Lisa Irwin #3 10/17/11 - 10/21/11

[cw618]

@ 4:43 mark taco and bill,talk about the boy/s hearing a clicking noise,no time on
when they heard that noise
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-dodge-questions-police/story?id=14760706

[fatcatlurker]

I can't recall...did LE state that K9's were not able to pick up any scent at all?  If not, I would think that she wouldn't have been walking with baby into woods.  Wouldn't it make sense that if there is no scent that either:

1. she is still within the area of the home, or
2. had been put directly in a car when taken?

I think this is what I recall also from the first time they brought the dogs in.  That there was no scent of Lisa leaving the house.  Seemed odd to me because I always thought babies had a lot of scent...

[islandmonkey]

I can't recall...did LE state that K9's were not able to pick up any scent at all?  If not, I would think that she wouldn't have been walking with baby into woods.  Wouldn't it make sense that if there is no scent that either:

1. she is still within the area of the home, or
2. had been put directly in a car when taken?

I think this is what I recall also from the first time they brought the dogs in.  That there was no scent of Lisa leaving the house.  Seemed odd to me because I always thought babies had a lot of scent...

That's what I recall too.......   

[wildmala]

I can't recall...did LE state that K9's were not able to pick up any scent at all?  If not, I would think that she wouldn't have been walking with baby into woods.  Wouldn't it make sense that if there is no scent that either:

1. she is still within the area of the home, or
2. had been put directly in a car when taken?

I think this is what I recall also from the first time they brought the dogs in.  That there was no scent of Lisa leaving the house.  Seemed odd to me because I always thought babies had a lot of scent...

That's what I recall too.......   

Also...I'm not very 'in the know' when it comes to the talents of K9's.  Do they specifically have to use a cadaver dog to find a body or will a search & rescue K9 be able to find the same thing?  And have they specifically used cadavar dogs in this case?

[islandmonkey]

---
Police say the last "unrestricted conversation" police had with Lisa Irwin's parents was Oct. 6. After that, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin sought legal counsel from a local lawyer.

That was before their latest attorney, New York defender Joe Tacopina, was hired by an anonymous benefactor and introduced to the public on Monday.
---

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15721746/...irwin-might-be


I could spit nails at the parents right now.......this is the way to obstruct an investigation (hoping that God forbid when she is found there is no evidence), and certainly NOT the way to help LE find your missing baby.

[yuknomenot]

FWIW... Manhattan, Junction City, and Riley County are about 2 hours west of KC on I-70.  Kansas State University is in Manhattan.  Junction City is also right there and it is a big military town because of Ft. Riley, home of the Big Red One.  I take this sighting with a grain of salt because there would be a whole lot of women and babies who would fit the descriptions there.  Also, Missouri license plates would not be that uncommon in that area.

[wildmala]

FWIW... Manhattan, Junction City, and Riley County are about 2 hours west of KC on I-70.  Kansas State University is in Manhattan.  Junction City is also right there and it is a big military town because of Ft. Riley, home of the Big Red One.  I take this sighting with a grain of salt because there would be a whole lot of women and babies who would fit the descriptions there.  Also, Missouri license plates would not be that uncommon in that area.

I agree.  I used to live in Manhattan and MO plates are common in this area.  Mostly with all the college students who attend both KSU and KU.

[klaasend]

How many times did the searchers and investigators find NOTHING when they were searching for Caylee?

[wildmala]

How many times did the searchers and investigators find NOTHING when they were searching for Caylee?

Good point.

Is LE still discouraging volunteers from helping at all with searches?  And if so...why???????

[Aurelia7]

Missing Babies: Steve and Marlene Aisenberg Offer Support to Lisa Irwin's Parents
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-steve-marlene-aisenberg-offer-support-lisa/story?id=14737456

 ::snipping2::

A baby girl goes down for a night's sleep. The next morning she's gone, her parents say. No unusual sounds had awoken anyone in the house. There is no damning evidence of break-in and abduction.  And the parents, initially given sympathy and support, are increasingly viewed with suspicion.

 ::snipping2::

Marlene Aisenberg, 49, said, "It's a very tough thing. We knew we didn't have anything to do with [Sabrina's disappearance]. And [Lisa's parents] know they didn't have anything to do with Lisa. The hardest thing in the world is having your child taken from you. The second-hardest is being accused of doing something to her."

 ::snipping2::

According to press reports, as the search for Sabrina and/or her abductor went on, the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office grew more suspicious of the Aisenbergs. It got a warrant to bug their home. State prosecutors chose not to charge the Aisenbergs, but in 1999 a federal indictment charged them with assorted crimes, the most serious being lying and conspiracy. The indictment relied on alleged recorded outbursts between the couple about Steve having killed Sabrina while high on cocaine. The Aisenbergs denied the charges.

Wow, I would have liked to have heard those tapes.  It doesn't appear that there is a thread here for Sabrina Aisenberg.  Cookie made mention of this case recently but a search brought up no results.  Perhaps I'm just not searching in the right place?

[Kermit]

I can't recall...did LE state that K9's were not able to pick up any scent at all?  If not, I would think that she wouldn't have been walking with baby into woods.  Wouldn't it make sense that if there is no scent that either:

1. she is still within the area of the home, or
2. had been put directly in a car when taken?

I think this is what I recall also from the first time they brought the dogs in.  That there was no scent of Lisa leaving the house.  Seemed odd to me because I always thought babies had a lot of scent...

That's what I recall too.......   

Also...I'm not very 'in the know' when it comes to the talents of K9's.  Do they specifically have to use a cadaver dog to find a body or will a search & rescue K9 be able to find the same thing?  And have they specifically used cadavar dogs in this case?

This is on of the dogs brought in to search
I have a family member who is a K-9 Police Officer and his dog is used only to take down perps. Different dogs are trained for different things.

[Kermit]

How many times did the searchers and investigators find NOTHING when they were searching for Caylee?

That is exactly my thoughts because of the heavy density behind that house they could have missed a small baby's body. The longer it goes without finding her the worse it is for forensics.

[Kermit]

[Kermit]

walking along the roads I am getting .42 mile(Mapquest), easy even if drunk - I hate to confess that I walk the dog some wkend evenings with a buzz and tasty beverage in hand very late greater distances with my super duper big mag light of course...

last sighting - either Oct 2nd picture release of party?  unless neighbor has claimed to see her that night and we are not privy to that info?

1.  Could Lisa have met her demise sometime between the departure of the neighbour  and the return of Jeremy from work and then an inebriated Debbie immediately took her baby's body and disposed of her in the woods?  I could be wrong but ... I don't think so.

2.  If it is revealed that the neighbor saw or heard Lisa on the evening of October 3rd ... I will digress from my speculation that something bad happened sometime in the day/s prior to Jeremy's departure from the home on October 3rd for his first workplace night shift.

 

Two things struck me as odd. The dad worked this night shift and he comes home at 4 am
doesn't that mean that the dad went to work at 8 PM, (assuming he works an 8 hour shift)
then wouldn't he have known the time the baby was put to bed and wouldn't the neighbor
have seen him while Deborah and neighbor were drinking?

[Kermit]

Jeremy Irwin work van

[Kermit]

Cyber crimes unit on scene - maybe there is something on the computer????

[Ono]

walking along the roads I am getting .42 mile(Mapquest), easy even if drunk - I hate to confess that I walk the dog some wkend evenings with a buzz and tasty beverage in hand very late greater distances with my super duper big mag light of course...

last sighting - either Oct 2nd picture release of party?  unless neighbor has claimed to see her that night and we are not privy to that info?

1.  Could Lisa have met her demise sometime between the departure of the neighbour  and the return of Jeremy from work and then an inebriated Debbie immediately took her baby's body and disposed of her in the woods?  I could be wrong but ... I don't think so.

2.  If it is revealed that the neighbor saw or heard Lisa on the evening of October 3rd ... I will digress from my speculation that something bad happened sometime in the day/s prior to Jeremy's departure from the home on October 3rd for his first workplace night shift.

 

Two things struck me as odd. The dad worked this night shift and he comes home at 4 am
doesn't that mean that the dad went to work at 8 PM, (assuming he works an 8 hour shift)
then wouldn't he have known the time the baby was put to bed and wouldn't the neighbor
have seen him while Deborah and neighbor were drinking?

Good question;   Also, it's entirely possible one of the other children in the house could have accidentially
hurt Baby Lisa - it is absurd to sequester these children from the authorities;  If only someone could hypnotize Deborah for clues.

[Ono]

Cyber crimes unit on scene - maybe there is something on the computer????

I am hoping so - it has been strangely quiet in regards to computers so far.

[fatcatlurker]

link for search/cadaver dog - some info anyway.  

http://www.cadaverdog.com/searches/TRAILING/trailing_lost_child.htm

All I have seen in MSM regarding dogs in this case; KCPD dogs and FBI dogs not the types of dogs used.

Just thru my own personal research I can tell you that SAR/Cadaver has alot of grey areas as to the training of dogs.  Such as use of pseudo scent vs real scent for training and the actual point in time a dog first begans to smell decomp.

[Jerseygirl345]

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lisa-irwin-tacopina-irwin-attorney-returns-to-new-york-fbi-continues-searches-20111018,0,6724522.story
Irwin Attorney Returns To New York, FBI Continues Searches
October 18, 2011 3:25 CDT

KANSAS CITY—

FBI agents were searching an area again on Tuesday with some dogs in a wooded area off North Brighton Avenue and 34th Terrace. They said they were not acting on any one specific tip.
The area was declared a "no-fly zone."  Crime scene vans and canine units were also at the scene.
Lisa Irwin's parents left their home with a woman in a government vehicle Tuesday, after the woman met with them for a couple hours.

That meeting happening about noon at the house on North Walrond where Lisa's parents have been staying.  They left without speaking with the media.
 ::snipping2::
The lawyer hired to represent baby Lisa's parents, Joe Tacopina, says he believes Lisa Irwin is still alive.  He says the parents are being cooperative, despite a Kansas City Police statement that the parents' "level of cooperation hasn't been what it needs to be do help find Lisa."

Tacopina returned to New York Monday night after his news conference with the parents.  He appeared on Fox and Friends Tuesday morning on the FOX News channel, along with consultant "Wild Bill" Stanton.
 ::snipping2::
Video at Link

who would the BBM be?  Gov't car?  FBI?  Any guesses?

Family services ?...