Lively Case Discussion #490 7/9 - 7/10/2006

[Sleuth]

Does Paul have a job?

I am intrigued that you call him Paul. I have read many threads here and in other places that call him Paulus.......PLUS, if I remember correctly, there was a video somewhere of even Anita calling him Paulus'....not Paul. I am sure Klaas has that on file. Then recently I read that his name is not paulus, and that he should be called paul. NOT that this info is important in anyway........but it is interesting. I DO REMEMBER in one interview that even ANITA called him PAULUS.....not paul....anyone else remember that??

Nut44x4 - In the Greta interview with Anita and Paulus/Paul (I've always referred to him as Paulus), the transcripts used "Paul".  I'm going to listen to the audio again and see if I hear Paul or Paulus.  

Leslie posted the link to the interview a page or two back (thanks Leslie)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160471,00.html

[Buckeye]

Klaas

At Joran's bday party at KIA, I remember Jaime and Sander in pics in the parking lot.  Was Koen or Freddy there??  Do I remember this correctly??

[Ono]

Sleuth:

Thanks for that picture. Lots of treacherous-looking rocks, that's for sure. And so close to Koen's.

[Nut44x4]

I go back and forth but right now I am leaning toward 2K telling the truth that they actually went to the lighthouse not Joran's house.  In Deepak's June 9 statement he said they turned left off LG Smith toward Choose A Name, if they were going to Joran's house they would have just kept going in that direction.  However Deepak said they then circled around to get back on the main road, and that at 1:20 when they passed back thru the intersection where they encountered the MB kids before, the MB kids were no longer there.  How did he know they weren't still there unless he did turn around, and why take the chance of being contradicted on that by the MB kids, when he didn't need to say they turned around to go to the lighthouse, he could have just said they got back on the main road somewhere past Choose A Name.  There are other little things too, like Deepak saying Satish put in the porno when they reached La Cabana, La Cabana is on the main road, they wouldn't pass it going to Joran's house.  And in one of the statements Art Wood gave to the NE it said one of the suspects got out to relieve themselves at Arashi beach (contradicting Deepak's original statement hat they didn't stop), was that said in case someone saw the car parked.  Joran first mentioned stopping at his house in order to incriminate 2K, as part of his 2nd story, that 2K droped him off at his house and drove off with Nat.  Maybe even after he changed his story to agree with 2K on the M beach dropoff, he just decided to stick with saying they went to his house for some reason, perhaps because he didn't want to admit lying about that, and to counter the idea that Nat thought he was staying at the HI.  

If they did take Nat to the lighthouse/Arashi beach, whatever happened there Nat had to still be alive when she left, because it's not plausable that Deepak would have been home chatting on his computer just minutes after witnessing her death.  Unless Deepak went home leaving her alive with Joran and/or Satish on Arashi beach, but that doesn't make much sense.

..
Over at BFN, there is the English translation of the Dutch version of AMW, the show that Holland did. In the show, they did mention going to the lighthouse. Deepak said, I guess in one of his statements that they stopped the car at Arashi Beach on the way back from the lighthouse as one of them had to relieve themselves. I don't know what the distance is from C & C's to the lighthouse. The car was spotted in front of Diamonds International on a camera at 1:18 ? it was said.
They were looking at quite a few different locations and also wanted any info from anyone who saw the car on hte way to Joran's.

In my opinion...that whole fiasco of the Dutch re-enactment was for show. So much was not even real, as far as we all know now as being truth. I do not trust Aruban/Dutch, period. They played that out carefully......there was a reason for that.

[Easywriter]

Does Paul have a job?

I am intrigued that you call him Paul. I have read many threads here and in other places that call him Paulus.......PLUS, if I remember correctly, there was a video somewhere of even Anita calling him Paulus'....not Paul. I am sure Klaas has that on file. Then recently I read that his name is not paulus, and that he should be called paul. NOT that this info is important in anyway........but it is interesting. I DO REMEMBER in one interview that even ANITA called him PAULUS.....not paul....anyone else remember that??

Funny you should mention that.  Early on a friend of mine in Aruba would always refer to him as Paul.  I asked about that and was told most people called him Paul.  I guess it is kind of like Michael and Mike.  My wives always called me Michael for some reason, but friends call me Mike or a$$hole.  

[Ono]

Klaas

At Joran's bday party at KIA, I remember Jaime and Sander in pics in the parking lot.  Was Koen or Freddy there??  Do I remember this correctly??

Don't remember Koen or Freddy being there, but it's been a long time since seeing those pictures.

[Easywriter]

I go back and forth but right now I am leaning toward 2K telling the truth that they actually went to the lighthouse not Joran's house.  In Deepak's June 9 statement he said they turned left off LG Smith toward Choose A Name, if they were going to Joran's house they would have just kept going in that direction.  However Deepak said they then circled around to get back on the main road, and that at 1:20 when they passed back thru the intersection where they encountered the MB kids before, the MB kids were no longer there.  How did he know they weren't still there unless he did turn around, and why take the chance of being contradicted on that by the MB kids, when he didn't need to say they turned around to go to the lighthouse, he could have just said they got back on the main road somewhere past Choose A Name.  There are other little things too, like Deepak saying Satish put in the porno when they reached La Cabana, La Cabana is on the main road, they wouldn't pass it going to Joran's house.  And in one of the statements Art Wood gave to the NE it said one of the suspects got out to relieve themselves at Arashi beach (contradicting Deepak's original statement hat they didn't stop), was that said in case someone saw the car parked.  Joran first mentioned stopping at his house in order to incriminate 2K, as part of his 2nd story, that 2K droped him off at his house and drove off with Nat.  Maybe even after he changed his story to agree with 2K on the M beach dropoff, he just decided to stick with saying they went to his house for some reason, perhaps because he didn't want to admit lying about that, and to counter the idea that Nat thought he was staying at the HI.  

If they did take Nat to the lighthouse/Arashi beach, whatever happened there Nat had to still be alive when she left, because it's not plausable that Deepak would have been home chatting on his computer just minutes after witnessing her death.  Unless Deepak went home leaving her alive with Joran and/or Satish on Arashi beach, but that doesn't make much sense.

..
Over at BFN, there is the English translation of the Dutch version of AMW, the show that Holland did. In the show, they did mention going to the lighthouse. Deepak said, I guess in one of his statements that they stopped the car at Arashi Beach on the way back from the lighthouse as one of them had to relieve themselves. I don't know what the distance is from C & C's to the lighthouse. The car was spotted in front of Diamonds International on a camera at 1:18 ? it was said.
They were looking at quite a few different locations and also wanted any info from anyone who saw the car on hte way to Joran's.

In my opinion...that whole fiasco of the Dutch re-enactment was for show. So much was not even real, as far as we all know now as being truth. I do not trust Aruban/Dutch, period. They played that out carefully......there was a reason for that.

That whole Dutch re-enactment was a load of Van Der Sh@t!

[ldstlou]

ok....2:30 gardener sees them by the pond. 3 boys in the car...Dave says in his book..they may have been taking turns with her in the back seat...aaahhh!! makes me cringe putting it down in writing...my heart hurts!!

From there...head back to Joran's...phone records show he was 1st in vicinity of pond...then at home at 3am-ish...and Natalee gets her phone call in...could she have hit her head in the car?! Makes sense to me...thus the blood in the car...can't take her back to her hotel injured...so they take her back to Joran's to clean her up. If she wakes up in the car and begins to struggle...then very possible she hurt her self right there at the pond where they were all seen...also would coincide with statements that she fell or stumbled out of car "at hotel" and Joran getting out to help her.

ok...also strange Deepak brings up...was it in e-mail?...that she had fallen asleep in the car...so they drive up to lighthouse...there for a short time...she passes out...they intend to take her back to her hotel but decide to 1st pull in behind the pond and take advantage of her while she is passed out. She comes to...puts up a struggle..falls out of the car and hits her head...then they head back to Joran's to get her cleaned up.

[Leslie]

Here is the website for the law firm that Antonio Carlos works for:
http://www.sjiemfat.com/
I guess listing PVDS would be embarrassing

[Sleuth]

Sleuth:

Thanks for that picture. Lots of treacherous-looking rocks, that's for sure. And so close to Koen's.

Yes.  Aruba has a huge contrast in beaches for such a small island.  Palm Beach (where the HI is, it is like a huge flat, shallow pool with no waves).  Eagle Beach to the south (LaCabana area, for example) has more waves (not for surfing, but more wave action than Palm).   Both Palm and Eagle are hard sand bottoms and great for swimming - no rocks, dropoffs, sandbars.  Then when you get up toward Malmok you get the rock coves - these areas are great for snorkeling, etc.

[whytegirl]

I'm going to go wash the cobwebs out of my head.
Hiya' Whyte! I miss Tink, too. I hope the avatars will be back soon.

Easy............I, too, would like to know about Joran's summer job on Aruba. It surprises me he would choose to come back, but maybe it's cheaper on his parents to house him at home. I wonder who would hire him.
They could always hire him out in a freak show.

Have a great one, Monkeys!

Tee hee!  Carlo's office of course!

[Easywriter]

I have a theory:  Joran killed Natalee.  Paulus disposed of the body.  Kalpoes were warned to keep quiet, or pay the price.

[Kat_Gram]

Sleuth wrote:
mishy wrote:
I will add that I was taking a computer class on the morning that Natalee missed her flight and my instructor was a Mtn Brook mom, who had just received word about Natalee on her email and told me about it. She said whoever emailed her said that they were searching for a "father and son" in relation to her disappearance...

It was weeks later when I heard speculation on the blogs or MSM that a "father" might have been involved...do I have that timeline right?


WOW Mishy, if that instructor had that on the day Natalee went missing, I wonder who she received the email from. If it was the morning Natalee went missing, that would have been PRIOR to Beth and Jug arriving and visiting the VDS property.

Spooky wrote:

wasnt that posted on that first tripadvisor post by the wife of one of the chaperones? i could be wrong. does anyone have those posts handy?

Does anybody else remember this tripadvisor post Spooky was talking about? I never went to tripadvisor...
_________________

... I went to RWV and got this, but it is not a copy of the original.
begin:
Also, Aruba and Travel Advisory message boards are abuzz over the disappearance, and one poster purportedly from Alabama posted the curious post below.

Alert: Just wanted to warn everyone: My best friend and her husband chaperoneed a senior trip of 160 kids down to Aruba, and she returned last night. Her husband had to stay b/c they think that one of the girls was kidnapped, and is possibly in Venezuela now. Her parents flew down, and the State Dept., DEA and several other groups are involved now. She left with a guy from Carlos and Charlie's, and the cops found out that he is a local drug dealer. Just wanted to let everyone know to please stay safe. If anyone in Aruba has any info., please let me know. I should know more later today. Just please say a prayer.

The above would fit with details in a report here claiming there were "disturbing" circumstances surrounding the disappearance which resulted in a request for ten additional agents of the FBI, now in Aruba. However, it should be noted that the bullentin board message can not be verified as genuine, or credible.

There was also another unconfirmed bullentin board report that some forensic evidence was gathered from a vehicle associated with the three men. It is known that at least some of the additional FBI support now involved in the search would be capable of evaluating such evidence; however, that is not unusual.

This post is also available at Blogger News Network.

end.

this was from the FP over there, dated June 5, 2005

[ldstlou]

I have a theory:  Joran killed Natalee.  Paulus disposed of the body.  Kalpoes were warned to keep quiet, or pay the price.

cut that out Easy!!! My eyes are the worse!!! haha

[beachwego]

I don't think Natalee wanted to see the "big house" or "sharks" or wanted to have sex with the "exchange student" from Holland.  She wanted to go back to her hotel with the Dutch kid who was also staying at the hotel.

Me too.  Everything else just clouds the issue and gets us off on wild goose chases....that always end up back where we started.      

[Nut44x4]

I'm going to go wash the cobwebs out of my head.
Hiya' Whyte! I miss Tink, too. I hope the avatars will be back soon.

Easy............I, too, would like to know about Joran's summer job on Aruba. It surprises me he would choose to come back, but maybe it's cheaper on his parents to house him at home. I wonder who would hire him.
They could always hire him out in a freak show.

Have a great one, Monkeys!

Tee hee!  Carlo's office of course!

 Perhaps he is HEAD DONG at the VIP club. ACKKKKKKKK!!

[whytegirl]

I go back and forth but right now I am leaning toward 2K telling the truth that they actually went to the lighthouse not Joran's house.  In Deepak's June 9 statement he said they turned left off LG Smith toward Choose A Name, if they were going to Joran's house they would have just kept going in that direction.  However Deepak said they then circled around to get back on the main road, and that at 1:20 when they passed back thru the intersection where they encountered the MB kids before, the MB kids were no longer there.  How did he know they weren't still there unless he did turn around, and why take the chance of being contradicted on that by the MB kids, when he didn't need to say they turned around to go to the lighthouse, he could have just said they got back on the main road somewhere past Choose A Name.  There are other little things too, like Deepak saying Satish put in the porno when they reached La Cabana, La Cabana is on the main road, they wouldn't pass it going to Joran's house.  And in one of the statements Art Wood gave to the NE it said one of the suspects got out to relieve themselves at Arashi beach (contradicting Deepak's original statement hat they didn't stop), was that said in case someone saw the car parked.  Joran first mentioned stopping at his house in order to incriminate 2K, as part of his 2nd story, that 2K droped him off at his house and drove off with Nat.  Maybe even after he changed his story to agree with 2K on the M beach dropoff, he just decided to stick with saying they went to his house for some reason, perhaps because he didn't want to admit lying about that, and to counter the idea that Nat thought he was staying at the HI.  

If they did take Nat to the lighthouse/Arashi beach, whatever happened there Nat had to still be alive when she left, because it's not plausable that Deepak would have been home chatting on his computer just minutes after witnessing her death.  Unless Deepak went home leaving her alive with Joran and/or Satish on Arashi beach, but that doesn't make much sense.

Would've been on the C n' C video cam twice.

[whytegirl]

......attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

   

I've heard about putting lipstick on a pig, but the silk purse is new to me  

  No comprendo!

[Ono]

Sleuth:

Thanks for that picture. Lots of treacherous-looking rocks, that's for sure. And so close to Koen's.

Yes.  Aruba has a huge contrast in beaches for such a small island.  Palm Beach (where the HI is, it is like a huge flat, shallow pool with no waves).  Eagle Beach to the south (LaCabana area, for example) has more waves (not for surfing, but more wave action than Palm).   Both Palm and Eagle are hard sand bottoms and great for swimming - no rocks, dropoffs, sandbars.  Then when you get up toward Malmok you get the rock coves - these areas are great for snorkeling, etc.

A treasure trove of variety, for sure.

[whytegirl]

Does Paul have a job?

Paulus?  YES he works for the same Law firm now as Joran's lawyer Carlos.

A total dishonor to the Bar.