Lively Case Discussion #601 4/15 - 4/17/2007

[klaasend]

Lala's - the courts are looking at "wire tap" evidence.  I suppose if PVDS was talking to someone about it he could have known his phone was tapped and was lying.  How will we know?

Thanks Klass for the link.

By wire tapped you mean phone tapped?

Ane everyone is sure it's tapped information, not taped as in taped conversation?
And I guess none of us know when the date of the tapped/taped conversation took place, correct?

I can't find in the link you sent me much information on the ATM visit. Only that PVS was told they have tapped information on him. I really am interested on what evidence there is about the ATM stop.

Ado

Yes, the phone was tapped.  I haven't seen real evidence on the ATM transaction.  There may be some and I haven't seen it.

[San]

Oh no we sprong a leak.

[klaasend]

Oh no we sprong a leak.

Uh OH! Break out the pots and pans  

[klaasend]

Oh no we sprong a leak.

[San]

Oh no we sprong a leak.

Uh OH! Break out the pots and pans  

More like towels in my cabinet.

[Tamikosmom]

The following blog that was posted at Aruban Boycott site on April 10, 2007 pertains to the topic being discussed.

Janet

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/04/paulus-van-der-sloots-detainment.html

PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT'S DETAINMENT JUSTIFIED

[Tamikosmom]

From previous thread...Tamikosmom post:  My comments in red.

Benvinda de Souza - Family Attorney
Letter to Karen Jansen
June 23, 2005

<snipped>

Also understood by Claudio is that mr. Van Der Sloot said that he picked up Joran around 4:00 am close to McDonald’s.

<snipped>

What comes next is the questions that the family wanted answers to:

<snipped>

3) Why hasn’t Jug Twitty been interrogated He did give a statement, or did they even ask him for one?

<snipped>

Translation Credit - Arubagirl

At the time of the writing of Benvinda de Souza letter to Karin Janssen ... June 23, 2005 ... Jug Twitty had not been questioned.

Janet


Jug Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
September 28, 2005

TWITTY: I don’t know. I really don’t. I mean, I cannot understand why she can’t communicate with the family, I can’t understand why, you know, she doesn’t take and go back to the beginning and talk to the people that know the answers. There’s a lot of people there that first night. You know, why they didn’t take my statement until 33 days after?


Jug Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
August 11, 2005

TWITTY: I think, Joe, they need to go back to the beginning and question the people that were with me that night. We have already got conflicting stories now.

People have changed their statements from the very first night. Those people that were with me that night, had they taken our statements at least a week after it happened, we would have already had the answer. But when they take my statement 33 days later, and they take the other guys‘ statements that were with me and ladies that were with me, you know, like 19 days later, it‘s like they didn‘t want to find the truth.

[Patti]

From what I remember of the 4am pick-up is that Beth Holloway
could not reconcile why Paulus had said that he had picked Joran
up at McDonalds at 4am (the first night that she arrived and went
to his house in the wee-hours of the morning looking for Natalee)
and then changed the time to 11.  

It wasn't until the hearing pertaining to the false arrest that we
heard the he was arrested based on witnesses (the men that had
driven her to the Sloots) who said that they had heard him say that
he HAD, indeed, picked Joran up at 4am.  (I'm assuming he was
barefoot)  

Maybe they hadn't gotten their whole story down pat, earlier in
the day as they sat around the swimming pool and Paulus, the
mastermind in the COVER-up, MESSED up..... He He He  

[adoronron]

The following blog that was posted at Aruban Boycott site on April 10, 2007 pertains to the topic being discussed.

Janet

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/04/paulus-van-der-sloots-detainment.html

PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT'S DETAINMENT JUSTIFIED

Thanks Tamikosmom,

So, get this, at that site the translation says taped, not tapped. I wish I knew which it is. And I wish I knew when the tap/tape occured.
I know some at the morning scene disagree over 11 vs 4. I just want to know what was in the tap/tape, when it occured, and what evidence is there of an ATM visit and just when did the ATM visit occur.

Thanks Again - Ado

[adoronron]

From what I remember of the 4am pick-up is that Beth Holloway
could not reconcile why Paulus had said that he had picked Joran
up at McDonalds at 4am (the first night that she arrived and went
to his house in the wee-hours of the morning looking for Natalee)
and then changed the time to 11.  

It wasn't until the hearing pertaining to the false arrest that we
heard the he was arrested based on witnesses (the men that had
driven her to the Sloots) who said that they had heard him say that
he HAD, indeed, picked Joran up at 4am.  (I'm assuming he was
barefoot)  

Maybe they hadn't gotten their whole story down pat, earlier in

the day as they sat around the swimming pool and Paulus, the
mastermind in the COVER-up, MESSED up..... He He He  

Patti,
In your opinion it was a taped witness interview, not a phone tap?

Ado

[Patti]

Perhaps it is because of things like this, specifically, the denial of
restitution for false arrest, that I think that we may still see justice.

The 4am pick-up is pivotal, in this case, in my opinion.

It is also my opinion, that something bad had already happened and
Joran, shoeless, was seeking out the help of an adult.... like his good
mommy taught him to do.

"Daddy, Somthing Bad Happened"

"Don't worry, Son, I'll FIX it for you"

But, first you must tell me where she is....

(Silence)

If there is no body, there is no crime...

(Silence)

How can I fix it if you don't trust me?

(Silence)

It was not until June 10th that Joran finally told where Natalee could
be found....

and... she's been MISSING ever since.

(that's my take)

[klaasend]

The following blog that was posted at Aruban Boycott site on April 10, 2007 pertains to the topic being discussed.

Janet

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/2007/04/paulus-van-der-sloots-detainment.html

PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT'S DETAINMENT JUSTIFIED

Thanks Tamikosmom,

So, get this, at that site the translation says taped, not tapped. I wish I knew which it is. And I wish I knew when the tap/tape occured.
I know some at the morning scene disagree over 11 vs 4. I just want to know what was in the tap/tape, when it occured, and what evidence is there of an ATM visit and just when did the ATM visit occur.

Thanks Again - Ado

It was confirmed with Jossy by us that it was taped phone conversations, or wire tapped phone conversations.    The information from the front page of SM is directly from Jossy from what he could find out about the court hearing where PVDS lost his case.

[Patti]

From what I remember of the 4am pick-up is that Beth Holloway
could not reconcile why Paulus had said that he had picked Joran
up at McDonalds at 4am (the first night that she arrived and went
to his house in the wee-hours of the morning looking for Natalee)
and then changed the time to 11.  

It wasn't until the hearing pertaining to the false arrest that we
heard the he was arrested based on witnesses (the men that had
driven her to the Sloots) who said that they had heard him say that
he HAD, indeed, picked Joran up at 4am.  (I'm assuming he was
barefoot)  

Maybe they hadn't gotten their whole story down pat, earlier in

the day as they sat around the swimming pool and Paulus, the
mastermind in the COVER-up, MESSED up..... He He He  

Patti,
In your opinion it was a taped witness interview, not a phone tap?

Ado

Yes, I think it was a witness interview... whether it was taped, I couldn't
tell you for sure.

[klaasend]

Posted by RED on February 15, 2007:

There may have been a typo in today's FP article ... Sentencing of the Superior Court:

"With attention to the lying declarations that the son of Paulus, Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot (hereafter Joran) gave about his last contact on the 30th of May 2005 with the disappeared Natalee Holloway, the suspicion is not unreasonable that he made himself guilty of a conduct that can be qualified as murder, manslaughter, or kidnapping that resulted in death.

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a tapped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The tapped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway."

"He" in this instance means Paulus.

Yes. That's what the Superior Court of Justice dictaminated. There were taps on Paulus' phone and his incoming and outgoing conversations were tapped and listened to. We understand from the sentence that the Prosecution is in possession of all those taps made on the phone(s) of Paulus.

[Patti]

Posted by RED on February 15, 2007:

There may have been a typo in today's FP article ... Sentencing of the Superior Court:

"With attention to the lying declarations that the son of Paulus, Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot (hereafter Joran) gave about his last contact on the 30th of May 2005 with the disappeared Natalee Holloway, the suspicion is not unreasonable that he made himself guilty of a conduct that can be qualified as murder, manslaughter, or kidnapping that resulted in death.

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a tapped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The tapped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway."

"He" in this instance means Paulus.

Yes. That's what the Superior Court of Justice dictaminated. There were taps on Paulus' phone and his incoming and outgoing conversations were tapped and listened to. We understand from the sentence that the Prosecution is in possession of all those taps made on the phone(s) of Paulus.

So it was a taped interview....

But... He DIDN'T drop Natalee off at the Holiday Inn.

In my opinion, the only one left, was Joran:  

Barefoot, with a black eye!

[klaasend]

Patti - NO, not a taped interview.  It was wire tapped phone conversations.

[adoronron]

Patti - NO, not a taped interview.  It was wire tapped phone conversations.

Do we know the date of the taped tapped phone conversation? Was it the early morning of the 30th or later on in the case?

I'm still looking around trying to find where the ATM stop claim came from.

Ado

[klaasend]

Patti - NO, not a taped interview.  It was wire tapped phone conversations.

Do we know the date of the taped tapped phone conversation? Was it the early morning of the 30th or later on in the case?

I'm still looking around trying to find where the ATM stop claim came from.

Ado

I don't think we know the exact date of the wire tapped phone conversations.  The only ATM reference I've seen about PVDS is in the blogs and no article or PV backup that I can remember.  PVDS does talk about going to the bank twice on 5/30 (I believe) in one of his statements.  He does not mention the ATM.

[Patti]

Patti - NO, not a taped interview.  It was wire tapped phone conversations.

Okay.... my mistake.

But I thought that the man that had provided the investigators with
the information regarding the 4 am pick-up was one of the men that
had been with Beth the morning that she was driven to the Sloot's
house looking for Natalee... is that bogus, as well?

You know my memory isn't what it used to be... but I am sure that
Beth had written in her notebook that he had told her, in the presense
of her assistants, that he had picked "them" up at Mc Donalds and had
dropped Natalee off at the Holiday Inn at 4am; and that he later changed
his story to him picking them up at 11  (which in my opinion would also
have been a lie because Natalee wasn't with Joran at 11pm).

[klaasend]

Patti - NO, not a taped interview.  It was wire tapped phone conversations.

Okay.... my mistake.

But I thought that the man that had provided the investigators with
the information regarding the 4 am pick-up was one of the men that
had been with Beth the morning that she was driven to the Sloot's
house looking for Natalee... is that bogus, as well?

You know my memory isn't what it used to be... but I am sure that
Beth had written in her notebook that he had told her, in the presense
of her assistants, that he had picked "them" up at Mc Donalds and had
dropped Natalee off at the Holiday Inn at 4am; and that he later changed
his story to him picking them up at 11  (which in my opinion would also
have been a lie because Natalee wasn't with Joran at 11pm).

I'm not saying that is bogus, what I'm saying is that there are wiretaps on the VDS phone where Paulus is saying he picked up Natalee.  All I'm talking about is those wire taps.  The wire taps is a HUGE DEAL.  They had not become knowledge to any of us until Paulus court hearing in February 2007 where he lost his case.  Which implies that there may be more evidence in the way of wire taps that we are not aware of.