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Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 - 3/1/08
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Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 - 3/1/08 (Read 363280 times)
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Bladerunner
Monkey Junky Jr.
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Posts: 502
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #500 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:32:40 AM »
Quote from: San on March 01, 2008, 11:19:03 AM
Quote from: klaasend on March 01, 2008, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that. Then later, it was left off the end.
And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing. The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.
jmo
.
I'm wondering if more of the fabric was found than what we saw?
Good point Klaas.
I find it odd that the FBI would be testing the fabric found against a "sample" of fabric that was similar to what Natalee was wearing. Even if it was a match, the evidenciary value would be pretty low, legally speaking.
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private eye
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 1522
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #501 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:32:54 AM »
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 11:25:32 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:21:49 AM
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 11:19:21 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:17:14 AM
Someone commented on the size of the trap.
I think most are basing the size on the video of the divers doing the thumbs down instead of the still photos. At least that is what I am doing. The trap would have to be very large compared to the size of the divers whom I am assuming are of average height.
jmo
I dont understand the whole "size of the trap" argument.
Obviously fishermen raise and lower these traps on a regular basis, why is the size important?
There was a trap reportedly stolen from one of the Fishermen's Huts around that time. It would have had to be considerably smaller for as you say, for a single fisherman to raise and lower. This trap in the photos looks massive to me.
I don't know that it has any real significance other than this trap appears to be too large to have been the one Dompig reported as stolen.
.
I dont know if I buy that but thanks for explaining.
And I didnt say anything about a single fisherman either
Some of the traps require a trwler type boat with a hoist/crane apparatus to lift the trap, and that would rule out the use of even a large recreational watercraft
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jackb
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 1266
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #502 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:33:34 AM »
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 10:57:32 AM
Quote from: jackb on March 01, 2008, 10:41:16 AM
Quote from: Tot on March 01, 2008, 10:03:07 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 10:00:03 AM
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 09:56:30 AM
Quote from: Peaches on March 01, 2008, 09:50:52 AM
blah, I bailed early so I wasn't here. It appeared to be a misunderstanding over what we do here: discuss, speculate, examine, theorize, etc. I think we were told we wouldn't solve the case right here because we weren't on the ground looking or something like that.
I bailed early. I'm glad I did. I read thru it all when I got up this morning and it was confusing. I scrolled alot.
I read all that BS but I dont see what Robin posted so it would "get out"
The pictures of the fish trap, blah. Those were sent to the family and Robin posted them on another forum and then they were everywhere.
Pay attention!
Good Morning, All Other Monkeys!
.
Anna,the question Blah and I have is why they would intentionally be leaked out.We are paying attention but I guess we are just not in the loop as to knowing why.Sorry...
This is a decision Robin made and it was her's and Daves to make. If he did not help her make this, then that is between her and him. What does it matter anyway. For the love of Pete. I have not slept much and I am grouchy. Jack b
PS: Please do not that that mouth started on us this am. She is worse than waking up to jaws. Maybe she will go to BFN and roar for awhile. Jack b
Jack, it won't hurt my feelings one bit if you skip every post I ever make.
Nellie Olson
.
Purple you know you luv me, so I will have to look over you. I try to be kind to all little animals. jack b
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AZLady
Monkey All Star Jr.
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Posts: 5214
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #503 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:33:46 AM »
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 11:29:41 AM
Quote from: AZLady on March 01, 2008, 11:24:21 AM
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 11:19:21 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:17:14 AM
Someone commented on the size of the trap.
I think most are basing the size on the video of the divers doing the thumbs down instead of the still photos. At least that is what I am doing. The trap would have to be very large compared to the size of the divers whom I am assuming are of average height.
jmo
I dont understand the whole "size of the trap" argument.
Obviously fishermen raise and lower these traps on a regular basis, why is the size important?
Some felt the trap was not consistent with the size of the trap stolen from the Fisherman's Hut. That trap was about 4' x 5 1/2' x 17". The assumption is that if Natalee's body were in the trap, that it would be the stolen trap from Fisherman's Hut. Some have theorized that her body could have been placed in a different trap, not necessarily the stolen trap, so we would then not know the dimensions. Others have said that the underwater view distorts size.
Have any of these people produced a picture of the trap that was stolen? Where did we get the dimensions from?
And I agree that Natalee doesnt necessarily have to be in a trap that was reported stolen from the fishermans huts.
Now you're asking the hard questions. LOL I believe an interview on TV with a fisherman in Aruba is where we got the dimensions. I don't have it at my fingertips, but Tamikosmom or another who is supremely organized probably has it.
Logged
BRING NATALEE HOME
private eye
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 1522
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #504 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:33:57 AM »
Quote from: Bladerunner on March 01, 2008, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: San on March 01, 2008, 11:19:03 AM
Quote from: klaasend on March 01, 2008, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that. Then later, it was left off the end.
And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing. The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.
jmo
.
I'm wondering if more of the fabric was found than what we saw?
Good point Klaas.
I find it odd that the FBI would be testing the fabric found against a "sample" of fabric that was similar to what Natalee was wearing. Even if it was a match, the evidenciary value would be pretty low, legally speaking.
But the investigative value would be immense
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sharon
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 3216
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #505 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:35:03 AM »
Just to clarify the post---
"What did I miss -- what did a Mansur do?" was poster 'stef'. She inadvertantly inserted her comment in the middle of Bondia's post.
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"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has!" Margaret Mead
Anna
Monkey Mega Star
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Posts: 18149
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #506 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:36:42 AM »
Right, Private Eye,
I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.
Blah just doesn't understand.
Logged
PERSONA NON GRATA
All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts. I am doing the best I can with the information available.
Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary
http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
jackb
Monkey Junky
Offline
Posts: 1266
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #507 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:37:03 AM »
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:05:57 AM
Yes, many of us watched the fabric swatch turned loose into the wind in the original video of that. Then later, it was left off the end.
And for some reason, the cameraman seemed particularly focused on it as well as though he, too, recognized it as a part of Natalee's clothing. The camera seemed to actually follow the fabric swatch around.
jmo
.
(Trying to make you feel luved purp.) Anyway, some of theirs must have seen this cloth (Photogs)and got a Colombian necktie. j/b
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wreck
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 7781
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #508 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:37:14 AM »
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 11:29:41 AM
Quote from: AZLady on March 01, 2008, 11:24:21 AM
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 11:19:21 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:17:14 AM
Someone commented on the size of the trap.
I think most are basing the size on the video of the divers doing the thumbs down instead of the still photos. At least that is what I am doing. The trap would have to be very large compared to the size of the divers whom I am assuming are of average height.
jmo
I dont understand the whole "size of the trap" argument.
Obviously fishermen raise and lower these traps on a regular basis, why is the size important?
Some felt the trap was not consistent with the size of the trap stolen from the Fisherman's Hut. That trap was about 4' x 5 1/2' x 17". The assumption is that if Natalee's body were in the trap, that it would be the stolen trap from Fisherman's Hut. Some have theorized that her body could have been placed in a different trap, not necessarily the stolen trap, so we would then not know the dimensions. Others have said that the underwater view distorts size.
Have any of these people produced a picture of the trap that was stolen? Where did we get the dimensions from?
And I agree that Natalee doesnt necessarily have to be in a trap that was reported stolen from the fishermans huts.
One of my "wild theories" yesterday was that the trap WAS larger and that is why they are being mum about it. It suggests that Natalee wasn't disposed of the first night and a "bigger boat" was involved. This would indicate a "bigger" cover-up. The Persistence does not want to tip their hand just yet to the actual perps involved.
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blah
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 4043
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #509 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:37:19 AM »
Quote from: private eye on March 01, 2008, 11:32:54 AM
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 11:25:32 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:21:49 AM
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 11:19:21 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:17:14 AM
Someone commented on the size of the trap.
I think most are basing the size on the video of the divers doing the thumbs down instead of the still photos. At least that is what I am doing. The trap would have to be very large compared to the size of the divers whom I am assuming are of average height.
jmo
I dont understand the whole "size of the trap" argument.
Obviously fishermen raise and lower these traps on a regular basis, why is the size important?
There was a trap reportedly stolen from one of the Fishermen's Huts around that time. It would have had to be considerably smaller for as you say, for a single fisherman to raise and lower. This trap in the photos looks massive to me.
I don't know that it has any real significance other than this trap appears to be too large to have been the one Dompig reported as stolen.
.
I dont know if I buy that but thanks for explaining.
And I didnt say anything about a single fisherman either
Some of the traps require a trwler type boat with a hoist/crane apparatus to lift the trap, and that would rule out the use of even a large recreational watercraft
as far as I know, the type of boat required to raise a large trap redquiring a hoist/crane has never been ruled out as the vessel that took Natalee out to sea. The actual boat/ship whatever has never been identified as far as I know
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AZLady
Monkey All Star Jr.
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Posts: 5214
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #510 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:38:42 AM »
As I've mentioned before, I would not expect Natalee's remains to be found with any of her clothing. I'd be very surprised if this happened. So, the fact that the FBI did not match the fabric found to Natalee's clothing is inconclusive. It really means---NOTHING. The only think I can conclude from this is that fabric was found in the trap. That's it.
Logged
BRING NATALEE HOME
Blue Moon
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 3912
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #511 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:39:03 AM »
MOO, it is encouraging that A trap was found in the waters off Aruba. Even if it does not hold anything in it linking it to Natalee it DOES have a link to SOMEONE and once they find out who that someone is then it will be exposed that this is a common practice to put a person in a crab trap and dump them in the ocean to never be seen or heard from since. My guess is this would bolster their position to keep on searching. Now Aruba will not agree but who cares. Those Pimps got this idea (or the elders did) because it had been done before. Only this time they have been called out on it and Joran told the world how it was done. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb move my boy.
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If you ask the wrong question, of course, you get the wrong answer. We find in design it’s much more important and difficult to ask the right question. Once you do that, the right answer becomes obvious.<br />Quote: Amory Lovins
Anna
Monkey Mega Star
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Posts: 18149
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #512 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:39:12 AM »
Also doesn't that Dr. Andrew Hodges give the exact dimentions from an interview he evidently did with the fisherman with the missing trap?
Dimensions might well be on his website as well.
.
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PERSONA NON GRATA
All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts. I am doing the best I can with the information available.
Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary
http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
blah
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 4043
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #513 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:39:21 AM »
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:36:42 AM
Right, Private Eye,
I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.
Blah just doesn't understand.
I guess I dont understand. Are you saying the boat that was used has been identified and the size of this trap is too big to fit on the boat that was used?
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Peaches
Monkey Junky
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Posts: 3539
~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #514 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:40:06 AM »
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:36:42 AM
Right, Private Eye,
I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.
Blah just doesn't understand.
That is exactly it, Anna.
Logged
"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
bluwaters
Scared Monkey
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Posts: 131
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #515 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:40:12 AM »
is wise, IMHO
Logged
klaasend
Administrator
Monkey Mega Star
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Posts: 74276
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #516 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:40:28 AM »
Quote from: sharon on March 01, 2008, 11:35:03 AM
Just to clarify the post---
"What did I miss -- what did a Mansur do?" was poster 'stef'. She inadvertantly inserted her comment in the middle of Bondia's post.
Glad you have that screen capture
I remember that as if it were yesterday.
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AZLady
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 5214
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #517 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:41:29 AM »
Wreck, other statements support your theory. Specifically, Dompig's comments that her body was moved more than once. This implies that she was not dumped at sea on the night of May 30 or even May 31, but at a later time.
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BRING NATALEE HOME
klaasend
Administrator
Monkey Mega Star
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Posts: 74276
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #518 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:41:36 AM »
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:39:12 AM
Also doesn't that Dr. Andrew Hodges give the exact dimentions from an interview he evidently did with the fisherman with the missing trap?
Dimensions might well be on his website as well.
.
Yes Anna and we posted that a couple times yesterday. I don't have time to go back and look but it is on Hodges site.
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Anna
Monkey Mega Star
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Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
«
Reply #519 on:
March 01, 2008, 11:41:56 AM »
Quote from: blah on March 01, 2008, 11:39:21 AM
Quote from: Anna on March 01, 2008, 11:36:42 AM
Right, Private Eye,
I think the size of the trap goes more to the size of boat needed to maneuver it and the amount of planning and time required to engage such a vessel.
Blah just doesn't understand.
I guess I dont understand. Are you saying the boat that was used has been identified and the size of this trap is too big to fit on the boat that was used?
No, I am not saying anything except a little boat could be used for a little trap but a huge trap would require a much larger boat. The size of the trap would likely reflect the size of the boat used for placing it. It wouldn't fit on a really small boat.
.
Logged
PERSONA NON GRATA
All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts. I am doing the best I can with the information available.
Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary
http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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