Lively Case Discussion #489 7/8 - 7/9/2006

[beachwego]

Maybe they are telling the truth.  They did drop Natalee and Joran by the Marriot beach...they just forgot to mention they also dropped off Deepak.  Then they met up with Freddy (who might have been with Guido or GVC).  Then they went to Jorans in Freddy's car or Satish got a ride home.

I can't see Joran heading to the beach where one of the 100+ MB students could have been hanging or walking around.

The area north of the Mariott and just south of the FH is about 1000 yards from the HI, or about a 5 minute walk.  At that time of nite it is dark and deserted.  Not much chance of any of her classmates being there.

With over a hundred kids....would you take the chance???

In addition to that, it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival....bringing more people out along the beach before leaving.   Didn't we hear that many arrived in boats and they were lined along the shore?  True, they may have all left by that time of night...but I think its doubtful they would choose that area for the events we have been discussing.  Perhaps so if it was just an innocent, romantic interlude between two young kids that have just met ...but nothing we have learned leads me in that direction...

[Nut44x4]

Ken Thomas - The Winkler murder investigation is suppose to be on tonight too.....so Art won't have a full hour.   He needs more time!

[crazybabyborg]

What do we know:

1) Joran's shoe/shoes were lost and it's a problem. He lies about the size, gives explanations, etc. SO.........Joran participated in the crime and was there at the disposal of the body.
2)  Freddy's in the van conversation from the first seconds. Melody said he spent the night with Joran that night, Assist. prosecutor resigned because ALE wouldn't pursue him, KJ has allowed him to be overlooked. Freddy's family must be one of power and fear. Paulus hires a lawyer for him. Deepak believes if Freddy tells the truth, Paulus will be cleared. SO.........Freddy is in this up to his eyeballs. The implications are that Freddy participated in the rape and the cover-up in the crime. Some indications that he was videotaping.
3) There is blood in Deepak's car. Oduber, and a police officer Art spoke with, confirm that. Deepak is seen scouring it. SO............Natalee was killed in Deepak's car, or placed, bleeding, in Deepak's car.
4) The rocks. Dave sees a frantic police car at that location and wonders if Nat's body has been found. Do we know there is blood there? The painting explanation is lame. The story of the kid's body there is weird. SO...............HELP me here, somebody, please?

[JuJu]

Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!

Me too...I couldn't believe my ears.  

What are ya'll talking about?

[Sleuth]

 Hiya, Sleuth! How are you this fine day?

I'm good, and you?

Like my sig, I've been going back and rechecking earlier details...

[Sleuth]

In addition to that, it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival....bringing more people out along the beach before leaving.   Didn't we hear that many arrived in boats and they were lined along the shore?  True, they may have all left by that time of night...but I think its doubtful they would choose that area for the events we have been discussing.  Perhaps so if it was just an innocent, romantic interlude between two young kids that have just met ...but nothing we have learned leads me in that direction...

If my memory is correct, the Soul Beach Festival event that night was not in that area - it was on the other side of O'Stadt entirely...  I could go back and check if important...

[crazybabyborg]

Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!

Me too...I couldn't believe my ears.  

What are ya'll talking about?

A snuff film discussed on one of the Dr. Phil shows that had Beth on. They were discussing the possibility of Nat being sold in the sex slave trade. A girl in the trade had gotten too old to be in demand, and her captors drove a nail in her forhead and filmed her being raped as she died.

[JuJu]

Tyler; I know what you mean. That had a profound effect on me at the time. It was the first time in my life that I ever felt the depths of evil that some who share this planet can sink into. Even now, I shiver at the thought. Nuff said, I'll get off that! God Bless and keep us all!

Me too...I couldn't believe my ears.  

What are ya'll talking about?

A snuff film discussed on one of the Dr. Phil shows that had Beth on. They were discussing the possibility of Nat being sold in the sex slave trade. A girl in the trade had gotten too old to be in demand, and her captors drove a nail in her forhead and filmed her being raped as she died.

I'm sorry I asked.  I have seen the movie 8MM with Nick Cage.  It is the most distrubing thing I have ever seen.

[JuJu]

sorry, I can't spell today

[Sleuth]

I did go back and check - events that night were at Club Havana Beach - that is south of Oranjestad (airport side).

[Jerry from Ohio]

Has anyone seen Easywriter lately?

I got an e-mail from him while I was at work yesterday morninig, but was in a bunch of meetings and didn't get to answer it for several hours. I never heard back from him and don't remember seeing him here yesterday or today.

Just wanted to make sure he is still in the land of the living.

Easywriter posted this morning in the "good morning Jerry" thread, lol  

   YUP  and  later this year  Easy and I are going to go BullRiden !!   Makes the old feel like young men right Easy ?  ROFLMAO  

  GOOD LORD !!  Geesh We will have to fly Klaass and a few others out to come help us  back to the infirmery tent  where is where they usually take you befor the Ambulance gets there LOL  
   Heck if Easy and I rode  in our conditions  our  insurence  companys  would just laugh at us  as  the Hospital Lady asked  will this  be cash or charge  ?   ROFL
   Does Medicare cover  "Stuck on Stupid"  ?? LOL  

[Shizaru]

SHIZARU - here is a photo I found in webshots of the beach at the Fisherman's Huts.  Looks like there are little reefs out there:

For those that may not know, the darker areas are where the water is deeper..so the light areas would be where the reefs are as the water is shallow there...

It's a great picture, Klaasend....thank you!

If the light water is the shallow area then in this photo it looks like the shallows extend for hundreds of yards  (don't know how to just copy the photo):

http://member.telpacific.com.au/rolyroper/NataleeHolloway/page07.htm

[Nut44x4]

Just to let you all know......Snuff Films do exist...for those who have enough money to pay to view them. It is NOT a hoax, nor is it an Urban Legend. They do exist out there and more so now that the internet is with us. I first heard of these films way back in 1987...before internet. They are out there and they are real. I have never seen one because I could never watch anything like that...I do not even atch regular porn, lol....but I know peeps who have seen them.

[beachwego]

In addition to that, it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival....bringing more people out along the beach before leaving.   Didn't we hear that many arrived in boats and they were lined along the shore?  True, they may have all left by that time of night...but I think its doubtful they would choose that area for the events we have been discussing.  Perhaps so if it was just an innocent, romantic interlude between two young kids that have just met ...but nothing we have learned leads me in that direction...

If my memory is correct, the Soul Beach Festival event that night was not in that area - it was on the other side of O'Stadt entirely...  I could go back and check if important...

It's not important to me...I only mentioned it because it would indicate more people were on the island....and I thought that their boats were possibly moored there.   Just trying to bring out reasons that Joran may not choose that area for a sexual encounter....but I am good with what I think, although others may want to know more.  I apologize for posting incorrect information though.

[crazybabyborg]

JuJu wrote:
I'm sorry I asked. I have seen the movie 8MM with Nick Cage. It is the most distrubing thing I have ever seen.

Yeah, I saw it too and had your same reaction. Maybe I shouldn't have answered. Sorry.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Hello, all.

Regarding Sleuth's post regarding reefs, I can say that the NJ shore points have some beaches where sandbars allow the swimmers to walk out very far, especially at low tide.  These sandbars may end abruptly with a dip, then resurface.  Lifeguards monitor the bathers who venture too far out where the currents become stronger.  The same occurs on the bay side, where channels are used by local boaters.  I, too, thought reefs as rocky ledges under the surface of the water.

A reef, however, by definition can be interpreted as a sandbar, in my opinion.  (according to Merriam-Webster)

Main Entry: 3reef
Function: noun
Etymology: Dutch rif, from Middle Dutch, from Old Norse, literally rib; akin to Old English ribb rib -- more at RIB
1 a : a chain of rocks or coral or a ridge of sand at or near the surface of water -- compare ATOLL, BARRIER REEF b : a hazardous obstruction

[JuJu]

JuJu wrote:
I'm sorry I asked. I have seen the movie 8MM with Nick Cage. It is the most distrubing thing I have ever seen.

Yeah, I saw it too and had your same reaction. Maybe I shouldn't have answered. Sorry.

no apology needed, I asked

[Sleuth]

Interesting commentary in regards to tourism in 2005...found this along with my Soul Beach Festival stuff.  I wonder if Edison Briesen and Myrna Jansen would say the same after the 2006 event...

The Aruba Tourism Authority is a host sponsor of the music extravaganza. Minister of Tourism and Transport Edison Briesen said, "Aruba is proud to host the Soul Beach Music Festival for the sixth year as this year's line-up is remarkably talented." For years, his office has worked closely with American producer Mark Adkins, raking in sizeable returns for the island as well as tourism sales and marketing all across the US.

"We are very proud that our island has fared well in 2005 in the wake of what was a challenging year for tourism," said Managing Director for the Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA) Myrna Jansen. The ATA reported a healthy 2005 with total numbers at 732,514 reflecting an increase of 4000 travelers over the year previous. From the US alone, some 532,352 arrived representing over 1000 (or .2 percent) additional guests over 2004 figures. The US market, the biggest for the island, represents 72.7 percent of the island's total market share. Repeat visitors have constantly registered a 40 percent rate. Memorial Day reported occupancies from 90-100 percen all across Aruba.

In return, Adkins who was given the Ambassador of Goodwill plaque for his efforts in promoting Aruba, said: "Once again, Aruba has embraced the 6th Annual Soul Beach Music Festival by providing a remarkable venue, an attractive setting, as well as gathering place for new and old acquaintances to unite. Vacationers experience the best of what Aruba has to offer in the way of tourism and hospitality." Adkins engineered the entire four months of sales blitz across many states penetrating R&B markets via radio, print, TV (Black Enterprise SETAR and VH1 Soul) and live events from East to West Coast.

Briesen added, "We have a lot of events. This is just one of the special events that generate general traffic. In the line of attracting diversified markets, this is one good and activity. We do receive guests from this event since launching it in the '90s." Soul Beach ups the tourism ante with results clearly reflected on the US market count. Traffic does not only come from North America but also from non-traditional markets where the event is not directly pitched to. Next on the calendar is the 5th Annual Aruba Music Festival on Columbus Day weekend, made electric by the world famous rock and roll bands.

" It is encouraging to see this big number of tourists who have traveled here safely. Through the years since 1995 of doing this as the sort of Caribbean Music ambassador, I am happy to see that we inspire. Spirit of soul music is all about collective consciousness. At the time when the negativity has the microphone and speakers, soul music can show positivity will prevail over negativity. In the end, hope prevails over pessimism," enthused Adkins.
Source

[beachwego]

Has anyone seen Easywriter lately?

I got an e-mail from him while I was at work yesterday morninig, but was in a bunch of meetings and didn't get to answer it for several hours. I never heard back from him and don't remember seeing him here yesterday or today.

Just wanted to make sure he is still in the land of the living.

Easywriter posted this morning in the "good morning Jerry" thread, lol  

   YUP  and  later this year  Easy and I are going to go BullRiden !!   Makes the old feel like young men right Easy ?  ROFLMAO  

  GOOD LORD !!  Geesh We will have to fly Klaass and a few others out to come help us  back to the infirmery tent  where is where they usually take you befor the Ambulance gets there LOL  
   Heck if Easy and I rode  in our conditions  our  insurence  companys  would just laugh at us  as  the Hospital Lady asked  will this  be cash or charge  ?   ROFL
   Does Medicare cover  "Stuck on Stupid"  ?? LOL  

Hey Jerry!

You guys better not be doing any bullridin!!!

I love your picture...its cool!!

[Sleuth]

Hello, all.

Regarding Sleuth's post regarding reefs, I can say that the NJ shore points have some beaches where sandbars allow the swimmers to walk out very far, especially at low tide.  These sandbars may end abruptly with a dip, then resurface.  Lifeguards monitor the bathers who venture too far out where the currents become stronger.  The same occurs on the bay side, where channels are used by local boaters.  I, too, thought reefs as rocky ledges under the surface of the water.

A reef, however, by definition can be interpreted as a sandbar, in my opinion.  (according to Merriam-Webster)

Main Entry: 3reef
Function: noun
Etymology: Dutch rif, from Middle Dutch, from Old Norse, literally rib; akin to Old English ribb rib -- more at RIB
1 a : a chain of rocks or coral or a ridge of sand at or near the surface of water -- compare ATOLL, BARRIER REEF b : a hazardous obstruction

2NJ - I'm not saying that reefs need to be rocky ledges - I indicated that IMO reefs are something that you can climb or stand on, which would include sandbars.  

I've seen reefs that are rock ledges, coral, and sandbars.  I've also been to the location in the photo, and it is that which is the basis of  my comment that those are not reefs.