RBN # 16 - 6/21 thru 6/22

[air23ac]

ok.......if this letter is true......here are some details that may actually support it:

her friends just said on greta that she intoduced herself to joran, just as email stated

steven croes said natalie was dropped off at the HI, just as email stated

[melrose]

Some one help me out with this one.

Natalee's presumed 2 close friends just said that Natalee introduced herself to VDS at the black jack table? She is the one who made the introduction? Did I hear that correctly? Or did she do so after he may have said something to her? Would have been a nice follow up Greta, eh?

The friend actually said, "he wasn't flirting or anything" Natalee went up to him....

Wadn't there a post on here about a million words ago about Natalie trying to get cash from an atm machine for about 20 minutes the day before sehe left and was frustrated that she couldn't get any money?  If true the blackjack table scenerio with Joran seems believable

[JimL]

IF the letter is Deepak's, why the hell did their stories change?

Anyway guys, have to go to sleep.

Good night.

.

Where do we actually KNOW that their stories EVER CHANGED?

They could have let the Guards go to watch them, as they did the Boys'

A few points/questions from the email:

1.  He mentioned that when VDS and NH were in the backseat that he noticed that they were kissing, etc.  and he specifically said "nothing against Natalees will." This seems like an odd thing to mention, why would one assume it was against her will, since by his account she had decided to go with them.

2.  "when i arrived at the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a min only trafficlights)"   I'm confused here.  It sounds as if he is saying that they just sat in the car at the lighthouse, but it also sounds as if they left, then came back to get them.

3.  ."(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby)"  Interesting statement.  We know that this is not true now, but if they (the boys) thought that, it would explain why they thought it best to say they returned her there, thinking that there was no way to actually verify the story.

He's just so detailed in his account that it leads me to believe that this was, in fact, a made up story.  Much information since then has made it seem like this was the original story but that it's changed.  However, if he wasn't hiding something, WHY would they have this great, detailed story.

Agree with the strangeness of all 3 points, but especially #3.  Why would he have noticed if there was a camera or not in the lobby??  Who pays attention to that detail??  People are really fishing.....

Also, aggreed on the point of, why would he stress that nothing was against Natalie's will???

Lastly the point where he mentioned that his friend was a straight A student.  Why would he say that??? Strange....

Too many strange things to mention.....not believable, otherwise, it is could be the real "fabricated" story by the boys, which could make it very interesting....because the e-mail seems very rehearsed and if that was the case then the boys compiled this e-mail together (not physically)

[Kshe78]

IF the letter is Deepak's, why the hell did their stories change?

Anyway guys, have to go to sleep.

Good night.

.

Where do we actually KNOW that their stories EVER CHANGED?

They could have let the Guards go to watch them, as they did the Boys'

A few points/questions from the email:

1.  He mentioned that when VDS and NH were in the backseat that he noticed that they were kissing, etc.  and he specifically said "nothing against Natalees will." This seems like an odd thing to mention, why would one assume it was against her will, since by his account she had decided to go with them.

2.  "when i arrived at the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a min only trafficlights)"   I'm confused here.  It sounds as if he is saying that they just sat in the car at the lighthouse, but it also sounds as if they left, then came back to get them.

3.  ."(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby)"  Interesting statement.  We know that this is not true now, but if they (the boys) thought that, it would explain why they thought it best to say they returned her there, thinking that there was no way to actually verify the story.

He's just so detailed in his account that it leads me to believe that this was, in fact, a made up story.  Much information since then has made it seem like this was the original story but that it's changed.  However, if he wasn't hiding something, WHY would they have this great, detailed story.

GREAT post, don't want it to get lost.  A lot of what he says shows the mens rea factor -- or, as we Americans like to call it, CYA, CYA, CYA -- and trying to CYA before anyone's calling you on it is a sure sign of a guilty mind.

Thanks - that's exactly what I was trying to say, just didn't do it as succintly as you did.  

[Red]

Red - Wrote---"Where was the Greta question of why were not you worried when she did not come home that night? These were her roomates and best friends, right?"

I agree Totally. this does NOT add up. So her friends see her at the closing of the Bar with Joran, and they they say THEY WOULD NEVER let her Leave alone wiith him. But why did they?

 And More IMPORTANTLY wjhy did they Not do anything when she didnt come home that night? That does NOT add up. lots of explaining to do from someone. We are most likely Not geting the True Story here. Anyone would Have to admit that there are way too many inconsistancies in these accounts of what happened that night.

...
GuyWdog

I thought they both said that they didn't see her at the closing of the bar. One said she wasn't there and the other said she left an hour earlier.

Yes. Also, timelines with friends stories are not also conflicting with other friends.

Since the day BH landed and found out the information, it has been 1:30, two groups of people, people seeing her with Joran, BH even admitting she was with him. *sigh* I am not flaming etc but I am sorry over time everyone's story is changing. Almost manicured ::ducks for cover:: I am sorry but there's something seriously more wrong now.

Agree with CaliGirl on this one. These were supposedly Natalee's best friends? Mrs Red is southern and no way would a friend not look out after their friend. How do your best friends lose track of you?

[dragonfly]

Another point about the email that I noticed, and it may not mean anything, but something I noticed is that in this email Deepak "says" that they went to Joran's home, they sat there and talked for about 15 minutes, then off to C&C.  He does not mention that Joran snuck out and I for one would not sit around talking with my friends at my house for 15 minutes if I were sneaking out.  He also says Joran would not get up and dance with Nat, but the boy interviewed with Dash on FOX said that he saw Joran and Nat dancing.

[la_cavalière]

IF the letter is Deepak's, why the hell did their stories change?

Anyway guys, have to go to sleep.

Good night.

.

Where do we actually KNOW that their stories EVER CHANGED?

They could have let the Guards go to watch them, as they did the Boys'

A few points/questions from the email:

1.  He mentioned that when VDS and NH were in the backseat that he noticed that they were kissing, etc.  and he specifically said "nothing against Natalees will." This seems like an odd thing to mention, why would one assume it was against her will, since by his account she had decided to go with them.

2.  "when i arrived at the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a min only trafficlights)"   I'm confused here.  It sounds as if he is saying that they just sat in the car at the lighthouse, but it also sounds as if they left, then came back to get them.

3.  ."(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby)"  Interesting statement.  We know that this is not true now, but if they (the boys) thought that, it would explain why they thought it best to say they returned her there, thinking that there was no way to actually verify the story.

He's just so detailed in his account that it leads me to believe that this was, in fact, a made up story.  Much information since then has made it seem like this was the original story but that it's changed.  However, if he wasn't hiding something, WHY would they have this great, detailed story.

Just playing the Deepak advocate for a sec:

1. I'm sure he was hearing all the rumors and talk that the three raped Natalie, so he is reinforcing the fact that the makeout session between Natalee and Joran was consensual.

2.  This sounds like the version we heard before, that no one got out of the car at the lighthouse.

3.  Again, I'm sure he was hearing the reports that Natalee was not recorded on any hotel cameras, which made the three look very guilty, so he is bolstering his story by saying that there are no cameras in the driveway or lobby.

[klaasend]

was dropped off at HI, she would be the victim of a different crime with other suspects

Agreed. But there has not been, to my knowledge any indication that anyone else who was on the trip can corroborate that she was dropped off at the HI or anywhere else. So while the recollections of the other kids may have a strong human interest appeal, I don't see them as relevant to what happened to her after they saw her last.

Greta says Ma VDS says her son says he left NH on the beach.

An according to the "alleged" Deepak email, they dropped her off the the HI?  I don't believe anyone!

[WonderWoman]

IF the letter is Deepak's, why the hell did their stories change?

Anyway guys, have to go to sleep.

Good night.

.

Where do we actually KNOW that their stories EVER CHANGED?

They could have let the Guards go to watch them, as they did the Boys'

A few points/questions from the email:

1.  He mentioned that when VDS and NH were in the backseat that he noticed that they were kissing, etc.  and he specifically said "nothing against Natalees will." This seems like an odd thing to mention, why would one assume it was against her will, since by his account she had decided to go with them.

2.  "when i arrived at the lighthouse i said well here is the lighthouse they did not pay attention to me , so my brother said lets return (i did not stop anywhere not for a min only trafficlights)"   I'm confused here.  It sounds as if he is saying that they just sat in the car at the lighthouse, but it also sounds as if they left, then came back to get them.

3.  ."(holiday inn has no cameras in the driveway or lobby)"  Interesting statement.  We know that this is not true now, but if they (the boys) thought that, it would explain why they thought it best to say they returned her there, thinking that there was no way to actually verify the story.

He's just so detailed in his account that it leads me to believe that this was, in fact, a made up story.  Much information since then has made it seem like this was the original story but that it's changed.  However, if he wasn't hiding something, WHY would they have this great, detailed story.

Agree with the strangeness of all 3 points, but especially #3.  Why would he have noticed if there was a camera or not in the lobby??  Who pays attention to that detail??  People are really fishing.....

Also, aggreed on the point of, why would he stress that nothing was against Natalie's will???

Lastly the point where he mentioned that his friend was a straight A student.  Why would he say that??? Strange....

Too many strange things to mention.....not believable, otherwise, it is could be the real "fabricated" story by the boys, which could make it very interesting....because the e-mail seems very rehearsed and if that was the case then the boys compiled this e-mail together (not physically)

Becuase I think he is reiterating what he told police, and I'm sure they asked questions like was it against her will?  etc...

[LilOrphan]

I for one would hate to think that because of pressure from the United States/FBI/Holloways that these kids have been railroaded and that this entire time, another party is walking around out there with knowledge of either Natalee's murder or kidnapping.

Me too.

I just don't know what to think anymore.

It is a mess, and none of us knows anything - but Beth Holloway Twitty has to know much more than we do.  And she's convinced that these kids know more than what they're admitting. Frankly, so am I.  Their stories changed within a day or so of being taken into custody, and then Joran's changed a day after that. His mom's is different.  Steve Croes' story apparently doesn't match the latest.

I don't buy "pressure" being the reason. Anyone who was innocent over the age of 12 with such a detailed story would know that the truth is the only story you need, no matter what the cops say.  I know this firsthand, but will spare the details of how.

 Innocent people probably don't scrub their websites before being taken into custody,  either. All just IMO, of course.

[Hagie9]

I certainly am not a troll and all I want to do is to see Natlee come home but.....

Either these boys killed her and they know enough to know not to tell where the body is or....

they didn't do it....

I am so confused.

I'm almost beginning to wonder why (after 3 weeks) young boys wouldn't crack. It almost seems to me that these boys don't know....Like I said, I certainly am not a troll and I DEFINITELY want to see a happy ending to this story but nothing makes sense......

All I wish is that Natalee's mother would be able to bring her daughter home.....no matter what that means....she deserves closure......

[huntsy]

The part of the e mail that scared me the most was when he said he had not been sleeping much. Why not? b/c he was guilty of something?

I think we are not being told all the evidence they have (Police). Let's say they did drop her off and she went for a swim and drowned, then why don't they just let the boys go. It seems clear to me that they know only one scenario could have happended. So what exactly do they have that they can hold the boys. Also WTF can't they find her.

Sorry if the post sounds dumb but holy crap poor Natalee's family must be 100 times more frustrated than me.

[coco]

Amillerwvu - agreed! those Boston kids were there as people were searching for Natalie and they were completely nonchalant about the whole thing. And they were all "good kids" - class prez, etc.

The second night they had the mother and father of the girl who talked about "I was drinking sex on the beach of course, makes you want to have sex on the beach" and who mentioned that she had no idea where her buddy was - you'll remember the one I bet.  So her mom and dad are shown watching the tape - mom looked like the young lady was not going to enjoy her homecoming, dad kept smiling - I couldn't tell whether he was just embarassed or what but he said that she's a great kid, going to good college next year, etc and has a great sense of humour, wouldn't ever do anyting wrong, etc etc.

It was pretty disturbing - and I keep thinking about it as I read comments here about the VDS's being "bad parents".

[kuaitzu]

I read earlier news and posting that it was PVDS and his younger son came from Holland that Sunday. Can you imagine you just step off the plane earlier and 7 hours later, all hell breaks loose? Anyway so now its Anita that came from Holland...Someone throw me a bone, these stories changes so often

On Valentijns (Jorans younger brother) site..Tickle..he said..I'm going to Holland..and his friends yelled back...be good in Holland

So I would say it was PVDS and Valentijn who went to Holland. I'm assuming that Valentijn was an undergradute and might not have had extra tests like a senoir (Joran)might have had.

[nancy_drew]

was dropped off at HI, she would be the victim of a different crime with other suspects

Agreed. But there has not been, to my knowledge any indication that anyone else who was on the trip can corroborate that she was dropped off at the HI or anywhere else. So while the recollections of the other kids may have a strong human interest appeal, I don't see them as relevant to what happened to her after they saw her last.

Maybe arubagirl can swing by the HI and look for cameras and very what is said in the email.

I remember when Greta did her report where she showed us the lighthouse and stuff, she also went to the HI and walked in the lobby.  There were comments about what a big lobby entrance it is and how no one could be dropped off there without being seen because it's so big and open and there are employees in the lobby all night.  They really commented on how big the entrance was and how the cars pull right up to it.  They also looked around showing where cameras are hidden.

Also, Beth Twitty confirmed there are video cameras at the hotel.  She and her group viewed the tapes within a few hours of arriving in Aruba.

We need to figure out where else at the HI she could be dropped off.

Why?  We have no reason to believe she was dropped off in the front, much less at another entrance.  Maybe I missed a part of this discussion, but there seems no apparent reason to introduce another scenario that is not supported by any information available.

[RIBoy]

Has anyone thought about the possibility that one of the bartenders at CnC slips something into Natlee's drink.....there are several people who are in on it at CnC's and they trail wherever Natalee will be going from there.....All these boys have been used and criminal ring who pulled this off is getting away with this.

Last calls at any bar can be very rowdy and lots of pushing and bumping for the last drink.  Easy for one of them to do something without anyone noticing.  These bartenders all need to be interogated and I've had a strong feeling about that since I heard the story of her leaving there.

[kuaitzu]

I read earlier news and posting that it was PVDS and his younger son came from Holland that Sunday. Can you imagine you just step off the plane earlier and 7 hours later, all hell breaks loose? Anyway so now its Anita that came from Holland...Someone throw me a bone, these stories changes so often

On Valentijns (Jorans younger brother) site..Tickle..he said..I'm going to Holland..and his friends yelled back...be good in Holland

So I would say it was PVDS and Valentijn who went to Holland. I'm assuming that Valentijn was an undergradute and might not have had extra tests like a senoir (Joran)might have had.

[writenow]

Friend story tells us that Nat met him that night at the Casino.  Group was talking about going out.  He said Sunday night was not exciting.

Said group was talking about going to C and C.  He might or might not have had and specific invitation.  But he would have known that was where they were  headed.

He shows up.

On leaving.

One girl only stayed one hour apparently then came back to the hotel.


The other girls story fits.  Remember that Dash said she was in the last small group--kind of checking to be sure no one was left.  There was a group of students from the school in front of them.  Nat and Joran were between the two groups, behind the others.  They could have left and not have seen Natalee to know she was with Joran.

Wait a minute. Didn't Joran go to the soul festival on the beach that night, too? Remember we found that website of his with all the pictures of the soul festival which he'd posted after Natalee disappeared? The ones where he just kept shouting down women's lowcut tops? Why would the email make it sound like Joran was at home the whole night when he'd been at the soul festival? If he knew he was going to hook up at CnC's, he wouldn't go home just to come back. Doesn't make sense.

[nikkibnurse]

ok, i am ducking for cover..please dont attack me ok? I am about, for one second, to become someone i have often bashed...
I know that Nats friends are just kids by all accounts, and that they have never been on national TV, interviewed, gone through this, etc..
BUT, did anyone else, besides me, find it strange that they were almost laughing tonight?Big smiles...almost evasive?
If this were my best friend, I would be crying at the mention of her name...
I have all the respect of the MB kids..sometimes, however, things just seem odd with their demeanor...except for Dash..lol
<wiping tomatoes off face and other unmentionables that were just flung at me>

[Perforator]

Both absolut and I work for one of the more esteemed technology institutions in the US, as Red and Tom can tell you.  Even if you had the headers from this forwarded email, you would not be able to trace the IP's all the way back to its original source, unless you forensically dissected each hard drive along the way, and there's no guarentee you'd get what you needed.  

I don't work for a more esteemed technology institution but I do work in the IT field.
If your using Outlook as your email client and you click View-Options I GUARANTEE it will list all ip addresses that the email took to get to you.
Unless this guy was doing ip spoofing (which I highly doubt) it will list the ip addresses so you are incorrect RB.