Natalee Case Discussion #803 2/25/09 - 3/1/09

[Nut44x4]

TRUTH & JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!

[Lifesong]

I don't think anybody told Tim that there was DNA.  I heard him say it... and I think he
mis-spoke.  I think he meant to say remains.

That's a very good possibility Magnolia.

Was he referring to the fabric, while thinking remains.........and it came out DNA?

Definitely a possibility.

Maybe he meant the fabric did not match Natalee's blouse?  I don't know...


"Tim:  The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us."

[Lifesong]

I don't think anybody told Tim that there was DNA.  I heard him say it... and I think he
mis-spoke.  I think he meant to say remains.

That's a very good possibility Magnolia.

Was he referring to the fabric, while thinking remains.........and it came out DNA?

Definitely a possibility.

Maybe he meant the fabric did not match Natalee's blouse?  I don't know...


"Tim:  The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us."

So sorry, Magnolia - I was grabbing the quote and missed your post at the end of the thread..

Yes!  DNA had not been mentioned before.  It was obvious confusion on Tim's part.
Confusion that is understandable.
At that point all that had been talked about was the fabric, I think.

[Magnolia]

Lifesong  you got here first and didn't even cheat or cheer. 

[Lifesong]

Lifesong  you got here first and didn't even cheat or cheer. 

    

Dang it!

I'm actually sitting with a conference call on the speakerphone pretending to pay attention to the mindless droning on and on of irrelevant issues by folks with an inflated sense of self-importance....

Uh..don't tell them I said that!
 


       

I got here first!
First First First First First First First First!

Take that Mr. Robots!   

[caesu]

NRC newspaper has a background article about Rudy Croes:

http://www.nrc.nl/achtergrond/article2152321.ece/De_vermeende_macht_van_familie_Croes

the also put the VNO report online in original format:
http://www.nrc.nl/multimedia/archive/00205/week_3_1__205580a.pdf

[Lifesong]

Jen,

Just to clarify...

02/28/2008
Article by Cynthia Cisneros, Houston ABC affiliate, quotes Louis J. Schaefer:
•   “I've dedicated a million dollars, I've gone way above that," said Louis Schafer of Underwater Expeditions.
•   "I feel like it's time to ask for help from the American people that want to see this case solved." 
•   "By Friday, we will have surveyed the entire 50-square mile off Aruba," Schafer said.
•   "We have identified at least 60 of the targets. we have about 150 more targets to inspect."  "So we have completely mapped the ocean floor, we know every object that's there, we know every object that could be a container holding her in the sea,” he said.

Tim Trahan is quoted in the same article:
"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."


Is this the quote Tim Trahan actually said on 12/29? 

[johan555]

[jen3560]

Jen,

Just to clarify...

02/28/2008
Article by Cynthia Cisneros, Houston ABC affiliate, quotes Louis J. Schaefer:
•   “I've dedicated a million dollars, I've gone way above that," said Louis Schafer of Underwater Expeditions.
•   "I feel like it's time to ask for help from the American people that want to see this case solved." 
•   "By Friday, we will have surveyed the entire 50-square mile off Aruba," Schafer said.
•   "We have identified at least 60 of the targets. we have about 150 more targets to inspect."  "So we have completely mapped the ocean floor, we know every object that's there, we know every object that could be a container holding her in the sea,” he said.

Tim Trahan is quoted in the same article:
"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."


Is this the quote Tim Trahan actually said on 12/29? 

I'm not sure now.......

Search For Natalee HollowayKPLC-TV, LA - 18 hours agoTrahan and Lake Charles native Louis Schaefer Jr. head up Underwater Expeditions around the world. ...
lcpirate.com/2007/12/24/

 Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. “We can’t stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we’ve located it, we just need to get to it.”

[bastibro]

NRC newspaper has a background article about Rudy Croes:

http://www.nrc.nl/achtergrond/article2152321.ece/De_vermeende_macht_van_familie_Croes

the also put the VNO report online in original format:
http://www.nrc.nl/multimedia/archive/00205/week_3_1__205580a.pdf

Good article in NRC.

The Aruban OM is in the spotlight since the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway in May 2005. The OM was then known for its Aruban culture. A closed bunker, where the daughter of former pg Theresa Croes-Fernandes Pedra acted difficult as spokesman.

After the arrival of Nico Jörg from the Netherlands, as successor to Croes-Fernandes Pedra, Dutch prosecutors headed for a more Dutch course.

That was in Aruba not always well received. Upon his departure in June last year, Jörg spoke of a "dismal political climate" in Aruba.

[Tamikosmom]

I contend that a furthering of the coverup which has prevented justice from prevailing for an American citizen was planned in a meeting on board the Persistence a short time prior to the December 30th dive.

I suspect after the Arubans were made aware of the ROV images of December 29, 2007 ... the ROV images that Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller were so sure revealed a trap/cage that contained contents which were case related and ... immediate damage control was where it was at.

I speculate that a short time prior to the second dive on December 30, 2007 ... at a meeting on board the Persistence between the Arubans and John Silvetti ... justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closurer for her family took a back seat and ... for an incentive ... John Silvetti became a participant in "the finale to the great Aruban coverup".

Considering Tim Trahan dove with the Aruban dive team on December 30, 2007 ... I contend that this American also became a player in the betrayal.  In otherwords ... the "thumbs down" was a given.

If the truth was were it was at ... logic would dictates Tim Trahan would let the Skate pass ... wait a minute for the silt to settle and ... observe as well as take photos of the contents.

Instead ... according to Kyle Kingman ... it the Aruban divers who remained and reported that the trap/cage contained nothing case related.

IMO

Janet

_____


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment.

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle:   This is certainly NOT John Silvetti. I do not know this man. He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.


+++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #743 on: March 18, 2008, 04:30:41 PM »

It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers.  It was a royal mess.  I took a lot of heat for telling Tim Miller anything about the trap that may have prompted him to making the calls to the family.  In my defence, I specifically told Tim not to tell anyone about the trap until the contents are analysed.  He couldn't wait.  He was very emotional, hopeful, and confident.  It was a crushing time for all. Most of all- for Tim Miller, Dave, and Beth.  This was Dec 30th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366324#msg366324

[Lifesong]

Part 1 of the Revised Timeline is up here.


Klaas - Is it possible to delete all of the other versions in the thread?  I'll have Part 2 - Revised posted in the next hour or two.  Thanks!

[Lifesong]

Jen,

Just to clarify...

02/28/2008
Article by Cynthia Cisneros, Houston ABC affiliate, quotes Louis J. Schaefer:
•   “I've dedicated a million dollars, I've gone way above that," said Louis Schafer of Underwater Expeditions.
•   "I feel like it's time to ask for help from the American people that want to see this case solved." 
•   "By Friday, we will have surveyed the entire 50-square mile off Aruba," Schafer said.
•   "We have identified at least 60 of the targets. we have about 150 more targets to inspect."  "So we have completely mapped the ocean floor, we know every object that's there, we know every object that could be a container holding her in the sea,” he said.

Tim Trahan is quoted in the same article:
"And we all feel, I'm speaking from everybody on the team, that she's in one of the targets we have not looked at yet," Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. "We can't stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we've located it, we just need to get to it."


Is this the quote Tim Trahan actually said on 12/29? 

I'm not sure now.......

Search For Natalee HollowayKPLC-TV, LA - 18 hours agoTrahan and Lake Charles native Louis Schaefer Jr. head up Underwater Expeditions around the world. ...
lcpirate.com/2007/12/24/

 Tim Trahan of Underwater Expeditions said. “We can’t stop. I go to sleep at night thinking we’ve located it, we just need to get to it.”

Ok, I found that article here:
http://www.kplctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7537588&nav=0nqx

SWLA Natives Search For Natalee Holloway

Posted: Dec 24, 2007 12:05 AM CST
Updated: Jan 11, 2008 04:34 PM CST

Reported By: Lee Peck

Prosecutors in the Natalee Holloway case said they will reopen the case "if new serious evidence were to be found." Searching for that evidence is a world renowned underwater search team, which includes two Southwest Louisiana natives. We spoke to one of them by satellite phone Sunday afternoon off the coast of Aruba.

"We're looking for a needle in a haystack, that's a big challenge in and of itself," said Tim Trahan. 

Lake Arthur native Tim Trahan is talking about his latest search. Trahan and Lake Charles native Louis Schaefer Jr. head up Underwater Expeditions around the world. Their latest assignment: the hunt for Natalee Holloway off the coast of Aruba.

"It's taken a lot of turns and twists and we finally got the boat off from New Iberia and got it down to Aruba and we started the operation here," said Trahan.

Leaving New Iberia November 26th the R/V Persistence arrived in Aruba December 15th. On board are several experts in the case, including Tim Miller with Texas Equusearch. Acting on a tip, their search for the Alabama teen has taken them to the west point of the island.

"Tim had really felt strongly that the body was put in a crab trap or some kind of metal container and dropped into the ocean," said Trahan. 

Since their arrival, they've been mapping the bottom of the ocean floor with special sonar and high-tech computers for points of interest that could be metal objects. Their scans have taken them from 60 to 950 feet below Aruba's waters.

"In searching for points of interest, we are making a grid, and when we get done with the whole grid we're going to utilize a remote controlled vehicle which will be going down to inspect each target of interest that we have through the whole grid," explained Trahan.

Sacrificing time away from family, the crew will work around the clock through Christmas and New Years in hopes of finding Natalee and bringing closure to her family... at no charge.

"Natalee's family were speechless for a little while. It was a lot of tears from both sides, you know it's hard to meet a family that's lost a child and a lot of times we don't know what to say, but the only thing we could say is we are going to go over there and do the best we can and try to bring their daughter home," said Trahan. "They are very appreciative they call every day and thank us, thank us. It just feels good to do something you feel right about."

Other companies donating their services include J.D. Silvetti, Seatronics, Offshore Innovative Solutions, Pro Log Incorporated, Wilkens Weather Technologies and Agiosat.

A crew from Dateline NBC is also on board documenting the entire operation. Trahan says they don't know how long they'll be out there. Click here to read a daily blog updating their search.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Part 1 of the Revised Timeline is up here.


Klaas - Is it possible to delete all of the other versions in the thread?  I'll have Part 2 - Revised posted in the next hour or two.  Thanks!

Just acknowledging this.  Will let Klaas decide.   

[bastibro]

LOL Johan, welcome back 

http://forum.fok.nl/topic/1257826/6/25

[johan555]

Hee bastibro everything ok ?   

[Lifesong]

I contend that a furthering of the coverup which has prevented justice from prevailing for an American citizen was planned in a meeting on board the Persistence a short time prior to the December 30th dive.

I suspect after the Arubans were made aware of the ROV images of December 29, 2007 ... the ROV images that Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller were so sure revealed a trap/cage that contained contents which were case related and ... immediate damage control was where it was at.

I speculate that a short time prior to the second dive on December 30, 2007 ... at a meeting on board the Persistence between the Arubans and John Silvetti ... justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closurer for her family took a back seat and ... for an incentive ... John Silvetti became a participant in "the finale to the great Aruban coverup".

Considering Tim Trahan dove with the Aruban dive team on December 30, 2007 ... I contend that this American also became a player in the betrayal.  In otherwords ... the "thumbs down" was a given.

If the truth was were it was at ... logic would dictates Tim Trahan would let the Skate pass ... wait a minute for the silt to settle and ... observe as well as take photos of the contents.

Instead ... according to Kyle Kingman ... it the Aruban divers who remained and reported that the trap/cage contained nothing case related.

IMO

Janet

_____


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment.

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle:   This is certainly NOT John Silvetti. I do not know this man. He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.


+++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #743 on: March 18, 2008, 04:30:41 PM »

It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers.  It was a royal mess.  I took a lot of heat for telling Tim Miller anything about the trap that may have prompted him to making the calls to the family.  In my defence, I specifically told Tim not to tell anyone about the trap until the contents are analysed.  He couldn't wait.  He was very emotional, hopeful, and confident.  It was a crushing time for all. Most of all- for Tim Miller, Dave, and Beth.  This was Dec 30th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366324#msg366324

Good Morning, Janet!

I think definately think you're onto something with the meeting onboard the Persistence. 

[Keepthefaith]

I contend that a furthering of the coverup which has prevented justice from prevailing for an American citizen was planned in a meeting on board the Persistence a short time prior to the December 30th dive.

I suspect after the Arubans were made aware of the ROV images of December 29, 2007 ... the ROV images that Kyle Kingman and Tim Miller were so sure revealed a trap/cage that contained contents which were case related and ... immediate damage control was where it was at.

I speculate that a short time prior to the second dive on December 30, 2007 ... at a meeting on board the Persistence between the Arubans and John Silvetti ... justice for Natalee Holloway and ... closurer for her family took a back seat and ... for an incentive ... John Silvetti became a participant in "the finale to the great Aruban coverup".

Considering Tim Trahan dove with the Aruban dive team on December 30, 2007 ... I contend that this American also became a player in the betrayal.  In otherwords ... the "thumbs down" was a given.

If the truth was were it was at ... logic would dictates Tim Trahan would let the Skate pass ... wait a minute for the silt to settle and ... observe as well as take photos of the contents.

Instead ... according to Kyle Kingman ... it the Aruban divers who remained and reported that the trap/cage contained nothing case related.

IMO

Janet

_____


Tim Miller
On the Record w/ Greta
February 27, 2008

MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle: I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment.

Kyle: I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.  John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me

Kyle: Mr. Red shirt came on the Persistence along with Dolf, Mos, et al for the meeting on the 30th."

Kyle:   This is certainly NOT John Silvetti. I do not know this man. He was with the Arubans who came on board for the Dec-30th meeting.


+++++++

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #743 on: March 18, 2008, 04:30:41 PM »

It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers.  It was a royal mess.  I took a lot of heat for telling Tim Miller anything about the trap that may have prompted him to making the calls to the family.  In my defence, I specifically told Tim not to tell anyone about the trap until the contents are analysed.  He couldn't wait.  He was very emotional, hopeful, and confident.  It was a crushing time for all. Most of all- for Tim Miller, Dave, and Beth.  This was Dec 30th.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366324#msg366324

Good Morning, Janet!

I think definately think you're onto something with the meeting onboard the Persistence. 

I,very much agree!There was quite a show of force when Mos,Richardson,Comemencia,as well as the other Arubans,Kyle won't identify,came on board.Why so many of the key players,for a cage/trap,that had nothing in it!LOGIC DICTATES...............Inquiring minds want to know.....

[Keepthefaith]

I will say.That last thread was a very pleasant one!Distractions minimized...

[2NJSons_Mom]

KTF,

Just wanted to post for Hotping and her PO Box research that I looked for a connection between Lisa A Anderson and William J Anderson (attorney for Superior Offshore mentioned in one of your posts last thread).  I came up short and had to give it up for a while.  There may be no connection, whatsoever, but the surname (which is common) stood out for me at the time.