Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006

[GreatOwl]

How Sad!!!!!   I still read every day and remember many of the discussions from over  a year ago.  I see the same things discussed over and over and nothing has changed.  The investigation has reached a "critical stage" how many times now.  Arrests will come in 24 to 28  hours?  The case will be solved in "a few days."

Those who have followed this thread for over a year know that crime on Aruba has either increased one thousand times or it was probably never recorded and reported during past years.  I do question that this island is safer than other vacation locations or even cities in the United States.

Hiding crime is a crime and it is evident that this goes on not only on Aruba, but all over the Carribean.

[sharon]

Before pvds Can Get To Them

Klaas says: "...I believe Sharon was saying and Hammer was agreeing that statements made by any of the suspects or reports of what they said prior to their meeting to make up their stories will hold more truth..."

EXACTLY.

Is ther any corroboration of headmaster's reporting re: "head and rocks at beach"?

AND where does POOL story come from?

Hammer -- thank you.

And Klaas! And of course, the notorious and infamous Granny Toad who keeps saying 'go back to the very first story'. Which would be what we 'heard' from ISA headmaster. We think.

Joran tells a story the very next morning in school (so we are told) that prompted a call to his mother (even though she was still in Holland) to tell her to shut her kid up.

The very same evening we have a different variation (maybe) of the story as told to Jug and his frineds -- that is not documented and NO ONE recollects (excepts the MB group).

I remember when this first 'broke' about swimming and hitting her head on rocks -- Arubagirl on this site said that the story was not believable. That you don't go 'swimming' and oops! hit your head on a rock. She said if this was true -- Natalee had help hitting her head, or else they were somewhere that was way too dangerous for swimming.

I can't take any credit for these thoughts -- I'm just agreeing with Granny Toad who keeps saying -- let's start with the very first 'story'.

Hammer -- parts of this same story came from a retail store owner in the Carolina's? Who was a friend and former neighbor of Paul? And he told her the story??? I think that might be where 'pool' came from -- but that's just from memory.

Good morning monkeys! Justice for Natalee!!!!!

[klaasend]

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315
Published on: 07/15/2005
HOW NATALEE WAS KILLED

By DON GENTILE

Dutch teenager Joran van der Sloot confessed to his father that he dumped Natalee Holloway's body in shark-infested waters after she accidentally hit her head and drowned in a drug-induced stupor on an Aruban beach.

This stunning new theory from inside the police investigation of the missing teen emerged as her grief-stricken relatives came to terms with the fact that Natalee was not going to be found alive — or possibly not found at all — because the man-eating sharks may have left nothing behind.

"Her family has come to believe that she's not with us anymore. That's just realistic," said Natalee's step-uncle Steve Parten, a Florida minister.

Natalee, from Birmingham, Ala., was last seen around 1 am on May 30 leaving Carlos 'n Charlies, a local nightclub, with 17-year-old Joran and his buddies Satish Kalpoe, 18, and his brother Deepak, 21. It was the last night of Natalee's high school graduation trip with her classmates.

For the first time, police are investigating information from several sources that a panic-stricken Joran confessed to his father Paulus that Natalee died accidentally and that he fed her body to the sharks.

Two of those sources are Jim Dooley, a South Carolina job recruiter for the health care industry, and his wife, Bella.

In an exclusive interview, the Dooleys said they contacted the FBI after learning of Joran's confession to his dad during a shopping trip to a clothing store in Charlotte, N.C. The date was June 11, just a few days after Aruba police had arrested Joran and the Kalpoe brothers as "persons of interest" in the case.

Dooley said the clerk at the clothing store told him that she and her husband are very good friends with Joran's dad, Paulus van der Sloot, and his wife, Anita. Her own son had attended school with Joran on the island and was a close pal.

The clerk told Dooley: "Joran told his father that he and Natalee had all been drinking and taking drugs at the nightclub. The father specifically mentioned they took Ecstasy. Joran told his father that when they left the club, they went to a beach on the island. Natalee was very ill and threw up several times.

"Then she fell and hit her head on something. Joran checked her and realized she was dead.

"Joran and others discussed an appropriate place to dump Natalee's body, a specific place where someone would disappear forever... a spot on the island where the waters are shark-infested."

Arubans know the shark-feeding spot very well and directed a National Enquirer reporter to its location on the rugged north coast of the island, where the ocean pounds the rocks and few people live.

The water there is deep and murky and sits beneath a high cliff, far away from the beautiful beaches and posh hotel casinos on the island's southern side.

A meatpacking plant once occupied the site. Workers there would discard meat cuttings into the ocean. The sharks would quickly gather and go into a feeding frenzy. To this day, dead animals are dumped into the waters at the shark site for the sake of tourism.

The clerk continued: "Paulus van der Sloot is very worried. This was an accidental death but his son is likely to end up going to jail because it looks like he was covering up a murder.

"But Paulus admitted telling his son that if a body wasn't found, there could be a chance he'd get out of jail."

According to another source close to the case, Robert Werner, headmaster of the International School of Aruba, where Joran attended classes, also said that Paulus van der Sloot admitted to him his son confessed that Natalee died accidentally in a fall on a beach.

The source revealed: "Paulus told the headmaster that Joran and Natalee had been taking drugs and decided to go for a swim. As they played in and around the water, Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned. In a drug and alcohol-induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of Natalee's body in the sea."

Paulus van der Sloot was arrested himself on June 23, a week after the Dooleys reported their conversation with the clerk to the FBI. He was later released but he could be rearrested, said Aruban authorities. He did admit talking to his son about Natalee's disappearance, saying he advised him in general terms that without a body there may be no way to prove a crime was committed.

The Kalpoe brothers were also released. But they, too, could be rearrested, Aruban authorities said. At the time of going to press, Joran remained behind bars. His family maintains his innocence.


NO POOL - HIT HER HEAD


GOODMORNING ALL!

[Leslie]

Rosa Palmer
http://tinyurl.com/qbmrx

[San]

Rosa Palmer
http://tinyurl.com/qbmrx

Palmer said she believes officials at the International School of Aruba, which her son attended with Joran van der Sloot, know more than they have said.

Why would she feel the need to bring up the head master.

[San]

GOOD MORNING EVERYONE.

[San]

OK I'm going back to bed because I'm tired.  You guys keep me up to late.

[sharon]

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315
Published on: 07/15/2005
HOW NATALEE WAS KILLED

NO POOL - HIT HER HEAD

GOODMORNING ALL!

Also "hit her head on something" NO ROCKS either.

Well -- I was close. I got the retail store and the word Carolina right  The memory is not what it used to be when I was younger

[Leslie]

I would love to know whose male voice is heard on the 3 AM phone call from Natalee.  If the entire conversation is Natalee saying "I don't know these people" and a man's voice asking " Are you calling home?" and then the call is terminated; THAT man is the last known person to be with Natalee before her disappearance.  Can they not determine who is talking and arrest him for kidnapping?

[klaasend]

June 18th a person in Aruba is saying some of Natalee's items are found at Lorenzo's house.  The question is, is this part of the original coverup?  Try to suggest that Natalee was still alive and being held?  Or is there truth that Natalee may have been at Lorenzo's house?

[Leslie]

The ISA Headmaster Robert Werner
http://www.isaruba.com/
Go to Academics
Choose Faculty and Staff
Werner's Favorite Quotation:  "May the "Great Spirit" grant me the strength to change the things that need to be changed, accept the things that cannot be changed, and have the wisdom to know the difference. "

I guess he doesn't have strength or wisdom!

[Buckeye]

Hammer

Part of hitting head swimming.  I don't recall the earliest reports mentioning rocks or beach...only hitting head swimming.  

On 8-1 JUG stated to that on 6-1 several of JUG’s friends took some of the “KIDNAPPED” posters to Prime Suspect J. SLOOT’s “International School.” The friends had written on the NATALEE “missing” posters something like “ask Joran van der Sloot about Natalee’s whereabouts.” While the friends were still at the school, the school’s headmaster, ROBERT WERNER, came out and asked them what they were doing, and if JUG‘s friends were with the F.B.I. The friends told WERNER, who invited the friends into his school office. WERNER told JUG’s friends that the day before (5-31), the headmaster had spoken directly to Prime Suspect J. SLOOT and Current Suspect P. SLOOT in the headmaster’s office and that the headmaster told Prime Suspect J. SLOOT, “Joran, you need to come clean on what happened.” JUG stated that WERNER told his friends that Prime Suspect J. SLOOT claims he and NATALEE engaged in some form of sex, and, he also said that NATALEE may have hit her head while swimming that night. The headmaster also told the friends that Prime Suspect J. SLOOT and Current Suspect P. SLOOT claimed WERNER that the reason that Current Suspect D. KALPOE’s car could not be seen in the “Holiday Inn” security camera video tapes around 2:00 AM is that “there was a break in the tape.”

http://tinyurl.com/bcehg

[Leslie]

Why is Lorenzo van Rijn being protected more than anyone else in this case?  Over a year after the disappearance, we have no clear picture of him and no real information but he was brought in for questioning and is discussed in Shango/Simian/Checkme postings.  What kind of power /influence does this drug dealer  have?

[klaasend]

BLOOD IN CAR - From TripAdvisor forum

[terryd270]

BLOOD IN CAR - From TripAdvisor forum

This statements says it was Joran's car that was tested and not Deepak's car..  Who's car was tested?  Too many silver cars on that island, and too many PIMPS..

[klaasend]

So what time did they actually leave CnC?  The Diamonds International camera would have a time stamp on it.  They know what time.  Was it closer to 1 or 1:30?

[klaasend]

The roads that night were busier because of the Soul Beach Festival.  They had to take the route going towards the VDS residence.  They could have crossed back over to the hotel area I suppose but that would have taken more time as well.  How does the La Cabana and the porn video fit?

[Leslie]

Re: Blood in the car - was Natalee on her period?  This is an important question yet nobody had discussed it.  Many men do not want to have sex with a woman during that time of the month and some religions forbid it. " Knocking boots" means sexual intercourse.
Hindu Religion views on sex:
Religiously speaking, Hindus begin life at the Brahmacharya or "celibate student" stage, in which they are directed to celibately advance themselves educationally and spiritually to prepare themselves for a life of furthering their dharma (religious duties) and karma (right earthly actions); only once they reach the Grihastya or "householder" stage can they seek kama (physical pleasure) and artha (worldly achievement, material prosperity). To seek physical pleasure before the householder stage would violate the spiritual Hindu's prescribed life path.
Most culturally-sensitive Hindus adhere to sexual standards akin to Victorian morality, with both pre-marital and extra-marital sex perceived to be gravely immoral and shameful. In the religion's teachings, the prohibition against sex outside of marriage is largely related to the prescribed life stages Hindus are bound to follow if they are to attain moksha (the same as the Buddhist concept of nirvana, or enlightenment of the soul).

[Leslie]

Soul Beach concert seemed to end at 11:30 Sunday night.  Many people
would have had to go to work or school the next day, so I do not see how the roads could have been that busy at 1 AM Monday morning.    
In the Dutch TV film clip of the drive past Diamonds International we do not see any other car than Deepak's.

[Houdini]

You know we have hashed and rehashed the events or the "perceived" events from C&C's on.  But if a minute by minute timeline of Natalee's whereabouts from the moment she landed on the island had been done, the perpetrators would be in jail now.

That's how a missing persons, or a homicide investigation is done.  You speak for the victim, because she is not there to speak for herself.  The answer to what happened to Natalee can be found in the time leading up to C&C's.
With all the cop shows on TV, First 48, Without A Trace, CSI, ALL the Law & Orders........ that's what they do.  What does ALE watch?  Gilligan's Island?