Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum

A new thread for news and discussions.

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A gentle reminder, that at times we get heated and angry over something we read. Perhaps something someone else says. When you feel yourself typing out things you would "never say to a person if they were standing in front of you", well.. that is the time to step away.

Get a coffee, watch some TV, hug your hubby/wife, take a walk, take a shower.... take a break. Go watch the sunset.

This is a highly emotional issue that has dragged on for weeks (and might go for weeks more).

Remember, we are all real people with real feelings. Sometimes, when we type out "words" they aren't taken in the same context that we meant them.

Give others the same latitude you would like them to give you. Don't assume the worst, look for how that person could have meant something other than the worst.

Life's too short. We are not lost... our loved ones know where we are.

Be thankful.

I think the person who wrote that translation program should consider a career change.

first of all, i know for a fact that there is an xtacy problem, so dont tell me that there is no one collecting the money. free xtacy.hahahahaha.. youre not paying attention....

lolol I had already tried pap, spainsh, portugese and for luck dutch on-line translators, and nothing came out any better than that....I figured we would have to wait for one of our Aruban friends

da wench wrote:
Okay, so what does THAT say??????


i have no idea.....but it made evryone shut up..hahahahahahaahaha
_________________
observations and dissertations
i cant believe i used my real name.....WTF?

Tooo Funny!!!!!!!

Everybody is still figure that article out now?!! :lol:  :lol:

Why do they keep interviewing marianne croes, she repeats the same non-answer on every show

it says something about ARUBA....and about NATALEE...and they asked if she could leave the island without her passport or any identification...and then asked if she could go to COLUMBIA or VENEZUELA...and he said probably not....blah blah...I have no idea...made my head hurt

anyone read this in the arubaam newspaper archive from 6/7/05 and remember any more news regarding what it stated?


http://www.arubaam.com/~victor/am07jun05.pdf
(top coulumn on page 1, right hand side with green background)

"The security tapes of the hotel indeed show the two guards, of the Allegro Resort, walking in front of the hotels..."

-anyone know if Mickey John and other detained guard or possibly other guards were working that night?

sorry if this is old news but just trying to start from the beginnning again...thnks

right i think you have that part right, I just think this is a boy who thinks he is a playa, playing with somone's life. I dont' think it has anything to do with the columbian neckties.

LMAO! my thoughts exactly!   :lol:  
Sure wish ther were better emoticons on here   :wink:

 and that is based on?

indeed both had alibis, in fact their employment contracts were over.

From http://www.riehlworldview.com/



This may well be true if the VdS' let Greta & BHT in for a 90 min chat. If the kid took a polygraph (and I'm making an assumption that since polys aren't used in the Dutch system, that the kid may not know they can be circumvented), it may have shown he's telling all he knows????????

I guess, and that is what we are all doing who are not directly involved in the investigation, it is my hunch, my feeling deep in my gut. But then I thought mj molested boys...........lololol

I am trying to catch up on my reading....but now I  am stuck on some "translation"... :?  :?:

tuberide wrote:



I didn`t read that article tuberide but as far as I know the guards alibis checked already out. That`s why they are released.

I'll wait for someone who speaks papiamento to translate the article...
but the title reads something along the lines of "A crisis blown out of proportion"

Doesn't give me a good feeling at all  :?

maybe joran accidentally drugged himself....

-my point exactly, the newspaper article states that "both were seen in front of the hotels".....if they were no longer employed, how or why were they on the cameras?

Dash said that she saw her when they were all leaving the bar...she said Natalee's eyes looked heavy....kinda wierd...but she was not drunk...

this tells me that either she was EXTREMELY TIRED...or had some type of DRUG in her....most likely it was put in her drink without her knowledge

RUMOR is ...that Joran is an X dealer....so makes me think that this could be some type of drug crime....obviously the crime of giving her a drug...but also, maybe one of his suppliers took her.....hence the RUMOR that she was taken against her will ....somebody said they saw that happening..RUMOR

dunno...head still hurting from the translation :?

Pardon me.  What time will the Greta Mrs. Twitty VDS special be on tonight?  I am on the east coast.  :shock:

10 PM EST

well I bet there was some little sometin sometin being smoked.......or he could have even been doing some X

one thing x makes you stay up, not pass out.. so if he access to X, he has access to other underground party drugs, some of which can  kill in small doses. alotta those drugs are meant for animals....

Thank you  :D

right Rob, like special K...........ketamine

I can read the spanish part, and my take is the crisis out of proportion is people worrying about the tourist industry in Aruba, towards the end of the article he mentions how he studied in the US.

But if it's mixed with alcohol? Does it still make you stay up?

right , you know...an underground drug culture would not like to be seen, however if there is a crime that has been committed, they may decide to off a coupke of witness, as to protect their business..

I took a polygraph exam before, and there were no "cream or wires" :wink:

you would be able to drink more...

I had a friend that did it once in college, we couldn't figure out what was wrong with her.  She was drinking as well.  She did not pass out from it.  I would describe her as acting more drunk, kind of slow, and moving her mouth constantly, but not passed out.  I would guess that you could have a bad reaction to it, but that's what I witnessed.

I was living in S.F. Haight Ashbury in the '60's and early '70's and I can attest to the fact a lot of us "kids" were "well connected" in circles that we had no idea how dangerous it was or what could happen. We just thought we were sooooo cool! Times have changed from then and now to be sure, it is a lot more dangerous now.....but kids still want to be "cool" That never changes. There is alot going on on these islands that are very dangerous whether linked to this particular case or not.
Not much is out of the realm that goes on on these islands. JMHO

mbhs wrote:



As far as I know there`s a lot of "junk" X circle around also, and I`ve heard that when it is mixed with alcohol you are not up, but you could be very wel desorientated.

( by the way not my own experience but what I heard here in Holland  :) )

Pretty much fits the theory I subscribe to. Only Croes is the dealer (that's his connection) Deepak slipped the rufie in Natalees drink. Natalee died from the drugs. :shock:

There is no "cream" involved in taking a polygraph.  The machine measures perspiration, blood pressure and breathing.  No electrodes or whatever that stuff is that you see in hospitals.

Oh, and BTW, they don't work!  I know from experience.  They are good tools against those that are guilty and can be pressured into a confession.  The reason that the rest of the world doesn't use them is because they know they are useless.  Two countries in the entire world use them, the US and Isreal.

Special K = ?
Ketamine?

if ms twitty is correct and natalee was at jvds house, then that narrows the time line to only 2 hours when natalee was unaccounted for....

THIS IS AS FAR AS I CAN GO RIGHT NOW.  SOUNDS LIKE PROPAGANDA.  IT IS ENOUGH TO GET AN IDEA.  NOT PERFECT.  WHAT A LANGUAGE.  I THINK IT IS CLOSEST TO LADINO, THE LANGUAGE OF THE JEWS EXILED FROM SPAIN BY THE INQUISITION, SOME OF WHOM ENDED UP IN THE ANTILLES.  

UN CRISIS FUERA DI PROPORCION!
A CRISIS OUT OF PROPORTION

Sin cu nos tabata kier ni a buske, Aruba a haya su mes den un luz basta negativo durante e ultimo dos simannan, pa motibo di un caso cu ta sigui mantene nos atencion claba riba dje.  WITHOUT WANTING OR LOOKING FOR IT ARUBA FINDS ITSELF IN A PRETTY NEGATIVE LIGHT THE LAST TWO WEEKS BECAUSE OF A CASE THAT CAPTIVATES OUR ATTENTION.  

E tin e apariencia di no ta bayendo ningun caminda, cu el a stanca, cu e speranza di haya Natalee cu bida ta menguando. Hopi hende, tanto local como stranhero, a buske tur caminda sin exito. A usa ekiponan sofistica y cachonan experto den localiza curpanan dera sin resultadonan positivo. E mucha muher ta sigui desapareci, el a somenta sin laga hueya, creando un misterio cu ta bayendo pa largo.

IT APPEARS IT IS NOT GOING WELL, THAT IT IS STAGNATED.  THE HOPE OF FINDING NATALEE ALIVE IS DISAPPEARING.  HOPE IS FADING BOTH LOCAL AND FOREIGN AS THE SEARCH GOES ON WITHOUT SUCCESS THAT THE SEACH IS WITHOUT SUCCESS.  SOPHISTICATED EQUIPMENT  AND DOGS THAT FIND BODIES ARE WITHOUT POSITIVE RESULT.  THE GIRL IS STILL DISAPPEARED WITHOUT A TRACE CREATING A MYSTERY THAT GOES ON TOO LONG.
   
Ta unda a keda nos pa buske? E lo ta scondi den algun cas, protegi pa algun amigo o conocido, of e ta ser reteni contra su voluntad pa cualke grupo iregular? E por a yega Merca? No ta importa si el a laga su pasaporte atras, pasobra Americanonan por sali di Aruba cu cualke carchi di identificacion manera rijbewijs, carchi di seguro social, o certificado di nacimento.

WHERE CAN WE LOOK THAT HAS NOT BEEN SEARCHED?  IS SHE HIDDEN IN SOME HOUSE, PROTECTED BY SOME FRIEND OR ACQUAINTANCE OR IS SHE BEING HELD AGAINST HER WILL BY SOME IRREGULAR GROUP?  IT IS NOT IMPORTANT THAT SHE LEFT HER PASSPORT BEHIND.  AN AMERICAN CAN LEAVE ARUBA ON ANY ID, DRIVERS LICENCE, SOCIAL SECURITY CARD OR BIRTH CERTIFICATE

E por ta na Venezuela o Colombia? E ta improbable, pero semper e posibilidad ey ta keda existi. Cu un lancha rapido bo por yega e costa mas cercano di Falcon den mey hora. Si e ta na bida ainda, di con no por a haye cu tanto esfuerzo cu a ser desplega y tanto voluntario cu a rondea den delaster pida mondi y costa na Aruba? Y si e ta morto, pakico no por a localiza ni rastro di su restonan?

IS SHE IN VENEZUELA OR COLOMBIA?  IT IS NOT PROBABLE BUT THERE  IS ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY.   A FAST BOAT CAN ARRIVE IN FALCON IN A HALF HOUR.  IF SHE IS STILL ALIVE, WHY CAN'T SHE BE FOUND WITH THE MASSIVE EFORT AND SO MANY VOLUNTEERS SEARCHING THE HILLS AND COAST OF ARUBA.  AND IF DEAD, WHY IS THERE NO TRACE OF HER REMAINS?  

Cu e caso aki por afecta turismo? Claro cu si, pero esey no ta nos preocupacion primordial. Loke tin nos angustia ta Natalee mes. Cualke caida den turismo nos por recupera, pero Natalee ta keda iremplazable! Ta e factor humano ta ocupa nos mentenan y curazonnan, pasobra e parti material, o sea turismo, nos por remedia. Ta e dolor di su famia nos ta comparti, ta e angustia di e mayornan a acapara nos compasion.

COULD THE CASE AFFECT ON TOURISM?  SURELY BUT THAT IS NOT THE MAIN CONCERN.  WE WILL RECOVER FROM ANY DROP IN TOURISM.  BUT NATALEE WILL REMAIN IRREPLACEABLE.  IT IS THE HUMAN FACTOR THAT OCCUPIES OUR MINDS AND HEARTS ABOVE THE MATERIAL CONCERNS, OR TOURISM, WHICH WE CAN REPAIR.  WE SHARE THE PAIN OF THE FAMILY AND THEIR AGONY CAPTURES OUR COMPASSION.  

ta conserva e opinion cu ni maske cuanto hende pinta Aruba preto na Merca, semper tin otronan cu ta defende nos isla pasobra nan conoce y nan sa cu Aruba ta keda un di e lugarnan mas sigur na mundo.  

THE FACT REMAINS THAT WHEN SOMEBODY PAINTS ARUBA BLACK IN THE MARKET, THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER WHO KNOWS ARUBA REMAINS ONE OF THE SAFEST PLACES IN THE WORLD.  

No ta e beyeza di nos beachnan so a yama e atencion di e turistanan cu ta bishita nos isla repetidamente y den gran cantidad, ta e calidad humano di nos poblacion a conkista nan curazonnan.

IT IS NOT JUST THE BEAUTIFUL BEACHES THAT ATTRACT ATTENTION  OF TOURISTS WHO VISIT OVER AND OVER AGIN AND IN LARGE NUMBERS BUT ALSO THE HUMAN QUALITY OF OUR POPULATION WHICH CONQUEST THEIR HEARTS

 Ta e trato cu nan a ricibi di nos hendenan a haya eco den nan sentimentonan, pesey awor nan ta recompensa nos cu nan palabranan cari¤oso; cu nan defensanan na fabor di nos isla; cu nan protestanan publico contra esnan cu sin conoce nos isla o nos pueblo ta asina dispuesto di expresa opinionnan negativo sin e aval di realidad.

THE TREATMENT THEY RECEIVE FINDS ECHO IN THEIR SENTIMENTS  AND IS COMPENSATED IN THEIR AFFECTIONATE WORDS WHICH DEFEND THE ISLAND AND PROTEST PUBLICLY AGAINST THOSE WHO WITHOUT KNOWING THE ISLAND EXPRESS NEGATIVE OPINIONS WITHOUT THE BACKING OF REALITY.  

Pasobra Aruba no ta un lugar unda criminalidad tin un incidencia halto, un caso manera esaki por a logra tanto atencion den exterior. E ta un incidente aisla, perpetra pa elemento(nan) aheno na nos cultura, na nos disposicion pacifico, na nos caracter amplio, abierto, y decente como Pueblo.

BECAUSE ARUBA IS NOT A PLACE WITH A HIGH CRIME RATE, ONE CASE LIKE THIS ONE CAN GRAB ATTENTION OVERSEAS.  IT IS AN ISOLATED INCIDEN  PERPETRATED BY ELEMENTS ALIEN TO OUR CULTURE, OUR PEACEFUL DISPOSITION OUR AMPLE CHARACTER, OPEN AND DECENT AS A PEOPLE

 
E ta ademas, un caso lora den nubianan di misterio cada vez mas denso, menos penetrable hasta pa e wowonan mas experto den e mundo policial y investigativo. Esaki ta un desaparicion cu no a laga evidencianan palpable, algo solido riba cual Polis por traha.

Fuera di esey, mi tin entendi cu e detenidonan no ta bisando nada adicional, sino simplemente cu nan a laga Natalee (cu o sin Joran) riba e tereno un tiki panoord di Marriott hotel. E storia aki nan ta sigui ripiti cu insistencia, aunke tin tambe varios discrepancia den nan declaracionnan.

Pa loke ta trata e eficiencia di nos cuerpo Policial, no laga ningun hende ga¤a nan mes: e ta di e mihornan den nos region, y sigur uno cu nos por bisa cu conviccion di ta hopi profesional.

Nos cu a sigui nan actividadnan durante e ultimo 25 a¤anan di cerca por bisa den voz halto cu ta trata di un cuerpo policial cu tin un integridad grandi, y esey ta descarta cualke posibilidad di un tapamento o un complicidad basa riba amistad cu un of otro familiar di cualke un di e detenidonan.

Den mi buki di tur e hechonan delictivo cu a tuma lugar riba nos isla durante e ultimo 25 a¤anan, e actuacionnan certero di e Cuerpo Policial di Aruba ta skirbi cu leternan di oro!

E caso di Natalee a pone nos den un crisis emocional grandi, y otronan cu no conoce nos isla y no sa con nos Pueblo ta razona, a convirtie den un crisis publicitario fuera di tur proporcion.

Na Aruba no ta existi criminalnan cu ta cana rond pa inventa maldad na cada paso; nos no tin e sicopatanan cu ta pasa man pa un revolver y ta cuminza dispara pa loco contra hendenan inocente; Aruba ta un isla trankilo, yen di humanismo y consideracion pa e bienestar di otronan.

Pesey, na nomber di tur loke ta husto, ta tempo pa e imagen negativo cu voluntariamente of involuntariamente a ser crea di nos isla pa algun medio di comunicacion cu no tabata sa mes unda Aruba ta keda, ser coregi.

Ta pesey tambe cu algun di nos a acepta pa duna declaracionnan na un of otro canal di television Mericano, no pa busca fama o crea un imagen cu lo desaparece hunto cu e regreso di e medionan ey, sino pa purba contraresta e da¤o cu a ser causa pa e misterio aki.

No ta kedami nada otro di bisa sino cu mi ta spera cu Natalee ta bibo y cu e lo haya e caminda di regreso pa su cas, su famianan y su amigonan na Birmingham, ciudad cu mi conoce bon, y e Pueblo di Alabama cu, segun mi experiencia personal na e Estado ey, ta igual na esun di nos den e grandeza di su curazon y su sentido di compasion.

Al fin y al cabo mi a studia y a gradua na Mobile, Alabama, y por papia cu cierto autoridad di e cualidadnan humano di su Pueblo. No ban yega na conclusionnan ekiboca tocante esey djis pasobra un canal sin importancia ni alcance nacional, a hinca den su cabez pa haci un yamado pa un boycot cu no ta bay haya oido ni acogida den e resto di e poblacion Americano, y cu no ta ahusta su mes tampoco na e concepto Americano di "fair play.”

http://www.diarioaruba.com/dialuna/editorial/index.html
Back to top

But it was longer than that until they picked the boys up. I'm just wondering if they left her at the beach and this is someone else's doing...I just can't imagine a person that can go to school the next day after doing something really bad to a girl. But I guess they exist.

NOOOOO I WANT HER ALIVE....let's do THAT scenerio!!!!  K?

that is kind of the lines I am thinking Inspector, I just haven't jumped into the drug lord involvement yet.

What do you think about Natalee's mom saying Natalee was at Joran's house 3 am?

It says, "This is rumor and speculation....don't bother reading"

Maybe if it was Joran who tried to commit suicide, then the wires had to do with him being monitored for his hart or something.

Hey Rob, youre okay. AND they answer your posts/questions.
Ive tried getting a rise about the sudden serious crime wave on crime free Aruba for days.
Maybe you could ask if there was ever any followups on the person being drug off  ( didnt seem willingly)the beach at approx 3am
 that night.
Hang in there !!

I don't know about anyone else, but I think a mother's intuition is right on.  Beth Twitty has met these people in person and if she thinks they are lying, I think they are lying.

sadly sweetie, you could be onto something there. If these guys did something to her, and I think they did-----I bet he could go to school, just be freaked the whole day, wondering if someone found her or not. Then again if she was at his house, he could have hid her for quite some time.....hours I mean

I'm sorry...I'm about 13 pages behind.  My husband just told me that Natalee was in the Van Der Sloot home that last nite, per the meeting arranged with Greta Van Sustern and the VDS parents.  Does everybody already know about this?  [probably old news by now...]  I can't f'ing belive it!!!

they do indeed.... my friend was murder while i was in aruba last year, he was here in pittsburgh. should have been in aruba with me...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04196/346094.stm


 but anyway, the group from the trip was in  the lobby at 5 am and didnt see natalee, hence she is not there, postive confirmantion that she does not appear in the lobby to leave. that leaves 3 am to 5 pm.. not much time

I'm with ya on that waitingtoknow.  Beth seems confident that she is alive so I'll stick with her...I know it's a mother's love thing but it feels better.

:::sticking head in sand:::

sorry about your loss Rob.

We've been discussing this rumor too.

i heard about it but just not too much, i m kinda in the dark on that one.. i know of the supposed incident, but not much more....

A mother's intuition is VERY STRONG... I believe in it...and will stick by that as well....!! :wink:

da wench wrote:




No offense but I can also imagine that thru grieve and anger your view can be sometimes different. But on the otherhand I think you are right that a mothers intuition is rarely wrong.

May I ask where this item is from? I don't remember seeing this one before. Thanks.

This is turning into a media circus and smells of sensationalism.

i just want it resolved....

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05125/499201.stm

thanks for your compassion

Like reading Yoda's version of papiamento, that was.

I can't either, but  there could be someone else involved who handled all this...thus he can't really confess if his dad stepped in to help.  Do you suppose she was at the house because they couldn't revive her?

I dunno, my mom still knows when I'm getting into trouble...and she's 2000 miles away.

Maybe I put too much emphasis on appearance alone, but I don't think any of those kids look like the type who would intentionally harm someone.  I saw the photos of them trying to look badass (like gangsters), but lots of kids do that stuff.

I'm leaning more toward the idea that, as one of them reportedly said, "something bad" happened to Natalee - probably while they were with her. I don't know what it could be.  Maybe she overdosed on something, maybe she fell into the sea accidentally (or got swept away while swimming).

I think those kids are just too scared to tell the Aruban authorities the truth because they fear that they'll be blamed for what happened.

And the details of this, assuming it's true, is that she was at the VDS home at 3a?  WHen did she leave?  And with whom? ANd how did she get there - via Deepak mobile?

two cases that I have seen recently....one...a little boy near here went missing..the mother said on tv that she just knew her son was dead...some time later, he was found dead

another case is the boyscout...his mother said on tv that she knew he was alive....he was found today alive

I know that these are only 2 cases..but there are so many more...

And if the alibis of these two checked out, then this report MUST be false. It seems we have a wide-spread and deliberate misinformation campaign going on here. We have DiarioAruba "car chase story," and the Panty Boy story, and the TOP95 report of Natalee Holloway in Nigeria, and now this AM Digital story that the two security guards alibis did NOT check out. Hmm.

Rob...sorry to hear about your friend...

thanks i apprciate it.....chad was an awesome person....excellent artist, and great sense of humor...

Annie - Beth was supposedly there with Greta VanSustren,,,NOT Natelee

OMG! :shock: I bet you do, how horrible for all of those who loved him

The "panty boy" story????  What the hell is that?

thats why i get so involved when i hear someone is missing... chad was missing for like a week. and it was hell to get info when i was in aruba...he was found under 20 bags of concrete....

Animal tranq used by vets. Can be cooked and ingested (snorted mostly, I think).  No personal knowledge - James St. James "Disco Bloodbath" and Owen's "Clubland" books about NYC's Michael Alig.

So Mr. VDS picked up Joran and Natalee at MCD's after they were "left"?

thanks PROfessor, i was questioning the details of their alibis because of this reported video footage of them....anyone have link or details of mickey john and friends alibis?

Not much of a vacation for you...How horrible!

?!? I missed that one. Is this something that emerged subsequent to application of hot and cold rooms and cream and electrodes?

waitingtoknow wrote:





I agree on that I know b/c my mother seems to know always what I`m up to.  But just as I say thru grieve and anger your vision also can be sometimes a little blurry. That does not mean that I think that that`s the case with natalee`s mom .

I know I keep bringing up this girl, but Elizabeth Smart's family never gave up hope finding her alive either.  They kept saying they felt in their hearts she was alive...and lo and behold....

This just in: All Comedy Radio in Arizona- 1480 AM - had a "special" today on the Aruba case. They reported that Gary Condit has NOT yet been questioned, but that as soon as Ted Kennedy sobers up, they'll ask him about nh (and several other missing girls).

Just emailed the authorities in Aruba with my suggestion that detainees be transferred to Gitmo. [That'll make 'em talk].

I've seen all sorts of stories here; insider chat, bracelet-sale promos, teary-eyed ribbon people cyber-hugging each other, etc, especially during slow news cycles. Will continue to call 'em like I see 'em, tho ( entitled to my opinion-- and, yeah, it's too bad I have to keep repeating that ).

And in resp to one post; No, we are NOT all here for the same reason. Some for news reporting, some to ask questions, ... as many reasons as posters perhaps. That's real diversity, my friend.  ( As opposed to fake PC diversity which abhors true difference of opinion ). Many types of people here, contradictory opinions, numerous ways of talking/writing/thinking, varied news sources, you-name-it.

More breaking news: There's a girl over at The Onion site who is selling Natalee Holloway STATUES for a hundred-buck a pop. Not sure if it's serious or not, but my dashboard could sure use some sprucing up!

May G-d bless the beasts and the children.

-MC

rumor..........rumor that daddy sloot picked up joran at mickeedee's at 3 am

if im asked to help, i ll help.. i will be in aruba jun25 and if they ask for help i will help.. i just dont want to get in anybodys way...

Perhaps their alibis checked out, but not in the manner we presumed.
i.e. they were at the HI, but not at a time possible for Natalee to have been there.  After all, now we know that she never came back to that spot.

Again??

Look at the date. They were released on the night of the 13/14.

why do i get the impression you write for the onion...?

regarding polygraphs

even if they are not admissible as evidence and I believe they are not admissible as evidence in some of the US states, they are still investigative tools to eliminate suspects........

OK-to answer the Extasy ?'s

1. Mixing the drug with alcohol is a NO NO--it makes u super sick-like vomitting sick

2.  If u r in clubs or know someone on X they will drink plenty of water-u see them carrying water bottles around versus alcohol

3.  They are very hyper--walking around, talking-can not sit still.  Will chew on something

4.  Overall--this drug messes with your nervous system--they act very paranoid and hyper

Hope this helps.  I knew people who tried this before and found out after my cousins murder ("mob style") he was dealing and using :(

FYI--just heard on Fox:

The judge will not even listen to the Holloway families attorney they hired in Aruba until the suspects are formally charged where right now they are formally accused.

Also, JVDS father they said is only a "civil worker" (not sure if that is exact-I know CIVIL is righ)--not a judge or any kind of high status person

Nope this one came out yesterday.

Wow!  I cannot keep up with this site.  I was posting under this name on hcgtv.com and while i cannot read all of your posts, i haven't seen anything to dissuade me from the conclusions i reach having been to Aruba on business several times, to that bar even more times, most recently about two weeks before this incident arose.  It would take me forever to figure out how to lift my conclusions from the other cite and post them here---maybe someone more savvy can do it, but i do think JVDS did it, maybe by accident and/or drug overdose, is used to getting his way and thinks the law does not apply.  I think daddy VDS helped intially at least buy some time to clean up evidence, nail down story, etc.  I do think Natalee is unfortunately sleeping with the fishes, either tied down or shark bait.  I think the sex slave trade stuff is BS in this instance.  What we have here is a punk that thinks he knows everything, is entitled, a sociopath, etc, etc.  Sorry if all i say is old news, but like i said i cannot keep up with this site---it moves too fast.  This case tugs at me having just been there and watching the sharks at work at C&C's in person!  Thanks.

Maybe I am behind...

CNN is reporting that Mrs. Twitty was invited into the Sloot house while passing out prayer slips.  No confirmation on the conversation, but they said she (BT) did look calm when she left.

Rob--so sorry to hear--I can definately sympathize with u..

Wasnt Jorans latest story he left her asleep on the beach ?? ( Jerk if he did or maybe he picked up on that report and used it. He left her, two others seen dragging her off )

stories are changing hourly now....

FYI, Alan Colmes is also LIVE in Aruba tonight, so watch Hannity & Colmes at 9pm Eastern as well on Fox

From before:

DT  Location: Mississippi  Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:10 pm  
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And don't forget the supposed rumor "on the street" that the Holloways were defensive about taking a polygraphic examination. First, how would anyone on the street have access to the Holloways, and Second, why on earth would the Holloways be defensive about a polygraph? I would think they would welcome the introduction of polygraphic technology into this investigation. It just didn't add up.

She can't be in Nigeria or anywhere else. She left her passport in her room.

Welcome to Monkeyland...I appreciate your post...don't agree with it all...but thanks for posting it.  (I think she is alive)

Wasn`t there a rumour in the beginning that ; When the boys supposedly brought natalee to the HI they said; ' Natalee didn`t want any help with walking to the hotel b/c she could manage on her own'?


What if the story is true that they went to the beach and natalee had enough of the guys or joran she said; ' leave me alone' I don`t want to come with you anymore? And then joran or the brothers finally leave her alone? And then something happens to her afterwards?

Fugetaboutit...the polygraph...ain't gonna happen...shouldn't happen.

Also just reported on CNN.  The US has sent 2 behavioral specialists that will sit in on interrigations of the subjects.

Okay, monkeys, don't laugh.  Some of you remember that a couple of days ago I posted that I was contacting Sylvia Browne.  This is the response I got today:

Thank you for your email and compassion towards the situation with Natalee. Sylvia adheres to psychic etiquette which means, she does not offer psychic information to families of missing/murder cases unless she is asked by the immediate family or police working on the case.
Natalee's family is in such distress and grief Sylvia would in no way add to that by offering to help when the family does not ask or want a psychic's help.
We have added Natalee's family to our prayer list in hopes that they find closure to this horific situation they are in.
Blessings,
Vera

dont be so naive...there are ways around almost everything in life

That story would be fine if the boys weren't lying from the beginning.  They lied because they fear the truth.

Regarding X:

Does anyone remember the Andrew Luster story?  The Max Factor Heir?  He was using liquid x on the girls he picked up.  He did offer one water.  Maybe it was in the water.  When they found the videos he made of women he drugged, they appeared "dead" or "comatose" while he took advantage.  

Maybe what Dash observed was the later effects of this after the "hyper" portion subsides.  

And the polygraph should not  involve cream and electrodes.  Maybe we could all hope for electroshock therapy of some sort.  

Just my thoughts...

Thanks

This is true, but they sure as hell would NOT have her check in under her own name....DUH!!

this is so difficult to keep up with! you guys just started a new forum 3 seconds ago and you already have this many pages??

Rob, will you be able to report to us from Aruba on your observations? You could use the Cyberzone internet café...

While that is true, they usually take time.

yeah I guess volunteering to go to Aruba is tough for those cable hosts, though Greta is clearly not a sun person, the list for Baghdad looks empty though.....

if martin doesn't write for onion or scrabbleface he should, LOL

the plot does thicken, my own new theory is that either the Kalpoes in fact dropped N & J at his bachelor pad in the first place or they were telling the truth that they dropped them off at the Marriott and somehow N & J end up at the bachelor pad

but then where does Croes come in, disposal of the body later, or could it be as simple as Joran called Croes and says if anyone asks, because maybe Croes was at the C & C that night, we dropped that American chick off at the Holiday Inn and then he got the Kalpoes on side to lie for him too

maybe he said to the Kalpoes, I didn't kill that girl but I'll get blamed for it or worse he said we'll all get blamed for it or ooh, what if he said, if you don't lie for me, I'll say you guys did it, and look, when the brothers changed their story implicating Joran didn't Joran change his story implicating the Kalpoes???????

hmmmm

on riehl world they are reporting that Joran is being interrogated non stop today, gotta be careful though, confessions have been thrown out in cases where people have been interrogated for several hours without a break.....

not saying it was plausible, ..only possible

:::falls down from loft:::

 :shock: Interesting. I was just making a comment today about something along that line but actually an FBI Profiler.

I would love to hear what an FBI profiler would have to say in this case after being able to review things.

(Things that make you go hummm)

Not laughing here, as I remember when you posted your intent to contact her.  Thanks for sharing the response with us.

hmmmm

its starting to bother me how rehearsed micky johns tv interview seemed---the way he was going over what he "heard" while in his cell near one of the Kalpoes.  looked like he was reading a teleprompter in his mind or something.  i would like to see all details known regarding their employment/possibly new guards that replaced them at the Allegro resort/ and also their alibis


anyone?

Just my point ,if they hear suddenly that she is missing that explaines why they lied because they were afraid that they would be blamed then.

Wow Kerin what a purty eye you have! lol

When did Beth HT say Nat was at JvdS' house?

LOL. I got tired of not being able to "see" you. I thought I would put my eye in the forum for 24/7 updates!  :D

It said PLEASE don't watch Jennifer Wilbanks or buy her book..

yeah, that's what I thought to; it really is a setup used for a straight electrocardiogram...the boy having heart palpitations from the questioning going on  before leaving for the lux KIA prison

CNN reported earlier that the reason Croes was in custody was that he corroborated the original story, saying he saw Natalee being dropped off at the H.I. Maybe that's all the further his involvement goes. So either he was telling the truth, or one of the trio (Deepak probably) put him up to it.

please get rid of it, it's disturbing

I am so sorry, Rob. Let's make sure it doesn't happen again.

LOL--I think I need to add another head in here..with all these details--the one attached to me HURTS!!!!!!!!!!

If we start to see it close, do you want us to wake you up??   :lol:

yet yours is so lovely, huh?  :?

 Yes, this makes sense because it's the exact opposite of their stories and the last place they'd want to say she was.  



 If a person has just committed a crime or is in a seriously bad situation, he doesn't let someone new in on it - unless he has to, imo.  So Croes had a purpose beyond a simple alibi or even advice on a drug to counteract (assuming drugs involved).  Otherwise, you wouldn't drag in a friend of a friend.



 well, all that makes great sense, but I sincerely believe that if either of the boys weren't heavily involved one or both would have spilled every bit of what they knew about Joran by now.

Chat Room Addiction???

What a relief!
 :wink:

The family isn't looking for justice...they are looking for their daughter.  I wouldn't mind if he was interrogated 24hrs if he resulted in finding Natalee.

I think it is stuck open like that, Rose...seriously...my contacts are glued to my eyes

if he was rehearsed it was because the cops likely went over his story several times and that was his official statement he had to make with the police, they say he and Deepak had to sign a statement about their conversation which is when Deepak apologized to Johns for getting him in trouble

come on the guy is a security guard, not a politician, he's been in jail for what seems like no good reason, he has American media falling over themselves to talk to him, he is likely nervous, you'd be, you forget they have big bright spotlights shining in your eyes and frankly his lawyer looked just as uncomfortable on camera

she is not Nancy Grace, she's likely never been on camera, certainly not international TV

I like it  8)

Do we really know these "Statements" or "confessions" that keep coming out are 100% reliable regarding any of the 3/4 saying them?

Kind of curious because if they can't share facts about the case for legal reasons then how do we know what has been used as a story?

Just a thought to make you go hmmm  :lol:

Say what?   Make that 3 weeks and 2 hours and I'm with ya

happy?

It has yet to be proven that they are lying. Since by Dutch Law the Investigators cannot release information, all the alleged story changes are rumor/hearsay.

BINGO!!!! :::ding ding ding::::

"strong" interrogations involving "electroshock therapy" are seldom helpful in obtaining information. However, if information regarding these strong techniques is titrated to a target population, it can affect behavior within that population.

You guys are hilarious  :lol: .  Fox News Natalee update!

Well, I would believe that to be a huge human rights if not legal violation.

To be fair, if he was my son, I would have a problem with it since he is a minor.

From recent wire article:

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/local/11949664.htm

" ...[Beau] Barron [NH classmate on trip] said people who went on the trip aren't publicly discussing details of what happened in Aruba at the request of Holloway's family, which fears the publicity could hamper the investigation."

Tube...seriously! Don't you shave????

I haven't heard any such case being thrown because of too much questioning, but then, I am not a lawyer.

Thank you

I still think maybe all of the group should have been interrogated as well since we have reports of scuffles possibly over Natalee, how do we know one of the Mountainbrook boys wasn't involved somehow

again put this into perspective, if this had happened in Alabama you know each of those kids would have been intensely questioned

do we know if this was done by the FBI or Alabama law enforcement

still I think if I were the Aruban police, I would have made that group stay until I had a chance to interview everyone

Goon Squad great find

Honestly! lol All we can do is work with who was arrested and what we know which isn't much.

Let's go over the facts.. the only facts we know...

Joran - was at CnC with Natalee, had known Natalee about two days

Satish - was with brother, whereabouts before picking up Joran and Natalee at CnC is unknown. Reportedly was a passenger in his brothers car.

Deepak - was with brother, whereabouts before picking up Joran and Natalee at CnC is unknown. Reportedly owns the "silver/grey" honda and was driving.

Deepak and Satish were not seen at CnC. They have each other "coincidentally" as alibis regardless of what stories or rumors come about.

They drove up and Joran and Natalee were in their car around 1:30am.

What ever happened after that is speculation, rumor or "stories" other than the fact we have two freed guards, Joran, Deepak, Satish and Steve in custody with hidden hints from BH that more arrests will come.

You make a good point my mole friend, but the first story about dropping Natalee off at the HI was later contradicted by the released security gaurd.  Thus making it a changed story, hence my determination that they are lying.

Have they been showing any of the conversation between Beth H. and the VDSs yet or are they saving it for later?

I think they were giving him an EKG - his heart was probably racing, maybe he was hyperventilating and said he couldn't breathe. Of course, anxiety would be there if he were guilty or innocent, after all he is only 17 and this is a horrible experience for anyone to go through.

  Been away read back and stopped here to share my thoughts on this...
greta has prob come and gone during my h&p expedition but here is my take on it:  

maybe they were both really f'd up in jorans apartment and all 3 had already had sex with her when that craxy lorenzo guy came over to pick up or drop some x off...he wanted his share too...joran said no and the guy pulled out a gun and took off with her...the 3 had no idea what to do and split up maybe even ...at 630 am joran calls from sta lucia  cuz he is majorly screwed if she is not on that plane...said they thought she'd turn up at a crackhouse  and at the time they probably/maybe believed that.
scared they agreed to the lighthouse lie.   they figured they had time-at least 48 hours right??  bam!!! :!:  :!: Twittys at the doorstop...they did not know where joran was but tried to cover his ass...scene between parents..maybe they wouln't let the Twittys in to joans apt/whatever/being less than helpful...

Natalies disappearance was major so fast the lorenzo guy freaked out...somehow he is hooked into croes...she has a nightmare ordeal in lorenzoes basement and is so hysterical she can't be let go...she turned into a hot potato and was too screwed up and had along the way seen too much in being moved around..it is a small island..maybe she was being held in the beheaded guys house when his killer(s) showed up...they were maybe supposed to kill her too but they thought they had enough connections to get paid for the kill as well as sell the girl to someone they knew....Natalee was moved around..with increasingly dire consequence and international scrunity/media...From the beginning to now lots of other people have become involved to some degree...We continue tohope and pray that she is still alive.

What else is known about Lorenzo except that he is crazy???
Is he somehow related to vds?? Did daddy try even initially  (mc D.'s
near Loerenzoes maybe?) to cover one son and then shameful of it's nasty turn and international profile, nevermind at what consequence to
Natalee by the time he really knew the whole deal...by then it was too late and even he could not get her back..perhaps he did leave the country to get something (X)??$$$$??? and when he got back things were worse and his hands /politically/were tied...then someone was decapitated...

What is the story with Lorenzo?

you won't see their conversation. no cameras allowed. Only Greta's "account" on her show

I can honestly say that if he was my son.  I would have kicked his ass for not being up-front and respecting the mother of a young lady he was courting.

Have they said anything about it during the news today.  Any details?  Thanks.

I was thinking that just this morning.  If I were Natalee's parents, I wouldn't care about the Aruban's "case" against anyone, I would do whatever it takes to get those boys to tell WHERE NATALEE IS.

You are so right, for the family it isn't about the investigation, it isn't about the "legal" ramifications, it isn't about the "case"... it's about finding their missing daughter.

It's too bad that it doesn't appear to be about "finding Natalee" to those investigating.    I really can't believe that after all this time, they don't know exactly what happened and if that's true, why haven't Natalee's parents been told where Natalee is?

There should be only one goal, FIND NATALEE.   If the investigators have information that can help the family find Natalee, they should TELL (to heck with any court case).

Ok I am not trying to sound cold, but this will come out that way.

What in the world does Greta, Beth and the VDS say to each other for 90 mins.

Question 1: Where is my daughter?
Question 2: Looks a lot like question 1.

What can the VDS say back that doesn't let the world know something is up?

90 Mins. thats longer than some feature films. More time than the clock in football or basketball.

A lifetime Natalee's lifetime. I couldn't spend 90 mins in there if I knew they were lying.

Okay, we do know what the original statement was as it was made before this was really a criminal investigation, it pointed the finger at 2 security guards and they were arrested based on that story which was told before any of the boys were in custody and before there was such a "hush hush" on information.  The 2nd story came from Mickey John.  Did he have motivation to tell that story?  Yes.  Did he provide enough details about no only the story but also how police handled it (having he and Deepak sign documents...) to make me believe that he was telling the truth?  Well, I personally find Mickey believable.  That is ONLY my opinion.  So, I think that there have been two versions of the story out now that I think really have been told by the boys.  Anything else after that is just hearsay and speculation, but those first two IN MY MIND seem to have really been told.  Not that I believe either one of them, but I believe those are different versions told by the suspects.

Sarah, just that Greta was able to get details from both moms (whatever that means)

Good coverage at this site, tho I only recently tripped over it:
http://conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=36&contentid=2285&page=2

Here's a juicy excerpt for those who don't want to chase links:
===From Conspiracy Planet===
The presence of numerous unregulated and unrestricted "gypsy boats" sailing in and out of Aruba and Curacao’s ports to market produce and "other commodities" from the South American mainland [some 19 miles to Colombia and 35 miles to Venezuela] provides the means to abduct women--even as high-speed Colombian cigarette boat drug-runners also ply Caribbean island waters and seaports heavily frequented by American families.

It used to be different--before the age of off-shore banking with recent and curious massive assumption of U.S. debt instruments by Caribbean banking centers, international political correctness and evidence of U.S. bank-laundered narco-dollars for congressional campaigns--derived from ill-gotten gains of lawless Caribbean and South American drug factories and bordellos.

Aruba’s Carlos and Charlie’s bar linked the two missing American women

Iva Bradley, mother of Chesterfield, Virginia’s Amy Lynn Bradley- missing from the Royal Caribbean Rhapsody of the Seas cruise ship off Aruba since 1998 and last seen in a house of prostitution by a U.S. Navy petty officer on the nearby island of Curacao in 1999--was interviewed Thursday by MSNBC host Dan Abrams.

"We came to find out that the same bar [Aruba’s Carlos and Charlie’s] that they [three men on her ship] wanted to take Amy to was the same bar as Natalee Holloway was in." [MSNBC, 6-9-2005]

Curiously, the Bradley-Holloway link is seldom mentioned, save for the Abrams Report and a CNN report at 5:45 pm Eastern on Friday which quoted the Bradley family as believing their daughter Amy is "being held in servitude" somewhere in the Caribbean.
===end story===

To Cancon; thx for compliment. If you can hook me up at either publication, lemme know. Tax accounting/auditing is getting pretty boring. Also doing stand-up on the side, which is like community service, the money's so great, as everyone knows.

-Martin C

Saw this on Fox.com after listening to an update on Fox:

Go "On the Record" weeknights at 10 p.m. ET

Natalee Holloway's mother wants answers about what happened to her daughter and on Tuesday, she took action!

Tune in tonight for a special edition of "On the Record" live from Aruba (search) as Natalee's mother confronts the parents of Joran van der Sloot (search), one of the young men suspected in Natalee's disappearance. It's exclusive video that you won't see anywhere else!

Plus, Natalee's family members are ready to take legal action. We'll get the details from their Aruban lawyer, Vinda de Sousa.

We'll get the latest on the investigation from Jossy Mansur, managing editor of Diario, the largest paper in Aruba.

And, two of Natalee's best friends go "On the Record."

Only Greta takes you this close to the case

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Does anyone else here feel as though the victim and the victims families have less rights than the suspects?  It's crazy.  The innocent is suppose to be protected.  The liars shouldn't be.

Thank you Catriana...I think I can that just about EVERYONE here just wants Natalee home at any cost.

Really and what about Deepak, Satish and Steve? WHy is everything Joran Joran Joran.
Sorry but I am tired of hearing the fingered pointed at ONE. There are four no more no less so far. And we don't know that Joran ahsn't said anything because we aren't allowed to know.

OK...so someone may have posted this already but are the Holloways allowed by Aruban law to petition the court to be shown all the evidence?

I was living in S.F. Haight Ashbury in the '60's and early '70's and I can attest to the fact a lot of us "kids" were "well connected" in circles that we had no idea how dangerous it was or what could happen. We just thought we were sooooo cool! I probably know too much about these kinds of dealings, one of my girlfriends was a mule from Colombia and was murdered. Times have changed from then and now to be sure, it is a lot more dangerous now.....but kids still want to be "cool" That never changes. There is alot going on on these islands and other countries that are very dangerous whether linked to this particular case or not.
Not much is out of the realm that goes thru these islands.
JMHO

I read that site. I thought it was pretty much lame speculation and innuendo, with a few mistakes and a couple of wild leaps. Of course, given the name of the site, that's to be expected. :wink:

THIS IS AS FAR AS I CAN GO RIGHT NOW. SOUNDS LIKE PROPAGANDA. IT IS ENOUGH TO GET AN IDEA. NOT PERFECT. WHAT A LANGUAGE. I THINK IT IS CLOSEST TO LADINO, THE LANGUAGE OF THE JEWS EXILED FROM SPAIN BY THE INQUISITION, SOME OF WHOM ENDED UP IN THE ANTILLES.

UN CRISIS FUERA DI PROPORCION!
A CRISIS OUT OF PROPORTION

Sin cu nos tabata kier ni a buske, Aruba a haya su mes den un luz basta negativo durante e ultimo dos simannan, pa motibo di un caso cu ta sigui mantene nos atencion claba riba dje. WITHOUT WANTING OR LOOKING FOR IT ARUBA FINDS ITSELF IN A PRETTY NEGATIVE LIGHT THE LAST TWO WEEKS BECAUSE OF A CASE THAT CAPTIVATES OUR ATTENTION.

E tin e apariencia di no ta bayendo ningun caminda, cu el a stanca, cu e speranza di haya Natalee cu bida ta menguando. Hopi hende, tanto local como stranhero, a buske tur caminda sin exito. A usa ekiponan sofistica y cachonan experto den localiza curpanan dera sin resultadonan positivo. E mucha muher ta sigui desapareci, el a somenta sin laga hueya, creando un misterio cu ta bayendo pa largo.

IT APPEARS IT IS NOT GOING WELL, THAT IT IS STAGNATED. THE HOPE OF FINDING NATALEE ALIVE IS DISAPPEARING. HOPE IS FADING BOTH LOCAL AND FOREIGN AS THE SEARCH GOES ON WITHOUT SUCCESS THAT THE SEACH IS WITHOUT SUCCESS. SOPHISTICATED EQUIPMENT AND DOGS THAT FIND BODIES ARE WITHOUT POSITIVE RESULT. THE GIRL IS STILL DISAPPEARED WITHOUT A TRACE CREATING A MYSTERY THAT GOES ON TOO LONG.

Ta unda a keda nos pa buske? E lo ta scondi den algun cas, protegi pa algun amigo o conocido, of e ta ser reteni contra su voluntad pa cualke grupo iregular? E por a yega Merca? No ta importa si el a laga su pasaporte atras, pasobra Americanonan por sali di Aruba cu cualke carchi di identificacion manera rijbewijs, carchi di seguro social, o certificado di nacimento.

WHERE CAN WE LOOK THAT HAS NOT BEEN SEARCHED? IS SHE HIDDEN IN SOME HOUSE, PROTECTED BY SOME FRIEND OR ACQUAINTANCE OR IS SHE BEING HELD AGAINST HER WILL BY SOME IRREGULAR GROUP? IT IS NOT IMPORTANT THAT SHE LEFT HER PASSPORT BEHIND. AN AMERICAN CAN LEAVE ARUBA ON ANY ID, DRIVERS LICENCE, SOCIAL SECURITY CARD OR BIRTH CERTIFICATE

E por ta na Venezuela o Colombia? E ta improbable, pero semper e posibilidad ey ta keda existi. Cu un lancha rapido bo por yega e costa mas cercano di Falcon den mey hora. Si e ta na bida ainda, di con no por a haye cu tanto esfuerzo cu a ser desplega y tanto voluntario cu a rondea den delaster pida mondi y costa na Aruba? Y si e ta morto, pakico no por a localiza ni rastro di su restonan?

IS SHE IN VENEZUELA OR COLOMBIA? IT IS NOT PROBABLE BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY. A FAST BOAT CAN ARRIVE IN FALCON IN A HALF HOUR. IF SHE IS STILL ALIVE, WHY CAN'T SHE BE FOUND WITH THE MASSIVE EFORT AND SO MANY VOLUNTEERS SEARCHING THE HILLS AND COAST OF ARUBA. AND IF DEAD, WHY IS THERE NO TRACE OF HER REMAINS?

Cu e caso aki por afecta turismo? Claro cu si, pero esey no ta nos preocupacion primordial. Loke tin nos angustia ta Natalee mes. Cualke caida den turismo nos por recupera, pero Natalee ta keda iremplazable! Ta e factor humano ta ocupa nos mentenan y curazonnan, pasobra e parti material, o sea turismo, nos por remedia. Ta e dolor di su famia nos ta comparti, ta e angustia di e mayornan a acapara nos compasion.

COULD THE CASE AFFECT ON TOURISM? SURELY BUT THAT IS NOT THE MAIN CONCERN. WE WILL RECOVER FROM ANY DROP IN TOURISM. BUT NATALEE WILL REMAIN IRREPLACEABLE. IT IS THE HUMAN FACTOR THAT OCCUPIES OUR MINDS AND HEARTS ABOVE THE MATERIAL CONCERNS, OR TOURISM, WHICH WE CAN REPAIR. WE SHARE THE PAIN OF THE FAMILY AND THEIR AGONY CAPTURES OUR COMPASSION.

ta conserva e opinion cu ni maske cuanto hende pinta Aruba preto na Merca, semper tin otronan cu ta defende nos isla pasobra nan conoce y nan sa cu Aruba ta keda un di e lugarnan mas sigur na mundo.

THE FACT REMAINS THAT WHEN SOMEBODY PAINTS ARUBA BLACK IN THE MARKET, THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER WHO KNOWS ARUBA REMAINS ONE OF THE SAFEST PLACES IN THE WORLD.

No ta e beyeza di nos beachnan so a yama e atencion di e turistanan cu ta bishita nos isla repetidamente y den gran cantidad, ta e calidad humano di nos poblacion a conkista nan curazonnan.

IT IS NOT JUST THE BEAUTIFUL BEACHES THAT ATTRACT ATTENTION OF TOURISTS WHO VISIT OVER AND OVER AGIN AND IN LARGE NUMBERS BUT ALSO THE HUMAN QUALITY OF OUR POPULATION WHICH CONQUEST THEIR HEARTS

Ta e trato cu nan a ricibi di nos hendenan a haya eco den nan sentimentonan, pesey awor nan ta recompensa nos cu nan palabranan cari¤oso; cu nan defensanan na fabor di nos isla; cu nan protestanan publico contra esnan cu sin conoce nos isla o nos pueblo ta asina dispuesto di expresa opinionnan negativo sin e aval di realidad.

THE TREATMENT THEY RECEIVE FINDS ECHO IN THEIR SENTIMENTS AND IS COMPENSATED IN THEIR AFFECTIONATE WORDS WHICH DEFEND THE ISLAND AND PROTEST PUBLICLY AGAINST THOSE WHO WITHOUT KNOWING THE ISLAND EXPRESS NEGATIVE OPINIONS WITHOUT THE BACKING OF REALITY.

Pasobra Aruba no ta un lugar unda criminalidad tin un incidencia halto, un caso manera esaki por a logra tanto atencion den exterior. E ta un incidente aisla, perpetra pa elemento(nan) aheno na nos cultura, na nos disposicion pacifico, na nos caracter amplio, abierto, y decente como Pueblo.

BECAUSE ARUBA IS NOT A PLACE WITH A HIGH CRIME RATE, ONE CASE LIKE THIS ONE CAN GRAB ATTENTION OVERSEAS. IT IS AN ISOLATED INCIDEN PERPETRATED BY ELEMENTS ALIEN TO OUR CULTURE, OUR PEACEFUL DISPOSITION OUR AMPLE CHARACTER, OPEN AND DECENT AS A PEOPLE


E ta ademas, un caso lora den nubianan di misterio cada vez mas denso, menos penetrable hasta pa e wowonan mas experto den e mundo policial y investigativo. Esaki ta un desaparicion cu no a laga evidencianan palpable, algo solido riba cual Polis por traha.

Fuera di esey, mi tin entendi cu e detenidonan no ta bisando nada adicional, sino simplemente cu nan a laga Natalee (cu o sin Joran) riba e tereno un tiki panoord di Marriott hotel. E storia aki nan ta sigui ripiti cu insistencia, aunke tin tambe varios discrepancia den nan declaracionnan.

Pa loke ta trata e eficiencia di nos cuerpo Policial, no laga ningun hende ga¤a nan mes: e ta di e mihornan den nos region, y sigur uno cu nos por bisa cu conviccion di ta hopi profesional.

Nos cu a sigui nan actividadnan durante e ultimo 25 a¤anan di cerca por bisa den voz halto cu ta trata di un cuerpo policial cu tin un integridad grandi, y esey ta descarta cualke posibilidad di un tapamento o un complicidad basa riba amistad cu un of otro familiar di cualke un di e detenidonan.

Den mi buki di tur e hechonan delictivo cu a tuma lugar riba nos isla durante e ultimo 25 a¤anan, e actuacionnan certero di e Cuerpo Policial di Aruba ta skirbi cu leternan di oro!

E caso di Natalee a pone nos den un crisis emocional grandi, y otronan cu no conoce nos isla y no sa con nos Pueblo ta razona, a convirtie den un crisis publicitario fuera di tur proporcion.

Na Aruba no ta existi criminalnan cu ta cana rond pa inventa maldad na cada paso; nos no tin e sicopatanan cu ta pasa man pa un revolver y ta cuminza dispara pa loco contra hendenan inocente; Aruba ta un isla trankilo, yen di humanismo y consideracion pa e bienestar di otronan.

Pesey, na nomber di tur loke ta husto, ta tempo pa e imagen negativo cu voluntariamente of involuntariamente a ser crea di nos isla pa algun medio di comunicacion cu no tabata sa mes unda Aruba ta keda, ser coregi.

Ta pesey tambe cu algun di nos a acepta pa duna declaracionnan na un of otro canal di television Mericano, no pa busca fama o crea un imagen cu lo desaparece hunto cu e regreso di e medionan ey, sino pa purba contraresta e da¤o cu a ser causa pa e misterio aki.

No ta kedami nada otro di bisa sino cu mi ta spera cu Natalee ta bibo y cu e lo haya e caminda di regreso pa su cas, su famianan y su amigonan na Birmingham, ciudad cu mi conoce bon, y e Pueblo di Alabama cu, segun mi experiencia personal na e Estado ey, ta igual na esun di nos den e grandeza di su curazon y su sentido di compasion.

Al fin y al cabo mi a studia y a gradua na Mobile, Alabama, y por papia cu cierto autoridad di e cualidadnan humano di su Pueblo. No ban yega na conclusionnan ekiboca tocante esey djis pasobra un canal sin importancia ni alcance nacional, a hinca den su cabez pa haci un yamado pa un boycot cu no ta bay haya oido ni acogida den e resto di e poblacion Americano, y cu no ta ahusta su mes tampoco na e concepto Americano di "fair play.”

http://www.diarioaruba.com/dialuna/editorial/index.html
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_________________
just the facts

My guess is that it's more like Greta followed Beth around while she was passing out her prayer slips...they came to VDS home, Beth spoke with them for a few minutes.  90 minutes is probably the amount of time Greta was with Beth, IMO.

:shock:

WTH is going on???
BHT knows Natalee was at Jorans that night? Is this confirmed???

Sorry, I've been to bust today trying to save myself from getting fired all while buying a laptop so I can be mobile now.. i.e. sit on my azz watching Greta & posting at the same time LOL :oops:

I think they are allowed to petition, but the court can say no.  I believe they actually did say no today.

I'm guessing she has information from the investigation not available to the public.  My guess would be one of the suspects gave this out in investigation, or they have some sort of email from joran saying this.

IF YOU ARE LYING THAT DOES NOT MAKES YOU A MURDERER!

IF THAT WAS TRUE 60%  OR MAYBE MORE OF THE WHOLE WORLD WOULD BE MURDERERS.

WHAT HAPPENS TO INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY???

WE CAN ONLY SPECULATE B/C WE DON`T KNOW ANYTHING UNTIL WE HEAR FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHAT THEY HAVE


Sorry caps was on :?

sarah, the theory behind suspects having rights is to protect innocent people like you, should you ever be falsely accused of a crime.

In order to ensure that you have that protection, those same rights are extended to accused people that you think are guilty.

thanks sarah

Your eyes !!!!   Im petrifierd of lightning and am planning on making
an appt to see if a hypnotherapist could help me. Maybe I can save a bunch of money by just staring at THAT eye. Intense !!

Glad you asked!  I have been able to find nothing,  nada, nilch about this character.  Have we heard about Lorenzo from any source other than ArubaGirl or American in Aruba (I forget who), who reported it as "rumor"?

As I hope the same but I think we are all frustrated and I hope anything they are keeping to themselves is because they are onto where she is. I can only pray.

[quotewhitney


      as far as father jvds i heard he was not a lawyer or a jodge but filled in on an occasional basis/ like a substitute teacher/  maybe he was hooking someone big/political up with major amounts of x?

LOL...sorry. and imagine what it was like for me when the flash went off!

Thanks iquitos for the translation :)

I imagine that they are all being leaned on fairly heavily.  Joran liked to be the center of attention, now he just happens to have everyone's attention.

No, I heard it said on Fox, Greta and BT where in the home for 90 minutes.

tonight must be the night Greta goes through the VDS's trash cans as I predicted earlier.

about confessions

there have been many cases where someone has been interrogated for several hours without a break, youthful offenders and adults, and they will confess to anything just to make it stop

and then they recant their confession and say they confessed under duress

and in many instances it is later proven that they were in fact innocent

sometimes the confession is thrown out, other times not and sometimes an innocent person went to jail to be cleared later......

I think presence of counsel is another factor but I cannot imagine any lawyer allowing their client to be grilled for that long continuously

Have the equine folks raised enough money yet to travel to Aruba?  Did John Travolta come through for us?

Thanks for adding that--I was supposed to put they chew on something instead of grinding their teeth--another sign

No cameras were inside the house.  We will have to rely on what Greta says tonight on her show at 10 pm EST.

WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHO IS GUILTY AND WHO IS INNOCENT?
WE HAVE WHAT WE CALL DUE PROCESS TO GET AT THE TRUTH AND TO METE OUT APPROPRIATE PUNISHMENT.  IT IS CALLED DUE PROCESS.  THE ENTIRE JUDICIARY AND THE RESPECTIVE POLICE FORCES ARE IN PLACE TO PROTECT THE INTERESS OF SOCIETY (THE VICTIMS) WHILE AT THE SAME TIME MAKING SURE WE DON'T FALSELY ACCUSE AND PUNISH THE INNOCENT.   IT IS AN OLD PRINCIPLE WHICH DISTINGUISHES US FROM BARBARIANS.

YES
INQUITOS DESERVES A MAJOR CYBER-RUB!!!!! :lol:

has anyone seen DJTaylor? Did she have her baby?

As I hope the same but I think we are all frustrated and I hope anything they are keeping to themselves is because they are onto where she is. I can only pray

Caligirl, I think you're right.  Unfortunately if the reports of profilers (behavior specialists) is true,  I don't believe the outcome will be positive.  IMO, you'd bring them in to confirm truth or deceit of a story, (they're not always doing "predictive" profiling) and model what's likely to have happened.  Pending the outcome of that, then they'll confirm to the family what happened formally and decide charges.

They are allowed but a judge has turned them down til the suspects are charged.

I know this scenario has been discussed, but it certainly is one that's made more sense as all these casts of 4 characters are now in prison or jail.  The three boys are now reported in the KIA prison, and the infamous SGC is in his jail cell.

For those who've not read the story, here it is:  http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/

How could anyone in the US discussing details of what happened in Aruba hamper an investigation that is taking place in Aruba? Help me out please because I don't understand that logic.

thanks

I saw and heard on fox-the judge already said they are not interested in the motion.  The suspects have to be charged where right now they are accused.  So the lawyer can not help the family with that right now.

no idea...just got back...did you see how many letters/word i can put together if i really try???  

 :lol:

Greta met with BHT this am for an interview (I think) and she asked Beth how she was feeling this am, BHT said I'm angry. Greta asked why and BHT said she wanted to talk to the VDS'sand greta said let's go. She'll be on later with "the rest of the story"

I noticed in the teaser on Fox that Natalee's mother was carrying books of some type.  I'm wondering if it was albums of Natalee, or something like that.  She was trying to appeal to them as a parent, maybe?  Telling stories about her daughter, etc.

LOL, Kerin, maybe she had her producers do that while she was distracting them with her 90-minute interview?   :wink:

Maybe the garbage contents will be tomorrow's OTR 'scoop'...

FOM..I am so proud of you! Your are growing up so quickly!!!  :wink:

I don't know if anything came out on the pictures found--

Yeah Monkey, they will probably keep us hanging all day just to see a few banana peels and a used copy of People Magazine.

cancon wrote:





That is absolutly true, it`s the same in Holland, the famous case is
that of 2 guys who been in prison for over 6 years b/c the confessed to a murder they don`t even commited only b/c of the pressure with the interrogation
They are free now and they sued the dutch state and won over that.

Here it isn`t legal to do some sort 'hard' interrogation here `this sort of interrogation is called; "de zaanse verhoormethode". I believe in the US this system it`s called the 'Reidtechnique".

How could anyone in the US discussing details of what happened in Aruba hamper an investigation that is taking place in Aruba? Help me out please because I don't understand that logic.

CancunMole, it's inconceivable to me that it would hamper it, unless there are details which can be construed in a manner the Holloways don't agree with. That is a point of concern for me, and does make me slightly wary about the "whys" behind that statement.

Thank you.

 

AND IF SOMEBODY TELLS THEM WHERE NATELEE IS UNDER DURESS AND GOES SCOTT FREE BECASUE OF THE ILLEGAL INTERROGATION METHODS THEN THAT IS OK?   WE ARE TALKING LEGAL MINOR HERE FOLKS.  DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.

UH OH....warning to our Aruban friends. Mrs. Holloway showed up at the VDS house again without an invitation. Just letting you all know before we get into the details of the meeting.

Thanks Iquitos, but can you finish the translation. Especially that last paragraph, where the writer talks about being a graduate student in Mobile, Alabama. Papiemento is really rough.

Per Greta on O'Reilly: BHT & AVDS enbraced when meeting after Beth was yelling over the gate and Papa VDS let Greta & BHT in

but let me play devil's advocate for a moment, the family wants to find Natalee and who care's about the legal ramifications

but if Natalee is in fact dead, and the Aruban police screw up the investigation so that the perpetrators get off, then everyone is going to be screaming blue murder again,  because then they will want justice for the death of their daughter......this is exactly what happened in Bermuda, when that 15 year old Canadian girl foolishly hopped on a motorcycle with two guys, she and her friend were stranded after a concert at 4:00 am, there were no taxis around, and rather than call the one girl's parents [they lived on the island, Canadian girl was visiting] they hopped on motorcycles with three guys, now the one girl, her ride was a nice guy and dropped her off at her house, the other two didn't drop off their passenger, she was raped and murdered and found on a beach in the St. Georges section of the island

Bermuda rushed to judgment, they gave this Jamaican illegal a plea bargain before the forensics came back, turned out he was the one who raped her, the other guy just held her down, maybe, the Bermudian accomplice got off, the Jamaican guy got a  light sentence and there were a number of appeals, the girl's parents were pushing for some kind of justice and were bitterly disappointed.......

now if they find out Natalee was alive and there was a window of opportunity which was missed, then everyone is going to be screaming blue murder at the Aruban authorities again

thanks Diva...I just wanted to put that part in about them going because I know it was a big discussion point the other night about them going unannounced.
Greta just said Mrs VDS said her son is being interrogated for up to 11 hours a day

VDS believe in in Jorans innocence, but the 90 min meeting got very emotional, Beth asked some hard ?'s to the VDS, The Parents say they want to help BHT find Natalee also, Father VDS appeared nervous, wringing his hands... commercial

O Really is stealing Gretta Van Susteren's thunder.  He's going to milk her for all the information in her report making her show OLD NEWS.

He's a jerk to do that.

Did we all know that Mrs VDS was not at home when all this happened? She was in Holland. If I did, I must have forgotten.

HEAR THAT?  JORAN'S MOM WAS NOT HOME WHEN NATALEE CAME CALLING!

Just because these two security guards were not the ones, that alone would not rule out the HI story.  Do we have evidence that the story has really changed to the Marriot?


Why would they go to the Marriot--better beaches?

This is one really strange case that probably has a simple truth--hidden somewhere in the tangle.

News to me.

This makes JVDS the ultimate latch key kid.

{{{{Kerin & fellow Monkeys}}}}

This is SO hard, I can put myself in BHT shoes & AVDS, I imagine both hearts are beyond broken. I can't wait until GVS's show tonight...

 :cry: too bad I won't have my new laptop so I can post & watch at the same time. grrr.

Good evening everyone - just got in - have been out most of the day trying to pretend I have a real life.
Sped read through 8 or 9 pages - firstly - was an OR nurse in a previous life and was around in the early 70"s when they were test driving ketamine - it was hysterical in the recovery room - the patients were barking like dogs.
What is Greta doing - morphing into a social worker? She is becoming part of the story - isn't that a little dangerous?

correct Iquitos...only dad was home (if Natalee actually went there that is)

I'll bet Geraldo is just turning green with envy, Greta has outscooped him again............

I like the fact that Greta takes you around the island so you can get a feel for the situation.........but that girl needs a fashion stylist, I cannot imagine wearing those preppy button down shirts in Aruba in June, HOT HOT HOT

A most interesting linguistical tidbit!

She wears them here in DC in August with 100% humidity.

Yes, and please, GRETA, do something with your hair, hon...bless your heart.

I just caught the tale end of that as well.  I personally have never heard that she was away in Holland when this all took place.  Mr. was at the home.

yes it is tough, Diva. Mrs. VDS would of course think her son is innocent and hey...she wasn't even in the country to know for sure!!

She already did something to her face. On the subject of Greta we are missing a poster, I believe from Atlanta?

Loulou, you snatched the words right off my fingers. Except I was going to call him something less polite. ;)

Maybe forensics or pics on someones camera??? *shrugs*

Thank you RB. The thing I'm not getting is that they're not happy that their not getting information from Aruba.

I don't bother with O Reilly anyway, stealer.......

wow if mama was away that day what about the rest of the kids too?

because you know when mama is away, daddy will often play ooh I just had a real kinky and sad scenario, what if daddy was in on the sexual hijinks, would Joran give up his old man that easily???? and is the old man the one manipulating all the friends??? does he have stuff on them maybe?

ok I'm going mad but hey it would make a great episode of L & O or CSI

Maybe thats why PapaSmurf was wringing his hands & evasive per Greta, he was the only one home that night??  :?

I can just hear NBC's promo "RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES; A NEW LAW & ORDER"  LMFAO

WE SPECULATED THE OLD MAN WAS IN HOLLAND, NOTHING ON THE MOTHER

ok......
but Greta was out of line broadcasting from the doorstep of the Kalpoe home!!!

There were first rumours that dad vds was in Holland as I remember correctly.

So IF the dad was in Holland, he couldn't have been at McD at 3 am, huh?

Just listened to O'Reilly-that were talking with Greta-only video when first arrived and left-Greta said VDS did not want video of that

1. Was going to spend day with BHT just to see what she does. Greta asked what BHT would really like to do-she said to talk to the Dutch Boys parents, Greta said let'sgo
2. Yelling over fence at VDS house-dad let them in
3. Both moms see each other and emotional embrace
4. Mom VDS said she believes her sons innocense-she says he told her he and NH spent time on the beach by Marriott and then he left her there (???????????????)
5.  Dad could not respond to ?'s-he told BHT I can't help since I am not allowed to see my son-can't talk to him
6. Mom VDS is going to visit son again tonight
7.  When mom VDS goes to visit son-really can't talk-when anything is said from either mom or son-guards take him away
8. Mom VDS said they keep ?ing him 11 hours a day

It is said BHT feels JVDS knows something, still believes she is alive, she just wants JVDS to tell her where Natalie is-that she feels he knows. Told parents if JVDS tells her where NH is-she will get her and go home. It was said BHT was not emotional but mom VDS was very emotional in the meeting.

O'reilly said Aruba is still very angry with Media--also informed & warned reporters and journalists-they better not turn this against the country.

WHEW----that is everything--I am sooooo tuning into Greta--I think 8 or 9pm central time, right?  I am slow...

Thank you RB. The thing I'm not getting is that they're not happy that their not getting information from Aruba.

CancunMole,  they sort of understand the Dutch law, but I think they believe that their case should be handled by the Arubans and Dutch the way we do here - although I can tell you that in high profile cases (for example, the sniper case here in the DC area and several child abduction cases in Florida and California recently) the police can be very closedmouthed, even to the family.

NO, the MOM was in Holland that night.

 :wink:

somebody get O"Reilly off the air!!! He is a big old news stealer!!!!

NH has now been placed at VDS batchleor pad (rumor).

 This reminds me of a post on the aruba board before it got pulled down.  that folkes should ask about, "what was in that drink at 3:15 am that night." and what about that 2 hour boat ride

We know he had just returned, were they actually there together without the kids for the period of time right before this? Say in the days leading up to the disapperance, could she have been at the house before that night? No parents bring the tourist girl back to the pad?

Yeah, but for the longest time we were even asking about the Dad - where was he etc etc.  We saw Mom, but never Dad and now we discover Dad was around all the time?

:HMMMMMMM:

This is going to end up like the OJ case except we will never know what happen with NH.

Been over 3 weeks and no one is yet to break and I doubt very seriously if they will. In 3 months they will be set free and they know 3 months is better than life so they will not talk.

Only hope is too find NH and that will take some extremely good luck.

Looks like the bad guys win another one.

 :(

OMG - I'm slammed at work, can't keep up with you guys too. Could someone please post bullet points periodically, so I don't have to scroll through everything?  PLEASE!  :lol:

Dad was in Aruba...the mother was in Holland.

Okay, I could swear that the mom said that the next day Joran told "US what had happened....". So, I'm guessing that she was referring to both herself and her husband, if that is what she said. And, of course, if it's true.
If either of them came from NL, they could have been up, since it would have been 9am Dutch time.

its starting to bother me how rehearsed micky johns tv interview seemed---the way he was going over what he "heard" while in his cell near one of the Kalpoes. looked like he was reading a teleprompter in his mind or something. i would like to see all details known regarding their employment/possibly new guards that replaced them at the Allegro resort/ and also their alibis


anybody??

According to Greta, just now on TV, J told his mother that he left NH on the beach. AVdS also said that when she visits him, if she tries to talk to him about the case, he is taken away. AVdS to visit him tonight

I just think daddy has something to do with it, one way or another. Now this is interesting that momma wasn't home.........one less witness

Minor point but that explains why Joran was allowed to be rude to Mrs. Holloway when she asked Joran "where is my daughter" while sitting in a car and clutching Natalee's photo.
Because I seriously doubt any mother would allow their son to be rude in that instance and not SLAP HIM UP SIDE HIS HEAD!!!  :twisted:

Remember though all the speculation that the father was in Holland and that Joran and the father went to Holland and then came back. It was the mother!

Am I correct that only the father was questioned this weekend and not the mother?

I would like to know the following.

VDS Mom and Dad where abouts during the whole time MB students where there.

Natalee's whereabouts each of the other nights during the trip.

Here's a wild theory. What if Geraldo was right? What if he were right when he said, "I have it from an impeccable source, an impeccable source. . ." And what if he was run off the island because his sources dried up? And what if Greta was brought in because she had better courtroom skills? You know how that works, you work hard to establish your credentials and to establish rapport, before asking the hard questions. And what if Greta has access to that same "impeccable source."
It will be something to see this bulldog get the marrow out of the bone.

Interview with Beth Twitty coming up on CNN Headline (Nancy Grace Show)

Correct. Mother got to talk to Joran, but was not questioned.

Thanks

" think those kids are just too scared to tell the Aruban authorities the truth because they fear that they'll be blamed for what happened."

 well, Bob......they ARE to blame.....

accidental or incidental or unintended......that point is moot.....

they lied from the gitgo and have changed their stories....

did you forget that there is one lonely crushed  mother waiting for answers and these nice "Boys" can't even give her that.....

ROB:

THIS IS TERRIBLE  MY MOST PROFOUND CONDOLENCES TO YOU.

Remind me again what geraldo stated as fact after saying he had it from an impeccable source.

Great post.

OK, I'm outta here.  Gotta go home, feed the munchkins and get back here as soon as I can.  {{{{{{monkeys}}}}}}

Now those 2 match up--that was what I heard Greta say mom VDS said about son. O'reilly said..OK the beach is for romance, making out or parties-why would a guy just leave the girl there...Greta also ?'d that and said either it was mutual or the guy is just a jerk.

Without going into the rest of your post, I think these first two sentences show the plausibility!  :D

But seriously, we know Geraldo said a bunch of stuff that was crap.  He said Joran drove the fanciest car on the island for one.  Of course, Jaron wasn't even old enough to drive, didn't have a car, and his parents' cars weren't fancy (a jeep and a sedan, I believe).

OR THE GUY IS A LIAR

 

PROF:  YOU FORGOT HER USE OF THE INTERNET ON 7 JUNE ASLO FROM THE RADIO

Good evening monkeys..How is everyone tonight? I am sitting on pins and needles waiting for Greta......

Yall see Jennifer Wibanks with Katie Couric? I think if I were John Mason, I'd be the runaway groom.....Imagine waking to this  :shock:  every morning....LOLOL

well, Bob......they ARE to blame.....

accidental or incidental or unintended......that point is moot.....

they lied from the gitgo and have changed their stories....

did you forget that there is one lonely crushed mother waiting for answers and these nice "Boys" can't even give her that.....

It's my opinion that we haven't heard everything that happened up to the time Natalee got in the car from the students who knew Natalee best, either.

I can imagen that if I was with a guy on a beach and maybe he wanted more than I would or I became angry over him for whatever reason,
I would also say to this guy go away leave me alone or something.

And maybe he tried to get her out of there b/c he didn`t thought is was  responsible to leave a girl alone. But if natalee is hardheaded she wouldn`t go anyway again with him i guess. So maybe after that he went away.

 

MARTIN THANKS FOR YOUR UNORTHODOX VIEWS THAT COME AS CLOSE TO THE TRUTH.

as an aside I love Law & Order and speaking of another botched investigation, my favourite Law & Order episode is based on the Paul Bernardo/Karla Homolka case

[as a young female at that time it was very scary, there were four women abducted and killed in a short time frame, in the area where I live,  I remember driving down the highway when the search teams were scouring around the highway looking for one girl who had been abducted and her body burned and then I realized in a rare trip to Ottawa, we had driven past the spot where the one girl's body had been dumped and was found like the next day, that De Villier girl

two of the girls were abducted and killed by Paul Bernardo and his wife

[the poor mother of one of the girls, she had locked her daughter out of the house because she was consistently breaking curfew, and Bernardo picked her up in the middle of the night]

now they gave Karla a deal if she agreed to testify vs her husband but they found a videotape later that showed that Karla, far from being the battered wife she claimed, was not only a willing participant but she helped her husband rape her own sister (they videotaped the rape) and they had given her horse tranquilizer, and she vomited and choked, and Karla worked for a vet, she was the one who got the tranquilizer

now in Law & Order, good old McCoy got the plea bargain set aside because a condition of any plea bargain agreement is that you tell the truth and any lies about the material facts void the agreement, but in Canada they were too wussy to set aside the plea bargain and besides they still needed Karla to testify vs her husband to put him away for good.......

Karla baby is getting out soon....so if you are in Montreal, watch out for the vampire

impeccable source or unimpeachable source? and what did Geraldo know?

Hi Nikki (((hugs)))
No  :shock:  JW for me, I won't give her the ratings, ppl like her that will make ppl question REAL missing persons cases in the future JMO   :x

Are/were they the only two people on Aruba with BLACK security uniforms.? Didnt they find a discarded black uniform ?

Iquitos, SOMEONE used the AOL account.

That post was traced back to an ISSP in the US that same night.

cancon, I followed that story too. Karla is whack.

Ummm...ok

Didn't one of the hotel secuirty video cameras pick up the picture of a girl looking like Natalee walking alone on the beach that night?  which hotel was that?

That certainly is plausible.  

It also places SGCroes in the proximity of NH...w/ or w/o Joran VDS.

From all accounts, it seems JVDS hooked up regularly.  It didn't take him maliciously slipping something into girls' drinks for them to willingly have sex with him.  With the volume of international media exposure on this case, I have to believe, by now, that any American girl that JVDS drugged and raped would have come forward.  

What is the likelihood, however, of a girl reporting a rape if she knowingly, voluntarily took a drug like ecstasy while in his company?

80% of the world's ecstasy comes from the Netherlands and Belgium.  With daily flights from Amsterdam, the Aruban market is fully saturated with pure X, unlike what is sold in many cities in the US.

With NH's classmates on the trip remaining silent, and knowing that JVDS hung out at the HI for a good part of the week, and a large number of the kids pulled an all-nighter their last night in Aruba, it keeps open the possibility that a sizable number of kids were game to trying ecstasy.

Natalee, naive to the effects of both alcohol and ecstasy, at the encouragement of JVDS, may well have consciously decided to try X for the first time.  Even if she wasn't drinking to excess, the potential for overdosing increased exponentially.

Piecing the story together, it seem most plausible that JVDS got the X from DK, who got it from SGC.  NH overdosed on the beach w/ JVDS.  His guilt, and feeling the need to cover it up, likely stems not from him giving her the drug, but because they likely had sex; leaving him the primary suspect.  JVDS panicked, brought NH to his house.  PVDS, knowing the law, believing it was an accident, and not wanting his son's life to be ruined, helped facilitate NH's disappearance.

Remaining questions:

WHAT did NH drink at C&C's?
HOW were NH and JVDS dancing?
WHAT did NH eat that day before going to C&C's?
Was NH at the bar when her drinks were ordered, or was she on the dance floor, or in the bathroom, and then handed the drinks by JVDS or another friend?
Did NH go to C&C's with JVDS, or did they meet up there?
When did DK, SK and SGC go to C&C's?
What was the shoving match between JVDS and NH's classmates about?

Seems that the FBI has, and BHT has heard enough to satisfy her. Not sure what that means, precisely, but the friends and fellow students don't owe the public any explanation provided they've come forward with what they know to the authorities. What do you bet their stories haven't changed daily, either?

My sis was at the pool today with some friends...one friend started talking about how"the chaperones needed to be more watchful, who would let their kids go on a trip like that" etc..etc...my sis just sat there and watched the drama unfold..never said a word..a mom who's daughter went on the trip to aruba  just so happened to be at the poll..chillin'' and JUMPED HER CHIT...lol....sis said she sat back laughin'....talk about open mouth insert foot.....

I wish people would get off the whole chaperone thingy...

The "impeccale source" allegedly said, "We can't invesigate the family of Paulus van der Sloot. They're our FRIENDS."

The side scan sonar equipment that the EquuSearch guy is talking about on Nancy Grave is AWESOME. There was a lady who drove into the Mississippi about a year or so ago, and they searched and searched the river, but her car was never found. A guy used this sonar equipment on his boat and found her submerged car very quickly. Her family was so grateful to finally be able to bury her.

unimpeachable source, like Bill Burkett, in the CBS fake but accurate memo scandal, LOL

Didn't say they did, however I did see a post earlier where in an article (I think goon posted it) that BHT didn't want the students to be interviewed with the fear it would somehow hamper the investigation. I'll bet they have changed and even grown over time with all the publicity this case has been getting; indeed we have 2 of Natalee's best friends speaking to Greta tonight.

when are the eqqusearch people getting there?

There were guards for the Soul Beach Festival staying at the HI and they wore black uniforms.

Actually, nikki, I'm not talking about the chaperones.

Dr. Iquitos, I must offer an honorary PhD. You continually shame me with your investigative prowess.

That must have been before they interviewed him for 4 hours!  :lol:

Any idea who they are?  Seems like everyone who has come forward (some with names of some without attribution in news articles) has said essentially the same thing about that night. It could hamper the investigation, because if they gave sensitive information to the FBI and then gave it to the public, it could cause the suspects to further change their stories based on whatever evidence might not be in their favor, I'm thinking.

Whitney wrote:



Maybe the brothers and Steve Croes were also at the beach, when joran leaves. w/ or w/o the brothers.

Maybe that`s why( if it`s true) was there the call to Steve Croes that morning at 6.30 to ask if natalee was brought to the hotel safe.

Chill out, dude..nobody said you were..i was referring to the lady at the pool and people from PAST POSTS who ask about the whereabouts of chaperones..dont know who peed in your cornflakes, man, but dont go jumping on people  until you realize exactly why youre jumpin'..had NOTHING to do with you.....

So your sister is in MB?

Nope, LilOrphan, I don't know.  I do know that I can count on 1 hand and a coupe fingers the number of written and media (interview) accounts vouching for Natalee's integrity.  I see very little other than generalizations about the events of the night that really make sense.

Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 90
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
 Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:49 pm    Post subject:    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
"IF YOU ARE LYING THAT DOES NOT MAKES YOU A MURDERER! "
.

WHAT HAPPENS TO INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY???

WE CAN ONLY SPECULATE B/C WE DON`T KNOW ANYTHING UNTIL WE HEAR FROM THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WHAT THEY HAVE "


ah...no....

we can speculate as much as we want...

and don't forget that in Aruba, a person is GUILTY until proved innocent, so as far as I 'm concerned, its the 3 AMigos who need to be prove their innocence...

don't know anything?.....wrong...we know an 18 yro girl is not home in Alabama where she should be...

we know three guys were seen with her that last night...

we know three guys that all lied initially....and got two innocent guys arrested because of that lie....

I am trying to be fair and open, but please don't say "we know nothing" or "we can't speculate" because WE CAN.....

Hey, it doesn't matter if the documents are forged, just believe what we tell you!  :lol:  Dan Rather = Baghdad Bob. "These are not the pictures you are seeing" :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Do you think his or others possible sources are ending up dead ??  Dont know the timeline.

My apologies...and for the record, I'm not a dude :)

yes..well, actually Homewood..about 5 miles or so away.... :D

What I don't understand with all the resources of the Twitty's and their community why the reward isn't raised to a million dollars.  There are a lot of people who may not flip on someone for $75K, but would in a second for a million...

Scott,
I would be willing to bet large sums of money that you have just described almost exactly what has happened.  (Now that I think about it, it makes a whole lot more sense than all the other theories I've read and heard and even proposed myself)  JVDS may have had absolutely no malicious intent whatsoever but that doesn't mean that he is willing to come clean now.  Excellent assessment and all pieces seem to fit like a glove.

my apologies for assuming you were..just thought only a man would make such a quick judgement... <ducking>

right...anyone could log on and maybe a family member did while at the twiitys in the "war room" that must have vbeen immed established there.
ya think?

They don't owe us anything. I am just asking where Natalee was each of the preceding nights and what kind of hours they were all keeping. But your right not owed and I don't expect I ever know.

Dr. Iquitos, I forgot to mention your superior linguistic ablilities. I have a hard enough time with Spanish. I have an even harder time with Dutch. But Papiemento is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond me.

It stands to reason that all information is being withheld, in both countries. The difference probably being that BHT has all the info from the students given to the FBI, but less from Aruba LE.   What do you feel doesn't make sense?  From the perspective of partying kids, I'm still young enough to remember being that age and their accounts seemed to make sense to me. Also, have you seen the web acct by a mom of one of the students?

 

I'm sorry, but I'm going to make this as intellectual, eloquent, condesending and revealing as the crap that Im been forced to scroll over from you since the few days that you've been on here...
find another site...

you're posts are meaningless...

I'm sorry, but HERE...we care about HER...

I dont hear that in you...

you...are a jackass..


sure it's more than one man's opinion...

Like so many of you, my first thought is that she is still alive.  I hold out hope with her Mom and her family and friends.  If she is not, heaven forbid, than I pray that her Mom will still be able to take her home.

I can hardly wait for the TX EquuSearch team to arrive in Aruba (I think they are beginning tomorrow) and get to work.  It seems very likely that Natalee is in the water somewhere and from what I read earlier the sonar equip has been very successful at finding bodies in the water.

actually nikki I agree with you on the chaperones in that this kind of thing can happen any weekend at home when you are talking about teenagers

how many raves or bush parties or after hours parties do these kids go to,  strangers are always crashing these parties, because of the internet now the word really spreads, there were kids who called the cops on their uninvited party guests, the crashers did $100,000 damage to their house, but I digress.....

how many kids have died on their first E trip because they didn't know to keep hydrated, imagine taking E in hot hot hot Aruba, oh I forgot this kids are from Alabama so they are used to hot hot hot, I'm Canadian and I found Aruba hot in January.......

most girls are date raped by guys they go to school with and most say nothing

I didn't see what you said about the pool - I must have missed it.  I'll go back and look, but understand all I saw was what LilOrphan and I had been posting and thought it had been misconstrued.  (It happens here, you know?) Only a woman would ask a guy who peed in his cornflakes though ;)

Odd Saddam doesn't like Fruit Loops who would've thought.

Agreed.  After wading through post after post after post after post, what Scott said is very right on track and makes more sense than anything I've read.

lee wrote:




Ofcourse you can speculate, b/c that`s it just speculations! Just as we all do here.
And in Aruba it isn`t it so that you are GUILTY until proven INNOCENT I don`t know how you came up with that idea?

I'll bet it's probably close to that but I would add - Croes is Deepaks connection. Deepak may have slipped the drugs into Natalee's drink without Joran's knowledge. I heard it was rufies not xtc. :shock:

Ok, feel free to go back and read...no one was accusing you of anything...everything is ok...truce... :)

How do you know that Joran DIDN'T drive the fanciest car on the island?

I agree. Until all the details are divulged, student trip accounts as well as the 4's accounts will the complete truth be known.

"It's my opinion that we haven't heard everything that happened up to the time Natalee got in the car from the students who knew Natalee best, either."

RB....I agree with you....I may be the only one here that thinks the students should have been quizzed extensively before they even unpacked their bags.....

and ironically, we really know very little about our own American contingent that went there...who the "chaperones" were , who the students were, etc...

we do have at least two eyewitnesses though who were NOT students or chaperones that saw Natalee that night , get up and leave, not with JOran and his imbeciles, but with them in the vicinity....this from a tourist from Michigan.....

The other kids who were there that were not expecting this. It was the last night of the big trip. It is not likely that they were carefully observing every single thing, and recording all the details and sequence and timelines. They were at a party bar, partying.

Then all of a sudden people want them to recollect every second that they saw one classmate, who was she with, there in the dark, where did she go from there, what time was it, who else saw her, then what, and over and over again.

And only a handful of them actually saw Natalee in the company of Joran, and the one young lady who was on last night said she knew it was Joran because he was tall and had dark hair. And she saw this, while she was in the company of another friend. Singular.  And there was a young man who said he saw Natalee in the bar dancing with Carlos and Charlie's. These are the ones who, as far as we know, saw the most relevant things, and those things that they did see were not alarming or frightening.

In fact, I have not heard any student who actually saw Natalee get into the car with the 3 boys, though there was one report of seeing her *in* a car, but whether that person could also identify all the 3 in that same car, who knows?

It was the final night big bash. They had no reason to focus on Natalee's every move, nor is it likely that Natalee was the only one who spent part of the last night dancing and spending time with another young person who had caught their eye and who was not part of their school group.

So it is not like all 130 of them will have a whole lot to say, to anybody, except they hope Natalee is reunited with her family soon.

WHY DO YOU THINK THE BEAT IT OUT OF DODGE EN MASSE?  THESE ARE NOT DUMB PEOPLE

In respone to the ketamine conversation.  It is typically used in the veterinary clinic in a liquid form as a pre-surgical anesthetic.  There is a problem with theft of this "vit K" from veterinary clinics.  I don't think that addicts smoke it though, I think they are using the same liquid version that vets do and injecting it.

May not have been any slipping. CNC's was really "jumpin" that night and most of the week is my guess. X is prolly like getting a piece of gum in that place.

good theory Scott except if Papa Van Der Sloot, knowing it was an accident, which could be proven by Natalee's dead body, ie if she had OD on X, would be jeopardizing HIS whole career by participating in a cover up, if it was truly an accident, calling the cops and letting there be an autopsy on Natalee would be the best thing to do for everyone, they would be rapped on the knuckles for the X would they not, this is a Dutch colony drug no big whoop......

if there was sex and it was consensual, they can usually tell and if it wasn't consensual they can usually tell

so I think Papa wasn't hiding any accident, he was hiding something else or he knows he is counselling this son in a way to beat the murder rap, which explains why they won't let him talk to the kid.......

I totally agree..I mean , I am ..ahem...i'll say it...30 something...32 to be exact, and i am a grown, very intelligent mother of two..i can chaperone myself, ya know? And I was given a date rape drug...wasnt raped..that i know of, thank GOD..but i was robbed...and woke up in a cab in my front yard..and this happened in lil ole south carolina in a sports bar..on a monday night..surrounded by friends...it can happen to anyone anywhere.....

I can't really buy this one. His dad, prepping to be a judge, 'believing it to be an accident' helped facilitate NH's disappearance?! You make these people sound like seasoned criminals. I'm not ready to take that step based on the information we have, which in reality is very little.

i'm not looking for the poster but yes that is what i heard-unoficially....

Bill Reillys over thank god! :!:

I don't know the screename of this posting, but I think whoever said that she was drugged at the bar, raped, overdosed, and disposed of with help from SC is exactly right.  

Also, regarding the response of those calling for a ban on Aruba.  I think anywhere you are is dangerous, but I would have to think twice before going there since it does not appear as if the Aruban police and government are doing everything they can/should be doing.

Lots of us from TX.

cancun, RB.....Karla is more than wacked.....she is evil....

evil doesn't have to come in the form of a big hairy monster...

it can be insidious......like Karla....and IMO, like what the mother who gave birth to those two children of MJ....then let him have full custody.....

evil IMO....just evil....

The story starts sunday night when a friend of mine was playing poker at a local casino (in the holiday inn) after he won the poker at the fourth place he decided to get up and play some blackjack so he went to the blackjack table and there was natalee (they were a lil drunk ) so my friend started playing blackjack and he was winning quite good , so then natalee approached him and introduced herself and said to him'' your a lucky guy , can you help me win some of my money back i lost $ 360 , of my fathers money'' so my friend said ok , why not . so he started playing and he won 100 $ for her back and he said hey thats the best i can do for you because i doubt it i can win more money for you so its better i quit so she said ok but at least let me buy you a drink so they went to the bar (in the casino ). so they took a drink and started talking etc. about school, the vacation etc.etc.afterwards my friend had to go and she said that ''today is my last day i will be in carlos n' charlies will you be there'' and my friend said well i have school tomorrow i don't think so . well she kept asking him and he said yes i'll be there.So that was in the casino i was not present , i was at work so my friend called me and said hey i met some girls in the casino and her friends and they want us to meet them in carlos tonight do you have to work tomorrow morning i said no , so he said pick me up later then i said ok. so i got off my shift at 10 pm and went home took a bath had to fix something and then me and my younger brother went to pick up my friend was around 12.10 am so i came to his home and was talked for like 15 min and then left to go to carlos (we all went out without our parents knew) so we arrived like 12.30 am in carlos (carlos is closing 1 pm ) and headed straight for the bar and bought 3 drinks my friend paid for them, so besides the bar there is a stage and people were dancing and there was natalee dancing too (thats the first time i saw her )and she was calling my friend to get on the stage and dance with her  my friend laughed and refused so after the song was finished she came up to my friend and asked why he won't dance with her , i only heared that part because i was talking to someone else so i don't know what he responded(by then natalee seemed VERY drunk)so as i said i was talking to someone when i turned i had lost my brother , natalee and my friend. well they were announced that they were closing soon so i thought well maybe they' re waiting for me by the car its better i go there so i went to my car and nobody was there so i started playing music and was waiting on my brother and my friend.i waited for like 10 min and then i saw my brother stepping in the car and my friend who was with natalee. so i was surprised but anyways i started the engine and my brother was besides me and my friend and natalee were in the backseet so i started cruising in the area and asked my friend whats going on so natalee responded to me ''hey its no prob let us just drive around and have fun its my last night , she said you can drop me off later at holiday inn anyways right'' i said sure why not so as i was drove out of the carlos road and got on the mainroad there were natalees friends and she , pushed het head out of the window and screamed something i can't recall.so i was driving very slow to make a left to get in the next road and then one of natalees friend screamed for her to get out of the car , and she refused so then i stopped my car and i said natalee if your friends want you to go with them its better you go listen to them and go with them , she said no i will stay with you guys i will get a lift from you anways later, so she said bye to her friends and i drove away



*for what its worth......*

No body, no murder rap.

I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be close to the truth, myself and others have been saying since the beginning that their was probably some sort of overdose or other form of accidental death.  The whole kidnapping/slavery deal seems to far fetched, and she doesn't seem like the sort of person who would run away.  One thing that is bothering me though is this: why haven't they cracked yet and told?  I wouldn't think that it would be that hard to get some teenagers to crack after interogating them in horid conditons for long periods of time.  But maybe I;m wrong.

Jumping back in...

On O"Reilly's talking points he just said..

The Natalee Holloway story should be on the TV of every home in the US with teens.

and that's true...

BBL

Ewww...Mark Fuhrman coming up.

It was the final night big bash. They had no reason to focus on Natalee's every move, nor is it likely that Natalee was the only one who spent part of the last night dancing and spending time with another young person who had caught their eye and who was not part of their school group.

So it is not like all 130 of them will have a whole lot to say, to anybody, except they hope Natalee is reunited with her family soon

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.  I do recall, however, sharing my feelings with my girlfriends about the teacher I had been secreting dating while still a student for 4 months prior to graduation and having them all at my wedding 2 years later :) All I'm saying is I'm sure she had some good friends closer to her who know more than they've said - even one of the MB'ers on here last night alluded to them being there and that it wouldn't "be a good idea for a number of reasons" for them to be interviewed. Kinda makes you wonder just a tad...

 LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE, NATALEE FELL THORUGH THE CRACKS.

Whitney wrote:




Just speculating :D  :wink:

What the heck is that, WonderWoman?

Yes, WonderWoman.  Have you relayed this story to the authorities?

I saved this from a couple weeks ago when there was some free wheeling  speculation about the GBH (liquid ex)...I wasn't aware of the 80% claim of ex's production from the Netherlands...

but...here's the URL:  http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/gbh.html

The whole reason we're still speaking about this, though, is not only the "blond girl"...but her "blond mother...Beth Holloway is on a mission-of-her-life"..

I've wondered the same thing.

Yeah, what the heck IS that?

WonderWoman's post looks like a statement. Plausible, perhaps.

Wonderwoman, I'm a little confused by your story because you are not saying who your "friend" is.  Have you reported this?  I take it you live in Aruba???  *a little confused*

We have actually heard all of that before just never in summed up like that. That is from Deepak I believe.

For all who are interested...the TX based EquuSearch team is a volunteer organization.  They accept donations at their website equusearch.org.  Their is a very long list of missing persons on their website.  This is a GREAT cause if any of you are looking for somewhere to make a donation.

quote]

I saved this from a couple weeks ago when there was some free wheeling  speculation about the GBH (liquid ex)...I wasn't aware of the 80% claim of ex's production from the Netherlands...

but...here's the URL:  http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/gbh.html

quote]
Dumb questions. Is there a hospital on the island? Have local hospitals been checked? (I know, probably the dumbest post I've made.)

Still waiting for WonderWoman to clarify what that post was.  :?:

I believe they would have it if they took his computer, no doubt.

dated 6/5/2005   :?

umm..ya wanna quit being so vague, pretty please, and let us know what it is your e talkin' about exactly? thanks.. :D

I believe that as well.

nikki, oh my god how horrible

thank goodness you managed to survive that

they were interviewing some US college girls in Aruba this week and when asked about the date rape drug, oh it's very common on our campus, they said it so nonchalantly like it was a fact of life - gee what happened to just getting the chick drunk, I guess too many girls can outdrink the guys I guess......

add to it that some girls are taking GBH on purpose to get high?!?!? :(

man the drugs these days, now I missed the acid and LSD period, thank god, i still have a brain left, we all know the people who used too much acid and LSD and pot from those days, they are space cadets now, if they are still alive, our high school crowd mainly was underage drinking,

but I think the stuff the kids do today, are way more frightening, like crystal meth, crack, estasy, these roofies, kids taking antihistamines to get high, I'd rather they smoked pot frankly........but even the pot is like 100 times more potent than the old days......

I am wondering the same thing--the story u seem to be giving is one of the brothers story----when it came to the car part--OR that just means there are even MORE lies--UGH!!!!!!???!?!?!?!?!?

What does THAT mean? You're being very cryptic.

WW, who are you exactly?  

Ummmm, nooooooooooooooooooooo, not necessarily.  Have you said anything directly to the authorities or made a report just like the story you told here?

We may not ever know the COMPLETE truth, but we can really narrow down the list of prime suspects, and narrow down the possible scenarios, and they ain't pretty.

I agree, Chloe.  Due to the pain and sadness this case is clouded with I think we all want so badly to explain such a loss...in doing so many times we get off on tangents that are not based in much factual info.

Since confirmed info is so hard to come by, wild stories have been rampant.  There is very little we know for sure at this point.

Wonder, did the e-mail end there?  What else happened?

So the dad should be under arrest for impeding the investigation of a missing person.

Its GHB not GBH....and usually is taken in liquid form by the CAPFUL (think water bottle cap), it is SUPER easy to pass out from it ESPECIALLY with alcohol.....3 capfulls could easily knock a person drinking even a few drinks out like a light.....not to mention stop their heart....

i hope this is not the case...

I know iT!!! The worst thing we did in school was drink a Bartles and Jaymes wine cooler...LOL..or grape mad dog...LOL...

Curious, perhaps they're not "cracking" because they don't believe they're guilty if she overdosed after maybe trying a drug for the first time. It's possible- how many people here in their youth have tried an illegal substance once in your life? Some of you might not have, but some have.  Be honest and raise your hands: Pot? Coke? x? Alcohol at below the legal age?

Look at all the press this case has, and the fact at least one of them has had interaction with the mother of the missing girl. Lots of pressure and no interaction directly with an attorney, I don't think.  I'm sure they've no idea what to do, and they've compounded it all by lying the first time, if that's what happened.

I WONDER HOW ALL THIS INFORMATION FROM THE FBI INTERVIEWS IN THE US IS GOING TO BE MADE AVAILABLE IN A DUTCH COURT OF LAW.  OR ARE THEY JUST COLLECTING IT TO ASSIST THE INVESTIGATION? DEPOSITIONS?

In the end he will be arrested for at least obstruction of justice.

GHB makes you stop breathing therefore you suffocate within yourself.

Nikki what is the latest theory?  Been sick.

WonderWoman - will you please explain your post. What is it, where did you get it and what is your purpose in posting it?

thanks

I'm still not buying that Natalee OD'd. Why would they (the boys in custody) not have just said so from the beginning and say where they last saw her TRUTHFULLY. They would have been in alot less trouble, so I still believe, between the 3 , 4 or 5 diff. stories between them, that they DID do something to her. JMO

My Dearest Gaijin:

First off, I absolutely LOVE the tone of your thought, which I imagine to be in a deep-southern drawl for effect, "You, suh, aruh a JACKASS." Priceless.

God bless you for being honest ( and eloquent ! ). I know you don't speak for everyone "here," so we'll just chalk up the majority of your emoting to wishful grandiosity. Eloquent grandiosity though it is !

I agree with your method, however, which is at odds with many who post here: Philosophy is-- "If I don't like it, I just scroll through it."

Noble. Objective. Adult. However, it doesn't mesh with the part where you get fed up and engage in name-calling. Rest assured, gaijin, I not only can take it, I thrive on challenge, discussion, debate, and softballs which get thrown my way.

Maybe you didn't see my post about the Nigeria connection. Interesting stuff. Definitely breaking news and all that. Read all my posts to find it, tho it was recent if that helps. Solid reportage, my man, if I do say so myself!

Hey, as you know I always like to try to inject a little humor in this crazy, hectic, and dangerous world we live in. So here's one just for you gaijin:
( in fact, your post reminded me of it !!! )

If you purchase $100-worth of Natalee bracelets, and $300-worth of Where's Waldo t-shirts, how much can you deduct at tax-time? Take a few minutes. I'll wait. ( ho-dee-hum-dee-dee-dee-dum {that's me waiting} )  Okay. Your answer is?

Correct answer is::: Probably nothing, unless the companies selling them are Federally tax-exempt 501c3 charities ( my guess is they aren't, and of course the joke only works if they indeed aren't ). But if they are, then you've got yourself something! I love those Where's Waldo games, don't you? I can NEVER find Waldo until right when I'm about to quit. Go figure.

Please priv msg me sometime and we can talk more. I don't want to grab too much bandwidth ( "HERE" as you call it ) away from the always important discussions about which level of Hell JVDS should occupy.

Take care, my friend. HONESTLY, you made my day.

Your Friend,

Martin Connahey

ok..bbl..must go watch a bit of tv...

Rob, I am basing my opinion on my hunch that if Natalee's mother had even the slightest whisper of a notion that *anyone* who went on the trip had any information at all that could be of value, beyond having seen her in Joran's company, and possibly the Kalpoe brothers' car, that she would be all over it like Ariel Sharon on a buffet table.

My speculation is that the family prefers that the students stay out of the media because while the two that we have seen are exceptionally poised, well-spoken, and very clear and consistent with their recollections, which they state simply and without adjectives and interjections of personal opinion and twenty twenty hindsight, it would be very unfair to expect most normal kids to be able to handle the kind of media frenzy that is going on in this case, and I suspect another reason is because the parents of all those other kids are disinclined to throw their kids to that, and there may be a little mother to mother conspiracy going on there - if there are kids who do want to go be on Fox, and mom and dad think that's not a good idea, family discord can be avoided if it is also Natalee's mother's wish that they focus their efforts on supporting each other - and the Holloway family - in other ways.

JVS' father should absolutely be arrested.  I think it is actually obvious that he is helping JVS to cover up.  I pray so hard that JVS and the brothers will find it in themselves to be men and take responsibility and tell BHT where her daughter is.  They have to be some of the most selfish, low-down people I've ever heard of.  CYA is all they are thinking about!

It looks to me as a first person summation of all the facts from depaks perspective up to leaving CNC's.

shell..go read wonder womans post a few pages back...WTF? also, watch greta tonight!! Interview with BHT AND the vander sloots..together....LOL

martin, you're a mess.  And I really dig it :)

CAT DR:


Yes it is an e-mail, from Deepak....


TO ALL:

I just received this had it for a few days, and not quite sure what to do, so I was hoping "we" could pick it apart....I had originally thought to bring to someone's attention but

a) Whose? and wouldn't they have it(confiscated computer)
b) It was not written to me. ( so I feel I need owners permission?)

Yet, now I feel like HERE!!! Take it, anything that could POSSIBLY Help!!

so, I am letting you all in on it, and maybe we can, as an intelligent group, figure out what to do with it.

I know what it 'looks' like -- but why won't WonderWoman say more about it? I'm not going to make assumptions like that - it could be someone just making up their version of a supposed confession. But the poster refuses to say anything more about it. That alone makes it suspect.

Ok, now you're making more sense.  WW, everyone jumped because you didn't state that you were not the one who wrote the email.  It looked as though you wrote it yourself.

I have to say, you are VERY perceptive!!!  :lol:

Okay, thanks for explaining.

Where are our MB friends tonight?

GHB is super easy to slip to someone, as well as have them confuse the effects if given while already drunk......maybe SCroes was an older friend and/or part time dealer and called because of previous experience with OD situations.....also, possibly Joran and NH had hooked up a good bit before she stopped breathing and he couldnt revive her - then he freaked realizing that his DNA was in/on her as well as traces of GHB in the system...would look EXACTLY like a date rape, whether it was or not

It's impossible to get through all these posts after being gone for the day.

What's this about Natalee going to Joran's house?  Where did this come from?  Would someone explain? Thanks!

Remember that those on dial up take much longer to reply.  Things move so fast for those of us with high speed connections that we take that time factor as a lack of a reply.

Wonder woman will tell us more I am sure.

I have been doing this awhile.

I took naproxen-in alleve/ and almost died!!!
anaphylactic shock?? first i got all over little red bumps/within an hour/ then my tounge swelled so bad...I hate doctors visits in general so i went to er when i was90% unable to swallow...if there were no hospital near i would have died for sure..

Ummm. being a super hero and all, i think you should know that if that truly is an email from Deepak, and no one has seen nor heard it yet but us, then you need to take it to the proper authorities... WTF???

If it is an email from Deepak, the headers of the email would show it and it would already have been found, either on the computer, servers, or routers in which it passed. (Yes, you can techinically forensically pull such things, isn't that fascinating?) Unfortunately, unless the email was sent directly to you from that machine, the headers will display the last person who sent it to you, WW.

sorry...dont buyit...three weeks later...we've got an outside eyewitness...
...this is cr*p...

WonderWoman:
If this is actually written by Deepak I think you are compelled to give it to authorities on the off chance that they have not seen it.  Do you have an actual message with a stated date and time?

absolut knew.......

The authorities have it.

we used to drink these crap sparkling wines like Lonesome Charlie and Baby Duck, yuk!  I almost get diabetes thinking about it

and when I turned legal, I would drink Singapore  Slings and all I needed was 3 and I was happy

then I went to university where one's alcohol tolerance is greatly increased, oops........

Who are "All"?

What is "This"?

Why should I think this is by Deepak?

Why should I  think this isn't BS?

The earlier email looks like the statement he wrote for police, and somehow has gotten out into emails, or maybe someone summarizing what we've all read in papers was his statement.  I've read that she yelled out of the cars at friends.  I would think her friends could verify if she lost that money in gambling, and if J then won any of it back.  Not that any of those facts would substantiate what happened after 1 am and before the next morning at 5: am when she still hadn't shown up at the hotel.  

I wonder if her friends really did yell to her to get out of the car, or if that was his way of injecting a piece of truth into the story.  Hell, she should have gotten out of the car.

Is there a header on the e-mail somewhere identifying it as coming from deepak?

And you know that how. . . ?

Wonderwoman, do you write fan fic in your spare time?  This was eerie.

gaijin, it could be real, but it's worthless where it is, unless it came from his machine.  If it did come directly to WW, I can bet you dollars to doughnuts (Krispy Kreme, my FAVORITE) the authorities already have it.

Because not one thing in that email is new news.

don't act as if you would know exactly what to do, I assume they have it!
and it doesn't give a whole lot of info other than what we already know.  He could have just been trying out his "story", but i dont believe that  :(

Yes, I live way up a mountain on one of the best fly fishing rivers in the world! BUT, high speed is not available here....in fact, the fastest dial up is 28k....so, it's next to impossible to read all these posts easily.

I'm hoping Tom and Red are working to find an easier way to read here.

It was only eerie because it is in first person.

Exactly!!! which is why I am in no hurry to "turn it in"  I just thought it would help a bit in the theory department.....a fresh POV.

nancy, they are.  Tom posted about it here earlier today.

It is BS people! :lol:

well, baby girl, give us an original header..tell us who you got it from...we'll help you figure it out.....

And you can disprove it how?

GIAJIN, you know, this is the problem...just because this e-mail wasn't on FOX, doesn't mean it's contents are not real!!!!  I can assure you they are, and I am CERTAIN the authorities have it. (from his computer!)

b) It was not written to me. ( so I feel I need owners permission?)

WW, you only need permission "ethically" if you so desire.  You have nothing to fear from a legal perspective, because any email which is not appropriately marked with a disclaimer can safely be forwarded whereever.  It's one of the chances people take by sending email:  it can realistically be sent anywhere and the sender won't know and no one had to notify them that it's been done.

Maybe if the rest of it was posted and verified to be an actual statement. How did you come across it, if you don't mind answering.

I wouldn't tell you who I got it from, I don't even know you or you me. As for the header its already trash. She did not recieve it from Depak.

Funny deepak email uses US english teen talk...
"i waited for like 10 min "... etc
or maybe "like" is used like all the time like all around the world, like ya know?

Pulllease people, get real!!

hmmm, where could this email come from

well either Deepak emailed this to someone before he got arrested and some "friend" has been distributing this all over the net, perhaps in order to help him?

or there is someone leaking information out of the police department in Aruba (common in NA) and someone should be getting on that.......

TY!!   8)


wish I was on a porch overlooking the river......


I would have liked to discuss certain aspects of this letter, anyone interested, or no??

WW, where did you get that email from exactly?

hey , my friend matt just joined and wants to talk about natalee... give him a real hard time... :twisted:

WW, feel free to discuss whatever you wish. However, note that you may be hit with some speculation :)

Yes lets discuss. What new facts do you think it brings?

1. Could be a total lie -- just covering his bohunkus. Just because Deepak writes it or says it, doesn't make it true.
2. If he'd written it on his computer, I'm sure authorities have it
3. If it originated in his e-mail on another computer, the authorities would have it
4. If there's no header from him anywhere on the e-mail, would think somebody's jerking your chain.
5. he's probably already told the LE this, but the person he sent it too many now fall under suspicion

absolut, do you find all this "where did you get it from" as funny as I do? :)

I'd like to know the end of this story....where is that part??? If only...

My thoughts on the letter:

-For someone who worked at an Internet cafe and supposedly spent so much time online, wouldn't Deepak know how to type better than that??  Would he even type a letter in English?

-I find it hard to believe that Natalee, by all accounts a shy girl, would be so aggressive with Jaron.  Of course, a lot of the account was what Deepak was told by Jaron and we know Jaron is a liar.

-Why would the email end there before the crucial part of the night??

-What is the origin of the email??

because it is not officially proof...much why this is also rumors....some people have posted hearsay as well as hopeful outcomes.
take it for what its worth !

Well, to play along, it shows that Joran lied to his friend Deepak, because he's on video hanging around Nat and her friends before the last day, according to many accounts including BHT's.  So he didn't "just meet her."

Oh, wait. You said new facts. ;)

Yeah far more important is what we learn from it. And so far unless I missed something this is what we know to be fact up to the leaving CNC which is actually validated by dash and others.