Natalee Case Discussion #848 9/25/2010 - 10/7/10

[Bearlyhere]

I don't think Beth gave Joran any time to think.  She shocked the sh*t out of him.

Hi San -

Joran is not really known as a "thinker", but more of a reactionary idiot. He always does things, actually EVERYTHING, he later regrets.

Attacking Beth wouldn't have been a thought process, but more reaction.

just my opinion.

If it makes him miserable, I'm all for it.

Hi Rob, I agree that he is not a thinker.  In the same instance she didn't even give him time to react as to what was going on because he never expected her to walk in.  She made him look like a jerk and when she left he had time to think about what "Beth" did to him and it made him go nuts.

Let's not forget Beth's words to him I don't have hate in my heart for you (something like that).  How is he going to react to someone saying that to him.  She could have went in there and said you MF where is my daughter.  Then I believe Joran would have reacted badly.  But what did Joran do?  He gave her his lawyers card.

San, you just put into words what I've felt and couldn't express! I'm not so good at it, but by being calm with Joran, Beth showed him that he's not able to have power over her anymore. His hatred of her eats at him, as does his blaming of her for hard things in his life. She won a victory over Joran by doing exactly what she did and by doing it exactly the way she did.

I agree with the mod who agrees with the mod..trimod agreement.  Hate has power over the hater, not the hated.  Beth told him in words he would understand (hate is the story of his life) that he held no power over her and she had the balls in the relationship,  (Well, we have all seen the pictures of Joran naked, need I say more?)

[Bearlyhere]

I don't think Beth gave Joran any time to think.  She shocked the sh*t out of him.

Hi San -

Joran is not really known as a "thinker", but more of a reactionary idiot. He always does things, actually EVERYTHING, he later regrets.

Attacking Beth wouldn't have been a thought process, but more reaction.

just my opinion.

If it makes him miserable, I'm all for it.

Hi Rob, I agree that he is not a thinker.  In the same instance she didn't even give him time to react as to what was going on because he never expected her to walk in.  She made him look like a jerk and when she left he had time to think about what "Beth" did to him and it made him go nuts.

Let's not forget Beth's words to him I don't have hate in my heart for you (something like that).  How is he going to react to someone saying that to him.  She could have went in there and said you MF where is my daughter.  Then I believe Joran would have reacted badly.  But what did Joran do?  He gave her his lawyers card.

San, you just put into words what I've felt and couldn't express! I'm not so good at it, but by being calm with Joran, Beth showed him that he's not able to have power over her anymore. His hatred of her eats at him, as does his blaming of her for hard things in his life. She won a victory over Joran by doing exactly what she did and by doing it exactly the way she did.

You expressed it quite well!!!

Thanks for reminding me, Wreck!  CBB, you are gifted with words and always have been.

Hope you are well, Wreckster!

[carpe noctem]

Somewhere in Texas, there is a horse walking around in desperate need of a chiropractor.


Come on Red, give that ol' board butt a whack!

Why are you holdin' out on me, bro?

[wreck]

Somewhere in Texas, there is a horse walking around in desperate need of a chiropractor.


Come on Red, give that ol' board butt a whack!

Why are you holdin' out on me, bro?

 

[jjayinthemorning]

I watched NG last night, don't know how much of this is true or how much of it is " sexed " up or made up by the NE, but I enjoyed it regardless.
.

Well we know that Beth did get into Castro Castro. And she did face Joran.
The rest will always be speculation.
My version plays like an action thriller. She is contacted by Peruvian unmentionable high power, high dollar Stephany family representative. Beth meets with psychologist and psychaitrists to discuss Joran's mindset and reactions. She needs the closure. Peruvian representative needs a reaction from Joran. A deal is made. The prison is paid appropriately and the meeting is something like Silence of the Lambs when Jodi confesses that the cry of the slaughtered lambs haunts her. Only it's Joran who hears the cries of Natalie and Stephany in his head when he sees Beth. Now what is imprinted in Joran's mind is the vision of a live, and living person who will constantly haunt him. Ohhhhh... the mindf*ck! Joran is rendered helpless. He thrashes out in disapproval at a guard. His paranoia level increases 10 fold. Now his world closes in and even food, shelter and clothing are not safe.
This operation was brilliant.

The victims all received their justice from Beth's visit. She wins because now her non-profit will soar. Peru wins because the revenue is generating. Joran rots, Joran festers, Joran slowly goes insane, all alone in a hellhole.

What happens next in the cycle of paranoia is he will start to hallucinate. Not only from the poisons that do get into his food from the tropical jungle where they are abundant, but from the internal bug that Beth has planted. Add lack of sleep and general ill health and Joran's life is filled with physical suffering which is what prison is really all about.

While Joran clings to hope, the time that it takes for Peru's court system to make decision adds to the slow deterioation of Joran's health. He is being broken down so slowly that he isn't even realizing his body is failing. Soon he will have no control over his bladder and the meds will only dissolve his organ function. Not only is the humidity of Lima devastating to foreigners, Joran is going to experience sever lung problems when summer reaches its peak soon.

A little history about Lima. It was built as a sea entry mountain-locked port and not meant to be inhabited because of the danger of the environment, which served as a boundary against piracy back in the day. There is a constant level of humidity that causes corrosion at an alarming rate. Those of permanent residence have distinct permanent medical problems directly from the environment.

So, yeah, sex it up, let's all celebrate Joran's grim existence while it lasts. All justice should be this sweet.

[Kat_Gram]

You have a vivid imagination. My scenario  is that one of the other prisoners will rob him.
For something mundane like his expensive shoes or jacket.
He will be found dead in the am some day. No one will be charged.

[2NJSons_Mom]

You have a vivid imagination. My scenario  is that one of the other prisoners will rob him.
For something mundane like his expensive shoes or jacket.
He will be found dead in the am some day. No one will be charged.

Aruba can hold a seminar on how to make a homicide = suicide.   Just another option.   

[Tamikosmom]

What's the hold up?  Is it a good sign or ...?

Janet

++++++

Van der Sloot still waiting on appeal to throw out confession
Last Update: 10/02 10:32 am

Birmingham, Al  (WIAT)  Even as tabloid rumors continue to swirl, Joran van der Sloot is still waiting for the justice system in Peru to resolve his latest appeal of his confession in the murder of 21 year old student Stephany Flores. 

Her corpse was found in van der Sloot's Lima hotel room five years to the day of the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway on a graduation trip to Aruba.  She was last seen with van der Sloot.

The Dutchman confessed to killing Flores because she found material about Natalee on his laptop.  But he promptly appealed to have that confession thrown out citing coercion and a variety of legal issues.  The trial judge rejected that appeal.  A three judge panel split 2-1 in favor of throwing out the confession but under Peruvian law it takes three judges, so a fourth appeals judge has been reviewing the case for weeks with, thus far, no decision.

And even that decision may not bring any real progress to the case.  In the glacial pace of Peruvian justice, if the fourth judge votes against throwing out the confession, a fifth judge will be appointed to produce the third vote necessary to resolve the case.

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Van-der-Sloot-still-waiting-on-appeal-to-throw/g_IM8curMES6_hskxM5Y0w.cspx

[San]

What's the hold up?  Is it a good sign or ...?

Janet

++++++

Van der Sloot still waiting on appeal to throw out confession
Last Update: 10/02 10:32 am

Birmingham, Al  (WIAT)  Even as tabloid rumors continue to swirl, Joran van der Sloot is still waiting for the justice system in Peru to resolve his latest appeal of his confession in the murder of 21 year old student Stephany Flores. 

Her corpse was found in van der Sloot's Lima hotel room five years to the day of the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway on a graduation trip to Aruba.  She was last seen with van der Sloot.

The Dutchman confessed to killing Flores because she found material about Natalee on his laptop.  But he promptly appealed to have that confession thrown out citing coercion and a variety of legal issues.  The trial judge rejected that appeal.  A three judge panel split 2-1 in favor of throwing out the confession but under Peruvian law it takes three judges, so a fourth appeals judge has been reviewing the case for weeks with, thus far, no decision.

And even that decision may not bring any real progress to the case.  In the glacial pace of Peruvian justice, if the fourth judge votes against throwing out the confession, a fifth judge will be appointed to produce the third vote necessary to resolve the case.

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Van-der-Sloot-still-waiting-on-appeal-to-throw/g_IM8curMES6_hskxM5Y0w.cspx

No I don't think that it's a good sign.  This makes me very nervous.  He confessed no doubt about it.  I have a feeling that the other judge will make it a tie and the 5th will come in and break the tie in Joran's favor.  I don't trust anyone.

[Lifesong]

Hello dear monkey friends!

I've been gone a couple of weeks and just last night returned only to learn about Tim Miller's comments. 

       

I read the transcript last night (thanks Texasmom!), but I just now finished listening to the clip that Klaas posted.

Tim Miller was not slurring his words as we've heard on more than one occasion.  He sounded clear, concise, and so far out of line that its hard to believe this actually happened.

So, sorry Tim...no alcohol excuse for you on this one.  I think its personal, I think this is the result of the influence of evil, petty, bitter people (one female in particular - whose jealousy seems to know no bounds!)  Keep in mind, Tim said he had spoken with Dave's wife several times that very day.  He gave her a veritable bash-fest to lift her spirits.

I'm listening to the podcast of Dana's show now, while still reading the last thread.  I have a lot of pages to read to get caught up, so I'll stop commenting for now.

Except to say...it makes no sense to me that Tim Miller continues to ask for donations for Texas Equusearch and lament the fact that he cannot help more families, yet he supposedly turned down millions of dollars in a settlement over injustices and incompetence regarding his own daughter's remains. 

Perhaps, Tim, if you had taken the settlement monies and created a foundation yourself, the interest alone could have supported you and supplemented TE so you could stop losing valuable time doing maintenance and construction...and you would be able to help more families.

How's that feel?  I just judged your behavior as it relates to the murder of your daughter.  Shame on me, right?  Well, before I heard your Beth-bashing on Steph Watts, I would have defended your choice as being only your business and no one else's.  Its a damn shame you don't have the professionalism to do the same for Beth.

What comes around, goes around.  That's all.

[Magnolia]

What's the hold up?  Is it a good sign or ...?

Janet

++++++

Van der Sloot still waiting on appeal to throw out confession
Last Update: 10/02 10:32 am

Birmingham, Al  (WIAT)  Even as tabloid rumors continue to swirl, Joran van der Sloot is still waiting for the justice system in Peru to resolve his latest appeal of his confession in the murder of 21 year old student Stephany Flores. 

Her corpse was found in van der Sloot's Lima hotel room five years to the day of the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway on a graduation trip to Aruba.  She was last seen with van der Sloot.

The Dutchman confessed to killing Flores because she found material about Natalee on his laptop.  But he promptly appealed to have that confession thrown out citing coercion and a variety of legal issues.  The trial judge rejected that appeal.  A three judge panel split 2-1 in favor of throwing out the confession but under Peruvian law it takes three judges, so a fourth appeals judge has been reviewing the case for weeks with, thus far, no decision.

And even that decision may not bring any real progress to the case.  In the glacial pace of Peruvian justice, if the fourth judge votes against throwing out the confession, a fifth judge will be appointed to produce the third vote necessary to resolve the case.

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localnews/story/Van-der-Sloot-still-waiting-on-appeal-to-throw/g_IM8curMES6_hskxM5Y0w.cspx

No I don't think that it's a good sign.  This makes me very nervous.  He confessed no doubt about it.  I have a feeling that the other judge will make it a tie and the 5th will come in and break the tie in Joran's favor.  I don't trust anyone.

We have learned from experience to not trust anyone.   They don't need the confession.
Wreck has reminded us many times that they have enough physical evidence to convict Joran.

[wreck]

What's the hold up?  Is it a good sign or ...?

Janet

++++++

Van der Sloot still waiting on appeal to throw out confession
Last Update: 10/02 10:32 am

   He's not in Aruba.

[Magnolia]

I watched NG last night, don't know how much of this is true or how much of it is " sexed " up or made up by the NE, but I enjoyed it regardless.
.

Well we know that Beth did get into Castro Castro. And she did face Joran.
The rest will always be speculation.
My version plays like an action thriller. She is contacted by Peruvian unmentionable high power, high dollar Stephany family representative. Beth meets with psychologist and psychaitrists to discuss Joran's mindset and reactions. She needs the closure. Peruvian representative needs a reaction from Joran. A deal is made. The prison is paid appropriately and the meeting is something like Silence of the Lambs when Jodi confesses that the cry of the slaughtered lambs haunts her. Only it's Joran who hears the cries of Natalie and Stephany in his head when he sees Beth. Now what is imprinted in Joran's mind is the vision of a live, and living person who will constantly haunt him. Ohhhhh... the mindf*ck! Joran is rendered helpless. He thrashes out in disapproval at a guard. His paranoia level increases 10 fold. Now his world closes in and even food, shelter and clothing are not safe.
This operation was brilliant.

The victims all received their justice from Beth's visit. She wins because now her non-profit will soar. Peru wins because the revenue is generating. Joran rots, Joran festers, Joran slowly goes insane, all alone in a hellhole.

What happens next in the cycle of paranoia is he will start to hallucinate. Not only from the poisons that do get into his food from the tropical jungle where they are abundant, but from the internal bug that Beth has planted. Add lack of sleep and general ill health and Joran's life is filled with physical suffering which is what prison is really all about.

While Joran clings to hope, the time that it takes for Peru's court system to make decision adds to the slow deterioation of Joran's health. He is being broken down so slowly that he isn't even realizing his body is failing. Soon he will have no control over his bladder and the meds will only dissolve his organ function. Not only is the humidity of Lima devastating to foreigners, Joran is going to experience sever lung problems when summer reaches its peak soon.

A little history about Lima. It was built as a sea entry mountain-locked port and not meant to be inhabited because of the danger of the environment, which served as a boundary against piracy back in the day. There is a constant level of humidity that causes corrosion at an alarming rate. Those of permanent residence have distinct permanent medical problems directly from the environment.

So, yeah, sex it up, let's all celebrate Joran's grim existence while it lasts. All justice should be this sweet.

 

[klaasend]

http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2010/10/03/local_news/doc4ca7e949e9488906803494.txt

Victim to victor
A mother’s message
By Wendy Miller
wmiller@paragoulddailypress.com
Published: Sunday, October 3, 2010 12:12 PM CDT

Beth Holloway, the mother of Natalee Holloway, who went missing during a senior trip in Aruba, shared her personal story of hope at the AMMC Spirit of Women event Saturday evening.

“Hope always comes,” Holloway said. “Embrace it, put action behind it and make it real.”

As Holloway told the story of going to a foreign country and looking for her teenage daughter and the efforts she has made to ensure other families won’t have to share her pain, she continuously referred to the various phases of hope she experienced as she made her journey from “victim to victor.”

“Natalee could be your loved one and you could be me,” she told the audience, emphasizing how her experience could happen to anyone.

As her search continued, Holloway said her “spirit” was hopeful when she received a lead that could answer her questions about her daughter’s disappearance, and then said her spirit sank to the lowest point possible when she found out her daughter was not going to be found.

Holloway said her tribute to Natalee is to continue to inform others about the dangers of “letting your guard down.”

“We don’t teach our children to be careful because we live in fear,” she said. “We teach them because we do not live in a safe world. She [Natalee] didn’t see it coming; she had a false sense of security.”

Holloway went on to talk about the importance of developing a “full circle” safety plan when traveling as well as the MayDay360 program, a program she helped to develop to address personal safety for anyone traveling to another country.

Holloway also spoke about the Natalee Holloway Resource Center she helped to develop to provide education and help to anyone who has a missing loved one.

After addressing the crowd, Holloway was presented with a painting created by Gail Ford of Rector.

Lois Rooney, AMMC Women’s Council president, also presented Mary Esther Herget with the first “Spirit of Women” award in honor of the more than 900 hours she has dedicated to the hospital among many other contributions she continues to make.

“I love this town and I love this hospital,” Herget said. “It keeps me going.”

[Lifesong]

 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8546.msg1234698#msg1234698


Lex Holdings?  In the same building as the Kalpoe's attorneys?

WOW!

[Magnolia]

 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8546.msg1234698#msg1234698


Lex Holdings?  In the same building as the Kalpoe's attorneys?

WOW!

Mildred Schwengel[sp]  is the person of record on Lex Holding, she is a member of the same law firm
as Koch, at that address.  Lex Holdings was established just before the Persistence set sail.

http://www.hbnlaw.com/aruba/corporate_pro/firmmember.php?firm_member_id=15

[Lifesong]

 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8546.msg1234698#msg1234698


Lex Holdings?  In the same building as the Kalpoe's attorneys?

WOW!

Mildred Schwengel[sp]  is the person of record on Lex Holding, she is a member of the same law firm
as Koch, at that address.  Lex Holdings was established just before the Persistence set sail.

http://www.hbnlaw.com/aruba/corporate_pro/firmmember.php?firm_member_id=15

Thanks, Mags!! 

Did I also see Antonio Carlo's name somewhere associated with Milly Schwengel as well?   

I caught the Nov. 2007 date - will add that to the timeline.  (I have a lot of work to do on that now!)

My head is swimming with all this new info all at once, would give anything if I'd been able to be here over the last couple of weeks to absorb it all as it happened.  I finally finished the last thread and am starting on this one now.

Hope you're well, I've missed you and all the monkeys!  How great was it to hear Texasmom on Dana's show?  And Can and Anna too! 
 

[Magnolia]

 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8546.msg1234698#msg1234698


Lex Holdings?  In the same building as the Kalpoe's attorneys?

WOW!

Mildred Schwengel[sp]  is the person of record on Lex Holding, she is a member of the same law firm
as Koch, at that address.  Lex Holdings was established just before the Persistence set sail.

http://www.hbnlaw.com/aruba/corporate_pro/firmmember.php?firm_member_id=15

Thanks, Mags!! 

Did I also see Antonio Carlo's name somewhere associated with Milly Schwengel as well?   

I caught the Nov. 2007 date - will add that to the timeline.  (I have a lot of work to do on that now!)

My head is swimming with all this new info all at once, would give anything if I'd been able to be here over the last couple of weeks to absorb it all as it happened.  I finally finished the last thread and am starting on this one now.

Hope you're well, I've missed you and all the monkeys!  How great was it to hear Texasmom on Dana's show?  And Can and Anna too! 
 

We have really missed you too, Lifesong.  So glad to see you back.

I can only imagine the shock of reading all of this at once.  The Tim Miller bit was enough to
set my head a spinning.  It was such a disappointment.

[Rob]

 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8546.msg1234698#msg1234698


Lex Holdings?  In the same building as the Kalpoe's attorneys?

WOW!

Mildred Schwengel[sp]  is the person of record on Lex Holding, she is a member of the same law firm as Koch, at that address.  Lex Holdings was established just before the Persistence set sail.

http://www.hbnlaw.com/aruba/corporate_pro/firmmember.php?firm_member_id=15

Legally LEX - TOO much of a coincidence for me.

 

[Magnolia]

 

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8546.msg1234698#msg1234698


Lex Holdings?  In the same building as the Kalpoe's attorneys?

WOW!

Mildred Schwengel[sp]  is the person of record on Lex Holding, she is a member of the same law firm as Koch, at that address.  Lex Holdings was established just before the Persistence set sail.

http://www.hbnlaw.com/aruba/corporate_pro/firmmember.php?firm_member_id=15

Legally LEX - TOO much of a coincidence for me.

 

Of course it is, Rob.   Silvetti had his business plans in place before he ever left for Aruba.
He didn't go to search for Natalee.  He had a different agenda.  He couldn't let a chance
discovery interrupt his plans.

Now he is Tim Miller's fair haired boy....go figure.