Caylee Marie Anthony #92 1/15/09 - 1/17/09

[Blink34]

Doesnt Casey still have the rights over Caylee's remains?  Could she be holding up the burial?

I believe she signed over rights to Jose

ITA, a complete POA I am sure, thus, his ability to get paid from a girl without so much as an ATM card. Well, other than her daughter of course.

Bitter, party of one, my table's ready..

[KarmaRoundUp]

Good saturday morning Monkey's.It's -3 degrees here in Detroit  

LuckyCharms wrote:

I do not believe that Casey could have had any disciplinary action to change her course of behavior. Sociopaths are about 4% of the population while psychopaths are only about 1%, the number is increasingly smaller when you talk about homicidal behavior. Sociopaths live among us, they work with us, they go to church with us, they cut our hair, they dispense our medication, they prepare our taxes, they work on our root canals and they handle our finances. Many of them will never murder anyone or anything. These are the types of sociopaths that are highlighed in The Sociopath Next Door, by Martha Stout. We marry them, divorce them, fight for custody with them, and all the while, we might never know it. People also call these people psychopaths but they really are two different types of disorders.

If G & C had been more aware of Casey's behavoirs while she was a child they could have prevented her future behavior to a certain extent. However, parents tend to justify and think of it as a passing phase. We've heard Cindy confess that she believed Casey was a sociopath. It's not a term we use loosely because a child has stressed us out or had days of behavior where they acted up. Cindy has known for awhile that Casey has 'something' that is not like all the other kids. Rather than acknowledge it, she did her best to hide it, even going as far as covering up any misdoings by Casey. As we see now, at age 22, Cindy is still defending Casey.

Casey could not be taught responsibility or empathy or guilt or love. If you can imagine being born without nerve endings. You couldn't feel a fluffy dog, a soft pillow or the heat if you got to close to a stove. That would be strange for us, right?  Casey was born without nerve endings (feelings/emotions/conscience). It is why she can't form any connections to anyone. That is why she lives her life in a fantasy rather than reality. She sees other people working, having fun, enjoying life but she can't. She cannot experience great job or the worst heartache. But she has to look like she is all of those things in order to be accepted. Now that we can unravel her lies we can glimpse into the mind of a very disturbed person.

If you go back and read some of her texts to Amy, she is talking about a breakup around May 3. She is over it pretty quickly as by the 4th, she is already talking about going out to meet more boys, as she calls them. This is why she can loose one relationship and on to the next in minutes. This is why she saw Caylee as disposable. She was upset, probably out of control over the fight she and Cindy had on the 15th. She killed Caylee in a rage. Now it was just a matter of hiding her so that she didn't have to be reminded of the burden. When she sees G & C on Aug 14th, she doesn't understand why Cindy is so upset, after all, she's done the best she can. This is why she didn't do anything to find Caylee after she was released on her 1st bond. In her mind, it was over, finished, time to move on. She can't make the connection between everyone else missing Caylee and her disposing of something that was in her way. So, long story short, there was nothing anyone could do.

I like how you explained this LuckyCharms.Does anyone know if Casey is diagnosed as a sociopath,would that work in her favor at trial(if it goes to trial)?Would that diagnoses get her life in a mental hospital?
Also I want to thank Blink for the very eye opening front page post....great job!

[PookyBear]

Good morning to you early morning monkeys

Good morning Muffy, you too, Trimm.

Hey Pooky.
Did you see Greta last night? I can't watch it and wondered if there was anything interesting.

Trimm:  I did watch it and one thing I found interesting is that Greta kept talking with Dr. Baden and Mark Furman about the fact that all of Caylee's bones were contained in the bag.  That was not my understanding.  I understood that the crime scene investigators and FBI crawled on their hands and knees for 8 days trying to find a complete skeleton.  She made the point that they would have been scattered and because they were not the body must have been moved.  Have I missed something or is she wrong?

[sharlock]

According to Greta and Conway, the police were at the Anthony's home today and Conway claims it did NOT have to do with the murder investigation.

Hey monkeys.Do any of you know anything about this? 

No I don't sorry, he was very tightlipped about it though!
ETA:Conway says it wasn't related to the murder investigation. Conway also said that he doesn't represent anyone in this case except G&C.

[sharon]

Sharon,I read that last night.
I do think they should close that sale.disgusting.

I agree. Disgusting.

And so blatant 

This should have stopped once the bones were identified (actually, way way way before that)

imo

[PookyBear]

I like how you explained this LuckyCharms.Does anyone know if Casey is diagnosed as a sociopath,would that work in her favor at trial(if it goes to trial)?Would that diagnoses get her life in a mental hospital?
Also I want to thank Blink for the very eye opening front page post....great job!

I personally think that if Baez intends to seek some sort of mental defect defense, he needs to get him some experts in there.  They need to spend time with her and administer tests.  She, as far as we know, has never had mental health treatment.  This would be a hard defense to take without a lot of time from a doctor spending time with her.  I understood that a sociopath understood right from wrong but just lacked the ability to care.  I don't think this would work as a defense.  JMO.

[Today]

http://www.myorangeclerk.com

1/15/2009 0900 MANUAL - HEARING ROOM 6-D ON THE SIXTH FLOOR

1/15/2009 A NOTICE OF PROVISION OF SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY

[OriginalKat]

Good morning to you early morning monkeys

Good morning Muffy, you too, Trimm.

Hey Pooky.
Did you see Greta last night? I can't watch it and wondered if there was anything interesting.

Trimm:  I did watch it and one thing I found interesting is that Greta kept talking with Dr. Baden and Mark Furman about the fact that all of Caylee's bones were contained in the bag.  That was not my understanding.  I understood that the crime scene investigators and FBI crawled on their hands and knees for 8 days trying to find a complete skeleton.  She made the point that they would have been scattered and because they were not the body must have been moved.  Have I missed something or is she wrong?

http://www.wjhg.com/national/headlines/36162709.html

It was always reported that her bones were scattered from what I have seen. You have to remember....Greta, Furman, Geraldo, etc are all on the Anthony Train(wreck). I just don't put alot they say as true but as trying to help defense.

I guess when it goes to trial we will her exactly which is true.

[sharlock]

Good morning to you early morning monkeys

Good morning Muffy, you too, Trimm.

Hey Pooky.
Did you see Greta last night? I can't watch it and wondered if there was anything interesting.

Trimm:  I did watch it and one thing I found interesting is that Greta kept talking with Dr. Baden and Mark Furman about the fact that all of Caylee's bones were contained in the bag.  That was not my understanding.  I understood that the crime scene investigators and FBI crawled on their hands and knees for 8 days trying to find a complete skeleton.  She made the point that they would have been scattered and because they were not the body must have been moved.  Have I missed something or is she wrong?

I think she is wrong. Greta seems to be wrong about a few things to do with this cas and I think she just hasn't done her homework. She also seemed to not realise that a second autopsy had been done and I noted that she wasn't corrected either. I think maybe some of the larger bones were intact in the bag but we know they were on there hands and knees sorting through the dirt for those bones and have even admitted that they were unable to recover the whole skeleton. She is full of chit imo.

[OriginalKat]

According to Greta and Conway, the police were at the Anthony's home today and Conway claims it did NOT have to do with the murder investigation.

Hey monkeys.Do any of you know anything about this? 

No I don't sorry, he was very tightlipped about it though!
ETA:Conway says it wasn't related to the murder investigation. Conway also said that he doesn't represent anyone in this case except G&C.

Actions speak louder than words on him. Why was he sitting at the defense table in court last week part of the time? Wasn't this a defense motion (Baez) hearing?

[Fuzzball]

Snipped

LUCKYCHARMSPRINCESS: I really appreciate your input; but I respectfully disagree with your statement: "People also call these people psychopaths but they really are two different types of disorders"
According to Robert Hare Phd, author of "Without Conscience" , creator of the "Psychopathy Checklist" & the world's leading authority on psychopathy:

Many researchers, clinicians, and writers use the terms psychopath and sociopath interchangeably. Sometimes the term sociopathy is used because it is less likely than is psychopathy to be confused with psychoticism or insanity. In many cases the choice of term reflects the user's views on the origins and determinents of the clinical syndrome or disorder described in this book. Thus, some clinicians and researchers--as well as most sociologists and criminologists--who believe that the syndrome is forged entirely by social forces and early experiences prefer the term sociopath, whereas those--including this writer--who feel that psychological, biological, and genetic factors also contribute to development of the syndrome generally use the term psychopath. The same individual therefore could be diagnosed as a sociopath by one expert and as a psychopath by another.

He does take issue with interchanging the term anti-social personality disorder with both of these believing that anti-social does not cover all aspects of psychopathy. Anti-social defined by; a cluster of criminal and anti-social behaviors & psychopathy defined by; a cluster of both personality traits and socially deviant behaviors(as defined in DSM IV, the psychology bible.

CONDUCT DISORDER is the term used to define individuals, with this syndrome, who are under age 18.


Got company coming, will try to be back later. If not, nite all! 


KUDOS TO BLINK: MONKEYS RULE!!!!!!!!!   

Hi Monken,

Dr. Hare is a well renouned leader in the defining and application of psychopathic personalities, you are certainly right about that and I do not disagree there. I'm only pointing out that while there are characteristics that are the very similiar, the manifestations of these characteristics are very different. I know you might disagree with me there too but Dr. Hare comes from a background in psychophysiology, I do not.

A lot of people have called Casey, Pathological Liar, Dissociative Personality, Borderline Personality, Asperger's Syndrome, Narcississtic Personality and on and on. Without a full psychological exam, no one will know for sure until history is disclosed. Recently psychologists have been calling sociopathic "anti-social personality disorder" by the DSM IV, and many psychs have said it is too broad of a definition. As you know, the more we learn about brain chemistry and the more people there are to study with these disorders, the better chance we will have to categorize them more succintly. The world of psychology and psychiatry is opinionated because the human mind has so many facets and so many facets yet to discover.

Prior to what we knew about her......I think people saw Casey as 'normal looking' (in her photos with Caylee) and have a hard time wrapping their head around how such an evil mind can come in such a normal looking package.

I included the site for this info in case anyone would like to read the entire article. Everyone will interpret Casey's behavior based on how they see her fit into the categories below. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1013712/sociopath_vs_psychopath_the_differences.html

Characteristics of a sociopath are as followed:
 
1. Sociopaths are very charming.
2. Sociopaths can be extremely manipulative and will try to con you whenever possible.
3. Sociopaths feel that they are entitled to everything.
4. Sociopaths will lie continuously to get what they want. They can even sometimes manipulate a lie detector.
5. Sociopaths have no remorse, shame or guilt.
6. Sociopaths will show love and happiness only when it serves their purpose. None of the feelings are genuine.
7. Sociopaths have no room for love in their life.
8. Sociopaths need to have excitement in their lives or live on the edge.
9. Sociopaths have lack of empathy hen their victims suffer pain that they have caused.
10. Sociopaths believe that they are all mightier than tho, there is no concern on how their behavior impacts others.
11. Sociopaths usually have a long history of juvenile delinquency as well as behavior problems.
12. Sociopaths will never take blame for anything they have done to anyone no matter if it is family or friend.
13. Sociopaths have many sexual partners and tend to act out many sexual acts.
14. Sociopaths rarely stay in one place for a long time (home/work).
15. Sociopaths will change themselves if they know it will keep them from being found out.

Characteristics of a psychopath are as followed:

1. Psychopaths use superficial charm to lure their victims.
2. Psychopaths are extremely self-centered.
3. Psychopaths must always do something to keep themselves from boredom.
4. Psychopaths are very deceptive and tend to lie continuously.
5. Psychopaths show no remorse of guilt towards their victims.
6. Psychopaths are very predatory and usually will live off other people.
7. Psychopaths have many sexual partners in their lifetime.
8. Psychopaths are very impulsive with their lifestyle.
9. Psychopaths are always blaming other people for their actions.
10. Psychopaths never have a realistic view of their lives. (king of the world or from another planet)
11. Psychopaths always want psychological gratification in sexual and criminal activities.
12. Psychopaths tend to try suicide, rarely succeeding.

Enjoy your company!! 

Casey is obviously a psychopath. It upsets me a lot to hear people confuse her with a "Borderline" personality, because for one thing "Borderline" is a kind of meaningless diagnosis--it's just an immature person with suicidal tendencies.  And Asperger's people are just bad at reading body language or understanding what kinds of things another person wants to listen to--the opposite of manipulative--they couldn't manipulate someone to save their lives.

[PookyBear]

Good morning to you early morning monkeys

Good morning Muffy, you too, Trimm.

Hey Pooky.
Did you see Greta last night? I can't watch it and wondered if there was anything interesting.

Trimm:  I did watch it and one thing I found interesting is that Greta kept talking with Dr. Baden and Mark Furman about the fact that all of Caylee's bones were contained in the bag.  That was not my understanding.  I understood that the crime scene investigators and FBI crawled on their hands and knees for 8 days trying to find a complete skeleton.  She made the point that they would have been scattered and because they were not the body must have been moved.  Have I missed something or is she wrong?

http://www.wjhg.com/national/headlines/36162709.html

It was always reported that her bones were scattered from what I have seen. You have to remember....Greta, Furman, Geraldo, etc are all on the Anthony Train(wreck). I just don't put alot they say as true but as trying to help defense.

I guess when it goes to trial we will her exactly which is true.

Yes, thanks OriginalKat -- I sat there amazed she would say that when it is completely false.  But, better yet, Geraldo, last week said something completely false regarding Kronk and he should be sued for it.  Why Fox keeps him on is beyond me.  How many people watch his show?  Well, I am off for some grocery shopping.  All, please keep warm and have a great day.

[Blink34]

now the first part the Zenida on Hopespring is one of Kio Marie's relatives. There is a whole thread on WS that I found after I did all that dang research. The parallels are really astonishing or at least I thought so but in the end it seems like Kio didn't see KC in the yr so go figure

Yes, they went to HS together, I think there are 2 more HS friends of KC in that "hood", I dont find it unusual that Kio would have family there. Based on her interview, she was quite close with a few of the neighbors. For me, all roads "Zenaida" lead to the Sawgrass and the citations on 5/24/08. Your never getting around the fact a real ZG visited there, and her cell numbered linked back, kids and car matched, and Casey is searching her CPU for a Zenaida and clicks on a myspace on 6/12/08.

She is feverishly searching the whitepages for a ZG profile in the wee hours of 7/16, so we know she had some "knowledge" of where some are listed. SHe takes LE to 2 places IIRC, saying that was where she dropped Caylee off and then finally to Sawgrass, where the rest is history.. That tells me either she or someone she knew there had knowledge and she went there as a last resort, imo..

[Blink34]

I'll try the last part one more time. KC took LE to a complex and pointed to a condo and said it was where Zani's  relative lived but the person that really lived in that place was one of Kio Marie's relative's

I think that Kio Marie and Annie are going to be Crucial  when this all comes to Trial = If Kio Marie's testimony can be used ..since she has been printed in every gossip rag ..

Des- I agree, I think Kio is important to connect some dots, and now since Caylee was found where she was.. But I think the SA will lay low on her because Baez is going to come out swinging on her for the reasons you mentioned.

I completely agree on Annie. Remember early in the first jail visits Cindy and Casey spoke of her lovingly?
Casey is bonded out and Annie's hat gets shredded and thrown in the trash... Why?

[Sassycat]

Good morning to you early morning monkeys

Good morning Muffy, you too, Trimm.

Hey Pooky.
Did you see Greta last night? I can't watch it and wondered if there was anything interesting.

Trimm:  I did watch it and one thing I found interesting is that Greta kept talking with Dr. Baden and Mark Furman about the fact that all of Caylee's bones were contained in the bag.  That was not my understanding.  I understood that the crime scene investigators and FBI crawled on their hands and knees for 8 days trying to find a complete skeleton.  She made the point that they would have been scattered and because they were not the body must have been moved.  Have I missed something or is she wrong?

Yep.  I watched it, also.   I wanted to throw something at the television.   I guess that is what Baez is telling everyone on Fox to say?    I swear it seems like Fox is working for the Defense of Casey!       

By the way - Morning everyone!   

[trimmonthelake]

Pooky.Sorry I just saw your reply(reading last nights posts).I remember it like you and Originalkat.Is Greata crazy or rooting for the Anthonys. 

[sharlock]

I mentioned this on an earlier thread but I think it is very interesting. While watching the vid of Cindy denying she intntionally gave the wrong brush to LE she mentions how the defense wanted dna so Casey and Cindy found hairbands etc and the brush but they also STRIPPED THE BED and gave that to the defense team too. Now I know LE have linked the crime back to the house already but there was mention of some bedding being fund at the crime scene (unconfirmed) and the police sure took a lot of bedding when they did their search that would tend to back this up. As far as I know the defense team do not have to offer this to LE and this is the only time Cindy mentions it while she is rambling for a long time about all sorts of stuff so I doubt that LE are even aware that the defense team has it. It would make sense that Casey would want it out of the house if she knew it could link her to the crime so she gave it to Baez and I think LE need to go get it. If they had already done so there would have been a motion to get it and there hasn't been.
What do you think?

[Fuzzball]

Two personality disorders that I have thought about.  If they have been discussed skip.

Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive emotionality and attention-seeking, including an excessive need for approval and inappropriate seductiveness, usually beginning in early adulthood.

The essential feature of histrionic personality disorder is an excessive pattern of emotionality and attention-seeking behavior. These individuals are lively, dramatic, enthusiastic, and flirtatious. They may be inappropriately sexually provocative, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and be easily influenced by others.

 Overview
People with this disorder are usually able to function at a high level and can be successful socially and professionally. People with histrionic personality disorder usually have good social skills, but they tend to use these skills to manipulate other people and become the center of attention. [1] Furthermore, histrionic personality disorder may affect a person's social or romantic relationships or their ability to cope with losses or failures. People with this disorder may seek treatment for depression when romantic relationships end, although this is by no means a feature exclusive to this disorder. They often fail to see their own personal situation realistically, instead tending to dramatize and exaggerate their difficulties. They usually blame others for failures or disappointments. They may go through frequent job changes, as they become easily bored and All of these factors may lead to greater risk of developing depression.

Borderline Personality Disorder - Symptoms
A person with borderline personality disorder often has unstable relationships, low self-esteem, and problems with impulsive behavior, all of which begin by early adulthood.2A common feature of this disorder is fear of being left alone (abandoned), even if the threat of being abandoned is not real. This fear may lead to frantic attempts to hold on to those around you and may cause you to become too dependent on others. Sometimes you may react to the fear of being abandoned by rejecting others first before they can reject you. This erratic behavior can lead to troubled relationships in every area of your life.

People who are diagnosed with borderline personality disorder have at least five of the following symptoms. They may:4

Make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Have a pattern of difficult relationships caused by alternating between extremes of intense admiration and hatred of others.
Have an unstable self-image or be unsure of his or her own identity.
Act impulsively in ways that are self-damaging, such as extravagant spending, frequent and unprotected sex with many partners, substance abuse, binge eating, or reckless driving.
Have recurring suicidal thoughts, make repeated suicide attempts, or cause self-injury through mutilation, such as cutting or burning himself or herself.
Have frequent emotional overreactions or intense mood swings, including feeling depressed, irritable, or anxious. These mood swings usually only last a few hours at a time. In rare cases, they may last a day or two. Have long-term feelings of emptiness.
Have inappropriate, fierce anger or problems controlling anger. The person may often display temper tantrums or get into physical fights.
Have temporary episodes of feeling suspicious of others without reason (paranoia) or losing a sense of reality.
Not everyone who has five or more of these symptoms is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. For a person to be diagnosed with any personality disorder, the symptoms must be severe and must go on long enough to cause significant emotional distress or problems functioning in relationships or at work.4

You may have temporary episodes of psychosis (paranoia and a loss of a sense of reality) with borderline personality disorder, especially when you are going through a personal crisis. This psychosis usually does not last very long. But if it continues, your doctor may consider another condition, such as schizophrenia.

Symptoms of borderline personality disorder are not caused by another medical condition or by medicines, and they are not a result of long-term substance abuse problems. Borderline personality disorder may be confused with other conditions with similar symptoms, such as other personality disorders, including antisocial personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder.

None of this sounds remotely like Casey. She doesn't have low self-esteem. Cindy might be histrionic or borderline, definitely. But Casey's main problem is that she lacks empathy, has a huge sense of entitlement, and has a cruel streak. I don't think she's rejecting others before they can reject her. She uses people then dumps them when they're no longer useful.

[Today]

I couldn't help myself.  Some information on rattlesnakes.  There are three main types found in Florida, Dusky Pygmy Rattlesnake, Eastern Diamond-backed Rattlesnake and Timber Rattlesnake. 

An interesting piece on eating habits.

SCAVENGING BY SNAKES: AN EXAMINATION OF THE LITERATURE

Although it is widely known that most species of snakes readily accept carrion in captivity, the notion of scavenging by wild snakes historically has been rejected or ignored. Herein, we review the literature describing instances of scavenging by snakes and consider the implications of carrion use on their ecology. Thirty-nine published accounts yielded 50 observations of scavenging by snakes (43 from field observations and seven from laboratory studies). Thirty-five species from five families were represented, but pitvipers and piscivorous snakes were represented more frequently than other groups. Scavenged material varied widely and included rodents, birds, fish, frogs, and snakes. Olfaction appears to be the overriding sensory modality used for carrion detection. Some species may use scavenging as a deliberate feeding strategy that supplements their regular modes of prey acquisition. Additional knowledge of the scavenging behavior of snakes should provide new insights into the fundamentals of the ecology of snakes.

So it looks like snakes do eat carrion.  Whether the types of rattlers in Florida do is not clear from the information I found.

[Blink34]

I thought that was very interesting and I missed it on NG last night.  I think it is a possible defense strategy -- Caylee died because of (whatever might be found) and mother panicked, blah, blah.   

Remember Casey had a seizure (personally I think it was drug or alcohol related). I think they are trying to find a genetic disease that causes seizures to say Caylee died of a seizure and Casey has the same disorder. blah, blah.

[/quote]

Very sharp insight Today, ITA.

Although I am not aware what affliction causes one to wrap duct tape around your child's head covering both breathing avenues.
Yeesh that guy already.