Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25 - 4/4/08

[crazybabyborg]

I'm trying to figure out why a voluntary admission might be reason for Joran not to answer. Voluntary admission means voluntary discharge. I would think there would be some compromise on timing if someone were admitted to any hospital based on emergency or dire health, but the voluntary nature of this shouldn't hold up. Something else strikes me as really odd too. If he's been in this facility all this time, that's an incredibly long time to stay voluntarily. I don't know what their health system is, but unless you had a money tree, and a BIG one, in this country, it just would not happen!

He's diagnosis there is chronic "SAVE MY ASS!"

[ldstlou]

Rob ... there are so many aspect of that Pauw & Witteman interview with Joran that I find very troubling.  I am inclined to believe that Joran was very compliance in regards to the outcome of the video recording revelation ... an outcome that had an objective but ... an outcome that that implied there would be no legal consequences.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Joran Van der Sloot
Pauw & Witteman
(Phone Interview/Grandma's house)
February 4, 2008

Joran:  Yes, well everyone will see it this Sunday, ha ha ha , but I can easily proof that what I said is not true, it's a whole lot about nothing ...

Well, I would hate to think Godfather Peter R would do anything that would jeopardize the case. And I have no idea how Joran was going  to proof anything. Van Der Straaten linked him to the area he says he was and during the exact same time. Van Der Straaten nails him with his bogus cell phone triangulation.

Not that I believe any of that and still believe it was all at the Sloot murder compound. But the available evidence nails Joran's ass to the wall. And so much for the abducted twice in one night theory proposed by Anita.

If Joran was being followed by the KLPD or some other investigative body, it is theoretical that Mos did know Patrick was doing something... but he might not know what. He would know Patrick was hanging out with Joran and could even know Patrick had a previous record.... but then again, all the suspects were released when the got their letters. The could not be followed, tapped, or harassed.

hard to know what really happened.

Interesting Mos never mentioned that they were aware of what Peter R was doing when he made all of his statements.

Rob ... the following quote implies the the Dutch knew about Patrick's intentions early on.

However ... I have a quote saved somewhere that quotes Hans Mos.  Hans Mos states that Patrick came to him just prior to the November, 2007 detentions of Joran, Deepak and Satish.  Hans claimed that he told Patrick that the operation would have to be independent of the Prosecutor's office.

I will try to locate that quote.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Wednesday, February 06, 2008

Joran and OM talk tomorrow in the Netherlands

ORANJESTAD – The conversation between Joran van der Sloot and the Public Prosecutor (OM) will most probably take place in the Netherlands tomorrow, said Joran’s lawyer Ariean de Bie.  Van der Sloot indicated last Monday that he is willing to be interrogated again by the police. According to Van der Eem, Joran continued to bombard him with email and sms until the day of the disclosure. 

After he had met Joran in a poker game in the casino, Van der Eem had approached the Dutch police last year with the suggestion to unmask him.  Justice questions the fact that he had given himself up.  Due to the fact that there is no law for special powers to investigate (BOB), deploy a civil informant in Aruba is unfortunately impossible, but this is different in the Netherlands.  Using police-informants is possible, but with ‘a lot of trouble’.  “But that is going to change”, said an insider in the OM.  “A BOB law is in the make and will probably be presented soon.”

http://amigoe.com/english/

 

I read that as well.  j/b

What I find so frustrating is that Peter Devries/Patrick van der Eem as well as ... the the crew of the Persistence .... just do not get it!  In their sincere quest for justice for Natalee Holloway ... in their naïveté they align themselves with those who are responsible for the coverup.

This is why I cannot trust that VDS' were not forewarned while Joran was detained in December, 2007 about the forthcoming "fifth segment".  How do Peter Devries and Patrick van der Eem know that there was not a collaborated plan in regards to what Joran would say to Patrick while fully realizing that he was being record.

I suspect that the plan was that Joran would implicate "only" himself and ... distance all other who were involved or aware of the coverup.  He was assured that he would not be held legally responsible.  However ... it was hoped that the outcome would be that Natalee's family would give up their quest for justice when they were given a measure of closure.

Janet

+++++++++

Arubans wary of fifth car trip in Holloway case
Monday 25 February 2008
 
Dutch tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries set up a fifth car trip to try and get Joran van der Sloot to confess to murdering US teenager Natalee Holloway after the Aruban public prosecution department said the original four recordings did not contain enough evidence, the Volkskrant reported on Saturday.
 
Aruban officials told De Vries and his team at a secret hotel meeting that the tapes did not contain enough new evidence, the paper says in a reconstruction of events surrounding the tv programme which claimed to solve the mystery of her disappearance.

Aruban public prosecutor Hans Mos told the paper he did not want to have anything to do with the extra car trip because he was afraid it could be construed as entrapment and blow the case.
 
The final car trip with Van der Sloot and his 'friend' Patrick van der Eem took place on January 29 in a borrowed car which had been hastily kitted out with recording equipment, the paper said. The original had already been sold.

During that trip, Van der Sloot said he was not sure if Natalee had been dead when a friend dumped her body at sea.  After the press release was issued claiming the case had been solved but without giving any further details, De Vries told the paper he hoped that Van der Sloot would again phone his 'friend'.
 
But website VKMag picked up a page on De Vries' website which identified Van der Sloot. The page had been prepared for release after the programme was aired on Sunday but had gone live by mistake.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php

I can see your frustration 110%...but I think they HAD to play nice with the aruban authorities to have any hope of having any evidence they might find admitted in court. It's the catch 22 poor Beth has been dealing with from day one. You HAVE to deal with the aruban azzholes, but you can't reasonably deal with the sruban azzholes!!!

[ldstlou]

I'm trying to figure out why a voluntary admission might be reason for Joran not to answer. Voluntary admission means voluntary discharge. I would think there would be some compromise on timing if someone were admitted to any hospital based on emergency or dire health, but the voluntary nature of this shouldn't hold up. Something else strikes me as really odd too. If he's been in this facility all this time, that's an incredibly long time to stay voluntarily. I don't know what their health system is, but unless you had a money tree, and a BIG one, in this country, it just would not happen!

He's diagnosis there is chronic "SAVE MY ASS!"

CBB!!! you have NO IDEA!!! how you have brightened my last two days with my avi!!! Still rain and cold and flooding here in St Louis...so have been coming to SM for a taste of spring!!!
thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!!!

[crazybabyborg]

Glad you like it, Idstlou! 

Hey Everybody, check out the link in my signature line for your avatars! (OK, no more O/T!) 

[Dayhiker]

I'm trying to figure out why a voluntary admission might be reason for Joran not to answer. Voluntary admission means voluntary discharge. I would think there would be some compromise on timing if someone were admitted to any hospital based on emergency or dire health, but the voluntary nature of this shouldn't hold up. Something else strikes me as really odd too. If he's been in this facility all this time, that's an incredibly long time to stay voluntarily. I don't know what their health system is, but unless you had a money tree, and a BIG one, in this country, it just would not happen!

He's diagnosis there is chronic "SAVE MY ASS!"

CBB, he's doing the same thing he was doing when he sat in KIA for three months IMO. He is being protected. No way that murderous jackass would put himself into a mental institution if he wasn't trying to save his hide. This is a legal manuever.

[klaasend]

Dan will be on Dana Pretzer towards the end of the show to talk about the Houston Travel show.

[ldstlou]

Glad you like it, Idstlou! 

Hey Everybody, check out the link in my signature line for your avatars! (OK, no more O/T!) 

you are the best CBB.
Klaas...sent you a little update...check your e-mail.
Monkeys...night all...my little guy is calling me to snuggle. Sweet dreams!!!

[ldstlou]

Dan will be on Dana Pretzer towards the end of the show to talk about the Houston Travel show.

oops...have to stay awake now for a bit longer!!

[Dayhiker]

Glad you like it, Idstlou! 

Hey Everybody, check out the link in my signature line for your avatars! (OK, no more O/T!) 

Well lookee here, you got me a horse. Thanks CBB! I like my rocket too so I might switch rides from time to time.

[ldstlou]

Glad you like it, Idstlou! 

Hey Everybody, check out the link in my signature line for your avatars! (OK, no more O/T!) 

Well lookee here, you got me a horse. Thanks CBB! I like my rocket too so I might switch rides from time to time.

nice ride dayhiker..teehee

[crazybabyborg]

I'm trying to figure out why a voluntary admission might be reason for Joran not to answer. Voluntary admission means voluntary discharge. I would think there would be some compromise on timing if someone were admitted to any hospital based on emergency or dire health, but the voluntary nature of this shouldn't hold up. Something else strikes me as really odd too. If he's been in this facility all this time, that's an incredibly long time to stay voluntarily. I don't know what their health system is, but unless you had a money tree, and a BIG one, in this country, it just would not happen!

He's diagnosis there is chronic "SAVE MY ASS!"

CBB, he's doing the same thing he was doing when he sat in KIA for three months IMO. He is being protected. No way that murderous jackass would put himself into a mental institution if he wasn't trying to save his hide. This is a legal manuever.

Absotively!! Some of those places, at least in this country, are sort of high browed and really not like you the stereotypical "Mental Institution". However, they all have strict routines and they all have professionally trained people who tend to see more clearly behind what you're trying to project. I don't think he'd like it there. I also think a really nice side benefit is that it's been a good way to keep him from flapping his mouth publically.

[Tamikosmom]

I'm trying to figure out why a voluntary admission might be reason for Joran not to answer. Voluntary admission means voluntary discharge. I would think there would be some compromise on timing if someone were admitted to any hospital based on emergency or dire health, but the voluntary nature of this shouldn't hold up. Something else strikes me as really odd too. If he's been in this facility all this time, that's an incredibly long time to stay voluntarily. I don't know what their health system is, but unless you had a money tree, and a BIG one, in this country, it just would not happen!

He's diagnosis there is chronic "SAVE MY ASS!"

CBB, he's doing the same thing he was doing when he sat in KIA for three months IMO. He is being protected. No way that murderous jackass would put himself into a mental institution if he wasn't trying to save his hide. This is a legal manuever.

Joran van der Sloot
Joran's Book
June 13, 2005

Page 156
Jan van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental institution. You only will have to tell the truth.
Translator - Johanna (BFN)

[ldstlou]

I'm trying to figure out why a voluntary admission might be reason for Joran not to answer. Voluntary admission means voluntary discharge. I would think there would be some compromise on timing if someone were admitted to any hospital based on emergency or dire health, but the voluntary nature of this shouldn't hold up. Something else strikes me as really odd too. If he's been in this facility all this time, that's an incredibly long time to stay voluntarily. I don't know what their health system is, but unless you had a money tree, and a BIG one, in this country, it just would not happen!

He's diagnosis there is chronic "SAVE MY ASS!"

CBB, he's doing the same thing he was doing when he sat in KIA for three months IMO. He is being protected. No way that murderous jackass would put himself into a mental institution if he wasn't trying to save his hide. This is a legal manuever.

Absotively!! Some of those places, at least in this country, are sort of high browed and really not like you the stereotypical "Mental Institution". However, they all have strict routines and they all have professionally trained people who tend to see more clearly behind what you're trying to project. I don't think he'd like it there. I also think a really nice side benefit is that it's been a good way to keep him from flapping his mouth publically.

if I had a daughter in the institute I would take her out of there knowing the azzhole was there!!! Easy prey to him!!!

Story on Dana's show is so sad!!!

[Dayhiker]

I can see your frustration 110%...but I think they HAD to play nice with the aruban authorities to have any hope of having any evidence they might find admitted in court. It's the catch 22 poor Beth has been dealing with from day one. You HAVE to deal with the aruban azzholes, but you can't reasonably deal with the sruban azzholes!!!

Never has been, never will be, no way ever will this case be prosecuted by the Dutch Arubans. The only way it will ever be prosecuted is from Holland. It has to be directed by Holland and consumated by Holland. The Dutch on Aruba never intended on prosecuting the case and will only do so upon threat of penalty from their bosses in Holland. That goes for Prosecutors and Judges. They rigged it against Natalee and now they can rig it against the Van der Sloots. Their system is flexible and corruptible enough to work either way.

[ldstlou]

I'm trying to figure out why a voluntary admission might be reason for Joran not to answer. Voluntary admission means voluntary discharge. I would think there would be some compromise on timing if someone were admitted to any hospital based on emergency or dire health, but the voluntary nature of this shouldn't hold up. Something else strikes me as really odd too. If he's been in this facility all this time, that's an incredibly long time to stay voluntarily. I don't know what their health system is, but unless you had a money tree, and a BIG one, in this country, it just would not happen!

He's diagnosis there is chronic "SAVE MY ASS!"

CBB, he's doing the same thing he was doing when he sat in KIA for three months IMO. He is being protected. No way that murderous jackass would put himself into a mental institution if he wasn't trying to save his hide. This is a legal manuever.

Joran van der Sloot
Joran's Book
June 13, 2005

Page 156
Jan van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental institution. You only will have to tell the truth.
Translator - Johanna (BFN)

isn't that something tam? a bit ironic too.

[Tamikosmom]

cbb ... July 1st is Canada Day ... equivilent to the American July 4th.  Maybe you could put a small Canadian flag is my hand.  I will hold on tight to it while Ducky and I soar over the magnificent Canadian landscape.

Thank you.

Janet

[ldstlou]

I can see your frustration 110%...but I think they HAD to play nice with the aruban authorities to have any hope of having any evidence they might find admitted in court. It's the catch 22 poor Beth has been dealing with from day one. You HAVE to deal with the aruban azzholes, but you can't reasonably deal with the sruban azzholes!!!

Never has been, never will be, no way ever will this case be prosecuted by the Dutch Arubans. The only way it will ever be prosecuted is from Holland. It has to be directed by Holland and consumated by Holland. The Dutch on Aruba never intended on prosecuting the case and will only do so upon threat of penalty from their bosses in Holland. That goes for Prosecutors and Judges. They rigged it against Natalee and now they can rig it against the Van der Sloots. Their system is flexible and corruptible enough to work either way.

I agree.
WE know that...but I believe the members of the Persistance and even DeVries were like we once were...they believed in the "system".
Didn't work

[crazybabyborg]

I'm trying to figure out why a voluntary admission might be reason for Joran not to answer. Voluntary admission means voluntary discharge. I would think there would be some compromise on timing if someone were admitted to any hospital based on emergency or dire health, but the voluntary nature of this shouldn't hold up. Something else strikes me as really odd too. If he's been in this facility all this time, that's an incredibly long time to stay voluntarily. I don't know what their health system is, but unless you had a money tree, and a BIG one, in this country, it just would not happen!

He's diagnosis there is chronic "SAVE MY ASS!"

CBB, he's doing the same thing he was doing when he sat in KIA for three months IMO. He is being protected. No way that murderous jackass would put himself into a mental institution if he wasn't trying to save his hide. This is a legal manuever.

Joran van der Sloot
Joran's Book
June 13, 2005

Page 156
Jan van der Straaten, head commissar of the police, talked to me after lunch around 1 pm, informally at the police station in Oranjestad. He said: Joran, I have known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland. That you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed in a mental institution. You only will have to tell the truth.
Translator - Johanna (BFN)

Thank you Tamik.........you always have what's relevent right in front of us! I was just thinking about that conversation! I'm curious if his "stay" is really voluntary. I'd think anyone, including his parents and Tacky would have a tough time keeping him there. His ego has no limits and I'm sure he's re-gained his confidence about this case never being able to touch him. 

[Dayhiker]

CBB, he's doing the same thing he was doing when he sat in KIA for three months IMO. He is being protected. No way that murderous jackass would put himself into a mental institution if he wasn't trying to save his hide. This is a legal manuever.

Absotively!! Some of those places, at least in this country, are sort of high browed and really not like you the stereotypical "Mental Institution". However, they all have strict routines and they all have professionally trained people who tend to see more clearly behind what you're trying to project. I don't think he'd like it there. I also think a really nice side benefit is that it's been a good way to keep him from flapping his mouth publically.

Sit back and watch. The Dutch system is on trial here. If they find him nuts and unfit for trial in Holland you can rest assure the cover-up goes all the way to the Hague. We know good and damn well he's not nuts, he's a cold, calculating murderer.

[Tamikosmom]

cbb ... July 1st is Canada Day ... equivilent to the American July 4th.  Maybe you could put a small Canadian flag is my hand.  I will hold on tight to it while Ducky and I soar over the magnificent Canadian landscape.

Thank you.

Janet

The lilly can go but please it in water ... I want it back next Easter.

 

Janet