Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 - 3/25/08

[texasmom]

Wonder if the C. Vandenberg is kin to Martin Van den burg now living in Thiland.  He was on the BOD of some relevant organizations up until about the NH time.  It has been awhile since I fooled with that.  How I got wind of this man is he kept posting his room pics on the I-net in Tickle web site where some of the perps were put down as friends (i.e)  Depak Kalpoe as King of Bling, maybe friends of friends.Anyway I got to enhancing his room photos and lo and behold (for effect) there was what appeared to be a statue of a girl bound and tied to what looked like a ship mast or something with NH clothing on.  I kept finding out stuff on this Martin Van den Berg or burg, whatever and it seems he is into young teens, computers and was keeping a running diary of sorts on the case.  Very pro Vandersloot.  I have not been, as I said messing with this in months.  Also, this picture, is very strange after being enhanced, the ones of his room.  There are various computer and picture taking equipment, etc. in it.  He is in his 50s or so.  Got married, he says here while back to a very young woman.  Has a collection of serial killer books in his room picture and had pictures of Jug and Beth on tv.  He is a strange bird and is connected somehow to all of this.  I may have given the pic to Klass, if not I will if she wants it to post.  I am unable to figure out why he had this.  It was almost unseen on the floor as a statue and a doll house, but the fabric caught my eye and I started resizing and enhancing it.   Jackb  (now you all know why I am nuts.)   

So you noticed him after Natalee was missing, do I understand correctly?  Just curious because I would be more suspicious of him if he'd had them listed as friends before.  How much could you tell about the girl, could you see her face, or was it just the clothes that connected her to Natalee.  I've seen some pretty "out there" things on the internet since this case started.

[texasmom]

Polis a gara grupo di ladron cu a horta mas di 100 mil florin        
Thursday, 20 March 2008 


Diahuebs anochi banda di un 9:10 pm polis a gara un grupo di 4 persona cu tabata hortando tur rond di Aruba. E grupo aki tabata proffesional di horta cartera di hende y nan tabata liher den horta. Nan a horta mas di 10 mil den Price Smart di cliente pero camara a wak nan y tambe den Certified nan a horta di cartera di hende unda cu camara tambe a gara nan.  Nan tabata traha den team y polis a cuminsa sigi nan pa 2 dia caba. Nan a muda Diaranson anochi banda di 11or na un motel den caya betico croes den camber 10 y camber 11. Nan tabata move den e auto V-2059. Awe nan a haci e fout di horta un joyeria den caya grandi unda cu polis a siginan te na e motel. Polis a warda pa nan drenta nan camber y asina gara nan. Tur a wordo deteni y tambe tur loke nan a horta a wordo confisca cu ta mas di 100 mil florin. Tambe e auto nan a bai cune pa asina investiga tur cos. Nan ta venezolano, peruano y tambe mexicano. Te hasta nan a horta un mama di un Polis un suma grandi y tambe ruman di un periodista conoci. Click read more pa mira e antisocialnan aki.
 

Through translator:

police owing to grab are of thief cu owing to steal more of 100 thousand guilder
thursday, 20 march 2008

diahuebs night near of one 9:10 pm police owing to grab one are of 4 person cu was hortando all rond of aruba. the are here was proffesional of steal cartera of person y they was liher in steal. they owing to steal more of 10 thousand in price smart of cliente but camara owing to look at they y also in certified they owing to steal of cartera of person where cu camara also owing to grab they. they was work in team y police owing to cuminsa sigi they for 2 day end. they owing to muda diaranson night near of 11or at one motel in caya betico croes in camber 10 y camber 11. they was actuate in the car v-2059. today they owing to haci the aberration of steal one joyeria in caya big where cu police owing to siginan till at the motel. police owing to keep for they enter they camber y so grab they. all owing to wordo deteni y also all thing they owing to steal owing to wordo confisca cu is more of 100 thousand guilder. also the car they owing to go cune for so investiga all cos. they're venezolano, peruvian y also mexicano. till even they owing to steal one mother of one police one suma big y also brother of one journalist conoci. click read more for see the antisocialnan here. come across

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/4250/8/

Looks interesting.....but other than somebody stealing a whole lotta money and maybe a camera, I can't make heads or tails of this one.  Do we think they were on camera stealing and then tried to steal the camera too?
 

[klaasend]

Texasmom - I really have no idea 

[jackb]

Wonder if the C. Vandenberg is kin to Martin Van den burg now living in Thiland.  He was on the BOD of some relevant organizations up until about the NH time.  It has been awhile since I fooled with that.  How I got wind of this man is he kept posting his room pics on the I-net in Tickle web site where some of the perps were put down as friends (i.e)  Depak Kalpoe as King of Bling, maybe friends of friends.Anyway I got to enhancing his room photos and lo and behold (for effect) there was what appeared to be a statue of a girl bound and tied to what looked like a ship mast or something with NH clothing on.  I kept finding out stuff on this Martin Van den Berg or burg, whatever and it seems he is into young teens, computers and was keeping a running diary of sorts on the case.  Very pro Vandersloot.  I have not been, as I said messing with this in months.  Also, this picture, is very strange after being enhanced, the ones of his room.  There are various computer and picture taking equipment, etc. in it.  He is in his 50s or so.  Got married, he says here while back to a very young woman.  Has a collection of serial killer books in his room picture and had pictures of Jug and Beth on tv.  He is a strange bird and is connected somehow to all of this.  I may have given the pic to Klass, if not I will if she wants it to post.  I am unable to figure out why he had this.  It was almost unseen on the floor as a statue and a doll house, but the fabric caught my eye and I started resizing and enhancing it.   Jackb  (now you all know why I am nuts.)   

So you noticed him after Natalee was missing, do I understand correctly?  Just curious because I would be more suspicious of him if he'd had them listed as friends before.  How much could you tell about the girl, could you see her face, or was it just the clothes that connected her to Natalee.  I've seen some pretty "out there" things on the internet since this case started.

I never got on his web site until NH was missing so I would not know how long the Kalpoe pics were there.  I was following something else when I happened across his web site and used a saying he was saying on someone elses' pic to get on.  It has been a while.  He kept saying he likes them "unfeathered" or some sort of rubbish, so when I pulled him up I used that to gain access and looked at his friends and his friends pictures.  He later changed this, but started posting pictures of his room on various friends of his place who seemed eager to let everyone know he was a great friend of young people.  He is really good with computers, it seems, but is getting old.  Have not bothered with him in awhile.  jackb

[Tamikosmom]

I am beginning to get excited anticipating the next four days.  Cousin and wife rom Alberta are arriving tomorrow and staying until Tuesday.  Good Friday service, Easter Sunrise service and Sunday brunch are where it is at.  All three grown kids/spouses/grandkids are celebrating Easter Sunday at the respective inlaws (I hate sharing. LOL) and then .... everybody is coming over on Easter Monday (statutory holiday) for a Turkey dinner and ... of course ... Papa will do the Easter Bunny thing.  LOL

Monkeys ... have a nice Easter.

Janet
9:50 PM

[jackb]

Wonder if the C. Vandenberg is kin to Martin Van den burg now living in Thiland.  He was on the BOD of some relevant organizations up until about the NH time.  It has been awhile since I fooled with that.  How I got wind of this man is he kept posting his room pics on the I-net in Tickle web site where some of the perps were put down as friends (i.e)  Depak Kalpoe as King of Bling, maybe friends of friends.Anyway I got to enhancing his room photos and lo and behold (for effect) there was what appeared to be a statue of a girl bound and tied to what looked like a ship mast or something with NH clothing on.  I kept finding out stuff on this Martin Van den Berg or burg, whatever and it seems he is into young teens, computers and was keeping a running diary of sorts on the case.  Very pro Vandersloot.  I have not been, as I said messing with this in months.  Also, this picture, is very strange after being enhanced, the ones of his room.  There are various computer and picture taking equipment, etc. in it.  He is in his 50s or so.  Got married, he says here while back to a very young woman.  Has a collection of serial killer books in his room picture and had pictures of Jug and Beth on tv.  He is a strange bird and is connected somehow to all of this.  I may have given the pic to Klass, if not I will if she wants it to post.  I am unable to figure out why he had this.  It was almost unseen on the floor as a statue and a doll house, but the fabric caught my eye and I started resizing and enhancing it.   Jackb  (now you all know why I am nuts.)   

So you noticed him after Natalee was missing, do I understand correctly?  Just curious because I would be more suspicious of him if he'd had them listed as friends before.  How much could you tell about the girl, could you see her face, or was it just the clothes that connected her to Natalee.  I've seen some pretty "out there" things on the internet since this case started.

 

Yes, of course, I was chasing down friends of the perps and came across him and he seemed to want to keep showing off his room and cameras and computers.  I got curious and started really looking close at the room.  I came across some interesting stuff, as I said.  He did use to live in Aruba and was on some BOD of some organization or another there.  He and his history are no longer available during the o5 year.  I have all this.  It is on outside storage.    j/b

[texasmom]

I am beginning to get excited anticipating the next four days.  Cousin and wife rom Alberta are arriving tomorrow and staying until Tuesday.  Good Friday service, Easter Sunrise service and Sunday brunch are where it is at.  All three grown kids/spouses/grandkids are celebrating Easter Sunday at the respective inlaws (I hate sharing. LOL) and then .... everybody is coming over on Easter Monday (statutory holiday) for a Turkey dinner and ... of course ... Papa will do the Easter Bunny thing.  LOL

Monkeys ... have a nice Easter.

Janet
9:50 PM

You too, Janet; and thanks for the post earlier today.  I loved it!  It sounds like you are going to have a wonderful holiday.

[cubbeegirl]

Wonder if the C. Vandenberg is kin to Martin Van den burg now living in Thiland.  He was on the BOD of some relevant organizations up until about the NH time.  It has been awhile since I fooled with that.  How I got wind of this man is he kept posting his room pics on the I-net in Tickle web site where some of the perps were put down as friends (i.e)  Depak Kalpoe as King of Bling, maybe friends of friends.Anyway I got to enhancing his room photos and lo and behold (for effect) there was what appeared to be a statue of a girl bound and tied to what looked like a ship mast or something with NH clothing on.  I kept finding out stuff on this Martin Van den Berg or burg, whatever and it seems he is into young teens, computers and was keeping a running diary of sorts on the case.  Very pro Vandersloot.  I have not been, as I said messing with this in months.  Also, this picture, is very strange after being enhanced, the ones of his room.  There are various computer and picture taking equipment, etc. in it.  He is in his 50s or so.  Got married, he says here while back to a very young woman.  Has a collection of serial killer books in his room picture and had pictures of Jug and Beth on tv.  He is a strange bird and is connected somehow to all of this.  I may have given the pic to Klass, if not I will if she wants it to post.  I am unable to figure out why he had this.  It was almost unseen on the floor as a statue and a doll house, but the fabric caught my eye and I started resizing and enhancing it.   Jackb  (now you all know why I am nuts.)   

So you noticed him after Natalee was missing, do I understand correctly?  Just curious because I would be more suspicious of him if he'd had them listed as friends before.  How much could you tell about the girl, could you see her face, or was it just the clothes that connected her to Natalee.  I've seen some pretty "out there" things on the internet since this case started.

 

Yes, of course, I was chasing down friends of the perps and came across him and he seemed to want to keep showing off his room and cameras and computers.  I got curious and started really looking close at the room.  I came across some interesting stuff, as I said.  He did use to live in Aruba and was on some BOD of some organization or another there.  He and his history are no longer available during the o5 year.  I have all this.  It is on outside storage.    j/b

Jack, I remember sitting here late into the night discussing creepy Marten, I also remember the screen with Beth and Dave on it(or was it Jug)?He is a really creepy person. I remember one of those pictures on his site looked like a girl was rolled up in a blanket or something like that on his bed... I use to have all that saved, but lost it when my puter went bye bye....

[Observer]

Good Friday everyone! 

I remember Martin the Dutchman living in Thailand very well, with his weird,fake girls connected to Natalee on her fake myspace site. I also remember analyzing those photos  and I believe we determined he photoshopped something lying in his bed. Was it a statue? I don't know really what to say about the guy,except he's a creepy old pervert that seduces young girls online by telling stories. He also likes to contact young Aruban girls and Married a 20 something Thai girl and I would speculate he is into making Porn.

[texasmom]

Thanks Jack!  I remember a lot of discussion early in the case about an older man named Martin, seems like he was connected to Mr. Pink somehow IIRC.  Don't know if it's connected to what you're describing, just happened to think of it. 

[texasmom]

  
Yes, I think I may be remembering the same guy that cubbeegirl and ******* described. 

  he was a "sick" individual imo

Good Friday to you too, *******!

[downloadingdaddy]

Wasn't there some websites of Jorans that were taken down in the early days 0f the case? Well, There is an article on the front page of yahoo that outlines how to find websites that have been gone for years. If there is any monkey here that knows what websites to look for and wants to give it a try heres the url http://tinyurl.com/36fafu

[Observer]

That would be something if he was connected to Mr.Pink!  He is a sick puppy and definetly up to no good,but most old white men living in Thailand are like that I remember he ran a blog for meeting people in Thailand,ran some sort of pool league or place and had mutilpe computers and monitors set up running videos and graphics. He also seemed very interested in Natalee Holloway and did so right in the beginning. Every blog talked about him even the dutch forums,but it appears his tickle site is closed and so is meetingthaipeople.com. Some people thought he was shango 

[downloadingdaddy]

Wasn't there some websites of Jorans that were taken down in the early days 0f the case? Well, There is an article on the front page of yahoo that outlines how to find websites that have been gone for years. If there is any monkey here that knows what websites to look for and wants to give it a try heres the url http://tinyurl.com/36fafu

Klass, could you pass this on to whoever around here knows the most about the documents and websites and such.?

[Observer]

Wasn't there some websites of Jorans that were taken down in the early days 0f the case? Well, There is an article on the front page of yahoo that outlines how to find websites that have been gone for years. If there is any monkey here that knows what websites to look for and wants to give it a try heres the url http://tinyurl.com/36fafu

Thats good info DL I used the wayback time machine to get a few screens of Mr.Pinks sites that he took down in 2005. I think Joran mostly had tickle sites and myspace type pages  that were taken down after his arrest.

[texasmom]

That would be something if he was connected to Mr.Pink!  He is a sick puppy and definetly up to no good,but most old white men living in Thailand are like that I remember he ran a blog for meeting people in Thailand,ran some sort of pool league or place and had mutilpe computers and monitors set up running videos and graphics. He also seemed very interested in Natalee Holloway and did so right in the beginning. Every blog talked about him even the dutch forums,but it appears his tickle site is closed and so is meetingthaipeople.com. Some people thought he was shango 

I'm not sure about the Mr. Pink connection at all, just one of the first things that I thought of when I thought of the "martin" being discussed long ago.  It could be that discussions "tried" to connect him.  I had some info saved from it a long time ago, but all of that went with my hard drive crash.  I'm sure others know a lot more about him than I do.

[finngirl]

there were two sets of friends on a person's tickle site

1. a random/rotating/computer generated set
which had nothing in common w/ site owner

2. a set of people invited as friends by site owner

Marten was invited friend of the majors in this case ...
and they were invited friends of Marten

it remained that way in the very earliest weeks/summer '05
and then, as if by receipt of memo, they all deleted each other

strangest Marten tickle site photos:

1. cropped photo/eyes only/caption: my eyes in june 2005

he was a decent looking/well groomed older man ...
nice eyes when he smiled

the "my eyes" photo was creepy looking,
as if he was coming off a binge or being amped/tweeked

2. Dave/Robin on tv screen ...
Marten's bed pulled away from wall ...
foot of bed placed directly underneath tv screen

his home appeared to be neat/nicely decorated ...
seemed odd to move bed out of position for photo

that took effort and meant ... something ... ?

[Silverfox]

A little over an hour ago This ScaredMonkeys forum was hijacked while attempting to access this 744 thread.  I was able to do a screen shot and trace the active link to www.akratz.com

Then I ran a whois search on Akratz and guess what?  It originates in the Netherlands!

Additionally it appears that the dot com site is used for hijacking and website attacks based on what I was able to see from doing google and askme prelim searches...

If this is an attack on scared monkeys then people should be sure to clear their caches, run your spyware and virus programs and be very careful of accessing sites requiring user names and passwords as you might have been phished or worse...

Here is what I captured... The text insert in red is placed there to help the security folks at scared monkeys in accessing your logs to try to see if you can discover any security breaches in your software.  The screen catch in the browser window (I use firefox) indicates that the scaredmonkeys metadata is intact -- but that the html was substituted... I tried to immediately read the source code of the page but was denied access.  a few moments later I was able to access the source code of the page as apparently the hacker might have detected he/she was being checked out and disconnected.  Please note that my date and time are Philippine time as we are a day ahead of you.

The fact this originates from the Netherlands is very very suspect...

[Peaches]

Klaas and *******

On the "Dutch" thread, I think johan thinks the photoshopped VDS house picture is the real one and the real picture has "new" houses built.  I tried to explain but I think someone needs to post "the real" picture and the possible date of the shopped one.  Geesh....I thought Shango was hard.....I might just have to travel to the Netherlands to try and practice my new "almost" language, when this is over.   

You might as well go ahead and order that Rosetta Stone program now.  It appears the need is not going away.

[Lala'sMom]

Since most all of the monkeys are still asleep...I will attempt to clarify the criteria for being the 5th suspect.  I think this is about the  "umpteenth" time I have done this. (That is a slight Simian reference there, just in case some of you don't read it often). LOL

In order to be the 5th suspect you have to meet these criteria:

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house.
2. He was the HOST of this party.
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "party goers".
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. He met her in the casino.
6. The alibi worked for him.
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 4:56 pm
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:00 pm
The 5th suspect was the boyfriend from earlier in the week.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:09 pm
A scorned lover needs a motive? Drives some people to some crazy deeds.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:13 pm
A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends. He couldn’t have done it. Sometimes friends will cover for each other.


Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week. After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him.
Simian: This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy.
First guy never denies the affair. He knows they know he was with her. However, he has an airtight alibi. Some friends say they were at home with him. Until the morning.
How can this ever be solved?

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:55 pm
He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 6:01 pm
The first guy she met has all the motive. The second guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.



Now, knowing this who fits here?  Well, several people do actually.  This is why it's so hard to pin this down.  Let's first look at the most recent subject...GVC.

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house. I have no evidence that he was at his home on the night in question with some friends over. Remember, it was a simple party...at his house.
2. He was the HOST of this party. If he had a party, I would assume he was the host, right?
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left. We would need to know who was there...we have no idea about GVC.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "party goers".
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. He met her in the casino. This seems to be true.  As far as I can tell he did indeed have contact with Natalee before the night in question.  He also had contact with her at CnC. This is one of the few things that actually fits what Simian described.
6. The alibi worked for him. It worked for about a year until they brought him back in the spotlight. He wasn't even on the radar with us.
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. Don't know this for sure, since Joran trolled the beaches looking for victims.


Now, let's look at Steve Croes...

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house. I think Croes was out and about that night. He was supposed to be on the Tatoo, but was seen at CnC's at one point. 
2. He was the HOST of this party. Never heard he had a party at his house.
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "party goers".
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. He met her in the casino. I have never seen where Steve Croes gambled regularly at all. Could have missed it.
6. The alibi worked for him. Steve Croes was PROVIDING an alibi for the Kalpoes and Joran.  If he had to provide his own alibi, would they not have been his alibi then?
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. Have never seen anything to establish this.


On to LVR:

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house. Rumors of a party at his place. Actually, I think it was established that he did have a party of some kind that night.
2. He was the HOST of this party. They called it his rave...so I am guessing he was host.
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left. As I understand it...Max Arends was one of his alibis. Also, something about his girlfriend and her providing an alibi for him also.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "party goers". 
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. He met her in the casino. This has never been established.
6. The alibi worked for him. This is true. He was never on Jacobs radar IIRC.
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. Can't establish this connection either.


Now, let's try Paulus...

1. The 5th suspect was at a party of some kind at his house.
2. He was the HOST of this party. No idea about a party at the Sloots.  I thought he had kids asleep there?
3. The people at this party established his alibi for him saying he never left.
4. The people that provided the alibi are the "party goers". Rumors that Ben King was staying there, who knows?
5. He has some contact with Natalee a few days before. He met her in the casino. This would have to be on security footage most likely if true...nothing I have ever seen tells me he met Natalee in the casino before that night at the blackjack table...but this is a real possibility.  I still contend she did not know Joran was his son until she was seated at that table that very night.
6. The alibi worked for him. He was released...so I wonder who provided his alibi or did he even need one. 
7. He met Natalee first before Joran did. I don't think Paulus was out looking for young girls, so he had to meet her somewhere...wonder where that could have been and what day?


As you can see...several people fit parts of the whole.  I am thinking maybe we still haven't found the right person.  It has been interesting to see how some of us have tried to make things fit.  Any number of people will work here in various ways. You can say the boyfriend is simply a way of saying a male acquaintance that seemed interested or you can turn the tables and say it was Guido jealous of Joran being with a girl. I have discussed the possibility of Paulus and another woman also as providing  the alibi and being at his house when Joran called him.  Remember, Simian refers to the 5th as maybe leaving this party and the party goers looked the other way.  Many, possible combinations...only one person fits all of them...so who is it?  Welcome to my world!