybody help?

[Katherine]

HI all.  Sorry, I know this is our of context, but am trying to catch up today.  I have a question:  How did they know where to call Joran?  There are so many stories going around.....he is in a psychiatric clinic, he is hiding in Germany, he is home with grandma in Netherlands.  But someone on this show knew where he was.  How?  Just very curious because I'm trying to figure out whether Peter and Patrick are keeping tabs on Joran or the other way around.  TIA

PS.  Am new posting here, but I've been reading and trying to educate myself for over a month.  I live in Austin and have followed this case from afar since the beginning, and got so upset about the backlash against Beth et al that I decided I wanted to get involved and do what I can. You guys are AMAZING!! I'll jump back in later when I get more caught up.   

also Poentjes says: (hiding) in Germany? - and Patrick says yes.
but elsewhere Poentje says Patrick said hiding in The Netherlands.

but rumours were Joran was in hiding in Germany.
is Patrick only telling the rumours or does he know something himself?

When Joran was called in the Jensen show; the transfer of calling sounded normal. Normally when you call abroad the sound is different...but maybe I'm mistaken. Or he was in the Netherlands for visit to his grandma

When you call a number in Germany the tone is the same as calling someone in Holland.
(I work for a German company, I make calls to Germany every day.  )
Calling to the UK and USA has a different tone (2 short tones instead of 1 longer one)

Hi Catherine and welcome to the cage.

I thought they called Joran on his cell phone.

He put the phone down immediately. Patrick told he has had a few times contact with Joran after the show.
Patrick also told that he had loads of SMS'jes from Joran.

Ok, I understand now.  Also, I'm sorry Caesu, I accidentally posted in the middle of your post.  Still trying to get the hang of the quick reply thingy. 

[GBMW]

http://www.revu.nl/10871.Advocaat_reageert_op_uitspraken_Van_der_Eem

Reaction lawyer Joran on Patrick van der Eem / Poentje:

‘We hebben met belangstelling kennisgenomen van de uitspraken van Patrick van der Eem’, zegt Jorans advocaat Bert de Rooij. ‘Maar we willen eerst afwachten wat Van der Eem eerder tegenover de politie op Aruba heeft verklaard. We hebben nog steeds die verhoren niet. Als we ontdekken dat Van der Eem anders heeft verklaard dan in het off the record-gesprek met Tele Aruba, wat mij aannemelijk lijkt, of als hij dingen heeft achtergehouden, dan zal ik meteen contact opnemen met de Arubaanse officier van justitie en om opheldering vragen.’

It is with interest we've heard about the quotes given by Patrick van der Eem, says Jorans lawyer Bert de Rooij. But first we want to hear what he has stated to the police on Aruba. We still don't have his statement. If we find out if van der Eem made a different statement than in the off the record conversation with Tele Aruba, what seems plausible, or if he kept information to himself, than I will contact the public prosecutor of Aruba and ask for clarification.

Then a paragraph about dumping the body, the microphones / plants, hidden camera's, internet etc. Jorans lawyers reaction: intriguing.

De Rooij: ‘Ik kan me voorstellen dat justitie steeds ongelukkiger wordt met de ontwikkelingen in deze zaak. Inderdaad, dat is niet ongunstig voor Joran.’

De Rooij: I can imagine that the justice department is getting unhappier with the developments in this case. Indeed, this is not bad for Joran.

De advocaat wil ‘bevestigen noch ontkennen’ dat Joran in een psychiatrische inrichting zou zijn opgenomen. ‘Maar dat hij nog steeds is ondergedoken, is correct.’

The lawyer doesn't want to confirm nor deny that Joran in a psychiatric institution, but that he is still hiding is correct.


This was written by Stan de Jong & Koen Voskuil


Someone at the Fokforum said about this:

We still don't have his statement.


The Holloway family still doesn't have Jorans statements from the end of May - beginning of June 2005...maybe they could trade?

[katrien]

Then a paragraph about dumping the body, the microphones / plants, hidden camera's, internet etc. Jorans lawyers reaction: intriguing.

Very intriguing. It is supposed to be broadcasted tonight. So everybody will find out soon.

There are rumours they are going to keep the complete sentence of the bodydumping out of the interview.
Do you know whether this is true or not?

If they leave the sentence out, why would they do that?

But the interview not make any difference for Joran, he made his confessions over and over again. It does not make any difference to who he made his confessions, wheater is was the queen, a reporter or a criminal.
Joran knows what happened to Natalee.

[Nut44x4]

Instead of Natalee having convulsions on the beach, it is most likely that she had them while still in Deepak's car. It would explain car washing and Kalpoe involvement.

Gardener spotting with someone lying down in the back seat, a drive to the Sloot home (with a deceased body), blocked search warrants, computer manipulated (time stamped) searches for drugs + alcohol on the computer, etc.. would fit this timeline.

(see bold above) ...this would also explain why Satish asked him > "How's the girl"

[katrien]

Nobody forces Joran to make his confessions, we all can see and hear that.

[katrien]

GBMW sorry I got your name wrong. Maybe the moderator will delete the past post.

GBMW are your from the Stan the Jong and Nieuwe Revu and Poentje promotionteam? 

[Destiny]

Lawyers should never ask a Nederlands grandma a question if they aren't prepared for the answer.

In a trial, Jorg the prosecuting attorney called his first witness, a grandmotherly, elderly woman to the stand. He approached her and asked, 'Mrs. Anita, do you know me?' She responded, 'Why, yes, I do know you, Mr. Jorg. I've known you since you we re a boy, and frankly, you've been a big disappointment to me. You lie, you cheat on your wife, and you manipulate people and talk about them behind their backs. You think you're a big shot when you haven't the brains to realize you'll never amount to anything more than a two-bit paper pusher. Yes, I know you.'

The the lawyer was stunned. Not knowing what else to do, he pointed across the room and asked, 'Mrs. Anita, do you know the defense attorney?'

She again replied, 'Why yes, I do. I've known Mr. Sloot since he was a
youngster, too. He's lazy, bigoted, and he has a drinking problem. He can't build a normal relationship with anyone, and his law practice is one of the worst in the entire Amsterdam Area. Not to mention he cheated on his wife with three different women. One of them was your wife. Yes, I know him.'

The defense attorney nearly died.

The judge asked both counselors to approach the bench and, in a very quiet voice, said, 'If either of you idiots asks her if she knows me, I'll send you both to the electric chair.'

Shango says Guess who the Judge is

LOL

Now...That's funny...Thanks Caps, for my morning laugh...

[Blonde]

Instead of Natalee having convulsions on the beach, it is most likely that she had them while still in Deepak's car. It would explain car washing and Kalpoe involvement.

Gardener spotting with someone lying down in the back seat, a drive to the Sloot home (with a deceased body), blocked search warrants, computer manipulated (time stamped) searches for drugs + alcohol on the computer, etc.. would fit this timeline.

(see bold above) ...this would also explain why Satish asked him > "How's the girl"

Yes it would ,because a beach is a public area they thought no one would get arrested.